What Do David Loiseau, Fedor Emelianenko, and Tim Sylvia's All-Time Dumbest Quote Have in Common?
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 22, 2010 12:41 PM EDT
in MMA News
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Print"90% of the fight game is half mental"-Tim Sylvia
Sylvia was mocked when he said that, but like many a Yogi Berra style malapropism, there is some truth in Sylvia's mathematically challenged statement. MMA is ultimately a mental game.
And as we've quite possibly seen from Tim Sylvia's career post-Fedor, it's possible for a fighter to be broken in the cage or ring and emerge as a shadow of himself. Doubt me? Watch the video below from Riddum.com where Loiseau's coach Firas Zahabi and teammate Patrick Cote discuss the vicious case of cage anxiety Loiseau developed after losing to Rich Franklin at UFC 58.
The haters will object that this is merely Loiseau's team making excuses for a long series of poor performances. But let's apply Occam's Razor. Before he faced Franklin for the UFC middleweight title at UFC 58 in 2006 he was 14-4 (4-1 UFC) and coming off a five fight win streak. Since then he's 5-5 (0-3 UFC).
But those of us with more worldly experience and understanding of human nature know that sometimes things happen to a person that they never recover from. A five round drubbing that leaves both eyes swollen so they look like the Fantastic Four's Thing, is just the sort of traumatic event that can have enormous repercussions.
The reality is that competing in any athletic endeavor at a high level requires enormous mental fortitude. The hundreds of hours of training between fights require a motivated athlete who is able to get up day after day and fully commit himself to an incredibly tedious and difficult training, conditioning, and nutritional regimen.
And then when the training is done, the athlete must perform at his best in the cage or ring. Any one who's ever had a job or hobby that required top performance in public knows that its not easy. It requires great powers of concentration and focus to dismiss all the distractions and perform at top ability when crunch time comes.
The annals of MMA are filled with stories of fighters who are the best athletes in their training camps but can't match that performance level in the cage. Joe Riggs is infamous in this regard. And that's just in an easy or one-sided match -- when fighting at the championship levels it requires grit like we saw from Carlos Condit at UFC 115 when he came back to finish Rory MacDonald in the third round after dropping the first two to the young phenom. That takes enormous mental fortitude.
And what does this have to do with Fedor? Find out in the full entry.
Well, part of his aura as the greatest MMA fighter of all time is the way he utterly terrifies opponents. As Brett Rogers said before his fight with Fedor last fall, per MMA Fighting:
"I look into his eyes and I see nothing," he said. "I don't see if he's serious. I don't see if he's trying to be funny. I can't sense anything from him. A lot of people say, 'Don't pay attention to his demeanor because it will psyche you out.' It's true. I feel that."
And as we've seen from the post-Fedor performances of Brett Rogers, Andrei Arlovski and Tim Sylvia, fighters tend to fall off the table after they've fought him.
It's got to be an incredibly intense psychological experience to be chosen to face the best heavyweight in the world, fall short in brutal fashion and then have to pick up the pieces. One day you think that you just might have a chance to knock him off his pedestal, the next day you know you didn't and you never will. Not only that, but if you're like Sylvia, Arlovski and Rogers you found yourself coming to after being choked or knocked out and if you watched the fight later, realized just how badly you were drubbed.
This is why I come down so hard on people who try to denigrate a fighter's wins based on the subsequent performance of their opponents. All we have to go by is how well regarded they were at the time of the fight. So much can change in a fighter's life -- injuries, accidents, mental troubles, loss of motivation, business problems, drug problems, etc etc etc -- that it's just not valid to draw conclusions based on future performance.
This is especially true with a devastating fighter like Fedor. Fedor Emelianenko doesn't just beat fighters, he breaks them.
Fabricio Werdum has picked himself up off the mat after being KTFO'd by Junior Dos Santos and given the boot by the UFC. His gritty performance against Antonio Silva showed he's still got the heart of a warrior. We'll see what he's made of this Saturday. And after that we'll really see what he's made of.
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That’s a great point that a lot of people disregard when trying to evaluate how much a win “means”. The Franklin/Loiseau fight is a great example – Franklin is often shit on for not winning “big” fights, but at the time of that fight, Loiseau was thought of as having the potential to become one of the best in the sport. From today’s perspective, Franklin beating him doesn’t mean much, but at the time the way he dominated Loiseau was really eye opening.
