Snapshot of the Day: Jan Finney After the Cris Cyborg Fight
by Nick Thomas on Jun 28, 2010 1:39 PM EDT
in MMA News
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Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker recently announced that Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos’ next title defense will come against Erin Toughill (10-2-1). The promoter did not announce an event for the fight, but did seem to indicate it would take place later this summer.
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That fight should of been stopped in the first round....
"Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit." -Mike Tyson
by mma is #1 on Jun 28, 2010 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
yes it should have
i was honestly disgusted that it wasnt and belive that ref doesn’t have any business in that ring, with that horrible shit show of reffing she put on
I could see it being stopped and I could see why it wasn't...
As one sised as it was, Finney was intelligently defending herself she just wasn’t doing a great job of it. Her corner should have thrown in the towel. (Can they still do that?)
i agree
i saw her intelligently defending herself. nothing wrong with that.
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on Jun 28, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya, your corner can still stop the fight.
by sadface on Jun 28, 2010 3:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Then I blame them for not throwing in the towel...
Finney was defending herself. even if she wasn’t doing a great job she was doing a good enough job to avoid repeated powerful blows in any one position.
APOLLO NOOOO!!!
THERE’S NO EASY WAY OUT….
by Body Triangle on Jun 28, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Too much testostrogen in Cyborg for any single woman to handle
But Finney did impress me with her unwillingness to give in.
I was in a room filled with drunken, blood thirsty savages, who, to a man, were screaming at the TV for this fight to be stopped after :30. How this bout was allowed by the CSAC is beyond me. Vegas had Finney at something like +2200.
You are all UFC plants.
Same
A couple of buddies and I were watching these fights. We were drunk and looking for blood. We wanted this match to end after the 2nd knockdown. After that it became extremely uncomfortable.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
Terrible Ref
I hope she’s never allowed to ref again.
I think Toughill will be the one to beat Cyborg
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
This is the 3rd fight I've seen her ref
and I thought she did a creditable job.
It was a mismatch, but Finney hung tough and was active, she didn’t turtle up till the 2nd round.
Maybe I need to re-watch the fight, but I’m really surprised at the reaction on BE toward the fight and the ref.
It's everywhere
When a guy does it he has heart and fought like a warrior, but for a woman the towel should have been thrown in. It’s pretty depressing that this is still happening in 2010. She kept kicking, hammerfisting and tying up Cris’ leg till the end.
by asa on Jun 28, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If it had been a guy, i still would of liked to of seen the fight ended in the 1st. round.
"Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit." -Mike Tyson
In theory
Guys are given a pass int he same situation all the time. Being helpless to stop a takedown while getting pummeled and trying to fight back, even feebly. Rothwell got smashed fugly by Cain, but because he couldn’t end the fight Rothwell is considered a champ for writhing around on the ground while taking punishment. He also even got up a couple of times. The main difference seems to be Finney using the passive Jits while Rothwell tried to wrestle out.
But I can see why guys get nervous. Oh well.
Your Rothwell comparison doesn’t work for me. Cain was clearly the better fighter, but at no time in the fight did I think Ben’s well being was at stake. Jan was getting smashed all over the cage by a larger fighter. No matter the gender, it was pretty tough to watch someone get their ass kicked like that.
And, to suggest that guys can’t think of Jan as a warrior is insane. Nearly every comment I saw before the fight was of people saying exactly that. She’s got tons of heart to step in the cage against Cyborg. She took a beating and never quit.
by sadface on Jun 28, 2010 3:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Doesn't matter
Fighter safety comes first, and Finney couldve hugged Cyborgs leg the whole time but it still was unsafe for her to continue in the fight.
Whats depressing is that people are so afraid of being labeled as misogynistic “in 2010 omgz” that they are willing to call into question a common sense approach to fighter safety.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Guys are given the chance to make a comeback
But women are not. And there is no “omgz” or other such childishness in my post.
Whats childish
Is that youre projecting some kind of cultural sin we aren’t even guilty of on to us because we are advocating fighter safety. That fight wouldve been stopped for most men, and if it hadn’t, there’d be a public outcry just the same.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
I don't think you're guilty of any 'sin' man
If you’re outraged about the fight that’s good, but please avoid the personal attacks as I had nothing to do with it and am only guilty of having a different opinion than you. We can agree to disagree, even on the internet.
by asa on Jun 28, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was watching it and at the end of the first round I was like “please make it stop!!” but the girl didn’t tapped, she was defending herself. No doubt in my mind that a dude referee would have stopped the fight (let’s call it the white knight syndrome). And also no doubt in my mind many fighters would have tapped in the second. So props to finney.
