Strikeforce: Fedor vs Werdum Preview: Cung Le, Sanshou, Kicks, Take Downs and Scott Smith
It's no secret I'm a massive Cung Le mark. I love what the man brings to MMA. The secret sauce is Sanshou, a Chinese military fighting system that incorporates a ton of flashy kicks and sweet throws and take downs combining the most fun aspects of Judo and wrestling.
Head Kick Legend's Fraser Cofeen has a really awesome break down of Cung's fighting style, some tasty nuggets:
Watch one of Le's old Sanshou fights, and you will not see many differences from his MMA bouts. A very proud Sanshou representative, Le has stayed true to his Sanshou roots, utilizing elements from that sport to achieve positive results in MMA. Specifically, Le uses certain Sanshou techniques to his advantage:
- Striking variety - This is probably Cung Le's greatest strength. The man simply has a huge arsenal of kicks at his disposal. As a result, you can never be sure exactly what he is throwing. Most fighters stick to the basics with kicks, but Le will throw from both legs, and at targets all up and down his opponent's body. A great example of this is seen twice in round 1 of the first Smith bout. Early on, Le hits a gorgeous spinning back kick that Smith sees coming, but just can not figure out how to block. Later in the round, he surprises Smith again by using a quick head kick thrown off his lead leg - a very rare kick, but executed beautifully. Which brings us to...
- Striking accuracy - All the kicks in the world would mean nothing if they didn't land. But they do. Just ask Frank Shamrock and his shattered arm.
- Incorporating punches - While all the attention is put on Le's kicks (and rightly so), he uses his hands very well. Check out his MMA debut against Mike Altman, where he ends Altman's night with a nice punch.
- Takedown defense - It's no secret that Le wants to keep his fights standing. He usually gets his way, thanks to his Sanshou-inspired takedown defense. In Sanshou, takedowns score highly, and Le used them well. Although he does not use takedowns much himself in MMA, he has maintained the use of his Sanshou defense in order to stop others. Shamrock attempted to bring their fight to the ground on a few occasions, and never once succeeded. When Le does use his throws, he typically keeps on his own feet, again nullifying the ground game. This is another holdover from his Sanshou training, where a takedown scores higher if you maintain your feet while performing the throw. Le uses this skill to keep the fight in his comfort zone at all times.
- Volume of strikes - Sanshou can be won by knockout, but it is largely a point-based style, which means that a higher volume of effective strikes leads to victory. Le keeps up that volume in MMA, keeping his opponent on the defense.
And for those who want to learn more about Le's arsenal of throws and take down defense, may I refer you to my Judo Chop of December 2009: The San Shou Take Downs of Cung Le excerpt in the full entry.
The knock on Le and his application of Sanshou to MMA is of course the way he got KTFO'd by Scott Smith after two and a quarter rounds of utterly dominating the gritty UFC vet. Smith is the sport's preeminent come back artist. Thus I'm not inclined to damn Le's style because of one fateful mistake.
However, I do think that Le is too small to be fighting at 185lbs and he's too old to compete for very much longer. He also has a glaring void where 1/3 of his mma game should be -- I'm speaking of submissions. But his wrestling has so far been adequate to keep his fights on the feet. His roster of hand picked opponents might have helped too.
We'll find out Saturday if he's got enough left in the tank to beat (maybe even finish) Scott Smith. If Smith works him over and beats him out again, we can only appreciate the fights that Le was able to give us and bitterly regret that he didn't enter MMA ten years earlier, in his athletic peak. But the prospect of Le entering the stacked Strikeforce middleweight tournament is one to keep a geek like me up at night.
Here's an animated gif of Le landing a series of flashly kicks on Smith:
Fraser's analysis of these kicks is spot on. And if watching Le in action doesn't tickle your fancy I don't know what to say. All I know is nothing has made me more excited than the prospect of a few million Sanshou trained Chinese fighters taking up MMA in the next couple of decades.
From the Judo Chop I did on Le:
Cung Le is a very controversial figure with MMA fans. Judging by the comments here and at Sherdog and the UG, he's not that well liked. Some of the hate is understandable. He has definitely put his MMA career on the back burner for the past couple of years to focus on a burgeoning b-movie career. He did it to the point that Strikeforce had to strip him of his middleweight title.
But a lot of the hate is less well founded and seems to come from a misunderstanding of Cung Le and the style he brings to MMA. I frequently read commenters saying things like, "if he fights a wrestler he's going to get put on his back in a hurry" or "that fight was fake, (insert name of Cung opponent here) didn't even try to take him down."
Here's the problem with that, Cung Le is really really good at take downs and take down defense. Not only does he have a decent amateur wrestling background, but he competed in San Shou for many years. And that's the thing about San Shou, not only does it focus on striking -- especially the fancy kicks Le is famous for -- it also focuses on take downs, more specifically throws.
