Dana White Approved Plan to 'Leak' TUF Footage
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 25, 2010 9:17 AM EDT
in MMA News
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PrintProps to MiddleEasy.com on this one:
Let's be clear here. This isn't illegal, it isn't even particularly unusual in modern marketing. This is just an interesting glimpse into the long talked about "pose as the fans" strategy employed by the UFC.
Practically every product on Amazon.com has positive "reviews" put up by people from the product's company which is far more immoral given that it influences buying decisions, Cage Side Seats reminds us of the "All I Want For Christmas Is A PSP" stunt and of course recently in our own sport we all remember the Chuck Liddell works out naked video.
It's all just marketing, but it doesn't make it less interesting.
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Just because everyone is doing it and it’s not illegal doesn’t make it right (I’m not sure if it’s really wrong either). I wonder if youtube has language in their tou that disallows this.
Posing as fans on message boards is borderline fraud in my opinion.
Every company with a bit of smarts has people doing this type of thing.
The MR Clean magic eraser has a good chunk of people who are paid to pretend they are normal customers and talk up the magic eraser online as much as possible. It is the nature of the beast.
The real question for me is…
Who first mentioned the video here and on other sites. We may get an even deeper inside glimpse into who here has been planted by big business.
Mr Clean also has to deal with a bunch of hoax emails that people write about how they were letting their kid help clean and use the eraser and got chemical burns. Also the swiffer wetjet emails about how if you wash your floors with it and your dogs walk on it they will get liver failure or erode their paw pads.
Dude...
it’s all viral marketing. What is the harm in leaking TUF footage and having people provide links to it. I draw the line at posting false reviews, but this seems pretty fine to me.
That being said, I’m in the process of setting up an independent Twitter account that posts about topics related to my company’s industry, just so my company Twitter account can retweet my tweets. The internet age has provided so many unique marketing opportunities, it’s kind of cool to see when a company actually takes advantage of them.
by gavingavinkindgavin on Jun 25, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Seriously.
Welcome to marketing. Sorry to ruin the MAGIC OF TV for you guys but this is barely newsworthy.
Leaking footage, no harm
But I think posing as a fan and providing false reviews and misinformation is wrong. And again, I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here.
Rec'd
Saving me time here
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 25, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Your opinion is wrong.
Not to demean you, but it isn’t fraud and terms like that shouldn’t be used so lightly, If in fact you feel that strongly about this, I assume you are not watching the UFC or buying any of its products.
Now the Carmen Elektra “Sex Tape” is FRAUD. Damn them!
do you know what borderline means?
If they are posting false reviews and lying in order to gain profit, I don’t know what else to call it.
You can call it shady tactics, questionable, clever, the world we live in, immoral by your standards, cutting edge, following the trends of marketing.
I just think calling it fraud is a little harsh. If a bank committed fraud, I wouldn’t do business with them. So if the UFC has committed fraud, I would expect all of us that are offended by it, to not “do business” with them.
From wikipedia, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain.
From dictionary.com, Fraud –noun deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.
It definitely applies. I don’t see any other way to look at it.
Ok, fine. So are you now boycotting their product?
All I’m saying is that there is a serious tone to the use of fraud in business and I don’t think it should be applied here, despite what wiki, webster’s or anyone else says.
They are using a common marketing practice in the electronic age, so I find it hard to accuse them of fraud.
Well I don’t know that the stuff in that email is true, and even if it is it’s not clear that they are posing as a fan or just posting a link. So I’m not accusing anyone of fraud, I’m saying that the practice of posing as a fan on a message board in order to advertise a product is a minor fraud. (I’ll take the borderline away, because the definition is pretty clear)
People do dishonest things all the time, if you boycotted every dishonest company you would be sitting at home doing nothing but counting your pennies.
Fair enough. I just don’t know how to separate things like fraud and dishonesty from common marketing practices in this day and age. Maybe I would feel differently if it was a fixed fight or something, but leaking footage to get people to tune in to a TV show just doesn’t seem that serious to me.
I'm not talking about the leaking of footage.
I’m talking about posing as fans.
