Leading Up to Brock Lesnar: The Four Professional Wrestlers Who Made the UFC
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 28, 2010 12:01 PM EDT
in MMA History
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Brock Lesnar exploded like a super nova, quickly becoming the UFC's biggest star with his combination of charismatic presence, brutal fighting style, and immense size. Star quality is an intangible you can't teach or even predict-you just know it when you see it. Lesnar has it in spades. In the WWE, he went from his undercard debut to winning the world title from the Rock in a matter of months.
There was something special about the mammoth Minnesota mauler, something that translated immediately to the Octagon. But Lesnar wasn't the first professional wrestler to create a stir in MMA, or even in the UFC. Wrestlers were involved in some of the sport's most amazing moments, long before Lesnar ever thought about laying the smackdown in cage.
From the very first fight in the Octagon, when Dutch pro wrestler Gerard Gordeau kicked Teila Tuili's teeth across press row, professional wrestlers made the engine of the UFC run. After focusing for the first two shows on determining which was the top martial art in a reality combat situation (spoiler alert, it was Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) Semaphore Entertainment Group realized what Vince McMahon already knew: personalities sell. Four men stood above their contemporaries as the most entertaining fighters of the UFC's formative years.
Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, Don Frye, and Tank Abbott were among the top fighters of their era, but saw their MMA careers cut short when the all mighty dollar helped big time wrestling lure them away from the Octagon. The UFC was under intense pressure from politicians and cable companies at the time, struggling to make ends meet. Today the UFC takes home tens of millions a month-and fighters still aren't getting rich for the most part. Imagine how tight money was in an era that saw the UFC fall off of PPV? Pro wrestling, in the same era, was at an all-time peak and had plenty of money to toss at these real life warriors. At Cageside Seats I look at these four titans of the sport, including the top draw of the SEG era UFC.
Before Lesnar, Liddell, and Georges St. Pierre, Ken Shamrock was the biggest star in UFC history. Shamrock was a veteran of the independent scene, wrestling in the southeast with future stars like Dean Malenko and The Nasty Boys, but it was his experience with the Japanese "Shootstyle" promotions that led him into MMA. Shamrock's Adonis like physique and quiet confidence made him a comfortable presence in a new sport that in every other way was flipping combat sports upside down.
It wasn't until Shamrock's return from a stint in McMahon's WWF that he really amped his promotional efforts up to eleven. This new Shamrock engaged in some amazing prefight histrionics with Don Frye and Tito Ortiz and helped revolutionize MMA a second time in the Zuffa era.
Today the tables have turned. Wrestling is struggling and many of its stars are bailing out for bigger opportunities in the cage. But in the pioneer era, our favorite fighters had to stop working on their standup to concentrate instead on their vaudeville. Check out Cageside Seats for a couple of classic matches and Tank Abbott in a wacky skit.
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I wonder if Tito should be considered one of the “professional wrestlers” who made the UFC.
I know he wasn’t one by trade, but his larger than life personality. Fight hyping entrance shirts and inteerviews all took elements of professional wrestling and made them a partof MMA. Fighters could still take notes from Ortiz on how to make the fans care.
Well, they both have neck problems, but that’s pretty much where the similarities end.
by CaptnAmerca on Jun 28, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nah
Rebel against the boss
Middle fingers
Act like they don’t care if the fans like them, but deep down they really do
Long periods of inactivity
Blonde bimbo wives
Arrested for domestic violence
And that’s off the top of my head.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 28, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Ortiz was actually in TNA for a minute, I think
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHAHA
Truck’s on point today..
Touche’ my good friend…
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on Jun 28, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent.
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah he refereed a Jeff Jarrett match.
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokojanuse Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
by RagingNoodles on Jun 28, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
did he get hit over the head with a guitar?
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t remember, I don’t think I actually watched it. All I remember is reading Dave Meltzer’s newsletter about how Dave was all upset saying TNA was using Tito Ortiz all wrong and that apparently Tito made Jarrett and I think AJ Styles look small in comparison.
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokojanuse Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
by RagingNoodles on Jun 28, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot funnier in wrestling than in real life...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_Jzy97Uu7Y
I mean when a comedian can’t smash a heckler over the head with a guitar and generate a laugh…
IIRC
I think Jarrett was trying to cheat and Tito wouldn’t let him, Jarrett tried to bow up and Tito KO’d him with one punch.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 28, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw an interview with Kurt Angle saying he wanted to go to the UFC. He can’t cause unlike Strikeforce, they won’t let him wrestle and fight at the same time, and he refuses to go the SF route. It’ll probably never happen, but if it did, wouldn’t he be the highest pedigreed wrestler in MMA? Lesnar’s got cred but “The 1996 Olympic Gold Medalist?” What tops that?
there have been other gold medal olympians in MMA
notably Kevin Jackson and Rulon Gardner and Mark Schultz.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
No..
