Will Dana White Indirectly Affect Interest in Josh Koscheck vs. Georges St. Pierre Showdown?
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 4:25 PM EDT
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Following Josh Koscheck's recent victory over Paul Daley at UFC 113 in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, Koscheck sent a message to the fans. That message, in summary form, was that Koscheck didn't care what a few thousands mixed martial arts fans in the Great White North thought about his performance or who he was as a fighter. In fact, he took a proverbial "crap" on one of Montreal's most coveted possessions during the month of May, a Montreal Canadiens hockey team embroiled in a "Cinderella" run at the Stanley Cup, as well as predicting he would defeat current UFC welterweight champion Georges St. Pierre.
The reaction among fans not in Montreal was fairly predictable. "That's just Koscheck being Koscheck", or "He's creating the perfect heel persona, and it'll sell to the fans.", or "He's just a <insert profanity>". Dana White's response fell on the latter of those statements as he was quoted by Kevin Iole of Yahoo! Sports as not exactly being a fan:
"I’m no Josh Koscheck fan," White said Tuesday. "Personally, I think he’s [expletive]. We actually don’t get along very well."
White also appeared on The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani of MMAFighting.com recently, and he expressed a few more attributes that he dislikes about Koscheck (transcribed by MMAHits.com):
"It’s not like me and Koscheck are buddies. Don’t think that Koscheck came out of The Ultimate Fighter and we’re buddies and I’m looking out for Koscheck. I think Koscheck is as much of a dick as anyone else does. We have no beef. It’s — he’s not a team player. His personality — you’re never going get along with Koscheck and hang out and be good buddies with him. Just can’t. He’s not that type of guy. It’s not a bad thing. It’s who he decides to be. It doesn’t mean I can’t do business with him. But I’ll tell you this, I respect Koscheck as a fighter. I think that he’s getting better and better every time he fights. He goes out there and goes after it."
The Las Vegas Review-Journal was able to get a rebuttal from Josh Koscheck, although it was much more reserved that we'd expect from Koscheck:
"Dana White doesn't like me, apparently. That's what he says. I'm not a team player. I don't understand how he can say that. To go on record and say that, I think that's a bunch of (expletive)," Koscheck said. "I'm the type of fighter that steps up and fights anybody, anytime, anyplace. I've taken short-notice fights for him. I always do whatever I'm asked. "I'm going to prove I'm a team player by winning the show and the welterweight title." "I always use this analogy because I respect Dennis Rodman and what he did. He was one of the best rebounders in the NBA, but he didn't really get noticed until he started acting like a crazy man," Koscheck said. "At the end of the day, I've got to do things for myself and my business to make money so I don't have to work. It's not like we're getting paid $50 million or $60 million a fight like (Floyd) Mayweather."
Strangely, I have to side with Koscheck here. Koscheck stepped in on two weeks' notice to battle a powerful striker in Thiago Alves, a fight in which Alves gained a title shot in victory. He turned around and fought less than two months later on the UFC: Fight for the Troops card in which he completely destroyed Yoshiyuki Yoshida with a pair of devastating overhands. Another two months, another fight... losing in somewhat controversial stoppage to Paulo Thiago at UFC 95. He also similarly went on a short stint of fights as he beat both Frank Trigg and Anthony Johnson within a two month time span in September and November of 2009.
The most interesting part about Koscheck today is that he's changed from an one-dimensional wrestler to a fighter who has the potential to produce highlight reel knockouts. My own appeal to Koscheck started in the lead-up to UFC 82 in which he was scheduled to fight Dustin Hazelett. Much more reserved, Koscheck chose to let actions speak louder than his words. And the trend has seemed to continue with success.
Dana White's public feud with Tito Ortiz years ago is probably much more of game changer in terms of creating some drama around a fight indirectly, but White's recent comments certainly add extra motivation for Koscheck. Not only are the odds-makers and fans against him in believing he can take out Georges St. Pierre, but the UFC's own president believes Koscheck isn't a team player. Perhaps those comments lie in the belief he should fight his own teammates at the request of the UFC?
As Jake Rossen pointed out via ESPN MMA's blog, perhaps these comments are a way in which White is trying to create another layer of drama during the taping of The Ultimate Fighter season 12. The small disagreement in how Koscheck has acted with the promotion could certainly explode in front of the cameras, potentially bringing fans to the side of Koscheck or St. Pierre indirectly.
