Dana White and UFC Are Biggest Winners After Fedor Emelianenko's Defeat
by Luke Thomas on Jun 27, 2010 11:39 AM EDT
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Nate argues in a few posts below that in addition to Fedor Emelianenko and M-1, Dana White and the UFC also lost something last night. Namely, the ability to potentially promote some of, if not the greatest, heavyweight fights in MMA history. Perhaps even the greatest fights in MMA history.
That's true, but you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette. While White and all of MMA fandom lost out on what could've been gigantic fights, the coffin closed on another lingering argument that simply wouldn't go away. It's now official: the UFC is the NFL of MMA. They now house the number one fighter in every single division (bantamweight and above) and solid majority of the rest of the top contenders in each division. That criteria itself was part of Nate's argument about why the UFC shouldn't be considered the NFL of MMA. With that T crossed and I dotted, the debate is over.
Moreover, one wonders if other organizations will even have the capability to ever produce another division leader (they certainly will not at heavyweight). It's conceivable the Japanese organizations, for all their floundering, could produce a fighter who holds the top spot in the lighter weight classes, but it's unlikely unless they demonstrate some kind of unheralded dominance. They'd have to string together a huge line of dominating wins against whatever competition can be cobbled together. And without access to the rest of the highly-ranked division housed Stateside, climbing the rankings ladder to the top spot is going to prove difficult.
Strikeforce's lightweight and middleweight divisions, such that they exist, could also potentially produce a top-flight division leader, but it's more likely that the ceiling on any fighter coming from their ranks will keep them below the top spot. Melendez is an exceptional, accomplished fighter, but there is more clamor for him to fight a fighter outside of Striekforce's ranks. If he does, that'll be the second fighter in a row he's faced that isn't part of a swap deal. And even if Meldendez were to defeat Bellator's Eddie Alvarez, in all likelihood his position in the lightweight division wouldn't improve.
Fedor provided Strikeforce with two key contributions. First, he took his status as the one number heavyweight fighter in MMA and gave Strikeforce's heavyweight division more credibility than it would have without his presence (although it also raised questions about the quality of competition). Two, it brought a certain celebrity or status to the entire Strikeforce operation. With Fedor's presence, Strikeforce's star shone a little brighter. His name on their roster muddled the picture about organizational supremacy, even if it was more generally obvious the UFC was the bigger name. In reality, Strikeforce and UFC operate under two very different models, but the side by side comparisons - made more possible by using Fedor as the political football - were inevitable. After last night's defeat, especially since it came so easily and to a man cut by the UFC (who is admittedly a very, very gifted fighter that I underrated), part of what Fedor brought to Strikeforce evaporated in the blink of an eye.
Make it official. Call CNN. Tell your friends. Give your mother a call. The UFC is the major leagues of MMA and there isn't any debate about it.
UPDATE: Let me make one key point not fleshed out here. While as of this moment the UFC is by far the dominant MMA league, I am not one to think that it will be this way for eternity. I certainly think that's true for the foreseeable future or as long as the current paradigm of fight promotion is in place, but it is highly, highly foolish to predict market forces cannot change the winds of fortune. Simply stated, we don't know what's going to happen in the future and predicting the UFC's dominance as we currently understand it is silly and the product of trying to crystallize a healthy imagination. I do not rule out circumstances shifting in dramatic ways to unseat the current power players, but I do rule that out happening within any sort of short time frame.
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Interesting Fact::
Fedor, Hendo, & Mousasi have all lost in Strikeforce , a promotion most considered had no competition for them.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 27, 2010 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
I never actually boarded that "Mousasi is unstoppable" hypetrain that some people were in,
but yes that is a very interesting point.
by Anton Tabuena on Jun 27, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
No one said there aren't tough guys in Strikeforce
But everyone said the majority of the tough guys, including the toughest, are in Zuffa promotions. To wit:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/rankings
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jun 27, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
King Mo
would DESTROY Shogun.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Destroy?
Lol. Don’t really see him destroying him. Given any fighter now a days can beat any fighter on any given night. I see Sho beating him handedly.
by Bloodsport on Jun 27, 2010 12:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
DESTROY
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
like he "destroyed" Mousasi?
by getting takedowns and eating punches from the top but maintaining enough control to win a decision? Because that’s pretty much the only way he’d win.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 27, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I might be the biggest King Mo mark on here
but I just don’t see Mo beating Rua. Sure, Mo might take Rua down several times, but I shudder to think what would happen to Mo when he got to the ground, even if elbows are legal.
"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis
I might be the biggest King Mo mark on here
You’re second at best.
I'm a lover not a fighter
by spectaa on Jun 27, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm OK with that
"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis
Yes
just like that. Utter destruction.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
King Mo didn't utterly destroy Mousasi
He did beat him rather convincingly from where I was watching on my TV, though.
"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis
He won 3 rounds to 2. Lets not forget alot were making a case that Mousasi might of even won that fight. Winning 2 rounds buy only punching from your guard is quite dam hard.
I know what the judges cards were
but the HS wrestling coach in me marked out for all the takedowns. :)
"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis
I don’t even see him doing that Brent. IF Mo laid on Shogum like that he would get swept in seconds. And if his cardio is the same for any fight agasint a top oppoent at 205 that has any sort of Take down Def Mo will be the one to get destroyed.
Robert LL – Also lets not forget Mousasi won 2 rounds of that fight buy laying punching from his guard – pretty embarrassing -That fight showed that bolth fighters MO and Mousasi bolth have huge holes in there game.
Shogun has an actual gas tank.
"Fedor is in major trouble! FEDOR TAPS! FEDOR TAPS! FABRICIO WERDUM WINS BY SUBMISSION (TRIANGLE CHOKE), ROUND 1!" - Brent Brookhouse, BloodyElbow.com
by SSreporters on Jun 27, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously? Mo went five rounds against Mousasi. He looked dead at the end of round three and came out and found an unbelievable second wind in rounds four and five. Mo’s gastank and heart are pretty impressive.
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
Shogun isn't Mousasi
I do not think Shogun would let King Mo get away with spending his energy in the 3rd round.
Mo is very raw, got the biggest win of his career, but he’s not at Shogun’s level.
