Bellator XXII Fight Card
by Nick Thomas on Jun 14, 2010 9:10 AM EDT
in MMA News
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PrintJoin us at Bloodyelbow.com for the final round of Bellator’s Season 2 welterweight (170 lbs.) tournament Thursday June 17th, live on Fox Sports Net at 8:00 PM EST:
Main Card:
Welterweight Tournament Final:
Dan Hornbuckle (21-2) vs. Ben Askren (5-0)
- Dan Hornbuckle def. Steve Carl by Submission (Kimura) BFC 19
- Dan Hornbuckle def. Tyler Stinson by Submission (Triangle Choke) BFC 15
- Ben Askren def. Ryan Thomas by Decision (Unanimous) BFC 19
- Ben Askren def. Ryan Thomas by Technical Submission (Guillotine Choke) BFC 14
Non-tournament bout:
Jose Vega (5-4) vs. Jared Card (11-3)
Stephanie Frausto (2-1) vs. Lisa Ward (12-5)
- Leonardo Pecanha (11-5) vs. Tyler Stinson (17-6)
- Brian Green (20-14) vs. Rudy Bears (11-5)
- Jared Downing (1-0) vs. Chad Vandenberg (5-2)
- John Orr (5-4) vs. Cole Konrad (3-0)
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Cant wait to watch Hornbuckle vs Askren. Two up and coming WW.
I have to go with Askren pulling this one out but should be a big challenge for him.
I think Hornbuckle takes it. I see him pulling out a submission if (when?) it goes to the ground. Should be a great fight.
by GetYourHeadStomps on Jun 14, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
boy…the Stinson fight and the Konrad fight are both more interesting than the non-tourney crap they’re planning to show.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jun 14, 2010 9:52 AM EDT reply actions
how many bouts are they going to televise?
only 3 because of the championship rounds? …and yes, I’d rather see Konrad.
by Anton Tabuena on Jun 14, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think there are championship rounds
The tournament finals are only 3 rounds AFAIK.
oh wait.
you’re right. brain fart on this one… that stupid poster is misleading. haha.
So why only 3 then?
by Anton Tabuena on Jun 14, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
what the welterweight tournament has taught us so far
1) that dan hornbuckle is as good as everyone thought
2) that ben askren is really good at getting wins over ryan thomas
everyones favorite whipping boy
by glassjawsh on Jun 14, 2010 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
sorry askren fans
But your boy isn’t winning this one.
Hornbuckle by whatever he wants in the first
"I drop knowledge so heavy it leaves the world unbalanced, Exterminate the spiritual force of all that challenge, I'm the lyrical apocalypse that crumbles the granite, Replacing you as the dominant species on the planet" - Immortal Technique
by rkilla on Jun 14, 2010 10:35 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Askren fans?
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jun 14, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Askren by UD
Askren has rolled with and done well against people with better BJJ credentials than HB (e.g., kiko france). Although Hornbuckle is awesome, has very good BJJ and represents a great challenge for Ben, I’m taking Ben. Get ready to be surprised by how easily he positionally dominates Hornbuckle and he never, ever gets tired so if a sub is going to happen, I think it needs to happen early.
Make no mistake, Hornbuckle has no chance to keep this standing, and although he will have somewhere between a significant and awe inspiringly large advantage on his feet, Askren has shown that he’s competent at closing the distance and quickly securing takedowns. Perhaps most importantly, he’s shown he’s not scared to get hit in order to grab a hold of you.
Askren has admitted to being susceptible to leg locks (probably because of his “funky” scrambling style). Nevertheless HB doesn’t have any submission victories from leglocks so I’m assuming they’re not a specialty, though you never know. HB’s BJJ is top notch.
I’m predicting a lot of moaning and handwringing about the future of MMA after Askren’s wrestling completely neutralizes Hornbuckle’s stand up and his wrestling and BJJ allow him to positionally dominate HB from start to finish. Unfortunately for HB, a loss will mean that a bunch of people will conclude that he was overrated, has fought primarily weak competition, etc., when it shouldn’t. Askren can do what he did to Thomas, and will likely do to HB, to probably 99% of the WW division. The appropriate conclusion will be not that HB is overrated, but rather that Askren has been underrated.
Askren will not be able to take Hornbuckle down at will. Askren has no standup game in order to set up his TDs, and he’ll be facing an extremely tall WW with great reach.
Thomas put Askren on his back with a bodylock TD, and defended other shots. Thomas also was far too willing to try for reversals during the grappling exchanges rather than working to stand up and disengage. Hornbuckle will have better TD defense and better scrambling, and thus will have more chances to keep the fight on the feet.
by Hardcharger on Jun 14, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Steve Carl was able to take Hornbuckle down without a problem. You really think the best freestyle wrestler in MMA today is going to have a tough time taking Hornbuckle down? (I know you in fact do, but I can’t help but respond with incredulity:))
Askren’s failed attempt at a bodylock is the equivalent of an elite point guard trying to dribble the ball through his defender’s legs — he knows it’s a low percentage move but he has no respect for his defender so he does it anyway. I’ve watched videos of Askren grappling and he occassionally will give up position or a takedown when going for something completely ridiculous. He has no fear of being on his back because he’s literally some sort of savant at worming and shrimping his way out of difficult grappling positions. If seeing Askren attempt and fail to secure a ridiculous bodylock makes you think HB can keep the fight standing, good for you, but Askren’s two hodge trophies (tantamount to the Heisman in football), US freestyle championship and top 10 finish in the Olympics makes me think the smart money is on Askren’s taking the fight to the ground any way he wants.
Whether HB can keep the distance is another matter. Askren isn’t afraid to get hit, which could spell his demise, but much more likely will allow him to get inside to secure the takedown. 7 or 8 times out of 10 an very good – outstanding wrestler will beat a much better striker (Roller-Njokuani, Sonnen-NM, Kos-Daley, Fitch-Alves, etc.). Fortunately for HB he also has a serious ground game to go with his striking. It should be a good match up, but Askren should be the favorite.
by The Darkness on Jun 14, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t say Askren wouldn’t be able to get ANY takedowns, I said he won’t be able to get every TD he wants. The Thomas fight is an example of that. He wound up on his back. Askren does not want to be on his back with Hornbuckle on top of him.
I’m glad you spent the time enumerating Askren’s wrestling credentials, but let’s not pretend that elite wrestlers have never lost a fight. And Askren neither looks comfortable throwing strikes nor taking/defending them. And Hornbucklw will bring that to the equation, which Askren never had to deal with in his BJJ or wrestling training.
by Hardcharger on Jun 14, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Askren is the elite of the elite wrestlers. He is not just another wrestler. He is one of the best wrestlers in the history of college wrestling. I cant think of another wrestler that has fought in MMA that can compare to his skill level and dominance in wrestling.
WW is already dominated by decent wrestlers in the UFC and now we have a great one starting out and it will be interesting to see how he does in this fight. I agree with The Darkness that Askren should be able to win on positioning alone. I hope he is able to finish the fight or do some great damage but I think this fight will turn into a wrestling/bjj match on the ground for 3 rounds.
Are elbows allowed on the ground in this fight?
Also Askren wrestled in the national team trials sat and now he fights this week. I found that interesting.
by Darren Watkins on Jun 14, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Good question on elbows. I am not sure.
Askren is a great wrestler, but this is just my opionion, but I don’t think his style translates as well for the TD and striking to TD transition game as other wrestlers due. However, his wrestling style is great for his BJJ game and he goes from position to position on the mat seamlessly. Ben was fantastic as an NCAA wrestler, but Hendricks had a better NCAA career and bet Askren head to head when they faced each other. And I like Hendricks, but even he’s not walking through people in the UFC (like TJ Grant, for example).
Hendricks beat Askren early in his career (Askren went undefeated as a junior and senior) and, although he had a great career, Hendricks did not have a better collegiate career. Winning the Hodge twice is basically unheard of. I’ll leave it to D.W. to correct me if I’m off base here.
by The Darkness on Jun 14, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not trying to beat this point to death, but I think most people would disagree even with that statement and say Askren had the better career. Askren was crazy dominant and pinning everyone his junior and senior years. (He like JH went to the finals all four years.) He even beat Herbert 14-2 in the finals his junior year (I believe). (I’m not saying he would come close to duplicating that performance now however — herbert won a silver at the Worlds last year). Nevertheless Hendricks is an outstanding wrestler. There are an amazing number of stud wrestlers at WW.
by The Darkness on Jun 14, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Elbows are allowed in the final (Lombard opened Hess with few ones last year).
"...ride life straight to perfect laughter,
it's the only good fight there is."
by dancingChicken on Jun 14, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe elbows are allowed since this is the final match in the tournament (at least before the super fight or whatever they call it).
Askren lost to Travis Paulson at the trials. I wonder whether that will affect his mental game at all. I also wonder whether, if he keeps not making the worlds, Askren will scale back his commitment to MMA. I have to think that MMA training, although not a huge impediment, is obviously not ideal for wrestling. You get a lot of bumps and bruises in MMA that must make performing your best in a high level wrestling tournament difficult.
by The Darkness on Jun 14, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I may have read a bit too much into your initial statement. I’m predicting HB’s not going to have much more success than GM did against King Mo – he stuffed 3 of 12.
You’re right that Askren doesn’t want HB on top of him, but I doubt HB could keep Askren down even if he gets on top. Askren’s stand up is trash, and HB is tall and rangy, so perhaps he’ll be able to keep Askren at bay with good footwork, push kicks etc. I’m really looking forward to this fight.
by The Darkness on Jun 14, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
This is...
…going to be great. We’ll see just how much pure athletic pedigree means here…
"The best book on the real history of MMA that I've seen," Dave Meltzer
by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 14, 2010 12:25 PM EDT reply actions
I assume you’re referring to Askren when you write “pure athletic pedigree”, but Askren has won a fair number of grappling tournaments and made the quarters at the ADCC. If this were a no gi grappling tournament there’s no reason that Askren shouldn’t be a big favorite. Of course you fold in striking, and you even the playing field a bit, but just a bit, because I don’t think HB will be able to keep the fight standing long enough to land anything significant, but you never know.
by The Darkness on Jun 14, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
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