I suppose we'll find out when the next season airs, but I can't help but wonder if White is putting himself into the spotlight to add more to this fight. It certainly is a smart idea in terms of ratings, but I imagine there will be some backlash from the media. After all, there is a lot of coverage that points out the fact that the fighters should be first and foremost, not the president of the promotion. I can't exactly blame White if it adds to his bottom line though.
I doubt we'll see a feud between Koscheck and White explode in to full on hatred for one another, but I imagine if something does happen during the taping -- the lead-up to St. Pierre vs. Koscheck could be very appealing to all fans. Fans will more than likely already be interested, but anyone who has written off St. Pierre as a "lay n' prayer" or Koscheck as a jerk will still tune in to either see St. Pierre defeated or Koscheck defeated. It's the Tito Ortiz school of marketing yourself at its finest.
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the fraggle can fight
I think he is gonna give Georgey a run for his money.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Jun 3, 2010 4:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Agreed.
I think skill-wise, phenomenal match-up.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Koscheck/White thing is being overly hyped. He has praised Koscheck as a fighter and has, in the past, sung his praises for stepping up and taking any and all fights. Ideally, White would not have sworn, but that is White. He made a similar comment last year after Josh stepped up and replaced Sanchez in a fight.
Personally, I am not a fan. It started with his disgraceful behavior after the Goulet fight, a fight that saw him land several blows to the back of the him and continued through the Daley fight.
I do respect his skills, though I will say this about his striking: He has power, but is sloppy as hell. Until he improves on his form and does better with combos, most should be able to avoid damage.
As far as this fight goes, while Josh has said he now knows what to expect from GSP, does anyone else agree that GSP’s ground game has improved since that first bout? Not just his wrestling, but his subs as well.
Another point to think about: First time around, Josh had a size advantage. Since then GSP has added another 7 or 8 pounds and the two are about the same weight. Will that play into it?
Unless he catches GSP with a bomb, I don’t see Josh winning. GSP’s stand-up is better and I think his ground game is better. That said, I still think it could be a fun bout.
the key for Koscheck to win is not only to use his wrestling in reverse but to also mix in some takedowns, himself. This will not only help Kos win rounds but also make his striking more effective, just like GSP’s striking is so effective because of the threat of the takedown. Mark my words if Kos tries to simply strike and defend the takedown he will lose again.
First time around, they stood for a fair amount of time in the 3rd. Kos was swinging for the fences and could not land a punch. GSP avoided them and landed kick after kick. Kos was 8 of 38 in striking in that round.
GSP’s kicks alone topped that with 16 of 18.
Kos needs to tighten up his striking. If he comes in looking to land the bomb, GSP will pick his spots with strikes and kicks.
He's also got Rodman's hair
I agree with Kos in this case. Doesn’t change the fact that he comes off as a tool though.
This
is exactly the correlation that popped into my head. I don’t know if it’s planned or legit, but it sure as hell seems like a smart play.
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I agree.
GSP is the ultimate good guy and he is making Kos out to be the ultimate bad guy.
That will help to sell the fight.
We will learn a lot about Kos through the ultimate fighter. I know a lot of his talk is him playing it up for the cameras, but people from his own camp have called him difficult.
One way or another it will be Kosceck’s personality that does a lot to sell thids fight. Beetween Kos and his drama and the potential of GSP picking up a few more female fans throughout the season, the PPV should do pretty well.
Perhaps on the poster...
they will dress GSP as Batman and Koscheck as the Joker?
Koscheck’s face kinda looks like the Joker, he just needs the makeup.
This is absolutely a marketing ploy....
And Im calling it now…. KOS by Unanimous decision.
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I did hear it here first.
For good reason.
He doesn’t have the stand up and he doesn’t have the wrestling.
Hey, anything can happen. With a little help from the judges, Edgar beat Penn. But I’m curious how you would ever think Kos would win by UD. Knockout? Maybe. But I just don’t see a UD in a 5 round fight happening.
