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Fertitta Owned Casino's Federal Indictment May Quell Thoughts of UFC Union

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MMA fans and the MMA media talked extensively this month about the possibility of fighters in the UFC joining together to form a union. Lost in this story? The fact that the Fertitta family has a long and contentious history of alleged anti-union activity. Don't believe me? How about good old Uncle Sam?

The federal government’s complaint alleges that, from February 19 through April 7, Station managers broke federal labor laws 127 times. The complaint charges Station Casinos with engaging in a host of illegal activities against workers seeking to exercise their right to form a union, including the use of threats, intimidation, interrogation, surveillance, bribery, discouragement, discrimination, discipline and physical assault. No other Las Vegas gaming company has racked up so many federal government charges in such a short amount of time.

At the UFC Fan Expo held in Las Vegas prior to UFC 114, Lorenzo Fertitta addressed a fan's question about whether it was time for a fighter's union. Although Fertitta said the company had no role in deciding whether a union was appropriate for the fighters, he proceeded to explain in no uncertain terms why he didn't believe one was "necessary":

One of the things that's a little bit different is that fighting in general – I know a lot of people have talked about the same issue in boxing – fighting seems to be such a individual sport. And guys have different needs and different motivations, and what's good for a guy like Chuck Liddell is maybe not good for a kid like Paul Kelly coming up. They have different needs and are at different times in their careers, so I'm not sure if it works or not.

Despite assurances to the contrary, it seems apparent that fighters will face a fierce fight if they attempt any sort of collective bargaining posture, whether a union or Rob Maysey's MMAFA:

Workers at Station Casinos are standing up to join the Culinary and Bartenders unions because they want a better life for themselves and their families," said Culinary Union President Geoconda Arguello-Kline. "The company has responded not only with an aggressive anti-union campaign resulting in the government issuing a massive labor law complaint, but with an attack that is falling overwhelmingly on Latino workers.

Fighters and managers have complained quietly behind the scenes about the UFC's predatory business practices. The government's complaint shows that alleged unscrupulous behavior may not limited to the fight business.

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fighting seems to be such a individual sport. And guys have different needs and different motivations, and what’s good for a guy like Chuck Liddell is maybe not good for a kid like Paul Kelly coming up. They have different needs and are at different times in their careers, so I’m not sure if it works or not.

This is a valid point.

No two fighters are the same and unions could easily get in the way of individual progress as much as it could aide in individual pay. What would a union be able to influence? Howe much power would they have, these are very valid questions.

by truck on Jun 24, 2010 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Valid point but incomplete

fighters may have different needs at different times but I think every fighter, at every stage of his career would appreciate health insurance. That’s something a union may be able to obtain.

"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"

by lcollins1 on Jun 24, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

For sure...

…but unions can ask for and take too much power at times…

What if the union tries to dictate who can sign where or can fight for titles at various stages of their careers. Getting in the way of signings, releases and matchmaking are real issues. Minumum salaries could also take work away from fighters that are just starting out. Will the smaller promotions be able to afford it? Will they be able to afford insurance? Lots of things could get in the way… :S

by truck on Jun 24, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

A union would likely have nothing to do with smaller promotions. It would be a collective of UFC fighters.

"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 24, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm....

That gets into some really funny areas then…

What about Strikeforce?

What if a legit competetor develops?

Would the UFC having a union make them more desirable to fighters and have a bigger edge on the competition?

Would the unioin get in the way of signings?

Would autonomy with contracts make it harder to sign top end fighters or bottom end fighters?

Lots of questions…

by truck on Jun 24, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those are good questions

Of course other athlete unions have operated just fine without affecting talent acquisition and other management operations.

"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 24, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you look at the history of sports unions in the US, the only substantial gain for star athletes is free agency… which is completely contrary to a “within the UFC” union. The NFL’s union was, for a long time, dominated by role player types so instead of free agency they would demand things like higher meal per-diem or retirement benefits. The NBA union, however, has always been more concerned with the elite in its ranks, so free agency was always their primary concern in CBA negotiations.

So if you look at a union made up of just UFC fighters, then the problem quickly becomes the only people with negotiation leverage (the stars) have nothing to gain from the union without the carrot of free agency.

Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.

by Stanlee on Jun 24, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

guaranteed contracts were a huge “substantial gain” for MLB athletes. The NHL has a comprehensive system of health benefits, including emergency psych access.

