UFC 114 Post-Fight Analysis: Rashad Evans Loses Allure With Fans Despite Victory Over Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
UFC 114 was considered by most fans to be a rather lackluster event in spite of the hype surrounding the main event of Rashad Evans vs. Quinton "Rampage" Jackson. Stylistically, the fights didn't present an explosive package as a whole, but rather some very tactical match-ups. Despite the criticism, we did witness a miraculous flash knockout of Todd Duffee at the hands of Mike Russow, the welcoming of John Hathaway to the middle-echelon of the UFC's welterweight division, and a spirited effort by Jason Brilz against the very tough Antonio Rogerio Nogueira. But much of the post-fight animosity toward the event sat heavily on Rashad Evans' victory over Jackson.
Hardcore fans can appreciate the way in which Rashad Evans was able to out wrestle Jackson, and they can even look at the way Evans clinched with Jackson as a means to avoiding being pummeled with power. Casual fans, on the other hand, viewed the action with a disappointing attitude, and that's to be expected.
I grew a bit tired of the clinching tactics as they really didn't lead to takedowns early in the fight, and Herb Dean's action to restart the fight in a standing position on multiple occasions was probably a godsend for Jackson. Unfortunately, Evans would continue these same exchanges with Jackson for much of the fight, some resulting in takedowns that effectively took time off the clock. Some liken it to the way Couture completely neutralizes strikers against the fence, and I'd agree in that regard.
Interestingly enough, some of the arguments I've heard hint at the fact that the idealogy of the ring versus the cage has come full circle. Some fans I've talked to believe the cage creates these types of gameplans that Evans implemented, and it hurts the UFC's ability to market a guy like Evans. To be perfectly honest, Evans lost more in victory than Jackson did in defeat with the largest segment of the fanbase. But a win is a win, and Evans will move on to battle Mauricio "Shogun" Rua in a match-up that is somewhat intriguing due to the fact it'll be five rounds and a disparity in styles with the added danger of Shogun's underrated BJJ ground game.
The win over Jackson wasn't the prettiest, but his gameplan was effective and his wrestling proved to be better. While it may have been boring to some fans, Jackson had no answer.
Jackson's future is an attractive conversation topic following the loss. He's stated that it's very tough to juggle both an acting career and a fighting career, but he did say he wanted a rematch with Evans in the future. Will Jackson be motivated enough to defeat his next couple of opponents on his way to a rematch with Rashad? Or will Jackson head off to an acting career in Hollywood? My gut says he'll stick around, and I would think Forrest Griffin may be at the top of his list of potential opponents as it would allow him to avenge his past loss to him.
Other Notes
- Michael Bisping proved he's, at the very least, a solid mid-level UFC middleweight, but he'll need to gain some power in order to be truly threatening toward the top of the division if he intends to use technical boxing and ground and pound to win. I wouldn't mind seeing him be tested against Alan Belcher as Belcher does have power, and Bisping would have to be weary of that along with his sneaky submission ability.
Miller is unfortunately lacking power and technique in his stand-up game, and that isn't going to cut it against the better strikers near the top. If he ever wants to progress, he needs to find a way to improve immensely in his striking skills and footwork.
- What can we really say about Todd Duffee vs. Mike Russow? Russow's incredible chin kept him on life support for the entire fight up until the flash knockout. The only things we can take away from this fight are that Duffee needs to improve his conditioning, and Russow needs to add some muscle in order to effectively implement the gameplan he wanted in wrestling Duffee to the floor. Duffee's hype completely deflates with the loss, but I'm sure he'll be back in the mix in a year with some impressive wins.
- Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs. Jason Brilz was a complete surprise in the context of the action and the outcome. It was definitely a solid chess match on the floor, and Brilz deserves praise for hanging tough on the ground with Nogueira and being very effective in his top control game. Rogerio was visibly having problems with Brilz on the feet, which was a surprise, and I think it was probably due to the fact that Brilz is well-known for being a takedown and pound fighter.
The decision wasn't the worst in MMA history, but it was pretty bad. Brilz won the fight hands down in my mind, but we've been dealing with these types of decisions for a very long time. Ultimately, the UFC will do Brilz right and give him some opportunities while Rogerio may have had his sails deflated a bit with the performance.
- John Hathaway has arrived, and hopefully fans won't sleep on him anymore as I did in the lead-up to this fight. His reach in combination with his striking was more than enough to stop Sanchez in his tracks, but his takedown defense and wrestling was the true decider of this fight. When Sanchez realized he couldn't resort to his tried-and-tested gameplan of flattening opponents on the ground, it was over. I think Hathaway could be a real problem for guys like Martin Kampmann and Mike Swick.
Sanchez looked fairly slow in his footwork, and that definitely contributed to his demise as he got jabbed relentlessly with almost no head movement. I think Dana White is right in that Sanchez is much more suited to cut down to lightweight.
- Amir Sadollah really needs to work on his takedown defense if he wants to try to use his Muay Thai skills more effectively, but I fear it probably wouldn't have helped much against Dong Hyun Kim. For as much questioning that goes on regarding why many hardcore fans like Kim, I think he showed exactly why there is a little hype around him from that portion of the fanbase. Sure, he didn't finish, but he has solid takedown ability, knowledge on the ground, and his ground and pound can be threatening as he's incorporated elbows into his arsenal nicely.
Dong Hyun Kim probably isn't the UFC's ideal candidate to excite casual fans, but I think he is a nice addition to draw in an Asian fanbase. He's also improving, and his conditioning has done well for him in his last two fights. With some work on his striking, he could be fantastic.
- Dan Lauzon was obviously not in shape for his battle with Efrain Escudero, and he probably needs to sit down and realize that his team and his brother, Joe Lauzon, were right. Efrain dominated the fight, and Dan has really never been on a level that makes me believe he's a UFC caliber fighter. He either needs to re-think his training, or get used to winning lowly regional bouts.
- Melvin Guillard is becoming the real deal in terms of rounding out his skills to tailor to his knockout style. Waylon Lowe pressed him hard in the early minutes with takedown attempts, but Guillard either stuffed them or gained his feet immediately. Guillard's brutal knee to Lowe's midsection after stuffing a takedown shows that Guillard has gained the tools to defeat guys who would have dominated him in the past. The UFC will probably want to highlight Guillard on a UFN card next as he's always been one of the more exciting fighters in their roster.
- Cyrille Diabate made a lot of bettors happy, including myself. He weathered the storm early after being dropped, but Cane's wild striking left him wide open for a brilliant combination that flattened him. Cane has become increasingly sloppier in his last few fights, and I think he needs to go back and watch the array of mistakes he's making in his striking.
Diabate should add an interesting element to the division as he's very long with solid Muay Thai and kickboxing abilities. He should pose interesting match-ups with strikers, but I'd have to see a bit more from his ground game to have an opinion on whether now is going to be his time to shine.
- Aaron Riley and Ryan Jensen both came out victorious in their match-ups on the preliminary card. Riley edged out Joe Brammer with a couple of rounds of sloppy boxing and knees while he controlled Brammer in the third on the ground. Jensen was able to secure a quick guillotine choke in the first round against Jesse Forbes.
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great night of fights
I really hope we’ll see a post concerning the BE betting game on MMA Playground.
I bet the house on Hathaway and picked most of the fights correctly. (Although I picked Diego to win)
Diego needs to go back down to LW and change up his training. He needs a plan B for when his take downs don’t work and he’s facing a better striker.
I picked Rashad to win it but I was very nervous for the entire fight. Rampage needs to focus on MMA or retire… Machida and Shogun have transformed the 205 division, no one will get anywhere without putting everything into it.
Bisping needs to learn to finish.
I don't like your assessment of the main event...
And I am usually in total agreement with you Leland.
Rashad pressed the action he whole figh and Rampage barely moved… When Rampage go lucky and Rashad was hurt, Evans fought back and started beating on Quinton. It takes two to fight, and Rampage is the one who didn’t fight imo.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on May 30, 2010 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
my "t" key is loose apparently.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I've been critical of the fight
But that’s not because I was blown away by how good Rampage was or anything. The fight underwhelmed me because Rampage looked unable of mounting any offense at all, and Rashad didn’t feel any desire to finish the fight until after he got rocked.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
The thing that I found frustrating was the fact that Rashad has been given two gifts in a row.
