Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Indy 500: Coverage of the 'Greatest Spectacle In Racing'

Bloody Elbow Judo Chop: Fedor Emelianenko's Vaunted "Fight IQ" Failed Him in His Loss to Fabricio Werdum

This may be the moment when Fedor lost the fight, did he misjudge the cage? Photo by Dave Mandel via Sherdog.com

Coming into last night's Strikeforce fight between Fedor Emelianenko and Fabricio Werdum, I kept seeing MMA analysts using the term "Fight IQ" to describe Fedor's uncanny ability to make the right decisions during a fight.

I first saw that term used by Sergio Non at USA TODAY describing Fedor's win over Andrei Arlovski. Arlovski made the fatal mistake of dropping his hands and coming in with a flying knee that Fedor greeted with a smashing overhand right. Fedor said at the time, ""I noticed that after he attacked he opened up and I was just waiting for his next attack to strike."

Wins like that one and the victory over Brett Rogers last November have trained MMA pundits to expect Fedor to be the one capitalizing on the mistakes of others, not making them.

Here's one of the best in the business, Sherdog's Tomas Rios writing before the last night's fight:

That is really what separates these two and generally separates Emelianenko from other fighters: the ability to quickly perceive weaknesses and capitalize on them. Such a massive difference in fight IQ leaves Werdum hoping to make a paint-by-numbers approach work against an opponent who will see it coming from the opening bell.

But as it happened, it was Fedor who made the mistakes last night and Werdum who planted a clever trap that drew Fedor down into his doom. Werdum seemed to tell Loretta Hunt that he was playing possum to a certain extent to get Fedor to the ground. The photographic evidence shows that Fabricio was bright eyed and alert when he fell to his back.

After the fight, Fedor acknowledged his errors, per Sherdog:

"Certainly there were several moments when I could escape, but I relied on myself too much and that's why I paid for it," said Emelianenko. "At the very moment that I had to escape, I stopped. I didn't do that and that moment was used by Fabricio to lock his clinch, to finish locking up his legs."

Josh Gross notes how this fight was a departure from all of Fedor's past victories:

Supremely confident coming into the bout, Werdum, who also owns victories against Emelianenko's brother Aleksander and Strikeforce heavyweight champion Alistair Overeem, seated cage-side Saturday, noted that the Russian was so dangerous because when he saw opportunities, he capitalized. For whatever reason, he froze when against Werdum when it was most crucial.

"At the every moment when I had to escape, I stopped," Emelianenko said. "I didn't do that and that moment was used by Fabricio to lock me in."

Tonight "I got the chance," said Werdum, who welcomed a rematch with Emelianenko or a shot for the Strikeforce belt versus Overeem. "I saw the chance. And I didn't let it go."

Dave Meltzer quoted Werdum talking about the brief window of opportunity he had to get the win:

Werdum said he wanted the fight on the ground, where as a two-time Brazilian jiu-jitsu world champion, he felt he had the edge. But he also felt it was imperative if finishing to do so quickly.

"I think it had to be in the first round because you don't have so much sweat," he said. "Maybe the second round it wouldn't be possible because of a lot of sweat. The first round was better for me."

Bloody Elbow reader GotaHemmi aka Brian Hemminger of WorldExtremeFighter.com astutely noticed that the cage may have played a critical role in Fedor's mistake. We'll look at some gifs in the full entry.

Luke Thomas will be talking to BJJ brown belt and combat sambo blackbelt Joseph "Seph" Smith on tonight's MMA Nation and he'll be breaking down the fight further, hopefully that will make for a second Judo Chop.  

Strikeforce_fedor_vs_werdum_medium

Star-divide

Gifs by Chris Nelson.

Rather than reinvent the wheel I'm going to cut and paste Hemminger's astute analysis from his fanpost on BEand WorldExtremeFighter.com:

Fedor1_mediumAfter a brief exchange standing, it was obvious that Werdum was no match for Fedor on the feet.  Werdum was ducking his head and throwing sloppy looping punches and Fedor threw a wild right hook that either barely clipped Werdum's chin, or made him lose his balance falling backwards to avoid it. (26 seconds into the fight).  Werdum immediately starts butt-scooting and appears to have all of his faculties.