"Fedor is in major trouble! FEDOR TAPS! FEDOR TAPS! FABRICIO WERDUM WINS BY SUBMISSION (TRIANGLE CHOKE), ROUND 1!" - Brent Brookhouse, BloodyElbow.com
If by “destroy” you mean take him down and lay on him for 5 rounds then yeah that’s possible. Shogun will be upkicking, elbowing and machine gunning submissions the whole time, though.
by Electro Boy on Jun 27, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, to beat Mo you have to beat him from your back, which isn’t impossible. Mousassi was doing it during round 2 but he gassed. Shogun would be able to work a much more versatile attack. But he does have a point, Mo is a tough match up for a lot of people.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jun 27, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I do think
Mo would fare better in disrupting guard work if he was allowed to throw elbows on a grounded opponent. King Mo’s game is better suited for Unified Rules.
"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis
No
I mean DESTROY
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
One more troll comment
And you’re gone. This is your only warning.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jun 27, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
But...
That didn’t change over night. So Strikeforce trades #1 Fedor ranking for now 3 solid top 10 HW’s now, and Fedor rising to #1 again is definitely not out of the question. They have 3 HW’s in top 10 with a potential of 2-3 more to creep in the top 10.
Either way, it fared MUCH better for Strikeforce to have Fedor lose in their promotion rather than in another.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 27, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously, if he loses that fight on a Dec. 31 card in Japan.....
Strikeforce is even worse off. At least he lost while making them money.
"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis
The UFC has built this to the point that
anyone not fighting in their promotion looks lesser just for not having fought for their promotion. Fedor escaped that because of the epic run in Pride but even he had a lot of doubters. You’re right, now that he lost it’s over for those debates. No matter how good anyone does outside the UFC everyone can always say that they aren’t doing it IN the UFC.
by Geno Mrosko on Jun 27, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And somewhere sitting unnoticed in the background
Fabricio Werdum had a good night as well.
by Electro Boy on Jun 27, 2010 11:45 AM EDT reply actions 9 recs
This Werdum is obviously a better fighter than the one who got dropped by JDS. Werdum is peaking at the right moment. It’s funny how much younger he looks than Fedor when in fact he’s almost the same age.
The more you drive, the less intelligent you are.
Why is that? He got caught and dropped in the JDS fight. How could that possibly reflect on his ground game which is what he used to submit Fedor. At the time he fought JDS he was an ADCC champ. Werdum was a good fighter then, and he is now.
by The Darkness on Jun 27, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO
He’s better but not that much better.
He ducked his head into an uppercut against Fedor too.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually.. Wedrum is no different than when he fought JDS...
Werdum is a gifted fighter… (on the ground)..
His blaring holes appear in the stand-up, stand-up defense, and some could argue the wrestling dept.
He is also a relatively small HW himself.. Is he a different fighter than the one who fought JDS ?? No.. Just that JDS, like Arlovski before him could beat him to a punch and outclass him standing up. It just so happens that JDS’s missile landed on target while Arlovski’s didn’t..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on Jun 27, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
…and the fact that Werdum was incredibly out of shape for his fight against JDS and was disgruntled at not being given a title shot.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jun 27, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
So being disgruntled can be considered a factor? What if JDS himself was disgruntled that he was being given such a tough first fight? How far can we take personal emotion as a factor contributing to the result of a fight? What if Werdum was disgruntled about having forgot to brush his teeth the morning before? What if, for some real metaphysical irony, he was disgruntled about the shitty, terrible excuses he’d have for losing the fight that night if he did?
by David Castillo on Jun 27, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Duuuuude
Nobody is disputing JDS or his performance against Werdum. We’re saying Werdum is better than he was when he fought JDS.
Did you see him? He was all flabby and nonchalant about the whole thing. Obviously he wasn’t at his best.
Still a great win for JDS, he fucking highlight reeled him in his first UFC fight.
It’s one thing to say look at Shogun against Forrest and say “Shogun wasn’t 100%” when we know that Shogun, given his explicit injuries at the time, wasn’t 100%, but in a literal way.
It’s entirely another to peer into the mind of a fighter and say that Werdum wasn’t 100% just because he was fatter than usual. Maybe he was still in great spirits. leading up to the fight.
Besides…I was mostly responding to the ridiculous “he was disgruntled” line, which happens to be thoroughly retarded.
by David Castillo on Jun 27, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you see the fight?
Werdum was fat and out of shape and I think he took JDS very lightly.
Fabricio was JDS first big win……….Fabricio probably had no idea JDS was that good, especially his striking.
by Electro Boy on Jun 27, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Werdum did know exactly who JDA was prior to their fight...
JDS has been under the Nog bros. for almost his entire adult life.. JDS isn’t an overnight sensation.. He’s a long time product of Black House that was groomed along the way..
Everyone in the Brazilian know was aware of his talent.. Sadly, the majority of Americans that don’t follow the sport that in depth thought he just blazed on the scene..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
o rly?
cuz he sure didn’t act like it.
Oh, and I’d say he did blaze onto the scene.
Going from small shows in Brazil to knocking out Werdum in devastating fashion in your first UFC fight is as blazing as it gets.
I don’t care what he was doing in Brazil, it’s not even close to what he did to Werdum.
I meant that in a literal sense..
Werdum knew of JDS before JDS got into the UFC..
Many of the Brazilian fighters did.. He isn’t a noobie off the streets. He’s been a training partner for many pro fighters before making his actual pro debut. He’s been groomed by the Nog bros for the last couple of years..
Lot’s of guys knew who he was.. Most of them knew what his talent level was and what his potential has been.. He’s just now getting his recognition on the big stage.. But he’s been around the MMA scene for a while now..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I guess some could make an argument for that ...
It’s still subjective at best though..
JDS’s win wasn’t an accident, lucky punch, or any of the like.. The guy is really that good at striking with his hands.. Werdum on the other hand just isn’t…
I don’t think the outcome would be any different if they were to fight in a rematch or best out of 3.. JDS is just a style match-up nightmare for someone like Werdum.. JDS knows enough of the ground game to stay out of trouble and Werdum has to start each round standing up…
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Actually
He trains full-time. Odds are he’s better. Plus, he’s had three fights since; that’s experience.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
“They’d have to string together a huge line of dominating wins against whatever competition can be cobbled together. And without access to the rest of the highly-ranked division housed Stateside, climbing the rankings ladder to the top spot is going to prove difficult.”
I dunno… Eddie Alvarez has a top 5 ranking on a lot of sites having faced less than credible opposition.
