Kenny Florian Talks About Gray Maynard and His "Boring" Lay and Pray Style
by Anton Tabuena on May 31, 2010 7:49 AM EDT
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Absolutely. I'm much more capable to fight a wrestler the caliber and the size of Gray Maynard. I train with a lot of great wrestlers now. Back then [prior to his fight against Sherk at UFC 64], I didn't train much wrestling at all. The last couple fights I've really focused on developing my wrestling. Now, having the access to train with the guys at the Montreal Wrestling Club and to train with guys like Georges St. Pierre, Gray is going to quickly find out that I'm not the same guy I was back then. I'll tell you this, if he does get me down, he's gonna have to work his ass off to get it. That's for sure.
...That's kinda the way I think he's gonna have to fight. And this is no offense to Gray, but he's gonna have to play his typical, boring, Gray Maynard fight. You know, take the guy down and just stay there. Just lay and pray. I think that is his only hope to win the fight. He's good everywhere, but I think that in order to win the fight, he knows that's what he's gonna have to do. But however he goes about fighting me, it's not gonna be easy.
--Kenny Florian talked to James Kimball and took a slight jab at Gray Maynard's less than crowd-pleasing style.
Read the entire interview where 'KenFlo' also discussed various topics such as Diego Sanchez, the BJ Penn / Frankie Edgar rematch, and the reported bout between James Toney and Randy Couture.
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Sounds like lots of people are sick of it.
I have heard a couple people complain about no seeing anything but LnP and how they aren’t really into the fights anymore. It makes me sad to hear that type of thing.
I still think they should switch to 5 X 3min rounds. It would force the ground game to evolve to a more aggressive one, and would give a little more chance for the stand up game. Also would basically harness back the refs call about standing the fighters up, since that would happen pretty quick at the end of the round anyways.
The only problem I see with that is
Shorter rounds means the wrestler doesn’t have to hold his opponent down for as long.
Five minute rounds are just about the minimum for grapplers to have a real chance at subs. Three minutes wouldn’t be enough time to work – the occasional double-leg-straight-into-sub excluded. Three minutes would turn MMA into kickboxing.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on May 31, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that fighters should really focus more on working to get up off their back, sweep, or work from their back. I hate something like what Marquardt did with Sonnen in that he attempted to hold him hoping to get a standup and just closing the guard, not working an open guard. Marquardt in that fight was more-or-less looking to the ref to give him a way out, and that is just ridiculous when he is a black belt in BJJ, and he wouldn’t even open his guard or try to get back to his feet. Fighters need to learn to get back up on their feet, or just not get taken down. Jabs are used in standup to keep a fighter at a distance, and lateral movement would help as well, and of course there are sprawls and whatnot, so there are ways in the standup to avoid getting taken down.
by chrisbboy82 on May 31, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If the lay and pray continues its going to stop a lot of the momentum mma has…Im far from the type that wants to see a slugfest every fight but lay and pray and lean and pray needs to be stopped….I saw another poster say that the dynamic style of wrestling(gnp and heavy tds) is exciting but both styles of l&p are just horrible…i hope there is some sort of rule change that can keep guys from winning this wat
by longevity on May 31, 2010 9:31 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Part of the game
You want it stopped? You better hope other fighters finally clue in that they are going to have to train and strategize to deal with it.
Here’s the bottom line, it’s part of the sport, it’s an effective means to victory and if you as a fan don’t like it, stop watching. The whole thing is blown so far out of proportion it makes me want to puke. I’ve actually seen people try to argue that Rampage should have won that fight against Rashad because they thought Rashad’s path to victory was boring.
What do you want a fighter like him to do? Stand in the pocket and trade with a better more powerful striker? Are people just straight up stupid? Perhaps all of the whiners are watching the wrong sport because this is nothing new. It’s been around as long as the sport has been around. Not every fight is going to to be some kind of barnburner 15 minute action packed brawl. There are plenty of fights that are boring without wrestling being a factor.