I don’t have anything against Rashad. He won the fight and deserved to, but this was pretty much a mirror of the Thiago Silva fight. He spent two rounds neutralizing his opponent and not doing much offensively. In the third he opened up a bit and got rocked by one of the only shots that landed.
He probably should have been KO’d in both fights, but his opponent stood there and didn’t do a thing while he was wobbled. I know this is largely because he tired them out in the first two rounds, but a better conditioned opponent would have finished the deal. Either that or while Rashad is dazed does he send off sound waves that immobilize his opponent.
Rashad was impressive in both victories (this one more so than the Silva fight), but his chin looks to be a serious liability at this point. Can he take a punch without getting rocked? That is a legitimate question at this point. Shougun had better show up with great cardio if he wants to answer that question.
Its funny that you call his chin a serious liability...
but fail to consider that its possible that his chin is what saved him from shots that would have otherwise KO’d someone else.
Even Machida had to chain together several shots to actually put Rashad out.
Its getting pretty ridiculous that now being “rocked” in two different fights by power punchers, yet not actually getting KO’d and actually surviving their onslaught results in having a “suspect chin”.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
by Razreshat on May 30, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Three fights in a row he was seriously wobbled.
The one fight he lost was the only one where the opponent didn’t gas.
It is pretty ridiculous to say his chin isn’t an issue when it has almost been a decisive issue three times in a row. His opponents stood there and watched him recover in both fights. You can’t pretend that didn’t happen.
YMMV...
but I think you are falling into the meme that if a fighter gets rocked several times or even knocked out on one or more occasions it is because they have a bad chin.
He is 2 and 1 in the last three fights, all of which have seen great punchers find his chin, and yet only one of those guys has managed to put him away or keep him from recovering and winning the fight. You can’t pretend that didn’t happen either.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
“His opponents stood there and watched him recover in both fights. You can’t pretend that didn’t happen.” Great punchers found his chin in the third round and really didn’t do anything after they ‘found his chin. The shots he ate from Rampage were mostly glancing shots and he looked like he was ready to go to sleep. It’s gonna be bad news when he catches one from Shogun and Shogun hops all over him.
Funny how people ignore why neither Rampage nor Thiago could put him away here’s a hint they were gassed thanks to Rashad’s wrestling. Shogun will be lucky to make it to the third round with his lack of cardio and horrible takedown defense.
by Nightwhistler on May 31, 2010 4:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Its funny how I can say
I know this is largely because he tired them out in the first two rounds
and you could follow it up with….
Funny how people ignore why neither Rampage nor Thiago could put him away here’s a hint they were gassed thanks to Rashad’s wrestling
well to be honest
He didn’t get rocked by a punch in last night’s fight. He basically ran face first into Page’s thigh and that jarred him, Couture was showing it on the reply on mma live.
Most guys get finished when rocked in fights, that’s what happens.
I’m kinda impressed that he’s been rocked but was able to recover, he’s like some WWE wrestler.
The recovery is impressive,
but the fact that he has been given time by opponents that were too tired to do anything is a factor. Thigh or fist, being seriously hurt in three fights in a row is a concern.
The win over Jackson wasn’t the prettiest, but his gameplan was effective and his wrestling proved to be better. While it may have been boring to some fans, Jackson had no answer.
This sums that up. Rampage did nothing to win either.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't have said it any better myself
Shad did what he wanted, Rampage didn’t do enough to stop it. The people that hated Shad in the first place, are still going to hate him. I pretty much called this fight moment for moment in previous boards and the responses were “Page doesn’t get ring rust/Page is too much for Shad, even if he’s rusty/Page is on another level”. Now those comments are being hedged. It’s funny because I’ve even heard the “Page’s big shot in the 3rd was bigger than Shad’s in the 1st”. Does that even matter? The fight was what it was, Shad did what he wanted, Page didn’t.
by Doc Martin 28 on May 30, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not that Rampage didn't do enough to stop it...
It’s that Rampage “couldn’t do anything to stop it if he truly wanted to.”
Rashad proved he is a legit top guy at 205.. Page came in the same as always, IMO.. If he made weight, he was in shape.. Ring rust is a mental block.. not a physical block..
Page got worked on for 3 solid rounds and had a brief 45 seconds of offense in the entire fight because he had no answer for the better “overall” fighter..
Smart fight by a smart fighter in Evans… and I’m not an Evans fan… But It was an easy call on the fight to make.. Anybody that thought Page had a chance outside of a one hitter quitter was essentially fooling themselves..
This was one of the easiest fights to call before hand, IMO…
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on May 30, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rampage "didn't" do anything to stop it
It’s not that Rampage didn’t have the technique or the athleticism to end the fight. It’s that he never really took the dive and let his hands fly. You’re right, he did have a mental block and it was obvious by his complete lack of aggression. He really didn’t take any risks at all. Neither fighter looked any different from when they entered the ring. They didn’t take any physical damage. Neither fighter was “beat up” and to say that Rashad beat Rampage up would be foolish imo. He most definitely out-wrestled Rampage, but that’s about it. GSP out-wrestles and beats his opponents up. Looking at Rahad/Thiago and Rashad/Jackson, all Rahad does is out-wrestle his opponents. Smart, but boring to watch, which is why he’s ‘losing allure with fans’ despite victories over Rampage and Thiago.
Rashad is merely a heel at this point...
This allure talk is opinion… In any case, the allure is still there from both sides.. People want to see him win or lose just as bad, so they tune in..
No different than KOS..
So what that you didn’t like the fight.. Or anyone for that matter.. People still watched, either for or against, but they watched.. Rashad can’t catch a break.. He was bagged on by many as a lay & pray wrestler.. He goes out and starts knocking guys clean out, then he gets bagged on for being cocky and brash. People can’t always have it “their” way.. This was a fight.. A fight with two top guys with a lot of backlog and reputation at stake.. They were equally respectful of each others ability in the cage. The difference is that Rashad has more than a punchers chance as an offensive weapon at this point.. Remember this is sport, not gladiator combat.. Rashad did what he had to do to win the fight in the realm of sport. He proved his is by far the better of the two at this point..
Again, it’s not that Rampage didn’t do anything.. It’s simply that he couldn’t.. Rashad beat him to the punch at every exchange and out muscled him. He pulled out a great gameplan against a very dangerous opponent.. If that had been Randy in there, everyone would have been going ape shit in excitement because their guy was winning.. in this case, the bad guy one and now people feel slighted by it..
I say tough luck.. If they don’t like the way he fought, or fights in general, then do something to stop it and force him to change it.. People bagged on Machida for his boring style too.. Then he got a few KO’s and the title and everyone loved him.. Rashad wasn’t running from Page.. so I didn’t see the “boring” part, many refer to.. Shad had Page rocked in the first 10 seconds of the fight and took complete control and dominated the fight with his clinch, wrestling and TD’s.. Shad was throwing punched from the clinch, when he could.. The clinch is a battle for position.. Only once you have control of said position, does one open up with strikes..
Shad is a top 205’er.. His record speaks for itself at this point.. Chuck, Tito, Page, T. Silva, Forrest etc.. Those are all tough guys to beat.. His one loss to Machida doesn’t diminish his success as a small LHW fighting the bigger and better guys, so to speak…
I’m not a Shad fan, but I respect his ability and he has nothing more to prove at this point..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on May 31, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Preach the truth! People seem to be annoyed that they didn’t get to see Rampage knock somebody out. So fine, let him fight Thiago Silva next. More stand and bang for their buck. Neither fighter was on Rashad’s level, and both lack the tools, or at least the will to use them, that Rashad has. He outstruck Rampage, beat him up in the clinch, and took him down hard several times. A thoroughly dominant and VERSATILE performance. I enjoyed both those fights, and the wrestling aspect of both was pretty action packed. Neither fight was remotely an example of lay n’ pray. If that was boring, then some people just don’t actually like MMA. They think they do, but really they want K1 with the occasional flying armbar.
by Kwisatz Haderach on May 31, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Rashad delivered on his game plan. Rampage didn't. Be mad at him.
Rashad’s game plan was never going to deliver fireworks. Rampage game plan was to brawl but he just stood there and missed opportunities.
by snakecharmer1340 on May 30, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
This was one smart fight that I enjoyed. Better than Jung v Garcia.
I was going to make a fanpost about it, but did anyone else feel more satisfied watching Evans v Jackson than Jung v Garcia?
