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Early Reports Indicate 920,000 Pay Per View Orders for UFC 114

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Dave Meltzer reports (subscription required, and honestly I can't recommend it enough):

The earliest cable estimate is 925,000 buys, which would make it the fourth highest number in UFC history. Any estimate this early is a very rough estimate, and the real number could end up significantly higher or lower. Based on that number, it would trail the 1.6 million for UFC 100 and the 1.05 million for the 2006 Chuck Liddell vs. Tito Ortiz fight, and right at 1 million for UFC 92 (a triple main event of Evans vs. Forrest Griffin, Frank Mir vs. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira and Jackson vs. Wanderlei Silva). It would be in the same range as UFC 91, with Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Couture, and UFC 94, with the second Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn match. Both of those shows were really one match drawing shows.

...Most impressive is that it was a one-match show as far as marquee value. Had Griffin not pulled out of his fight with Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, adding Griffin, one of the company's top draws, would have probably pushed it past the 1 million mark. Without him, I thought it would fall a little short.

Before the show, Dana White's prediction was 850,000. He claimed it was based on advanced orders that other details that usually give the company a pretty good idea how the show will do. That would rank it No. 6 or No. 7 on the company's all-time list. The record going into this show for a non-title match main event would have been 775,000 for the Ken Shamrock vs. Tito Ortiz grudge match in 2006 (technically that show had a Tim Sylvia vs. Andrei Arlovski heavyweight title match billed as the main event). For a show that didn't have a title match of any kind, no UFC event historically has topped 600,000 buys (Royce Gracie vs. Matt Hughes in 2006), so if nothing else, this blew away that record, probably by a wide margin.

Evans got $410,000 of disclosed money, but with his PPV bonus, should get well into the seven figures. Jackson got $250,000 disclosed. He has a PPV bonus written into his contract. If the show did 800,000 buys, and it probably did more, Jackson will end up with a figure probably around $2 million.

This comes on the heels of the news (via MMA Weekly, HT MMA Mania) that Spike TV's "UFC Prelims Live" for UFC 114 drew 1.6 million viewers. That's up over 30% from the UFC 111prelims twhich drew a series low 1.2 million viewers.

Mania adds:

The viewership was the second highest total for a "UFC Prelims Live" show since the series premiered before UFC 103: "Fraklin vs. Belfort" last September. The prelims for UFC 109: "Relentless" drew 1.7 million viewers.

Clearly the UFC has weathered their winter of discontent and it's now on the verge of being made glorious summer by Rampage vs Rashad followed up by Brock Lesnar's return at UFC 116 against Shane Carwin. After a long string of weak events from UFC 103 to UFC 109, they are finally kicking back into high gear.

It's notable that the Light Heavyweight title fight held only two weeks early did about half this much business. Clearly the American fan base prefers to see two American fighters in the headliner rather than two Brazilians, even if one of those Brazilians has the belt. 

Recognizing that fact, Zuffa did considerably more marketing for UFC 114 than they did for UFC 113.

Ufc_114_button_medium

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Thats awesome! Hopefully they do a Primetime for Lesnar vs Carwin as well. Lets see if Lesnar starts talking some good smack as th efight draws closer.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

oh they'll do a Primetime for that one

I have zero doubt.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 3, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would mean the Primetime would start next Wed and I havent heard anything of filming already being done. Quick, bombard Danas Twitter!

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

A week from Wed (June 16) is when it would have to start, but you make a good point.

by Hardcharger on Jun 3, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brock is a big obstacle to doing something with near-constant filming.

by Michael Rome on Jun 3, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

very true

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 3, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup. He could tell the camera crew to spend their time filming his ranch, or to film his crew of monster training partners he puts up in his compound if he needs a break to watch hunting shows.

by Hardcharger on Jun 3, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dana will make him do it. I like the fact that like Dana said, theres great variety to Primetime. Unlike 24/7 where its Mayweather throwing money or Pac singing Karaoke all the time.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right you are. Very glad too. I bet they do it.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

They didn’t do it for 100, why would they do it now?

by argyle on Jun 3, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I pray they make the whole thing a training montage to this song

by Disco1Stu on Jun 3, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nice!

