Ben Askren Dazzles Against Dan Hornbuckle at Bellator XXII
by Nate Wilcox on Jun 17, 2010 10:28 PM EDT
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Ben Askren entered MMA as one of the most highly touted prospects in years. An NCAA division I national champion and 2008 Olympian, mma bloggers like Bloody Elbow's own Luke Thomas were talking about Askren long before he entered MMA.
Although he'd gone 3-0 since entering MMA in early 2009, many remained skeptical of Askren as he seemed to show almost no striking acumen.
Tonight his utterly dominating win over the proven veteran and rising contender Dan Hornbuckle (21-3) showed that Ben Askren is indeed something special in MMA. Askren took Hornbuckle down early and often. Hornbuckle was a game opponent and fired off sub attempts and reversals throughout the fight. But Askren proved just as adept in the scramble as shooting for an ankle.
Even when he seriously threatened Askren with a kimura, Hornbuckle would find the scenario ending with Askren once again on top and moving for dominant position. Askren ran through an array of dominant positions in the fight, from side control to mount to back mount and even head scissors at one point.
And those take downs! My god, Ben Askren seemed to be made of Dr Seuss' Oobleck as he clung to Hornbuckle's ankle, eating punches to the head and refusing to let go of the take down attempt. But Askren held on, rode out the storm and followed up with a beautiful leg trip take down that put Hornbuckle down for the first of many times in the fight.
Askren will move on to face Bellator welterweight champ, the undefeated Lymon Good. Good hits very hard from top position and is likely a better wrestler than Hornbuckle, but we'll see how he fares against Askren. He'll likely be much harder for Askren to put down than Hornbuckle was, but he'll likely end up on his back. Without Hornbuckle's formidable guard game, Good will likely be even easier prey for the fast rising Ben Askren. That is, unless Good can catch Askren coming in with a hard punch. Askren takes risks shooting in for unconventional take downs and Good is the kind of fighter who can hurt a man with a punch. It will be a fight to look forward to.
Askren has a huge upside as a martial artist. As I wrote earlier today, he epitomizes the type of the wrestler/grappler. Well known exponents of the style include #3 middleweight and #10 welterweight in the world in the USAT/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings Jake Shields, the former UFC #1 contender Renato "Babalu" Sobral, and Matt Hughes, the best welterweight in the history of the sport.
Tonight Askren showed he can more than handle a dangerous striker/grappler. Against Good he'll get to show how his wrestling/grappling hybrid works against a wrestler/striker who can implement a Chuck Liddell style sprawl and brawl game. Good will be looking to win on the feet or via ground and pound. Askren will be looking to get on top, control position and work for a submission. Should be a great fight.
I'll predict Askren to win. The big question from that is how long will he want to preside over Bellator before moving on up, and will he be able to escape the Bellator championship clause to get to the UFC?
-- video via purefight.org
More BE coverage of Bellator XXII
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I imagine that we will see Askren in the UFC in about a year in a half. I would love to see Askren being introduced to the UFC with a fight against Kim Dong-hyun.
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokojanuse Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
that would be a very compelling fight
i’d love to see if Stun Gun could get off any throws on Askren. If he prepared with the right judo coach, i doubt it.
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by Nate Wilcox on Jun 17, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Stun Gun would at least get a couple of cool trips in there, as would Askren. Stylistically, it’s a match that in my mind could be a classic. Stun Gun has some of the most beautiful ground and pound I’ve ever seen (his elbows are beyond vicious), but I’m sure Askren will have some great scrambles to get out of those situations. Stun Gun’s striking is also really underrated, and it would be interesting to see if he could block Askren’s great takedowns. Both guys also have very entertaining ways of passing the guard. If this would happen in 2012, whoever would win the fight would be a clear contender for the title.
Also, now that you mentioned it, if a Kim-Askren fight would motivate Askren to train judo, than that it’s even more of a positive for his bright career.
