Quotes of the Day: Tito Ortiz, Kenny Florian and Pat Miletich Respond to Fedor Emelianenko's Loss to Fabricio Werdum
by Kid Nate on Jun 29, 2010 10:30 AM EDT
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Has he ever been tested? Maybe once or twice? You can't say you're the best in the world if you haven't competed against everybody in the world, and he hasn't. And I think by him not coming to the UFC put a big (stain) on his record. You can have a company back you and say you're the best guy in the world, but until you compete against the best guys in the world, you're not that guy. There's a lot more things going on behind the scenes, and it's not just Fedor making those decisions. Fedor is fighting for his country. But it is what it is, and it just proves that he's not invincible and that he's not one of the top heavyweights in the world. I think he's a decent fighter overall...
(Fedor's wins over "Cro Cop" and Nogueira) were a long time ago. That was when he was in his prime, I guess you can say. He hasn't fought anybody on the UFC's level...
Tito Ortiz quoted by Sherdog
Fedor is all class & will be back. He is an amazing athlete. He needs to update his training. If he does this, he will be back on top. Fedor is still the greatest heavyweight of all time, but the sport is so new & changing so fast. So easy to get left behind in MMA. No such thing as "just got caught." It was a technical error. He didn't slip & fall into the triangle. Got caught (twice).
Kenny Florian quoted by Sherdog
Today on all the forums, Twitter and Facebook, people are saying they knew he wasn't the best fighter in the world. Really? All I can say is, he wasn't (Saturday) night.
Fabricio Werdum was insistent in his interview that Fedor is the best in the world. I respect Fabricio for saying this. This shows true class from a true world-class fighter, and Werdum is a true fighter. What Fedor said was something only a man like he could say. Fedor said, "A man that does not fall, does not stand up."
I just wonder who out of all those who are so critical of this man will stand in front of him when he stands back up?
Pat Miletich quoted by Sherdog
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Tito is the lowest of the lows
but even a broken clock is correct twice. He is absolutely spot on this. Fedor could have come to the UFC and cleaned the house. Everytime you say UFC, people say Brock Lesnar. Don’t give a rat’s ass about him. Just come, beat JDS, Cane, and a bunch of youngsters and retire like king.
I do think Fedor did not expect to be defeated or he’d not go to the ground with Fabricio. He should have watched JDS fight and just knocked him the F out
by SheepleBuster on Jun 29, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If he had come over and beaten JDS or Cain even 6 months ago
People would STILL be saying he wasn’t tested because they weren’t “proven” champions then either.
Not afraid to nitpick
I'm aware
But to say “oh had he beaten JDS or Cain I’d be happy” is a lie. 6 months ago, neither of them were more battle tested than Brett Rogers was when he fought Fedor—-in fact, Arlovksi was probably considered at the time a better scalp than any of Yvel, Cro Cop, Werdum, Struve, Kongo or Rothwell.
The only guy he can really be accused of “ducking” is Lesnar, which is a fair accusation IMO.
Not afraid to nitpick
I’d be happy if he was fighting within the top five HWs consistently. Personally I’d think he was the best if he had lost and fought rubber matches to pick up wins against them.
But fighting guys after they are cut from the UFC and are in the midst of plummeting through rankings…nabbing them as they are still in the top ten…doesn’t really say much. And fighting guys that barely peak into the top ten on some lists…Werdum, Rogers doesn’t say much either.
In the end, money talks…. what have the odds been on Fedor’s fights for the last five years? What would they have been (before this loss even) if he came to the UFC and fought Lesnar, Carwin, Mir, JDS, Cain, Gonzaga?? All the fanboys want to say he is the best in the world, but if you don’t have odds on everyone you are fighting, then the dollars don’t support your bias.
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
If he had fought Carwin, JDS, Cain or Gonzaga 6+ months ago?
Probably the same level of ridiculous lines. That’s what I’m saying, none of those guys were any more “proven”—-or rather were just as unproven—-as Rogers was when he fought Fedor. Again, Arlovski was considered a bigger win than any win those guys had 6+ months ago and I believe the rankings had him higher than Carwin, JDS, or Cain at the time.
Mir would have gotten labeled similarly to Werdum—-“Fedor has been dominating BJJ guys his whole career and he’ll own him on his feet anyway!” and I bet the line wouldn’t have been better than -400. The only guy prior to Fedor vs. Rogers who would have posed a reasonable betting line would have been Lesnar.
I’m not a Fedor fanboy for the record, I think he went to Strikeforce because of Lesnar—-just not any of the other guys.
Not afraid to nitpick
That’s unfair, not just to Fedor but also Arlovski and Sylvia. When Fedor fought Sylvia in 08’ he was ranked #5 on BE consensus top 10 with a 24 wins and only four losses to such losers as Mir, Arlovski, Couture, and Big Nog. Now you may claim that he was overrated and in the midst of plummeting in the rankings, but apparently he was good enough to be fighting for the UFC’s interim championship a few months previous. So ostensibly he was considered the 3rd best man in the UFC. The two men ahead of him? A man Fedor had beaten twice previously (Big Nog) and a man going to court to leave the UFC to fight Fedor (Couture).
And Arlovski was doing anything other than plummeting when he left the UFC. People seem to forget he won his last three UFC fights and then when on to beat Rothwell and Nelson (who are a terrible 4-1 combined in the UFC since then). I think people need to go back and remember where the mma world was in January of 2009 when he fought Fedor as the legitimate number 2 HW. Who would we rate higher? Frank Mir possibly with wins over legend Big Nog, 1-0 mma newcomer Brock Lesnar, and Antoni Hardonki as well as some terrible losses before that? Brock who just got done beating Herring and Couture but also got caught by Mir and wouldn’t really look like a real wrecking machine until destroying Mir at 100? Josh Barnett?
In 2006 and 2007 Fedor fought nobody. But when he came over to fight with Affliction was booked against the best HWs in the world at that time, not the best HWs of now. Unfortunately the need to belittle his competition means we have to rewrite history and downplay the accomplishments of some very good fighters.
by John Nash on Jun 29, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 26 recs
I disagree
It just shows how the rankings are bullshit. No offense to Sylvia but he had a boring decision with freaking Vera and a loss to Randy. I don’t dwell on the past though. Fedor can still come to UFC.
by SheepleBuster on Jun 29, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
travel back in time to 2007/2008
who do you think was better at the time than Sylvia? Fedor, Cro Cop, Nog, Couture and…. ???? Please give me some names.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Jun 29, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yea cause no one in the UFC goes to a decision. GTFO. Give us some names well.
"For your information, I would like to ask a question."
-Samuel Goldwyn
by fedorade on Jun 29, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
exactly nottheface
i forgot what strong cases Arlovski and Sylvia had going for them at the time they fought Fedor, particularly Arlovski
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
As a general rule:
When you make posts like this, just assume that one of the recs is from me.