A lot of writers who rank love winning streaks. Rattle off three or four solid wins and you’ll shoot up the rankings, regardless of who those wins are against. Wasn’t Robbie Lawler a top three MW at one time?
by Applejack McNeil on Jun 27, 2010 11:52 AM EDT reply actions
"climbing the rankings ladder to the top spot"
That’s the crux. Guys can crack top 10 and even top 5, but a) that’s not the number one spot and b) those instances will be few and far between.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jun 27, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah, agreed. I read “top spot” as more generalized ie Carwin is at the top of the HW division as he is ranked 3, maybe 2 now.
by Applejack McNeil on Jun 27, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s probably fourth behind Lesnar, Werdum and Fedor.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jun 27, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d serious consider Melendez as #2 knocking on the door of the top spot with convincing wins over Alvarez and Kawajiri, but there’s no one for him to fight in Strikeforce to keep him aloft
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Sergio great point about writers just loving winning streaks and rising a fighter up the rankings just based on the steak and not the competition. Robbie Lawler is a great example of just that with his winnning streak at MW against mid level competition.I think Lawler after the Joey V,Pamplona,Trigg,Rua and Smith run shot as high as #4 or #5 on sherdogs, MMA Weekly’s and mostother rankings.
Good write up Luke
I find this to be way more believable then Nates. The Ufc lost out on one big fight, but is now THE place for the best fighters to fight. That’s something everyone can agree is a good thing
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
by II SMASH II on Jun 27, 2010 11:55 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
I don't know about everyone
There are some Zuffa detractors out there crying today.
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
by Worldisart on Jun 27, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Sandstormremix is hanging from a noose somewhere.
by Electro Boy on Jun 27, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
sandstormremix
All I gotta says is…
Bless his heart
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
by II SMASH II on Jun 27, 2010 12:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He put his head in a stove and turned it on…
Problem is that it was an electric stove.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
Never would have happened
Fedor never would have fought in the ufc had he remained undefeated. Now there is actually a chance, but only if Fedor will shed himself of this M-1 Global nonsense. M-1 Global’s entire business model, we’ve got the best heavyweight on the planet, is now gone. And thank God it is. Fedor just lost to a guy who washed out of the ufc! I’m sure Dana is smiling today!
werdum didnt wash out it wanted more money and a title shot that didnt happen so he left
by Richard Doughty on Jun 27, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Admittedly i don’t remember for sure how it went down, but i remember him being cut. Wiki (yeah, i know) confirms this. If you have any citations to the contrary, that’d be great.
Quick summary:
Werdum was making a lot of money. Werdum lost to JDS. Werdum wanted to continue making a lot of money. UFC didn’t think he was worth it, asked him to take pay cut. Werdum said no. UFC cut Werdum.
by Electro Boy on Jun 27, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats exactly what happend after after the Vera fight he signed a new 4or 5 fight contract that was paying him alot more then his previous contract and as soon as he lost to a new comer in Dos Santos and his stock just droped he got cut. He rolled the Dice and paid the price bottom line – Or did he in the long Run ? I think this Fedor W never happens if he stays in Zuffa’s good graces
These rankings are with Zuffa for the foreseeable future
But it won’t be like this forever. Had Aoki won against Melendez he would have taken a legitimate number 1 ranking from Zuffa. If BJ gets mad at the UFC and leaves now that he is free of his championship clause and knocks off Alvarez and Melendez in quick succession he’s number one outside of Zuffa. Any of these things can happen. But of course, for now, Zuffa is the pinnacle.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Hopefully they will be for a long time
At least to the point when the sport is truly mainstream and can survive without Zuffa. I don’t want any competition or bumps along the road until then.
BJ and Edgar Rematch
is signed
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a pretty big if
Aoki won against Melendez he would have taken a legitimate number 1 ranking from Zuffa.
And with the way he was dominated by Melendez, it just shows how undeserving he was of such a ranking.
BJ isn’t going anywhere. He’ll more than likely beat Edgar in the rematch, and if not, has a number of new interesting fights in the UFC. Besides, the UFC will pay him good money to stick around until he racks up a few big losses.
The time for UFC fighters using Strikeforce as contractual leverage is over, just ask Hendo,
Or Werdum right?
And also those scenarios were more about how these situations gould arise again.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jun 27, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a legitimate point, but if the UFC guns for Werdum it will be for the purpose of throwing a blow at Strikeforce, not because they fear he will shake up the rankings and leave lingering questions about the world’s No. 1 HW.
I’m not a man of absolutes, so I will concede that there is a chance of these situations rising again. The likeliness is minute, however. There is no more pool of fighters like Pride for the UFC to lose grasp of someone like Fedor. It will take the dissolution of the UFC to shake things up like that ever again.
Well said
Despite this win, Werdum is still in no way one of the 3 or even 5 best HWs.
Overeem will have no illusions about being able to go to the ground with Werdum, and Werdum is not a good enough wrestler to take Overeem down in the convential sense. Overeem’s BJJ + strength and athletic ability should keep it on the feet where he wins easily.
Fedor will still finish his SF contract against Bigfoot as I’ve long said (albeit for different reasons now).
The best move the UFC could make would be signing Werdum AFTER he loses to Overeem, with the hope that Fedor will either be unable to avenge his loss or, preferably, avenge it in the UFC.
by BigDNotDallas on Jun 27, 2010 9:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wow
That criteria itself was part of Nate’s argument about why the UFC shouldn’t be considered the NFL of MMA. With that T crossed and I dotted, the debate is over.
Way to say checkmate Luke, very good.
I would also note in addition that this last years destruction of more than a few top dogs from japans lighter ranks kind of puts them all in minor league status. Particularly Aoki by a #6 Melendez.
melendez was already in the DREAM pool of fighters
all his biggest fights except for the pair against Josh Thomson and one against Clay Guida were against DREAM guys — Kawajiri, Ishida (2x), etc
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
UFC doesn't have bantamweight and featherweight
Unless you’re talking about AldovsFaber and WEC, which is owned by Zuffa.
No doubt though the UFC is the top. They’ve got 95% of the top fighters in the world today and last night just confirmed it.
"Fedor is in major trouble! FEDOR TAPS! FEDOR TAPS! FABRICIO WERDUM WINS BY SUBMISSION (TRIANGLE CHOKE), ROUND 1!" - Brent Brookhouse, BloodyElbow.com
"Unless you’re talking about AldovsFaber and WEC, which is owned by Zuffa."