I can see why it wasn’t stop, but we have seen so much fight stopped for a lot less than this…
I'm a lover not a fighter
This fight was a round and a half to fucking long. It should have been stopped after she was knocked down the 2nd time. She took WAY to much damage.
Your style's like garbage cans meant to be taken out on a weekly basis
Ever since your first record you've been in a state of suspended animation
You look like Snuffleuffagus and Australopithecus
Me cray, you abacus
I’ve not really been for or against female MMA up until seeing that fight and this picture. I just can’t watch it. I have a ton of respect for both Finnley and Cyborg but I felt like I was doing something wrong just watching that match.
Ubereem is here to kill the Finkelstein monster!
I had similar feelings, but I think it's about the way gender is dealt with in our culture
not so much about the fight.
I really don’t think many of us would have had that reaction if it were Chuck and Wanderlei in there.
As men, we’re uncomfortable with women fighting.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
speak for yourself
Im not a women’s MMA fan, but not simply because theyre women. The level of competition is just no where near what it is in mens.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
I hear ya
It’s like the difference between watching the NBA versus the WNBA.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
Not me
I had no problem watching it whatsoever, and I had no problem with the stoppage. If she’s still defending herself and not unconscious, let her keep trying.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 28, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow - gender differences, perhaps?
I thought Finney kept fighting and hanging on through the first round and looked tough, way tougher than I would have expected.
Yeah, in the 2nd round I could have seen it being stopped earlier, but not in the 1st. It was close, but she was still fighting and lucid.
The big question: would you all have felt the same way if it had been two male fighters?
by Django Z on Jun 28, 2010 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
If it was two male fighters
At the same weigh class, the damage couldve been worse just because the disparity between Torres’ punching power and Cyborgs is probably greater than that between Jan Finney’s head someone like… idk Manny Tapia.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
I didnt necessarily even mean that
I can definitely picture the exact same fight playing out in Men’s MMA, just with a semi concious braindead man instead of a semiconcious facially reconstructed woman.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
absolutley
as mentioned before fighters health = first and she was being DOMINATED in the first minute of the fight.. horrible ref
Agreed. She wasn’t taking the type of finishing damage needed to stop the fight. Cyborg kept shaking her with big punches standing, but when she went down couldn’t finish. Part of the reason was that she was turtling and hot presenting any legal area to strike which is when I would stop the fight personally. But outside of that it wasn’t as bad as everyone is trying to make out, I think it was because it was women fighting this time. Personally I don’t like women’s mma b/c it causes this reaction in my regardless of the level of beat down. But if it’s going to exist, get used to seeing the same stuff going on as you see in men’s matches.
And let’s not forget her own corner could have stopped the fight anytime.
by JeremyShane on Jun 28, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This isn't a reflection on women's MMA
Other than there is very little depth in its ranks.
This is mainly a reflection on an absolutely abysmal referee who should never be allowed to officiate and MMA match, high school wrestling match or pop warner football game ever again in her life.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Fire this ref!
Also what was with her asking Cyborg if she wanted Jan up the moment cyborg would stand up over Jan? What was that about? That was pissing me off.
yeah u guys think fight should have been stopped but finney kept moving and wanted to fight, if finney wanted it stopped then all she had to do was turn away and cover up so it would be horrible for the ref to have stopped the fight as she kept trying to defend, i say good job by the ref, i am not a fan of women fighting, i dont think its good for a woman to be scarring up her face but whatever, thats what they want
by Hades on Jun 28, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you except for the scarring. It isn’t good for a woman to be scarring up her face? Is it good for a man to do so? Who’s to say so? It’s what they choose to do, so it doesn’t matter. It should be none of your concern.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 28, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
No problem with the stoppage here. It’s not Kim Winslow’s fault that Strikeforce put together a complete mismatch of a title fight.
Also, stoppage aside, I thought Winslow did a fine job. She was vigilant about Cyborg holding the fence when they clinched along the cage, told Finney to notify her if Cyborg was hitting her in the back of the head after she deducted the point, and was proactive in asking Cyborg if she wanted Finney to stand up instead of letting the fight stall out as Cyborg stood over her.
by Chris Nelson on Jun 28, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If people really need to assign blame, direct it at Jan Finney’s corner for not throwing in the towel.
