Bellator XXII's Dan Hornbuckle vs Ben Askren an Archetypal MMA Style Clash
Bellator welterweight finalist Dan Hornbuckle talked to Bleacher Report about tonight's bout with Olympic wrestler Ben Askren:
"Well you're talking about American Top Team and if they don't have what you need they go out and get what you need," Hornbuckle said when asked to prepare for a wrestler of Askren's caliber.
"The caliber of wrestlers that we have at ATT is, in my opinion, better than Askren when it comes to competition. We've got guys in our corner who have followed, been through, and beaten Askren so we've got our ducks in a row where we are at right now.
"Am I prepared to fight from my back? Absolutely! We'll see how I fight from my back IF it gets there."
...
"When it comes to skill sets, I will never underestimate another athlete with his wrestling pedigree, but at the same time he has to combine that wrestling with what else?
"Ryan Thomas is a training partner of mine back home and it seemed like Thomas was giving him some fits on the ground so we will see how that holds out."
Ben Askren spoke to KansasCity.com:
(MMA is) something he's been working toward his entire life. Askren fell in love with the sport while watching it on TV growing up. His MMA aspirations further developed at Mizzou.
After wrestling practice Askren would work on jiu-jitsu with Tyron Woodley, a former Tigers wrestling coach and current MMA fighter.
"I got in there and just learned a few things," Askren said. "I definitely picked some things up from him. Whatever he had to offer, I took it. After wrestling, I figured I should get into it. I got a fight and just kept going."
...
His wrestling background, Askren said, proved ideal for his entry into MMA. Wrestlers are usually good at fighting standing up and on the ground, but Askren acknowledged he could improve his stand-up game. He met last week with a coach to receive some suggestions on his jiu-jitsu moves....
"(Hornbuckle's) a well-rounded fighter, but I don't think he's amazing. I think his record is padded by easy wins. He's going to have to step it up a level if he wants to beat me."
This is more than just a huge eliminator match between two of the hottest welterweight prospects on the circuit. Hornbuckle vs Askren is a classic example of the clash between a striker/grappler and a wrestler.
This style clash dates back at least to the two legendary bouts between Jose "Pele" Landi-Jons of Chute Boxe and Jorge "Macaco" Patino, one of the first Brazilian Jiu Jitsu fighters to really show strong wrestling skills. See the epic bouts here. Watch Macaco terrorizing the Brazilian circuit here.
Ever since Marco Ruas showed that combining a decent Muay Thai skill set with some solid submission grappling (in Ruas' case Luta Livre) could be a brutally effective combination in MMA, many fighters have chosen that road. Hornbuckle exemplifies the class. Others would include all the products of the legendary Chute Boxe camp: Mauricio "Shogun" Rua, Wanderlei Silva, Anderson Silva. But also UFC stalwarts like Carlos Condit and Martin Kampmann as well as former Strikeforce champ Gegard Mousasi.
These fighters are a threat to win anywhere the fight takes place, standing or on the ground.
But just as Muhammed "King Mo" Lawal showed Mousasi, when you can't control where the fight takes place, you can't always control the fight.
Askren is interesting because unlike Lawal or his Bellator compatriot Joe Warren, he isn't naturally a ground and pound fighter with some promise on the feet as a striker. Instead he has been adding submissions to his wrestling attack, earning a purple belt in jiu jitsu.
The wrestler/grappler style was perfected by Renato "Babalu" Sobral but Matt Hughes had the most success with the formula. Studying jiu jitsu under self-taught savant Jeremy Horn gave Hughes a deadly finishing arsenal to go with his slamming double leg take downs.
The best current exponent of the wrestler/grappler would be Jake Shields. Shields has shown that his extremely limited stand up skills don't stop him from being a top contender in MMA. Phil Davis is another wrestler going down this road.
Unfortunately for Askren, he's still fairly early on in that process despite the purple belt. As his bouts with Ryan Thomas showed, he's still fairly green in using his jiu jitsu in an MMA context, especially against another accomplished grappler. Hornbuckle is certainly that.
It's also interesting that both fighters have trained with American Top Team at various points. Askren I believe only with their mid-western outposts where he's coached wrestling.
Enjoy the show tonight, it's a fight that will determine not just the course of two very promising careers, but will also be another chapter in an ongoing clash of differing approaches to MMA.