Ok, I’m the EIC of this site. You really think I’m going to write a post a not consider that?
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jun 27, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
a = and
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jun 27, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Nontheless, you did say UFCand not Zuffa. You being the EIC of this site does not somehow give the rest of us the ability to read your mind…
B-A-K-A-S-U-R-V-I-V-O-R
by Mattyjudo on Jun 27, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
You are underestimating my mind-reading powers.
It’s underrated like my ground game.
"Fedor is in major trouble! FEDOR TAPS! FEDOR TAPS! FABRICIO WERDUM WINS BY SUBMISSION (TRIANGLE CHOKE), ROUND 1!" - Brent Brookhouse, BloodyElbow.com
by SSreporters on Jun 27, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I know. It's a joke, Matt Brown.
"Fedor is in major trouble! FEDOR TAPS! FEDOR TAPS! FABRICIO WERDUM WINS BY SUBMISSION (TRIANGLE CHOKE), ROUND 1!" - Brent Brookhouse, BloodyElbow.com
by SSreporters on Jun 27, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
There's another big winner of the night
BJJ baby!
Not only was the best fighter ever beaten with BJJ but he was beaten while in dominant position.
BJJ got a huge showcase thanks to Thompson and Werdum. And Fitch says the guard is dead!
I love BJJ! The only style in MMA that makes disadvantage seem like advantage.
The lemonade of Martial Arts. CHEERS TO BJJ.
BJJ's not dead
Wrestlers train BJJ; however, only Sambo stylists train Sambo.
Fedor needs to train BJJ.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing wrong with Sambo
It got him through against Nog more than once.
Fabricio is just that good.
by Electro Boy on Jun 27, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Nog fights
happened a while ago.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Werdum is that good, but there are many seemingly similar techniques in Sambo & BJJ, but
Many of them feel different as they are being set up due to nuances in execution.
Unless he already does so and just got overconfident based on his past experience with Nog, Fedor would definitely benefit from adding BJJ training, but at this point in his career, probably only with someone already well versed in both.
by BigDNotDallas on Jun 27, 2010 9:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he also said
“You are either getting up or getting on top, forget about pulling of submissions from your back nowadays”
He also said
“unless you are Demian Maia or Shinya Aoki forget about it”
Surely Werdum is of that ilk
but wouldnt Fedor
fall into the ilk of most dominant top game ground and pounders?
Fedro let that arm out there for just way too long, forget about pedigree and hype, you can’t do those mistakes and stay the best.
I'm a lover not a fighter
The difference between Fedor in the Nog fights and Fedor was last was Fedor didn’t “play” around in Big Nog’s guard. Yeah, he hung out there but he respected it. He chose his shots carefully.
Last night, he just wild n out and Werdum made him pay.
by Applejack McNeil on Jun 27, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That
is a different discussion.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but
He has never fought under the Unified Rules where elbows were allowable. That significantly affects both top and bottom game plans, whether in open or closed guard.
by BigDNotDallas on Jun 27, 2010 10:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
To be serious,
FW is unresolved: Aldo and Sandro are teammates.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:19 PM EDT reply actions
good point
without the omigawa decision, my opinion would matter more.
He’s a big fish in a shallow pond over there.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Was anyone else bored with Fedor and Strikeforce before this loss?
This keeps it interesting and might attract more fans?
I was bored
I’m not interested in an immediate rematch. I’d be interested if Werdum beat Overeem first and Fedor beat someone else first. Or, better yet, if Fedor beats Overeem before rematching Werdum.
Only one fight left on his contract though.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Bored in 69 seconds? Man, kids these days have no attention span.
by Electro Boy on Jun 27, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He said 'before this loss'
Didn’t you read it?
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be nice, but its more likely that Fedor fights Bigfoot next to finish his SF contract.
Then after Werdum loses to Overeem, Dana will swoop in and sign Werdum.
by BigDNotDallas on Jun 27, 2010 10:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Everyone has failed to mention that what strikeforce did bring last night, was a bunch of fights that were just if not more entertaining than alot of UFC cards, regardless of who won or lost
by pandaboy99 on Jun 27, 2010 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Highlights of the night
Cung Le’s victory via side check kick. Thompson’s “come back” submission at the end of the fight. Overeem’s interview. The ruthless female referee (only another woman could let the poor girl withstand that much punishment before stopping the fight). A finally, the submission of the last emperor. A card to remember.
I'm a lover not a fighter
Thank God its over
Now maybe all the Fedor d#k riders will calm down. I thought this fight may have gone this way but never had the balls to say it so I cant say I told you so. However…. I still think fedor should fight Overeem just cause I think overeem / Werdum would be more fun to watch. Werdum just proved once again how great BJJ is as a fighting style. S#k it Fitch.lol
by fightersvizion on Jun 27, 2010 12:22 PM EDT reply actions
the guard works fine when you dive head first into the world BJJ champ’s guard 3×.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
by Ubernoober on Jun 27, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What's the big deal?
Why are people making such a huge deal. People aren’t perfect they all lose eventually. It’s not like he’s cocky and talks crap to fighters if anything he’s just shrugged it off and moved on just like everyone else needs to do. Just bc a guy lost once, doesn’t mean they still can’t be the best. Every top ranked fighter in any class doesn’t have a perfect record, to have lost only twice in over 30 fights is still a fantastic accomplishment. 28 win streak props to Fedor, win or lost he is still a great fighter!
by Michael Murdaugh on Jun 27, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It's a big deal
No one is saying Fedor is not one of the best ever. They’re saying his stock just dropped a ton. And it has. If this were the NYSE and Fedor was a listed company trading therein, he just lost a $50 Billion patent lawsuit. His stock has adjusted accordingly.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
You’ve completely missed the point.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jun 27, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
More to it than just that
UFC is also a huge winner because now if Fedor wants to fight the top UFC talent, UFC will get Fedor at an incredible discount. White said he offered him more than any fighter in history has ever been offered. Now he won’t even have to offer Fedor anything special and if Fedor declines what he’s offered, well no problem, he was exposed in his last 3 fights, lost his most recent one, and would have been an underdog against Lesnar anyway, so good look finding a promotion willing to pay you anything.