Fraud usually requires an intent to deprive someone of money or physical property. I don’t see how that applies. It only applies if I buy something, like a pay-per-view or whatever. This is just getting me to watch a free TVshow.
look at my post below
but you are not necessarily the one being deprived of something
Guess what
Marketing is inherently dishonest. Advertising lies through the teeth at you all the time. We twist the truth as much as common decency will allow us, and if it comes back to bite us in the ass, the client hires a PR firm to do damage control.
Are you between 15 and 22 years old, because you sound like you just found out your parents aren’t perfect, and you got all fired up about it.
This is total BS. I went out and bought some Axe body spray and I had hot models hanging all over me.
by BJJDenver on Jun 25, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Definition of "fraud" in the dictionary
is different than the defintion of “fraud” as a criminal offence.
Maybe that’s where the confusion comes from.
There are laws and regulations againts “deceptive marketing practices” and when viral marketing crosses that line the companies should be punished. Personally, I think posting fake reviews qualifies. I think we will eventually see regulations come in to deal with this.
The UFC would not seem to be better or worse than other companies, including large ones like Sony. Marketing departments generally have a ton of leeway until they get in trouble – they aren’t always closely overseen by corporate/legal guys.
Fun fact
In Canada a politician recently got caught, her staffer was writing letters to the paper about how great she was. it’s just dishonest, no matter how you slice it, even if everyone does do it.
The canadian criminal code defines it as
“Every one who, by deceit, falsehood or other fraudulent means, whether or not it is a false pretence within the meaning of this Act, defrauds the public or any person, whether ascertained or not, of any property, money or valuable security or any service … (or) … with intent to defraud, affects the public market price of stocks, shares, merchandise or anything that is offered for sale to the public.”
Looks pretty similar to me.
How does advertising a free TV show with a false internet persona deprive me of anything? I can watch or not, doesn’t effect me at all.
Again, I’m not saying this is what was happening but IFit was….
You then watch TUF instead of something else. If this didn’t happen to some degree they would not be doing the advertising.
a) they have deprived you of your time. No big deal but a slight loss.
b) they have stopped you from watching something else at that time. No big deal for one person but when they do enough it effects the other shows on TV.
c) maybe it gets you to buy a PPV you wouldn’t have otherwise bought.
Point is, if there was no monetary benefit to it, they would not do it. That benefit is not created out of thin air, it comes from someone.
That's the same with ANY ad.
It’s designed to make you provide the company with profits over their competitors. If you think they are “depriving” somebody of their time/money by providing them a service in return, you’re batshit insane.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
sigh.
Advertising is of course legal and okay. Lying when advertising is not (and companies go to great lengths to bend the truth while avoiding outright lying).
But what id the difference between viral ads and regular ads?
Say there’s an ad for TUF during a hockey game on Versus. It convinces you to watch the show by providing a few clips of the action…
You then watch TUF instead of something else. If this didn’t happen to some degree they would not be doing the advertising.
a) they have deprived you of your time. No big deal but a slight loss.
b) they have stopped you from watching something else at that time. No big deal for one person but when they do enough it effects the other shows on TV.
c) maybe it gets you to buy a PPV you wouldn’t have otherwise bought.
They didn’t do anything even slightly immoral here. They spread a video online using new media. The content was legitimate. This isn’t some Yvon Eht Nioj conspiracy, it’s simple marketing.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Read the whole fucking thread please
and understand what I’m talking about. Nowhere did I say viral ads are wrong or illegal or anything. I said LYING while advertising is wrong and illegal. Sheesh.
I read the whole thing.
There was no lie. No fraud. There was nothing wrong. Quite frankly, phone companies posting their competitors “maps” with varying criteria and tiny, unreadable text at the bottom to justify it is way more deserving of your ire than basic viral marketing.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Sony hires cute girls to hang out at landmarks with the newest point and click digital cameras.
They then go up to strangers and ask them to take their picture. The point is to get unsuspecting people to hold a Sony camera, see the features and how easy it is to use, and link “Sony camera” and “cute girl I met in Millenium Park” in their heads. Is that lying?