To add, Rogers earned a place at the bottom of the top 10 as well. Arlovski was a better win for him than Kongo for Cain and Gonzaga for Carwin. This is before we saw the ring generalship of Carwin vs. Mir and our last image of him was getting rocked before landing a heavy short punch. At that point, Rogers and Carwin were two really big guys who hit really fucking hard and were nearly interchangeable. It’s worth remembering that Rogers was a decent fight to book for Fedor, just not as awesome as Sylvia and Arlovski were.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Rec
I remember what the UFC heavyweight division was like when Fedor signed with Affliction and it was nothing like it is today
Like I said, my opinion is based on my opinion. I personally did not feel like Arlovski was a threat any more in his career after watching the last few fights he had before leaving the UFC. And I never cared for Silva, thinking his size and limited skills would carry him only so far.
I could have been proven wrong, but I wasn’t. They have both continued to decline and have shown to be past their prime.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t have booked those matches for Fedor if I was in a position to do so. Just saying, fighting Arlovski or Sylvia at those points…not even close to fighting Lesnar or Carwin or JDS, etc. now.
Well, you are looking at two different time periods and trying to compare them. Who would win, U.S. army of 1875 or 2010?
"For your information, I would like to ask a question."
-Samuel Goldwyn
yeah Big Tim's skills carried him only so far
two time UFC champ.
I’d love to see your analysis of:
literature (Shakespeare? hasn’t written a hit play in decades! The Tempest was weird who cares)
music (Elvis Presley? didn’t even write his own songs)
movies (Stanley Kubrick? that nicole kidman movie sucked)
etc etc etc
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 29, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I dont consider people and idiots the same species
idiots will always find a reason to bash someone. Whether it’s calling Brock gay, or Fedor overrated, or whatever. I am talking about fair people. No Fedor or Lesnar fan boys.
JDS 6 months ago was still a great opponent. He destroyed Werdum and has destroyed everyone in front of him. Cane vs. Fedor in Mexico would have been huge. Carwin and Mir were options too considering that Brock has been out for a year. I think Fedor could beat or lose to some of those guys. But it’s much better than beating on Rogers or Arlovski. And after 4 title defenses, Fedor could retire as the best fighter ever.
I am hopeful now that he has a loss, he’ll come to UFC. I want to like the guy but he makes it hard when he does not play balls a bit. Dana is despicable and garbage. This sport is about the fans and not Dana. So Fedor should just play balls a bit.
by SheepleBuster on Jun 29, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Has he ever been tested? Maybe once or twice? You can’t say you’re the best in the world if you haven’t competed against everybody in the world, and he hasn’t.
Everybody in the world? Wow, that might take a while. As far as I know nobody has fought everybody in the world and won, so there is no best. Hell, Fedor has been ducking me for 10 years.
I understand Tito’s point of view though, he has fought the best world in the men and beat them.
by Electro Boy on Jun 29, 2010 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Tito is right for once
And Pat only says that because he actually was at the Pride events where everyone became drunk with the fedor persona.
Especially since he was talking about how great Fedor was all the time
in Affliction press conferences and saying how much he wanted to fight him. Tito is either being a company man (no historical precedent) or being a short-sighted idiot (much historical precedent). Dealers choice on what the cause is.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Tito’s wins were a long time ago. That was when he was in his prime, I guess you can say.
by BJJDenver on Jun 29, 2010 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
On the other hand....
I just wonder who out of all those who are so critical of this man will stand in front of him when he stands back up?
Well we know that one person to stand in front of him will NOT be Tito Ortiz
Back off dude
Tito has a cracked duodenum.
by Electro Boy on Jun 29, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Tito will be out for the next six months recovering from the removal of sand from his vagina.
"90% of this sport is 50% mental" - Tim Sylvia
You think he is going to give that sand up willingly? He is trying to make a pearl.
by gremlin1496 on Jun 29, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL @ those agreeing with Tito. Paid Zuffa posters.
Towing the company line huh? Tito was afraid to face Fedor at his fight weight. He knew he’d have gotten exposed as a has been.
Hey Tito.. Who were your last wins over that wasn’t Ken Shamrock out of his prime or a robbery of Forrest? lol Guess your wins in this decade mean nothing since they were cans.
Not practicing what he preaches doesn’t make him wrong.
And not believing Fedor is the best ever doesn’t make anyone paid zuffa posters.
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tito said
he’s not one of the top heavyweights in the world
NOT that he isn’t the best ever. Big difference. Tito is obviously wrong.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe that is his opinion
who knows what Fedor’s record would look like if he was fighting in the UFC and had had matches against the top five HWs instead of the (momentary) bottom HWs. If he had lost consistently he might not be on anyone’s top ten anymore.
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
The UFCs top HWs have been fighting guys like Kongo, Mir, Gonzaga and Rothwell. Check their records. It is fine to say Fedor hasn’t fought the very best lately but unless you actually believe Mir is a top 5 HW, the guys in the UFC haven’t fought the very best either.
In reality, we don’t even know for sure that Lesnar or Carwin are the very best. The UFCs top HWs have not consistently proven anything. Why is there such a burden on Fedor to do so? Because Dana says, that’s why.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Jun 29, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
People were clambering for Mir to fight Lesnar; you guys make cases for all of Fedor’s opponents, but then try to turn the tables on guys from UFC. What is Mir ranked now even after two losses? What was he ranked then? If everyone wants to hang their hat on saying, well Fedor’s opponent was top ten…then don’t discredit other’s for being top five.
Personally I have been saying the all need to prove they are the best. I, as a Lesnar fan, have been saying I’d like to see a couple more wins under his belt. I’ve also said Fedor hasn’t reproven he is the best in years. Hopefully as this year continues we will get to see some of these UFC guys face each other and thing will fall into place better.
or...
…because he was being held up by many as the #1 heavyweight and the top P4P fighter on earth. That could also have been a reason.
The calculus changes when you start talking about the best fighter in a weight class, or the best fighter in a division. People want to see the best fight the best. I’ve never seen Mir ranked by anyone as the world’s #1 heavyweight, and I’ve never even seen him appear on a top P4P list, so the level of his competition is less important.
The bottom line now, and for the past several years since Pride folded, is that Fedor and his management have made choices that have kept him from fighting the best possible guys. Even if you think he’s been in against good competition since his Pride days, few people would argue that there weren’t better fights available to him had he fought in the UFC (for considerably more money than he is currently making).
Again, nobody’s arguing that Fedor is bad, or hasn’t earned his place in history. Only that if he wants to be considered the best at anything now, he needs to go try his luck with the murderer’s row of HW over in the UFC.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
Questioning Fedor's recent accomplisments is not a mark of a grand conspiracy.
I don’t like Tito’s tone, but I think the meat of what he’s saying — that Fedor and his management at some point made a conscious choice to avoid facing the stiffest possible competition — is true. However people try to build up his post-Pride accomplishments, he hasn’t faced the sort of challengers that a guy at his level should be facing.
I would agree with you that Tito’s recent record has been even less impressive, but that doesn’t take away from his criticism of Fedor.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Monte Fisto on Jun 29, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry but
Arolvski was ranked #2. Was he overranked at the time? probably. But he was still ranked #2. Sylvia was ranked #5. Was he overranked? Definitely! But that’s where he was ranked.