Seeing poor technique fighters wing wild hooks at each other that have no power behind them (all arm) and miss most of them isn’t very appealing. Yes, there is an odd thrill, but I found it more humorous than anything.
I definitely don’t think Jung v Garcia is worthy of fight of the year labels, nor do I feel that way about Evans v Jackson, but at least the latter was satisfying to watch and had alot of interesting tension. I thought it was a great matchup of styles and strengths.
It was definitely a more exciting fight. Way more on the line, potential for a one shot knockout at any moment, and a smart and well executed gameplan from Rashad, using a diverse set of MMA skill and technique. I enjoyed Jung/Garcia, but it was a slopfest.
by Kwisatz Haderach on May 31, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m thinking the complete opposite to you. Rashad wasn’t engaging at all. And I really can’t see how pinning someone against the cage and failing to take them down is winning a fight.
Clinching an opponent to retain positional control is about as engaged as you can get ..
This was never going to be a slug fest.. Rashad’s to smart and Rampage is too limited in other aspects to MMA..
Sadly, it was Rampage that could do nothing to prevent the fight from taking place on Rashard’s terms..
Rashad threw punches from the clinch.. Give Page credit for having great defense in the clinch and avoiding TD’s.. But Rashad did what he came to do.. beat Rampage.. It was a one sided fight from the first 8 seconds when Page went flailing across the cage from a right hand..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on May 30, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
By mma rules
It is winning the fight, and Rashad won that fight.
It just gets you booed because it’s playing it safe, and quite unsatisfying to watch.
Rashad wasn’t winning that fight by exchanging with Rampage though, so he did what he had too.
Shogun lost a close decision! Everyone get crazy!
How about beating them up against the fence with dirty boxing and then successfully taking them down numerous times, after having landed the most decisive strike of the entire fight. That fight you watched where some guy pinned his opponent against the cage and couldn’t take him down must’ve sucked. Fortunately it happened only in your imagination.
by Kwisatz Haderach on May 31, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I couldn't agree more.
3 rounds of Rampage standing here wondering why he’s in this cage yet the Rampage cult is still as strong as it was.
It opens the debate really.
Rampage is clearly the bigger and stronger man. He’s a brawler with a wrestler background and powerful punches. Rashad is the smaller guy, what he brings to the cage is speed, work ethics and being a student of the game. He’s the living proof that what we all love (and study for a lot of us) actually works.
I don’t understand why the MMA community isn’t cheering for him.
by MarcoDos on May 31, 2010 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think what drives me nuts is that the supposed animosity and hatred doesn’t translate into the fight. I know this is a fight and both guys want to win but i cant believe that all the animosity turns to a feverish obsession for leg humping as soon as the cage door closes. Hughes v. Serra went that way and so did Jackson v. Evans. I should have seen it coming when at the weigh-ins when Rashad called it “just another fight” but goddamn i never thought a “grudge match” or hatred would call for clearly trying to grind out a decision.
R.I.P Paul Gray (#2)
If that's what you want...
you will have to wait till somebody that doesnt play cautious to win like Chuck Liddell fighting Tito again. Then you will get your grudge match without any game planning.
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate...
there will still be game planning there. kinda.
R.I.P Paul Gray (#2)
by Earl Montclair on May 30, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you really think differently?
Did you think Rashad was going to totally ignore a game plan that is likely to succeed for one that was going to be exciting and probably a bad idea for him?
by Doc Martin 28 on May 30, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry for being such an idiot.
R.I.P Paul Gray (#2)
by Earl Montclair on May 30, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
It’s okay.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on May 30, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Does watching every UFC, dream, strikeforce event and reading BE everyday make me a hardcore or casual fan? because i couldnt stand rashads tactics, as its much easier to stall then to fight
what did Rampage do?
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
moved slow and got tired
R.I.P Paul Gray (#2)
by Earl Montclair on May 30, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
no, he didn't.
And it was because of Rashad.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on May 30, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Then why didn’t he when Rashad was on wobblelegs?
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He said that he was “in the best shape of his career” so why would he have gotten tired so quickly? Ofcource that is what he said before the fight.
Take ONE Karate class, if you're so into Karate...
He was the most dangerous Rampage to ever fight
And he got staggered to the cage in the first 20 seconds to the fight
Props to Rampage selling his wolf tickets, those acting classes are paying off. I am still worried he is going to pull a Carano and be done with this MMA nonsense. Way more money and fame to be had with no training camps and people trying to punch you in the face.
by The Blackula on May 30, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you ever heard of a fighter...
… claim that he was in anything other than his best after a layoff to hype up a fight? Didn’t think so. Even Tim Sylvia would probably claim to be in the best shape of his life right now. Randy Couture says he is, James Toney will say he is, as would Roy Jones Jr. and I can go on and on. It’s not possible for Rampage to have been in the best shape of his career if he looked like a lard ass just a month ago. Everyone wanted to believe it, but reality hits in the octagon. Sure he’s in far better shape than most other 205’ers, but he was not in the best shape of his career and only an idiot would believe he was. And to say that he was actually hurt by that first shot thrown by Rashad would also be foolish.
I have to agree. I hate the snobbish way “hardcore fan” is used and how “casual fan” is used as a pejorative.
by jrobb20 on May 30, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Does it really matter? Don’t read into it and don’t take it personally…
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni
Well obviously it doesn’t matter, but it wreaks of snobbishness.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
You guys are reading way too much into it, it has nothing to do with snobbishness. There’s a vast majority of the UFC fanbase that really only pays attention to MMA a couple days a month, these people are the casual fans and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being a casual fan, the sport wouldn’t be what it is today without these people contributing their hard earned money to it. There’s another much smaller subset of fans who live and breathe MMA, those are the hardcore fans and while some of the hardcore fans may come off as being snobbish about the sport the term “hardcore fan” in and of itself is not snobbish.
by ufc4 on May 30, 2010 3:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Tough.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on May 30, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The only person taking it snobbishly is people using it in that way. A term it in very topical ways. Casual fans want action and KO’s all the time, hardcore fans can appreciate the ground tactics and “boring” times that casual fans do not like, plain and simple.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, just like there are some baseball fans who just wanna see homers and 10-8 scores and some who can appreciate a 2-1 pitchers duel just as much.
by ufc4 on May 30, 2010 3:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Point of clarification
I agree with the broad sentiment – but there are casual baseball fans who enjoy a pitcher’s duel, and hardcore fans who enjoy a home run derby. Same in MMA.
I think the stereotype is true that generally hardcore fans of sports enjoy the intricacies and details that more casual fans might not, but when you start using those terms of course you will bring out the exceptions from people who don’t fit those stereotypes.
Me – a semi-hardcore fan who enjoyed the fight quite a bit.
I appreciate what you’re saying and take your explanation at face value. It just comes across to me as if because I didn’t find it a compelling fight it’s because I don’t appreciate/understand ground tactics. Which I do on both counts.
I think we forget these are people fighting. Artists in a way. Each person may be studying the same moves, but, their personal application of them will be more appealing to some than others. It’s not about “wrestling is boring” as many are want to say. I love wrestling. I like to watch some guys wrestle others not so much. They’re all doing 90% the same moves, but, some people’s personal application of the art is more appealing to me than others.
I think it’s an appropriate analogy to compare it to music. Everyone is playing the same notes/chords, but, I don’t love every song ever written. It’s the application of those notes that makes people like it or not. Joe Satriani is an ungodly guitar player. He can do things with a guitar that only very few people in the world can do. I appreciate his technical abilities, but, I don’t enjoy his music. I understand what he’s doing and how hard it is. It’s just not appealing to me.
I’m not trying to be annoying. I enjoy Bloody Elbow and the job you guys do. I appreciate the level of civility that exists here. Just my two cents. I’ll go away now. :-)
by jrobb20 on May 30, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Most casual fans do understand the ground fight, but they don’t appreciate it because they want knockouts. It’s not really a myth because I see it all the time. People who are completely uninterested once the fight hits the floor.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 31, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Nobody told Rampage
to just throw an overhook over Rashad’s arm and stay pinned against the cage. He had paths to victory (and even escapes from the cage) and didn’t do them. That loss (and boredom) is all on Rampage. He didn’t do much to defend getting pushed against the cage, and he didn’t do much to get away once he was pushed there.
