Miss Pride and Japanese MMA? There's Always Strikeforce
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 11:33 AM EDT
in MMA History
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Remember the glory days? We saw the best against the best inside the spacious Tokyo Egg Dome or the smaller Saitama Super Arena. In Saitama fans could sit peacefully in the John Lennon Museum's "Reflections" room while waiting for the show to start, fitting preparation for an audience about to stoically contemplate the meaning inherent in the finest combat athletes in the world gathering to do battle.
Many fans remember Japanese MMA this way: the smart and appreciative fans, the amazing athletes, the tremendous venues and presentations. What they tend to forget? The spectacle. Oh, the sordid spectacle.
Pride was built on the back of pro wrestler Nobuhiko Takada. Another pro wrestler, Naoya Ogawa, helped carry the promotion to tremendous heights. In K-1, things were even more wacky. Fighting not entertaining enough? Here's a comedian, a sumo wrestler, a very, very large black man.
The fact is, in between bouts between the best in the world, Japanese MMA featured a cavalcade of increasingly more bizarre publicity stunts and shock booking-all designed to capture the attention of a fickle and flighty audience. And, if things are as they appear to be, Strikeforce may soon be walking the very same road.
More after the jump.
Strikeforce has done a pretty good job of feasting on the UFC's left overs. Most of the world's best non-Zuffa fighters are competing there (and, oh yeah, the best fighter in the world). Fight pedigree alone, unfortunately, is not nearly enough. The promotion's best fighter not named Fedor Emelianenko, Jake Shields, has failed to draw even average ratings not once, but twice. The promotion got more attention from pro wrestler Bobby Lashley and 47-year old ex-football star Hershel Walker-and the competition wasn't particularly close.
The bottom line is, and always will be, the bottom line. Strikeforce needs ratings to survive, at least on CBS, and celebrities know this. Professional douchebag Spencer Pratt is making his play, baseball pariah Jose Canseco made an embarassingly desperate attempt to fight Walker, and now wrestling washout Dave Batista is lurking drunkenly in alleyways, just awaiting his opportunity. Dave Meltzer talked to Batista at the last Strikeforce show and he seemed serious about giving it a try.
I asked him like what he’s doing and he said ‘I’m unemployed and I’m working for work, that’s why I’m here in Los Angeles.’ So, he’s an unemployed wrestler looking for, him and Scott Hall. Looking for work, obviously looking for acting work and looking for, I mean, he talked to Scott Coker, you know, you can make of that what you will. You know I mean he was talking to Scott Coker and Scott came up to me and just goes, he goes, ‘you know we haven’t signed a deal yet, so don’t start saying that we have.’ So, um, I mean, I can’t imagine him doing MMA. The idea of it is… is ridiculous. Nevertheless, he was talking to people you know like he was intrigued and interested in doing it. Transcribed by Fight Opinion.
Batista may be one of many credibility sacrificing moves Strikeforce makes to keep their show on CBS. On Showtime they can rest easier, knowing that solid fights between professional fighters will draw a sustainable audience. On network television, it's a ratings grab. And, like it or not, Strikeforce will need to walk Pride and K-1's path to get the numbers they need. So bring on your Batistas, your Pratts, your Cansecos. Squeeze one more rating out of Kimbo Slice. Do what you need to do Scott Coker. If it means more Diaz, more Heun, more Melendez, and, yes, more Fedor, it's a price this fan will gladly pay.
Jonathan Snowden is the author of Total MMA: Inside Ultimate Fighting and The MMA Encyclopedia (in stores this winter). You can follow him on Twitter and Facebook.
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Oh yea
Not even going to post pics. Just gonna watch this get out of hand.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
I remember the show fights, but most of the Pride fights were great. Strikeforce forget to mention Shields was main or co main in four of the five CBS cards, and the fights he headlined recieved far less promotional dollars, including the Hendo fight.
by mixmaster2669 on Jun 23, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Spencer Pratt now? OMFG no.
Batista would be interesting to watch, only because I wanna see how long it takes for him to tear a muscle.
GO SPURS GO!!!
I would watch Batista fight Spencer Pratt, though. No doubt.
by the exit on Jun 22, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Freakshow MMA
Here’s hoping that someone put Kimbo v. Mariusz Purdzianowski together.