These people don’t go out and say “I’m totally not working for a company employed by Zuffa LLC to do viral marketing guiz! Trust me!” They create an account, post like a fan, say good things about a product, and that’s it. It’s no more a lie than you pretending to be named “Atgreat” on Bloody Elbow.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Sure, there is a line between lying and omission, and so long as they walk it they are okay. But there are people and companies who cross that line. If you post a review of an event you did not see or attend (and claim you did) , for example
How about if I did see the event but got paid to post about how great it was even if I thought it was just ok personally? Is there a line here? Well there are so many darn lines that it all really depends on the observers point of view and personal opinion.The actual line in advertising is what is deemed legal and illegal, beyond that it’s all just personal opinion. We all know that the guys in the tv commercials claiming to be doctors are actually actors but for some reason people still respond to that so they still do it even if it is just a big lie.
In this day and age what is actually scary about all this isn’t that there are people lying about loving a product on the internet it’s that there are people who still blindly believe anything they read on the internet.
The line between legal and illegal is not really the same as between right and wrong
It’s true that right and wrong is personal opinion. Some people seem to think that some fraud is okay. Most people think blatant intentional deception is wrong but deception by omission is okay.
But is it okay to inundate a site with false postings? Say Strikeforce decides to hire an army of (very cheap) workers to post poor reviews of quality UFC events. Doesn’t the UFC have a case against them, even if all those people saw the events in question? Or is their only option to fight fire with fire and hire their own army? Is that a society that anyone wants to live in?
Of course the basic problem is that people are too easily influenced. But that isn’t going away.
I would laugh at anyone who actually makes up their mind about a event just by reading post on a blog or messageboard. If there is an article running down who is fighting at UFC 1xx and 50 people post comments about it then should someone make their mind up whether they want to buy the event due to the comments or due to what they think of the people fighting on this card? If 45 of the people commenting are just giving their pesonal opinion and 5 of them are shills who post an opinion that they are paid to post does that actually change anything at all?
Dana White tells us every season of TUF is the greatest season ever, should anyone take him seriously or should they just decide for themselves if they want to watch it or not? How about if Dana pays someone to post a comment under his statement that it really is the greatest season ever, would that change anything at all? What if Scott Coker paid two people to say that this season of TUF isn’t the greatest season ever? Would that change anything at all? What if they said 9 out of 10 dentist say that this is the best season of TUF ever? What if they really do ask dentist? What if only 8 of the 10 dentist are real dentist and 2 were actually dental assistants?
Is that a society that anyone wants to live in?
Want’s got nothing to do with it, that is the society that we have been living in for generations, welcome to capitalism.
If you don't care
then why read the posts and why respond? What’s the point? The whole point of a message board is to influence and be influenced.
The whole point of posting on a message board is for personal entertainment not because you want someone to tell you which kind of laundry detergent you should buy. I’m not here to convince people to believe what I believe I am here because I enjoy reading articles and talking about the sport, if I learn something then great but the main goal is to have a good time talking about something that interest me.
I see you are in the zero-sum school of economics, where in order for me to benefit, others must be deprived. Unfortunately, that’s not how things usually work. In order for me to make businesses don’t just take money from someplace, they provide benefits to customers, who are often glad topay for those benefits. Quite frankly, having $100 does nothing for me, but a 65 minute massage, in exchange for that $100 is a great thing, it’s a win-win situation.
What's the difference
between this and a cleverly formatted television commercial. NOTHING.
Why is this news?
Seriously why is this even news? People intentionally leak clips from their tvshows/movies etc ALL THE TIME.
Only people that will care are the trolls who honestly think Dana is Satan and are mentally handicapped.
by Brent Nahmias on Jun 25, 2010 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Sony got caught with about 3 dozen hired posters on “neogaf” a few years back, the amazon reviews, it’s all over the place.
by Brent Nahmias on Jun 25, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because it's interesting...
and if all you have to add is bitching about something getting posted, you’re better off not saying anything.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 25, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Agreed
Posting that something is not a story is pointless. If you don’t care about Brett Favrve, stop commenting on stories about him.