Evans did exactly what he had to do to win.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
by duck on May 30, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
thank you duck.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Word, good sir
Takes two to fight, Rampage was unable to adapt or work a plan B. Thats not Rashads fault.
Jackson needs to rededicate himself to the sport. Plain and simple, a truly motivated and well trained rampage is too miserable to howl and try and sell the fight he will be laid back but confident. The more fired up he is, the more likely the chance that he is putting up a front to psysche out his opponent/convince fans he is in rare form. As far as Rampage is concerned:
The best training camp of my life = taking it easy, getting a good work out.
Training is like hell = Coaches and trainers are busting his ass in the gym and bringing out the best in him.
At least that’s how I see it.
by The Blackula on May 30, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Rampage has a crappy camp
Jackson needs a better camp, period. He hasn’t ever changed his strategy or evolved. Ask Cro-Cop how it is when you fail to adapt.
As far as Rampage being miserable. I think he took it to heart when Rashad called him an Uncle Tom. For a little bit Rampage tried to shake it off, but ever since then, he’s kind of pulled into himself. I think he took that insult seriously.
by Doc Martin 28 on May 30, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
He hasn’t ever changed his strategy or evolved
That’s not true.
He’s devolved.
When he was with Team Oyama, he was a wrestle-boxer who was just as likely to pick you up and dump you on your head as he was to punch you in the mouth. When he got with Juanito, he tightened up his boxing tremendously and developed a standup style that suits him to a ‘T’, but he abandoned his offensive wrestling. Now with the Wolfslair, he basically has maintained his Ibarra standup style, but his defensive wrestling looks to have eroded. I can’t imagine the Oyama-era Rampage letting his opponent pin him on the cage or bowl him over with power doubles.
I get what you're saying here and I agree
But evolution means adapting for the better to have a greater opportunity to succeed. Rampage hasn’t done that. I’ll also argue a bit that Rampage’s wrestling was more of a strength in Japan when he was going against guys that didn’t have solid wrestling backgrounds. I believe he’s abandoned it far too much though these days.
by Doc Martin 28 on May 30, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Would have been useless last night
Rashad never stayed within distance for Rampage to use a jab. Go back and look how far away Rashad stayed from him, except when HE decided to close distance and strike, and immediately got out of Rampage’s range. Not that he did that often – usually, it was a feint to get Rampage to take a step, and then Rasahd hit the takedown.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Rashad scored takedowns because Quinton was throwing hooks. the few jabs he did throw kept Rashad at bay when he threw them. He could have used the jab and walked Rashad down. The jab would have been his best weapon. It doesn’t have to connect, it establishes range and helps you establish an angle of attack. The jab had a place last night. Quinton failed to find it.
Kim
I remember a while back when he was schedded to go against Hardy. I think that would be an interesting match to make now. Hardy needs to deal with guys who want to rough him up close, and Kim’s ready for a higher profile opponent.
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on May 30, 2010 2:47 PM EDT reply actions
speaking of Kim
where is the crying about that fight?
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
why should there be crying?
R.I.P Paul Gray (#2)
by Earl Montclair on May 30, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Rashad vs. Rampage was boring
but that wasn’t?
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
it's easier to get mad about a heavily hyped grudge match
also a main even on a pay per view rather than a basic cable prelim
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on May 30, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bars with no cover FTW!
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
I didn’t think either fights were boring.
R.I.P Paul Gray (#2)
by Earl Montclair on May 30, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
neither did i.
I thought all the fights were evenly matched and it showed… I was just speaking on the outrage and backlash Rashad is dealing with on the blogs. Even after a win, an article about the PPV has a picture of the one moment he was in trouble, because people didn’t like his performance… He is fighting an uphill battle, when he should already have earned more than enough respect. It just seems ridiculous to me.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I think it is just the result of all the shit he talked and then he went in there to grind on him and win a decision. Fights that are hyped like this are bound to disappoint when the hype and talk is so big.
R.I.P Paul Gray (#2)
by Earl Montclair on May 30, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I understand that...
I just think people are looking at it the wrong way. Rampage didn’t push any of he action at all…. Once he did in the last round it was 2 people fighting… Up until then it was basically Rashad pushing the action, without letting Rampage counter… He was in and out, and Rampage wasn’t landing too much. I’d say that Rampage got more offense in the Clinch in the first 2 rounds than he got at distance… and that was all Rashad.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Loot I agree
I think people are going to look for an excuse to hate on Page rather than point the finger at a poor performance by Rampage. That’s pretty much where things stand.
by Doc Martin 28 on May 30, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea...
i agree with u
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Kim's fight
was a very different animal. The lack of damage was because of excellent guard work by Sadollah. Also Kim did attempt ground and pound to a greater extend than Rashad. Couple this with the fact that Sadollah is much more dangerous then Rampage off his back and that really brings Kims efforts to perspective. I enjoyed both fights, but I never felt Kim was “playing it safe”. Could he have taken more risk, perhaps.
neither did I...
i am just saying I think the outrage for Rashad is more based on biases against him as opposed to his performance.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
from the casuals, yes
I thnk the people that are complaining are a mixed crowd. I’m debating avoiding commenting for the next 2 are 3 days until the sherdoggers dissapear…. like every major event.
Well in all fairness, you have to admit that was the most exciting part of the fight.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
epic moment...
in a good fight. But I don’t think it should take away what is a good victory for Rashad.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
You must be delusional then.
Rashad loses allure with the casual fans. You, on the other hand, are talking about fans who actually care. There is a huge difference.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeremy from Heavy said that most of the crowd was going wild for Rashad post fight.
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by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
So what.
Leland Roling from BloodyElbow.com said that most of his living room was fucking pissed at Rashad, and Leland Roling also said that most of his buddies called him this morning bitching about Rashad. Those are demographic casual fans.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
my living room was going crazy.
:-/
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I’m just saying, the arena told a different story. My friends were texting me that they thought it was a great fight and that Rashad straight up clowned Rampage.
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by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously, there is going to be a disparity, and now I’m tired of talking about it as I’ve talked all morning about how Rashad worked a perfect gameplan and received “He’s fucking BORING THOUGH” from the other end of the phone.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you have the same conversation after GSP/Hardy? Maybe it was just a different atmosphere for this fight but more of my friends were pissed about GSP/Hardy than this one.
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by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, yes, I did.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing is..
the lost allure seems to be with the Hardcore fans… The internet is absolutely livid about this victory apparently.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
The lost allure isn’t with hardcore fans for the most part. I think a lot of casual fans felt Rashad was just hugging Rampage for three rounds. And as absurd as that is… it’s REAL TALK.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
well I'm not going to argue how people feel
cuz obviously everyone takes something different from the fight. I guess we’re just both speaking from what we’ve seen first hand during and after the event.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
plus I understand you're taking a somewhat neutral stance
talking about both casual, and hardcore fans.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Casual fans are fickle, forgetful, and easy to change the minds of.
Rashad shouldn’t worry about it.
um, perhaps your sample size is a little small.
the majority of people i watched the fight with and have spoken with today found it intense and enjoyable. i haven’t heard one “boring” comment yet. a few “wish jackson/evans had knocked him out” comments but that has been it.
Kim was going for takedowns the whole time, and when he had top control, was constantly trying to transition for full mount or utilize his elbows from side control. Luckily for Amir, he’s good enough on the ground that he was able to keep Kim from ever getting great position. He just wasn’t good enough on his judo/TDD to keep kim from taking him down nor able to sweep Kim. It was a good grappling match that Kim dominated.
Rashad attempted very few takedowns the whole fight, and didn’t do anything with them until Jackson gassed during his one great offensive push. The rest of the fight was Rashad pushing Jackson up against the cage and stalling. It wasn’t great wrestling in the sense of staying active and going for the take down, it was more, as one other poster put it, running out the clock.
Kim consistently engaged his opponent, and came to fight. Rashad didn’t do so until the third round and only when the better boxer/striker almost knocked him out (again). All the praise to Rashad for making sure his conditioning was top notch and wrestling with bigger guys during training, because it was the key to his win. But the fight was basically just awarding points for a stalling fighter the first two rounds, save for the hook he caught Jackson with.
by sBruce24 on May 30, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I saw a great BJJ match in the Kim fight with lots of movement and transitions. That was more exciting than clock-draining wall humping with a few potshots to the knee.
The main event wasn’t as bad as some people are making it out to be, but I spent a lot of that fight watching the clock drain down—minutes between significant action
.