But unlike the “pro wrestling circut”.. the real fighting requires lengthy medical screenings to get a license.. In which case, Angle would not pass…
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on Jun 28, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL..
Epic Fail on my part…. !!!!
Please forgive !
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
But unlike the "pro wrestling circut".. the real fighting requires lengthy medical screenings to get a license.. In which case, Angle would not pass…
Don’t believe the hype.
Pre-fight medical screenings are a joke. Look no further than the Matt Hamill incident on the TUF finale. The commissions employ sycophantic doctors who will clear just about anyone with a pulse. They want to make sure those big fat checks from the promoter keep coming.
Fair enough..
But I don’t believe the screening is as strict against staph as it is for head and neck injuries..
Diego fought Kos in their second fight with a worse staph outbreak than that and the doctors didn’t do much about it (pre screen). I chalk that up to the level of “severity” not being as risky as a head or neck injury..
Broken bones, lacerations, infections, etc.. Those can all be “overlooked” with financial incentive.. Major long-term injury risks.. not so likely.. The commission and doctors would both be facing HUGE lawsuits baring permanent injury from their turning a “blind cheek”..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
henry cejudo
i know he’s been training mixed martial arts at american top team in florida
i remember reading a quote where he was saying he would be having his first mixed martial arts match in japan at some point in 2010
has anyone heard anything about whether or not this is going to come to fruition?
if so he’ll probably be one of if not the most decorated wrestler in mixed martial arts
and the kid is still young
2006
ASICS National High School Wrestler of the Year
Second in Junior World Championships
FILA Junior World Team Trials champion
Pan American Championships gold medalist
Second in U.S. World Team Trials
U.S. Nationals champion
2007
Pan American Games gold medalist
U.S. World Team Trials champion
DNP in World Championships
U.S. Nationals champion
Fifth in Kiev International
Second in Takhti Cup (Iran)
Third in Ivan Yarygin International (Russia)
2008
Olympic gold medalist – youngest Olympic wrestling champion in U.S. history
Pan American Championships gold medalist
Second in U.S. Nationals
U.S. Olympic Team Trials champion
Additional Wrestling Accolades
Four-time state champion (two in Arizona, two in Colorado).
Two-time ASICS High School First Team member
First high-school wrestler to win U.S. Nationals since USA Wrestling became the sport’s national governing body in 1983
Nationally ranked number one at 125 pounds by Wrestling International News magazine
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I read somewhere
he found out how little money was being made and walked away.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
makes sense
that’s a shame
but the kids young so who knows
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
but apparently the kid has real boxing talent too
he’s also considering boxing as well as mixed martial arts
he’s one of those guys that comes along every so often that is so full of talent and is so driven
and he’s got the advantage of vigor of youth on his side
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant currently…but Jonathan Willis answered my question it seems.
by BurtBacharach on Jun 28, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
nope i suck
mr. kid nate cleared it up
but if he had went throught with his aspirations then he would have been
it’s a shame the pay scale isn’t higher in this great sport to make it more lucrative to amazing talents like this cejudo
but that’s a discussion for another time
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Nationally ranked number one at 125 pounds by Wrestling International News magazine
It’s a shame but you can’t blame him if that’s his fighting weight…not a lot of money there. Serious credentials though.
by BurtBacharach on Jun 28, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s saying that he’s not decided yet
here’s a youtube video of faber doing a lil interview with him he says he will eventually fight in mixed martial arts but that he’s also considering boxing
apparently USA Wrestling announced it will award gold medalists at the London Games with $100,000. Silver medalists can earn $50,000, while $25,000 will be given to bronze winners. they are offering this as an incentive to keep him around for the 2012 olympics
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Kurt angle is full of shit, he’s never getting into mma, lesnar said it best, he’s a talker.
though Ricco rodriguiz did mention one time that Sean waltman told him about a time after a house show lesnar and angle decided to wrestle legit, with all the other wrestlers watching and angle took him down 4 times to zero.
by kanodogg on Jun 28, 2010 1:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I could believe that. Not anymore though. Too much age difference and Brock’s been training for real now, plus all the neck surgeries.
by BurtBacharach on Jun 28, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Monday, Schultz, Jackson, Gardner, Ibrahim all beat him to it.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 28, 2010 1:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wait, I thought Gerard Gordeau was just a savate kickboxer turned mma fighter? I had no idea he was a pro wrassler.