"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"

by lcollins1 on Jun 24, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree but when a

fighter is 100% of the value (not so in team sports) things get complicated. Big Mac tried to sign a long term deal with St Louis years ago that the union just laughed off. They wouldn’t even consider any of the proposed options from McGuire or the Cardinals.

I think that is where things could get dicey. Jake Shields right now would have issues with a union. Trying to leave on promoter as a champ. We would see promoter avoid promoting the Huertas of the world. Why spend the dollars on a good fighter who has the potential to become a huge problem?

by Riney on Jun 24, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unions for team sports are a very different situation...

1) You have free agency, with teams competeing for players. This can’t happen in the UFC.
2) You have drafts where teams pick prospects. This can’t happen in the UFC.

What can be used to drive up wages?

Health care is great, but a lot of the other things are problematic.

MMA is an individual sport and you have to look at other individual sports for reference. Sports such as Boxiong, Tennisand Golf are better comparisons.

by truck on Jun 24, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is much more likely to resemble SAG or another like group. It won’t necessarily affect negotiations at the high end of the pay scale at all. More likely to deal with insurance, pension, likeness rights, a standard contract, etc.

"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 24, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those are good things...

Standard contract may be a tough on though. Picking up local fighters or replacement fighters on a one fight contract could get complicated.

by truck on Jun 24, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be. But it could be like one of the NBA’s 15 Day contracts. Of course there is a ton of work to be done. That is what the lawyers are for!

"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 24, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Assuming

The fighters want to do this in the first place.

"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 24, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am all for it if they can find a way to make it work...

It won’t be easy though. Fighters aren’t unified enough.

by truck on Jun 24, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

And will fighters fight their union brothers?

by Kwisatz Haderach on Jun 24, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you worried about something like this?

Section 13 of the Union Act states
That no union member shall, hit, strike or threaten any othe union member. Failure to follow this rule will result in expulsion from the union.

by truck on Jun 24, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Comically so, yes. It’s bad enough that guys don’t want to fight training partners!

by Kwisatz Haderach on Jun 24, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure the ATP tour (tennis) is run by the players.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Jun 24, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

that’s a good comparison. Players were black-balled in the 1960s and 70s as they tried to break the ranks of professional promoters. For a while pros like Pancho Gonzales (considered the GOAT by some) were prevented from playing in the majors because of their ties to a pro-ATP perspective. But the players, and the union perspective, won out in the end.

"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"

by lcollins1 on Jun 24, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

but how does that work when not all fighters spend their whole career in the UFC? many guys not at the top have that lose a couple fights or so and your cut (which is warranted). and if they win a few outside, they might be back in the UFC

so what happens when some fighter get a 2 or 3 year run in the UFC and is then cut, goes onto making a career with other orgs? is he entitled to the same benefits? does he qualify for the ongoing benefits?

with the ability for a fighter to change promotions so easily it just wouldnt work creating a union thats UFC only. UFC is not the “NFL” of mma that dana wants it to be and until that happens there’s gonna be a lot of guys who are in and out of that union frequently

union for other sports work cause the members dont go changing leagues (read mma promotions in our instance)

if anything, a UFC only union probably works against other promotions cause all the fighters will wanna get into the UFC for it

by milson on Jun 24, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Long live the free market.

by casey manrique on Jun 24, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is this at all surprising to anybody

of am I just desensitized to this shit?

Not a knock on the article in any way, serious question. Thanks Jonathan.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 24, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

i feel the same way

Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death

MMA For Real

by Anthony Pace on Jun 24, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think all of us had this discussion at least… twice?

by John Nash on Jun 24, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope. I’m in the same boat as you. Which is why I’m going to sit this one out.

by pud333 on Jun 24, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

"what's good for a guy like Chuck Liddell is maybe not good for a kid like Paul Kelly coming up"

The same is true of baseball players, and yet the MLBPA is a strong union.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 24, 2010 2:07 PM EDT reply actions  

you are missing the thing everyone misses when they bring this up. When the MLBPA was formed, everyone was getting screwed equally.

The unions in the other sports formed when NONE of the players were happy, so it made sense for them all to band together to improve conditions for everyone. That is not the current case in the UFC, which will make forming the union harder.

by Phildo on Jun 24, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not 100% true

Guys like Carl Yazstremski fought to screw the lesser-paid MLBers until the bitter end – it doesn’t take every single fighter being on the same page, but it would take most of the mid-levels and at least a solid chunk of the draws.