If I may ask...
How good is Kim’s judo? Because from what I’ve seen it looks to be the best in MMA and his leg’s ability to grow into the ground on command might imho nullify WW’s top grapplers(outside of Kos and George). I’d be really interested to hear a judoka’s opinion :)
Google Ron Paul!
Real Talk: Did anyone really think Rashad was gonna stand and trade with Rampage?
Subquestion: Are you retarded?
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Well i must be retarded for thinking Rashad would back up all that shit he talked. Stupid me.
R.I.P Paul Gray (#2)
by Earl Montclair on May 30, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
i must be retarded for think Rampage would...
IMO Rashad did a lot more.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Rashad fought the fight he needed to get the win. And if I had a check for 400,000+ for me if I won, I’d have done the same thing. People in Fagan’s post are saying it would have been different if it went 5 rounds. No it wouldn’t, except maybe Rashad finishes a completely gassed Rampage.
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by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
Especially cuz he had just turned the tide… The momentum was shifting in his favor, and Rampage had completely blown his wad. Rashad was tired, but still fighting hard.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I just don’t get the whole “he should stand and bang” point of view. Rampage should have circled off the cage if he wanted to box. Or stuff a takedown. Shit I know he knows what circling off the cage is since he said it a ton during his stints on TUF.
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by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Whats funny is that I think Rampage
landed more shots in the clinch, than at a distance for the first few rounds… I remember him throwing a few knees at the very least, and don’t remember much from him other than that.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Shit talk like...
calling Rampage out for “perpetuating negative stereotypes with his public persona”?
Oh snap!
Does he kiss his mama with that mouth?
Am I retarded
god I hope not, but no, I didn’t think Rashad was just gonna stand in front of “Page”, Greg Jackson is just to smart for that.
Have I read this question phrased nearly the exact same way everywhere?
Subquestion: Did you really feel the need to post it again?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Yes
Yes
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by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is this an R.Kelly tribute question?
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Everything should be a R.Kelly tribute question.
When it came to this fight was anyone’s mind telling them no, their body telling them yes?
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by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You heard the R. Kelly shit where he sings and argument with his women, and throws in REAL TALK in every verse, right?
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, he's a genius.
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by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope but
I did think that he would try to take the fight to the ground as much as possible. Instead he just used the cage and spent the majority of the time in a clinch.
Though I’m disappointed in Rampage too for not showing up at all until the 3rd round.
Rampage forgets how to circle away from the cage and that’s Rashad’s fault? Huh?
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by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No, and Rashad won the fight, props to him. But when a guy talks as much smack as Rashad did, its perfectly justifiable for people to ask why he didn’t bring it to Rampage. I never thought he was going to, in his right mind, just stand there and trade with Rampage, but I think even a lot of the more serious fans at least expected to see some GnP like from the Forrest fight.
"HE"S DEAD!"
Rampage’s exact words at the weigh in…why are you not upset about Rampage’s utter inability to live up to his pre-fight hype shit talking? Which was even more volumous than Rashad’s in many ways.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
Don’t get it twisted, I thought the only way Rampage took this was by being able to chase down Rashad and get the TKO (which just about happened) or by luring Rashad into a stand-up battle (highly unlikely from the beginning). I expected Rashad to use his wrestling ability, and seeing him train with a dude like Carwin convinced me that he might be able to get past Rampage’s strength advantage.
But a lot of Rashad’s winning that fight was just him pushing Rampage up against the cage without really trying to engage by going for take downs and GnP. You could try to chalk it up to Rampage’s TDD, but I didn’t even see Rashad try for the takedowns from the clinch very much. Yes, Rampage was neutralized, but I felt like he at least tried to back up what he said, and just couldn’t do what he wanted.
Again, Rashad survived the very type of flurry that was going to be the basis for any Rampage win, and he won that fight. But I think Rampage came to engage his opponent, and Rashad came to get a decsion. I just see it as Rampage’s inability versus what can be perceived as reluctance on Rashad’s part. I’m not saying Rashad did anything wrong in that fight, but he does come off as being full of crap for the past 11 months (or whatever its been since TUF 10) leading up to the fight.
And I agree with you on Rampage, its just separate from my beef with Rashad. Rampage I feel came to fight, but just wasn’t prepared for this fight, even from a physical standpoint. He looked slow and gassed. But additionally, its like he didn’t train wrestling at all. I think it was Van Arsdale who commented that Rampage’s training regimen was behind the times, and it looked it in the fight. He wasn’t wrestling, from what little we saw of his training, with dudes of Evans’ skill level or size, let alone someone like Shane Carwin.
So basically, I thought Rampage came to fight, but didn’t prepare for it. I thought Rashad’s preparation was fantastic, but he didn’t really come to fight, or rather, he never looked like he intended to finish at all until desperation set in that 3rd round. I understand you don’t put yourself in bad positions just to be exciting, but Rampage was never going to challenge him off his back, so I wouldn’t buy that argument for Rashad.
At least now you are saying something.
But your comment that I replied to was rubish. Saying one of these fighters didn’t live up to his smack talk, without condeming the other is ridiculous.
However, this: " thought Rampage came to fight, but didn’t prepare for it. I thought Rashad’s preparation was fantastic, but he didn’t really come to fight," is trying to play word games to fit your biased view of the world.
Rampage coming to fight INCLUDES preparing to fight and separating the two is akin to excuse making. And claiming the opposite for Rashad is nothing more than laying personal bias on the fight to deny Rashad the credit he is due for fighting a smart fight that led to victory.
I’m not a big fan of Rashad or his fighting style, but he is getting very unfairly blamed for defeating Rampage and exposing all his failings, both enduring and specific to this fight.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
his points are perfectly sound
Rashad didn’t come to fight. He came to not lose. That said, he implemented an effective gameplan, but at no point did he actively seek to end the fight.
Thats his prerogative, but it’s wholly understandable fans would be upset by this approach.
Quinton is just as much to blame for not engaging, yes… but who came closer to finishing the fight? Thats why people are upset at Rashad. How many times did Rashad spend in superior positions and how much effort did he punt into ending the fight from those positions?
I’m not mad at either fighter. I don’t hate Rashad for how he chose to win and I will watch his Shogun fight. That said, I am not going to lecture other fans because they don’t agree with his path to victory. In judo and BJJ, even when i’m up on points, I always try to end my matches, down to the last second. When I finally step in the ring for the MT match I’m training for, I will do the same. And the day I step into a cage, I intend to try to put away whoever is in front of me.
That said, Rashad is no less of a fighter for fighting how he did. But I leave it up to the fans to take his approach however they want.
Am I the only one that was rooting for Rashad and was genuinely excited for all 15 minutes? It may be from years of suffering with the JETS, but I had a knot in my stomach leading up to the fight and was on the edge of my seat for the entire fifteen minutes, including a Tiger Woods fist pump when Rashad landed the final takedown. Even if the fight wasn’t that exciting stylistically, watching it with those kind of nerves really makes the fights exciting. There aren’t too many fights that carry that kind of weight with them, in my opinion.
by xDieseLx on May 30, 2010 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
my whole house was nervous, cuz we like both guys...
it was drama everytime something happened, cuz of the Rampage’s one punch KO, and Rashad’s ridiculous speed.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I can't lie...
I wanted to see if the fight would play out like it did in my head… and it really did. From Rashad winning, to the last second dramatics of almost being KO’d… Rashad coming back at the end was a big plus though
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I think it played out exactly how almost everyone thought it would barring a Rampage KO.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I picked Rampage by KO, but I figured if that didn’t happen it would be because Rashad wrestled him to a decision.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
You're not the only
one rooting for Suga, I respect Rampage as a fighter, but was hoping deep down inside his ass was gonna lose.
Nice write-up
I’m not the biggest Evans fan, but I think the criticism he’s been getting over his win is a bit unfair. He tried repeatedly to get the takedown, but due to Jackson’s very good TDD, coupled with his power, made it very difficult. Evans worked non-stop and he shouldn’t be faulted for that. Anyone other than Jackson probably would have been on the mat the whole fight. Evan’s would have been stupid to have gotten into a slugfest with Rampage.
Duffee will bounce back for sure. He’s young and I still think he’ll be a beast in that weightclass.