Bottom line, suck it up. You have two choices, appreciate it all for what it is, as part of the sport or just stop watching.
by Worldisart on May 31, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You have two choices, appreciate it all for what it is, as part of the sport or just stop watching.
As a fan I want to see the sport grow. My feer is that more and more people are going to stop watching.
and come to think of it
there just might have been a crazy come from behind KO of a super-hyped charismatic prospect who was totally dominant, beating the shit out of the man who eventually starched him for over ten minutes before getting caught.
I suppose those looking for excitement might find some there.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on May 31, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
That was exciting...
The Russow as a punching bag for 12 minutes wasn’t that exciting… at least according to the the people that were in the same room as me.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed the fights, but aside from the Little Nog / Brilz fight, the very end of the duffee fight and bits and part of the Rampage / Evans fight the crowd was not that amused.
Possibly the crowd was packed with Hollywood assholes and corporate executives who thought they were going to see Mr. T fuck up some wrestler…
by Kwisatz Haderach on May 31, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I have yet to see anyone stop watching. When I hear of waves of people claiming they’re going to stop watching then I’ll be concerned, but the idea that Rashad Evans and Gray Maynard are going to be the death of the sport is beyond ludicrous.
The only people I have heard say that, are people that don’t follow the sport anyway. Fuck ’em.
by bigstupidsmile on May 31, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you. I want the sport to grow. I don’t want the growth to ruin the sport. Everyone’s in such a hurry for this to blow up and become one of the top 4 sports. Then we can all complain, and remember the good old days when fighters would talk to the fans and take pictures, when guys from internet blogs could get interviews, when there were takedowns and ground fighting…
by Kwisatz Haderach on May 31, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
You are right.
I don’t mind seeing some ground and pound efforts, but there seems to be the new strategy where the wrestler will holds his opponent down (or against the cage) without attempts at passing gaurd and without posturing up to land solid blows. More or less riding a position to a win.
I love fights and I will be watching no matter the matchup, but not everybody is the same. Lots of people are getting pissed off about the lack of excitement. I can’t remember the last card that didn’t leave people bitching endlessly. It went from a string of lackluster cards to a string of disapointing performances.
If MMA wants to continue to build momentum, fights like that aren’t really helping.
short memories
wasn’t there a recent main event that ended in round one with a spectacular ko of a previously undefeated champ who was recently considered untouchable after a series of frantic back and forth scrambles?
The sport is going to be fine.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on May 31, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Recent Main Events: For What it's Worth
UFC 108: Evans vs. Silva Lots of people complained about LnP.
UFC 109: Couture vs. Coleman Nobody cares.
UFC 110: Nogueira vs. Velasquez Great fight! Great card!
UFC 111: St-Pierre vs. Hardy Lots of people complained about LnP.
UFC 112: Silva vs. Maia A complete and utter mess.
UFC 113: Machida vs. Shogun Great fight!
UFC 114: Rampage vs. Evans Lots of people complained about LnP
Do people even know what LnP is?
People calling GSP/Hardy LnP are idiots to start with because that is not what lay ’n pray is. What Rashad did Saturday night is not what it is. I want to know, are you arguing for other people Truck? Or are you arguing for yourself?
besides,
Rashad didn’t Lay-n-Pray… but he had very effective Wall-and-Stall. ;)
by Anton Tabuena on May 31, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
That workds too...
Somebody mentioned Lean and Pray somewhere though, so I figured I could stick with the LnP tag.
I am talking about the general conversations after the fights.
I have ordered every one of these cards and enjoyed them for the most part.
When GSP made the decision to just stay in guard, then it became lay n pray.
by Dropkick434 on May 31, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
well summarized
those are only the numbered events, though. We should probably throw in Nelson/Struve, Bones/Truth. and Aldo/Faber for a clearer picture. (Yes, the last wasn’t technically UFC, but it may as well have been from marketing)
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on May 31, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Those were solid cards too, you are correct.