Kos doesn't have the wrestling??
huh?
by soxrule!35 on Jun 3, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not to beat GSP. His wrestling is top notch, but Georges in on a whole nother level.
by sadface on Jun 3, 2010 6:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure. I just don’t see Koscheck creating problems for this GSP when he was unable to do much last time. Josh has improved, but he still has the same holes in his game. And he won’t be bigger or stronger than George, so I don’t see the takedowns working for Josh. But you never know until they square off.
by sadface on Jun 3, 2010 7:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Georges may have the better wrestling, but I don’t think the last fight is entirely indicative of that. GSP really caught Koscheck off guard with his wrestling, and Kos wasn’t ready for it. He won’t be surprised this time.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
I know Josh will expect it to be taken down this time. But it doesn’t mean he can stop it. Fitch couldn’t, BJ couldn’t.
I really want to see George in a real battle. I hope Josh can be that guy, but I just can’t see how.
by sadface on Jun 3, 2010 9:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Koscheck is a much better wrestler than Fitch or BJ man.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Heard people question Koscheck's ability to coach.
The guy was an undefeated national champion wrestler in college and a four time All American. He even spent a little time coaching wrestling.
He’s got the wrestling chops and his conditioning is always fantastic, so I think he has something to offer as a coach other than taking shots at GSP.
Plus he’ll have the guys from AKA with him.
I do agree that the guys on TUF will get good coaching from the AKA staff.
But Koscheck being a great athlete doesn’t necessarily make him a great coach
Kos beating GSP would be the best thing for the division
b/c it would spice things up quite nicely.
by fozo on Jun 3, 2010 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Because its not a good thing. People can defend the Hardy fight all day, and justifiably so, but a few more fights like those and I’m going to get ANTSY!
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jun 3, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dana being Dana?
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
by 49er16 on Jun 3, 2010 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Interesting question posed here. I’ll reserve making a conclusion until I see if Dana goes out of his way to create more drama with Kos as taping has started, and as the season of TUF approaches in Sept.
On a sidenote, this season may be one for fans who want to see the training aspect of TUF. GSP and Kos likely won’t create the heat normally seen from the coaches. And each guy is bringing in an incredible staff of coaches.
TUF 12 contestants are going to be very fortunate to be coached by all the great coaches on this season.
I agree and disagree.
In my opinion he is dick. I was actually starting to like him more but then in my opinion again he faked the eye poke at 104 and then faked the knee at 113.
But how Dana White can say he’s not a team player is beyond me. Sure he wont fight his teamates but then again neither will Black House or Jackson’s and I dont here you calling Rashad Evans or Junior Dos Santos not team players.
This guy has stepped up for you on numerous occassions and yes where he has said he wants to fight as much as possible taking a fight against Thiago Alves on 2 weeks notice deserves a lot of credit. I dont hear him turning down fights (I guess you can argue he turned down Fitch but that’s it).
Either White is just mouthin off, or he is talking about the whole situation at AKA. But yeah, he isn’t and hasn’t called out any other camp for doing the same shit.
by sadface on Jun 3, 2010 6:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree it’s strange Dane White talking shit about Kos in this way.. interesting theory that it could have something to do with the upcoming TUF season, hadn’t thought of that. Anyway it’s a dick move by Dana, he shouldn’t talk that way about his fighter for no reason. Sure Kos is a jerk, but as pointed out he’s taken several fights on short notice, something Dana White should be thankful for. I don’t understand where “not a team player” comes from.
I don’t like Kos as a person either, but he usually puts up a good fight (well, except against Daley).
By feuding with Koscheck and then creating a storyline of how Koscheck is a dick during the taping, it could indirectly horde fans on the side of GSP.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Because GSP needs more fans? Or because we need more reasons to hate Kos? I don’t understand.
by sadface on Jun 3, 2010 6:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’ll just create more hype around the event.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Kos has always been very opinionated but he also fights as often as he can and comes back for more. He may not be a “team Player” but he isn’t really going against the “team” here either and he does take the fights they book. There is nothing wrong with a guy voicing strong opinions, hell in this case it will probably make for some real good reality tv. White’s silly made up feud is just icing on the top for that.
Two things to take away from this:
1) Dana likes being the UFC’s Vince McMahon. He will insert himself into the drama for hype.