 

Fedor2_mediumThis moment reminded me eerily of the Andrei Arlovski / Werdum fight.  Werdum dropped on his butt multiple times that fight, but Arlovski refused to take the bait.   He  smartly kicked at Werdum's legs, got the crowd booing a little bit, and forced the fight back to standing where he clearly had  he edge.  Fedor, on the other hand, immediately jumped into Werdum's guard throwing hammerfists and ground and pound but Werdum's legs closed around him like a Venus flytrap.

 

Fedor3_mediumWhat happens next is incredibly important and I can't believe people are not noticing it.  Fedor has solid sub defense, when Werdum initially goes for the armbar, he spins out of it, shrugging it off easily and goes back to work with his punches.  In his excitement (37 seconds into the fight) Fedor spins to his right trying to avoid Werdum's extremely active sub attempts and as Werdum does a forward roll into guard, Fedor gets pressed against the cage, stopping his momentum and giving Werdum the moment he needed to throw his left leg around Fedor's head.  Werdum crosses his feet going for a brief armbar but then locks in the triangle.  From that point on, it was only a matter of time until Fedor tapped or went unconscious.

Great stuff from Brian.

It's clear that Werdum is a very dangerous submission artist. Also, historically, Fedor's biggest fights against BJJ stylists are his trilogy with Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. He won the first of those fights by leaping into Big Nog's guard and devastating Nog with brutal ground and pound from the top. At the time this was seen as an audacious and daring approach since Nogueira was and is one of the most dangerous submission artists in MMA history.

In fact, Nogueira has a considerably higher finishing rate than Werdum. But the key difference, aside from the Nog fights happening in a ring, were that Nogueira tends to rely on sweeps from his back, not exclusively, but often. He's also got shorter legs than Werdum. Clearly Fedor misjudged some things last night. 

Looking forward to more intelligent analysis in the comments.

Comment 119 comments  |  7 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Yep.

Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.

The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino

by Patrick Tenney on Jun 27, 2010 5:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Nice input. lol

"For your information, I would like to ask a question."
-Samuel Goldwyn

by fedorade on Jun 27, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

What you think, Fire? Looks to me like it’s the moment at the very end of the second gif. Fedor almost shoves both of Werdum’s legs off and passes to the side. Instead, his right hand slips off and he starts going for hammer fists instead. He could have easily taken side control but seems to hesitate.

I really have no idea why he didn’t just keep that hand on the knee and shrug the legs down. The hammerfists seem to be the wrong turn he makes that gives Werdum a chance to tighten up.

by judonerd on Jun 27, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely, it’s is as soon as Werdum’s left leg comes over Fedor’s shoulder and clears to the neck; once that one arm in one arm out battle starts the guy on top needs to be way more careful and honestly shouldn’t take the chance if the guy on bottom is an ADCC champ like Werdum.

Honestly engaging Werdum on the ground at all was just not the right plan, he should of had Werdum stand up.

Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.

The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino

by Patrick Tenney on Jun 27, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Basic rule from when I was traing JJ...

if you can feel your opponents leg with your ear, beware.

Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters

By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters

by Razreshat on Jun 27, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree;

It looks like a clasic thing you see all the time, guy on the bottom throws up a triangle, guy on top sweeps/shrugs the legs off and passes to side control, im not sure if he ran out of room or not but once werdum squared his hips back up after that it was game over.

Frodo should of postured up instead of throwing and backed out.

2 hands in or 2 hands out. first rule of top position guard game.

by Beren on Jun 27, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

once that one arm in one arm out battle starts the guy on top needs to be way more careful

Exactly. And instead of posturing up and pushing those hips down, Fedor actually throws all his weight onto Werdum … the same moment Werdum gets his hips all the way back under Fedor. He just shucks Fedor’s weight into the cage at that point.

by judonerd on Jun 27, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor’s left hand touched the ground. When he tried to retract it, Werdum clasped on to it, preventing Fedor from passing to side control.

by Flying Gogoplata on Jun 27, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Werdum’s hips and head control prevented the pass. He kept rolling up on his shoulders and scooting his hips back underneath Fedor. Werdum’s left hand on Fedor’s head did a lot.

Holding the hand doesn’t do much. Fedor could have shoved the legs down so that the only thing still between Werdum’s legs was his wrist. As long as you can get the elbow free and throw the legs away from you, you can take side control.

by judonerd on Jun 27, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor's sub loss here...

is no different than Lesnar’s to Mir.