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokojanuse Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
by RagingNoodles on Jun 17, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I see absolutely no reason for Askren to train Judo personally. The odds of him getting stuck in straight-posture clinches are slim to none, as he doesn’t bother standing up to strike or throw knees or anything like that.
His ground game was so frigging weird that Hornbuckle honestly looked anytime he actually got an advantageous position. Askren should just keep doing what he is doing and keep learning subs and GnP.
by judonerd on Jun 18, 2010 1:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I need to pat myself on the back for calling this fight. [pat, pat] Akren UD by positional dominance. Askren’s BJJ is but will no longer be so consistently undervalued.
I also am going to pat myself on the back for saying that HB had no chance of stopping Askren’s take downs. [pat, pat]
by The Darkness on Jun 17, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Finally, I will predict that Lyman Good has no chance at all at keeping this fight standing (ie, he has for all intents and purposes no chance of successfully implementing a sprawl and brawl strategy) and cannot stop Askren from advancing at will. Askren by UD.
by The Darkness on Jun 17, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Predicting Askren wasn't bad.
Predicting that an Olympic wrestler would take down a guy who is noted for fighting off of his back isn’t.
"Sometimes hype just ain't enough." - Jens Pulver on his win over BJ Penn
by lowellthehammer on Jun 17, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
isn’t that impressive is what I meant to say.
"Sometimes hype just ain't enough." - Jens Pulver on his win over BJ Penn
by lowellthehammer on Jun 17, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right but people were still saying that he wasn’t going to take HB down at will so I felt like boosting my self-esteem with the back pat.
by The Darkness on Jun 17, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
disagree
I also called askren to win and most people said no way! They said Hornbuclke would win and askren was no good. Now we see what true top notch young wrestlers can do. I cant wait for his next fight. I picked him in this one and I will in the next one.
by Darren Watkins on Jun 18, 2010 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I am gonna give myself a pat on the back too...
Everybody laughed at me and argued when I said it would look like King Mo vs Mousasi.
I didn’t. And it didn’t look like King Mo v Mousasi. It was a far, far more dominating performance by Askren. Askren’s positional BJJ is world class.
by The Darkness on Jun 17, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Mo did a lot more damage on the ground
also took a lot more damage on the ground.
likewise he landed more on the feet, and got hit more on the feet.
true that Askren dominated a lot more, but Mo has a very different approach to the game. They both won.
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by Nate Wilcox on Jun 17, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I just meant it in
we would see a wrestler who is a relative noob completely nullify the offence of a dangerous opponent. D.H. has next to no TD defense. I am not surprised Askren took him down at will.
I think Askren’s win had very little to do with the takedowns and very LOT to do with his BJJ defense and amazing ability to flow faster than damn near anyone Ive seen in recent memory. Hornbuckle threatened about a thousand subs but Askren was always moving in the exact direction to escape, and always three moves ahead of the handler.
Hornbuckle is comfortable getting taken down for a reason, but he was simply outclassed on the mat by this guy.
by judonerd on Jun 18, 2010 1:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Askren could very well be the best wrestler in MMA today.
if not then one of the best…Guy like King Mo and Askren will go far with their wrestling alone
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Jun 17, 2010 10:09 PM EDT reply actions
Askren
has already supplemented his game with submission grappling/jiu jitsu so you can’t say he’s relying on “wrestling alone”.
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by Nate Wilcox on Jun 17, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If he can develop some striking and the ability to fluidly transition from one discipline to another he could be almost GSP-esque.
i don't see that happening
he’ll be great at wrestling and potentially very good at jiu jitsu but i doubt he’ll ever be much of a striker. standing or on the ground.
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by Nate Wilcox on Jun 17, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If he can add anything close to elite BBJ he will be a force.
The problem a lot of BJJ guys have is taking down tough wrestlers… Askren has the wrestling to easily get most fighters onto the ground.