If Fedor had come straight over from Pride, his first fight would have been Couture, right?
Does anybody not think that Fedor smashes the hell out of Randy? (and I like randy).
Affliction at the time, had a ton of decent fights for Fedor. Barnett, Arlovski, Sylvia, etc. Their HW division was actually pretty deep. The UFC’s was pretty shallow, at the time.
Since then, the UFC has added a bunch of talented young up-and-comers, and all but cornered the market on HW prospects. And Strikeforce has never had many decent HWs. But what’s true now wasn’t the case in the not too distant past.
NOT Agreeing with Tito...
…has he seen Fedor’s list of wins: At the time Fedor ruled Pride he was beating the BEST heavy weights in the world. His recent wins over Arvloski and Rogers were impressive as well. IMO he needed to lose to either reinvigorate his hunger to fight again or retire.
Fedor may have been the best in the world , but the sport has passed him by. happens to everyone sooner or later. even Ali took some vicious beatings at the end of his career.
by kanodogg on Jun 29, 2010 11:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good point
We’ve just been watching fighting and politics for so long, people forget about that. Larry Holmes was the WBC champ and Mike Weaver was the WBA champ for YEARS. When they finally did fight, Holmes won. Holmes won but he didn’t dominate like people thought he would. Weaver almost had him out before being tko’d. Nobody gave Weaver a chance but he almost pulled off the upset.
I'm not so sure the sport has passed him by....
….his loss to Werdum doesn’t necessarily indicate this—maybe he just got complacent. I think time will quickly tell however.
Right now it does not matter, there is no way outside of the UFC he can gain back the number one HW spot. To regain that he will need to fight the top four UC guys
I dont think it's passed him by
I do think people forget getting beaten once doesn’t mean you were never that good. My points about Holmes and Weaver are valid.
I'm waiting for the rematch
If Werdum or Overeem beat him handily, then we’ll know that Fedor is probably done.
Can we as MMA fans and Media blackout Tito?
Really, can we all do that for the good of our sport and sanity? He sounds like Jon Gosselin! Everything he tries to say and do is an attemept to self grandize himself, I would love to never, ever hear from Tito Ortiz again.
by Alf Bieber on Jun 29, 2010 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't know if you (or anyone here) have ever seen the movie
Zombie Strippers Tito is in the movie (as a bouncer) and there are a couple scenes here shit is going down, he makes a scared face and runs away, Super funny GIF material.
I know this isn’t really related to tis convo, but the thought just popped into my head.
i like the solidarity in kenny's quote
fedor is still bad ass win or lose
You must defeat me to stand a chance.
BJ Penn loses his title and gets ranked 2nd
Fedor loses his title and the internet labels him as washed up.
by RS26 on Jun 29, 2010 11:09 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You should pay attention better.
Many of the same people that say thing about Fedor said he was over rated way before this fight. When you fight guys that are dropping like a rock out of the rankings or just peeking into the bottom of it for years and people still label you the best, there’s a problem there.
I’ve always said two things IMO: 1. Fedor is one of my favorite fighters. 2. He is not the best fighter ever and not the best HW now. And I’ve been saying it for the last several of his fights. You can’t be best HW in 2004-5 in Pride and then spend the next five years fighting non contenders, whatever their rank; and still be the best just b/c you avoid the L column. There is more to being the best than not losing. Which to me, means Fedor can still be the best; he just needs to beat the best.
Losing to Werdum simply might show we are onto something. Some will want to build Werdum up, and he is good; but he is still one dimensional and doesn’t beat anyone that doesn’t fall right into his BJJ trap. I dont’ think he beats Fedor in a rematch.
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok..
Ok.. 1. People were saying Tim Sylvia was being ducked by Fedor, that’s why he didn’t sign with the UFC. Tim was a top ten HW at the time going into the Fedor fight.
2. Arlovski was on a 5 fight win streak, 3 win before leaving the UFC of his own accord and getting the aptly named “arlovski treatment” from Dana and co. Was ranked top ten at the time.
3. Barnett was ranked number 2 on most at the time of Affliction 3. Can’t say Fedor was ducking him.
4. Fedor fought werdum in his strength. Fedor has ALWAYS done that.. Fought Cro Cop in a stand up war.. Fought Arlovski with strictly boxing.. Timmah standing then did what Randy couldn’t.. finish a HEALTHY Timmah.. Rogers standing etc..
Ok.. 1. People were saying Tim Sylvia was being ducked by Fedor, that’s why he didn’t sign with the UFC. Tim was a top ten HW at the time going into the Fedor fight.
2. Arlovski was on a 5 fight win streak, 3 win before leaving the UFC of his own accord and getting the aptly named “arlovski treatment” from Dana and co. Was ranked top ten at the time.
3. Barnett was ranked number 2 on most at the time of Affliction 3. Can’t say Fedor was ducking him.
4. Fedor fought werdum in his strength. Fedor has ALWAYS done that.. Fought Cro Cop in a stand up war.. Fought Arlovski with strictly boxing.. Timmah standing then did what Randy couldn’t.. finish a HEALTHY Timmah.. Rogers standing etc..Fedor fought Werdum in his strength, where he could have easily stood up and kept the fight on the feet. GSP and Anderson cannot say the same, they fight safe fights. Fedor is a warrior and is the best fighter in the world.. It’s his first legitimate loss. Doesn’t take anything away from the ten years of being undefeated.
by RyannVonDoom on Jun 29, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m speaking for my opinion, just to be clear. I’m not trying to say my opinion is MMA fact, but…
1. I hated Tim Sylvia when he was champ and didn’t think he was that great. I just thought he was able to do it b/c of the weak HW div and his size.
2. Arlovski… I realize what his ranking was. But it had been a long time since I was of a mind that Arlovski was anything like the danger he once was. You can see in the Sylvia fights; he wasn’t the fighter he used to be. Though if it were me; I’d have made the fight money wise b/c he was still a big name. I don’t fault Fedor for fighting him, but I dont’ hang my hat on that win to say it’s = to him beating Cro Cop or Nog at their Prime.
3. Barnett, I don’t even know what to do with him. How good is he off ‘roids? Even on he isn’t that great IMO. But I never thought Fedor was ducking him.
4. I don’t know what I’m supposed to say to that? Obviously Fedor made a stupid mistake. Personally I always thought he was one of the most well rounded fighters out there, esp at HW; but if he is going to fight people at their strength then he is eventually going to get caught.
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
But if you are saying that he was ducking the best heavyweights in the world
And he was trying to fight the widely considered the #2 guy……that’s just a contradiction. You are right, who knows how good Barnett was off of ’roids—-but no one thought he was still on them when they gave him that #2 ranking.