Okay, I’m done, Gus.
by Chris Nelson on Jun 28, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This
I’ve had time to digest the fight. I get that most fighters subscribe to the whole “Come home with your shield or on it.” mentality, but somethings gotta give.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
I direct it at both
Everyone – from the commission on down – failed to protect Jan Finney.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 28, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Jan Finney failed to protect Jan Finney
Also everyone in that arena failed to protect Jan Finney. Everyone should have rushed the cage to stop the half man half woman half bearpig from slaughtering finney.
by Body Triangle on Jun 28, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
and was proactive in asking Cyborg if she wanted Finney to stand up instead of letting the fight stall out as Cyborg stood over her
I just found this annoying – if a fighter wants someone up they’ll move back, the ref shouldn’t force it as soon as a fighter hits the ground.
I liked that she was asking if she wanted her up. That is one of the most boring stall positions in MMA. Either engage and try to pass their guard / enter it, or let them back up. I hate when a fighter just stands over the other person for over a minute with weak kicks to the legs every now and then. Maybe she should have waited a few seconds longer, but I wish other refs were as proactive about keeping the action going.
by IWillPartyHard on Jun 28, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Jordan Breen made a great point on Beatdown after the Bell. Why is covering your face with your hands when your standing up a good defense but as soon as your horizantal its not an intelligent defense?
When you’re standing you can move away or clinch after blocking a few of the strikes. When someone is turtling on the ground there’s generally no escape and they just continue to get punched in the head.
especially when you're not turtled up
and you cover up. Your head gets smashed in the front, and the momentum keeps the head going into the canvas. brutal, but its the truf.
by Body Triangle on Jun 28, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is throwing hands when standing a good idea
but throwing hands when your on your back mounted a bad idea? Its a pretty silly point really. The mechanics of both the defender and the offender are completely different once the fight goes to the ground.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
by troy145 on Jun 28, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree. It was an idiotic point. As was said above, you can’t move away when you’re on your back.
by sadface on Jun 28, 2010 5:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Anyone else else spend most of this fight wishing soccer kicks were legal?
The fight would have been stopped a whole lot earlier if Cyborg had been able to kick Finney in the head the first time she tried to hold on to her ankle.
by simpsycho on Jun 28, 2010 2:46 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
She ain’t pretty no more
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m pretty sure her ass survived unscathed. I plan on investigating more thoroughly at my first convenience.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 28, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
suspended due to "Facial Injuries"
very ambiguous.
by Body Triangle on Jun 28, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
raging bull reference. but yeah, her bootay was juicy
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
That ref should not only be fired, but brought up on charges for criminal negligence - similar to the way a police officer or construction officer would if their negligence on the job put someone in grave danger.
MRIs have proven that my brain is in the shape of an octagon.
no she shouldn't, that's just silly alarmist talk
also the commies are invading tomorrow.
Also global warming will destroy the earth in the next 10 minutes.
Also Jim Henson has resurrected and is now Zombie Henson, and he’s coming for you.
by Body Triangle on Jun 28, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is FIGHTING. Mismatch or no (okay, it was a mismatch) Finney and Santos stepped into the cage intending to inflict physical harm on each other. This is nothing like a construction worker being charged with criminal negligence. Those two fighters were going at each other with malice aforethought – it wasn’t an accident or an oversight. The referee might have made a questionable decision as to when to stop the fight, but there’s nothing criminal here.
As an afterthought – is there a female MMA fighter in the world that isn’t a mismatch vs. Cris Cyborg?
You don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Jun 28, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, it is fighting. But with rules. The referee is there to enforce the rules. The rules are in place to protect the fighters. This referee let Finney get hit in the head several times – many, many times by even the most conservative estimate – well beyond the point at which she was able to intelligently defend herself. Somehow being able to endure the impact without losing consciousness is not a defense. Anyone of those punches, or their cumulative effect, could have caused permanent brain damage. Therefore, the ref was negligent.
MRIs have proven that my brain is in the shape of an octagon.
Jan Finney = the best chin in female mma?
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Jun 28, 2010 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
At the very least she’s a serious contender for Most Heart.
You don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Jun 28, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jan Finney= Phil Baroni
Punching bags.
by Body Triangle on Jun 28, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
For all of you calling for Winslow to be fired
Lets not forget about Tan Dan letting Mir get his head bludgeoned into the mat at UFC 111. Or Yves Lavigne stopping and restarting the Brown vs. Sell fight, only to have Pete Sell wonder around the ring visibly unfit to continue prompting Matt Brown to call for a stoppage. Should she be fired? No. Once you get past the knee jerk reaction of the “attractive” female getting lambasted by an adversary that is far beyond her skill level…..Winslow was actually within protocol.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jun 28, 2010 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
yep. 100% so.
but yeah the lavigne one was retarded.
by Body Triangle on Jun 28, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Jesus, Dan
Nobody likes Frank, but come the fuck on.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 28, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Frank said himself that he liked that stoppage.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 28, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
In that case, yes. I doubt many losing fighters would say that they wished their fight was stopped sooner after months of training and preparation.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 28, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
No fighter
is going to bitch about a late stoppage. It looks bad to other fighters and makes refs quicker to pull the trigger.