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve been mesmerized listening to that song while watching Brock slam the shark in the gif below lol

by JeremyShane on Jun 3, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why? Prolly because the lame Chuck vs Franklin card is sandwiched in there. That thing is gonna tank.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be due to Brock being a recluse. And Shane being void of any form of a compelling personality.

"After I have a chipotle bleu cheese burger from Bennigan's I'll forget all about my Dad bein' queer and my Mom tryin to kill me!

by Earl Montclair on Jun 3, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah, Im betting they do the Primetime. Gonna be sick!

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I seem to remember Carwin tweeting about crews being there to tape Countdown, but there wouldn’t be a Primetime special “because of Brock.” I’m on my blackberry, so I can’t look at his tweets from the past couple weeks, but I’m pretty sure he said that.

Twitter.com/mmagroundnpound
www.mmagroundnpound.com

by bigtim on Jun 3, 2010 3:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

You are right. They’ve already filmed the Countdown footage of Carwin. He said there was no Primetime being done because Brock didn’t want it.

by Hardcharger on Jun 3, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

The shit talk for a Lesnar v. Carwin primetime would be great.

“His name is Shane Carwin. But, I like to call him Shame Carwin. S-H-A-M-E. Because that is what he is going to feel after thinking he was in my league.”

"After I have a chipotle bleu cheese burger from Bennigan's I'll forget all about my Dad bein' queer and my Mom tryin to kill me!

by Earl Montclair on Jun 3, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Great News

The fight had a buzz at the barbershop. And believe me that was a first.

"The fact that you constantly self censor yourself makes you like a flavored type of flavor"

by Dr. Doogie Seacrest on Jun 3, 2010 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Holy Shit!

great for Zuffa!

"Alas, there is no time-share on my balls." -Luke Thomas

by xAtlasx on Jun 3, 2010 1:48 PM EDT reply actions  

oh

love the random shakespeare

"Alas, there is no time-share on my balls." -Luke Thomas

by xAtlasx on Jun 3, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

and they say

an English lit degree doesn’t pay off!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 3, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

The insurance bill for my truck disagrees

i also haven’t graduated yet… but i’m still poor =(

Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death

by Anthony Pace on Jun 3, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I feel your pain buddy

unless the damn economy improves Teachers like me are gonna be screwed when I graduate :(

"Alas, there is no time-share on my balls." -Luke Thomas

by xAtlasx on Jun 3, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

which grade levels?

I feel like I’m gonna have to be a teacher to pay the bills when I graduate, though I’ve always maintained I lacked the patience (re: temper) to deal with kids.

If I do it, I hope it’s just a smorgasbord of AP Lit classes

Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death

by Anthony Pace on Jun 3, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

So does this mean that Rashad is a PPV draw?

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Jun 3, 2010 1:48 PM EDT reply actions  

UFC 108 would disagree.

Rashad’s last 2 PPVs that got big buys also had Rampage on the card.

"After I have a chipotle bleu cheese burger from Bennigan's I'll forget all about my Dad bein' queer and my Mom tryin to kill me!

by Earl Montclair on Jun 3, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

108 turned out to have zero intrigue though

So I won’t put much behind those numbers. All those injuries and changes to the card had to have screwed up the numbers.

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Jun 3, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah yes…………i forgot about have 108 was trying its best to out do 85.

"After I have a chipotle bleu cheese burger from Bennigan's I'll forget all about my Dad bein' queer and my Mom tryin to kill me!

by Earl Montclair on Jun 3, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would agree with that sentiment, but he is well recognized as one of the top fighters at 205. You can put him in a main event if you have another name to go with him. I doubt that Thiago Silva is particularly known since he hasn’t beaten fighters of note and also got clobbered by Machida. UFC 108 was generally a brutal card after all of the injuries forced guys to pull out.