Not afraid to nitpick
I can’t really argue about a fight that never happened. But I will say Barnett did at least seem more dangerous than anyone Fedor fought since Pride; but I still think he is over rated (even now when he is rated lower)
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
It's just the principle that you are labeling him as having purposefully avoided the best HWs at the time
And he actually was trying to fight the best HWs at the time. When Fedor fought Sylvia:
Cain had one fight in the UFC against Brad Morris and was lined up against Jake O’Brien
Carwin had one fight in the UFC against Christian Wellisch
JDS had not fought in the UFC
Lesnar was 1-1 coming off a loss to Mir
He should have been fighting those guys?
Not afraid to nitpick
Barnett did not look great in his win against Yvel
Had the guy down for years and couldent finish until the last round. He should have been able to slap on a sib or something. I believe most of the debate about Fedor ducking the top guys was not when he joinged Affliction but when he joing SF. It was at that point when the UFC’s monsters were starting to make their climb.
Right
But they hadn’t made their climb. The only guys who were were clearly more accomplished than Rogers were Lesnar and Mir. Carwin hadn’t beaten Mir, Cain hadn’t beaten Big Nog, JDS hadn’t beaten Werdum. And I don’t think anyone is putting a Mir win in the all-time vault: the guy Fedor would have been avoiding was Lesnar. Hell, even saying that, I’m not entirely sure I’d favor Lesnar over Overeem as things stand right now anyway.
Not afraid to nitpick
So basically you’re ignoring the rankings of his opponents when the fights happened and have arbitrarily decided they were crap mostly because they weren’t in the ufc anymore.
Also note how Fedor finished all these guys in highlightreel fashion which I at least personally think should count for something. For example compare it to how Anderson Silva got booed out of the arena for his performances against worldbeaters like Coete, Leites and Maia which apparently served to really cement Silvas legacy as p4p king.
to be fair,
the Barnett #2 ranking was a complete joke. He kept moving up the rankings despite, w/o doing anything, iirc. Simply being booked against the #1 fighter in a division will do that to you.
Actually, Sherdog ranked Fedor 3rd.
Quit crying. There wasn’t a LW that was obviously ahead of BJ or Frankie, so they were 1, 2. Brock is now the rightful HW king until he’s knocked off, so that’s why Fedor’s 3rd because of Sherdog’s ranking criteria he has to be below someone who’s recently beat him (Werdum at #2).
Who cares about rankings anyway?
The difference is BJ Penn didnt duck the top contenders for the past 4 years and then get chocked out in 69 seconds by a hand picked opponent.
fair enough. I’m just saying, if one fight was gonna deflate his entire standing, why did so many people have him at #1?
Im not saying he didnt deserve #1 – he did just enough to keep it up until now. And Im not trying to erase everything he’s accomplished.
He’s the best historical heavyweight to date. no questions. He’s a great human being. His worshippers are annoying but he’s probably the classiest fighter in the business.
Im talking about what the reality is today. The days of him resting on what he did in 2005 is over. Today he’s not a proven top 5 talent. Can he still be the best… sure. He just has to prove it now. If he doesnt he’ll still be the best heavyweight in history until someone takes that crown.
Chickens have come home to roost.
by mmalogic on Jun 29, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But it is what it is, and it just proves that he’s not invincible and that he’s not one of the top heavyweights in the world. I think he’s a decent fighter overall…
I hate you more than words can express, Tito.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 11:23 AM EDT reply actions
I’m really tired of all the haters who are trying kick Fedor when he’s down. This is his first loss in years, but somehow people find a way to distort that fact. Any fighter is capable of making a bad decision in the cage. Fedor, after years of not making crucial mistakes, finally made one. He’s human just like BJ, GSP, and Anderson. He’s still one of the greatest fighters of all time, and still has plenty of fight left in him. Fedor isn’t invincible, but he’s not washed up either.
Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is. I get more stunts and props than Bruce Willis- Guru
So we can’t criticize him when before the fight b/c he is “undefeated” and we can’t do it after he loses b/c then we are kicking him when he’s down.
I don’t think he is washed up, but if he starts fighting the best of the best now I think you see a fighter more like Couture that hovers around the bottom of the rankings with a mix of wins and losses and eventually cuts to 205 if he doesn’t retire.
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
So you think Big Nog beats Fedor this time? Ha
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
No, I was making fun of your Couture comparison. Fedor would destroy Couture and do much better against the same competition.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is.....
we’ll never know, will we?
by Electro Boy on Jun 29, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, direct that to Jeremy Shane who says Fedor would do as well as Couture in the UFC. We’ll never know, will we?
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, do you think BJ got criticized this much after he lost to Edgar? I don’t think GSP got this much criticism when he got KO’d by Serra. I just don’t like how Fedor has been vilified by the MMA community simply because he hasn’t/won’t fight in the UFC, and how ecstatic some people were when he lost. It’s unfortunate that he’s associated with M-1 because I feel Fedor wouldn’t have a problem signing with the UFC, but life isn’t always fair.
Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is. I get more stunts and props than Bruce Willis- Guru
by Dr. Octagon on Jun 29, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
b/c Fedor has been built up too much. I’m sorry. I love the guy, but I haven’t thought he was the best in the world in a long time at HW. And when you watch people justify fan worship with weak arguments, it takes something away from a fighter. I actually root against Fedor, a fighter I love, just b/c of his fanboys.
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
b/c Fedor has been built up too much. I’m sorry. I love the guy, but I haven’t thought he was the best in the world in a long time at HW. And when you watch people justify fan worship with weak arguments, it takes something away from a fighter. I actually root against Fedor, a fighter I love, just b/c of his fanboys.
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
GSP did get shit and still does for his questionable chin, half of what makes guys who can throw bombs interesting matches for him, there always that chance they could land one shot and it will be over.
BJ on the other hand dodges MMA fans shit slinging based on the fact he was in a fight that most thought he won. A very close decision is different then a 69 second submission.
agreed
He mauled his way into a bad position and one of the best HW grapplers in MMA capitalized. We knew this day had to come but some people are acting like Fedor was never any good.
"A man that does not fall, does not stand up."
I don’t think for example me saying “Fedor is not the best ever” = “he is no good”
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
not you in particular
But I see a lot of flaming going on that he was never a top HW which is moronic for any educated fan.
"A man that does not fall, does not stand up."
I can only speak for myself.
I think he is still a top HW and like I said before, even fighting the top five in UFC I think he wins some, loses some and would stay hovering in the top ten, even if the lower half like Couture did (though I think he has a better shot at dealing with some of the big HWs than Couture).
But I haven’t thought Fedor was the best (as in #1) HW in like five years.
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, Fedor made a little mistake and got caught in a sub by a BJJ world champion, I remember GSP getting KTFO’d by a ground fighter with no reach and subpar boxing, now if Fabricio would have knocked him out, that would have been horrible.
I don’t know what I"m supposed to say to that one…I’m not a huge GSP fan, but he is a great fighter. I think that when GSP comes to a fighter he can’t lay on he will be in trouble, but even then he still has good skills everywhere. All I can say is if GSP were fighting guys ranked at the bottom of the top ten year after year, people would be bitching.