You know when it will happen? When these elite guys realize that their camps are better when the guys they train with are fed.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jun 24, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t see it. In team sports the utility players have value. Your superstar QB is no good if he doesn’t have time to throw and is on his back all game. In mma you could put in mediocre (but hopefully exciting) fights on the whole card and as long as it had a big main event it would still sell. I think UFC 114 and 116 prove this.

by John Nash on Jun 24, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but these “big main event” fighters don’t train in a vacuum. A place like AKA, with a bunch of awesome fighters but no champs, would probably be all kinds of behind some sort of revenue sharing – it’s camp-by-camp. Remember how ATT completely chucked AKA under the bus over the Fitch/video game rights situation? There is no uniformity, and every superstar used to be a scrub. There are no #1 draft picks in MMA.

I’m not as pessimistic, and I’m also more pro-union than most of the posters here. I like weekends, for instance.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jun 24, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Initial thoughts

IANAL, but this is a pretty damn extensive complaint. Multiple management and supervisory staff members in each of the Station Casino facilities engaged in a pattern of conduct that makes it hard to argue that these were isolated cases of people going against company policy.

The themes are basically classic anti-union tactics: denial of legally-guaranteed organizing rights (the ability to speak to fellow employees on and off the job, for instance), real and threatened retaliation for signing a membership card or supporting the union, interrogation of employees to find out who other union supporters/organizers are, etc.

Whatever you think of unions, there are laws that guarantee certain rights to workers trying to organize, and based on this complaint from the NLRB, it looks as if Station Casinos engaged in a deliberate effort to violate those rights. They can expect to be hit with a pretty massive fine, and their future practices are going to be under close scrutiny, which will make it harder for them to fight off further unionization efforts.

The key takeaway: the best way to fight off unionization is to not treat your workers like crap.

by Verklemptomaniac on Jun 24, 2010 2:09 PM EDT reply actions  

History had some other pretty effective strategies:

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 24, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

So sayeth my awesome beard!

If only Berkman was a better shot…

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 24, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Henry Frick? I’ve had worse bosses.

by John Nash on Jun 24, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

But have you had one beardlier?

And if anybody is wondering: no, I don’t feel bad distracting from the comments section, because this is really unlikely to have any productive conversation anyways.

Summary of what’s to come: Fertitta’s are mafia, no they aren’t, fuck Dana he’s greedy, Herring wants his Ferrari lawl, health insurance, Ayn Rand bullshit.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jun 24, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

This ^^^

I apologize for my never-ending assault on the English Language. I feel like Qui the promoter from Jade Empire...

by xAtlasx on Jun 24, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn. that’s strong.

(This coming from an emotionally stunted adult who read the fountainhead at ~14)

by Gerrymanderer on Jun 24, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obama

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jun 24, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh...

Problem is that if the employer plays their cards right, they can become the only game in town, and local governments would rather not have roaming populations of the angry and unemployed.

by Chortles on Jun 24, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats called Wal Marting

Root for the home team jack ass

by KING FEDOR on Jun 24, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I fanposted a link to this story a couple months back.

It was on npr, might be a dead link by now, though.

http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com

by some schmuck in texas on Jun 24, 2010 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

lol

www.facebook.com/djpullout
www.twitter.com/djpullout
www.myspace.com/djpullout
www.djpullout.com
AIM = djpullout
info@djpullout.com

by DJ Pullout on Jun 24, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Read this about their mafia ties....

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f44/ufc-zuffas-ties-mob-mafia-organized-crime-438816/

www.facebook.com/djpullout
www.twitter.com/djpullout
www.myspace.com/djpullout
www.djpullout.com
AIM = djpullout
info@djpullout.com

by DJ Pullout on Jun 24, 2010 2:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm sorry, is that a link to the Sherdog forums?

I’ll save everyone the time and post the relevant quote from the banned user:

There is no evidence to suggest that current owners of the UFC, Lorenzo Fertitta and Frank Fertitta III have any active connections to organized crime.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jun 24, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

You really are relentless

I admire that.

However, I’m going to search far and wide for a torrent of the pdf, just to spite you

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Jun 24, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's out there

Unfortunately. I have one on my Kindle.

"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 24, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean

Don’t do it.

"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 24, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was my point Subo....

No ties at all.

www.facebook.com/djpullout
www.twitter.com/djpullout
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AIM = djpullout
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by DJ Pullout on Jun 24, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Fertitta’s father’s friend’s and associates from Texas had mob connections.That is the extent of the story.

In other news,Dana White’s great grandmother once had sex with a black man!!

Check out my MMA highlight videos!
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by Brian Mayes on Jun 25, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

Not at all.