But Rampage isn’t necessarily an auto-draw, UFC 96 wasn’t that big of a PPV either.

by bigweeze on Jun 3, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I equate 96 to 108

Rashad vs. Thiago to me is the same as Rampage vs. Jardine

It’s basically a well known fighter versus a who gives a shit kinda guy. I’m not sold that Rashad isn’t a draw, he’s dominated 3 of Zuffa’s top draws in Liddel, Forrest, and Rampage. Rashad/Rua does gangbusters.

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Jun 3, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Chance that ends up on Spike

Dana plans on doing a major event on Spike as an apology for the end of 112. UFC 120: Shogun vs Evans fits the bill for that.

by Mat Parker 116 on Jun 3, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was under the impression that the thank you/apology was an England event

That was the initial rumor.

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Jun 3, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough! Thanks!

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Jun 3, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is putting an event in London helping out anyone except for the brits that bought 112. Having an event in London does shit for me

by DayGeaux on Jun 3, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

THIS!

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Jun 3, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

No it's not

We’ve had 5 Spike events in the past.

Now if we had a UFC 75-esque gift, then yes it’s awesome. Bisping vs. Leben is not a gift whether it’s free or not.

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on Jun 3, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t say it was a good gift, but isn’t it the thought that counts…

Then again…

If the thought was:

Lets give them the London card for free. Nobody buys those ones anyway because of the tape delay. Plus the event doesn’t need a title fight becausee those fools in London will show up to watch Hardy, Bisping, Pearson and Winner regadless.

Then it isn’t really a gift…

by truck on Jun 3, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Lets say Evans takes Shogun (NEVER!!!!) and Rampage beats Machida (Do WHAT?) I bet Dana does Rampage Evans 2 for the title making it the highest bought UFC PPV of all time. 5 hounds with those 2, yes please!

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

That would be amazing if they could pull that off. Unfortuantely Machida will beat Rampage – especially if he’s as slow as he was against Rashad. I still think Evan has a great shot at beating Shogun though.

by pud333 on Jun 3, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets say Evans takes Shogun (NEVER!!!!)

weren’t you the same guy who said the same thing about Rampage?

I’d be willing to take that bet against Shogun too.

by pr0cs on Jun 3, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

No I said I was rooting for Rampage even though Im a fan of both and thought either one could win. My main prediction was a Rampage KO. Oh I and just added that ‘Never’ part because Im a huge Shogun hugger. I could see Evans beating him.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy crap!!!

That crushes what the pre-fight estimates were estimating… Great news!

Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate...

by punchdrank on Jun 3, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

He flat out rules the world!

Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate...

by punchdrank on Jun 3, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hot effing damn.

Better than I expected, yet not totally surprised. That was a marketable feud right there and they did a damn good job selling it. All the media coming out of the Fan Expo probably helped too. Great showing for the UFC.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 3, 2010 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Great showing for MMA.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meh.

It was a so-so card from an athletics perspective and only had one top 10 fighter outside of the main event… and he did not perform like a top 10 fighter. This is a much greater victory for the marketing department of the UFC than the sporting fans of MMA. Hence my word choice.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 3, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

These numbers just prove MMA is not a real sport. If you look at boxing the biggest PPVs involve the best fighters in the world. This is not the case with Zuffa. The fact that dumb, invented feuds sell better than actually high-level contests is sickening. BLACK ON BLACK CRIME!!!!!!

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, the plebs have no taste whatsoever. Come along, Esmerelda; we shall be having our tea and crumpets elsewhere!

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Jun 3, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Esmeralda was a French gypsy

No tea and crumpets for her =(

Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death

by Anthony Pace on Jun 3, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's just stupid.

Manny Pacquiao sold less than this with his most recent PPV. That was the number 1-2 welterweight fighting the number 4-5 welterweight. I guess boxing isn’t a sport either.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 3, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

First of all, boxing has its own problems regarding legitimacy and hand-picking opponents but my point was the top draws in boxing are top fighters. The fact that pacman’s latest fights have done less than this proves absolutely nothing. I’m talking about him and Mayweather being the top draws in boxing because they are the best.