He doesnt need a stand up game
I know that askren is knew but i am pretty sure he is a better wrestler than GSP right now. GSP has better stand up. I dont know if GSP could stop Askren from taking him down. Another guy to watch out for is Johny Hendricks. I think he will be the ufc champ in the next 2 years.
by Darren Watkins on Jun 18, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with the statement about Askren’s wrestling. JH hasn’t taken to BJJ like Askren has, at least in the submission grappling videos I’ve watched of his. If JH can up his BJJ / ground control / submission defense he’d have an outside shot at winning the title within the next few years (and he’d have a good to decent shot at winning if GSP went to MW).
by The Darkness on Jun 18, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Hendricks
has gone more the sprawl and brawl mixed with takedowns route, he hasn’t really focused on grappling.
He’s really worked hard on his striking, maybe he’s trying to be Chuck Liddell instead of Matt Hughes.
Those takedowns were sick.
I kept on thinking that Hornbuckle had defended the TD because Askren would only have a heel, or a toe, then a half-second later Hornbuckle would be on his back. It was amazing to watch.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
Here's something I've been wandering about:
King Mo made some waves a couple months back when he said that “scramblers” from collegiate wrestling aren’t as well suited for MMA as “technical” freestyle wrestlers like himself and Cormier.
Is Askren gonna prove him wrong? User Darren Watkins suggested that scholastic wrestlers – and especially “funky” ones like Askren – might actually have a leg up on grappling and submissions because they spend so much time on the ground anyway. Pure freestyle wrestlers do not. I think you really see the argument coming to fruition in Askren’s style – fluid grappling that mixes submission attempts in.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
by Sabate on Jun 17, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this is a very good point
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by Nate Wilcox on Jun 17, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Askren is a little different case than what King Mo was saying. Askren started the funk movement and nobody can do what he can do. So bjj should be easy for him over all. Now he does get in some weird positions but over all very few people in the world can out wrestle him.
King Mo is more of a power wrestler and is a bigger guy. The moves you can use and do at 170 are way different than a 205 ponder. You will see a ton more wrestlers get into mma and I hope they can copy Askren and also improve on what he has done.
It will be interesting if these ground guys can start doing bjj at younger ages and that would make the be scary.
by Darren Watkins on Jun 18, 2010 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I'm wrong, but..
From your descriptions of the differences, and what I’ve been able to read online, Askren’s “funk” style is, if there was a continuum of collegiate and international freestyle wrestling styles, on the far edge of collegiate wrestling away from freestyle. It involves a lot of groundwork, a lot of scrambling, and a lot of risky positional work.
So my take is that even though Askren is very different (and better) than an archetypal “scrambler”, in some ways its more of a “scrambling” style than what you see in most collegiate wrestling. And that, I believe, is what King Mo was critiquing.
I’m not saying Mo’s right, and I think your point about different styles being more or less viable at different weight classes is excellent. However, Mo’s point wasn’t so nuanced. It was very straightforward: Freestyle wrestling is better for MMA than scrambling, and Cormier and King Mo are the best wrestlers in MMA right now.
Now again, I’m just learning about wrestling really, so I’ll defer to those more knowledgeable than I. But I just wanted to clarify my point.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
That was impressive as hell what askren just did
It was bad ass that I got to witness that in person
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
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by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
do a fan post on that
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by Nate Wilcox on Jun 17, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Might have to
Have this weekend off, I’ll get around to it probably
we're seeking articulate and thoughtful you are neither.
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by Kid Nate on Jun 15, 2010 3:47 PM CDT
Kid Hate layin it down
by II SMASH II on Jun 18, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Fitch doesn't fight well of his back
and Askren’s wrestling is in a different league.