Both were caught in a sub and got our. Both stupidly went right back into the same position. People use that sub loss to Mir as the basis for Lesnar having no sub defense. IMO, it was a rookie mistake. Fedor is the best of all-time, supposedly, what’s his reason? Is his sub defense just as bad as Lesnar’s?

Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump

by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 27, 2010 5:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Fedor always fought this way.

This is just the first time he was caught while doing it. And I don’t mean caught in the Chuck Liddell way I mean it in the “don’t try to jump into your punches and land into my guard without me slapping a submission on your ass” kind of way.

by Geno Mrosko on Jun 27, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

well they've both only been sub'd once

and Lesnar’s experience in the cage at that point was exactly comparable to Fedor’s — in both instances it was their second fight. in a cage.
Lesnar’s mistake took place in the center of the cage though and would just as likely have happened in all but the smallest rings.
Fedor’s mistake happened up against the wall and might have been caused by the cage.
It may be that Fedor’s reflexes are slowing and this will be the first of a series of fatal in-fight mistakes.
Who knows.
Lesnar has a long way to go before his career can be compared with Fedor’s in any way shape or form. He might be the more formidable man, but he started too late to match Fedor’s accomplishements.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

hrmm

wasn’t Lesnar’s first fight in a ring? Thus making his fight against Mir his first fight in a cage.

follow me twitter.com/GotaHemmi

by Brian Hemminger on Jun 27, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

good point!

touche!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor’s mistake happened up against the wall and might have been caused by the cage.
It may be that Fedor’s reflexes are slowing and this will be the first of a series of fatal in-fight mistakes.

I think the cage angle is being overplayed personally.

Werdum was already doing a good job of rolling and spinning on his back (in addition to already having control of Fedor’s arm the second the fight hit the ground). He already had his legs in good position, but Fedor keeps his left arm tucked when there’s a small window of opportunity to either posture up or grab Werdum’s right leg.

The fact that Werdum capitalized on these movements just means the difference between a Mundials champ, and someone who just has really good jiu jitsu for MMA.

by David Castillo on Jun 27, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're missing the point

Fedor made a mental mistake. So did Lesnar. Can’t blame the cage as Lesnar had not fought in the cage before. Fedor had fought great sub fighters (Nog) before. So he knew what to do. Lesnar had no experience. He made a rookie mistake. Yet, that rookie mistake is the basis for people saying he “lacks sub defense”. How people make that leap is astonishing.

Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump

by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 27, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

well

no one involved in the writing of this post is making those claims.
I’ve done a judo chop on lesnar’s loss to mir and one on his win to mir.
i think you’ll find no one has given the man more props for his technique than i have.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never said they were

My original statement was just that. A statement. Not necessarily a reaction to his post.

Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump

by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 27, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok cool

the way it was framed seemed like a critique of the post

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think this has little to do with reflexes and more to do with overconfidence. Fedor dove in like a madman, overcommited his weight and got tipped into the cage. I think it’s just been years since someone threatened Fedor in the guard play.

I’ve seen nothing that indicates that Fedor is training with BJJ HWs like Werdum. Hopefully his camp just becomes a little less insular.

by judonerd on Jun 27, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course you’re right. But how many would jump at the chance to train with Fedor? He would only have to ask, IMO, and all five would come running.

by judonerd on Jun 28, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I got the feeling that Fedor thought he hurt him and just went to end the fight, he really just did jump on him and start swinging like a madman and way overcommited. After dropping Sylvia, AA and Rogers I wonder if he just assumed he would drop Werdum like that too? It’s been a very long time since Fedor had fought anyone with anything near the kind of ground game that Werdum has.

by who me on Jun 28, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

“What’s his reason?”

Fedor until last night, in a way was greener then Lesnar. Fedor never had a real loss, so in a way he was also a rookie. You can’t be the greatest of all time without experiencing a loss.

by ontite on Jun 27, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was a rookie because, in this 30+ professional fights, he'd never been defeated?