But even if I were wrong about boxing, the fact remains that much of the fan interest in MMA if generated by dumb “rivalries” and the top drawers are largely popular based on marketing of a persona rather than their skill. And that’s not to mention there is no competetive architecture in MMA.

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hughes vs. Serra was a huge rivalry

but when it happened they weren’t top 5 fighters anymore. And all of a sudden, it didn’t draw.

Rashad vs. Rampage was originally supposed to be a title fight, and now it was a number one contenders bout featuring two top 5 guys in the most stacked division of the sport. Obviously the storyline improved the numbers, but so did the fact that it was two Americans, one from the north and one from the south, making each very relateable to several demographics. But lets not forget that this broke the UFC buyrate record for this year set by #1 p4p contender Georges St. Pierre.

You’re desperately grasping at straws.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 3, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, but Hughes Serra got nowere near the amount of markting of Shad’page and the obviously this drew more because it was percieved that these were two relevant fighters (illusion perpetuated by the UFC). If you look at these two as fighters neither are particularly impressive. Even if you do buy into the argument that these are the third and the fourth best LHWs in the world, respectively (nothing short of laughable IMO), it still destroyed Machida/shogun 2 which was no 1 vs no 2.

Also, GSP’s drawing potential rests largely on his physique and his nationality, as many of his PPV buys come from Canada, neither of which are due to his skill. Anderson Silva for example is notorious for his poor drawing ability despite being the “number 1 p4p.”

Obviously I’m not discounting fighter quality entirely but it plays a far smaller role than it should.

And trust me, few casting doubt on the legitimacy of MMA is grasping at straws…

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are reaching so badly, it’s not even funny anymore. Just stop. If GSP wasn’t a top 10 WW, he wouldn’t be a draw. Sam Stout’s pretty jacked, and is Canadian. Are you telling me he could sell 500K PPV’s for his physique and nationality? We can all agree that GSP is jacked, and women love him. But are you gonna tell me that a significant number of women are dishing out $55 to see GSP’s body?

by Charger567 on Jun 3, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Don’t know why I even said if he wasn’t a top 10. If he wasn’t at the top of the game is what I meant.

by Charger567 on Jun 3, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s a combination of factors, more than it should be. A large part of his drawing potential is based on his dominance but the factors I mentioned are also very significant. Again, see the AS example for a great fighter who draws poorly because he doesn’t have marketable traits.

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fans being drawn to athletes due to their ability PLUS their personality traits is hardly new. That’s the case in every sport.

It’s not exactly breaking news to state that fans like the great fighter that they relate to or admire his personality more than they like the great fighter who they don’t relate to or think is an asshole.

by Hardcharger on Jun 3, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chad Dawson is not much of a draw...

Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez aren’t huge draws (as far as I know)… The best fighters are not always the draws in boxing.

I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.

by Loot on Jun 3, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

frosnt1

Go away.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, what sort of sport is MMA when a fight between the #3 and #4 fighters in the most competitive weight class

with a title shot on the line sells well? What a farce!

Jesus, the feud was just icing on the cake considering these were the two top contenders fighting and were backed by the #7 ranked fighter in their division.

by Enmascarado on Jun 3, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

First of all, it was all about the feud. If you think fighters draw based on how they are “ranked” (which nobody outside of the fantasy world of MMA blogs knows/cares about (and rightfully so)) then you are delusional. the fact that machida/shogun II got about half this number of buys disproves that.

Secondly, LOL @ rankings. Complete and utter BS if you ask me…I would bet there are at least 20 fighters in LHW who could beat either of these two. What is Rashad except an undersized LHW with OK wrestling who gets rocked any time he tries to exchange with even utterly gassed opponents. And if you think Rashad’s wrestling is that good go watch the Sean Salmon fight. He was thouroughly outwrestled there before getting a headkick, but the UFC marketing machine would make you think Rashad totally dominated Salmon from the 1s clip they always show of that fight. Mark my words Rashad will be utterly dominated by any good wrestler such as King Mo, Jones, Bader, etc.