Twitter @brettcjones
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
BRETT JONES has a dream. That one day a power lifter and backyard street brawler will meet in a cage: TO SETTLE THE SCORE.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Excuse me, but the preferred billing is the the WORLD’S STRONGEST MAN versus the LEGENDARY STREET FIGHTER.
Twitter @brettcjones
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Jun 22, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather Pudz vs Sapp in a women’s 3×3 matchup
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jun 22, 2010 10:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I've talked about it before...
if I had the money to put it together I’d do Kimbo/Pudz in Chicago. Huge Polish population that loves their Polish fighters and Kimbo’s name value…combined I think you could turn a little bit of a profit.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 22, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
You just want a cool fight in Chicago! I would come up to see that I think. The crowd would be epic.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Have you seen Pudz leg kicks? Sloppy as hell but damn. Combine that with Kimbo’s bum legs and there is no point in that match.
the point in that match is that I would be making money…
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 22, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You should start a new series called:
Strikeforce Is:
Last week they were King of The Cage, this week they are PRIDE FC
by truck on Jun 22, 2010 10:11 AM EDT reply actions 10 recs
Confucious say
“Strikeforce many things to many people.”
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Tell that....
…to the voices in my head.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
by Body Triangle on Jun 22, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
so you just type randomn letters...
good post!
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
The odds of randomly typing "r" 50 times in a row are
Very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very low
by truck on Jun 22, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it was supposed to be errr?
as in the sound a weirded out person would make to hearing someone say something about hearing voices in their head. perhaps pictures are more your style:
by Body Triangle on Jun 22, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm sorry, you are right..
that makes is muuuuuuuuuuuuuch better.
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
haha what are you trying to say?
that my reply to the post:
Tell that….
…to the voices in my head
somehow has less merit than that?
dayum you must be punchdrank
by Body Triangle on Jun 22, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I see that you want to keep defending your post...
you win. It was a great post. I am finished discussing it. I am moving on. I bow to your witty typing. You rock!
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
Can you just copy and paste that onto one of my comments in the future? I want to know what it feels like to be a badass on the internet.
Dude, I am just trying to move on. Not quite sure what was “badass” about the post. I will be happy to copy and and paste it to whatever you want though. Just give me a heads up. :)
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
the badass part
was that sweet sarcasm wad you blew all up in your replies to my post.
Sounds to me like somebody has been eating too many tough guy sandwiches.
by Body Triangle on Jun 22, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
ooh also
I love the feaux-maturity being displ
by Body Triangle on Jun 22, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm from Canada, and they think I'm slow eh!
by Simboy on Jun 22, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
is the cat in a Pontiac G6?
Check out the Alpine deck and is that velour? If you can’t get laid in that youre lazy.
by Bob Boblaw on Jun 22, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BATISTA vs. WALKER!
I demand it!
And since they had a puffed up welterweight fighting a starving light heavyweight the other day, can I get Batista vs. Melendez next?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Fuck Melendez I want Rey Mysterio vs Batista. Winner gets the Ultimate Warrior.
by Bob Boblaw on Jun 22, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d tune in to watch someone smash Spencer Pratt’s face in on national TV. Coker, make this happen
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Jun 22, 2010 10:16 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Spencer Pratt wants to fight...
Seriously, where can I sign for this bout?
"50% of this sport is 90% mental" - Tim Sylvia
Does anyone else give Meltzer the voice of a 13 year old girl when reading, his like, you know, like quotes?
His writing pretty much mirrors his speech.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jun 22, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait
The Spencer Pratt thing is over a year old. And he wasn’t fighting, he was following Kevin Casey around.
GO SPURS GO!!!
He is training and angling.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Could you be a little more specific...
about the “angling” part?
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
I remember there being a pretty big thread on the UG
about Pratt fighting Jason Chambers (Human Weapon guy with pretty hair). I don’t know if SF would book that one but I would watch just to see Pratt get KTFO, Chambers is semi-legit and I loved Human Weapon.
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
Am I the only one who has never heard of Spencer Pratt?
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
How lucky can somebody be if they've never seen
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
by jemaleddin on Jun 22, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
THE SOUP!
(Dunno how that got posted… D’oh.)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
by jemaleddin on Jun 22, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hadn't either
until he started popping up in MMA news.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 22, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
No worries.