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by Nate Wilcox on Jun 17, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Fitch’s grappling is pretty unique with the judo though. Plus he’s got size on Askren. I think Fitch could control him.
http://www.instrength.com
Sorry fitch will get passed buy
Askren and hendricks are better pure wrestlers than fitch buy a long shot.
by Darren Watkins on Jun 18, 2010 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Fitch is also the best 170 on Earth not named Georges St Pierre
Methinks we’re getting just a little ahead of ourselves here.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Jun 17, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Mr. Jake Shields.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jun 17, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see Fitch beating Shields.
Jake is a much better grappler than Jon Fitch (both as a wrestler and as a BJJ artist), and I seriously doubt that fight would be decided on the feet.
Fitch is a better wrestler and I think that carries the day. Fitch will just posture up in Jake’s guard and punch him for three rounds. It’s difficult to submit or sweep someone who’s just posturing up and not looking to pass. Fitch is a master at that.
by The Darkness on Jun 18, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You weren’t brought back for reserved, rational thought.
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http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I’m trying something new.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Jun 17, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
If they fought right now, yes. In a couple of years, no way. Shields also.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on Jun 17, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Askren would kill Fitch. Fitch could not threaten with his striking or submissions. Askren would eat him alive. Askren v. Kos might be a little more interesting because of Kos’s athleticism.
by The Darkness on Jun 17, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, people see a guy win one fight and all of a sudden he’s gonna dominate everyone. There’s a reason Fitch is # 2 in the world at WW.
http://www.instrength.com
Yeah. He hasn’t gotten destroyed by Askren yet. ;)
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by Richard Wade on Jun 18, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I have always said askren was good, he is just green. If you know the wrestling world, you would know askren and you would know fitch was not that good at wrestling. He doubled dipped his senior year. Got teched buy some nobodys.
by Darren Watkins on Jun 18, 2010 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
To be clear I would have and have said this before he beat HB. He’s a vastly better wrestler than Fitch, which means Fitch would end up on his back, where he’s not going to be able to do anything. I love Fitch, but this is an easy fight to call.
by The Darkness on Jun 18, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Askren would kill fitch on the ground
It would not be close. Askren would beat fitch on the ground. I am a fitch fan and I know both of there wrestling history. Askren would tech fall fitch or pin him in a wrestling match. Not sure who wins the mma fight but it would be close.
by Darren Watkins on Jun 18, 2010 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Just checked in to BE and saw this headline.
And my heart stopped for a moment. Damn, Askren. Longtime “Handler” fan (way before he was cool :p ), but looking forward to watching this fight later.
by judonerd on Jun 17, 2010 10:46 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
You said tingling like 75 times.
Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.
I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.
I’ll be alone in my Askren v. Tyron Woodley fight to see who the best prospect @ 170 is. (I’m absolutely certain that there are other prospects out there that some people may put in a “best prospect@ WW” match – but for my money, that’s it.)
If prospect isn’t the right term – sorry, but you all know what I mean.
by thebookofrob on Jun 17, 2010 11:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
There are videos on Askren’s site of them grappling. Woodley actually was the first person apparently (I believe) to teach Askren some BJJ. Askren gets the better of Woodley on the ground.
by The Darkness on Jun 17, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be real surprised if those two ever went at it
since they were teammates at Mizzou together. I realize guys from the same camp will fight from time to time, but (as a Mizzou alum) this one would surprise me if it ever happened.
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I don’t ever expect them to fight either, but that is the level of fighter I’d want to see Ben go at in the near future. Not Shields, and certainly NOT Fitch – imo that’s just crazy. FYI: Mizzou is a cool campus, we have a jr (to be sr) 125 that’s getting looks from them, and took a trip out during Easter break.
by thebookofrob on Jun 18, 2010 10:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Im watching him now and he looks good
but very very beatable. almost/got swept a couple times, got caught in several silly submissionattempts etc.
anyways he’s good but i think i could beat him, but i’d have to train, and it may even go to decision. 6/10
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
by troy145 on Jun 18, 2010 12:08 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
lol
that’s some funny. will you train UFC or PRIDE?
great sig quote too.
