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Matt Lindland, Tim Sylvia: Two Fading Legends of MMA Fight Tonight

Is this how fans will remember Tim Sylvia?

It's not often that we get to see two athletes who were not long ago at the very top of the sport reduced to fighting in minor league promotions on the same night. Both men spent the majority of the last decade at the highest levels of the sport, all while being hated by fans and promoters alike.

Matt Lindland is more than just one of the least-liked fighters in MMA, he was also one of the first Olympic medalists to enter the UFC. He was a lynch pin of Team Quest with Randy Couture and Dan Henderson, and as such did as much as anyone to establish Greco-Roman wrestling as one of the most successful styles in MMA. Even after he was exiled from the UFC over sponsorship issues, he went on to achieve considerable glory in other promotions, fighting Rampage Jackson to a stand-still in 2006 and challenging Fedor Emelianenko himself in 2007. 

But the last two years have been hard on Lindland. He suffered a grisly KO loss to Vitor Belfort and was choked out by Jacare Souza in his Strikeforce debut. Tonight he faces Kevin Casey, an opponent he has little if any respect for as a person if not a fighter, as he told Ben Fowlkes:

Kevin Casey doesn't have a lot of MMA experience, but what have you see of him on video?

I've seen a ridiculous rap video that he should be embarrassed of. I definitely saw that. I saw him fight against an experienced fighter over in Japan when he fought [Ikuhisa] Minowa. He looked good in that fight. And I've seen him take on some guys who are B-level fighters. The only A-level fighter he's fought is Minowa, and he lost, but he looked good in that fight. He's obviously got some skills and he's a talented athlete, but he should stick to fighting and really hone that craft because the rap thing is just ridiculous and silly. He needs to stop doing that. It's embarrassing for him, and someone should tell him.

Did you know that one of the things he's known for is being buddies with Spencer Pratt, the reality TV show guy?

Another embarrassing thing for him. He's rapping and his claim to fame is hanging out with Spencer Pratt? I mean, I actually feel sorry for the guy. Does he not have any friends who can give him some advice? You know, someone should be there to tell him, 'Stop rapping, and stop hanging out with this guy Spencer who's a complete douchebag.' What is he doing?     

At least Lindland looks to be prepared for the fight. If he doesn't beat Casey, Father Time rather than a lack of will will be the culprit.

Which brings us to former  UFC heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia -- a man who fought for UFC gold an amazing nine times, going 6-3 in title fights and holding the title for two significant stretches. Not to mention that Big Tim also had the honor of facing Fedor, despite being crushed by The Last Emperor. But Tim apparently isn't content to wait for Father Time to erode his abilities, no he's helping things along by not training. Michael David Smith takes him to the wood shed:

You can tell a lot about an athlete by how he responds to a tough loss. You can certainly tell a lot about Tim Sylvia by the way he has responded to his tough loss to Fedor Emelianenko two years ago. And if you're a fan of Sylvia's (which I once was), he's telling you something about himself that you'd probably rather not know.

...

Basically, what we found out is that Tim Sylvia is a man who doesn't care enough to get into shape, a man not willing to put in the work to be the best, a man who would rather fight inexperienced opponents in freak shows than push himself to the point where he'd be fighting at a championship level again.

...

I'll be watching Sylvia vs. Pudzianowski on Friday night, and I'll be hoping to see some signs that Sylvia, at age 34, wants to be a great fighter again. But I'm not very optimistic. I think Sylvia has shown us with his physique that he's done trying to be great.

And even though I've been very hard on Big Tim's manager Monte Cox, for mishandling Sylvia's career, I have to think that Big Tim has had a part to play as well. Especially when he's ducking serious challenges from serious fighters like kickboxing legend Jerome Le Banner

Fans who have enjoyed rooting against Lindland and Sylvia should tune in tonight, this may be your last chance to see these once formidable athletes ply their trade in the cage.

Post your favorite Lindland and Sylvia memories in the comments. They both certainly had their share of highs and lows.

BE coverage of Moosin in Worcester

BE coverage of Strikeforce Challengers 8

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I won’t remember Sylvia as the picture above.. I’ll remember him as a boring jabber and I’ll remember how happy I was when Big Nog subbed him.

by grein on May 21, 2010 12:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I also feel like I owe Big Tim

for the huge amount of pleasure everyone I know had watching Randy Couture dismantle him.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on May 21, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

We all owe Big Tim.