I had to look it up.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jun 22, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The Hills was sadly a guitly pleasure of mine...
and he frequently would talk about how he earned a purple belt in jits in like 2 years…
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
From a guy
that gave himself a blackbelt after getting kicked out of Rickson’s academy.
Read me trying to be funny at:
www.huggingnuts.com
I heard about him HERE
The news was something like “Spencer Pratt is working diligently to destroy MMA” and it was the Kevin Casey music video.
I'm a lover not a fighter
Personally I'm not a fan of Freakshow's
Just my opinion
I loved everything about this piece
Well done. In very few words, you managed to put both PRIDE (too cappy) and Strikeforce into proper perspective. Fantastic.
Nice article... The Freak Show element of Strikeofrce is a big part of what they do...
MMA by Stirkeforce is presented as a spectacle instead of a sport.
Every thing from the odd ball fighters, to the matchmaking to how the shows are presented scream spectacle.
Why else would Lashley and Hersh be given squash matches and promote them as worth while matches?
Why else would Strikeforce devalue their own titles by letting champs walk or not fight?
Why else would they place title fights below non title fight main events.
I don’t have a problem with a little bit of Freak Show here and there, but that can’t be the whole deal. Strikeforce is walking a fine line. They haven’t irritated me in a major way to this point.
So you’re telling me Zuluzinho vs Butterbean wasn’t a legit matchup between two elite heavyweights? Bullshit…
Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is. I get more stunts and props than Bruce Willis- Guru
I was shocked too
but after thorough research I have determined, sadly, no.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
The superheavyweight division has always been pretty thin.
by VenusBlue on Jun 22, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Strikeforce still searching for there Brock Lesnar. Problem is he was a one of a kind. Freakshow + strong base = win. All they seem to be able to find is freakshow.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
What is the definition of freakshow exactly? I thought it was “a fighter who is brought in based on something other than his fighting ability”, but you can’t really deny that the skills Brock has shown make him worthy of the UFC.
which is why he is rare. Very few freak shows become anything more then that.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Jun 22, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
4-1 champ Brock Lesnar is an MMA fighter and crossover star.
1-0 Brock Lesnar fighting a former champ is a freak show.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Brock is not a freakshow
Maybe it started with that intention but Brock is a legit athlete with a very legit skillset. He’s a freak in the sense that he’s a once in a lifetime find for the sport but he isn’t a freakshow.
I agree but Brock vs Mir I was a spectacle. Dana didn’t know how it was going to turn out. He rolled the dice and came up 7. it could of just as easily crapped out.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Jun 22, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure
But there were plenty of reasons to believe Brock Lesnar could be successful at MMA. Besides being freakishly (pardon the pun) athletic for a man his size, he comes from and NCAA division 1 wrestling background, a background that has proven extremely successful in this sport. That he was once a successful and popular pro wrestler and was willing to take a sink or swim approach to his career made him the perfect storm in terms of being a pro fighter.
hence why i put Freakshow + strong base. Brock has already said if MMA was where it is today he would of never went to WWE but at the time he could make six figures straight out of college and he wouldn’t come near that in MMA. Brock had the credentials to enter MMA off gate but didn’t.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Jun 22, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't mind SF freakshow fights
If they replaced their goddam commentators. All of them. Not a single one is any good.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
Quadros and Militech are pretty good...
…but they only appear on Showtime unfortunately.
www.mmalinker.com
by exsanguinator on Jun 22, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
definitely agree
and he may want one forever, seeing as he is a zombie.
by Body Triangle on Jun 22, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Its not like Strikeforce hasn’t been doing it the whole time. Did people really take Cung Le vs. random jobber as serious competitive bouts? Or Baroni/Shamrock as a great world class fight? Shamrock/Gracie? LOL if so.
Things went downhill fast when they lost Frank.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Is he not able to fight anymore?
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on Jun 22, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget Sapp-Nortje
That is my all-time favorite Strikeforce freakshow.