2) Dana is still pissy at AKA fighters over their reluctance to fork over lifetime image rights, and is unlikely to do any favors for them. Swick being the possible exclusion.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Agreed with number 1
He’s still a promoter and he will promote any angle of a fight to garner viewers.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
In the first fight, Koscheck was actually able to get out from under GSP and put him on his back for a good bit of the first round. GSP dominated from there on out, but a thing to remember is that Koscheck was very vocal about not being concerned for St. Pierre’s wrestling. He trained striking for a vast majority of that camp in trying to make gains on GSP’s vastly superior standup game.
I’ll still favor GSP, but with the right kind of camp Koscheck can make this a damned interesting fight.
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
I remember Koscheck stating in more recent memory that he was surprised by his wrestling ability, so I don’t think he’ll make the same mistake twice. Should be very interesting.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It will be really interesting...
Koscheck is a great and well credentialled wrestler. I am curious to see how much of that fight was GSP catching him off gaurd and how much was GSPdeveloping into something like a world class wrestler…
I think we know by now that GSP can take people down in MMA like almost no other. Even after Kos was given a rude awakening at UFC 74 that he had to work more on his wrestling, he didn’t take Alves down once at UFC 90. GSP got 10 TDs (IIRC) in 5 rounds against Alves.
Kos is a great wrestler and super explosive, but GSP said he would outwrestle Kos before the fight, Kos scoffed at it, and then got outwrestled. He was surprised by GSP’s skill, not that GSP would try to wrestle. JMO
by Hardcharger on Jun 3, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
"Strangely", your going to side against Dana White?
This site has more Anti-Dana White rhetoric then any.
I mean I agree with you in this case, I don’t see why he’s calling down Koscheck, but it’s the default BE stance to be anti Dana.
Shogun lost a close decision! Everyone get crazy!
More like… “Strangely” as in most things Koscheck states are controversial and people don’t agree with. In this case, I do agree. And generally, I don’t agree but see Koscheck’s heel persona coming through.
Your option to call out “anti-Dana” rhetoric is laughable as I don’t side with anyone. I simply write what interests me.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
it’s the default BE stance to be anti Dana
Oddly enough, it seems like the default Comment Section stance is to be pro-Dana
….there is balance to the Force…
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 3, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
gsp interview from ufc 114, talks koscheck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIq-7nEf3xY
"Justice is the whim of a judge, check his chest density
It leaves much room for error, and the rest left to destiny."
-Sage Francis
Another reason Dana might hate Kos is because he had to fire Daly. I’m sure Dana really wanted Daly in the UFC, but had no choice but to get rid of him, especially with the Ontario sanctioning body watching closely. I’m not saying that is anyone’s fault other than Daly, but I could definitely see Dana holding a grudge against Koscheck for pushing Daly to the breaking point after Koscheck faked an injury from the knee strike that didn’t land and the pointless trash talk at the end of the fight. It’s one thing to talk some trash in front of the cameras to help the fight sell, but what is Kos’ accomplishing by doing it in Daly’s ear at the end of a fight he dominated, other than to get his douche-nozzle badge?
That on top of being from AKA, not fighting Fitch and the heel rant in Montreal, there’s a pretty good list of things to draw theories from.
This whole situation is very strange to me…..
One the one hand as everyone has said… it could be just Dana trying to built conflict for the upcoming season of TUF.
On the other hand…. could this just be Dana being his usual dick self? Could the whole lack of a team player comment be some hidden jab for the fact those AKA fights won’t face one another, and are not being team players under the UFC system?
I dunno…..
I just hope we don’t have to sit through another 24/7 show with GSP. The one with GSP & Penn was alright because Penn did all the talking, but the Hardy show basically proved GSP gives the same 10 canned answers depending on the question. At this point, I’d prefer some new blood … perhaps Carwin vs Lesnar? :drools:
It’s a long way off so no need to even be discussing it but whatevs ..
As for the GSP vs Koscheck fight. I agree with the sentiment that it’s being sold as the ultimate hero vs the ultimate villian. The fight we should be seeing is GSP vs Anderson, instead we get to see GSP out wrestle Koscheck for 5 rounds and Silva out strike Sonnen for 2 rounds. I hope that fight does happen eventually.
The funny thing about all of these articles and all of our comments going back to the previous articles about this is that everybody assumes we know every detail of their relationship. We have no idea all that has gone on behind the scenes; maybe there are more issues than the few examples we keep arguing about. I know as a former employer of a lot of people, there were plenty of issues with them that only me and that employee knew about and they put on a difference face with everyone else.