Like you said, the subsequent performances by Rogers, Arlovski and Sylvia shouldn’t take away from what they were at the time they fought Fedor.
Outta Big Timmy, AA, and Rogers I’d have to say that the only one that caught an all out but kickin was Big Timmy. IMO I had AA and Rogers both winning utill they got put to sleep.
which may be even more psychologically devastating
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 22, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
This^
Knowing you were doing your best and maybe winning before getting beaten by a guy who has the same emotional output in the cage as he does waiting for a bus has to fuck your head.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Imo, there is no better example of this than Crocop post Fedor. That was the biggest HW fight MMA had had to that point and Crocop was never the same after losing. Fedor didn’t just beat him, he out kickboxed him. Crocop has never been the world beater he was prior to the Fedor beating him and now it looks like he’s going into early retirement because he doesn’t have the will to train like he used to. That’s pretty telling considering if he’d beaten Fedor I can’t imagine this would have been the direction his career took.
by rask4p on Jun 22, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The open weight GP, realistically the HWs have a huge advantage there. He then came to the UFC and looked like a shell. I’m not saying it was a walk in the GP, but I’ve personally never seen the old fire since he was beaten by Fedor.
I think the Gonzaga decapitation had some to do with it. I just think Cro Cop thought he was going to walk through him.
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
man
when gonzaga screamed at the camera “a puta mae que pario” i was screaming right along side him. I just couldn’t believe it.
“I just can’t believe it, I JUST CAN’T BELIEVE IT, YOU WHORE!”
-Frank from always sunny when he finds out dennis and dee aren’t his kids
by Body Triangle on Jun 22, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn’t sound so good for Todd Duffee then.
by chrisbboy82 on Jun 22, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m still stunned how anyone can think Rogers was winning that fight prior to Fedor knocking him out
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Rogers definitely lasted longer and gave him a tougher fight than anyone was expecting, but to say he was winning the fight is crazy. He landed one jab and was able to reverse Fedor and land a dew GnP shots the first round and that was it. Fedor landed shots and threw Rogers to the ground, Fedor then rocked Rogers later in the 1st rd and got a single leg td, and went for a kimura, got reversed and then went for an armbar. Then he got back on top of Rogers and went for a side choke and stayed on top. Fedor easily did more in that round
It’s funny to me that because Fedor is so good and has such an aura that anytime someone has the slightest bit of offense against him, they are suddenly winning
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
I agree with you.
I’m not saying that Rogers was winning at any point…it’s just that most people on here were expecting Fedor to clown the full time tire changer that Strikeforce put in front of him and it didn’t exactly work out like that.
Also, from what I remember of the fight, the announcers were really selling the offense that Rodgers got in on Fedor. Announcing like that always seems to alter people’s perception of the fight in question.
He doesn't usually.
Fedor doesn’t dominate bell to bell like GSP or Mayweather. He just doesn’t. The thing he does do is win, no matter what. He took the Randleplex, he was outboxed and constantly forced to reset against Arlovski, Rogers kept him off balance by being physically imposing and bloodies him up early, Fujita wobbled him pretty hard, Cro Cop landed his straight left pretty reliably and busted him up… but what sets Fedor apart is that he’s a winner. No matter what happens during a fight, he wins, plain and simple.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
True.
I don’t want to make a big issue of it but, to me at least, there is a world of difference between the fighting abilities of Arlovski (even though Rodgers beat him), Randleman and Cro Cop and Brett Rodgers. I expected the former three to be able to work their offense to varying degrees. I did not expect Rodgers to.
I suppose that is what makes MMA great, though. It’s an ‘any given day’ type of competition.
If he is really having panic attacks now...
then he is screwed. I have been having them for 10 years. There is no cure. Once you get them, you will have them your entire life. You can take strong psychotropics for them but they will severely hamper your physical performance. Very sorry to hear this.
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
This is the wrong atitude but good luck. Panic attacks do not have to be a life long problem.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
I have tried dozens of medicinal combinations and dozens of shrinks over the last 10 years with no success. The best med so far has been a combo of Effexor and xanax but I couldnt physically compete on them.