They need to do Nick Diaz vs Spencer Pratt immediately. I would watch Diaz punish douchebags all day
You just loved the Nashville card then
didn’t you?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Strikeforce on CBS
Batista vs The Undertaker special referee Ricky Hatton.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Jun 22, 2010 10:43 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Concerning Batista…anyone from an athletic background who wants to break into MMA deserves as much of a shot as anyone I suppose. But he doesn’t have the legitimate competitive background of a Brock Lesnar, or even Bobby Lashley, to really think of him as someone who could develop into a force beyond a couple of freakshow matches. Add in that he’s 40 years old, and has a history of muscle tear injuries, and I’m not sure what he’s trying to accomplish.
from what I’ve heard he’s been training mma for at least a couple years. don’t remember what pro fighter it was that he trains with mentioned that.
by kanodogg on Jun 22, 2010 10:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What he's trying to accomplish
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
He could probably make a ton more money by staying in the WWE, so I don’t think that’s his only motivation.
Again
Batista hasn’t been signed by Strikeforce. Why are you letting reader’s misunderstandings stand in the comments, and replying to them as if they are true?
Also, I don’t understand how Batista would make more money in MMA than the WWE, which he recently retired from (presumably to take up MMA). But I don’t follow pro wrestling.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
I don’t see where you are coming from. I don’t say Batista has signed anywhere in the article. I mention his interest and then quote Super Dave Meltzer saying he hasn’t signed…
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Snowden
BATISTA HASNT SIGNED WITH STRIKEFORCE. how many times does he have to repeat it?
by Body Triangle on Jun 22, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Batista's athletic history
Consists of being a body builder and a professional wrestler. He doesn’t come from some kind of sporting background and certainly has no ingrained combat sports background.
I think he was a bodyguard for Motley Crue or some 80’s band. He’s busted some heads…
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure
But in the context of handling drunken groupies, not highly trained professional fighters.
All I’m saying is that no one should mistake him for Strikeforce’s answer to Brock Lesnar.
Plenty of stories around Vegas of bouncers handling professional fighters….
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I know you're playing Devil's Advocate
But there’s a distinct difference between a real world physical confrontation and a fight in the controlled environment of MMA.
WAR MACHINE
is hardly a professional fighter
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
Huh?
I hate War Machine as much as anyone, but the guy is a talented fighter. Sure, he couldn’t hang with the big boys in the UFC, but he can beat all but a handful of the guys outside of the UFC. He would be an immediate title contender in just about any other organization.
War Machine may be a jackass, but he is very solid fighter.
sigh
the emphasis was on professional, in the sense that he acts amateurish and unprofessional in every sense of the word. Sure, he is a talented fighter… but a professional? No.
I was using the argument between Snowden and Worldisart about bouncers to poke fun at War Machine getting his ass kicked by a bouncer at a gay bar or something of that nature.
Quit taking the internet so seriously.
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
My firend got smacked by a little gay dude outside of a bar in Minneapolis....
It was super funny!!
We were visiting from out of town and we had just left night club and we were walking back to our vehicle. As we were walking down the street and we saw the sign for what we both read as GAV 90’s.
My buddy was confused and said “What the fuck is GAV 90’s?”
Then some little gay dude walked up to him and said “It’s GAY 90’s bitch!” Then the little dude smacked my friend…
One of the funniest shits I’ve ever seen.
by truck on Jun 22, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great Article... Especially after that Fedor Nuthugging one yesterday :)
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
This might be a strategy...
Sprinkle in some really bad stuff so people really appreciate the good stuff.
This is a good write up, but some of them seem like they were written by someone else… :S
Man these comments are nearly as outrageous as I expected
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
arent*
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
by II SMASH II on Jun 22, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, spice it up.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I really like the analysis in this article, but it again flirts with misrepresentation.
I think you’re absolutely right – a little freak show will probably help Strikeforce a lot more than it helps. And you’re also right that Strikeforce probably will have to resort to freak show measures to keep its deal on CBS.
But the wording of the article is vague, and it could be said to be misleading, about the association of several “freak show” or celebrity fighters with Strikeforce, and the resulting confusion is evident in the comments. To wit: Spencer Pratt, Batista and Cansecos have all been rumored to be in negotiation with Strikeforce at several points, but all those rumors have been denied by Strikeforce.
Specifically, the Batista rumor was shot down unequivocably by Strikeforce yesterday, yet you imply the opposite in your article. As a result, commenters and readers are misinformed.
I like your analysis, but your failure to clearly present the facts hurts it much more than it helps it. You cuold still make your case on the back of the Strikeforce Lasley and Walker signings, and mention rumors about Pratt, Canseco, and Batista while making clear those rumors have been denied. Instead, I read a near-obfuscation of the facts in the article, and I mistrust your analysis much more as a result.