I was very impressed with Hathaway. He has a bright future ahead of him. A Swick match-up would be fun. I’d like to see him eventually tested with better wrestling than Sanchez (who’s wrestling I don’t think is all that impressive) to see how he really fairs as a potential contender to the title. Great job for Hathaway and I’m a fan.
It’s nice to see Guillard becoming a bit more humbled and maturing as both a fighter and person. I use to really dislike the guy but he’s winning me over. He made a good choice training at the Jackson camp.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Hardcore vs. Casual fan?
One thing that bothers me is whenever someone says “hardcore fans appreciate this!” or “casual fans can’t appreciate that!” It’s really fucking annoying. I consider myself a hardcore fan. I like all facets of the game. It’s just really annoying when pretentious writers say that if a fan doesn’t appreciate a lackluster or boring fight, then they are not a “hardcore” fan. I thought this fight was okay. Rashad had some flashes of brilliance, but no, I didn’t think it was really that exciting overall. Sorry. Who is to say that a casual fan can’t respect the way Rashad neutralized Rampage through his distance and level changes? And who is to say a hardcore fan really isn’t to thrilled with the way mma is moving towards a wrestling era again?
Well, you should probably move on then because that’s exactly what I didn’t say.
Hardcore fans can appreciate the way in which Rashad Evans was able to out wrestle Jackson, and they can even look at the way Evans clinched with Jackson as a means to avoiding being pummeled with power. Casual fans, on the other hand, viewed the action with a disappointing attitude, and that’s to be expected.
I never said “if a fan doesn’t appreciate a lackluster or boring fight, they aren’t hardcore.” Not anywhere in that paragraph. I said that hardcore fans can appreciate that type of fight. I never said they weren’t hardcore. Get your head on straight before making critiques that are completely ignorant to what was written.
I’m a very hardcore fan, and I actually thought some of these fights were downright boring.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Adding "can"...
doesn’t make it any better. Look, dude, I’m not only saying it was this article, I’m saying a lot of people say this kind of shit. Everywhere…forums, articles…it’s just a little silly and elitist. Now, I know some people just can’t think of original writing transitions, and that’s fine. Just something that irks me. Kind of like when someone says someone else is ignorant just because the other person criticizes something as trivial as writing style. Just voicing my opinion.
by Lil_Doomsday on May 30, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It isn’t silly or elitist at all. It’s two segments of the fanbase that DO exist. Whether you like it or not, they exist and are a big part of the MMA community.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrong.
I’m not arguing that there are two segments of fanbase. That is clearly a given. I am arguing that is completely elitist for someone such as yourself to say what a casual fan or hardcore fan thinks. And, clearly, you generalize the whole casual fanbase by saying they weren’t happy with the fight. Your article may not be the worst example of this, but it is an example of this. I’m sorry that is the way I feel, but I couldn’t even get beyond that part because in my head it was like, “here we go again; ANOTHER mma know it all that is telling me what I should think.”
by Lil_Doomsday on May 30, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sorry if I didn’t put “Some casual fans”, but generally.. casual fans do think in that manner.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Nor do I mind if a fan is casual or hardcore. A fan is a fan to me.
by Lil_Doomsday on May 30, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry a fan is not a fan.
If there is someone who doesn’t know what half guard is, they’re not going to be able to appreciate the nuances of the ground control.
There is a difference between what knowledgeable hardcore fans, and less knowledgeable casual fans find interesting. It’s not elitist, it comes with the territory of knowing what’s going on.
by Doc Martin 28 on May 30, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
A fan is a fan
A person does not have to know more then the next person to be a fan. You could flip thru the channels and see your first mma match ever like it and that my friend makes them a fan.
That same fan....
Will enjoy different parts and different fights than other MMA fans. Someone mentioned a casual baseball fan as opposed to a hardcore one. A hardcore fan will enjoy a pitchers duel way more than a casual fan And that casual fan would enjoy a sloppy 10-8 game that makes the hardcore fan cringe.
Of course MMA draws fans of all kinds, but there are plenty of crossover boxing fans that can’t respect any type of grappling strategy. If they were hardcore fans they’d enjoy the position battles more, and not hope for Griffin vs Bonnar every time they watch.
by Doc Martin 28 on May 30, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
BLOODY ELBOW IS ELITIST!!!!
I write about basketball players with Ridiculous Upside. I know you'll love it.
by Scott Schroeder on May 30, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
We struck again!
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Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I could appreciate the wrestling and avoiding-danger attitude. I was also disappointed in the fight. I also consider myself a hardcore fan.
Honestly, you might need to clarify, because I find this distinction you just made confusing.
by judonerd on May 30, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hardcore vs. Casual fans - what matters and what can be done about it
Purists (such as myself) need to get over some of our prejudices as well. The fact of the matter is, for MMA to grow as a sport, what I call the “watchability” needs to be improved.
Like it or not, the today’s casual fan is potentially tomorrows fanatic…or purist. NFL purists may love a defensive battle with a 5-3 final score, but the reality is the majority of fans won’t watch that or a regular basis – it just doesn’t appeal to them. Look at ways the NFL and NBA have increased the “fan friendliness” of their games over the last 30+ years with their various rule changes.
Just as fighters must evolve or fade, so must MMA in general if the sport is going to continue its growth. Although some rules changes may be needed to increase the “watchability,” the problem can be largely resolved without any changes to the Uniform Rules.
by BigDNotDallas on May 30, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
the easy answer..... knee's to a grounded opponant ;)
knee’s to a grounded opponent ;)
by Danthemmaman on May 30, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Great gameplan by Rashad
He wanted to neutralize rampage in the stand-up and thats exact what he did. Right up until got dropped in the third rd i thought he would get through the fight unscathed.
I know it wasn’t the most exciting fight but i cant help but be impressed by the way he implemented his gameplan, and i think if it had been a 5 rounder rashad would have pounded him out at some point
It was definitely the best gameplan, in my opinion.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
No one is talking about how crisp Rashad’s striking was, which was very nice and let him set up the takedowns at will. The way Rashad threw those quick jabs followed by a body shot and followed it up with a takedown was a thing of beauty, it brought tears to my eyes. Bas Rutten would have been proud.
"If your going to come on then come on!" - Harold Howard
What I found most interesting
wasRashad’s stance. He KNEW Rampage wouldn’t kick higher than Rashad’s legs, so he went almost into a wrestling stance, allowing him to stay far, far out of Rampage’s range, but also allowing himself to be in perfect position to initiate a takedown. If he tries that with anyone who throws a flying knee or even a body kick, he’s toast.
But he knew Rampage wouldn’t, and used that to his advantage. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone in MMA come so close to a wrestling stance before.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
by duck on May 30, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I only found round 2 boring
Round 1 had that nice right hand by Rashad that stumbled Rampage. Plus that great setup for a takedown was great to watch.
Round 2 was mostly clinching against the cage.
Round 3 had Rampage almost ending it and Rashad getting up and finally using some effective ground and pound
Still I could understand if someone found it boring. Not every fight can be Garcia-Jung
ugh Garcia Jung
Saw it today for the first time – I was so underwhelmed. What terrible boxing. Thrilling because it was so crazy, but I literally think you could find better punches thrown at your local high school.
Suprise!
Some people found that fight to be sloppy.
I know I wanted one of those guys to get even remotely crisp and technical so they could EASILY end the fight.
I commend their willingness to throw everything into the fight, but even a small bit of technique would have won that fight for either guy.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
Hardcore fans can appreciate the way in which this article was able to out wrestle their patience, and they can even look at the way this article clinched with their patience as a means to avoid being pummeled with power. Casual fans, on the other hand, viewed this article with a disappointing attitude, and that’s to be expected.
by DirtyML on May 30, 2010 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
LOL
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Any talk poopooing the cage is misguided
Rashad probably does the same exact thing against the ropes and then gets repositioned in the center. People should really be criticizing Rampage for fighting smarter.
Rashad fought a fabulous fight
leland's friends suck!
because I had a bunch of casual fans in my living room (including gasp actual GIRLS) and every single person was on the edge of their seat for the main event.
The only really “boring” fight for me was Kim’s inability to mount a reasonable offense on the ground.
Get rid of the ramp!
by ihateemo on May 30, 2010 4:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I’m apparently in a void of casual fan interest here in the Midwest.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Congrats on having GIRLS there. Now what are these “girls” you speak of. As a fan of MMA they are completely foreign to me.