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
Have you ever tried medicinal marijuana? Seems to do wonders for Nick Diaz.
"If your going to come on then come on!" - Harold Howard
I actually have. They seem to cause me to have more panic attacks. I cannot understand how they could actually help him. Anything that would make you paranoid, would cause you to have an attack. Makes no sense.
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
I’ve been dealing with anxiety and crippling attacks for a while. I’d actually suggest reading Tony Robbins and trying his methods. I couldn’t find a solution before I just took charge of things, and its a miraculous turnaround. I still have anxiety, but i’m able to control myself and my attacks and my life has been much, much better in that regard. I was even able to approach someone on the train that i’ve had a crush on for about a year, force myself to break through the panic attack, and ask her out. We’ve been dating for a month now. pretty awesome. don’t overlook something simple like that, its more behavioral techniques than therapy.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jun 22, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Congrats on your success! I have pretty much resigned to the fact that they are not going away after 10 years and just deal with it. My family and friends all know the deal and handle it well. Xanax is my best friend!
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
That's cognitive-behavioral therapy.
The reordering of thought patterns to avert distress (panic attacks, OCD, etc). It’s much more effective that traditional psychotherapy and usually much faster.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 22, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, its amazingly effective- putting yourself in your most successful state and such- its worked in the previous regard, as well as i’ve had some of my best lifts in the gym using the same processes.
Robbins rights about how traditional therapy usually makes a person re-live hard events, and how thats sometimes even MORE damaging. I agree.
And from the first book I also gained insight into exactly what Diego is doing with the whole “yes” thing. i actually used that tactic to approach my girlfriend, and i’ll never make fun of it again
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jun 22, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
The other major problem with trad. psychotherapy is how easy it is to create false memories.
I get the power of positive thinking, but I’ve never been convinced of its efficacy. I mean, Diego did the “yus” routine for a long while, but BJ’s boxing proved stronger. I’m too much a fatalist for that attitude.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 22, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
haha i believe there’s obviously a limit to its success, as evidenced by diego vs. bj. I wouldn’t try a 500lb deadlift without warming up relying on positive thinking, but i think that the point is you can’t perform your best unless you visualize that performance and help your body relive similar times that you’ve peaked.
Diego’s performance against BJ definitely wasn’t fantastic, but you have to credit his heart and determination, both of which i’d attribute to positive thinking- that you aren’t down until you are DOWN. or have a goat vagina opened on your forehead.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on Jun 22, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t deny the power of the mind (I’m a philosophy student, for unemployment’s sake), it’s just I view so much as out of our control, it dampens my enthusiasm for it.
Of course, if it works for you, then tell me to fuck off. You did get the girl, after all…
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 22, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey sorry to hear of your prevaling condition. Regarding Marijuana, its effects are dependent on the individual, as for some people it can lead to increases in anxiety, paranoia, and pain, although in a majority of people it will lead to decreases in anxiety, paranoia and pain. It really is the chemical imbalances in the brain that exist prior to taking a drug that has the most affect on the responses that occur to an individual.
Have you tried any non-medicinal therapy to deal with your anxiety? I would assume so as you have stated to be dealing with it for a long period of time. but you never know. Therapy outside of medication can help in a number of cases to the same level as medications when compared in placebo experiments.
I've had anxiety for a long time too...
It definately is one of the worst feelings In the world. I’ve tried Paxil, but I don’t think it helped at all. I conquer my attacks by slowing down my breathing to long deep breaths. This might make you laugh but if I encounter a bad episode I call my mom and have her talk me through it. Normally I don’t want to talk to anyone but for some reason she can help me through it. Just reading that some of you guys have the exact same symptoms is kind of comforting.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Jun 22, 2010 3:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought Diaz took it for ADD
I never understood the paranoia aspect of Mary Jane. I never had that problem. I was also more than comfortable being out in public and doing everyday thing while under the influence. Those days are long past, but I never felt paranoid.
You say
Those days are long past", but as I go down the page I see "I like poop jokes, so I rec’d all the above comments… "
As much as I want to, I’m not sure I believe you. ;)
"As for the paranoia, aren’t the laws in Canada a little more relaxed than its neighbor? I know some provinces have some nice laws. That might have a little to do with that paranoia.