Fix it. Your writing will benefit.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
What was denied
Mike Afromowitz told everyone Strikeforce hadn’t signed Batista. That doesn’t mean they aren’t talking to him, or that they won’t sign him. My article doesn’t contend he has signed, in fact it includes a quote from Dave Meltzer specifically mentioning he has NOT signed.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I missed that in the quote. Apologies.
But, to be fair, the quote is pretty buried in the article. And it’s directly behind a sentence that implies several freakshows are associated with Strike that doesn’t make clear they aren’t:
Professional douchebag Spencer Pratt is making his play, baseball pariah Jose Canseco made an embarassingly desperate attempt to fight Walker, and now wrestling washout Dave Batista is lurking drunkenly in alleyways, just awaiting his opportunity.
Maybe I’m nitpicking a bit, and I want to be clear I think your idea is really compelling, but in the future I’d like to see a little bit more clarity about things as they actually stand. It makes you seem even more of an authoritative analyst on MMA matters, and would make your ideas even more compelling.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
I appreciate your feedback. I wasn’t trying to be tricky. I mentioned the freakshow fighters they had signed in one paragraph and then mentioned the ones looking to get in. I will strive for more clarity next time though.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks and apologies if I was unfair.
It’s a good piece, and I’d like to see Strikeforce add just a little freak to spice up its shows, and, as you astutely point out, they really need to.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
This article seems so unnecessary
I’d understand it if they had indeed signed Batista but since they didn’t there’s really nothing to comment on. Because they chose not to sign Batista they’re the home of freakshow fights? This is the sort of article that could have been(and probably was) run when they signed Herschel Walker, which was the last time they signed a celebrity to fight for them. All they’ve done since then is not offer contracts to people who don’t deserve them, so how is this article at all relevant?
They haven’t chosen not to sign Batista. They haven’t yet signed Batista. There is a difference.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
The article’s still more speculative than I care for.
It is speculative. But it is based on their willingness to ride Walker to a rating…
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
True but they've really only got two guys that fall into the freakshow category
That’s hardly the level of freakshow Pride was working with. And Bobby Lashely really only falls into that category because of the way they’re treating him. Put him on the prelims and he’s just another fighter, imo.
I like freakshow fights. I will watch freakshow fights.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I like the way you think kid
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don't think I ever expected someone to post a picture of Al Davis at me.
And I’m incredibly proud of myself for recognising Al Davis.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Freakshows make the world go round.
SAPPUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jun 22, 2010 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
You fail Snowden
4 of your mentioned fighters aren’t even signed with SF.
Those were 4 publicity stunts.
And stop disrespecting Herschel Walker.
The guy wanted to fight, trained and promoted his ass off for it.
His purse was given to charity.
SF put him against a lower level fighter to see where he’s at.
You’re right, they aren’t with Strikeforce. That better change soon, at least if the promotion wants to keep CBS.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I love freakshows!
Would love to see 2 old man fight. For example an overrated mma-er against an old boxer who can’t even talk.
Maybe James Toney VS Randy Couture.
Oh shit, this freakshow is happening soon in the UFC. :p hahaha
Strikeforce rules with Overeem and Fedor.
It disappoints me when some vocal people in cyberspace hide behind a pseudonym and make malicious and baseless attacks against athletes that have never failed a screen for banned substances. These keyboard toxicologists think that they can merely look at an athlete and "know" that so-and-so is a "juicer." There is a term for that. It's called "delusions of grandeur," and medication may help. (Dr. Johnny Benjamin)
Great article.
One thing that is confusing – it’s Meltzer taking in that quote, right? The way it is set up makes it sound like a Batista quote. But am I right thinking it’s Meltzer talking about Batista?
All the third persons are confusing.
Yes, it’s Dave
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Dave Batista?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 22, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn it!
Dave “Mother Fucking” Meltzer-king of the dirt sheets.
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
"Professional douchebag Spencer Pratt"
That’s just great stuff right there. Love having you on Bloody Elbow.
Mixed martial arts is a sport.
I’m going to save myself the trouble and leave it at that. Until then, can anyone guess what Shooter McGavin quote sums this up for me?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 22, 2010 2:37 PM EDT reply actions
Shooters not about to let his reign at the top be spoiled by some freak sideshow clown..........
that’s the only thing I could think of. I’d have to watch the movie again. Am I right?