The posting is good, finding out about this stuff is great
but people that think this is outrageous are certainly overreacting. Just point at Dana, laugh, say “we caught you” and move on. Watch the show, boycott the show, whatever. Just don’t be shocked by some viral marketing.
The age range for mma fans and readers of this site is probably great. What’s the big deal if someone who doesn’t know how this stuff works is outraged.
Its definitely personal perspective also, some people will say its “great viral marketing!” if DW and the UFC do it, and slimy and deceptive if another promotion were to be found doing it. People often fail to see their biases.
Here's a tip
There’s a reason we don’t rely on others for judgment of what is and isn’t newsworthy. Coincidentally, when relying on our own judgment, this happened: http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=s30bloodyelbow&r=33
If you don’t think this is worth posting, I highly recommend you stay out of the digital media business.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jun 25, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
WHOOMP
There it is.
www.facebook.com/djpullout
www.twitter.com/djpullout
www.myspace.com/djpullout
www.djpullout.com
AIM = djpullout
info@djpullout.com
by DJ Pullout on Jun 25, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The real controversy is that the UFC hired a viral marketing company to do this. What? They couldn’t get a couple of interns to do this crap?
by MMABookworm on Jun 25, 2010 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That’s the first thing I thought too. Maybe this is Zuffa’s contribution to stimulating the economy.
"The fact that you constantly self censor yourself makes you like a flavored type of flavor"
by Dr. Doogie Seacrest on Jun 25, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Was it the UFC that did it or was it Rebok?
My understand was that Rebok did the ad, usually they would be the ones responsible for spreading it. Dana just gave his approval. The fact that he asked them to stay away from all the UFC and Spike message boards is really interesting to me.
by truck on Jun 25, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I did this for a while for a record label
I’d pose as a fan to push the band into new markets. I was registered on 40 different music message boards and needed to get my post count up before pushing the band. It worked on 36 of those 40 and we saw significant sales in those markets as well as attendance at shows.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Jun 25, 2010 9:27 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
wow I find that really interesting. if u don’t mind me asking, what was the pay like for a job like that? and are any of the bands u did this for relatively famous now?
by kanginator10 on Jun 25, 2010 9:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It was part of my job description
My official job was director of touring so I was in charge of the marketing in those areas as well set up the radio interviews/spots.
Yes there are a couple of bands that I did this for that went on to be very famous in the Punk Scene.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Jun 25, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
So is having over 3700 comments enough to start shilling for the MMA promotion you’re working for now?
Yeah, start watching War Godz it’s teh best promotion out there
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Jun 25, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve seen Amazon actually remove well-thought out negative reviews (not trolls) on new books.
by MMABookworm on Jun 25, 2010 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
See, I almost hate reading those things anymore because you really don’t know whats real, what’s not, and what’s been filtered. So annoying.
by ufc4 on Jun 25, 2010 9:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
if you read them enough, you can sort of pick out the shills, at least the obvious ones, they read like a marketing department. I never read 5 or 1 stars, the best information is in the 3 and 4 stars.
Sometimes taking a look at goodreads or the living social-books app for facebook instead of reviews on the bookseller websites helps too.
by JeremyShane on Jun 25, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
SHIT JUST GOT REAL.
Actually, I think the main point that shouldn’t be missed here is that Dana White, for all his bluster about how he hates blogs and message boards, also seems to know where his fan base is. It’s long been said that White’s beef with internet message boards, blogs and forums has less to do with him actually thinking that they lie, make things up, etc., and more to do with his inabilty to control the content there. Well, looks like he’s getting around on that too, if in an incomplete manner. It’s like the television deal, the Fedor negotiations, etc. – the UFC business model is founded on interacting with the fans SOLELY through mediums controlled by the promotion; tight control of the medium means tight control of the method means tight control of how the brand is perceived. And if the medium – the internet – isn’t controllable, the UFC will simply control what content is and is not accessible online. Intelligent? Sure. Sustainable? Probably not.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jun 25, 2010 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Did Dana make this ad or did Rebok
I didn’t think UFC was producing Rebok commercials.