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
dude poop jokes does not equal immaturity
i mean…well it does, but if poop aint funny, then i dont know what is.
by Body Triangle on Jun 22, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Fart jokes are fine
But when you start talking about feces you’ve crossed the line.
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
by DayGeaux on Jun 22, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Canada is more laxed...
You can get caugh with up to 14 grms of weed and not get charged / arrested or anything… They just take it away…
That’s about what I thought the law was. I was just unaware they took it away.
I get more rec's then a Toyota!
It takes enormous amounts of cognitive-behavioral therapy to mitigate them. It took me several years to get mine to a manageable level.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 22, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I have been through years of cognitive-behavioral therapy… Didn’t work for me. Glad they did for you though.
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
Moderately – they still happen, but I can talk myself out of them if I’m calm enough. Occasionally I still go ballistic, to the horror of anyone around me.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 22, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I can talk myself out of them to a certain point. Once my palms get really sweaty and I start counting my heartrate, it’s over. Cannot stop it at that point.
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
Fuck, that’s rough. Hopefully you’ll find something that lessens the surge.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 22, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Psychiatry dissagrees with your non-scientific views on panic attacks.
Generally, anxiety dissorders can be treated (read reduced, taught to cope with etc.) but not cured. Drugs are the stable treatment and cognitive restructuring can also work. But as with many mental ailments, there is an electrical pathway modification in the breain that will not be talked out of a person or drugged out of him. It’s the same reason why addicts cannot go back become light users of the substance.
http://www.cmha.ca/bins/content_page.asp?cid=3-94
I want to congradulate Kid Nate on an excellent, well written article that is obviously spearheading alot of thoughtful responses. And thanks for introducing me to Occam’s (Ockham’s) razzor. I’m a little smarter for that today.
Truth
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
"A good word that I got from the Mike Tyson Documentary... I'm going to absolutley decimate this motherf**ker, I haven't been in the dictionary to see what it actually means but I'm guessing it's going to be something in the way of just killing a motherf**ker." -Paul Daley (on the definition of Decimate)
by WeaponElDeem on Jun 22, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I developed panic attacks myself. I’m not sure why. They are so f*cking awful. By far the worst feeling ever. I can only imagine what kind of panic attack you may have before a fight in front of a huge crowd.
I’m trying to get over them still, myself. It’s hard to describe them, for me. I can’t pinpoint how it feels exactly…it’s just terrible.
oh and I come to find out some other family members have them as well. So it’s strange. Never considered myself a very stressed out person.
Yeah, they run in my family too. They are terrible. I think that I am dying FOR SURE during each one. I tell my family that I love them and give goodbyes like I am on my death bed. Worst feeling in the world…
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate... - Charlie to Mac
IF YOU CANNOT WRESTLE, FIND ANOTHER PROFESSION...
sounds pretty much identical to my feeling. First few times it literally felt like I was dying or something and I couldn’t stop it. Now I know what the feeling is, it’s still the worst feeling ever, but at least I know what is happening even if it is happening for no reason.
The worst is when you start putting pressure on yourself to relax, which just makes everything worse.
The only way out is through some deep, zen letting-go action, where you say “It’s ok I’m nervous. I’m not gonna fight it. This is the way it’s gonna be.” If you let go of your fear, the fear of loss, the fear of death, of humiliation, of injury … if you accept that all things end, all things fall apart, that pain, embarrassment and anxiety are a part of life, and one day you will fail or fuck up or eventually die … if you just let go of all of that, you begin to break that grip that panic and fear has on you.
by judonerd on Jun 22, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A serious investigation of Zen has benefited my life greatly.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jun 22, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Regarding Anxiety and Panic....
…I’ve had anxiety issues w/ panic most of my life. It’s cool reading the posts from others here about the issue as well. What I have discovered on my own journey through this(& still going)is that there is no cure all—everyone responds differently to various treament and coping methods. I think whatever allows you to effectively manage it, is fine, granted it’s not immoral. I still have certain issues I’m not over yet. As it relates to fighting, anxiety is not an issue once your in the cage or ring, it’s prior to the fight that makes it difficult. My one fight in the cage I was unable to sleep for 36 hours prior and gassed bigtime after the 1st round. But there was no anxiety in the cage only prior.