"If your going to come on then come on!" - Harold Howard
I was thinking the same thing.
I don’t know if Gordeau was ever involved with Pro Wrestling. He is definitely a former Champion in Savate. But, again, maybe I’m wrong and just not able to find any evidence of him pro wrestling before or after his foray into MMA.
Come to think of it, I would appreciate clarification on this issue, from the author of this article.
I'd trust Snowden on this..
Dude’s library is DEEEEP…
It may be a mistype, or typo.. But I’m confident he knows his shit..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I trust no one. Now, I really want a reference.
Referring to Gerard Gordeau as a “pro wrestler” was a pretty big red flag.
OK, he participated in Japan Pro wrestling Org's a couple times, years after his
MMA career. Strange stuff. Akebono? Oh, and the article is a little misleading.
This is incorrect. He was wrestling years before pancrase or UFC.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 28, 2010 1:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Gordeau wrestled for the UWF and RINGS years before the UFC even existed.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 28, 2010 1:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just to back up Snowden, Steve Yohe wrote the results to every Fighting Network RINGS show at one point, and Gordeau is listed as working there as a pro wrestler in 1991 and 1992.
http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1076&highlight=rings
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokojanuse Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
by RagingNoodles on Jun 28, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
it's a tiny bit deceptive though
since Gordeau was one of the Dutch fighters that Maeda brought in in an effort to make RINGS more real and beef up the kickboxing training at his gyms.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
NO
He did worked matches back in the 1980’s. He was shooting about as much as Maeda, i.e, not at all.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 28, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
i know he was a worker
but Maeda was bringing in those dutch guys because of the obsession with becoming ever more stiff and closer to shoot style.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
The Ken Shamrock appreciation thread
Not only was a great fighter, whose talents are unfairly underrated by fans that remember him from his post-Zuffa run. after he returned to the sport on the wrong side of forty and with the wear and tear that several years of pro wrestling will do to you (and never mind the drugs and lifestyle that goes with it). He also probably saved the UFC. Before he returned the UFC was selling 45,000 ppvs an event. His return fight with Tito sold 150,000. And his next bout with Kimo sold 110,000. In addition, he also made Tito a star who, by beating the most dangerous man on the planet, could now sell 100,000 ppvs, And both Chuck and Randy become draws only after they beat the guy who beat Shamrock. And if we are to believe Dana and the Fertittas when they claim that they were that close to closing the doors before TUF, then we got to thank Shamrock. Without whom they might never have survived long enough or might not have had the numbers to even get a spot on Spike.
by John Nash on Jun 28, 2010 12:26 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
all very good points.
I agree, i think that Ken is by far the best known crossover name.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jun 28, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree 100% with this post. The current crop and the TUFers before them only know Ken’s losses to Tito. The idiocy in the Ken Shamrock hate is blatantly obvious.
by RyannVonDoom on Jun 28, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
rec’d
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's not forget his wrestling accomplishments either
He found Stephanie McMahon in the boiler room.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 28, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
lets not forget my personal favorite pro wrestling to mixed martial arts crossover athlete the gracie hunter himself kazushi sakuraba.
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 12:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
For real!
Can’t believe that Saku – probably the most successful pro wrestler turned MMA fighter ever – has been overlooked
B-A-K-A-S-U-R-V-I-V-O-R
He didn't get overlooked
The title says “made the UFC” and not “made MMA.” Saku fought in the UFC, but his major role in MMA was played in building the sport in Japan
by mma_critic on Jun 28, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah this post is more about MMA fighters
who moved to pro-wrestling than the reverse.
If you click the link at the top of the post there’s a piece about Saku.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
awesome
makes perfect sense
thanks for the link
love me some saku
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember an interview with Ken following Tanks loss to Severn in the Ultimate Ultimate that was classic. Tank had said something about Shamrock being boring and you could just see some switch turning in Ken’s brain and the rage building. The dude had some serious anger issues.
aka he feasted on horse meat
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jun 28, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Death in MMA
Hi all, I know this is completely unrelated, but I wanted to get this info out asap. I am hearing from some of my MMA friends in south Carolina that there may have been a MMA related death. The fighters name is Michael Kirkham and he fought this weekend in South Carolina. I’m on my phone, and can’t research it’s validity yet, but they are saying that he passed away this morning from injuries sustained during his fight. He also has a facebook page that has well wishes and condolences posted on it. Sorry to post in an unrelated story.