If you want proof of how dumb “rankings” are look at Lil Nog…Brilz is not “that good” the rankings are just that out of line with reality. Do you really think Brilz has changed that much since his fight with eliot marshal? HE"S THE SAME FIGHTER WHO WAS NEVER EVEN TOP 25 BEFORE THIS…Funny how lil nog was virtually non-existent in the “rankings” until he came to the UFC and beat the official LHW punching bag Luis Cane then suddenly he’s the man. It’s amazing what the UFC can make gullible fans believe.

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Name those 20 fighters, poste haste.

by Hardcharger on Jun 3, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

vera
bader
Jones
Matyushenko
Shogun
Machida
King Mo
Phil Davis
Matt Hamill
Couture
Franklin
(Ortiz already beat Rshad)
Anderson Silva

That’s off the top of my head, went with largely UFC fighters because they came most easily to mind but that’s not to say there aren’t plenty of others outside the UFC who could beat them.

I limited it to fighters who could beat Rashad, excluding strikers such as diabate or gufstaffson, gegard, (hell even forrest) who would easily beat Rampage (except forrest).

Honestly that’s my point though, most of the best fighters in the world are just 1-0 wrestlers who have absolutely no name recognition but would truck Rashad or Rampage.

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh you are so hard-headed…that’s my entire point that they are unnamed. I didn’t say let me name 20 right now off the top of my head I said i bet there exist 20 fighters who could beat them, and I stand behind that. Outside of the UFC most have almost no recognition (and the UFC has only like 25 ppl in each weight class anyway, lol…). I could scour LHW and list everyone I think could beat them but that’s a pretty big waste of time and you don’t seem like you care to broaden your perspective on MMA, anyway.

If you want to see how real ranking system works that’s based on objective measures and not just opinion, conjecture, bias, and media exposure, look at tennis, for example. Federer is the current number 1 based on year-round point totals not because a bunch of online bloggers see a marketing gimmick like a UFC belt around his waist.

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds a lot like

all those badasses in Asia who are 20th degree black belts in Kung Fu that would KO every UFC fighter with one finger.

by Electro Boy on Jun 3, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

well, we’ll never really know will we because MMA fighters are never asked to actually prove they’re the best and belong in the so-called “elite” (such as by fighting “non-elite” competetion). Funny thing is when they do they often look horrible doing it or lose (i.e. Koscheck, Noguiera). Did anyone consider Brilz or Thaigo top-flight competetion prior to those fights? Look at Shane Carwin, too. People argued that Mir had all the “elite” experience on his side and Carwin had beaten a bunch of nobodies…

It is silly to think there aren’t many undiscovered fighters who are better than UFC “champions” (the idea of a “champion” of the world is another ridiculous concept, btw).

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh and how could I forget Sanchez. too?? On this very same card another supposedly “elite” fighter gets mythbusted by a no-namer. this card was all about proving how absolutely absurd mma “rankings” are.

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

frosnt - give up while you're behind

you can’t name 20 and the short list you did provide has some terrible entries on it – Vera? Bader? Matyushenko?

you may not be a troll, but your list is troll-ish

also, when someone calls you on a hasty point you made that you can’t back up, don’t insult them with “you don’t seem like you care to broaden your perspective” – you just look worse.

by Django Z on Jun 3, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I may be trollish but I’m also right. And if I really tried i still could name 20 even from known fighters but the fact is I never said “let me name 20 fighters for you” my point was that there likely exist many fighters who could beat them, many of whom we have never even heard of. The fact is he, and apparently no one around seems interested in hearing out my argument as it is actually put forth, but rather decide to nitpick and find fault with things that aren’t even central to what I’m saying and ignore it completely.

And to respond to hardcharger below this is just an echo of things you already said. It’s convenient yes I know. MY POINT IS THERE ARE NO-NAME FIGHTERS WHO CAN BEAT THEM. BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THEY ARE NO NAMES THIS CANNOT BE PROVEN. Just like your Scripture, the Consensus Rankings, cannot be proven because they are entirely subjective, unlike tennis rankings, which are based on real measures, as I mentioned.