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Hornbuckle sure is talking a big game
almost sounds like he wants us to believe he is confident.
ATT isn’t going to fight for you and I doubt you had better wrestlers than Askren in camp.
Even if you did, that doesn’t mean anything. They could have been working you in training day in and day out.
BTW Matt Hughes is the wrestler/grappler standard every college wrestler should aspire to be.
Hughes didn’t have the BJJ chops though, not the traditional ones at least.
http://www.instrength.com
added that in
and he learned his jiu jitsu/submission grappling from Jeremy Horn. Horn was a jiu jitsu guy, albeit self-taught rather than a student of catch wrestling or any alternative grappling style.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Hughes’ kimura reversal into an armbar in the last second of Round 1 of his first fight with GSP is still one of the greatest finishes in UFC history. His guard passing of guys like Royce Gracie and Chris Lytle, and the way he put Joe Riggs in a kimura from half guard was just beautiful to watch.
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokojanuse Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
by RagingNoodles on Jun 17, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
and how could you forget
the twin rear naked chokes of his arch-enemy Frank Trigg?
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Ah of course, I blame the the fajitas I was eating earlier for my forgetfulness.
I remember Hughes giving a big shout out to Jeremy Horn after the second fight for showing him how to use the gable grip as a counter to Trigg trying to pull down his hand/arm when attempting the RNC in the first fight. Beautiful work from Hughes.
Jeremy Horn really deserves more credit and acclaim than he currently has.
"Caol Uno was like Mutoh. He developed into a star overseas and then returned to his home country a much bigger deal. Dokojanuse Mishima is like Kobashi because they both do moonsaults. Don Frye is like Stan Hansen because they are both fat dumb rednecks with mustaches." - Jonathan Snowden
by RagingNoodles on Jun 17, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuck. Yes.
This is the matchup I’ve been wanting from Bellator all year. I haven’t been more hyped for a non-UFC fight since Fedor/Rogers
(Hornbuckle fanboy here)
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
Also, WTF @
Wrestlers are usually good at fighting standing up and on the ground
Umm… okay?
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
Another thing
Askren isn’t a typical wrestler in any way. He tries a lot of weird shit and isn’t afraid to take risks and be unorthodox.
There really isn’t anyone like him, so there is no one you can bring in to training to emulate him.
He’s like the wrestling equivalent of Lyoto Machida.
All that being said, I’m going with Hornbuckle via experience.
Good article
Nice breakdown of some of the more common roads fighters travel in developing their skillsets. Spot-on examples too.
Plus, anyone who references the awesome Macaco v Pele bouts gets a googleplex of kudos points from me
B-A-K-A-S-U-R-V-I-V-O-R
lousy game seven playin' celtics takin' up the airtime!
guess i’ll have to catch a replay online tomorrow. expecting hornbuckle to get the W though.
I would put my whole on the line...
and bet Hornbuckle will win…
MY SOUL!
I don’t see any way that Askren takes this.
If he does then I am grabbing a rifle and hunting some of them flying pigs. The bacon is on me if he wins.
But don’t expect any free bacon b/c Hornbuckle will prevail.
You've got to pay the troll toll
If you wanna get in this boy’s hole.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
lots of tattoos vs no tattoos?
Actually I’m not sure if Askren is ink free. I’ve only seen him on Bellator, and it’s been a few weeks. Plus he was partly covered up.
Anyone know what kind of name Askren is? I have a wierd idea he’s Latvian, but with nothing to back it up.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Jun 17, 2010 6:34 PM EDT reply actions
Anyone know what kind of name Askren is? I have a wierd idea he’s Latvian, but with nothing to back it up.
I’m not sure but I’m glad you are the one askren. ![]()
by swells2048 on Jun 17, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
recced for smartassery
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Jun 17, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
i really hope that askren doesn’t become a Mo, Hornbuckle has way too much potential to be wet blanketed
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
if he can't fight his way past an elite wrestler
his upside is limited.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Askren has rolled with far better grapplers than Hornbuckle and has held his own. If Hornbuckle doesn’t catch Askren in a submission he’s going to get dominated on the ground. Askren went to the ADCC and is already, I would be willing to wager, a far better no gi grappler than Hornbuckle. This is MMA so Askren might get knocked out, but given that Askren isn’t interested in standing with HB, the odds of that happening are low. Askren by UD.

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