David’s team was actually giving clear cut reasons as to why he SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FIGHTING IN THE FIRST PLACE.
How can someone in good conscience send a friend into an MMA fight when he clearly isn’t ready from a mental standpoint?
It shouldn’t always be the fighter’s choice, because the spirit that drives a man to get into a cage and fight can be incredibly self-destructive. We don’t see it much now, but fast-forward 10 years and we’re going to see a lot of physically, mentally, and financially broken ex-fighters.
David’s training partners should not be willingly participating in his fights and training camps if they know he’s not ready.
If they have to kick him out, then so be it. It might be the best thing for him. If he can’t get his head straight, he must retire. And if his best friends don’t know that, then shame on them for being a part of his destruction.
I think Tim was trying to say 90% of the fight game is 45% mental. Maybe not.
Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is. I get more stunts and props than Bruce Willis- Guru
y'all do realize
that its a 50-year old quotation from Yogi Berra, the baseball player/manager, right?
I know you don’t, I’m just sayin.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Jun 22, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah didn't he say that in the article?
“If you see a fork in the road, take it "
-Tim Sylvia
“It’s always in the last place you look for it!”
-Paulto Thiago
“For the last time, no, I don’t want your picnic basket”
-Yogi Berra
by Body Triangle on Jun 22, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s what happened to Mirko. Once he figured out he would never beat Fedor and never be number 1 he was just done. He was never the same cro cop. It was sad what happened to Rogers. He was a big guy who liked to throw. In the overeem fight he looked timid.
I think Mirko’s arrogance was the problem. He had the mental toughness to fight, but he didn’t think cage fighting would be any different than in a ring and he refused to change.
http://www.instrength.com
He got visibly frustrated walking down Sanchez. He kept trying to trap him in the corners, but they’re easier to escape in an octagon. He probably was also peeved that he, OWGP winner, couldn’t beat a UFC sacrificial lamb.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jun 22, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The guy had won 4 fights in a row going into that though, including wins over Barnett and Wandy. I don’t think his was broken by anyone mentally at that point.
http://www.instrength.com
If recall wandy was kind of ill and mirko was much bigger than him and he had already won against barnett. Either of those things could prop a guy up.
On the other hand I may have been a bit excessive in stating how broken he was
No, I’m with you. Don’t forget how much he hated Wanderlei too. That stoked him up for 2006.
by Tim the Enchanter on Jun 22, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Sylvia was mocked when he said that, but like many a Yogi Berra style malapropism, there is some truth in Sylvia’s mathimatically challenged statement.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 22, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions
Can the same be said about Chuck Liddell?
After back-to-back losses to Rampage and Jardine his fight career has been one of sub-par performances.
Or is it age?
Semper Fi
I think the Rashad loss is what did him in.
Jardine’s style gave Chuck fits and he may have taken him lightly, so I’ll give him a pass on that one. He followed it up with a very solid win over Wandy. However, ever since the Evans fight, Chuck’s chin has disappeared. His brain is basically conditioned to shut down whenever he gets hit flush, whereas before he was once known to take punches and keep on keeping on. I’d argue that Chuck was controlling every fight post Jardine before getting hit flush (with successively weaker punches each bout) and going out.
"The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world..."
..the Rashad loss to this day is the nastiest KO I have seen…just absolutely brutal. It would not suprise me if that shot did not have life long repercussions for Chuck.
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
"A good word that I got from the Mike Tyson Documentary... I'm going to absolutley decimate this motherf**ker, I haven't been in the dictionary to see what it actually means but I'm guessing it's going to be something in the way of just killing a motherf**ker." -Paul Daley (on the definition of Decimate)
by WeaponElDeem on Jun 22, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
with Chuck it seems to be physical
the “chin” weakens after repeated KO blows so that it becomes easier and easier to knock him out. Wandy is suspected of suffering from the same malady
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Sounds kinda like Sokoudjou . The guy looks great sparring, but can never put it together in a real fight.
Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is. I get more stunts and props than Bruce Willis- Guru
could well be
although I might nominate Luis Cane for that role. He really busted up Sokoudjou
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I think it was Silva
…I like this game, I think we can go on all day with Sokoudju losses.