(Although I’m sure part of it is Dana’s issue with him not fighting team mates. Which I think that once you get into the top ten, fighters need to realize that might happen when they are all trying to be the champ)
“This isn’t football or basketball. You’re not part of a team.” – Dana White 3/4/2009
“He [Koscheck] is not a team player” – Dana White 5/24/2010
I’m not sure Koscheck can win here.
by PapaBumpants on Jun 3, 2010 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
A slightly different take
Dana White is, first and foremost, UFC’s head promoter. He’s faced with a TUF season with Kos and GSP.
Now, he could let this play out with a minimum of interference, and he may get the conclusion of the Henderson – Bisping encounter, where the strong silent hero demolishes the mouthy upstart.
But maybe Dana’s worried, and rightly so, I’d say, that GSP’s personality just isn’t going to draw people to the show. His fighting? Absolutely. But he won’t be fighting on the show, he will be coaching. And Dana could be faced with, instead of Rampage-Rashad, a situation of Mr. Rogers – Rashad.
GSP isn’t going to trash talk Kos, at least not with anything memorable. He most likely isn’t even going to show he’s angry. He’s going to smile, speak in his French-Canadian accent about how disappointed he is that Kos is making this personal, then do his best to beat Kos on the PPV.
So maybe, just maybe, Dana is setting himself up to be Kos’ foil and object of ire for the next season of TUF. Dana sees himself as the verbal equal, if not superior, of Kos. GSP may well end up as serving as Dana’s fighting surrogate this next season of TUF, letting Dana do they heavy lifting in the trash talking department.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
If he truly feels that way, he shouldn't waste time putting GSP on TUF.
Neither GSP, or Koscheck, for that matter, need this show to generate heat, noise, whatever. He should be well aware that GSP is a better fighter than talker so I really don’t know what he’s expecting on the show.
I think it was stopped a tad early
But the way Kos went down I feel that Thiago would’ve just assaulted him going to the ground.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
Fighter safety
When a fighter is knocked out from a punch, but comes to when his head hits the canvas MUST be a stoppage. Concussions cause the most damage when the brain hasn’t fully healed from the last concussion. This is why the NFL now doesn’t allow concussed players back into the game.
Sorry tough guys, concussed is concussed, you’ll earn more by being able to fighter longer and be healthier.
Tito 1.0 is broken, we need Tito 2.0.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
Always need someone to hate.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
Dana always needs someone to hate.
-He used to hate Tito
-Then he jumped onto hating the Affliction guys
-He can’t hate on Coker because he looks like a sad puppy
-He tried hating team Sherdog, but it’s kink of pathetic when the head of a billion dollar organization is in a spat with a blogger who smells like cheese
-Hating a fighter is a good way to drive PPV sales.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
As much as I hate Kos, I agree with his that the "not a team player" comment was way off the mark.
The only UFC fighter who is more of a team player than Koscheck would be Rich Franklin.
Or Matt Hughes. Randy too before his retirement.. and since his return.
by sadface on Jun 3, 2010 9:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How
does everything Dana White say become an article here with the conclusion that Dana is a doushe? Anyone ever work with someone that did their job extremely well, mostly kept to themselves, didn’t cause problems, but when you saw them out of the office they were always playing mailbox baseball? You dislike the person, but when you are required to be around them, there isn’t an issue so you just leave it @ I don’t care for you but I can work with you. That is all these two are saying.
Sure Dana has his angle that all of Bob Cook’s fighter’s aren"t “team guys” and sure there is some residue of the lifetime image rights thing being that Dana called out Cook and now “Crazy” is on-set with Kos. So yeah, Kos does little instigator type shit to push Dana’s buttons. He is one of the few Zuffa employees that gets away with it and when it comes down to it even Dana will admit while personally irritating, the dude is an excellent employee.
The whole DW is being a doushe in trying to angle himself into to the promotion bit is so tired. For as much as folks like to focus on DW’s impulsive style and how it can get him into trouble, why not recognize the maturity and level-headedness it takes to constantly forge successful working relationships with individuals your personal can’t stand? Seems like a damn fine quality to have in business. But hey I could be wrong, maybe he’s simply an ego maniac angling for more camera time, figuring he plays a better foil to Kos than GSP.