It looks to me like Dana gave the goahead and mde some ground rules for Chuck to collect a check from Rebok.
I'm more impressed
on how someone got their hands on this email. Is TMZ working for the mma world now?
Shut up, Tito.
by TruthSeeker1223 on Jun 25, 2010 9:33 AM EDT reply actions
Poor Subo
He was very good at his job. I hope they hire him again.
by asa on Jun 25, 2010 9:35 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Nice
However, once again, I am not paid by… anybody.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 25, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
soooooo
where is the footage?
I would love to hear someone question Dana about this one and see what lie he comes up with.
Shut up, Tito.
by TruthSeeker1223 on Jun 25, 2010 9:39 AM EDT reply actions
I honestly doubt he'd lie...
I bet he’d just say “yeah, so?” and that’d be it
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 25, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
or he can say that it’s just hearsay, Borsari misinterpreting and wrongly speaking for Dana. Or yeah, he can just say, “so what?”, it’s really not a big deal nearly everyone selling something does something similar to this.
yeah it probably won’t be breaking news. He’ll probably say it’s photoshopped.
Shut up, Tito.
by TruthSeeker1223 on Jun 25, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Did anyone
notice the date on the email? It’s from 2006. I was thinking it was recent.
Shut up, Tito.
by TruthSeeker1223 on Jun 25, 2010 9:40 AM EDT reply actions
That's weird.
Nice to meet me.
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
Win
"Daydreams of a 'fair' world which would treat him according to his 'real worth' are the refuge of all those plagued by a lack of self-knowledge." -- Ludwig von Mises.
Well played
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
Waiting for someone to shit a chicken
I work in creative services & marketing, and we employ these sorts of tactics on a regular basis. This is the lazy man’s guerrilla marketing, and it’s nothing to really perk up about. It is interesting, though.
"I have trained to fight an army. There is no way one man can stop me if many cannot." -Georges St. Pierre
Yeah...
that’s kind of it. It’s not illegal, it’s just an interesting glimpse into how they work. It also is fun because people used to get so offended when we would mention that the UFC does have people posing as fans on various sites and message boards.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 25, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I never get offended at that idea, I take it for granted.
However, I do think it’s funny that people think every pro-UFC post on a message board is written by a ZUFFA operative. The retort on that other message board to any pro-UFC post is to simply accuse the poster of being paid by ZUFFA.
Yet, somehow all the pro-Strikeforce or pro-EliteXC posts were all completely legit, written by “true MMA fans”. (Even posts like “EliteXC will overtake the UFC in 5 years”)
I personally take for granted that there are paid posters (or at the least company employees) on all message boards representing whatever they are paid to represent.
by Bob Loblaw TX on Jun 25, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
The topic is old news, yet the proof is very interesting. Rumors of Tito leaving the show were running rampant well before the “leaked” footage. Good play Dana.
by magneto on Jun 25, 2010 11:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah...
I’m sure there are at least 5 regulars on this site who shill professionally. And if you know who it is, they aren’t good at it.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Again
I feel the need to clarify
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 25, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
The end of that was actually mildly directed at you, but more at others
like mmalogic. People know they don’t have to take him seriously, because he has his stance and we all know it. That’s not good viral marketing, that’s just using social media. So very basic.
You… everybody knows where you stand as well. Entertaining and fun commenter. Not a great viral marketer.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
The shit I got sells itself :-D
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 25, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know who, I'd just be shocked if there aren't
unless you count Snowden constantly plugging his book.
And this is my personal account, but you better believe I plug things I like and work with. I didn’t hide that I was working on Washington Combat, and I talked about it a shitload on here and posted the results in a fanshot.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Oh well Snowden is a given, he’s definately working for Jonathan Snowden.
I never knew you worked for Washington Combat, but then I was joking to start with, thus the smiley face under the statement.