Here's a little bit about the rules of San Shou when practiced as a competitive sport:
As a sport, San Shou/San Da is practiced in tournaments and is normally held alongside taolu events in wushu competition. For safety reasons, some techniques from the self-defense form such as elbow strikes, chokes, and joint locks, are not allowed during tournaments. Competitors can win by knockout or points which are earned by landing strikes to the body or head, throwing an opponent, or when competition is held on a raised lei tai platform, pushing them off the platform. Fighters are only allowed to clinch for a few seconds. If the clinch is not broken by the fighters, and if neither succeeds in throwing his opponent within the time limit, the referee will break the clinch.
As you can see, this rule set is not inclined to favor fighters who have poor take down defense. Cung Le went 17-0 in San Shou competition.
Click through to see all the animated gif goodness.
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Great pre-fight analysis.
I think Cung-Le’s style is fascinating to watch. I think your Judo Chop is dead on that Sanshou could be an interesting addition to MMA techniques.
Its unfortunate that Cung Le isn’t well-rounded, or young, enough to compete at the top-levels. It would be interesting to see.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
yeah
I’m hoping he’s not a uniquely gifted athlete and that many elements of his style are replicable.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
In the Head Kick Legend thread..
Anton mentioned that many Phillipine MMA fighters draw on Sanshou techniques. I think its going to be really interesting to see how that plays out.
To the untrained eye (very untrained), it looks like the Sanshou stance affords better takedown defense than the traditional Muay Thai stance. That’s a bit of a tautology since Sanshou emphasizes takedowns whereas Muy Thai does not, but I think it’s wider stance offers fighters a bit more mobility when fending off takedown attempts.
Of course, I may be totally and completely wrong.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
Naturally, the Philippine MMA scene is much greener than the US scene,
but I think it’s interesting to point out that the Wushu/Sanshou fighters here, are more willing to take things to the ground… They still have good standup, but they’re more willing to mix things up, and I think that’s a good thing if you really want to be a complete mixed martial artist.
Here’s a (really old) highlight of the Wushu team. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l_VIi4mv5M&feature=player_embedded
by Anton Tabuena on Jun 26, 2010 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Cung Le
is like a guy in a movie that makes you say..that would never work in a real fight…and then he actually makes it work in a real fight. Really amazing arsenal of kicks that he uses. Great write up Nate.
On a sidenote – The Strikeforce Middleweight tournament is going to be a really big deal. For all the depth issues they have, that tournament is such an awesome idea. Lot of people will be interested in Strikeforce because of it.
thanks
and yes the strikeforce middleweight tourny — especially if they can get the winner of Santiago/Misaki in there will be epic.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
"that would never work in a real fight…and then he actually makes it work in a real fight."
To be fair…in Strikeforce he was basically fed a serious of slow stand up fighters who would (and did) just stand and trade…and take what Cung Le had to throw at them until they dropped.
Hell, Frank Shamrock would have likely tooled him had he not made some stupid gentleman’s agreement to just stand as opposed to taking it to the ground.
Cung Le is pretty talented at his choice of martial arts, but I would hesitate to say that his career is some kind of proof that Sanshou works in MMA.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
I don't care who he did it against.
He can pull off some cool shit. That was the only point I was trying to make.
by Geno Mrosko on Jun 25, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree...
that he is capable of throwing some amazing kicks, just like lets say Jet Lee can in a movie. I’m just saying that the competition he was throwing them against were about as likely to make those kicks hard to throw as the punching bag he practiced them on while training for the fight.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
I disagree
Cung Le’s wrestling > Frank Shamrock’s, imo.
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 26, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Shamrock didn't make any gentleman's agreement
lol
First off, Frank’s knees are utterly shot, he hasn’t shot in for a take down in years and years.
Second, Cung Le is a far better (more credentialed) amateur wrestler than Shamrock so good luck getting him down Frank.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 26, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Cung Le is super fun to watch. I think the break he took to act hurt his fight career. He’s just to old to take that much time off
Your style's like garbage cans meant to be taken out on a weekly basis
Ever since your first record you've been in a state of suspended animation
You look like Snuffleuffagus and Australopithecus
Me cray, you abacus
Takedown Defense
Also a Junior College Wrestling champion. He is apparently a beast to deal with grappling.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 25, 2010 2:46 PM EDT reply actions
count me among the Cung Le marks
the loss to Smith was his first loss in any combat sport, and i’ve been harping on that for months here. I was literally screaming at the TV for Cung to back off, because throwing wild and getting into a brawl is Smith’s world.