More than one angle guys, try exploring them.
In what way did this article angle at Dana being a “doushe” as you so inaccurately spell it?
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
In fact, did you even read the article? We could totally do without commenters like you.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
So Dana's supposed to be best friends with all these guys?
I’m typically not a Dana apologist, but isn’t it unreasonable to expect him to act like like he’s close personally to all his fighters? I appreciate him being candid about his opinion of Kos personally, while still giving him his due for his fighting ability.
Do we really want to hear sales propaganda 100% of the time from this man?
Excuse the poor spelling, got a D in that, wanna do some calculus, I remember that shit better.
I used douche as a generic term for a someone constantly acting in a manner feel the need to disapprove of, which is essentially the only side of DW this site tends to focus on. I just see a totally different angle that could have been reported here and that is DW’s history of being able to personally despise his employees, but finds a way to forge a successful business relationships. Instead everything is a WWE DW is Vince parallels.
Just asking for variety. I read the articles, completely. I don’t need to be insulted for upping the sites hits and adding to the ad revenues. I used to read 5oz but got sick of Caplan’s constant bias reporting. I like BE a lot more when I’m not constantly reminded how mad you all are that Zuffa gives recognize you as journalists. I get it. Just get over it once in a while and report a new angle.
Obviously, you didn’t read the article. The piece was to ask the question, which I laid out analysis. Never did I actually shit on Dana’s rant about Koscheck, but offered a view that it could indirectly help the hype around a specific fight.
I don’t understand the entire diatribe above at all.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry, no recognition as journalists. Not saying you shouldn’t be recognized, but hell get past it. Its like Fox News claiming to be “fair and balanced”
And… once again, you rear your ugly opinion. I couldn’t care less if I’m monikered as a “journalist”. I’m an op/ed writer who also dabbles in fight analysis and breakdowns. I don’t report news, nor do I break stories. I don’t care about the “journalist” tag.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I rear my ugly opinion, fine. All I did was point out yours and mentioned the correlation between your ugly opinion and similar independent ugly opinions from other authors here. I know you all are independent, but doesn’t prevent any form of group think.
If opinions are like assholes, everyone has them and they all stink, the I concur with your premise that my opinion was ugly. But it is no more, and no less, ugly opinions offered by numerous authors and commentators on this site.
Its the attitude that my opinion is any uglier than yours that turns off the reader. If you want the right to air your opinion, you don’t have the right to go ad hominem claiming multiple times I hadn’t bothered to read the article. Get over yourself.
My point is as valid as yours. Dish it fine, but learn to take it some.
And fair point on the “journalist” tab as it pertains to yourself, personally I consider you a high grade blogger, so you are correct in that my aim was off. My apologies. But I’m not off-base is claiming there is a strong overtone of BE bias against a Zuffa media policy which directly inhibits BE’s objectives. And the frustration with that if valid, but when it comes across so often, articles like this become guilty by association. I know you’re independent and all, but you do publish your opinions under the the BE banner, so your articles will automatically be compared to its closest peer group here on the site. Not a terrible thing as I say, its not like the authors aren’t talented.
All I was suggesting was digging a little deeper and perhaps covering some new ground or a new angle. Maybe “standard” is the wrong word, just trying to raise the level of discourse.
I rear my ugly opinion, fine. All I did was point out yours and mentioned the correlation between your ugly opinion and similar independent ugly opinions from other authors here. I know you all are independent, but doesn’t prevent any form of group think.
Actually, it does prevent it because it doesn’t happen. I don’t actually email ideas to other writers on the site and formulate an opinion with them.
Its the attitude that my opinion is any uglier than yours that turns off the reader. If you want the right to air your opinion, you don’t have the right to go ad hominem claiming multiple times I hadn’t bothered to read the article. Get over yourself.
You didn’t read the article… because if you had, you’d have read the fact that there was no negativity toward Dana White in this context. In fact, it was merely pointing out the fact that his remarks may be a way in which he would add an element of hype to the fight.
My point is as valid as yours. Dish it fine, but learn to take it some.
What point? What exactly is your point? Because from what I’ve read, your point is based on the idea that there is negativity, which there isn’t.