That’s easily the dumbest thing I’ve read today.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 27, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

this is good stuff

I would never go 30 days without sex.
Joe Rogan

by TD500 on Jun 27, 2010 5:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks Kid

I’m no BJJ expert, haven’t even rolled before so I’m sure that I didn’t catch everything. I’m looking forward to seeing what some of the smarter BJJ guys have to say.

follow me twitter.com/GotaHemmi

by Brian Hemminger on Jun 27, 2010 5:20 PM EDT reply actions  

thanks man!

glad you appreciated having your work used in the post.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

excellent work, Nate and Brian.

"Players are gods, the stands are the pews, football is the new religion."

by DamnSevern on Jun 27, 2010 5:21 PM EDT reply actions  

i'm working on it!

no promises but doing as many as we can!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

oooh

i forgot about that one. i think we can hook that up

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Awesome

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Jun 27, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks

in my dreams i’m working on a whole series of historical judo chops. let’s see if I can carve out the time!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I imagine that would take a long ass time so I won't hold my breath.

But good god that would be epic.
When did this site get it’s start? I know when it joined the SB Nation but when did it originally come about?

by Geno Mrosko on Jun 27, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

that was the origin

I am good friends with SBN’s founders and was badgering them to have an MMA site. They built one and told me I was taking it over and off we went. Didn’t think it would grow into a monster.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well you've done a hell of a job with it, sir.

You know it would be cool to read something about the behind the scenes story of Bloody Elbow. How it came to be, how all the writers and staff came on and their stories and whatnot. Like you said, basically what drove this site to become the monster that it is. I think that would be pretty damn cool.

by Geno Mrosko on Jun 27, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had a plan on interviewing all the staff and putting them up once a week or whenever we had down time. Never got around to it though.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jun 27, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

ok. never thought about it. but could be fun.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

fagan's the one with the most interesting

secret origins of super-bloggers story.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha....you fellas have the power.

I can’t speak for anyone else but I’d love to hear it. The interviewing the staff and putting them up once a week sounds good too. I think it would work too because this is such an intimate site in that the staff is so active in the comments and being a part of the community. A lot of people on here already have an idea about who you are based on your posts. This would give them an inside look.
First up…Kid Nate- The Man Behind the Controversial Headlines.

by Geno Mrosko on Jun 27, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

except people already give us endless shit about ego tripping and thinking we’re great so we’ll have to tread lightly.
i get tired of the bullshit that comes with this site.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

honestly i think it's a great idea

Sometimes i forget i’m dealing with actual people online. When i learn a thing or two about the person behind the screen name it all becomes more real. Once i have some prescriptive i find myself going over some of the shit i say and then come to the realization that, WTF man, i can be a bit of an asshole from time to time.

Hopefully it could help take some of the heat off you guys.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein"
- Goonisis

by Goonisis on Jun 27, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

They make me a better fan, no wait…a better man. Thank you from the bottom of my heart nate…

I'm a lover not a fighter

by spectaa on Jun 27, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve said it before……NEVER JUMP IN THE DRY GUARD OF A BJJ WORLD CHAMP! EVER!!!!

USMC vet. MMA nut. Frank Shamrock did his own voice over.....how funny is that?
Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on Jun 27, 2010 5:25 PM EDT reply actions  

A small correction:

Great judo chop as always, but one small correction:

Werdum was thrown off-balance by the left jab-right hook/uppercut-left hook combination Fedor hit him with. The wild right hook that Fedor threw at the end didn’t appear to land. This is a bit clearer in another gif (courtesy of Fightlinker):

That said, very good judo chop again. I hadn’t noticed the role that the fence played in allowing Werdum to get his legs over Fedor’s shoulders. That’s really interesting. Great stuff as usual.

If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.

by Sabate on Jun 27, 2010 5:27 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

all credit to Brian on that

nice gif contribution and observation yourself!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

It didn't really look like Fedor landed anything but a small left towards the end of that exchange

And it definitely doesn’t appear that he went down from a punch, he was off balance with his legs spread too far apart and then the force of the last punch Fedor threw(which clipped his forearm)his pushed him backwards.

by SimplePsych on Jun 27, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

That not what I see.

Fedor lands a left jab → right uppercut combo right off the bat.
Werdum hits with a glancing overhand right at the same time.
Fedor misses with a left and right short hooks as Werdum ducks them.
Werdum flails with wild overhands.
Fedor lands a solid short left hook that knocks Werdum off balance, and then misses or glances with the wild right.