He beats Smith in this match, and in the trilogy. His striking is the kicking equivalent to the Diaz brothers’ boxing, especially Nick- all angles, huge volumes, and when you see an opening, you capitalize. He overwhelms opponents. To land a spinning head kick is unbelievable.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
the loss to Smith was his first loss in any combat sport
I am a huge fan of Le, partly because I love his mystique, which is a huge part of him. But I think some of that mystique needs to be taken with a grain of salt, much in the same way you consider Rickson’s 500-0 record.
So yes, he likely is undefeated in professional competition – but he did lose as an amateur. He holds 3 bronzes in amateur Sanshou competition – which should mean that 3 times he lost to someone who went on to win silver or gold.
Like I said, I love the mystique – I’m a huge sucker for it – and I love Le. But that mystique does occasionally lead to some inaccuracies.
HeadKickLegend.com
by Fraser Coffeen on Jun 25, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
i’ve seen that, but amateur losses vs. being undefeated in K-1, sanshou, kickboxing, and MMA until that fight as a professional is pretty goddamn impressive.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jun 25, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, no doubt about that! It’s an impressive record to be sure, and I certainly didn’t mean to disparage it in any way.
HeadKickLegend.com
by Fraser Coffeen on Jun 26, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
"But the prospect of Le entering the stacked Strikeforce middleweight tournament is one to keep a geek like me up at night."
Stacked?
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Jun 25, 2010 3:42 PM EDT reply actions
dude, their tournament is about as stacked as the UFC’s MW division. no way to argue that.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jun 25, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
stacked.
From my MW rankings post:
The next biggest news involves Strikeforce’s rumored middleweight tournament to crown a replacement for (expected to be) departing champ #3 Jake Shields. Rumored participants include: #7 Dan Henderson, #10 Robbie Lawler, #15 Ronaldo Souza, #25 Tim Kennedy, Jason “Mayhem” Miller, Nick Diaz, the winner of Cung Le/Scott Smith and the winner of Sengoku/WVR’s #9Jorge Santiago/#22Kazuo Misaki bout.
That’s 3 top 10 MW’s, 2 top 20’s and 2 top 25’s. Not bad for a 2nd tier org.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Me as well
Cung is a fantastic fighter. I love the way the fast pace of his fights. As a few have stated above he’s lightning quick. I wish he’d concentrate on MMA full time, but as Nate put it, Father Time may be catching up to him
BTW Nate, I think I read somewhere that Cung is training in BJJ. Is there any truth to that?
no idea
I mean I’d fucking hope so, but we’ve seen no evidence of it in his fights.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
i thought i’d read he was a blue belt at some point a little while ago, but i have absolutely no documentation for that
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jun 25, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
i looked for a quick sec, but he’s listed as blue belt on his wiki page
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jun 25, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Hands up Cung
If Cung Lee would have kept his hands up during the last fight we’re not even discussing this fight. Instead his hands spent way too much time at waist level leaving his “button” wide open. Unless Smith has improved his stand up drastically he best take the fight to the ground
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jun 25, 2010 3:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
frank shamrock told me those kicks don’t hurt
by kanodogg on Jun 25, 2010 4:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don't understand the hate for Frank with this comment
He said the same thing with Nick Diaz punches.
As the article above states….San Shou is more about point fighting. Cung doesn’t win fights by crushing people with single blows. He wins by constantly and overwhelmingly damaging opponent from all angles. Frank’s loss to Le (and Diaz) were due to the accumulation of damage from their constant attacks.
Frank didn’t mean that he didn’t feel any pain, he meant that the single strikes don’t hurt much but getting hit over and over and over and over in a short period of time is what does you in.
Maybe because most everyone hates Frank. He is disrespectful to other fighters and is basically using his mouth to stay relevant in the MMA world. I think he took the “Tito Ortiz” course on how to stay relevant without actually beating anyone good.
The only fight I’d like to see is a Tito vs. Frank double retirement match. I think the fight would be very competitive and they both are kings of talking.
by Bob Loblaw TX on Jun 25, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
that's why UFC resigned Tito
to prevent Strikeforce from being able to book that match. would’ve been a money maker.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
The hatred for Shamrock...
is largely because those douchey comments were made while he was acting in his professional capacity as a commenter during and event. In those moments he should refrain from talking trash about other fighters and keep the focus on the action going on inside the cage.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
Great post Nate..
I’m a huge fan of Le and I really do wish he took the time to make a whole hearted run in MMA. Even so watching him work is akin to watching CroCop navigate the deep waters in Pride back in the day. (At least in the respect he is fighting with his style on his terms) I think because of the KO,and the broken nose that is still evident on the face of Le, we will see a very focused,well conditioned and dangerous fighter enter the cage Saturday.
The more you drive, the less intelligent you are.
Nice post!
I, too, can’t wait to see more San Da in MMA!
Facts don't come with points of view.
by Robert Livingston on Jun 26, 2010 9:27 AM EDT reply actions

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