You know what else would draw a crowd?
A guy with an arm growing out of his ass.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 22, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I saw a guy pull a horse shoe out of some one’s ass once. You should have seen the crowd that drew. Pulling an arm out might double attendance.
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
Damn it.
I really should have gotten that. I love that movie and love the Shooter McGavin character. Rec’d for quoting him on BE.
The three most important letters in mma are not the UFC
People seem to forget that Zuffa almost completely built themselves up on the back of the WWE. From their ppv model to the oversized personality running the company, their imitation of the WWe goes beyond flattery. But even more importantly, every step of growth they’ve experienced since Zuffa bought the company has a direct correlation with pro wrestling.
Let’s look at each phase of the UFC:
Here are the first seven after Zuffa purchased the company:
UFC 33 75,000
UFC 34 60,000
UFC 35 35,000
UFC 36 55,000
UFC 37 50,000
UFC 38 45,000
UFC 39 45,000
Average 52,143
Not very spectacular. Now look at their next 12:
UFC 40 150,000
UFC 41 60,000
UFC 42 35,000
UFC 43 49,000
UFC 44 94,000
UFC 45 40,000
UFC 46 77,000
UFC 47 104,000
UFC 48 110,000
UFC 49 80,000
UFC 50 40,000
UFC 51 105,000
Average 78,667
What happened? They brought back former Superfight Champ and Pro Wrestling star Ken Shamrock to take on Tito Ortiz. Not only did Ken instantly prove to be a draw (the two biggest UFC events, up to this date, of the Zuffa era where Shamrock headlined 40 and 48), but he also turned Tito Ortiz into a draw. It didn’t hurt that Tito based his public persona on Steve Austin.
Now let’s look at the next phase:
UFC 52 280,000
UFC 53 90,000
UFC 54 150,000
UFC 55 125,000
UFC 56 200,000
UFC 57 400,000
UFC 58 290,000
UFC 59 415,000
UFC 60 615,000
UFC 61 775,000
UFC 62 500,000
UFC 63 700,000
UFC 64 300,000
UFC 65 500,000
UFC 66 1,050,00
Average 426,000
Wow. Impressive growth. What happened? First off, the UFC got a TV deal with Spike. Secondly, they got a great lead-in with the WWE’s Raw program. Millions of pro wrestling fans were now introduced to the real thing, and they didn’t even have to change their channel. Thirdly, and most importantly, when the WWE jumped ship to the USA network, the UFC got to take over all of the WWE programming slots. They now had there own channel, one that wrestling fans were used to tuning into, and were fortunate to have several storylines already playing out: Tito vs Shamrock would follow the Ultimate Fighter Season 3, The Chuck Liddell vs Randy Couture vs Tito Ortiz dynamic, Tim Sylvia vs Andrei Arlovski (it was a big deal until the snorefest of the third fight killed interest in those two). It was the perfect ingredients to make the perfect storm.
In 2007, after the WWE-backed story lines played out, the UFC stagnated and actually saw a decline in ppv sales. This trend was reversed when a WWE superstar tried his hand at mma. Don’t think Brock had such a major impact? Between UFC 67-90, two of the four biggest payperview sellers had Brock on the main card. A mere coincidence that these were also the only two UFC events he appeared on at this time? I don’t think so. Just as it is not a coincidence that the monster UFC growth spurt would kick off with UFC 91, the same card Brock fought for and won the title.
Remember the three most important letters in mma are not UFC, but WWE.
by John Nash on Jun 22, 2010 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
This is worthy of its own post…
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 22, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Not much familiar with WWE
Could you elaborate a little more on this? Please.
“It didn’t hurt that Tito based his public persona on Steve Austin.”
I dont completely agree with you. What has Liddell vs Couture and Ortiz vs Shamrock got to do with the WWE? . The rivalry between these men was real, it might have had a similarity with pro wrestling, but then why don’t you say that any fight between men that don’t like each other owes its success to the WWE? Rashad vs Rampage? These aren’t WWE backed storylines, they are rivalries that have a vague similarity with pro wrestling, nothing more
If I’m reading it wrong please tell me because I agree with a lot of what you say
"Ten more seconds is all I ever ask. That's the good thing I learned about being KO'd twice. You don't see it coming -it's like death- you don't plan for it so don't wait for it. So many people are afraid of getting Ko'd that their hands stay home, but not me. I got to go out there and shoot the lights out and fall down" Jens Pulver
They were real rivalries, but they also were rivalries between oversized personas (a Huntington Beach bad boy, an All-American hard working wrestler, a mohawked knockout artist) at the moment the sport was being introduced to prowrestling fans on Spike and their WWE lead-in program. These fans were captivated by the storyline and you couldn’t ask for a better real-life story line to re-introduce fans to the UFC. Think were we would be if Vitor Belfort vs Renato Sobral was the LHW rivalry of the era?