I was doing some work for them, consulting and assisting
but was not directly employed. It was honestly a wonderful show though, very well run for a regional, and the matchmaking was great. Main event was what it was, but everything beneath it was awesome. Marco Galvao has a fire underneath him now and looks scary.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Maybe lazy now,
but in 2006 it was probably pretty cutting edge. Shows just how far ahead the UFC is in terms of embracing the Internet and its opportunities.
by gavingavinkindgavin on Jun 25, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
nah...
man, movie companies with the viral game shit? that was some cutting edge shit. This isn’t the UFC being ahead of the curve, nor are they behind it. They’re pretty much right in line (which is a fine thing)
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 25, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I will take up that challenge
On second thought, no. I have seen these campaigns and tactics first hand as well, and while personally I don’t approve of someone claiming such-and-such is the best movie all summer, it’s nothing for me to get worked up about. BUT THIS IS MMA AND THAT MEANS IT’S IMPORTANT! But seriously the only thing that gets me worked up is stuff like the “Fedor turned down 30 million” campaign of last year. Stuff like that is damaging, and with how small the mma media is, there is no push-back.
What viral clip from 2006 is this email exchange about?
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 25, 2010 9:43 AM EDT reply actions
nevermind
“The mentioned episode is from TUF Season 4 entitled ‘Blood Bath’.”
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 25, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't believe everything you read and hear.
Anyone with half a brain knows that companies do this kind of stuff all the time, and it’s easy to do, but it’s really interesting to see the actual thought process behind it, and the decisions that are made. That being said, people need to be smart about this sort of stuff and know that not everyone on a message board is your friend. People have agendas. And ultimately, companies can do all the shilling they want on message boards, but the product’s quality and the market will dictate whether it has legs. If the product sucks, it’s not going to last long. Fortunately for the UFC, their product is top notch.
top notch??
Ufc is more watered down than fake perfume at a flea market. Are you serious?? Top notch?? A watered down $50 ppv every other week with the same thing over and over and over. I called out lots of ‘fanboys’ years ago saying they must work for dana. Turns out I WAS arguing with a bunch of interns all along.
What bothers me the most is when another promotion does something like this dana rags on them. Now I’m convinced he called the guys at m-1 mafia because that’s the world dana lives in. The fertittas if anyone are most likely a mafia family. How did a ‘fertitta’ family get rich enough to get into the casino business?? Good education?? Honest work?? Cmon we all saw godfather. Ufc is the mafia in mma. So annoying.
by PipRocks on Jun 25, 2010 10:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I am serious. The shows the UFC puts on, the production value, the quality of fights – nothing out there compares. Their nearest competitor, Strikeforce, has problems even fitting a card into a proper time slot most of the time. Say what you want about Dana and crew, or how they do business, or what their perceptions are, but if you can’t even admit the basic reality that the product they put on is the best in the business, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I wouldn’t call their production anything less than top notch but when I watch a ppv especially pay for it I don’t wath for the production. I watch for the fights. And there’s nothing so special about the fights that are put on that makes it worth all that money. Its waaaaay overpriced and overhyped. They can have all 25 top ranked fighters in every division and id still rather watch a strikeforce show cause the fighters are putting on the better fights. Gsp is boring on 1000 levels. And they haven’t had a worthy contender for a. Silva for years. Chael sonnen is one of the worst yet. Now the ppvs are one sometimes two fighters and the rest are just fillers.
If I want production ill listen to a good cd. I’ve been watching ufc for years now. The production isn’t worth paying for. Its the fights. And they have enough all american division 1 wrestlers to make me sick. I can’t stand what they have have become. I was a fan but now I am appalled with ufc. Not trying to build a fanclub of haters here either, that’s just me. I’m a honest dude who values integrity. Ufc is not real.
by PipRocks on Jun 25, 2010 10:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You're in a very small minority
Your opinions represent a very very very small portion of MMA fans. Honestly, if you don’t like the UFC product, then stop watching it.
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
if you don’t like the UFC product, then stop watching it.
I think I have heard Dana say the same thing… I think everybody is going to very leary of Zuffa posters these days.
And it's silly
Dana has said the same thing before, and he’s right. Not everyone who agrees is a paid poster. But there are some who will take that stance because it’s a convenient way out of a real conversation.
I have accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as my personal Heavyweight Champion!
Baptized in Coors Light and Jack's Links jerky!!!