I only provided this list to humor you to illustrate that even within the UFC LHW division, which only has like 25 fighters, there are many fighters who I believe could beat them.

As I said before also… on the rare occasion when “elite” fighters take on talented, up and coming no names it often doesn’t end well for them.

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe

these unknown fighters should take a break from the Kumite and try out the UFC.

Otherwise I’ll continue to think the guys we have in the UFC, Dream, Strikeforce, Bellator, etc are the best fighters in the world.

by Electro Boy on Jun 3, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

These misonceptions and the illusion of an “elite” occur even when fighters are in the same org, though, as I listed above. Also, outside of the UFC most fighters are given very little recognition. Look at Dan Henderson and Roger Huerta, who both left the UFC highly regarded and both lost convincingly in smaller shows to opponents most considered overmatched. Why, exactly, is this? What makes a UFC fighter, or a win in the UFC better than a win in another org? Have you ever thought about this?

Surely you will answer “the best fight in the UFC.” This may be true. But then again it may not. There is really no way of proving it.
What the UFC has a monopoly on is “big names”—that is to say fighters who are very famed (but not necessarily very good) and who, when they lose, give the illusion of credibility to the fighters who beat them. Fighters like Rashad have benefited from this. Thus, the rankings are linear and are based, in some ways, off of what transpired years ago. One must wonder if it had been Jason Brilz who had been thrust in to face Liddell in Rashad’s place, would he be considered the number 2 LHW in the world?

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

What the rankings really reflect is just a super-extended version of MMA math that quickly falls apart and bears little relation to the world of mma today. Does the fact that Liddell beat Babalu 4 years ago mean that Rashad Evans is better than Jon Jones, today? According to the rankings it does, but looking at their actual abilities, this does not seem to be true. Looking back at this, it was merely good fortune that Rashad was even afforded the opportunity to fight a “name.” He squeaked by Ortiz after winning a decision due to point deductions. It was somewhat by chance that rashad evans became an MMA superstar.

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

writing a fanpost about the idea of a champion. Should address some of the issues described here, including my claims regarding no-namers. Check it out if interested—probably will be an hour or so.

by frosnt1 on Jun 3, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not all about the UFC

I think if a fighter is THAT GOOD he would have made it to one of the top organizations, like UFC, Dream, Strikeforce, etc.

by Electro Boy on Jun 3, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's an opinion

I get your dislike for Rashad Evans but saying Jon Jones or Brandon Vera are better than Rashad is an opinion.

Could Vera or Jones beat Evans? Yeah but Evans could also beat them we dont know because the fight hasnt taken place.

And so to sit here and say Vladdy is better than Rampage is nothing more than opinion. They havent fought so how do you know Vlad is better than Rampage?

Because, in your opinion, Vladdy has better skills?

Well the majority of people disagree with you there and that is why in rankings where it is an opinion consensus Rampage is gonna be ranked higher than Vlad.

Same with someone like Fedor. There are people out there that think Brock is better than Fedor but guess what the majority of people think Fedor is the #1 hw in the world and so that is why in opinion consensus rankings Fedor is ranked as the #1 hw in the world.

by bigdmmafan on Jun 3, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's all an opinion

Is anyone unbeatable? No. GSP might lose to Nick Diaz if they ever fought just like Fedor might lost to Brock if they ever fought.

Your never gonna have the top fighter fight every sigle other fighter in his division.

So what does it come down to the majority of people give their opinion and the majority of people think Shogun is the #1 lhw in the world and GSP is the #1 ww in the world and Fedor is the #1 hw in the world.

Now could they lose to someone outside the UFC? Sure. They might also beat everybody outside the UFC as well.

Same with Fedor. Could he come to the UFC and lose? Yes but he could also come to the UFC and dominate as well.

by bigdmmafan on Jun 3, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, I’m hard headed.