And fair point on the "journalist" tab as it pertains to yourself, personally I consider you a high grade blogger, so you are correct in that my aim was off. My apologies. But I’m not off-base is claiming there is a strong overtone of BE bias against a Zuffa media policy which directly inhibits BE’s objectives. And the frustration with that if valid, but when it comes across so often, articles like this become guilty by association. I know you’re independent and all, but you do publish your opinions under the the BE banner, so your articles will automatically be compared to its closest peer group here on the site. Not a terrible thing as I say, its not like the authors aren’t talented.
If BloodyElbow’s opinions as a whole comes off as biased against Zuffa, okay then. I’m not going to argue how multiple opinions here adhere to a general theory of our bias. If that’s what you believe, so be it.
All I was suggesting was digging a little deeper and perhaps covering some new ground or a new angle. Maybe "standard" is the wrong word, just trying to raise the level of discourse.
To be perfectly honest, I haven’t read anything from any MMA media suggesting that White is potentially planting the seeds to add more hype to the fight. Maybe I looked over an article somewhere.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No, you explored one possible angle, or wrote it off as nothing. No exploration of an angle that paints DW in positive light.
Maybe ur getting the unfair rant because I held back yesterday on the DW is lying to the media bs yesterday. When I am told one day not to believe DW and that all who take him at his word are marks and morons, then all I see are articles going nuts over what DW said it just gets old.
To be fair, ur not as bad as perhaps my initial post came off, but more just that straw for me as a reader. I like the site, but a visit it less often now than 3 months ago because I’m sick of the same angle over and over. My interest in the sport isn’t as tied to WWE angles, so I get sick of the over used parallels. Not saying their aren’t valid, just asking for new analogies, angles, etc. Its not like the staff isn’t talented enough, just trying to raise the standard a little.
and REPLY FAIL as well
You’re on a roll.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
First and foremost, use the reply button. I can’t follow you without it.
Secondly, point out and post where I bathe White in a negative way in the context of hyping the fight.
Thirdly, when you read one article, and then another article in a different light, it gets old. Newsflash: This site isn’t written by one writer, nor does this website have an overall view that we try to portray to our readers. We are all individuals, and write accordingly.
You’re interest in the sport isn’t tied to WWE angles, but they exist. Just because I actually convey a point that highlights that existing angle, doesn’t mean it should be written off by anyone. It’s relevant.
Raise what standard? A standard in which you think I’m shitting on Dana White above?
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 3, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
" After all, there is a lot of coverage that points out the fact that the fighters should be first and foremost, not the president of the promotion."
This isn’t a dig? This isn’t painting comments in a light that focus on how DW is taking away the spotlight from his fighters?
Read your own comments with a little bit of subjectivity and then come after me.
The point is you come in and claim that all I am doing is spouting an ugly opinion and all I did was call the kettle black. Your opinion isn’t superior to mine or any other one, its an opinion. Its stinks, its ugly, and everyone has them. Yours don’t tell me mine ain’t legit as yours. I gave plenty of reasoning, you want to disagree, fine. But don’t tell me I didn’t read the damn article multiple times in order to paint me as being totally baseless. Look at the comments, I’m not the only one noticing the same trend.
GET OVER YOURSELF
You should probably delete your account and move off if you think that’s a “dig” on Dana White. It’s merely mentioning what a lot of media coverage has stated in the past.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Jun 4, 2010 6:49 AM EDT up reply actions
You should probably quit as a writer here as you have zero objectivity. You have zero tolerance for criticism. You have told me to leave your precious community in response to my comments making the same point others here. Your responses are ad hominem, the last refuge of the lazy debater. I am not alone in my opinion on this board, so grow up and accept that what you wrote perhaps didn’t come off as you had intended or that perhaps your rose colored “I have no negative reporting” glasses need to be taken off.
What are u 5 years old? Some one disagrees and you tell them to leave the playground. You have the mental make-up of a 6 year-old. But not to worry, after this I will simply not read or comment on a single article you post.
I really don’t see how this article is bashing Dana. Isn’t his job to hype fights. This article just says he’s hyping a fight.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
It is his job.. it just sucks that it has to be this way.
by sadface on Jun 3, 2010 9:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the guy has 17 UFC fights in five years
and NONE of them were for a title. I would say he’s been a team player.
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