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Strikeforce, Showtime Remain Disappointing in the Development and Promotion of New Stars

Why was Lyle Beerbohm vs. Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro shelved and never shown? Photo by Jeff Cain, MMAWeekly.com

Strikeforce's Heavy Artillery event on Saturday evening in St. Louis went off without a problem. The main event battle between Alistair Overeem and Brett Rogers delivered results, and the rest of the card was far from the lackluster performances we saw at Strikeforce: Nashville. Even though there was some complaining from fans regarding the quality of some of the opponents on the main card, everything worked out perfectly, and storylines have been created for a follow-up event that many fans will be looking forward to watching.

Unfortunately, I'm still a little perturbed. With the broadcast ending earlier than their allotted time slot on Showtime, I was hoping that Strikeforce and Showtime would be gracious to the hardcore fans watching their event by airing the Lyle Beerbohm vs. Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro undercard bout. Not only had Coker stated during the week that both men would be considered in the mix at lightweight, but both men had waited a very long time to fight as the promotion worked out match-ups and the title picture. What's the deal?

Luckily, someone has tackled the same issue. Zach Arnold transcribed a discussion between Sherdog radio personalities Jordan Breen and TJ DeSantis during their Beatdown After the Bell show regarding my exact complaints, and some interesting questions came from the discussion:

TJ DE SANTIS: "I don’t understand why this promotion doesn’t push I think a lot of their prospects, they refuse to show prelims. … They could have shown the Shaolin Ribeiro and Lyle Beerbohm which I want to see and I think a lot of people want to see to see how and why it was scored the way it was. I mean, the UFC obviously has a much stronger brand, but that brand I think is strong, Jordan, because they promote their fighters within, they make stars out of their fighters, and those stars obviously are the face of the promotion. I think, yeah, the UFC brand alone is always going to outsell Strikeforce, but Strikeforce I mean doesn’t have the names, the poster boys, the stars really that the UFC does because they don’t push them correctly."

JORDAN BREEN: "I think it’s a combination of that and the fact that is a product now being led by Showtime, whose familiarity is in boxing and one of the things we touched on recently with Strikeforce, not this card but their last effort in Nashville, is the fact that Showtime, the way they do their boxing product, Showtime are always kind of the #2 to HBO but the reason they are able to thrive in the boxing environment is they’ve always been very keen to really catch and scoop up the good fights that slip through the cracks. When HBO wasn’t particularly interested in Castillo/Corrales for whatever, they were there to scoop it up. Same with the Vasquez/Marquez trilogy, same for years during one of the things they’ve always done from the 90s right up until now, even back in the late 80s actually, was scooping up European title fights with world titlists in Europe. They were really, you know, home of the well-skilled but less marketable boxers before they became superstars. Bernard Hopkins before he became unified Middleweight champion of the world in supreme fashion, always fought on Showtime. So they were always very good at scooping up all the pieces and stuff that HBO didn’t want in idiocy or just overlooked and that doesn’t exist with MMA. It’s not independent promoters making really good fights and then you can just rush to the scene and choose to air it. Doesn’t work that way. So, they’re trying to hand-pick and craft a product that they really don’t know a whole lot about and that’s why we end up with Kevin Randleman on cards like this and why we have an inability to develop prospects fruitfully and why we don’t get to see prospects on cards. And why really the only major talking points we’re going to get tonight are: Can Alistair Overeem beat Fedor Emelianenko and how good can you know Jacare or Roger Gracie be? It’s less instructive and there’s less of a narrative coming out of any Strikeforce event than a UFC event partially because of what you mentioned. It’s not just that they don’t sell the product well-enough, it’s that there’s never a sense that things are leading to something larger, that the product is put together in a magnetic, compelling way that builds on its own…"

I asked myself the same questions in the aftermath of Heavy Artillery. Why isn't Strikeforce promoting some of these other fighters in their organization on the event's undercard and showing some of these battles? Is it simply because Strikeforce: Challengers is the home of the up-and-comers? If that's the case, why was a battle between two very solid lightweight fighters who could become contenders shelved to the undercard of a major event and had no chance to ever be aired?

Perhaps Scott Coker doesn't see any value in Beerbohm or Ribeiro in the long run with the promotion. Both men have styles that don't historically appeal to a casual fanbase, and with the talk that Beerbohm is looking for a way out -- maybe Coker and Showtime weren't willing to give him that face time. If that's the case, it actually makes sense.

Strikeforce_heavy_artillery_button_medium

Star-divide

This doesn't solve the problem of Strikeforce failing in promoting their brand. While their name is out there in the world and gaining some steam, that's all it is... a name. What ultimately attracts fans to watch a promotion like Strikeforce, a promotion that's living in an era in which a lot of casual fans understand MMA as the UFC, is the fighters.