R.I.P Paul Gray (#2)
by Earl Montclair on May 30, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This might be the worst comment I have ever read.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Really? Hardly.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
Kim mounted serious offense on the ground… if you can recognize BJJ when you see it. More active and interesting than Rashad’s strategy of leaning and punching Page in the knee.
Kim was fighting Amir Sodallah
Rashad was fighting Rampage Jackson.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Amir came to fight. Kim came to grapple.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Also please check out SBnation's Red Bulls blog @ www.onceametro.com
by Matthew Roth on May 30, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
this MMA
not Ultimate Grapple Championships!!! Yellow CARDS and RING ROPES IMMEDIATELY!!!
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Screw that
They should just electrify the fence. Enough to hurt, but not enough to KO someone. Really increase the sense of urgency in the clinch game.
Nice.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on May 30, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I can "recognize BJJ"
And Kim grappled for position superbly, he just never did anything resembling damage or coming close to finishing the fight.
Nice move where he had Sadollah’s arm wrapped around his face though – wish he’d done more than throw a few blows.
Get rid of the ramp!
Evans will move on to battle Mauricio “Shogun” Rua in a match-up that is somewhat intriguing due to the fact it’ll be five rounds and a disparity in styles with the added danger of Shogun’s underrated BJJ ground game.
This fight should be fun. I have Shogun winning this by TKO. I think you’ll see Rashad take Shogun down at will, but Shogun’s BJJ is impressive enough where he should be able to sweep or get back to his feet, where eventually he will end up catching Rashad and getting on top. When Shogun is on top, unlike Rampage, he’ll end up finishing Rashad.
Agreed...
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Rashad wins this. The route to victory is to bull Shogun into the fence and wear him out there. I’m pretty sure he can gas Shogun over 2 rounds of clinch work against the fence, and work his way toward a decision or late TKO.
by Michael Rome on May 30, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s mainly why it’s interesting, that and if Shogun can show up with good cardio.. whether or not Rashad gets tired from all the clinch work and takedowns. I actually love the match-up.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Bring it to the UFC
Bring the yellow cards from Pride to the UFC!!!!!
Its nice to see cooler heads prevailing...
in the comments section today.
Rashad fought a smart, hard fight that Rampage was unable to do anything about.
One thought, I think Dana should stop declaring any given fight’s winner will get the next title shot. It seems to that recent history has shown that those fights result in conservative victories and I would assume its partly because of what is on the line.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
One thought, I think Dana should stop declaring any given fight’s winner will get the next title shot. It seems to that recent history has shown that those fights result in conservative victories and I would assume its partly because of what is on the line.
This brings up an interesting point. Kos and Rashad did the same thing. Granted, it was smart game planning and absolutely the right thing to do to secure a victory. I think what it shows more than anything is that both Kos and Rashad will be at significant disadvantages in their upcoming title fights……What I really think is that they will both get manhandled, Rashad will probably get the worst of the two beatings.
R.I.P Paul Gray (#2)
by Earl Montclair on May 30, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Off-Topic
Rampage goes from UFC 114 one night, to the Coca-Cola 600 the next day.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
The worst part for him...
is going to be having to relive this fight over and over during this press tour. His fame is built on his fighting and people are going to ask him about this fight, repeatedly. Maybe it will light a fire under him.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
At the hooters I was at, the crowd was pretty mixed for Rampage and Rashad. It wasn’t quite as one sided as it seems to be at the events with people booing Rashad so much. He got plenty of cheers from fans, as did Rampage.
I didn’t have a problem with the fight, it went how I would have expected it for Rashad to get a win. Standing and banging with Rampage would have been stupid for him to try. As long as he is trying to finish him as he uses his wrestling to control him, I see no issue with his style. And considering the amount of times Herb broke them up when they were leaning on the fence no one should be complaining too much; he even broke them a few times when Rashad was actually in the middle of hitting Rampage’s body.
"A black belt only covers two inches of your ass. You have to cover the rest."
WHICH HOOTERS?
i was at the one in east brunswick and yeah the crowd was mixed as well. i mean, there were some straight up biker looking guys screaming for rashad even. and yeah i was glad herb dean helped to force the actions cuz if rashad had his way the whole time thefight would have been slower than it was..
AS FAR AS SHOGUN - RASHAD
Shogun will destroy Rashad (as he would have Rampage as well). Rashad might be able to prolong the inevitable a few minutes longer than Rampage could have, given that Rua is much more susceptible to being taken down (and more vulnerable to wrestlers in general) than Machida. Rua would likely fall to an elite wrestler, but Evans is not an elite wrestler.
Rampage was exposed as the old-school one-dimensional fighter I have long said he is, and his failure to evolve is even more glaringly obvious now. Evans is a natural middleweight, and I suspect he will finally move down to 185 (where he belongs) after his next loss (i.e. his next fight) and become a top 3 MW (after Anderson moves up).
Mark my words, by mid- to late 2011, Rampage will have assumed his rightful place as essentially a glorified gatekeeper. Neither Evans nor Rampage really has much more than a puncher’s chance against any of the 5 best UFC LHWs – Rua, Anderson, Machida, Lil’ Nog, JJones. Lawal would likely beat either Rashad or Rampage as well (and also give Rua, Lil’ Nog and maybe Anderson fits). Even Mousasi would take Rampage (and Evans too if he chose to stand with him).
However, as we saw a sample of in the still-raw Jason Brilz (and much like at WW and HW), there is soon to be a group of fighters with very high level functional wrestling at LHW (that is, MMA-centric wrestling), and JJones will be the vanguard of that movement. But until that time, the top Brazilians will continue to dominate.
If u think That Jason Brilz can give Nog-lite fits
but Rashad can’t, I don’t know what to tell you.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
History proves Brilz can give "Nog-lite" fits...but he still lost.
And Brilz is a better functional wrestler than Evans is.
But I will agree that Rashad could probably successfully take down Little Nog, Rua and Anderson at times, but his functional (MMA-centric) wrestling, while good, is not elite. Ultimately, they would prevail against Rashad. He would be unable to consistently take Machida or JJones down.
Rampage on the other hand would probably elicit a 1st or 2nd round stoppage by any of those I listed, except perhaps Lawal who might have to settle for the UD…
by BigDNotDallas on May 31, 2010 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Brilz is a better wrestler than Evans now?, wow people are just reaching like crazy to downplay. And the reason why Rashad lost to Machida was because he forgot about his wrestling he’s clearly learned his lesson and i’d pick him in the rematch.
by Nightwhistler on May 31, 2010 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions
1 Machida would win the rematch
no way evans shoots in from as far as he was and finishes the takedown as quick as machida is.
2. He said functional wrestler. I would agree with him. Rashad had a great shot, but past that didn’t show us phenomenal wrestling. Brilz was pretty much using wrestling exclusively and he put on a clinic.
Who says he’s shoot from far, he’d clinch with him like Shogun did and use the cage to wear him down and get the takedown. Also all the props to Brilz for his fight against Nog but Rashad has been running clinic’s on guys at LHW for awhile now that is nothing new to him.
by Nightwhistler on May 31, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
funny
Rashad has never shown top control. Rashad gets the takedown, guys get up, he takes them down again. Brilz displayed but better transitions and control. Hence a more multi faceted game.
2, Rashad’s clinch is not equal to shoguns. Shoguns clinch is dangerous due to striking and takedown ability. Rashad would not want to clinch with Machida, he’d get worked.
IDK what fight of rashads you’ve been watching, but it’s not like he has greco throws. Machida has sweeps. The main reason Rashad was landing his double legs on quinton from out of his typical range (bent arm distance) by exploding. Rashad’s skillset does not translate to machida. Nor is rashad a better wrestler then Brilz. For you to even try to argue that in any aspect is riddiculous. The only thing I may give you is Rashad has a better shot, and thats debatable.
Ring or Cage?
Which would you have rather seen..the way it went or Rampage diving through the ropes to avoid Evans’ wrestling?
We’ve all known Evan’s gameplan for over a year. If Rampage couldn’t come up with something in that amount of time, he had no business even fighting that night,
That’s the thing.