The sad thing is that those cards along with UFC 110 (which was my favorite of the year) were some of the least viewed card.
haha - WHOOPS!
replace nelson/struve with florian/gomi for headliner status. Still, I think we’re getting about as many fan-friendly main events as slower more stragetic ones.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on May 31, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Lol... I figured it out
I think the problem this year has been that the slower more strategic ones have also been the most popular ones. I was one of the 250,000 people that ordered UFC 110. I was one of the people who tracked down the UFV Live event with Jones and Vera.
The people that are complaining aren’t seeing these. They are tuning in for the bigger events and it has been the bigger events that have left a sour taste in the mouths of some.
higher stakes=playing it safe, maybe?
that’s a theory I’ve seen thrown around and that probably has some vailidity. Rua/Machida is an exception for reasons I don’t think I have to explain.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on May 31, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting.
The Aldo/Faber card has already had the Zombie/Garcia fight rerun on spike. It would certainly behoove Zuffa to use Bones/Truth* on UFC Unleashed as a way to hype matters, but I doubt its possible contractually.
* other matches from the card would be welcomed by Spike, too, I’m sure.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on May 31, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
How to stop LnP? Have fighters train getting up from under their opponent!
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on May 31, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I’m still favoring Kenny at this point, but as far as his improved wrestling goes, after Sherk’s manhandling of him on the ground(which admittedly was some time ago), I’ll believe it when I see it. Kenny will light Gray up on the feet after seeing how sloppy his standup looked against Nate Diaz.
Agreed. I wait until I see it. But Kenny does consistently show significant improvement in whatever aspect of the game he works on.
He used to just try and get a fight stoppage due to cut. Now he’s got some of the best stand-up out there. After losing to BJ, he decided he needed a more effective jab, and now he’s got one.
I used to think Kenny was paying Joe Rogan to talk him up during a fight, but I’ve been impressed by how many areas of his game he has improved, and how well he has improved them.
I know what you mean
It’s so ridiculous. Kenny is probably one of the most knowledgeable fighters, and probably knows 100 times more than anybody here about fighting, but according to a large number of self righteous people on this site, he would have to be considered a casual fan since he doesn’t appreciate an effective yet boring style.
just act rational, check your eyes, know your rights
mask the smell with air fresheners and be polite
and then you can easily just have your way with the law-
unless you're black, then you're pretty much fucked, sorry yall
boring?
Nah… I don’t see Gray as boring at all, and I’m in agreement with those who are saying that Kenny is simply trying to bait him into a stand-up fight, where he clearly has the experience edge. But, Gray Maynard, boring? I don’t think so. He’s got some pretty scary takedowns and he’s out to hurt you every single time, plus his GnP – Not at all Lay n Pray. Kenny is either being strategic with his mind games or he’s completely full of crap.
Kenny Please.
Kenny has not won against a top opponent yet. Sherk destroyed him, BJ destroyed him and he hasn’t fought a top 5’er since. How are you number one contender without fighting a top 5 LW. I like Kenny as an analyst but he has been thoroughly protected. After this fight give him some top guys before giving him another title shot.
I’d like to see a Florian vs. Sanchez rematch @ 155.
by LeonDaLion on May 31, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your comment made me curious, so I looked it up. Since 2008 when the Consensus Rankings started up, Florian’s victories were over the unranked Joe Lauzon, 13th ranked Roger Huerta, 12th ranked Joe Stevenson, 18th ranked Clay Guida and 13th ranked Takanori Gomi. His only loss was against the obviously top ranked B.J. Penn.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
Did the same for Maynard. Defeated unranked Dennis Siver, 16th ranked Frank Edgar, unranked Rich Clementi, 14th ranked Jim Miller, 24th ranked Roger Huerta and 17th ranked Nate Diaz.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
So Kenny knocks Maynard,
but was on Rashad’s sack for “neutralizing Rampage, etc, etc” just a few days ago? Hmm I sense a bias here.
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