MMA Aggregator - http://mma.ly

by mma.ly on May 21, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will always remember watching his arm snap

█♣█
A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z

by thetakeover on May 21, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok I'll start

Lindland — Highlights: utterly dominating the then-feared Phil Baroni twice; taking Rampage Jackson the distance and giving him a helluva fight.
Lowlights: KO’ing himself slamming Falinko Vitale.
Sylvia — Highlights: The battering he put on Cabbage, high kick KO of Tre Telligman, coming back to KO Arlovski in their 2nd fight
Lowlights: Mercer, pooping himself against Assuerio Silva

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on May 21, 2010 12:50 PM EDT reply actions  

LMAO! I forgot about the pooping himself........

My favorite Big Tim moment was when he was on “Blind Date”. So sad to watch…….

Well, that one in the center: he had a flap holster and he was in no itchin' hurry. And the one second from the left: he had scared eyes, he wasn't gonna do nothin'. But that one on the far left: he had crazy eyes. Figured him to make the first move.

by Dragon101 on May 21, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

OMG

I forgot about that one.

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by Nate Wilcox on May 21, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Ultimate Margarita!

Check out my pic a day for a year project-
Life Through My Lens

by ChillMike on May 21, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

WHAT

There better be video of this.

Get rid of the ramp!

by ihateemo on May 21, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d add Lindland’s loss to David Terrell as a lowlight.

by Hardcase on May 21, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Completely forgot about the Le Banner fight

What happened with that? That was one I was actually looking forward to watching.

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by ChillMike on May 21, 2010 12:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Sylvia apparently

wants no part of it.

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by Nate Wilcox on May 21, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a shame

An in shape Sylvia vs Le Banner in an MMA fight is pretty damn intriguing (outside of the more meaningful fights I mean)

Check out my pic a day for a year project-
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by ChillMike on May 21, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Has Tim ducked anyone previously? He has fought the who’s who of the HW division. Just because a fight doesn’t happen doesn’t mean he is ducking. Maybe the money was too low or maybe he didn’t want to go to Japan. I laugh In the face of anyone who questions his willingness to fight somebody. Say what you want about his heart or commitment but, he has always fought the people put in front of him.

That being said, my favorite memory of Tim is when he took myself and 2 of our buddies to UFC 79 and provided ringside seats directly behind Joe and Goldy. Going to my first UFC was cool, the suite atop the Mandalay Bay was unbelievable, meeting Wand, Dana, the ring girls and, the VIP parties were all cool too. The best part of the weekend was watchin him in his element on a fight weekend in Vegas. For all the hate Tim gets, there was no shortage of photo ops with fans and autograph requests. It got so bad at one point we had to run through the Mandalay Bay Casino to get to the after party in time. Even while running with some eager fans chasing, he would stop for a quick second to pose with the people who caught up with us. The low would obviously be the Mercer fight, it’s never easy to see a good friend down and out. No matter what happens tonight in his fight, I’ll still be a friend and fan til the end.

Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo

by ANance on May 21, 2010 1:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

thanks for contributing

always appreciate your contributions. It’s always a helpful reminder that Tim Sylvia is a person just like the rest of us, with friends and feelings and deserving respect.
But I have heard from multiple sources that Sylvia has been declining to fight Le Banner for a long time.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on May 21, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

again..

i’d be interested to hear what the reason is. It totally doesn’t have to be that he’s afraid of the fight. Maybe the pay he is being offered just isn’t right for him to want to take it.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com

by Brent Brookhouse on May 21, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve talked to Tim about this fight, I know he would fight him. As you said though, there is a lot that goes into setting up the fight besides wanting to fight. If Tim can win tonight maybe we will see that fight soon. If not, it’s been a fun ride and a book-worthy fighter’s life story.

Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo

by ANance on May 21, 2010 3:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Away from all the showbiz of MMA, Tim seems like a good guy. I think the combination of desperately wanting to be liked so much coupled with a string of boring fights that rankled the masses. Watching him floor AA before it was fashionable was astounding, and his knocking Ricco flat on his ass was funny. I saw Mir break his arm when I was just beginning to become an MMA fan, and the fact that he kept trying to fight despite it impressed me so much that I knew I was watching a different breed of athlete. I wish that Tim was still fighting today.

If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on May 21, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope Chuck Liddell is paying attention to this.

R.I.P Ronnie James Dio

by Earl Montclair on May 21, 2010 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Chuck's always been very smart

about staying in the good graces of the UFC. No matter how poorly he fares in the Octagon, Dana is going to take care of his boy.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on May 21, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely. I was more referring to the end of career freefall and the decline of his skills and health

R.I.P Ronnie James Dio

by Earl Montclair on May 21, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are either of these guys legends? Are either of them even “great”? Context through hindsight has not been kind, really.