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by Nate Wilcox on Jun 18, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I just finished watching it. Earlier today I picked Hornbuckle to win due to experience, but I switched as soon as I saw him tonight. Before the fight he was sooooo emotional, you could tell he was really nervous and scared. Even in his interviews he was emotional, he almost started crying when he mentioned the reservation. (which I laughed at because Askren wasn’t fighting his reservation, he was just fighting Hornbuckle)
Askren was notably stoic, just like always.
Just looking at Hornbuckle’s eyes on his way to the cage I knew he was going to lose, he looked like he was walking to his death.
The other thing that stood out to me was Hornbuckle’s game plan, or lack thereof. While it was inevitable that Hornbuckle would get taken down, there were times when Hornbuckle over-committed to high risk submission attempts. There were also times when it looked like Hornbuckle pretty much pulled guard. I also saw a part in the fight where Hornbuckle was standing up over Askren who was on his back, and instead of creating distance and get the fight stood up, Hornbuckle went towards Askren and the fight went back to the ground.
Askren looked good though, and I feel that he will beat Lyman Good.
Agreed.
Askren looked amazing but it didn’t help that Hornbuckle didn’t seem concerned about avoiding the takedown. Dan’s shit gameplan was as big a factor as Askren’s great wrestling.
To be fair:
I think that his game plan went out the window with the first takedown. With the vast majority of wrestlers, Hornbuckle would have stuffed it and gotten his heel out. But Askren hung on to that heel with more tenacity than I’ve seen in an MMA fight and got the takedown.
I think, after that, Hornbuckle was kind of bewildered as to what he should do. I mean, with almost any other wrestlers that would’ve been a solid textbook TD defense. What do you do when all your training flies out the window?
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
Wrestlers, take note: this is how it is done.
by Applejack McNeil on Jun 18, 2010 1:17 AM EDT reply actions
WHAT FIGHT WERE YOU WATC…
Oh. Okay. Didn’t notice the [/sarcasm], dude. Shouldn’t forget it next time, this is the interwebz, I was about to p3wn you.
[/sarcasm] =)
by Applejack McNeil on Jun 18, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Dont come to BE if you dont want to see results. To much info in the world and all the other sites have the info too. Sorry you cant watch the fight live but BE cant wait of results b/c you live in the olden ages. Get a DVR or dont get online. if you really dont want to know what the results are if you dont watch a fight live.
by Darren Watkins on Jun 18, 2010 6:36 AM EDT up reply actions
What impressed me
about Askren was the way he passed from full guard to half and side-mount. Instead of trying to go around the guard every time, he would go chest-to-chest and slide his knee between Dan’s legs and completely pass through.
Ben also put his hand down on the mat several times, and I wish Dan had gone for an Omoplata, or at least try to lock down Ben’s transitions with some rubber guard.
Yeah two good points you made.
1) I saw how he was passing inside the guard rather than outside it, and I thought that was really neat. A lot of folks are pooh-poohing the closed guard nowadays, but Askren-Hornbuckle really shows you its utility for protecting inside passes.
2) I’d really like to see Askren tested against a top-level jiu-jitsu guy. It’d be interesting to see what happens. But what MMA welterweight is really reknowned in the BJJ world?
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
Andre Galvao
comes to mind
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by Nate Wilcox on Jun 18, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It would have been awesome if I could have seen it
Fox sports preempted the Belator broadcast to bring us 8 hours worth of Lakers post game press conferences.
Askren Wrestling highlight
on Youtube. Really shows what people are talking about with his “funk” style.
If you fight, you fight. If you hope, you hope.
Great fight! Finally an exciting wrestler, eh? Man, that was a very impressive performance. Before the fight I was hoping for Hornbuckle to win, but after the first few minutes Askren had won me over. Congrats to Askren! I still think Hornbuckle is a very good WW that I hope to see more of, but Askren’s wrestling and grappling was obviously just too much here. Certainly a fighter with a very bright future in the sport.
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