If you’ll notice, Werdum is already falling backwards before the last wild right that Fedor throws. It was the left hook that landed on the chin and knocked him off balance, or he was doing a super good job at acting.

If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.

by Sabate on Jun 27, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well.....

We obviously see different things. And I trust my vision more!

by SimplePsych on Jun 28, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well Done.

One thing I’ve noticed that (myself) and others have been overlooking …

What’s next for Fabricio Werdum? How does this affect him, what will he do next, etc.

Look forward to seeing what you’ve got next regardless.

by jhf884 on Jun 27, 2010 5:31 PM EDT reply actions  

This is definitely not a "just got caught" situation like so many are/were saying

Fedor made error(s) and Werdum capitalized like a champ. Outclassed him on the ground. Way to go, man.

Great Judo chop as per usual KN/Gotahemmi.

by Goonisis on Jun 27, 2010 5:33 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think Fedor got "outclassed"

but outdone. It’s not like he was totally worked and out of his element. He made a mistake against a guy who you are not allowed the opportunity to make mistakes against.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 27, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does the difference really matter to anyone but people too upset about the loss?

Fedor was almost put into one submission and then got transitioned into another. Seems like being outclassed to me. But the difference is really semantics.

Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters

By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters

by Razreshat on Jun 27, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it should matter to anybody who sees fights in any capacity beyond "black and white, win or lose" situations.

If you care more about the Fightfinder entry than the fights themselves, sure.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 27, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor went to the ground with a superior ground fighter and paid for that mistake. It’s great to have context, but there’s nothing more beyond that.

by David Castillo on Jun 27, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

I really don’t think the term “outclassed” is applicable to what happened here. Werdum beat Fedor, but he didn’t come out looking to be worlds better than him, which is what that phrase implies. He fought a better fight and won, but being outclassed is like what Overeem did to Rogers: treating a guy like they had no place being in the same ring.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 27, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

They spent about 40 seconds on the ground...

of which Werdum controlled every second and manipulated Fedor into that submission.

I’m fine with the term “Outclassed him on the ground.” as used by Goonisis above.

But I didn’t lose any money, pride or ego points with Fedor lossing either.

Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters

By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters

by Razreshat on Jun 27, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Insinuating much?

"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-

by Neil Manich on Jun 27, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just a bit...

but just for fun.

Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters

By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters

by Razreshat on Jun 27, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's the point of talking on the internet

if we aren’t going to be at least a little dickish about it?

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 27, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

EXACTLY!

Especially about things like the stupid difference between saying Fedor was “outdone on the ground” or “outclassed on the ground”.

Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters

By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters

by Razreshat on Jun 27, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets be fair.

We all lost a little bit of PRIDE in that fight.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 27, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

let's not forget that Werdum

was a PRIDE fighter.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure

But he wasn’t the very manifestation of the fading PRIDE legend.

"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-

by Neil Manich on Jun 27, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't at all.

But he was a part of “PRIDE NEVER DIE!” PRIDE.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 27, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was watching the match with my buddy and as soon as Fedor went to the mat with Werdum and Werdum had his legs tangled up around Fedor’s head, I started saying "He’s getting submitted dude. He’s getting submitted. Then, sure enough, just as I thought that Fedor was waiting it out and wasn’t going to be submitted, he got submitted.

by Dooda on Jun 27, 2010 5:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Damn...

I didn’t realize how much the cage played a part. Awesome write up!

"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni

by midwestbred on Jun 27, 2010 5:33 PM EDT reply actions  

The floor is lava. Red hot lava. Stay off the floor.

Werdum was the right man at the right place at the right time.

Keep Firing, Assholes!

Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?

by Ubernoober on Jun 27, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions  

This

I said this in the live blog – I think Fedor figured that if he could handle the guard of a 2003 Nog, he could handle a 2010 Werdum’s. Not so much.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

The difference...

might not be between 2003 Nog and 2010 Werdum as much as 2003 Fedor and 2010 Fedor…or a little of both.

Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters

By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters

by Razreshat on Jun 27, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

re:#2

I am sure judonerd and AboveThisFire could better explain this, but when frodo hit the cage, it looked like werdum was using the armbar > flower sweep combo. if you look @ werdum right leg he is cutting the angle and bringing it under frodo’s left arm. if not for the cage a high level BJJ player like werdum would go armbar > flower sweep > armbar…

by Beren on Jun 27, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

can you elaborate on the flower sweep

links? explanation?
thanks!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can sure try to:

The classic flower sweep, invovles traping an arm and cutting an angle with your inside leg (cutting the angle means pushing with your leg on an angle that pushes your opponent over your shoulder).
the basic steps are:

  • control an arm or wrist
  • Spin you hips (like an arm bar from the bottom)
  • push your inside up in the armpit/shoulder of opponent

here is a few link. once you get the feel of the move its a very nice sweep that chain into and out of armbars and triangles very well.
http://www.martialfighter.com/grappling-and-ju-jitsu/flower-sweep-and-submission-grappling-and-jiu-jitsu.html

by Beren on Jun 27, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

^^ english has failed me: sorry about the badly written response.

from gif # 3.

  • Werdum has head and wrist control.
  • Fedor is moving around to square his hip and get back to guard for ground and pound
  • werdum uses his leg and hips to drive fedor into the cage
  • fedor can’t post his leg because the cage stops his right foot
  • werdum uses this as a chance to reposition and get his ancles crossed trapping the arm he has kept control of with wrist control.

It looks set up to me; mainly using the basics from the flower sweep; but done a lot faster then you would normally see it.

by Beren on Jun 27, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

It looked to me like he was going for that sweep too. In the other cageside camera angles of this fight, I was looking to see if Werdum was trying to underhook the leg for the 100% tech-legit sweep, but he never did. His hips and twisting motion are the same though, I just think he was too busy with other things to use the right arm to get the elevator going on that leg.

by judonerd on Jun 28, 2010 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

nice

thanks so much!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 28, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nah, you did fine explaining it on your own =).

P.S. The entire flower sweep series is bread and butter for me (that windmill leg motion/pendulum is great for taller people), it’s hilarious when people ask what the sweep was because you get to say “flower sweep” or “rainbow sweep” etc etc; totally need to make a “Hello Kitty” sweep.

Got the Summer hatin on me cus I'm hotter than the sun. Got the Spring hatin on me cus I ain't never sprung. Winter hatin on me cus I'm colder than ya'll; and I will never I will never I will never Fall.

The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino

by Patrick Tenney on Jun 28, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also...

…I am willing to bet that Fedor did not train with anyone near the level of Werdum in BJJ. He would have done well to bring in a Roger Gracie type heavyweight. Overconfidence.

by Reciprocity on Jun 28, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just a question

I just wanna know why everyone is talking about Fedors mistakes instead of Werdums accomplishments. I thought this fight could end this way( not in the first rd) but it was always a possiblity. I think Werdum was compossed and that was the reason he won not cause Fedor made a mistake. Thoughts??

by fightersvizion on Jun 27, 2010 6:14 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

??

 I said Werdum expertly rolled Fedor into the cage so he could get his left leg around Fedor’s head. That’s not Fedor making a mistake, that’s Werdum being a brilliant BJJ tactician. If Fedor made a mistake at all, it was going to the ground with Werdum in the first place.

follow me twitter.com/GotaHemmi

by Brian Hemminger on Jun 27, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hemmi pointed this out

That Werdum rather brilliantly rolled against Fedor, pinning him into the cage, and allowing him to get both his legs over Fedor’s shoulders. That’s not just top-level BJJ – that’s top-level BJJ that’s well adapted to MMA.

Werdum deserves all the props he gets, but I don’t see anybody writing him off.

If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.

by Sabate on Jun 27, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's a good point

but the thing is, Fedor’s the guy who’s been known for never making a mistake he couldn’t correct.
I assume that readers are aware just how dangerous Werdum is, but I think I’ll add a link to my post on werdum from beforethe fight.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

basically here's the thing

fedor making a fatal mistake = huge news
werdum ,the world champion BJJ guy getting a submission = not news

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 27, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fedor making such a elementry mistake is huge. Im still trying to wrap my head around it. I have watched that fight 20 times today and I don’t understand what was going through his mind. 999 times out of a 1000 he would back out of the gaurd.

Root for the home team jack ass

by KING FEDOR on Jun 27, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

"I just wanna know why everyone is talking about Fedors mistakes instead of Werdums accomplishments."

Hit you with a rec just for that line.

Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters

By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters

by Razreshat on Jun 27, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would say it is because it was not like him. That’s not taking anything away from Werdum

Root for the home team jack ass

by KING FEDOR on Jun 27, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Prolly the same reason

Everyone chastised Lesnar after getting tapped by Mir and no one talked about what Mir did.

Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump

by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 28, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am a false prophet; Fedor is a superstition!

"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-

by Neil Manich on Jun 27, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol, I love that scene! :-)

by dreamers_12345 on Jun 27, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you think your dance and your superstition would save you?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

i watched this movie friday and this scene made me feel weird inside like anxiety or something, crazy frickin movie, watching him go crazy throughout that movie was disturbing

by Hades on Jun 28, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look at the head control...

I have noticed in the gifs how Werdum had a left hand on Fedor’s head, even as Fedor was spinning to avoid the sub attempts. As Fedor bumps the cage, he releases his hand briefly to allow the left leg over, simultaneously grabbing the right wrist, then quickly grabs Fedor’s head again to pull him into the triangle. Beautiful!

I am a novice, but noticing subtleties like this is what hooks me in even deeper!

by NickPT on Jun 27, 2010 7:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Sigh

Anyone else loose money on Bodog or a similar website?? Sigh…..

I'm from Canada, and they think I'm slow eh!

by Simboy on Jun 27, 2010 7:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I stopped betting on them because of the hoops you have to jump through to get paid

Root for the home team jack ass

by KING FEDOR on Jun 27, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

betting on huge favorites is silly.

by Phildo on Jun 27, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have betting rules I try to keep to but I know last night I would have went with the public and blew my wad

Root for the home team jack ass

by KING FEDOR on Jun 27, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can assure you though I would have lost my ass

Root for the home team jack ass

by KING FEDOR on Jun 27, 2010 8:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I can't rec this enough

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

What you're missing is...

the extremely high level “shoulder roll” that Werdum uses to go from having his guard passed to locking up a triangle.

That roll is similar to a Granby Roll in wrestling, where you tuck your head, and roll sideways over your shoulders (not your back) to gain position. The move is also used in jiujitsu, often to retain guard from side control or knee on the belly. It is a conceptually simple roll, but very difficult to execute, especially in the heat of a fight, let along a wrestling/grappling match.

I'm just a 16 year old kid who loves MMA.

by bcpjkell on Jun 28, 2010 1:49 AM EDT reply actions  

excellent

Seph Smith talked about that on MMA nation.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jun 28, 2010 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

its apart of his guard work; his defending the guard pass while setting up the armbars/triangles, really slick.

by Beren on Jun 28, 2010 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

The cage defeated Fedor. LOL

by moonlapse88 on Jun 28, 2010 1:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Love this

Bloody Elbow guys, love the Judo Chop. Love it. Despite my deep jealous insanity revolving a desire to write for your website, I still love what you guys put out, especially the Judo Chop.

As for this particular Judo Chop, particular attention needs to be paid to Fedor’s loss of control. Werdum recently claimed that he was not hurt by the punch, but knocked off balance. I don’t buy that, I think he is still holding his cards that this was actually planned. There are several fights were Fedor rocks a guy and then buries them in a sea of punches on the ground. All Werdum had to do was think Jedi and let overconfidence be the weakness.

Nice work gentlemen.

by b_radical on Jun 28, 2010 3:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

"I'm working on the intricacies of details of maneuvers that he still doesn't even know the names of." - Frank Mir

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Chilli_pickle_283g_hot_small
Junior Dos Santos' Worst UFC Win is Stefan Struve
Wario_small
BECW3 UFC 146 Recap & Live Post discussion
Wario_small
BECW3 UFC 146 Live Post
Madmen_icon_small
Dan Hardy: The Outlaw (Short documentary film)
Me_2_small
Farewell Frank Mir

Recent FanPosts

Small
USA chants during ufc fights!?!?!?!?!?
220px-johnnycash1969_small
Fighters you aren't sold on ?
Small
Duane Ludwig's chasm...ouch
Rousimar-palhares-picture_small
An Appeal to SBNation
Lebowski_excited_grin_small
Top 5 Potential Replacements for Vitor Belfort Against Wanderlei Silva
Obp_small
Help me get a job

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

MMA Rankings

USA Today / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings