Is Fedor Emelianenko, the Greatest Heavyweight Ever, Fighting in the Wrong Weight Class?
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 1:58 AM EDT
in MMA News
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Fedor Emelianenko has dominated the competition for years looking much like he did tonight. The man famous for his ice cream cones, well, looks like a man who is intimately familiar with ice cream cones. Fedor weighed in for his main event contest with Fabricio Werdum at 229 pounds. And that was a soft 229 pounds.
If you were describing Fedor's physique in a single word it might be "doughy." Tonight he was sporting love handles that would be too much for even the mammoth pawed Shane Carwin to grab in a single handful. In the past, when Fedor was younger, quicker, and stronger, this wasn't a huge issue. Against today's crop of giant heavyweights? It can make all the difference.
We saw Fedor get bulled around the cage by a green Brett Rogers. Tonight, he looked like a much smaller man than Fabricio Werdum. And, scarily enough, at 6-4 and 238 well proportioned pounds, Werdum is not a big heavyweight. It's no longer 2005-and Fedor Emelianenko is no longer the fighter he once was. To compete realistically against the best fighters of the modern era, Emelianenko needs to be physical equals with the man staring across the cage at him. In short, Fedor needs to drop to 205 pounds.
Kazushi Sakuraba was the same way. The Japanese phenom won a UFC Heavyweight Tournament at 185 pounds and proceeded to smackdown the competition in Pride despite giving up ten or more pounds in many bouts Only when he met up with the fearsome Wanderlei Silva did Saku learn that size did indeed matter.
Like Sakuraba and Shamrock, Fedor was in another league. He was good enough to get away with giving away height and girth. He was skilled enough to win without being in peak physical condition. When Fedor returns, if Fedor returns, I hope it is a new Emelianenko. I hope we see some abs. Maybe he can trade in the ice cream for some yogurt and make a comeback at 205 pounds against another light heavyweight looking for redemption- Dan Henderson.
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Him at HW is what is soo cool about Fedor.
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
I disagree
Fedor isn’t Saku, fighting in shape a weight class or two above where he should be. He is a little fat kid who can’t give up donuts during his training camps.
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
RIP Sherdog (6/26/10)
Saku was never in the greatest shape and hated training. Later he was too beat up to train.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I love how Fedor went from Baddest man on planet, to “a little fat kid who can’t give up donuts during his training camps.” in one day….
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
I'm prone to hyperbole, what can I say
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
RIP Sherdog (6/26/10)
Well, you do have an exclamation point in your name...
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
The thing is, these people always felt like this, they were just hiding in the corners waiting for a chance to let fly. They just don’t realize that they are still overreacting.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
I might have to take a brief BE hiatus! Still haven’t heard any comment from the President or the Joint Chiefs regarding this attack on our collective psyche. People are rending their garments and gnashing their teeth, while others are giggling maniacally and looking back over their smartass remarks about Fedor and congratulating themselves on seeing through “the facade”! There’ll be no living with Dana after this…
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jun 27, 2010 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions
So now there is no
rooting for a fighter in MMA? WTF has this world come to.
I know, Bolth Fedor lovrs and Haters love to over exaggerate when talking about him, I was happy to not have to hear the Fedor nuthuggers go on and on but now I will have to hear the Fedor haters. I really don’t know which side is worse ?
they are both silly. He’s a man, he lost, he’s still one of the greats.
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
by RolloTomasi on Jun 27, 2010 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The vast majority of the great boxers of the past had losses on their record.It depends on who you fight and how you come back from it.
How long is the average MMA career anyway?Top level boxers usually go 10-15 years from debut to retirement.I realise it is different in MMA where you can be fighting for a title after only 5 fights.
Fedor has done so much already,he is probably near the end.Hard to stay motivated when you have been doing it so long i would think.
Very true...
but on the flip side, Fedor’s fans have been running amok for over a decade now and you can’t expect those that have been annoyed by them to let this pass so easily.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
by Razreshat on Jun 27, 2010 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
^this
you would think Fedor was the second coming
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
RIP Sherdog (6/26/10)
I can't comment on his training
but the man never sported a beer gut to a card he headlined.
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
RIP Sherdog (6/26/10)
Plus he’s a heavy drinker and smoker.
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
That’s one thing I always have loved about Saku, he never put down the cancers.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Nick Diaz anyone?
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
Charles Bennett
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
RIP Sherdog (6/26/10)
Except Charles Bennett kinda sucks.
USMC vet. MMA nut. Fedor tapped in 69 seconds.....deal with it.
Pain don't hurt...
he beat the guy that beat diaz :D
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
RIP Sherdog (6/26/10)
Didn't Saku....
fight for over 90 minutes that one time at that one place?
I’m just sayin.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 27, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I think going 7 years as the #1 HW is not to bad for a little fat kid who likes to eat his donuts now ?
It was impressive while it lasted
I can’t see Fedor beating the 250+lb’ers anymore though, and would prefer to see him cut out the donuts and make 205. But that’s just me…
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
RIP Sherdog (6/26/10)
good idea
but I don’t think Fedor will ever fight at LHW, it’s a mental thing
follow me twitter.com/GotaHemmi
by Brian Hemminger on Jun 27, 2010 2:00 AM EDT reply actions
I have my doubts about this success of this, no matter how logical
I just can’t have a lot of faith in guy who has never cut weight ever managing a successful weight cut at this point in his career.
little early for that
It’s not like he got KTFO or anything
follow me twitter.com/GotaHemmi
by Brian Hemminger on Jun 27, 2010 2:02 AM EDT reply actions
god dammit
Reply fail to DK_Monster
follow me twitter.com/GotaHemmi
by Brian Hemminger on Jun 27, 2010 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedor isthe same fight he has always been. Tonight he got bested by a guy who he robably thought he could out grapple. Fedor made a career of out smarting fighters, and beating them at their own game.Tonight he did not have the skill toput away a very game Werdum.
ehh
I wouldn’t say his gameplan was to get blasted in the face and pray Fedor jumped into his guard right as he was recovering fully, but I see what you mean. I’m sure he was hoping for a takedown or something
follow me twitter.com/GotaHemmi
by Brian Hemminger on Jun 27, 2010 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You think he got blasted in the face...
I’d put even money that he went down on purpose to bait Fedor into his guard.
Which would be true irony since many assume that Fedor in the past has played a bit of possum to bait opponents into making mistakes.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
There's really no way of knowing for sure
But if it was, it was probably the best possible strategy for Fedor. That’s a plus game planning. Shogun would be proud.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
I would like to see Fedor at LHW.
Imagine Anderson Silva vs Fedor. Not as appealing as it once was, but still pretty damn, as far as I’m concerned.
Working overtime tonigh huh Snowden?
But anyways, this fight didn’t really show he was too small for Heavyweight. He jumped into a submission. If you were going to make this claim you’d bring it up after the Rogers’ fight which he won. You don’t just preemptively drop a weight class because you think your small. By that logic Edgar wouldn’t be the lightweight champ. Don’t make Fedor pull a Swick until it makes sense to do so.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
The fight doesn’t show he’s too small. Looking at him does.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But why should he change weight classes if he is successful at his current class?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
The question is how succesful he can be going forward when he is tubby, small, and out of shape.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess my argument is just don’t mess with a sure thing. Who knows what he would look like with out a speed and technical advantage he had at HW (with the exception of BJJ I guess). I go back to Frankie Edgar, had he dropped down to Featherweight, which is probably his natural weight, he wouldn’t be the champ.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Or maybe he would be-and would carve out a long career there instead of being a transitional champ.*
*Crystal Balling.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough. I know you are being speculative. I just don’t know if its a risk I would take if I was Fedor.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Maybe not
Fun to think about though.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Out of shape?
The guy keeps up a ridiculous pace and has never gassed. Why is he “out of shape” just because he’s not chiseled?
by xfreekx on Jun 27, 2010 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
definitely not out of shape
but if he dieted better he could easily make lhw.
by Body Triangle on Jun 27, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
EXCUSES.
I’ll type it again. EXCUSES.
Anderson would work the dude.
"Death, so called, is a thing which makes men weep, And yet a third of life is passed in sleep."
- Lord Byron
by MyFightWiffaCheeto on Jun 27, 2010 2:06 AM EDT reply actions
And you’re basing this on exactly how many fights that Anderson has against fast heavyweights and top grapplers?
by Tim the Enchanter on Jun 27, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Good write up..
I often mentioned to some friends this week if the new domesticated life could have an effect on his performance..
Not that it had any benefiting factor, but it was food for thought.. He did seem a little “looser” than normal tonight in the weight department..
LHW would be ideal for his size, but again the problem lay in that the UFC possesses all the top LHW talent.. Fedor is at a fork in a few roads.. Far from dead, but he has some important decisions ahead of him in the next few weeks.. I predict he stays at HW, does his final contract in SF and then retires to married life..
Was this loss tonight a mere sign of his mental state ?? There were many questions surrounding this fight about his retirement and talks of him winding down.. Perhaps there was more to it than just talks and it leaked into the actual fight itself.
He seemed determined to finish this fight early.. Perhaps he was nervous about dragging this fight out. He didn’t show reserve like his normal resolve.. I still think his mental state (desire to fight) has been deteriorating since his marriage… Just my personal opinion..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I meant to say...
He does his final fight on this contract and then heads off to retirement..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I think I saw some things about why he lost
But I’m saving them for my fanpost
follow me twitter.com/GotaHemmi
by Brian Hemminger on Jun 27, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedor got caught being sloppy with a triangle from a world class jiu jitsu champion.. weight had nothing to do with this
Thats the bottom line on what happend. He got way to excited after Werdum was droped and got caught for his stupid ass mistake = THE END
In a way, though, isn’t that the point? Fedor has an enormous toolbox at his disposal, but the best thing he ha going was his fighting smarts. That got blown out the window tonight. Not saying they’re gone forever, but if they are questionable, what about the rest of his game? Especially against some of these younger (meaning Cain and, fighting age-wise, Brock), bigger, talented heavies.
by Tom Flynn on Jun 27, 2010 2:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Honestly, people make too big a deal out of this i think
It’s not like Fedor didn’t often fight guys smaller/about the same size as him. Most if his best wins are against similarly sized guys. And when he did fight giants they were usually unskilled jokes.
Didn’t Semmy spend like 98% of that fight on his back though? If anything that’s on Fedor for no subbing a k-1 fighter.
Come on...
….Semmy Schilt was the King of Pancrase!
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Semmy was skinny 24something lbs when they fought.
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jun 27, 2010 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Only if he comes to the UFC.
Seeing Fedor against Strikeforce’s crop of LHWs would make me sad.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 2:08 AM EDT reply actions
Nobody’s said anything to be, but I’m going to assume that it’s because I shamelessly shilled something I posted on another site. Which, for the record, I didn’t know was a no-no, if it is in fact a no-no.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I sent you an email
It was a mistake.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Reposted
You win this round, Snowden
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I lost badly. Was trying to rec actually.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Now THAT"S an exciting prospect
Much rather see Fedor vs Shogun/Machida/Anderson etc, then vs Brock/Carwin.
Size had nothing to do with the loss tonight.Fighting like a donk had everything to do with it.
Check out my MMA highlight videos!
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by Brian Mayes on Jun 27, 2010 2:08 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Size is always a factor as he scrambles and tries to move a bigger body. Of course the comment indicates you didn’t really read what I wrote. It’s not about this fight. It’s about seeing the best Fedor possible.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Which makes it complete conjecture.
Just a guess but I’m assuming Fedor was one of the most successful fighters MMA has ever seen precisely because at HW, nobody could match his speed. This would obviously change at 205, especially where a nice array of great wrestlers (who are not Hammer House belts on the ground), and strikers exist.
Fedor would have probably still enjoyed high levels of success at 205, but I see him as a guy getting stuck in rock-paper-scissor type scenarios (where he matches up well with guys like Quinton, and Rashad, but not Shogun and Machida) instead of the guy who owned a division for nearly a decade. Frankly I’d still pick Fedor to beat Brock (unless Brock proves to have a ridiculous chin), but I’d also expect him to lose to Cain, Cigano, and maybe Carwin.
People overplay the “HW’s are too big now” card. Brock and Carwin (the two guys associated with this image of successful HW’s as giants) have seen brief success, but I predict they’ll be brief. I think Cain and Cigano are both better fighters than Carwin or Lesnar, and will prove to be the true elite in the upcoming months, and neither are especially big HW’s: especially Cain who like Fedor, is soft and benefits in MMA just as he did in wrestling from being the faster man.
by David Castillo on Jun 27, 2010 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Quote fail (was responding to this)
It’s not about this fight. It’s about seeing the best Fedor possible.
by David Castillo on Jun 27, 2010 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Which makes it complete conjecture.
Yes. Yes it was.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions
It be easier to buy into this argument if
Fedor was man handled tonight or his cardio was bad.
Perhaps if he ever fights Overeem we can could get a much better answer as to weather he is too small for the the super athletic heavyweights of today.
"Deng is fired" - Neil Funk
by RogersPark Kris on Jun 27, 2010 2:09 AM EDT reply actions
It's just Rocky III
He was so successful for so long. He’ll be back and maybe 10 pounds lighter. Hey, he did knock werdum on his ass. that’s how the triangle was put on, hellooooooo. anyone gets submitted, or k.o’ed. Just took a while for him. I’m waiting for his next fight.
Watch the replay
Werdum slipped on his ass.Fedor didn’t knock him down.
Check out my MMA highlight videos!
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He didn’t slip, He baited him in.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
haha it is kind of a big difference
Jan Finney is the toughest fighter in MMA
by Earl Montclair on Jun 27, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude,watch the fight again.Fedor starts swinging,hits Werdum on the shoulder,Werdum backs up fast and slips and falls.Fedor dives in and basically falls head first into a triangle.
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Your slip and fall looks a lot like a guy pretending to be hurt and suckering a fool in.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
It ended up working out that way,but in reality,Werdum slipped and fell.It wasn’t some master gameplanning.It was the way the fight played out.
Check out my MMA highlight videos!
http://www.dailymotion.com/WheelchairBandit
Whatever. BJJ guys do an awful lot of “slip and falling” then.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Looks like he caught three shots to the face to me.
I’m not sure whether he was baiting Fedor or not, but he definitely caught a few punches.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
Maybe just two.
I can’t tell if that first right landed in his armpit or his jaw.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
Thank you.
I watched it over again in HD and it’s even better illustrated on a big screen.
Just watched it again
Left jab, right uppercut, left hook. Werdum didn’t exactly fire off a stellar combination with his head down like a 2nd grade school boy. Fedors punches landed. A few missed, but he took Werdums right hand to the side of the head and kept firing. No slip. No bait. He fights well off his back, obviously. He’s an experienced black belt in bjj. I can’t wait for the rematch.
Werdum outsmarted Fedor. I think Werdum wasn’t hurt or even caught with a significant punch. I think he played possum and fell on his butt to goad Fedor into his guard. And Fedor fell for it, because he isn’t afraid to be in anyone’s guard.
See my above post.
The three key punches didn’t land perfectly like a Marciano knock out punch but they were landed enough to put down Werdum. Werdum did what he trained to do. Ground game.
I always hate the weight debates that occur in MMA.
To an extent, weight obviously plays a part in a fight. But if you have the skill then it can always be overcome. I imagine someone like Anderson Silva fighting Fedor at whatever weight Fedor wanted and winning that fight.
I guess it was a weird bit of hubris that got him stuck there.
Jan Finney is the toughest fighter in MMA
by Earl Montclair on Jun 27, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Whether the submission was caused by Fedor being careless, Werdum expecting the aggression or whatever, the outcome is no different to any other submission finish. One fighter was able to use his skill to out position the other. Its amazing to think that in a sport where such subtle mistakes can end the fight, Fedor was able to go on the streak he did.
But, as they say, all good things come to an end……and so ends the winning streak of the last emperor.
Fedor....dead?
Fedor IS dead.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 27, 2010 2:15 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
rec
not for Fedor being dead but for the Simpsons reference
Yo, I'm smokin herbals till it hurts you
I keep your daughter way out past her curfew
Fedor would never admit his size is an issue
and thus will never drop to LHW.
Honestly, I don’t see him being more successful at 205. His big advantages at heavyweight included his explosiveness and reflexes compared to the lumbering guys in the class. I really do not have high hopes for him at 205 against the top 5 in the world at the class.
I think he’s as athletic as anyone at 205. Or was. It’s hard to tell, but it sure seems like his physical tools have diminished. I guess age haunts us all.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if his tools are anywhere at all – he’s just fighting a new breed of huge-ass heavyweights that know what the hell they’re doing (to varying degrees over his last two fights). Fedor at 205 would be nothing short of fascinating.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I do not think he is as athletic as Rashad Evans, Quinton Jackson, Anderson Silva, Shogun, Jon Jones, Phil Davis, or King Mo. I think his speed is accentuated against the slow heavyweights, and he would look a lot slower down at 205. Then again, since he obviously won’t be in the UFC, does it matter?
The quality of fighter is just so much better at 205. I think he could potentially make a run there, sure, but I don’t think his chances are better there than at heavyweight.
Tonight didn’t show me he needs to leave heavyweight. All it showed me is he fought another very capable fighter, and got submitted…he is like any other great fighter—he is fallible. I’m positive if he had fought a slew of top 10 contenders every 3-4 months since 2003 without any Goodridges or Zulus this would have happened before tonight. There are so many ways to lose in MMA, it was bound to happen.
by Michael Rome on Jun 27, 2010 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Oh, he might be in the UFC now
His ability to demand co-promotion just took a precipitous dive.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
No, it won’t happen. All the concessions for things like sambo and IP rights are going to disappear, and their offer will go way down. There are too many egos—it was never about counter promotion.
by Michael Rome on Jun 27, 2010 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Rome's list of more "Athletic" fighters
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you white, you Ben Affleck.
You black, you explosive.
by Electro Boy on Jun 27, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
They voice of reason, thank you. 100% truth in
that statement .
Why cut weight when the guy is going to retire soon enough anyway? The people in his corner looked like their best friend had died when he lost but Fedor didn’t seem to care one way or the other, even for someone as emotionless as him that is sort of telling. Instead of wondering what would be if Fedor got a ripped body I have to wonder what would we see if Fedor actually liked MMA to start with?
You people sound like everyone
saying Rashad should drop after losing to Machida. It was ONE loss.
Cause there's only one, and that's me
You understand? for all that fighting, you understand
That sucka think he good, that sucka think he can whoop me
And i know he can't whoop me, Ay boy, the n**** whole style is chump
by S.C. Michaelson on Jun 27, 2010 2:24 AM EDT reply actions
It isn’t because of a loss. It’s suggested because both Fedor and Rashad are both criminally undersized.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
What you are saying makes sense to me dude. Is it like some sort of weird ego beating to a fighter to drop down a weight class or something?
Jan Finney is the toughest fighter in MMA
by Earl Montclair on Jun 27, 2010 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Think about it
You’re basically saying “I’m too small for a division I’ve owned for a decade”
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I just meant fighters in general, not specifically Fedor. Guess I should have been more specific
Jan Finney is the toughest fighter in MMA
by Earl Montclair on Jun 27, 2010 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Only the most humble and confident
Would admit that to themselves, then to the world. Probably he’ll come back looking like a bowling ball and fight Butterbean.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions
But what if he’s too slow to fight at 205?
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Jun 27, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i meeean
he owned a legitimately for 7-8 years…the last 2-3 years…hong man choi?
by Body Triangle on Jun 27, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Regardless of who he lost to or if he never lost
The point remains the same. And remains valid IMO
Jan Finney is the toughest fighter in MMA
by Earl Montclair on Jun 27, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
It would be hard for him to be more successful at light-heavyweight than he was at heavyweight if he had never lost
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
This is true. I would think he might be up for giving it a go, but i guess in an attempt to expand on your legacy you risk tarnishing it. I think this dilemma is part of what kept him out of the UFC too
Jan Finney is the toughest fighter in MMA
by Earl Montclair on Jun 27, 2010 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions
great point
absolutely – brock is too big and athletic for anyone he fights, it takes a technical and intelligent fighter to beat him
fedor belongs at HW. A 230lbs man is still a big man, especially with the nasty fighting skill set that fedor has which is complemented by his speed and power.
you shouldnt judge a book by its cover. not everyone has gsp’s genetic make-up. IMO too many fighters cut weight. They look starved. From my personal experience, you lose a lot of strength and stamina when you compete at an unnatural weight
Good point
Look at Larry Holmes. He always had a little extra around the gut. But he destroyed Mike “Hercules” Weaver. Tyson gets knocked out by Buster Douglas. Cabbage knocked out pretty much everyone in the top ten for a while. There WERE some beasts around then so don’t tell me the division was weak back then.
Fedor best weapon is his speed. He drops down to light heavyweight and he’ll lose that edge (in the UFC). He may get away with it in Strikeforce with the likes of Dan Henderson. I actually think King Mo is kinda slow too, he may tee off on him too. He won’t be fighting much longer I believe, so he might as well just stay at heavyweight.
Snowden should drop to Fightlinker.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse... again.
I’m sorry, drop to Fightlinker?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t worry. He just means a drop in pay, prestige, and audience. Besides all that, it’s almost like the sites are equals. :)
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
damn. top shelf hatin’.
Jan Finney is the toughest fighter in MMA
by Earl Montclair on Jun 27, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BE pays all its writers? Does Anton get payed? Wait, fightlinker pays all its writers? Now that’s the crazy part.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
No, they do it because they "looooooooooove animals, stupid"
Jan Finney is the toughest fighter in MMA
by Earl Montclair on Jun 27, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
“Drop in pay” implies, somehow, that I get paid. You’ve confused hlebtasic (that name makes even less sense now that I’ve typed it out).
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I could explain it, but it still wouldn’t make sense and I would look like an asshole.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Been there.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If one of us drops-guess which one it will be?
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s very telling that Fedor came very close to getting armbarred on his way down, escaped, and then got submitted with ease. It tells me that it wasn’t anything resembling a fluke—he was going to get submitted on the ground in this fight. If he survived that triangle, it was only going to be a matter of time.
I fully believe that he mistakenly thought that dominating in Nogueira’s guard meant that Werdum would have nothing for him on the ground. Werdum’s JJ accomplishments are far more impressive than Nogueira’s, and I think he paid for his arrogance about his alleged submission invincibility.
by Michael Rome on Jun 27, 2010 3:15 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
Exactly
Fedor believed what the majority of folks on the internet believed-because he beat up Nogueira 6 years ago,that he would have no problem with Werdum.This despite the fact that he was swept and put in the worst keylock ever by Mark Hunt (of all people),and was also swept and put up against the fence by Brett Rodgers.So he obviously has a history of underestimating guys,and then getting put in bad positions on the mat.And you simply can’t be put in a bad position against an ADCC champ.
Check out my MMA highlight videos!
http://www.dailymotion.com/WheelchairBandit
We can play that game with Werdum too.
Werdum had Giant Silva (of all people) on the ground for two rounds in his last fight and couldn’t submit him, and got reversed several times.
It’s fighting. Every fighter makes mistakes. That doesn’t automatically mean they’re bad at the area in which they made the mistake.
Rome’s point is well-made though. I think Fedor didn’t realize how excellent Werdum is on the ground. There were interviews where he made direct comparisons between Nogueira and Werdum. With respect to Nogueira, Werdum’s BJJ is much better.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
I also think that...
ironically, Fedor may have fallen prey to an opponent playing possum. I think he thought Werdum was hurt when knocked down and he got overly excited/aggressive going for the finish, which led to his doom.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
No offense
But you’re full of shit on this one Snowden. You’re partaking in the classic fallacy of “If Fighter X loses, they must be in the wrong weight class”. He didn’t get bullied around by Werdum, he got himself caught in a submission because he got sloppy. Size wasn’t an issue.
by CaliforniaCreamPuff on Jun 27, 2010 3:34 AM EDT reply actions
A single loss at HW and he has to drop down?
I think that’s a little premature to call, don’t you think? Seems everyone these days are too quick to say when a fighter’s either finished, past prime, too small, too big, etc… This is one fight. Yes, Fedor is human after all, and he went in for the kill recklessly, in my opinion. He made a mistake which Fabricio gladly capitalized on, and good for Werdum, he deserves it. He’s the guy to finally do it. Just do not count out Fedor at HW, period. That is just too hasty, too short-sighted, imo
OK, so I spent somet time building up Fabricio Werdum. And he’s a very talented man. But how do you pick against a man who has never lost a legitimate fight after a decade of taking on the world’s best?
Plagiarism will get you nowhere.
Really. That doesn’t even fit here. Try harder….
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 27, 2010 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Settle down everyone...
Yes, Fedor is really a LHW fighting at HW, but did that cost him the fight tonight? Absolutely! He was to overweight to see that Werdum wasn’t hurt, he was simply off balance.
Werdum’s feet were even and thus had no base, so a weak strike by Fedor knocked him back and down. Fedor, thinking he was hurt, made the ill advised decision to jump on and try to finish the BJJ world champ… bad idea. The rest is history.
This wasn’t a case of anything, but a bad decision in a split second and it cost the greatest MMA fighter of all-time.
All that said, the true winner tonight was BJJ!!! In your face wrestlers, lol!
please note...
this is a light hearted jab at the notion that wrestling has become the dominant art in MMA.
Well, it is about to control three out of the five belts (I consider Edgar a wrestler first and foremost)
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 27, 2010 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Cain and Dos Santos are the future of the HW division, well rounded young athletic guys, I think Carwin and Brock are having some brief success at the moment, but that will change, I don’t think the ideal HW fighter is going to have to cut down to 265 and be a good 280 fight night, I believe the ideal weight is around 240, pretty lean.
Wrestling is a great foundation, I am freestyle wrestler, been wrestling since I was 11 years old, am 20 now, started with no gi grappling about 5 months ago, the wrestling has helped me a great deal.
JonathanSnowden - Get a grip mate...
He got caught, that could have happened to anyone… I remember it happened to Broc Lesnar.
Seriously the naivety on this site sometimes drives me mad, I almost want to tell you to go and fuck yourself.
Got caught, not too small, not a shell of himself and I absolutely don’t give a shit at all that Brett Rogers gave him trouble, none whatsoever! He still beat him and beat him good.
Fedor’s size and speed was part of his advantage against bigger slower heavyweights.
If anything I don’t think his motivation is what it was in PRIDE.
But to go and say that he’s lost it based on last nights fight is almost stupid.
When a fighter loses everyone thinks the solution is to drop a weight class.
He didn’t lose because he was too small, size had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Fedor is better where he's at
Heavyweight is not stacked. He can beat most of those guys with his balance, quickness, technique, and using his smaller size as an advantage in getting favorable positioning.
Light Heavyweight is stacked. The guys are just as coordinated and balanced, just as quick or quicker, and are his size. He has one-punch knockout power, and that would be his only advantage in that weight class.
Jon Jones would beat him.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
Heavyweight
is pretty stacked,imo…..Lesnar,Carwin,Velasquez,JDS,Overeem,Silva plus the two from last night.
In fact,i would say heavyweight is possibly the second (or at worst 3rd,behind 155) most competitive division in MMA at the moment.
Sure
But LHW has 10 to 12 guys who are legitimate threats to beat the champ, whoever he is at any given moment. Heavyweight is getting better, but LHW is just sick.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
The question is not should Fedor drop to 205 IMO...
…the question is can Fedor cut the weight and still fight to full capacity? Has he ever cut weight before? Will he be gassed, dehydrated or drawn out, like other fighters who have dropped a weight class to disastrous results?
I think more so than moving wieght classes...
Fedor needs to come out of the Siberian forest and start training with some top level guys. If he wants to keep up with the rising tide of talent in MMA, even Fedor has to adapt and continue to improve.
Maybe he made a rookie BJJ mistake TWICE IN A ROW to Werdum because nobody in his camp of Russian worshipers could slap a submission on him like that in training??? Everyone around him treats him like a god. I guarantee if he trained with Greg Jackson or Black House he would improve and be challenged much more in training. It’s not all lifting logs and wrestling wolverines and all that Rocky shit anymore. We saw what happened when he tried to power out of that triangle. Tap tap tap…
This will not stand man, this aggression will not stand!
This Is
The result of when fans put a fighter on a pedistool of glory, which im not saying Fedor doesn’t deserve, but the mans been through wars and proven that he is one of the P4P best fighters in the world. Fedor has and will always be the first to tell you that he is just a human being like everyone else, maybe not as normal, but he isn’t invincible & last night was a reminder to all fans, not just Fedor fanatics, of why BJJ is used in this sport. Royce Gracie himself should give Werdum his 3rd degree BB for this historical performance. Major respect to both fighters, especially Werdum for reminding everyone why fighting off your back can be even more dangerous than on your feet.
Fedors lack of traning.
Fedor has gotten by on pure talent and routinely fighting guys who are not Top10 fighters. I don’t care how talented you are, if you want to be an elite level athelete, you can’t look like Fedor.
Your body is a picture of your training. And Fedor is neither lean, nor muscular.
Fedor is the greatest HW in MMA history
Fedor Emelianenko suffered his first loss of his career to World Champion Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Practitionar Fabricio Werdum. In now way does this loss give Fedor any reason to drop to LH. On the predictions before the fight you seemed to have a different opinion about Fedor Johnathan: “OK, so I spent somet time building up Fabricio Werdum. And he’s a very talented man. But how do you pick against a man who has never lost a legitimate fight after a decade of taking on the world’s best?”. But now you are mocking Fedor calling him " tubby, small, and out of shape", and actually comparing Fedor to Butterbean, suggesting that if Emelianenko wanted to continue in the HW division that it would be nothing short of how Butterbean has ended his career. Fedor’s body structure has always been that of a HW, he will never be the man to cut weight and have a six pack but the fact remains if you put him in the octagon he can finish any of the best heavyweight’s in the world. I’m also sure a drop in weight has never crossed Fedor’s mind he would love to fight Allistair or avenge his loss to Werdum , Fedor hears the hype around him that some people feel he doesn’t want to fight the best in the world anymore but in the back of his mind he wants to prove everyone wrong and take on the best of the UFC. You also can’t compare Sakuraba to Fedor, Sakuraba weighed 185 when he fought Wanderlai, Fedor is not as much smaller than his oppenents as Sakuraba was. Fedor has just as much to gain from fighting at LH as he does with another fight against Brett Rogers.
Maybe next time you decide to write a fanpost you wont make in irrational decision based on emotion disgracing the name of the greatest HW in history. Like Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, Fedor helped make MMA what it is today.
by dwjscombo69 on Jun 28, 2010 1:59 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Whats funny is realistically Fedor is a UFC MW
If you say that he probably carries an extra 15 lbs around with him, that would bring him down to 215… right around where a lot of MW’s begin their diet/ cutting at the beginning of camp
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
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