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Dan Hardy was the first “wtf” challenger of GSP’s title defenses.
They didn’t really have a choice with the first Serra fight, it was part of the TUF Comebacks stipulation. We all know how that turned out though.
Other than Hardy and Dave Strasser he’s fought nothing but the best the last 6 years.
Look at his record, there’s not a single Zulu type fight on there.
by Electro Boy on Jun 29, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
All I can say is if GSP were fighting guys ranked at the bottom of the top ten year after year, people would be bitching.
^ This.
People complain about UFC fighters run through top position and end up fighting opponents outside of the top 5. Silva vs Maia, Penn vs Edgar, etc. Could you imagine the backlash if they did it on a regular basis?
Not washed up
But it was great to see him lose finally. Fedor huggers swear up and down he’s the greatest of all time, he can beat anyone, anywhere, anytime, and leap over tall buildings without getting a wedgie. He needed to lose so people would get off him for a little bit.
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
by II SMASH II on Jun 29, 2010 11:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just like Chuck Liddell!
So glad he’s lost so people can get off his nuts and stop acting like he was the best light heavyweight in the history of the sport.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Sarcasm, sir.
Honestly I’d say Wanderlei, and Shogun is two title defenses from eliminating all argument, but anybody who says Chuck has a strong case to argue. My point is what I’ve been saying for the past two weeks.
Fedor is established. Losses do not change the fact that he has an insane legacy that all fans of MMA understand and should smile upon.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jun 29, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You tired of the haters already?!?!
We had to listen to these little fucking fan boys suck Fedors dick for the last 4 years while he was ducking top contender after top contender… and now that he was chocked out by his hand picked opponent in 69 seconds YOU’RE TIRED OF THE HATERS AFTER ONLY 3 FUCKING DAYS!?!@
We owe you turds 4 more years of this shit.
by mmalogic on Jun 29, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
easy killer
a little harsh there don’t ya think?
if someone else disagree’s with your OPINION they are “little fucking fan boys” who “suck fedors dick”
arlovski and sylvia were top contenders when they fought fedor and the fact that you don’t know that only shows your ignorance
i’m not taking sides in this particular thread but for you to so be such a cock because someone’s opinion is different from yours makes you look like a total tool
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldnt call it ignorance
More of logics way of doing things, might as well get used to it because its here to say.
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
by II SMASH II on Jun 29, 2010 12:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They were not THE top contender. The last time Fedor fought THE top contender was crocop in 2005. After Crocop it was Randy, after Randy it was Brock or Mir, After they fought each other again it was Brock.
Fedor’s #1 ranking (deservedly so) is based on 2 fights: Nog and Crocop. Nog, Crocop and Werdum all came to the the UFC and not one of them could made it… Neither did Tim Sylvia or Arlovski (arlovski had 2 title shots in the UFC when it was at it’s weakest state he lost both). So how on earth was Fedor fighting THE top contender for the last 5 years? Tim Sylvia was a step back from Crocop and Nog… Arlovski was a step back from Tim Sylvia and all failed to capture or keep the UFC belt.
Arlovski was #2 when he fought Fedor. Go look it up. Is that not THE top contender?
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
- based on what? kids in their moms basement? Nick Diaz is ranked #5 welterweight right now… do you actually take these rankings seriously?
Randy beat Tim Sylvia who was the top guy in the UFC and Gonzaga who beat the top guy from pride. Randy was the top contender.
Arlovski had 2 shots at the title and couldnt win. After losing twice to tim sylvia he has still not beaten anyone better 5 years later.
Im not saying Fedor didnt deserve be ranked #1 throughout that 5 year period. Im saying he didnt fight top contender after top contender since crocop 5 years ago. When you do that and then lose to a hand picked opponent after people are gonna bitch and you cant expect to be treated like BJ penn or GSP and say “everyone loses” or “BJ penn only moved down one slot”. Fedor is taking a bigger hit because he created very little buffer for the fall. He didnt lose to the top contender, he lost to a fringe top 10 guy.
It’s not fedors fault… he never said he was the p4p best or goat or even the best HW (which he was). It was his retarded worshippers.
Fedor is historically the best HW ever… Fedor was the deserving #1 ranked HW for the past 7 years or so… No doubt. But lets call a spade a spade.
History has a funny way of clearing up all the hype of the moment… people can now see the utter stupidy and foolishness of ranking arlovski #2.
you should probably be quiet
you cant expect to be treated like BJ penn or GSP and say "everyone loses" or "BJ penn only moved down one slot". Fedor is taking a bigger hit because he created very little buffer for the fall. He didnt lose to the top contender, he lost to a fringe top 10 guy.
you see you keep spouting off nonsense
gsp lost to serra who wasn’t even close to top ten
and bj penn lost to edgar who was also a top ten fringe guy
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s make easier:
If fedor lost to Crocop in 2005 do you think he’d be discounted as much?
No, because who just beat Nog twice and just lost to the top contender at the time.
Even if Fedor lost to Zulu right after beating crocop he’d still not be discounted as much as he is today.
no they're not
see the list i posted of the last people they fought for proof that they’re not fighting the top contender
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
You my friend have no place to be telling someone to be quiet
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
by II SMASH II on Jun 29, 2010 1:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i'll qoute you
More of my way of doing things, might as well get used to it because its here to stay
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought i've been quite nice
especially when compared to him
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You're the kind of fan that makes me happy fedor lost
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
by II SMASH II on Jun 29, 2010 2:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And since replying to ourselves is the cool thing to do
Ill do it as well
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
by II SMASH II on Jun 29, 2010 2:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
An elitist like me cannot love someone like you
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
by II SMASH II on Jun 29, 2010 2:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
of course you couldn't
have a good day friend
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
One reason AA was ranked that high is because of the hype that surrounded him when he was on top in the UFC. Same w/Timmah. Today’s Carwin and Lesnar could very easily become tomorrow’s AA and Big Tim.
THAT is calling a spade a spade.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Jun 29, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
rarely do the number 1 and number 2 ranked fighters in a weight class fight
gsp’s next fight is against the number 4 ww
gsp’s last fight was against the number 6 ww
bj penn’s fought edgar when edgar was the number 7 lw
bj penn fought diego when diego was number 7 lw
bj penn fought kenflo when kenflo was number 5 lw
anderson fought maia when maia was number 7 mw
anderson fought leites when leites was number 8 mw
anderson fought cote when cote wasn’t even in the top 10
so you’re argument has been blown out of the water friend
since RARELY do THE number one and THE number two ranked fighters fight
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
so perhaps you mr mmalogic
should think about what you’re going to say before you start spouting off nonsense
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
They’ve already fought the top contenders genius.
If Fedor fought and beat Randy, AND THEN he fought tim sylvia you’d make sense.
does the fact that they’ve fought before or not take away from the fact that someone is or isn’t the top contender?
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
you can't
you can’t throw out rankings when it doesn’t fit your purpose
and then bring them back up when it does
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
That is not even close to what I said.