Behave with confidence

by Postpubescent on May 21, 2010 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Lindland is definitely a legend, if for no other reason than being a founding member of Team Quest. Plus, for all his faults, he was highly ranked fighter for nearly a decade. He might not have deserved the #1 ranking that MMAWeekly bestowed on him after Zuffa sent him packing, but he was without a doubt a top five guy for many many years.

Sylvia …. not so much. He might have won more hardware than Lindland, but he has no accomplishments outside the cage to speak of and his UFC titles are somewhat tarnished by the fact that the UFC HW division was awful during his reign.

by Steve4192 on May 21, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lindland

I would agree is a “legend” for what he did outside of the cage/ring but he was always vastly over-rated as a fighter.

ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.

by Chris Barton on May 21, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does being a founding member of Team Quest garner legend status?

Team Quest was just an offshoot of the RAW Team, organized mostly by the Chiapperelli bros.

by Hardcharger on May 21, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

true about the RAW team

but I’d say they’re both legendary camps.

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by Nate Wilcox on May 21, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd say they're both legends

in that they’re fighters that have been much discussed for a long time and will be talked about in years to come. Not always their achievements either.
But Lindland is easily the most outspoken critic of Zuffa and Big Tim is probably the most desperate to be loved and least liked fighter in MMA history.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on May 21, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are they legend of what?

"No one wants to be defeated" Michael Jackson on MMA fights

by Eduardo Cruz on May 21, 2010 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Matt Lindland has no business complaining about people making shitty rap songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8gPYZ2P31o

If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on May 21, 2010 1:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Why did you post this? Couldn’t you have just let it be?

by TLow on May 21, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who on Earth was ever a Tim Sylvia fan? “Big TIm” has to be one of the most hated fighters of all time. Fat, boring, and one dimensional come to mind whenever I think of Tim Sylvia. I hope he gets KTFO’d Ray Mercer style.

Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is. I get more stunts and props than Bruce Willis- Guru

by Dr. Octagon on May 21, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Tim Sylvia:
-Highlight: Having his arm snapped against Frank Mir and then vehemently protesting the stoppage. Really showed a fighter’s spirit.
-Lowlight: Being stripped of the UFC title for testing positive for steroids.

Matt Lindland:
-Highlight: For me it was his fight with Fedor. Fedor did have the upper hand for the majority of the fight and he did end up submitting Matt in the first round, but Matt was able dent the armor of the all-mighty Fedor, leaving Fedor with blood streaming down his face while his arm was being raised in victory.
-Lowlight: Being viciously KO’d by Vitor. I think this signified the end of his ability to compete at the upper echelons of the sport.

by KAN0 on May 21, 2010 2:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Sylvia
Highlight: Landing the most head shots in UFC history against Cabbage
Lowlight: Arlovski/Sylvia 3, The Mercer incident

Lindland
Highlight: This election commercial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p_stp7GxHY
Lowlight: Having a movie made about how great you are and then getting flatlined by Vitor Belfort

Keep Firing, Assholes!

BROCKLESNAR's #1 Fan.

by Ubernoober on May 21, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Sylvia gets a lot of undeserved hate for being boring. The majority of his career he was a wrecking machine. Late in the game he started to pick up a much safer style but on the whole he actually has far more exciting fights than boring.

Also, anyone who thinks Lindland wasn’t one of the absolute top 185’ers in the game for a long stretch is out of their mind.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com

by Brent Brookhouse on May 21, 2010 2:29 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

as a matter of fact...

Assuerio Silva (when he was ill), the third fight with Arlovski (a product of both men more than just tim), Jeff Monson (in a fight that everyone knew coming in was an ugly style match-up), and Brandon Vera (who we’ve seen be “boring” in several fights).

That’s 4 fights in his career that I remember as boring.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com

by Brent Brookhouse on May 21, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I couldn’t agree more.

Sylvia was an absolute pleasure to watch up until he won the title the second time. After that, he started fighting safe to protect his precious, but the first 3/4 of his career were dynamite.

And yes, anyone who can’t acknowledge that Lindland was an elite fighter for a long, long time is just hating.

by Steve4192 on May 21, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lindland

was never very good. He was a bad style match up for a few guys, which inflated his “worth” in many peoples eyes.

ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.

by Chris Barton on May 21, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

?

how on Earth do you back this up? Watch his war with Rampage again. Lindland gave Quinton everything he could handle.