by OKfighter on Jun 28, 2010 12:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
here’s a link to his mma record
looking for info regarding his death
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
His facebook is
Under the name Michael tree kirkham. This doesn’t look good.
by OKfighter on Jun 28, 2010 1:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
wow
I actually saw that guy fight in Sterling.
disregard that link i don’t think it’s accurate
this is from his facebook someone posted it on his wall sunday
So i need everyones prayers for Michael Tree Kirkham he was severly injured in a mma fight tonite in south car. please pray for him he has severe bleeding in the brain and on a machine to breathe and keeping his heart beating! PLEASE, PLEASE pray for him!!!!!!!
apparently it was his first pro fight
he was the worlds only 6’9 155 lb’er
and shouldn’t have been fighting according to his wife
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be all hearsay but...
FWIW, there’s a thread on the UG about it. One poster claims to have been there and says it wasn’t the refs fault, he stopped it as soon as it happened (knee to the head)? Another says that the only medial exam he took was an eye one, which is pretty disgraceful in a sanctioned fight.
by BurtBacharach on Jun 28, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks legit
Posted by one of the pros… http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&forum=1&thread=1664014&page=2
I figure I should drop in and say a little here. I drove him down to the fights and cornered him. I’m also good friends with the matchmaker of the event. The ending of the fight actually occurred right by our corner so I saw everything that went on. He was taken down, mounted, and his opponent landed some hard shots. The ref stepped in and stopped it. It was a good stoppage, definitely not late. He was out and medical personnel had trouble getting him conscious so he was taken away in an ambulance. RIP Michael Kirkham. My thoughts and prayers go out to his family. I only met him for a short time, but he seemed like a geniunely nice guy and it’s always horrible to see someone go so young.
by mma_critic on Jun 28, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
we have guys that follow the scene in SC
I’ll check it out
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The title is a bit misleading, since I don’t think all of them were pro wrestlers before doing MMA. It’s closer to, “Four guys who made the UFC and then became pro wrestlers,” even though that’s not accurate since Ken was doing pro wrestling before.
by mma_critic on Jun 28, 2010 12:57 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t think the article stipulated at what point they were wrestlers, it was more that their drawing power in wrestling contributed to their star power in MMA.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jun 28, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Ken Shamrock was already a well established name before he crossed over.
I think the title leads people to think he wasn’t a star at all,until he crossed over. Hence the term, “Misleading”.
Exactly
At least in the US, it was Shamrock, Severn, and Abbott’s drawing power in MMA (or at least notoriety) that contributed to their star power in pro wrestling.
by mma_critic on Jun 28, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Did Dan Severn start doing MMA or pro wrestling first?
I know he was doing both at the same time but I’m not sure which one came first.
I'm not sure
I checked Wikipedia hoping for an answer, but the closest I can find is that he was in the UFC in 1994 and was pro wrestling in NWA in 1995. It also mentions UWF in Japan, which ran 1991-1996, so it’s possible he got involved there before doing MMA. That wouldn’t be surprising, since UWF is known as one of those pre-MMA, shoot wrestling organizations.
by mma_critic on Jun 28, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Pro wrestling first for Shamrock and Severn.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 28, 2010 1:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks!
I knew Ken did pro wrestling in Japan (for UWF) before the UFC. Just checked and noticed he did a bit of time in US indys before that. Wasn’t sure about Severn.
On a related note, do you know how popular either was as a pro wrestler before they did MMA?
I can imagine Ken might have had some fame in Japanese pro wrestling before going to Pancrase and the UFC, though his obvious big pay days came when he went to the WWE / WWF (whichever one it was back then).
Did Severn have much (or any) fame as a pro wrestler before doing MMA?
by mma_critic on Jun 28, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I know Ken was very popular in Japanese Wrestling prior to his UFC debut..
Not to sure about Severn..
Snowden ??
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Shamrock was a potential shootstyle star but hadn’t caught on like Volk Han or Gary Albright did. Severn was an opener/midcarder. He was usually the lesser half of a gaijin team. You can see one of his UWFI matches at the Cageside Seats link!
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 28, 2010 2:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you truly are one smart dude when it comes to mixed martial arts
i normally as a rule of thumb don’t care much for people named jonathan
but i’ll make an exception for you
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
really? that's awesome
did he have head with him?
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
That's crazy
Half of Mick Foley’s first book are gay jokes directed at Al Snow.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 28, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
To this day, Dan Severn had my favourite WWF walkout music.