"The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world..."
I don't think it's an outrageous statement
If the skill level is roughly equal, the mental aspect will probably be the difference. In general, at least in organizations such as UFC, they try to pit fighters of roughly the same skill level against each other. Thus, the outcome of the fight will be determined in large part by who brought the better mental state in to training camp and the day of the fight
Diego Sanchez
I’m afraid this may have happened to him. Too early to tell yet, but my goodness… if BJ didn’t break him he’s a stronger man than we give him credit for.
by ruckus on Jun 22, 2010 1:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
yeah
B.J. Penn really did a number on the guy. Just imagine the difference in his mental state now vs 2007 when he was still undefeated and was quoted saying “it’s my destiny to retire undefeated”.
He’s not the man he once was.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
This is an understandable position given public info
but is far from the whole story.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I’m betting on Brock being mentally “broken” after his illness/surgery. I think he’s doubting himself, and I’m thinking it will result in hesitancy. Wishful thinking, perhaps, since my money is already on Carwin.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Jun 22, 2010 1:16 PM EDT reply actions
Nah. What’s he doubting, his ability to poop safely?
by judonerd on Jun 22, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
He was only pooping at 60% before…imagine what he can do at 100%!
by John Lamb on Jun 22, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
At first glance
I thougt it was a hippo manatee orgy. Looks like Dave England is still working.
by Bob Boblaw on Jun 22, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
"Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? You think that’s air you’re breathing now?
I will go far as saying the fight game is 99.99% mental.
"If your going to come on then come on!" - Harold Howard
by Bandaka on Jun 22, 2010 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Why isn’t Stephen Hawking out there kicking ass then?
by judonerd on Jun 22, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Loiseau is the best example.
He can’t seem to perform on the big stage anymore. This happens to tons of people in many regards. I used to skate as a teen, until I mashed my knee up pretty bad. Couldn’t ride fearless after that. That’s not anywhere near the fear of getting smashed by an opponent.
"50% of this sport is 90% mental" - Tim Sylvia
It's always interesting when a fighter ends up losing in a devastating or embarassing fashion.
Because they either a) improve, or b) break. You see guys like GSP who lost in an incredibly embarassing fashion, with everyone questioning his mental fortitude. You don’t see too many people question GSP’s mind anymore. I’d wager he’s one of the strongest out there when it comes to mental fortitude. Or you see guys like Condit, who are always in a fight. No matter how beat down Condit gets, he always battles back, which is what I love about Condit. There’s no giving up with that guy. When you see other fighters literally wilt in the cage between rounds, you see fighters like Condit just get stronger and more determined.
As for Fedor, he’s the type of fighter that breaks people. Plain and simple. We can, and have, debated all day as to whether Fedor is the GOAT in MMA, or how he’d do in the UFC, etc. But the thing that, to me, is crystal clear, is the fact that he destroys people to the point of breaking them. Fighters are changed after they face him.
Pud, excellent point. And I’d say that GSP has changed; notice how much differently he fights now. He’s afraid to deal with a striker standing, in the same way that Fedor dealt with Rogers, Arlovski and Cro-Cop, because he knows he can lose. That’s what leads to “stay in the guard!”
by Tim the Enchanter on Jun 22, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what leads to "stay in the guard!" ?????
GSP passes guard constantly. No such terminology should be thrown at him
His coaches have yelled that at him during fights.
Jackson and Marc Laimon had a long debate on a radio show once about that strategy.
I don’t think Tim Sylvia is mentally broken as much as he has just realized that the UFC isn’t going to take him back and no one else will pay him that big money. Tim still fights like Tim, he just can’t get the big fights anymore and it seems like he has accepted that and is looking to move on to something else. Tim also seems to of had some confidence issues that go back way before the Fedor fight too.