"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 25, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

They better be really sure that they want a Union, because with all the advantages a union has, there’s a host of unwanted side-effects that come with it. I’ve been in one big Union before (local 40 I believe) a long time ago and my wife was in a pilot’s union and if anyone believes that there isn’t an ugly underbelly to Unions they’re kidding themselves. It certainly isn’t the most ideal solution. To me it’s like kicking addcition to cigarettes by becoming an alcoholic.

by Dooda on Jun 24, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Fighters should have health insurance. Its kinda disgusting that they dont.

Your style's like garbage cans meant to be taken out on a weekly basis
Ever since your first record you've been in a state of suspended animation
You look like Snuffleuffagus and Australopithecus
Me cray, you abacus

by ProfessorBLove on Jun 24, 2010 2:26 PM EDT reply actions  

The math is scary. The minimum they would be spending would probably be $1,000 per month per fighter. At 250 fighters, that is $250,000 PER MONTH. That is no joke. If you throw in families, you can double that number. $3-$6 million dollars per year is not small change, it is a big, big business decision.

However, in the long run, they should definitely provide some sore of health care program…it is a great preventative measure against future unionization.

by Bob Loblaw TX on Jun 24, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I logged in to rec this comment

by TheBiggertheyare... on Jun 24, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not like the fighters don't want to work

How often do you have to fight somebody at your work? How often does performing your job leave you injured and out of a contract?

It’s a very flighty job market for a fighter, and it’s not out of bounds for them to seek a little stability.

by capital L on Jun 25, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to rely on

my tenants paying their rent on time and not trashing my place. I just had a woman leave a house that will require me to spend $10,000 to get it livable again. After the $10,000, I still have to make mortgage payments, insurance, TAXES and the down time (not collecting rent for 3 months).

We all have stability issues in our daily lives, kids get sick, cars break down, house needs a new roof. The difference is, I am not asking for a handout. I take care of it myself.

I worked at night delivering pizzas to pay for the 1st renovation to a rental I did. MLB players used to work during the off season, I feel no sympathy for those who have options. Contrary to popular belief, there is work out there for anyone and everyone.

by Riney on Jun 25, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know that the fighters are necessarily asking for a “handout.” It is not unusual for employees to receive benefits from their employers.

by capital L on Jun 25, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

And let me add that I don’t feel that a union is necessarily the most appropriate or practical method for these employees to achieve their goals. It just strikes me as odd that they could be accused of seeking a free lunch.

by capital L on Jun 25, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is an employee...

…negotiating a benefit a “handout?” Enough of your bizarre rants.

"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 25, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

They should have health insurance but it should be private health insurance. They should be allowed to choose the insurance they want, not the union. No one is forcing them to fight. They choose to fight and they all know the consequences.

by Godwulf on Jun 24, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

So which Fertitta is being indicted?

Because looking at the document, Station Casino and it’s properties are named. Not an individual. And if you look at the named Respondents, there’s not a Fertitta to be found. Yet another example of trying to stretch and make a connection to the current Station Casinos, Zuffa, mob ties, anti-union activities, etc. But hey, then the article title doesn’t look as awesome!

Fighters should be more worried about finding a way to collectively get health insurance and ways to secure their long term financial needs and less about unrealistic things like collective bargaining.

by LiuLang on Jun 24, 2010 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

LOL@ discussion of UFC fighters EVER starting a union.

Forget about what’s right and wrong and focus on reality. No fighter-organized union could have teeth unless guys like Brock Lesnar and GSP were on board, and willing to give up multi-million dollar paydays in order to benefit other fighters.

Remember, Randy and Tito shut up real quick about the UFC’s unfair treatment of fighters AFTER they signed lucrative new contracts.

by MMABookworm on Jun 24, 2010 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't see why they'd need to give up lucrative contracts.

Again, there are many very well-payed baseball players. Once they’ve played for 6 years (during the first 6 years they have limited leverage), the salaries the top players earn in free agency are staggering.

Are you suggesting they’d earn more if the MLBPA didn’t exist?

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Jun 24, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think camps will end up growing into a sort of for profit union. I don’t think that’s better or worse than a standard union but it may suit the temperament of fighters better.

by Atgreat on Jun 24, 2010 3:26 PM EDT reply actions  

I’ll be straight forward here. I’ve never been a big fan of unions. Sure they had their time and place but everything they are doing nowadays is just insane.

A fighter should not be guaranteed health insurance. If you do not like the fact that you do not receive health insurance you have to very simple options. The first is to get over it and buy your own. The second is to find another job that provides it. When you enter the job market you quickly find out there are benefits and consequences in every field of work.