Strikeforce just got their legs chopped off from under them.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
So did M-1
That’s co-promotion for you, lol.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I would argue the same amount of people or more would probably tune in to watch fedors next fight regardless of his loss
by pandaboy99 on Jun 27, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
And no one would disagree. I didn’t say they could expect a drop off in Showtime subscribers. I just said the exceptionalism Fedor has provided has been compromised. It has.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jun 27, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually for strikeforce now there are even more fights for fedor, he can be matched with bigfoot and other non top tens with much less resistance
sure, why not throw Hershal Walker into the mix. Bobby Lashley anyone?
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
Come on. TBA needs to fight Lashley. NO MORE DUCKING!
"Fedor is in major trouble! FEDOR TAPS! FEDOR TAPS! FABRICIO WERDUM WINS BY SUBMISSION (TRIANGLE CHOKE), ROUND 1!" - Brent Brookhouse, BloodyElbow.com
by SSreporters on Jun 27, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lashley- Perfect
Lashley had said that he only wanted a title shot or Fedor or other top HW’s. Why not give Lashley his wish and have him fight Fedor in hisFedor’s) 1st fight back. Lashley gets his wish, Fedor gets a easy fight coming off a loss, and ultimately it sends Lashley back to pro-wrestling, or at the least away from MMA.(I’m a HUGE wrestling fan, but Lashley has no business asking for top HW’s). i’d think this would do HUGE business for SF, even if Fedor doesn’t re-sign after said fight.
There might be more fights for Fedor now (I don’t know how, but I’ll grant you the possibility) but they no longer mean anywhere near as much as they would have.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jun 27, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly
it depends on the opponent.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 27, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
As a fan, one of the things that’s fun about Strikeforce is the fact that their matchmaking is so transparent in terms of who the promotion wants to win and who it wants to lose. Not only do you get to root for your favorite fighter, you also get to root for your favorite side in the promotion wars. It’s not like the UFC where a Brock Lesnar win sets up huge matches with JDS and Cain, while a Brock Lesnar loss sets up Mir-Lesnar III and the Zuffa hype machine pushes Carwin to superstar. Even in a match like Tito-Machida, you all know that had Tito finished that triangle the UFC would have still resigned him and put him in huge money fights. But with Strikeforce, when Shields beats Hendo, Smith KO’s Cung, or Fedor taps out it means so much more than just the careers of the individual fighters involved.
that is one of the things that bothers me though.,
That and the length at which some of their roster has to wait for fights. So much of what they do seems contrived, and deliberate. People make comparisons about Dana and Vince, but this match making reminds me a lot of wrestling when they setup guys to lose only to feign Anger and frustration when they win as part of the story line. In this instance though, the results aren’t fake. Every time the favorite loses in SF there are more questions than answers, which I don’t appreciate too much as a fan.
GreenHouse
Why so black and white???
It’s official, huh. So what happens if Brock loses to Carwin, Carwin loses to Cain, Cain loses to JDS. Then who is #1? Just because Fedor loses once, that’’s it? cross your t’s and dot your i’s? That’s right, Kobe Bryant’s lakers went 82-0 this year, right? Because if they lost a game, must mean the other team is better. Come on, grow up. I’m not saying Fedor is definitely still #1, but it is a possibility he can regain that status.
So maybe the UFC is the NFL, but the way you put it, it is not set in stone and permanent. Fedor was #1 for a long time, but it wasn’t permanent. Nothing is permanent. Try shades of grey instead of these ridiculous black and white statements. Typical sports media riding the latest day’s news.
It’s official, huh. So what happens if Brock loses to Carwin, Carwin loses to Cain, Cain loses to JDS. Then who is #1?
If JDS > Cain > Carwin > Lesnar and JDS > Werdum > Fedor, then JDS is clearly #1. (> = beats)
by Jahbulon on Jun 27, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Burger King for everyone!
"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis
by duck on Jun 27, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
In the end, who cares. UFC may not have Fedor, Mo, Overeem etc but they have the vast majority of top fighters.
Every time I try to talk about UFC somebody got to pull Fedor out they ass. That’s they one. That’s they one! Fedor. Fedor. Let me tell you something once and for all. Fedor is good, but compared to BROCKLESNAR, Fedor ain’t shit.
by Electro Boy on Jun 27, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahaha
Fedor: 32-2-0
Brock: 4-1-0
get used to it, Fedor in yo face, for ever.
by nostraboris on Jun 27, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
and a herring and a min soo kim away……and winning the most prestigious HW belt in MMA in only his 4th fight away. I love how people act like that is such a pedestrian achievement.
Jan Finney is the toughest fighter in MMA
by Earl Montclair on Jun 27, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re both 4-1 over their last five fights, though.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jun 27, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d put Brock’s resume against Fedor’s for that stretch.
Brock: Kim (bum win), Mir (loss), Herring, Couture, Mir
Fedor: Choi (bum win), Sylvia, Arlovski, Werdum (loss)
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
And Lesnar showed more in his loss than Fedor did in his.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jun 28, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not here to argue with you, but if he goes up, who falls out? Are you going to tell me that Fedor, Brock, Carwin, and JDS shouldn’t be higher ranked? And that leaves Werdum, Mir, Overreem, Velasquez and Nog to fight over the 5th spot.
Lets not have the Matt Serra effect here where he jumps 10 spots b/c he won a fight no one expected him to win.
#2.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jun 27, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
If Werdum had dominated Fedor in all areas for at least 1.5 rounds, I could make a case for perhaps #3, but everyone knows that in addition to his body of work, Fedor wins that fight probably 8/10 times going forward.
MMaMath doesn’t work, but its pretty safe to say that Werdum is behind Lesnar, Fedor, Carwin, JDS, Overeem and Cain, although some can be reasonably debated.
If Werdum is going above Fedor based only on this win, then JDS should be ahead of Werdum.
But then again, Jon Jones is at #12, nevermind he would probably go at worst, 9-2 against those “ranked” higher than him…
by BigDNotDallas on Jun 27, 2010 10:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
get a clue people
Fedor had his first loss this decade, and is 32-1-0. He may no longer be #1 at this very moment, but his record outshines the UFC heavyweight division, as does his demeanor.
If losing one out of 32 is such a big deal, what does that make Brock if he loses his 5th fight?
I love JDS, Lesnar, Cain, but in the hysterical flavor of the month culture, they are all one loss away from oblivion. I don’t get why people gotta pick a side. Is it because they want to be feel like they are a part of Dana’s plan when he routs out the smaller organizations?