Now I can believe it with David Loiseau, it wasn’t that long ago that people thought he was going to run over the middleweight division the same way GSP has run over the welterweight. Since Franklin beat him something has happened because he’s just not the same at all. Arlovski may also fall into the same boat but with him I think it would of been the combination of Fedor and Brett Rogers back to back that got him, he just doesn’t seem to have the same aggession in the cage anymore.
by who me on Jun 22, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I think the UFC would have taken him back if he’d beaten Fedor. Tim had never lost like that. He’d been ground down, sure, but his losses had been like the broken arm versus Mir. To just get your ass brutally kicked like that and realize that you would always be second tier – man, that’s tough.
by Tim the Enchanter on Jun 22, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That was one of the most brutal 40 second beatings a fighter has ever taken. I can’t believe he wasn’t completely out before the sub!
To be honest I think that beating Fedor and going back to the UFC to get a bigger contract was Tim’s plan, it just wasn’t all that well thought out and didn’t work. Sylvia was grouching because Brock Lesnar made more money than he did, well if he could of beat Fedor then he knew Dana would of paid big to get him back. You would have to imagine that it would be hard on a guy to know that after the Fedor loss no one wanted to sign him (well except Monte Cox), even Affliction wasn’t really wanting to book him again. Tim’s always had a rough road with hardcore fans but imagine what it would be like to be a running joke for the fight promoters too? Even if Tim Sylvia came back from the loss a better fighter than he ever was before it wouldn’t matter because the bigwigs in the sport won’t give him the time of day.
quick question
what does KTFO’d mean? i know KTFO= knocked the fuc* out, but what does the (‘d) mean or add to KTFO? knocked the fuc* outted? i dont get it… how does one get KTFO’d?? not tring to be a smart a$$ just wondering
$MOOTH MF'n MYKE BIATCH
Well, K’dTFO looks dumb as hell, so we just roll with it.
"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi
by Kaleb Kelchner on Jun 22, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I pronounce it mentally as knockED the fuck out
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
The problem with saying someone is "mentally broken" by a loss to Fedor
is it can neither be proved nor disproved.
I think you should evaluate the quality of Fedor’s opponents by looking at what they did before and after, but emphasize the “before” because that’s the only thing that could have been known at the time the fight was made.
-Arlovski came into that fight on a win-streak against decent competition, but struggled with inconsistency through his career.
-Sylvia was already starting to suck.
-Rogers was completely unproven.
At the time of fighting Sylvia and Arlovski, there were not really much better people for Fedor to fight in the UFC (I think – correct me if I’m wrong – I’m thinking Couture, Big Nog, Frank Mir – none of which would have been ranked much higher than those two, although they were probably better).
But for Rogers, and Werdum, there is really no argument to be made there – he was not fighting the best in the world.
Of course, after fighting Cro Cop in 2006 (?) Fedor had many other quesetionable fights, not including the three people he supposedly “mentally broke”.
Anyway, my $0.02.
Well, he was still under contract to Pride. People piss on Mark Hunt, but at least the guy was a K-1 Grand Prix champion. It’s the same thing today; if you don’t want to sign the rest of your career over to Dana White, there’s only so many people you can fight. And he’s signed up to face all of them, assuming he goes on to face Overeem.
by Tim the Enchanter on Jun 22, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Fedor is already going down as one of the all time greats – but his claim to be the GOAT will depend on what happens (or doesn’t happen) with Overeem.
The thing about Fedor is that you can miss the forest for the trees. It’s not that he only fights tomato cans – Arlovski, Sylva and Rogers were not “cans” – neither is Werdum. He is not in there fighting Hong Man Choi ever time.
It’s that he has, throughout his entire career, not consistently fought the absolute best – even outside of the UFC. Some people are not cans, but are clearly not the best either.
Compare this to say the GSP/Hardy fight. Was Dan Hardy a huge underdog? Sure. But at the time the fight was made, it was impossible to think of a better fight that could be made that GSP hadn’t already fought. Hardy was like 12-1 in his last 13 fights. You could argue someone else was a better matchup, but Hardy was pretty much it.
Whether someone is the GOAT involves a comparison of eras and weight classes and is inherently subjective and further depends upon what the qualifications are for being the GOAT. I think Fedor is certainly a strong candidate – I just wouldn’t put too much emphasis on the “perfect record.”
The difference between the GSP loss and Fedor
…is that GSP fought tentative and got hit with a decent shot. The thing that breaks you – or not – is fighting a guy where you get so badly ass-kicked that you question whether you can ever get to that level. You know you performed to your best, and you still couldn’t win.
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