I have no idea what it was, and I haven’t found it anywhere since, but I remember loving it.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
As I typed that, it occurred to me that I hadn’t looked for that walkout music in the YouTube era.
20 seconds later, I found it.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I agree
That shit is BOSS.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 28, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I always thought Shamrock had cool walk out music too. Here is that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZUwwZmLAes&feature=related
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
kinda off subject
but has anyone else notice how much more friendly and courteous people are on here during the day as opposed to at night?
seems like the discussions are much more down to earth and informative during the day
in the evening there seems to be a lot more people trying to be rude instead of informative and friendly
much more enjoyable when we all get along
props to everyone for being so friendly and informative
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If they’d change that whole no alcohol at work thing the page might be simliar day or night.
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
by DayGeaux on Jun 28, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
LOL..
Rec’d for truth !
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
dude
i don’t literally laugh out loud often at things i read online
but you just officially made my day
very witty answer
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 28, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to discredit your theory here but...
Do you know the difference between anabolic, androgenic, and diuretic ??
He could easily have been using diuretics to cut while avoiding “steroids”.. HGH isn’t even labeled a “steroid”.. It has zero anabolic properties or ability to convert protein synthesis.. It’s more in line with a “pro-hormone” than a steroid..
I’m no chemist but I know quite bit about steroids and cutting agents.. They’re not all one in the same..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I've seen guys use B6 injections for cutting in the way that anemic people get B12 to gain weight..
Pharm grade B6 in concentrated doses can also lower the effects of gyno and other post steroidal problems.. It’s also a natural cutting agent…
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I highly doubt Brock did steroids.
I wasn’t a naivete when it comes to the drug use in Pro Wrestling, but in Brock’s case, I’d be shocked that he used them. What you see is a combination of tanning, diuretics, and bodybuilding weightlifting as opposed to the type of lifting he does now.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 28, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Gerard Gordeau was a pro wrestler? Where did you find that info? All I found was a bunch of info on his Savate (French Kickboxing) background. And he was dirty as shit.
(He is again remembered for his illegal and intentional eye-gouge of Yuki Nakai in the 1995 Japan Vale Tudo. Nakai went on to beat Gordeau by submission, but lost sight in his right eye from the gouge.)
USMC vet. MMA nut. Frank Shamrock did his own voice over.....how funny is that?
Pain don't hurt...
Snowden wrote the book on old school MMA
literally so i trust him these things.
on anything else? god no.
;)
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 28, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that’s not good enough, I want his sources!!!!!
I’m not trying to be a dick, I just wanna know where he found Gordeau as a pro wrestler. As far as I can tell, he was a pure striker.
USMC vet. MMA nut. Rousimar Palhares is a dirty fighter.
Pain don't hurt...
Well it could be that he literally owns the entire back catalogue of RINGS on video..
Snowden is legit..
His video library alone is something that the Library of Congress may try to swipe off him when MMA goes into their history books.. lol
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
that’s pretty cool
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It's cool..
…until you realize it is just a succession of men dropping their pants.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 28, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s not cool about that, Jonathan?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 28, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nothing if you just pretend it is the world’s biggest bachlorette party.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 28, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
They all juice
But I don’t blame them. imagine the wear and tear on your body from doing a minimum of 40 shows a year. For every 10 minute match you get a 40 minute war at a PPV event. I used to see all the ECW wrestlers at the World’s Gym in Philadelphia, and the WCW and WWF guys would stop in when they were in town. Some of those guys had difficulty just walking around. But you’ve got a dick for a boss and 12 guys waiting to take your spot in the orginization, so you do what you have to do to make it in the ring every week. Nothing wrong with that.
by Ironbuddha on Jun 28, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For the Doubters...
Because writing two books about the history of the sport isn’t enough to earn your trust…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_FrHN05Y34
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 28, 2010 7:03 PM EDT reply actions
Severn was an accomplished amatuer wrestler just like Brock was. Sakuraba was also a good amatuer wrestler who picked up excellent submission skills, Don Frye was another guy with legit wrestling credentials. Instead of focusing on their enterainment wrestling backgrounds, let’s concentrate more on how their legit credentials helped them in MMA.
Too many people get so caught up in the fact the Brock did the entertainment wresting for a few years that completely disregard that he was the best heavyweight college wrestler in 2000, winning an NCAA D1 title. The prior year he almost won another championship, Brock could’ve made the national and olympic teams if he would’ve pursued it, he was that good, finishing with a 106-5 record. Had MMA been like it is right now, Brock would’ve go into that instead and would probably be a destroyer, an experienced, well rounded, destroyer.
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