7 event average, 12 event average, 15 event average
So you’re saying they’ve grown…
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Jun 22, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes and no. I don’t think I buy all the way into that even though I went from pro wrestling to ordering UFC 1 just because of interest in seeing what pro wrestling would be if it was real myself. There is a strong relation between the two but there is also a very strong separation there too. Zuffa put a lot of effort in changing how the sport looked from pro wrestling style of presentation to a style closer to boxing (why there is no fireworks or elaborate stage shows in the UFC anymore) and being recognized as a real sport has always been a major goal of theirs. Yea they tap the washed out pro wrestling fan demographic very hard but they really seem to be trying to distance themselves from pro wrestling too.
As far as Brock Lesnar goes, when he tried out for the Vikings he went beyond just being a former WWE star, he got a heck of a lot of press for that. Heck Brock was only actually in the WWE for two years (he had two years training in Ohio Valley), he was popular there but he was no Steve Austin or the Rock as far as WWE famous goes.
That's a good point about Brock.
He was the champion and main cat in WWE throughout 2003 and the WWE was in a serious period of decline at that time. He wasn’t selling a lot of pay per views. They booked him as a strong heel in the beginning and put him in squash matches galore but the reason he got big was because they had guys like Hulk Hogan and The Rock put him over.
He was made champ in a big period of transition. He originally won the title at Summerslam of 2002 and the WWE was already in trouble at that point. They took a big PR hit because of the World Wildlife Fund suing them for the WWF moniker and had to change it to the WWE. Stone Cold would wrestle his last match in 2003 and The Rock was leaving to head to Hollywood. Both things happened in the early going of ‘03 and they were depending on Lesnar to carry them through and become their next big breakout star. They even nicknamed him the Next Big Thing. The problem was he never really caught on and the audience that was so big a few years ago because of the Monday Night Wars had left. The buyrates on PPV were horrible compared to what they had been and ratings went way down. Lesnar was the star of the show but the show at the point wasn’t really that big anymore. I think a lot of the old fans of it, like myself, kept up with it by maybe occasionally reading up on what was going on and every now and again checking out Raw just to see what’s up with it now. Those fans needed somewhere to go and they found a home with the UFC once it went on Spike with The Ultimate Fighter.
The whole basis of loving wrestling as a kid was the show of it and believing it. Once we grew up enough we realized how fake it was and wondered what would happen if they were actually fighting each other for real. The UFC gives us that. Once we started learning the intricacies of it we stuck around and have come to love it.
In the end of the day, Strikeforce survives on a TV ratings business model while UFC survives off a PPV business model. Would it be cool for fans like us on BE if Strikeforce pushed prospects and only put on meaningful fights: sure, but the hardcore MMA fans will generally watch because it is free MMA and we are fans of the sport of MMA. As an MMA fan, and this applies to professional wrestling as well, these organizations really don’t need to please and cater to the hardcore fans because most of the hardcore fans will watch the product regardless. What that means is that these freakshow fights are going to get ratings, and as good as your Jake Shields’ or Tyron Woodley’s are, they don’t bring in ratings. Is it bad for the sport: honestly, I feel that it will get crapped on by fans like us for a couple weeks and then forgotten. The Herschel Walker experiment didn’t cause this irreversible damage to MMA or anything, and the same could be said about Kimbo Slice.
How ironic
This post is just above a fanpost showing washout James Toney’s training.
The UFC brought in Kimbo when it suited them. Everyone does the freakshow thing to attract audiences. The Batista fight has not been confirmed. Its unfair to single out Strikeforce when everyone else is doing the same thing.
99.99 percent of the world likes freak shows
50 percent actually admit it
Root for the home team jack ass
by KING FEDOR on Jun 22, 2010 4:46 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
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