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by Nate Wilcox on May 21, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah..

he was a bad style match-up for wrestlers because he was an olympic level wrestler, his controlling top game made him a bad match-up for submission guys, and he was a bad match-up for strikers because he could get inside, lock up and take it down.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 21, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lindland was very, very good at his best.

And early in Sylvia’s UFC career it would have sounded insane to say he was boring. A lot of newer fans who saw him in some boring decisions aren’t aware that his first seven UFC fights lasted a total of about 15 minutes

by MichaelDavidSmith on May 21, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even later in his career. The couture fight was dramatic at the very least, he was aggressive and tried like hell to finish Nogueira in a hell of a dramatic fight.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com

by Brent Brookhouse on May 21, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

That’s the fight I am thinking of that inflates Lindlands status higher than it deserves. I think he is a bad stylistic match up for Rampage, I think any Greco guy would be. I think that’s why the Hendo fight was such a war as well.

I honestly, so far anyway, feel that Lindland gets this bump from the weird “banned from ZUFFA because they want to protect Franklin” nonsense.

ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.

by Chris Barton on May 21, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look closely at what has happened to Lindland and Sylvia, Anderson Silva. This is your fate once your and reflexes go.

Keep Firing, Assholes!

BROCKLESNAR's #1 Fan.

by Ubernoober on May 21, 2010 2:42 PM EDT reply actions  

War

Chael Mary. I can only pray Chael makes Anderson’s rep go the way of the dinosaurs.

by OceanMachine15 on May 21, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

A. Silva will retire long before his skills erode.
He’s already stated he’s nearing retirment.

Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on May 21, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m suprised no one has mentioned Lindland’s lowlight as denying he tapped out to the legendary Murilo Bustamante. But it’s a great feather in Bustamante’s cap, as he ended up tapping Lindland twice in one night.

by RagingNoodles on May 21, 2010 3:21 PM EDT reply actions  

It’s funny, because I’m a pretty new MMA fan, so in a way it’s tough for me to understand all the hate Tim Sylvia gets. Nothing I’ve seen of the guy explains why people hate him so much. He got popped for steroids (another low-point), like quite a few guys, but didn’t bother making any excuses about it or fight it and was at least honest about what he’d done, rather than come up with a half-baked sob story. His last UFC fight he hurt Nogueira really bad, dominated him through two rounds, then got caught by a submission, but that’s hardly something to be ashamed of. For all the talk about what a shitty, embarassment of a fighter he was, he did give Nogueira a pretty good run for his money. And his post fight interview was pretty classy, as well.

by TLow on May 21, 2010 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Tim was an exciting up-and-comer. He had great KOs, and gave a tough performance against a prime Mir, refusing to tap though his arm was broken. He lost to AA but was granted a rematch (after an awful fight against Assuerio Silva, in which he admitted to pooping himself), where he won by KO. In their third fight, the hotly-disputed rubber match, they both refused to engage. Andrei had a broken femur, but nothing explained Tim. Basically, when he finally won the belt, he wanted to hold on to it at all costs. He had a dreadful fight against Monson, where he completely dominated but never finished Jeff. It was much the same criticism hurled against GSP or Silva right now, but he didn’t have the incredible skill set the others do as a defense. Then he fought Randy Couture, the UFC’s Hero. He was a villain automatically going into this fight. Then he got tooled for 25 minutes, getting dropped with the first punch buy someone who’s never had a clean KO. He made excuses about his back being hurt after and received a tide of boos from the crowd. His fight against Vera was atrocious, leaning on the smaller fighter for 15min. Then he was humiliated by Fedor and Ray Mercer (a fight for which he showed up almost 50lbs overweight).

If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on May 21, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve always felt kind of sorry for Tim….he just wants to be loved. ;)

Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on May 21, 2010 3:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Picks

What is everyone’s picks for tonight?

I’ve got Sylvia winning and Lindland loss by submission.

I'm from Canada, and they think I'm slow eh!

by Simboy on May 21, 2010 3:54 PM EDT reply actions  

With hindsight the second Baroni/Lindland fight should’ve been for the vacant UFC middleweight title but Busta was holding things up before he jumped ship.

Not that I condone facism or any ism for that matter. Isms are in my opinion, not good. A person shouldn't believe in an ism, he should believe in himself.

I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". Good point there, after all he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. Wouldn't change the fact I have to bum rides off of people.

by Sam Cupitt on May 22, 2010 1:40 AM EDT reply actions  

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