It’s also incredibly convenient to say that there are 20 guys out there who can beat Rashad, but I don’t have to name their names because they are unnamed.

by Hardcharger on Jun 3, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah…. no…

by Charger567 on Jun 3, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Lil Nog was arguably the best LHW outside of the UFC

before he arrived. Stop making up stupid arguments to suit what you’re saying.

Who cares if Rashad was losing to Salmon if he ends up knockin him out dead… Big Nog made a career out of taking punishment and coming back for the win, but I don’t need to argue results as Rashad has lost one time in his career, and has beaten Chuck, Rampage, and Forrest Griffin (Shogun has gone 2-1 against the same comp)…

I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.

by Loot on Jun 3, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

When you come into an MMA blog and say MMA is not a real sport

You should automatically be banned. Especially when you DO NOT have a good point. Frosnt, quick go tell ESPN they are covering a fake sport.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Clearly the American fan base prefers to see two American fighters in the headliner rather than two Brazilians, even if one of those Brazilians has the belt"

While that may be true I think it had more to do with the deep animosity between the two fighters that has been displayed over the last year. That makes for high PPV’s.

by goodbadugly16 on Jun 3, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah and wasn't the fight also promoted by some kind of tv series?

actually two if I remember correctly. I wonder if that had an effect

by Disco1Stu on Jun 3, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also the racial aspect as well.

Kid Nate, you’re making illogical assumptions again! Bad Kid Nate, bad!

by Goonisis on Jun 3, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

American fan base prefers to see two American fighters in the headliner rather than two Brazilians, even if one of those Brazilians has the belt

^This is obvious because Americans like to be able to hear and understand their trash talking in english… Also, nobody, (maybe some do) trust’s the translation’s from ppl like Ed Soares that we have to settle for. It makes it too difficult to become emotionally invested in the fights, atleast for casuals.

Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate...

by punchdrank on Jun 3, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Rampage gets PPV escalaters right?

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Correct. And Meltzer’s article is the first I’ve heard of Rashad getting PPV points.

by ufc4 on Jun 3, 2010 2:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Since his TUF contract ran out and he is the former LW title-holder I would suspect he has some bonuses written into his contract.

by John Nash on Jun 3, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well yeah a lot of guys have bonuses in their deals, not a lot of them get a PPV percentage though.

by ufc4 on Jun 3, 2010 4:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

7-figures is one million dollars or about a $1 a buy. For a top 5 ranked fighter, TUF winner, and former LHW champ I don’t think that is that spectacular. Put it this way, Zuffa’s brought in $25 million + for this card and had to pay the headliners less than 10% and the rest a fraction of that. That’s a hell of a deal.

And I’m disappointed you didn’t zing me when I accidentally labeled rashes as “the former LW title-holder”. Get your head in the game boy.

by John Nash on Jun 3, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

STOP... Grammar time!

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Jun 3, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha, someone had to say it

by woooburn on Jun 3, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I trust Luke bemoaned and made jest of him for his lack of foresight and wisdom!

by Goonisis on Jun 3, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'd like to see the trending numbers

for buys vs. explosiveness

i’m guessing the more explosivity on the card, the more buys

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Jun 3, 2010 2:05 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

This explosiveness commenting has really exploded on BE lately.

by JeremyShane on Jun 3, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well we did just have the most explosive main event in UFC history.

Yo, I'm smokin herbals till it hurts you
I keep your daughter way out past her curfew

by TitanFan2K on Jun 3, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

to be fair though, i’ve been in the “explosive” game since the beginning. its really just a knock on commentators for not being able to say “yeah, he’s black and really athletic”

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Jun 3, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

explosive is a lot shorter than “black and athletic”

and now I’ll be watching to see if they say it about white fighters lol

by JeremyShane on Jun 3, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually, I do think they have said it about Lesnar

by JeremyShane on Jun 3, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

But then, Lesnar did say he is built like a black man

(and I’ll quit talking to myself now)

by JeremyShane on Jun 3, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahahahaha i didn’t see the double use of explosive on first look. Well played sir.

Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down

by Austin Martin on Jun 3, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m glad we got an article about PPV buys where Kid Nate didn’t insist on somehow spinning it into UFC’s decline and “inability to follow up on momentum” or whatever randomness. At least we know 800k+ is considered success here ;)

If this fight would have:
1) had Forrest fighting
2) Not been on against a Lakers-Suns playoff game

It probably would have done even better business. I think the Liddell-Franklin card will do OK, but guys at my office have been talking Lesnar-Carwin ever since it was announced. That fight is going to be huge, literally and figuratively. Especially being placed on a holiday weekend like it is, with no major sports competition. I doubt it’ll top UFC 100 though, so we’ll see if we get an article stating that it failed with 1M buys because it didn’t do 1.7M

by Jason H. on Jun 3, 2010 2:46 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

damn

I should have “crowdsourced” this post

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 3, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

This should also end the myth that mma’s heavily white fanbase won’t pay to see african american fighters.

by Michael Rome on Jun 3, 2010 3:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

We could all use a little black on black crime every now and then.

by MMAGuard on Jun 3, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe a myth will be created after Franklin vs Liddell that the heavily white fanbase won’t pay to see caucasian fighters.

by DirtyML on Jun 3, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think

the differing demographics interested in this fight had a large part in this.

Training BE since January 2010

by Fake Emcee on Jun 3, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kinda want to make a graph.

Alla som inte dansar är våldtäktsmän.
Cré nom de Zeus, on est jamais content.
Hadouken.

by Eugene Schelfaut on Jun 3, 2010 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Do it. Graphs are pretty.

by pud333 on Jun 3, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

sometimes they are bar-y

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Jun 3, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

The pie ones are the most delicious though

Follow me on twitter @thisredengine

Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com

by Matthew Roth on Jun 3, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I have to wonder

how much of the buzz and corresponding buyrate are because of the year-long delay that the fight experienced. Because of the month-to-month nature of the UFC pay-per-views, sometimes huge matches only really get forced into the mainstream view for a few weeks before the fight because the UFC was focusing on another event. The best buzz for a fight is waiting and anticipation, which isn’t always something you get with the ufc since they tend to make matchups happen so quickly.

I kind of equate it to boxing where an obvious matchup (something like Manny/Floyd) is in the future, but because of logistics and negotiations and co-promotion and all of that, people are forced to sit and wait for these fights forever. It creates a huge buzz just because of how long people have been waiting and talking about it. Manny/Floyd wouldn’t do nearly the numbers 2 years ago that it will do if it happens in 1 year.

by TheChairman on Jun 3, 2010 4:07 PM EDT reply actions  

I live in WV and there was HUGE buzz around here....

The Mexican Restaurant I often go to that shows UFC events was packed, so we left, went to Hooters, MEGA packed, ended up at Applebee’s of all places. Not a lot of ppl there, but everyone there was there for the fight.

by JimJoe on Jun 3, 2010 4:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Holy crap. That's impressive.

I can only imagine how well UFC 116 could do with BROCK, Carwin, and Wandy on the card.

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on Jun 3, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Wand isnt the draw people are making him out to be

If he was, 110 would have done better than 240k buys.

by bigdmmafan on Jun 3, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rampage is as mainstream as the Iceman Chuck. The A-team media coverage was probably the biggest factor in helping Rampage get that cross over appeal and reap those ppv buys. Too bad half the fight was a snoozer, but at least casual fans got a taste of Russow the man beater

by pandaboy99 on Jun 3, 2010 5:17 PM EDT reply actions  

considering the cards overall appeal and the main event especially

i predict a lot of disappointed casuals not buying any cards in the near future. it’d be a nice bonus if people’d start hating trashtalk (when used for promotional purposes) based on this, too.

Go big red!

by pornflake on Jun 3, 2010 8:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m pretty sure most of the people disapointed in it are hardcore fans, they seem to be the only one’s that have a hard time accepting that Evans was the better man.

by Nightwhistler on Jun 3, 2010 11:37 PM EDT reply actions  

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