If you ask a fighter, they’ll say “let the guy kill me.” That is – wait for it – why we have refs to make that call.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 28, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So incompetence should be tolerated because its so widespread?
I know thats how it works in American government, but this is MMA, people!!
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Never said that.
I’m just trying to put things into perspective. People are acting like someone was killed in the cage on Saturday. Finney Turtled up leaving very little to hit, much like Faber did when he took that beating from Aldo. The Carano stoppage was more warranted than this one. Gina sat there in fetal position doing fuck all. Finney was still trying to defend herself.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Gina sat there in fetal position doing fuck all. Finney was still trying to defend herself.
Wrong
Gina was still defending herself. Only about two of Cyborg’s punches got through.
to be honest, they were both doing fuck all
come on
by Body Triangle on Jun 28, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
She still defending herself, which you said she wasn’t doing. That GnP only last for like 2 secs. Finney was in a fetal position the almost the whole fight.
FYI, I’m not saying that the Carano stoppage was bad.
This is what I meant.
An arm over the head is basic human defensive instinct, but she wasn’t fighting back at all.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
2 seconds? Niet
She just laid there and took it.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Tan Dan and Slim Kim
Absolutely had to stop these fights much earlier than they actually did. For Dan he had it much easier to stop it because Mir was face down eating shot after shot. Finney was defending herself but she was still taking punishment and got knocked down 5 times.
In both fights some serious blows to the head were taken in rapid succession and that should be kept to a minimum at all times.
Finney is tough, but for her own sake the fight should’ve been stopped in the 1st.
"Fedor is in major trouble! FEDOR TAPS! FEDOR TAPS! FABRICIO WERDUM WINS BY SUBMISSION (TRIANGLE CHOKE), ROUND 1!" - Brent Brookhouse, BloodyElbow.com
Everybody who bitches about this stoppage and thinks gender has nothing to do with it
should never watch a Sakuraba fight. Or Fujita for that matter.
And lord help you if you fall into the overlap between the outrage crew here and people calling the Kampmann vs. Daley stoppage “early.”
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jun 28, 2010 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Pride was a completely different matter
Somebody brought up soccer kicks earlier in this thread and got scoffed at.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Both Finney and Cyborg made it difficult for the ref to decide when to stop the fight.
Each time Jan got up after being beaten on the ground, she CHOSE to trade with Cyborg. She actively defended herself on the ground, but left herself open standing up.
Cyborg landed some nasty bombs while standing, but (somewhat) relented on the ground. It would have been more merciful if Cyborg established mount and attempted GnP, giving the ref a clear indication that the fight is done.
On a side note, that last knee by Cyborg was one for the ages. You could see the will to fight being drained from Finney’s eyes in slow motion.
thanks...
Some people like to choke their chickens, I like to choke my goat.
and IMO, I am the GOAT at goat choking.
by Goat choker 1 on Jun 28, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i'm just getting into it
but i’ve been going to some forums and they all call me a noob for not knowing when you won the ultimate goatchoking championship. whatever just trying to learn the sport man
by Body Triangle on Jun 28, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks...
Some people like to choke their chickens, I like to choke my goat.
and IMO, I am the GOAT at goat choking.
This is why we can't have nice things.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Jun 28, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kid Nate is the reason we can’t have nice things.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 28, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
For the people bitching
About us complaining about this being a late stoppage only because they are women. Get over yourselves.
This was like the Matt Brown vs Pete Sell fight, except worse. Finney’s only defense on the ground was to turn her head and cover her ears with her hands so that Cyborg was forced to strike the back of her head. At that point, the fight should have been stopped.
follow me twitter.com/GotaHemmi
by Brian Hemminger on Jun 28, 2010 4:32 PM EDT reply actions
How about less dumb insults and more smart gifs
“get over yourselves”??
I haven’t had an opportunity to re-watch the fight. How about posting some animated gifs so we can all see the points where the fight should have been stopped earlier.
It certainly was a mis-match and Jan took alot of punishment, but watching it live I didn’t think it should have been stopped until the point when it was.
Evidence or GTFO.
Cyborg is an incredible fighter
And it may seem bleak now, where woman’s MMA is in its infantile stages, but the competition will grow. Cyborg looks to remain dominant for a very long time, but eventually someone will be driven enough to become better. We’ll find out. I’m definitely not against women’s MMA
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