Dressed in my heavenly DeathClutch robes!!!
Okay, so you don’t want to watch the best fighters…that’s fine. That puts you in a tiny minority of sports fans. If you just want rock’em sock’em robots, go watch your local MMA event where a bunch of skill-less fighters go at it. The fact is that the more skilled the fighters become, the more likely they are to neutralize each other’s strengths which leads to more technical fights.
Also, the fact that says you are a “honest dude who values integrity” problem means the opposite. In my life, I’ve found that “honest dudes” don’t ever mention that they are honest, while liars and cheaters make it a point to talk about their “integrity”.
by Bob Loblaw TX on Jun 25, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I watch lots of great fighters. On showimte and cbs. We won’t know who is the best. But I won’t ever pay to see ufc fighters on ppv that I will admit.
by PipRocks on Jun 25, 2010 12:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Rec’d for the second paragraph
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jun 25, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The fights are a part of the production, buddy.
The fights, the commentators, the graphics, everything – that’s the whole product. And if you don’t like wrestling, then you can just go watch some K-1 fights.
And here it is
an example of a Strikeforce intern!!
If I had the choice I would rather post for strikeforce and keep it real. They’re doing something genuine. Ufc is all bullshit.
by PipRocks on Jun 25, 2010 10:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah.
Bobby Lashley, Herschel Walker, Bautista are all genuine.
Yeah that’s it.
by gavingavinkindgavin on Jun 25, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Its not like they signd kimbo. They had first rights to him. I’m not arguing. Its obvious. If you wanna be a dick have fun.
by PipRocks on Jun 25, 2010 12:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You just don't have a leg to stand on
if you push Strikeforce as a fully “genuine” product.
I like Strikeforce a lot, and I love the freakshows, but you just sound like an idiot if you pretend that SF somehow has more integrity than Dana’s promotion.
Kimbo was never pushed as a contender, and was cut after two terrible performances.
SF is going to sign Kimbo. It’s going to happen, then they’ll match him up with Herschel.
by gavingavinkindgavin on Jun 25, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
There it is, folks.
PipRocks is just keeping it real. We can’t argue with that, can we?
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Sure, let’s keep it real. I will never pay for anything that says ufc on it. I watch them on free internet.
by PipRocks on Jun 25, 2010 12:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just ignore PipRocks...
He did this same kind of anti-UFC/Strikeforce nuthugging on MMAJunkie all the time. He’s just a troll that will never make a valid point and just always say that Strikeforce is the best and the UFC is scum.
Yep
The fact that the UFC/Dana did this: Who gives a shit, everyone does.
The thought process/behind the scenes being revealed about it: Interesting!!
Who remembers that picture of Franklin/Liddell from the TUF house?
Sounds like exactly the same thing, down to the part where it says they want it to look like production leaked it. Interesting stuff.
"Sometimes hype just ain't enough." - Jens Pulver on his win over BJ Penn
by lowellthehammer on Jun 25, 2010 10:00 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah, that probably attracted more viewers who wanted to see why and how Tito got kicked off the show. Could have easily been intentional.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 25, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m just amazed that they care this much about “internet fans.” Isn’t the usual talking point that the UFC’s bread and butter is the “casual fan” that doesn’t read MMA web sites?
I’m amazed that you are amazed at Dana talking out of both sides of his mouth.
by judonerd on Jun 25, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As of right now, there are 11 "interesting"s on this page.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 25, 2010 10:10 AM EDT reply actions
That's an interesting statistic.
I’d be interested to see how many more show up in the next few hours.
"Sometimes hype just ain't enough." - Jens Pulver on his win over BJ Penn
by lowellthehammer on Jun 25, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
This is a Non story
As someone who has worked in the marketing world for 11 years (7 on the web), what zuffa did is standard practice in marketing. Every company out there with any real web presence does viral/astroturfing/fake fan marketing on blogs, boards, etc.
It doesn’t have much to do with being obsessing over MMA web sites/message boards, it’s just a part of their marketing plan. Hell, companies I’ve worked for have done the same thing and even paid customers to write blog posts.