As I stated earlier…
People complain about UFC fighters running through top competition when they end up fighting opponents outside of the top 5. Silva vs Maia, Penn vs Edgar, etc. Could you imagine the backlash if they did it on a regular basis?
dude you want rankings and who fought who. Go and look at the WW, MW, LW listings and then count out how many each champion has not fought. heres my guess
LW will have the most with guys like Alveraz (sp?) Gilbert, and Aoki there so probably 4 guys or so BJ has not fought.
WW hmm off the top of my head there is robably two there that GSP dudent fight Diaz and Shields.
MW there are probably three or four here. Vitor, Cheal, Shields again,and probably hector lombard (sp)
and on top of that you're wrong
here’s the rankings from the month before the bj penn edgar fight
1 B.J. Penn 100 UFC
2 Shinya Aoki 92 DREAM/Strikeforce
3 Eddie Alvarez 90 DREAM/Bellator
4 Kenny Florian 88 UFC
5 Gray Maynard 83 UFC
6 Tatsuya Kawajiri 81 DREAM
7 Frank Edgar 69 UFC 6
i see 4 ppl between bj and edgar that he hadn’t yet fought
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
who’s retarded rankings are those? I can spend 8 bucks on a domain name and create rankings too.
But again History clears up hype and foolishness. Aoki never deserved a #2 ranking.
GSP has beaten all top 4 welterweights so then he fights Hardy and all of sudden that’s comparable to what Fedor did?
Nope. But lets see Aoki was the true #2 (aoki would be the biggest underdog from a betting perspective from all those guys by the way – but lets say he was the true contender…
Was BJ a free agent? did he decide not to sign and fight this fictional top contender? no. Aoki was however a free agent before the melendez fight and decided to stay with dream.
History clears up the hype.
To give you an example:
Bodog opened lines on randy and fedor and Couture was a 2 to 1 underdog.
You know what arlovski was? he was around 4 to 1.
History clears up the foolishness in rankings.
Know who I think is ranked too highly? Brock Lesnar. 4-1 and nearly #1 ??? Still, that’s probably who you think Fedor needs to fight to prove himself.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next fight. From one UFC HOFer to a likely future inductee, "F^ck you, Tito."
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Brock in just 5 fights has more significant wins at PRESENT than fedor.
Today Fedors best wins are Nog and Crocop. Niether sylvia, arlovksi or rogers are even close.
Mir killed nog making a win over Mir more significant in todays mma landscape. Gonzaga killed crocop. Randy crushed Gonzaga.,.,, Making Randy a more significant win in today’s mma landscape than crocop.
So in todays mma realities having a win over Mir and Randy are more significant than Crocop and Nog.
But maybe you’ll argue Fedor beat nog and crocop at their prime… so what. That fact that you think they arent in their prime now makes those wins less signifcant then.
Im not talking about Brock of 2010 vs Fedor of 2005. Im talking about today. Brock of 2010 has more significant wins than Fedor of 2010.
You keep saying that Randy was THE top contendor, not Arlovski. Check out the rankings in Jan 2009: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/1/11/716604/bloody-elbow-january-mma-m
Couture was #7 because he lost to Lesnar in Nov 2008. Why, then, was he THE top contendor for Fedor??
You’re using MMA math, which isn’t logical at all. Everyone knows it doesn’t work, Mr. Logic.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next fight. From one UFC HOFer to a likely future inductee, "F^ck you, Tito."
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No you’re using rankings made up by some people who know what they are talking and about and the rest from kids in their basements… And History clears up all the ignorance in the rankings. How many times have the rankings been exposed? Zaromskis was a top 10 ww. Nick Diaz is currently ranked #5. if you look at the rankings you’ll see that’s mathematically impossible using their own list of ranked fighters
You dont need the rankings… It’s very easy to clearly identify who the #1 contender is at any given time – see my comment below.
The #1 contender most certainly was not Couture or Lesnar when Fedor fought Arlovski in Jan 2009. Go read nottheface’s highly rec’d comment up above.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next fight. From one UFC HOFer to a likely future inductee, "F^ck you, Tito."
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
his entire argument is based on faulty rankings. It’s ridiculous… it’s like assuming rankings are infallible and actual history doesnt matter. who gives a shit what fanboys were ranking at the time. History clears all that hype up and everyone can see the truth.
If you agree that crocop was the top contender after the open weight grand prix and even if you dont and think it was Tim Sylvia – both lead to the same lineage of the true top contenders.
the rankings had barnett at #2 at one point even though he had lost to nog and hadnt beaten anyone of note. He’s still beating those same kind of guys and all of sudden he’s not #2 anymore? does that make sense?
The rankings are worthless. All you need is the historical data (wins and losses) and you could figure out what the actual reality was.
saying 2 years ago joe blow in his moms basement ranked x fighter as # y is meaningless.
Your MMA math is meaningless. Let’s see what kind of dumb math I can come up with.
Both Arlovski and Nogueira beat Werdum. That means Fedor would beat Werdum, right? No, because it doesn’t work that way. Styles make fights, and MMA math doesn’t work. MMA is too unpredictable for that. Rankings > MMA math
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next fight. From one UFC HOFer to a likely future inductee, "F^ck you, Tito."
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Rankings are meaningless, too.
I prefer common sense. I was hoping all this bullshit would end once Fedor lost, but it seems like the same old arguments are dragging on and on.
It’s not mma math… it’s historical lineage of the top contender.
But ok – keep believing in your fairy tale rankings and ignore history…
But answer me this:
Who was right?
Were the rankings that were created by kids jerking off to pro-wrestling before mma was the “cool” thing or was the actual historical lineage right?
Was Arlovksi the true contender or was Brock?
Where’s brock now and where is arlovski?
History exposes stupid and ignorance… and it amazes me that people cant think for themselves instead of holding onto some rankings like it’s the bible.
The people who created the rankings used to talk about how big bob sapps testicles were on the sherdog forums before domain names became affordable..
Fighters change over time, just like regular people. The fighters of 2 years ago are not the fighters of today. They lose or gain motivation, they get injured, and things happen in life. Rankings will always be in flux. Arlovski being who he is now does not reflect on who he was over 2 years ago. This is a dynamic world we live in.
I still don’t consider Brock the true contendor. Not until he gets more wins. I don’t care about that belt he has. In his hands, it’s about as meaningful as the Strikeforce belt. Show me more wins, and I’ll buy in.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next fight. From one UFC HOFer to a likely future inductee, "F^ck you, Tito."
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
one more thing before i go
brock has only beaten 2 top contenders
one was randy who is 134 years old and brock outweighed him by 700 lbs
the other was mir the second time
when mir and lesnar fought the first time mir was not even close to top contender or top ten
and when lesnar beat herring herring was not top ten
that’s an argument for another day though
once again take care of yourself
and try to relax
friend
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
lol Damn, logic
You wanna talk about people sucking Fedors dick yet there you are swallowing The Vanilla Gorillas balls after being what, 4 in fucking 1??? Lolol! Dude atleast wait til Sat night to see if it was worth it. Carwin will be a significant win. Old Randy who had a long layoff and was outweighed by a ton is not a sig win. Mur, well hes just 1-1.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jun 29, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I really dont know who’s gonna win this… it’s about as close a fight we’ve seen for the undisputed hw championship belt in 5 fucking years
In my estimation If carwin cant stop the takedown brocks got an 80% chance of winning… if Lesnar cant get the takedown it drops to 55%. Carwins got the power advantage but brock has the speed advantage.