The UFC has great fighters, and more importantly: the budget to brainwash all the nimrods on here into beieving who matters. Unfortunately for Werdum, Strikeforce will always be bumbling idiots when it comes to strategy. They are incapable of changing the narrative to the rise of Werdum, rather then the demise of Fedor.
“as does his demeanor.” – irrelevant to where he stands in the division
“If losing one out of 32 is such a big deal, what does that make Brock if he loses his 5th fight?” – Clearly not #1 and possibly not top 5
“I love JDS, Lesnar, Cain, but in the hysterical flavor of the month culture, they are all one loss away from oblivion. I don’t get why people gotta pick a side.” – Rankings should be in the here and now. A loss drops you, wins build you up. It’s not about picking sides. I love Fedor but the winner of Brock/Carwin has a better case in here-and-now rankings than him to be #1. This isn’t saying they’re better historically, nor is it saying “they’re a better fighter overall” it’s simply saying “in the here and now, they are ranked higher”
I wish people could think more of college football rankings and realize that just because a team ends up lower than another team because of a loss it doesn’t mean that that team is better, it just means that ranking by recent accomplishments puts one above the other.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 27, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
agreed
Absolute rankings in MMA are pretty subjective.
In my world, there is best right now, and best of all time.
Fedor may not be the first anymore, he’s definitely still the latter.
In heavyweight MMA:
All Time = Fedor (based on record, size of opponents, and length of career).
Right Now = whoever holds the UFC belt, with Werdum, Overeem, and yes Fedor still contending.
Win for the UFC but how much win for Strikeforce in this?
In relation to how this will effect the M-1 relationship. How much does this help Strikeforce?
I mean Fedor has 1 fight left on his deal so I’m assuming Strikeforce will do that fight under the co-promotion deal currently in place. However after that Strikeforce won’t be caving to co-promotion demands to get Fedor anymore right? At least it wouldn’t make sense to me to do so.
Or is there any chance Coker can come right back at M-1 before his next fight and say we aren’t happy with the deal now and ask to renegotiate with M-1 like M-1 did with them when they weren’t happy?
Just BE.
Also Strikeforce should go ahead and give Werdum the title shot like they were promoting the winner of that fight would get. Then give Fedor someone like Bigfoot Silva for his last fight on this deal. They give Fedor the rematch and he wins he could gain back some of the negotiating leverage for M-1 on the next contract. Let Werdum have his promised title shot against Overeem and in the process keep some of that negotiating power out of M-1’s hands till you get another deal done that Strikeforce will stand by with out renegotiating midway through.
Just BE.
As ive said before im glad it was werdum and not brett rodgers.. it takes a world class champion at something to takedown fedor.. not a tire changer
That's fighter bashing
Changing tires is a great base for MMA.
by Electro Boy on Jun 27, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Got Brett Rogers a pretty good payday
"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis
by duck on Jun 27, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of Rogers...
I like and respect Fedor a great deal but was not impressed with him during the Rogers fight. A lot of people defended him after that performance but I wonder what those people would have said if the Rogers fight came AFTER the Werdum loss. If his next fight has him struggling in the first round against an opponent who would have been destroyed a few years ago, I wonder how much more critical people will be.
by BurtBacharach on Jun 28, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
not a tire changer
That’s a comment a douchebag would make, and his other douche-friends would look at him like “dude, you’re going too far”.
I'm a lover not a fighter
by spectaa on Jun 27, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
He's saying...
that it’s a pointless shot at Rogers. That’s like…if Lesnar beats Carwin saying “it takes more than an engineer to beat a champion”
Fighters deserve to be thought of as fighters, not disrespected for the way that they provide money for their family before fighting can pay the bills.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 27, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
it takes more than an engineer to beat a champion
I also think the “tire changer” comment is out of line, but this hypothetical is just funny.
by Cannon Jacques on Jun 27, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
end of the day, I want to see good fights, not just good fights between what someone ranks them as top 10...
strikeforce is NOT the ufc, and the other way around…As stated in the first post…people said no competition for fedor, yet coker puts together a fight that gets fedor beat, hendo was beat…king mo beat mousasi…
Its lame that either way people would say the UFC comes out on top/.//Fedor wins and strikeforce cant provide the competition, fedor loses, and strikeforce loses a grip hold on the top of the HW division…Meh
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
by SDChief on Jun 27, 2010 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Its lame that either way people would say the UFC comes out on top/.//Fedor wins and strikeforce cant provide the competition, fedor loses, and strikeforce loses a grip hold on the top of the HW division…
True, but that’s what happens when you have a shallow talent pool. And that’s what happens when you try to compete with the big dogs before you are ready.
Dana was right, Strikeforce could have been successful as a smaller, niche league. However, they tried propping themselves up as an equal alternative to the UFC, and thus far, Murphy’s law has kicked their ass.
Strikeforce marketed Fedor was unbeatable
He finally got defeated. Where do they go from here? Like it or not his share has dropped dramatically.
"Fedor is in major trouble! FEDOR TAPS! FEDOR TAPS! FABRICIO WERDUM WINS BY SUBMISSION (TRIANGLE CHOKE), ROUND 1!" - Brent Brookhouse, BloodyElbow.com
This story would've been much bigger if his belt was actually lost in the process.
"Fedor is in major trouble! FEDOR TAPS! FEDOR TAPS! FABRICIO WERDUM WINS BY SUBMISSION (TRIANGLE CHOKE), ROUND 1!" - Brent Brookhouse, BloodyElbow.com
I don't think people were seriously debating the UFC is the NFL of MMA point
I also feel like this “debate” is a close relative to the “everything thing that happens to strikeforce that, at first glance, looks like it might damage strikeforce’s bottom line makes Dana White smile” meme, which is trite and relies on an at best high level amateurish understanding of how MMA business works. This isn’t to say that I know how MMA works, but without financial figures (which I don’t believe anyone has since these companies are either private or divisions or subsidiaries of much larger companies) many of these arguments are embarrassing wastes of everyone’s time, but that’s OK; that’s in part what internet forums are all about.
Cant fedor fight again within the next month or so? he wasnt damaged at all… werdum in fact was able to beat fedor without throwing a single punch or kick lol
Could he? Sure
See Leben, Chris.
Will he? Hell no. Negotiations to start negotiations about the legals forms used in negotiations will take at least 6 weeks with Fedor’s team.