I had a conversation about how someone wanted the ring back, which is where my full circle comment originates from. Remember those days when people clamored for the cage over the ring, and now some fans are like “Man, Rashad couldn’t have done that shit in a ring, bring it back!” Kind of flabbergasted me.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 30, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless he got Rampage into the corner...
and then there would have been even less of a chance of circling out.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
Exactly. I think the ring is better for Rampage in the striking capacity though. Whether or not he’d actually do well is another question.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 31, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
If Rashad Evans beats Shogun
the interwebz will implode…. I’m a fan of Shogun, and he will be the favorite, but I can’t help but hope Evans puts him away, just to see the anger it will generate.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Lol
Probably the funnest part of being an Evans fan. Is whenever a fight of his comes up, there is a deluge of comments about how much he sucks and will get the crap knocked out of him because of any number of flaws your mind can think of fact based or not.
Then Rashad goes out and wins and you get to hear how he didn’t deserve to win/shouldn’t have won etc.
As a fan of both fighters it will be hard to watch but it will still be a very competitive fight between two of the best lhw in the world.
I too think Rashad would shine as a middleweight, at 205 all he will do is hold back Bones from his true potential…until Jones outgrows 205 of course.
by The Blackula on May 30, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah if Rashad beats Shogun it'll be Stanky Leg Remix time.
Then Shogun will beat Machida and the 3 of them will continue to pass the belt around like a hot potato.
by Polyhedron on May 30, 2010 7:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Shogun will sub Rashad
With some crazy kneebar/heelhook deal like he caught Randleman in where he tried to rip his leg out of his hip. Rashad also won’t have his speed advantage which will make him super tentative to trade
Rashad let Machida’s mystique psyche him out and would be way more competitive in a rematch imo, he never implemented his natural skillset and tried out his newfound striking after stopping Chuck and Forrest. I am still surprised that people follow Evans to the ground when stunned, even Lyoto had enough sense to let him get back to the feet and finish him there. Rashad like Velasquez and A-train Simpson are hard headed wrestlers who can outwork you for position even when on queer street.
by The Blackula on May 30, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Any allure that Rashad had with fans was lost after his piss poor victory over Thiago Silva.
by Polyhedron on May 30, 2010 7:07 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Oddly enough I am a fan of Rashad due to the pure irrational and illogical hate he gets from people.
He turns once rational mma fans into pissy girlfriends .
by The Blackula on May 30, 2010 7:12 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I can agree with this. The amount of stroking Rampage was getting here before the fight had me scratching my head. So much that I wondered if there was something I was missing in the spread the betting lines were showing.
If anything people are pissed less about the fight and more that they were wrong about Rashad vs Rampage.
I thought it was a good fight and Rashad seem to have the perfect gameplan, perfectly executed until round 3 where he got careless and tried to KO himself on Rampage’s knee.
To be honest, I like Rashad’s chances against Shogun as well.
Oddly enough I am a fan of Rashad due to the pure irrational and illogical hate he gets from people.
LOL
I am the same way. I can’t help but root for guys that internet fans despise.
At least in the short term.
I don’t really like Rashad, but I liked him alot compared to Rampage…especially because of the irrational Rampage fandom going on the last couple of days and weeks.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
I’m surprised that more people aren’t screaming for five round non-title fights after this event. This is the best fight in recent memory to illustrate that point.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
Doubt that would have changed a damn thing
Rampage was gassed and Rashad would have simply executed this game plan over a longer time period.
If anything, 5 rounds may have made the fight more boring rather than more exciting with even less chance of seeing a finish, as opposed to a decision.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
My point is that after this fight, I don’t feel like I know which is the better fighter. I know that Rashad executed a good gameplan but I can’t help but feel like it was categorically similar to watching somebody execute a great gameplan in a two minute fight: true, one guy won but I don’t feel like enough time elapsed for much evaluation/analysis to be done.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on May 30, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The why do you think a longer time frame would actually change anything?
Seriously, whatever the time frame, fighters will / should gameplan and try and economize their energy usage.
If someone gasses in three rounds, as apparently Ramapage did, why would things get better with 2 more rounds?
If you didn’t like Rashad’s tempered game plan, why would your think it would be different over 2 more rounds?
Frankly, arbitrarily adding two more rounds to me would probably make the overall fight more boring as fighters conserve themselves for a longer effort.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
I strongly doubt that
The fight ‘just’ started to speed up towards the later part of the third round. a fourth round would have continued with the third round’s momentum and the chances of seeing a finish would be heightened
I seriously doubt that.
Energy wise, fighters are starting to run out of steam. Its been a while, but someone on the staff here, Fagan maybe, did a little study and I want to say it showed that finishes were pretty rare in the 4 and 5 rounds.
I could be wrong, but it makes sense that the later your go the less likely a pair of fighters are to have the energy left to pull of a big finish.
Dude. It's Anderson Silva.
If he gives a damn he will end Sonnen’s night by either sub or KO.
-SSreporters
By Monday morning Chael Sonnen will be pissing out of his neck.
-Also SSreporters
I’m surprised by this reaction. I thought the fight was really enjoyable.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
The fight was enjoyable unless you bought into the Rampage is superior than Rashad in everyway hype that alot of people on here did.
The fact is the only fans who seem to have a problem with Rashad’s win are the hardcore fans that said he sucked in the first place. Last night when Evans was announced as the winner the fans cheered him that’s after he was booe’d heavily on the weight ins.
So this myth about Rashad losing allure with the fans is just that, the guy did exactly what alot of us thought he’d do. Use his speed and wrestling to wear down Jackson and controll the fight it was a beautiful gameplan. Yet instead of praise all we get is a bunch of mma writers and fans mad about it when it was no secret how this fight would end unless of course you were one of the people annointing Rampage the superior fighter.
by Nightwhistler on May 30, 2010 11:42 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
no
no your wrong im telling you right now not even one person in china or japan other than hardcore mma fans have heard of the stun gun. only in korea is he a name. So that comment is just false and wrong period. and people in latin america also get pissed off about that so why not write mexico or korea its even lesser letters so it might be easier to type for this incompetent reporter.
Actually, you’re wrong.
So very wrong. Plenty of Japanese fans know who Dong Hyun Kim is… considering he fought a bulk of his career in DEEP. Instead of being a rude asshole and calling me incompetent, you should probably look in the mirror. The comments aren’t for thoughtless jerks, they’re for thoughtful discussion… which is exactly what your comments aren’t.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 31, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
The whole fight was a monumental disappointment because Rampage looked out of fighting shape and he didn’t mount much of an offense and Rashad did a little as possible to win. These types of fights with a lack of action are a detriment to the UFC, however if Rampage can commit to fighting for the UFC seriously I believe he is capable of making some noise in the LHW division.
Fear is temporary regret is for ever.
asdasd
leland you my friend are an idiot i stated only hardcore fans know dhk and guess what fans of deep are hardcore fans not casual fans. The Japanese market isn’t gonna suddenly open up because of DHK. not in a million years. but the Korean market will. OR are you so stupid your implying hes also good for the Indian, Thailand, Singapore, Hong Kong, Vietnamese market which also go underneath your stupid umbrella term of ASIA. stop back tracking your just digging yourself a bigger hole and take a couple of journalism classes. or you can just take your head out of your ass and admit your wrong.
The Greg Jackson Special
Rampage should have fought the way he fought in R3 from the start, and that’s on him. Other fighters need to get the takedown ability and defence that Greg Jackson’s camp has sooner rather than later and that’s on them. The UFC needs to incentivise (is that even a word?) exciting risk-rewarding fighting in the meantime and that’s on them. They ruthlessly cut fighters who lose and that encourages low risk strategies that are winning but entirely unthrilling. I personally found the fight lame and frustrating (a year of hype and we get that? It was Rasad/silva all over again), but I don’t know quite where to place the blame. I will however say that I’ll probably skip Rashad’s fight’s as I’ve started to skip GSP’s, because I know what’s going to happen and I know I won’t be overly entertained. My time is valuable man I simply can’t afford to watch these strategies implemented when I can watch something like Nog/Brilz. But don’t worry guys no matter which side is correct the fact that there is discussion means enough people are not happy, and things will change one way or the other.
by jwalker on May 31, 2010 11:27 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Plenty of people were happy with UFC 114, it’s just alot of hardcore fans who didn’t like Rashad in the first place and thought he didn’t belong in the cage with Rampage that are mad.
Nothing is going to change, Evans fought a great fight and the fact that people keep trying to claim that it was boring just shows ignorance and bias. This is a sport and the guy with the best strategy wins you want to watch something else pick a new sport me i’ll keep watching great fighters like Evans and GSP do their thing.

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