I dont think Brock can go more than 3 rounds unless he can control you and carwins not gonna be easy to control so this should be a short fight… if they equal each other out in the first few rounds whoever gasses first will go to sleep. .
I’m going with Carwin 1st Rd KO, I think hes gonna stuff Lesnar shot and feed him leather. Im so fucking pumped for it! IMO Brock seems a little intimidated. In his interviews its like hes trying to convince himself hes better. Hes not stupid, He knows Carwin is his biggest and most legit test. It will not be pretty! =D
I’m not here to set up a jab, Im here to finish a fight. -Shane Carwin on Inside MMA
Love that fucking quote!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jun 29, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
what does vegas' betting odds
have to do with contendership?
once again
you can’t throw rankings out when they don’t fit into the point you’re making
if the point you’re trying to make was based on rankings
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
those retarded rankings
are from bloody elbows consesus rankings
look i’ve even provided you with a link
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
why do you need to look at rankings… it’s very clear who the top contender is at any given moment. These are a compilation of rankings of some who know what they are doing and some who have no clue.
Nick diaz is ranked #5 at ww. Gegard Mousasi is ranked #10 ahead of jon jones.
Identifying the top contender is key. I’ll give you the history and you tell me who the top contender was ok?
Fedor is the best HW in history. Nog is second. Crocop entered a tourney with Nog in it. Crocop won that tourney after killing barnett for the 3rd time. So who was the top contender? It has to be crocop. If you want to reach then you can say it could also be tim sylvia because he just beat arlovski for the second time.
Fedor didnt fight either of them.
Randy beats Sylvia and Gonzaga kills the #1 contender Crocop. Fedor fights neither of them.
Randy beats Gonzaga creating a clear #1 contender. Fedor doesnt fight him.
Brock beats Randy after killing herring. Brock is the #1 contender. Fedor doesnt fight him.
Mir beats the second best HW (and he already has a win over sylvia and brock)… yep, fedor doesnt fight him either.
Brock beats mir…. fedor again is a free agent and decides not to fight him.
Zuffa again enters negotiations with Fedor to offer him the Brock fight before carwin this july the 3rd and again Fedor declines.
Fedor instead fights a hand picked opponent who went 2-2 in the UFC who chokes the shit out of him in 69 seconds.
Name another #1 ranked guy in any weight class who pulled this shit?
I have no problem with his #1 up till now because he fought good enough competition… but because he didnt fight the top contender since 2005 he’s going drop and pay a price for it.
why do you need to look at rankings… it’s very clear who the top contender is at any given moment. These are a compilation of rankings of some who know what they are doing and some who have no clue.
without rankings you’re only going on YOUR opinion
on one mans opinion
that’s why i like the consesus rankings
it spreads it out over more than one person or group of people
it’s a consesus between top sources and imo is the closest thing to an official ranking we have in this sport
we’re obviously not going to persuade each other
i only responded to your statement because of how rude you were being towards whoever it was you were being rude to. the truth is i respect that your opinion is different from my opinion even if i believe it to be wrong. and you were being a cock and saying people “suck fedors dick” because their opinion differs from yours.
opinions are like assholes
we all have em and they all stink
i’ve enjoyed the conversation but i must bid thee farewell
take care of yourself friend
and try to relax a lil
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
completely backwords… it’s the Rankings that are filled with opinions and biases. It’s the rankings that continue to be exposed.
I gave you a clear geneology – there is no opinion. You dont need the rankings you can do it yourself.
after the open weight grand prix was crocop the top contender or not? The only other option was sylvia and no matter which one you pick you end up with the same conclusion.
have a good day
yeah yeah yeah
take care man
and thanks for the conversation
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Your mma math is useless.
I want Kim Winslow or Tan Dan to ref Tito Ortiz' next fight. From one UFC HOFer to a likely future inductee, "F^ck you, Tito."
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 29, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
At this point...
1) Penn had already handily defeated Kenny
2) Edgar looked more ready than Maynard
3) The rest weren’t options.
Penn vs Edgar wasn’t that of a huge stretch and be clear people still did shit on the fight even though Edgar was clearly as game as Silva had hoped.
Okay so Fedor couldn’t fight Randy because of the contract issues so wouldn’t that put Sylvia next in line? Wouldn’t that make Fedor the true heavyweight champ and everyone else’s responsibility to seek a fight out with him
no… there were no contract issues when Fedor was a free agent. Fedor decided to sign with monte cox’s m1 global and they had nobody at the time and then he decided to sign with affliction before they had anybody. He fought tim sylvia after he was beat by Randy and Big Nog.
I’m talking about Randy he couldn’t get the fight with Randy to happen I give all the props in the world to Couture because he tried harder then anyone to make it happen he wanted to fight the best heavyweight in the world, but Fedor had 2 wins over Nog who was then the UFC champ a title he got by the UFC saying that Sylvia and Nog were the best heavyweights on the roster and putting them in a fight my point is Sylvia/Fedor is the fight that made the most sense at that time as far as Heavyweight titles are concerned at that point Fedor could still call himself the number 1 heavyweight in the world everyone seems to bag on Fedor about his not signing with the UFC well why didn’t anyone bag on those guys who decided to sign with the UFC instead of going after the established number one heavyweight at that time?
Some of that occurs and is more understandable when the whole top five or even most of top ten are all in the same org and constantly fighting each other though. And still some of those are a bit questionable. But it’s more about consistency…are they fighting low ranked opponents all the time? I can understand if the cards fall that way sometimes, but not years in a row.
Sir you are arguing with a Zuffa employee
He has a vested interest in this
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jun 29, 2010 5:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
what’s the deal with everyone saying he’s ducking opponents because he didn’t sign with the UFC I mean the argument that he isn’t the best makes sense to me but that he’s ducking anyone is a gross overstatement he’s never claimed to be the best in the world and one thing he has done in the last couple of years is fight world class fighters
Nobody here is arguing with Fedor, who seems like a genuinely humble guy. The argument is with Fedor fans who have refused to budge an inch on the notion that he is the world’s top HW and top P4P fighter, despite not having fought in the sport’s top promotion for five years.
“Ducking” may be too strong a term (though M-1 did seem to be ducking Overeem when they called him a “steroid bully” and promptly asked for a fight with two-time loser Barnett) but regardless of the motivation Fedor and his management have made choices that have kept him out of the sorts of fights he should have been taking as the number one heavyweight.
Now that he’s lost to middle-of-the-pack top-10 guy, maybe we can get a little perspective and admit that the sport has moved forward and time affects everyone, even Fedor.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Monte Fisto on Jun 29, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re tired of the haters already.