A fighter is never forced to sign a contract. When they step into a cage it is of their own free will.

by Godwulf on Jun 24, 2010 4:08 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Why would a fighter not be entitled to negotiate for that benefit? Is this not America sir?

"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 24, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of people want getting a job to be like buy a bag of chips at wal-mart. You take what’s offered or go to another store. Sometimes you get melamine in your chips.

by Atgreat on Jun 24, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well of course they could negotiate for that benefit. I’m simply saying it shouldn’t be a requirement. If you sign a contract with the benefit of health insurance more power to you.

by Godwulf on Jun 24, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve been a long time reader of BE and finally decided I should join the discussion. Give a little break to get used to it all. ;)

by Godwulf on Jun 24, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one has argued against the "right"

They are not saying it’s should be against the law to bargain or form a Union..

Just to stop blaming the UFC, Zuffa or the Fertittas for the lack of the Union or CBA.. If it was that important to the fighters, they would have done it long ago.. They know what they make and they’re not complaining as much as some of the bloggers are..

A CBA would require all promotions banning together against the fighters.. They would lose what little leverage they have as it stands..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

by MMAuthority on Jun 24, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, one they will be getting health insurance I guess if they are an american citizen is some shape or form, but that’s a different debate.

Two, they make enough money to purchase their own insurance. Most of them do anyhow, they just do not manage their money well enough.

by JeremyShane on Jun 24, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Red's for truth..

I guess some people just don’t see the reality of the situation as it is..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

by MMAuthority on Jun 24, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

eh, I think that the country is past the need for unions; gov’t regulation should take over. Not that that will happen either, but unions usually end up ruining businesses in this country (see auto industry, coal industry, etc.)

by JeremyShane on Jun 24, 2010 4:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I want fighters to have great benefits and a much greater wage floor; but the less leverage fighters have over matchmaking the better.

by Hirasawa Yui on Jun 24, 2010 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Unions would do the same thing ...

… that they do on almost every other industry they emerge in, and that is to stall advancement and impede progress. If a fighters union comes about, the Fertitta owners will initially fight it, and if they don’t defeat it, will begin to shop the UFC and eventually dump it on the highest bidder.

Since they have already proven that they are the innovators and can market the UFC in ways others have tried to do and failed, the stalemate and then decline of the sport would more than likely follow. Not that the UFC defines MMA, but they are very well connected with the athletic commissions and have been the major champions in the rise of MMA. It’s still too early in the growth of the sport for them to bow out, it’s not even "legal" in all 50 states yet.

by The Engineer on Jun 24, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

JUST A NOTE ABOUT THE STATION CASINOS...

This is not an arguement for or against a fighters union, but just so everyone knows, although they have been anti-union at the station casinos, I have a friend that works in Vegas and has told me that the station casinos pay more than most of the others, and if you look at the fortune 500’s 100 best companies to work for, the station casinos have been on that list for many years.

by metaldome on Jun 25, 2010 6:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh, and although at one time the unions were instrumental in creating better working conditions and may be able to do that for fighters, but at this point I think they control too much, and that is the reason for the downfall of the car and many other industries in the US. Not to get political, but…

According to the latest calculations, the gap between Japanese and American carmakers’ profits average out to about $2900 per vehicle, and a big reason is the cost of labor. As analyzed by Harbour-Felax, labor costs the Detroit Three substantially more per vehicle than it does the Japanese. While Nissan was making $1800 per vehicle during the first half of 2006, and Toyota and Honda racked up $1,400 apiece, nine-month results for Ford saw them losing $1,400 per vehicle, while DaimlerChrysler dropped $1100 and GM $333.

The only way these companies could survive naturally, would be to seek the safe haven of Chapter 11 bankruptcy so they could quickly reorganise production, renegotiate union contracts, and axe at least half of their dealership network. Unfortunately, with the government bailout this was not allowed to happen, an these companies will most likely continue on the same path that got them where they are now.

by metaldome on Jun 25, 2010 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fighters and managers have complained quietly behind the scenes about the UFC’s predatory business practices. The government’s complaint shows that alleged unscrupulous behavior may not limited to the fight business

So, just to be clear, you aren’t saying that the UFC’s business practices are predatory? Or that any sort of behavior is limited anywhere?

This is journalese at it’s finest. Nothing is actually stated directly; but a whole hell of a lot is insinuated.

by jhf884 on Jun 26, 2010 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

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