"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis
Does that dam Wamma belt even have a backer anymore ? There offices were abandoned and there website has not been updated in over a year the last time I looked
It's still promoting Fedor/Rogers...
they’re dead. The belt is floating around just for shits more than anything.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 28, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Kid Nate said that Dana White and the UFC lost as well.
How do I feel about this?
I will have to wait for a few more contradictory articles to flesh out my feelings.
by DirtyML on Jun 27, 2010 1:19 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Well they are written by different people
so I guess that they may come from different points of view and have different ideas. Weird.
Jan Finney is the toughest fighter in MMA
by Earl Montclair on Jun 27, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't correct him
Idiocy is all have idiots have. Let him keep it.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jun 27, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know...
there are alot of us that come here regularly, that enjoy the site and all the well written articles, that enjoy the discussions, AND like to have a laugh with/at you guys too. Especially when you are in the mood to take yourselves so damn seriously.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
The real losers are the fans who thought that there was something special about someone with a near perfect record in the final stretches of his career finally lose, like watching a perfect game ruined in the ninth inning
Except it wasn't a ref/ump who blew it.
"If you go up there clueless, you're going to come back [to the dugout] clueless. It's that simple." - Nick Markakis
by duck on Jun 27, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No
Fedor wasn’t robbed of anything. He lost fair and square. Comparing it to that lost perfect game is stupid.
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
by Worldisart on Jun 27, 2010 2:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Besides he lost his perfect game to an error in the early innings.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jun 27, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That turned into an inside the park HR and he lost 1-0.
Still a no-no, right?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to go ahead and call that:
Werdum fights Overeem.
Overeem avenges his loss to Werdum.
Fedor fights Overeem and wins avenging his loss to Werdum.
Fedor retires to a chorus of Dana saying he never wanted him to begin with and Fedor never fought elite competition, while the fanboys continually overlook the great fighters Werdum and Overeem are.
alot of dominoes need to fall for that to happen.
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
Just like they were lined up for a Fedor/Overeem PPV right?
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
by Worldisart on Jun 27, 2010 2:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Unfortunately the rumors that Zeus from MiddleEasy are reporting contradict this
Rumor in the ZUFFA camp is that after last night’s loss, Dana White is no longer interested in Fedor
Fedor has one fight left on his contract and it will be used for a Fedor vs. Werdum rematch.
Instead of fighting Fedor in his second title defense, Alistair will face Bobby Lashley.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Jun 27, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Bobby Lashley?
WTF? Guess he got what he wanted, just sit out until you get a title shot.
Going from Wes Sims to Overeem is insane.
(probably all unfounded bs anyway)
My remaining ill faith in humanity
tells me that Coker isn’t that stupid. However, my deductive logic tells me he is.
I hope the cards play out and Werdum fights Overeem, then the winner of that to defend against Fedor.
C’mon Scott…make a good decision again.
Overeem will crush Werdum - like JDS did, and like a smarter Fedor should have...
Even if Fedor had fought off the submission attemps and won, I don’t think Overeem would be foolish enough to just jump into Werdum’s guard.
Now that he has seen what happened to Fedor there is NO WAY he will be baited into that.
It will look more like Mir-Nog or when Anderson cracks guys – he will just stand back and motion for him to get up before finishing Werdum on the feet…
by BigDNotDallas on Jun 27, 2010 10:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I honestly thought the debate was over a year ago, but now it’s undeniable.
UFC = NFL of MMA.
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
Are the Lions in the NFL? When did that happen? Must be an expansion team. :P
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
by RolloTomasi on Jun 27, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Update was really unnecessary....
What could possibly chance that would unseat them? At least in the US, we are brand crazy. The UFC has made no secret that building their brand is/was their business plan and it worked perfectly.
I even heard some host on ESPN radio yesterday talking about the ESPYs and how Frankie Edgar vs BJ was up for biggest upset of the year. He said, “Get over it folks, MMA is here and they are kicking down the door. There is a show on ESPN 2 now, MMA Live and it’s a great show. MMA is a legit sport and it’s time we get used to that fact.” or something along those lines.
Anything could happen.
A major scandal could bring the UFC to it’s knees. We know that they employ tactics that a lot of people don’t like. Zeus on Middleeasy wrote about how there are some sleazy behind the scenes things going on that he wouldn’t post because it wasn’t verified. You never know. Fighters could get tired of Dana and his act and go somewhere else. Mark Cuban could get into the MMA business and a lot of money and change everything.
As all the top guys start losing, and they inevitably will, the concept of who is truly great will be really cloudy. And with that comes the opportunity for someone else to make their mark.
mark cuban got into the mma business, saw how hard it was, then started broadcasting fights instead of promoting them.
He owns HDNET right?
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
speaking of HDNet, how pissed are they? 3 hours of Fedor love, only to see him tap.
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
Doesn't necessarily have to be him
it was more or less just an example. Anybody with deep pockets could decide to jump in and anything could happen.
It’s not very likely though. Cuban put his foot in the water and bailed. Successful clothing companies have tried and failed. Successful boxing promoters have tried and failed.
Add that up plus the current economic situation, and someone else trying to make a run is very unlikely.
The UFC is here to stay, they survied the 90’s, John McCain, PRIDE, Dana, they ain’t goin’ anywhere.
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
no one wants them gone, they seem to want SF and others gone, that is what I find to be lame...I want all the MMA we can get....
its too bad SF doesnt have more viewers, s
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Plus the one big thing that gets overlooked when saying some new promotion could spring up and rise to the top like the UFC did is that when the UFC rose to the top they weren’t competing with the UFC. Now any new competitor has to deal with the UFC keeping them in their place.
Just BE.
Make it official. Call CNN. Tell your friends. Give your mother a call. The UFC is the major leagues of MMA and there isn’t any debate about it.
But seriously, we should all call our mothers more often. Go ahead, do it right now. Pick up the phone, right now.
I hope they continue to gain popularity, but I also hope SF/Bellator can continue on and do what they do...entertaining fights from SF, and for bellator a tourny set up.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
I, for one welcome our new Zuffa overlords.
Welcome to the Pax Zuffa peoples.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
by Ubernoober on Jun 27, 2010 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
This post is scary good...
and that’s why Luke is Editor-in-Chief at this little home for rabble-rousers.