The real question?
When does this list of paid Zuffa message board posters and blog commenters leak? I have some ideas.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 25, 2010 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I wish I could get paid to play on message boards...
Oh wait. I am at work right now. I guess I already do.
This e-mail refers to posters posing as fans. When do we get the e-mail referring to posters posing as jet-setting Zuffa insiders?
by JRN on Jun 25, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Please read Piprocks posts in this thread. Who is paying him?
by Bob Loblaw TX on Jun 25, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t like the feeling of trying to be manipulated. Their slogan is ‘as real as it gets’. I was never convinced but the amount of drooling fans waiting in line to eat another bullshit popsicle is what bothers me. I expected ufc to be anything but this.
by PipRocks on Jun 25, 2010 10:26 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
That's all PipRocks does...
He used to do the same thing at MMAJunkie and he will never quit. It’s best to just ignore him. He never makes valid points and I had an argument with him at the Junkie about the slogan. It went nowhere with him just spewing garbage and never backing up anything he said.
Thats just what a UFC plant would say at a time like this…
by Dropkick434 on Jun 25, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The best way for a plant to never get caught,
is to make sure everyone is accused of being a plant. Hmmmm… and so it begins!
Lol.
Made my day. One of my favorite movies of all time. The awesome thing about that movie is that it stands the test of time. Still looks perfect almost 30 years later.
Yeah, they keep talking about remaking it, but I don’t see why. This is very close to perfection.
John Carpenter+Kurt Russell=win, win, win!
Prequel
That’s what they say. So hopefully they won’t trash Carpenter’s version with their CGI. I heard it’s going to be about the Norwegians that came into contact with the alien before the Americans did.
That's why you shouldn't take Anti Fedor comments seriously.
All a buch of paid shills.
I wish I could get paid for saying Werdum is going to end the Fedor win streak. Seriously, I have like…fifty cents in my bank account, let’s get some direct deposit rolling in this bitch.
"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jun 25, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait...
so you’re telling me a president of a large company lied to the general public?
Yeah that’s never happened before.
"I drop knowledge so heavy it leaves the world unbalanced, Exterminate the spiritual force of all that challenge, I'm the lyrical apocalypse that crumbles the granite, Replacing you as the dominant species on the planet" - Immortal Technique
If anyone knows where I can make some money posting on the internet all day instead of doing a real job let me know, I will be more than happy to shill absolutely anything if paid enough money. It’s got to be better money than I make working for the government and I’m on the internet all the time anyway. I mean I think that viral marketing is overall a stupid thing but then there are plenty of silly weak willed people out there who will believe just about anything, particularly if it’s said on the internet so if anyone needs someone to post all day about how cool product X is for the right price I am your man. At least that way when my wife get mad at me for being on the computer too much and I tell here that I am working I would be telling the truth.
Given their success with viral videos and the amount of online buzz Bellator gets as the ‘promoter who is doing it right’, I am surprised no one has put two & two together yet. Chris Blechschmidt, who is featured prominently in those emails, now works for Bellator. He has definitely brought his astroturfing expertise to his new employer.
Also, this isn’t the first time Zuffa employees have left the evil empire and spread their astroturfing gospel at a new employer. The IFL got sued for poaching the Zuffa front offices and, not surprisingly, they had a number of ardent ‘fans’ online who sung their praises at every possible turn.
Zuffa is not the promoter out there running game on the MMA message boards and blogs.
My question on this topic is who is paying the other guys. There are some people that keep posting the same anti-UFC drivel all over the place, and some of it so nonsensical that I hope for their sake they are getting paid, but everyone who goes against the UFC runs out of money.
Either there is a huge conspiracy out there bankrolling this or there are lots of morons inhabiting the mma forum culture.
Interesting Yes, Wrong Absolutely Not
Nice find Mr. Brookhouse. Very interesting. This just confirms what we all know happens. Is Tito not fighting Liddell? I don’t know? Oh man, Dana is mad that someone leaked that! Wait, who is he going to fight now? Oh man, I better watch the next episode before I read a spoiler on Bloodyelbow!
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