We had to listen to these little fucking Fedor haters suck Dana’s dick for the last 4 years even when Fedor was destroying top competition… and now that he was tapped to a double submission by the nr1 bjj guy in the division we’re tired of the haters discrediting his whole career.
Fixed for mmalogic
W e all saw Fedor make a little mistake. Yes it cost him the fight but it’s not like some white belt triangled him, it shouldn’t change the fact that standing Fedor was lookin like his old self. His standup was quick and sharp, his ground n pound looked mean, he just made a little mistake, that’s all it takes against a guy with a black belt level ground game. I f Fedor fought Fabricio 100 times more, I would bet on Fedor every fight.
Huge mistake
That was a very big mistake. Fedor should have backed out of the guard as soon as Werdum started to move towards the triange .
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jun 29, 2010 5:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hey i predict that some time in the next 3 or 4 years Anderson Silva will lose a fight, and when it happens i’ll rush to post how i predicted it and how over rated he always was. Emelianenko went 10 years unbeaten, was the best heavyweight in Pride when their heavyweight division was the best in MMA, yes better even than the UFC, and beat the best strikers, wrestlers and grapplers of his day, but he eventually lost a fight so he’s obviously always been a hype job.
To me, the guy only went a few years unbeaten. Once you start cherry picking fights, it loses credibility.
by JeremyShane on Jun 29, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
The thing about it is Fedor beat those “cans” that were put in front of him, and in MMA it’s nearly impossible to have an unbeaten streak as impressive as his (especially in the HW division no less). He beat who he was supposed to beat, and his loss came against a top 10 opponent (can’t say the same thing for Anderson’s two losses and GSP’s loss to Serra).
Ugh
I have never seen anyone on this board call Fedor a “hype job.” In fact the two biggest arguments about Fedor on this site seem to be:
1) whether he is the best HW in the world, and
2) whether he is the best mixed martial artist of all time
Most of us who answer “no” to either of those questions still consider Fedor one of the top 2 or 3 best heavyweights in the world, and one of the 2 or 3 best fighters of all time. This isn’t a question of G.O.A.T. v. goat, it’s a question of whether he has remained too long at the apex of the sport based largely on past accomplishments.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Monte Fisto on Jun 29, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
tito ortiz said after the fedor arlovski fight
i can’t believe no one else has brought this up but this is a DIRECT QUOTE from tito ortiz when he was interviewing fedor after the arlovski fight
there’s always been questions from other promotions saying you weren’t the best heavyweight in the world. well tonight buddy you answered those questions you’ve tooken out two of the former ufc heavyweight champions and you are THE BEST heavyweight in my eyes and i believe everyone of these guys eyes around the world
at 5:54 is the quote
but i recommend watching the whole thing if you wanna get a good laugh at tito’s expense
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 11:59 AM EDT reply actions
at 7:17 seconds
in the video i posted the link to above he also says
the best pound for pound heavyweight in the world today fedor emelianenko
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 29, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do people listen to Tito
his words mean about as much as Dana White’s. I thought people have realized this by now.
no surprises there
Verbal diarrhea from Tito, and Florian and Miletich are spot on.
Fedor vs Tito would be comedy, even in Tito’s prime
long signatures are gay
Pat must have read my mind..
I just wonder who out of all those who are so critical of this man will stand in front of him when he stands back up?
Green Jacket, Gold Jacket, who gives a shit?
by Hendar on Jun 29, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If we’re going to go with that logic, then we should probably go ahead and shut down this and all other MMA message boards, because I seriously doubt that any of us would like to stand in front of even the lowliest Strikeforce gatekeeper.
Thankfully, it’s a ridiculous argument, and fans of the sport have every right to comment on the achievements of guys who could beat the crap out of them.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
he wasn't being literal
he meant to say that it’s easy to beat a man when he’s down..figuratively speaking.
long signatures are gay
I will.
At least I’ll get KO’d quick and wake up with the same headache I do pretty much everyday.
And then maybe Kid Nate or someone will write an article about my skills to build me into a credible opponent for Fedor.
Again, was not aware I possessed any to begin with.
Though I honestly would say anything I say online to someone’s face. I don’t think I say anything that badly about any fighter first of all, but if I did; I’m sure it would be a quick fight.
Although I hit my head on the ceiling fan yesterday and split my head open like Diego Sanchez vs BJ Penn. That sucked, I don’t think I want to get beat up by a fighter when I can’t even take an inanimate object.
They should have asked him
if he thought Fedor’s last “top win” was before or after Tito’s last actual win? The one against the old guy.
Kind of seems like the "No fighter bashing" rule ceases being a rule when it comes to Tito.
Based on the comments here.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
I agree with Pat.
An hour before Fedor lost everybody praised him and thought he was the greatest heavyweight in the world. As soon as he lost, those same people complained that he sucked and was never the best heavyweight in the first place.
It just goes to show that the majority of fans just ride on band wagons and don’t have a real opinion base.
Yup, Tito being an idiot in true form. What was Kenny’s excuse for his fight with Penn? It’s utterly ridiculous how you have a lot of ignorant people trying to discredit a fighter after one loss in nearly 10 years. The thing about it Fedor’s fighting style is entertaining as hell to watch and he always fights at his opponents’ strengths, and this time it came back to bite him. I imagine if it was Anderson fighting he would have continued to wave Werdum up and danced in the process. That’s one thing you have to love about Fedor; an undersized HW who takes it to his opponents.
Leave it to Tito...
According to Tito, one loss makes you “not one of the best HWs in the world”, huh? So Randy Coutrure, Minotauro Nogueria, et al. arent either? one loss makes you a “decent fighter overall” And where’s that leave you tito? You’ve lost three in a row buddy. I have an idea. Dana White, sign Fedor after his SF Contract is over, and put him up against Tito. See just how decent each really is.
Tito’s biggest accomplishment since losing th title, um… SEVEN years ago is banging Jenna Jameson.
It’s a topic that’s been beaten to death since Saturday night. Fedor made a technical error against one of the best Brazilian Ju Jitsu artists in the world. He’s human. Not a god, not the hellspawn of Rasputin. A human. A human who is one of the best MMA fighters of all time, and a loss will not deter from that
I like Fedor but I think the problem that most people have with him is the pedestal that he has been put on by his fans and I don’t mean by calling him an all time great or anything to do with his PAST accomplishments. There was a time when he WAS without a doubt the best heavy in the world. When he did his exhibition with Mousassi about a year ago I remember the announcer saying something to liking of “most experts agree that Lesnar wouldn’t survive the first round with Fedor” I remember thinking at the time “This is why some people hate Fedor” it’s not Fedor himself that they hate but the assumption that he would steam roll anyone and everyone by his fans becomes irritating. I was really disappointed when Fedor chose to sign with Strikeforce b/c mega-fights between him and Brock, AS, Carwin, Mir, Randy, etc. would have done nothing but help grow the sport……and I think the one thing that all of us can agree on is that could have only been a good thing.
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