I’ll rec this.
is fedor as unknown as people make him out to be?
i found some interesting info regarding the amounts of page visits various wikipedia pages have gotten.
remember major business’ use this information to track trends among the masses
so the information held by the amount of hits on particular wikipedia pages is an accurate tool to trace the interests of the masses
while both brock and fedor had fights this month fedor had considerably more wikipedia page hits this month
lesnar 184812 hits
fedor 215206 hits
these numbers are consistent for both june may and april in all three months fedor’s wikipedia page recieved more visits than brocks
source
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 27, 2010 2:57 PM EDT reply actions
Brock is about to sell 1 million plus PPVs. Advantage: Brock.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
don’t underestimate the marketing machine that is the ufc
if fedors numbers and public interest are this great without the marketing machine that is the ufc
then imagine what it would be with that marketing machine behind him
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 27, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
and i’m not saying one is greater than the other
only saying that fedor is more known to the casual fan than people may think
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 27, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re getting thrown off by hyperactive MMA fans visiting Fedor’s Wiki page repeatedly to look up his opponents, win method, record, etc.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
the google trends support the wikipedia findings
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 27, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
take ppv as proof of what
i was not disputing brocks drawing power
i was not using wikipedia itself as proof of anything i was using wikipedia’s traffic as proof of public interest in fedor
i was only using FACTS like google searches wikipedia hits and other internet trends to show that fedor is more well known to the casual fan than many people give him credit for
i was only using brock lesnar as a ref. point because he is the most popular ufc fighter today and the most known to the casual fan. i was not comparing brocks selling power to fedors as the two cannot be compared at this point
i’ll use the most recognizable mixed martial artist of all time chuck liddell as a constant in this comparison of google searches to illustrate how well known fedor truly is.
once again being known does not equal ppv buys
google trends comparrison of internet searches for fedor against searches for chuck liddell
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 27, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Jonathan Willis..
You’re correct in a sense..
But ultimately what matters in the sport of MMA is your “drawing power” of the buying public, over how many people know your name..
It does no good to any promotion to house a man everyone knows, but nobody is willing to come out of pocket to see (majority speaking)..
Brock is by far the largest “draw” in MMA.. You’re misinterpreting the use of the term “draw”. Draw isn’t based on the amount of people that know of a person. Draw is based on the amount of people you can pull in to purchase events or products with your attachment too.
You’re probably correct that a lot of people know who Fedor is, more than many people have given him credit for, if we’re counting international popularity… Sadly, that doesn’t hold much weight under the current business model for MMA promoting.
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
not searces for “brock lesnar vs fedor”
but searches for “brock lesnar” and searches for “fedor”
my bad i worded that dumb
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 27, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I know absolutely nothing about Google trends and their meaning, but isn’t a search for “fedor” going to yield far less specific hits than “fedor emelianenko”? There must be 10s of millions of Fedors out there.
How about this result: http://www.google.com/trends?q=fedor+emelianenko%2C+brock+lesnar&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
Can someone explain what it means when it says Brock Lesnar, 2.5 and Fedor Emelianenko 1.0?
i’m not really sure what the 2.5 vs the 1.0 means
however most people can’t spell emelianenko especially not the “casual” fan
if you’ll notice when you do the google trends for just “fedor” it brings up the news points for various fedor events but when you google trend “fedor emelianenko” it does not show these. that’s because when people refer to fedor they usually do so with simply his first name
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 27, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
gsp’s google searches blow both out of the water
by Johnathan Willis on Jun 27, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
This is why the UFC brand is so important
The unbeatable gets beaten. The huge underdog wins. etc. This is not the first or the last time the mma world has had its mind blown. You can’t have your business depend on this or that fighter.
But, there will ALWAYS be compelling match ups. And the one organization that can consistently put on compelling match ups is the UFC
Werdum is no.1 not Brock or Carwin
Werdum beat the no.1 HW and P4P fighter, to be the man you must beat the man and Werdum did it therefore he’s the man and the no.1 HW in the world..
He’s the linear heavyweight champ, but that isn’t how rankings are done
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 27, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is the same guy that had his lights turned out the last time he stepped into the octagon.
by MattParker117 on Jun 27, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That's like saying if #23 Iowa beat #1 Penn State
Iowa deserves to be #1.
"Fedor is in major trouble! FEDOR TAPS! FEDOR TAPS! FABRICIO WERDUM WINS BY SUBMISSION (TRIANGLE CHOKE), ROUND 1!" - Brent Brookhouse, BloodyElbow.com
by SSreporters on Jun 27, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Perfect analogy...
NFW is Werdum #1 now…
He’s somewhere behind Lesnar, Carwin, Fedor, Overeem, Cain and JDS…
by BigDNotDallas on Jun 27, 2010 10:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think he's above Overeem
Much more impressive resume and oh he beat him.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 28, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed...
fought stiffer competition and has a win over Fedor as well as a direct head to head win.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 28, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure how Dana White and UFC is a winner in all of this. Fedor got caught in a sub just like thousands of fighters before. Fedor losing didn’t help Brock Lesnar develop martial arts skills. It also didn’t post credible win on the non-existent resumes of Carwin and Cain. IMO, it puts more pressure on UFC to actually prove Lesnar can fight versus takedown and lay on someone. The death of talent in the UFC is concerning, as I personally rate Werdum, Overeem and Fedor at the top of the mountain given Lesnar still doesn’t know how to fight yet
Fedor got caught in a sub just like thousands of fighters before
Exactly. With the loss Fedor’s mystic aura disappears and he becomes just like any other fighter – beatable. People used to say UFC had the best fighters in the world, except for Fedor – now they’ll say they have the best fighters in the world period.
IMO, it puts more pressure on UFC to actually prove Lesnar can fight versus takedown and lay on someone.
Just to clarify, when you say “take down and lay on someone” you are referring to Lesnar taking people down and smashing them in the face with his lunchboxes until the referee steps in to stop the fight and not take down and lay and pray to a decision tactics, right?
Why do the UFC and Strikeforce have to get compared as equals?
I never doubted that the UFC is the “major leagues” of MMA and I don’t care about that. I see entertaining competitive fights on Strikeforce and am glad that there is another decent MMA organization holding good events. They have some decent fighters and the middleweight tournament should be good. To me personally Fedor losing makes things more exciting. I still don’t think that Brock is the number one heavyweight in the world until he gets more fights.
A major league doesn't work for combat sports
There’s too much Talent outside the UFC that doesn’t get picked up.
Look at Boxing and see how you manage a proper combat sport.
In this case
The sweet science >MMA
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