Arnold brings up a good point in that the UFC has a network like Spike to help promote their brand weekly, and with the UFC Unleashed shows airing like continuous marathons on the network every other day -- it's no wonder the brand has saturated the minds of casual fans interested in the sport. Strikeforce will never have that commitment from Showtime, and in reality -- the UFC is unique in having that sort of deal. It truly separates them from everyone.

So, why is Bellator more successful right now at creating buzz our their fighters? And if you doubt they haven't created buzz, you're wrong. I've actually had a lot of friends talk to me about "This Bellator event" on Fox Sports Net, and how they look forward to it every week. Why is this working versus the higher quality battles that Strikeforce produces?

In my mind, their weekly presence and the quality of the fights has really helped their viewership. Adding a few names that are appealing to hardcore fans with one major recognizable fighter that appeals to casual fans like Roger Huerta has helped, and the fact that the events are weekly gives a lot of sports fans something to look forward to on Thursday nights. Furthermore, they can promote their stars and other events on a weekly basis, something Strikeforce seems to procrastinate at doing effectively.

Breen and DeSantis touch on the differences between Bellator and Strikeforce, but the major focus came down on Showtime and how they promote the product. Ultimately, I think they're right. Showtime doesn't know mixed martial arts, and they don't seem to be in tune with the fanbase or what the fanbase is used to seeing. Does anyone think it's a coincidence that most websites have a menu either on the left or top of the website? No, it's because research-based focus groups determined 90% of users are used to that style of navigation. The same applies here. 90% of MMA fans are spoiled with the production values the UFC has pushed to the fans, and they are accustomed to seeing undercard action when it permits.

Some would say that's a bad thing because there's no innovation, but innovation is always there. The problem here is that the model the UFC is using works, and Strikeforce isn't following suit.

What does Strikeforce need to do in order to create a better product that promotes these fighters? Personally, I'd rid the promotion of the idea of bringing in local promoters to fill the undercard. Fill the undercard with lower-tier fighters or up-and-coming prospects. Strikeforce has enough to fill a Challengers' card here and there, and then try to convince Showtime to allow some airing of the quicker fights. It'll market guys the promotion may use later on a major card, and it could actually open up more options for them down the road.

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This is where Strikeforce has no hope of ever reaching the same level of UFC in promotion. Strikeforce do nothing to promote their Fighters apart from a few adverts leading up to the event. The UFC has TUF, UFC Unleashed and re-runs. People hate on TUF but it is a nice platform to promote the fighters or promote a rivalry ala Rampage and Rashad. The UFC also has the vault which is key in allowing fans to watch undercards that are not aired. Strikeforce don’t even record the prelims do they?

by The Omaplatapus on May 18, 2010 11:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, it’s sort of a shitty deal for Strikeforce because it seems like Showtime isn’t willing to give them the promotional assets to really ramp up the promotion of their rising stars. I suppose Challengers is their answer to that, but it’d be nice to have something weekly to keep in the minds of fans.

But not showing preliminary fights when there is time left seems ridiculous to me, and a major mistake.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

You know, they could easily use the undercard to put on a Challengers type of show on Showtime. The production is already paid for, so it would just be a matter of the airtime.

by BJJDenver on May 18, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

In other words, imagine a Challenger program that was headlined by Shaolin vs Fancypants. I think most of us would be pretty excited for that.

by BJJDenver on May 18, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely.

They could have a “Strikeforce: The Unseen Tapes” or something like that and showcase the best undercards fights that were never shown on TV. Of course that would involve filming the prelims, which they seem unwilling to do.

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly, which is why I’m a bit surprised they put the fight on the Heavy Artillery undercard… where it was NEVER going to be aired.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Both men have styles that don’t historically appeal to a casual fanbase, and with the talk that Beerbohm is looking for a way out — maybe Coker and Showtime weren’t willing to give him that face time.

This is possible. But since they offered Beerbottom the Thompson fight right afterwards and they aren’t going to put Thompson on an undercard it seems less likely. Then again maybe they got things settled between when the fight was booked and when it took place.

The Strikeforce fighters really need to stop airing their laundry on the internet unless they are purposely trying to kill the promotion which I think a few are trying to do in order to get out of the contracts they signed and go to the UFC.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

They are trying to save themselves. Lyle has been sitting out for half a year, got sent a very confusing contract, and was going to be fighting a quality opponent with little opportunity for sponsorship dollars because no one is going to see that fight.

by Phildo on May 18, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Strikeforce fighters really need to stop airing their laundry on the internet unless they are purposely trying to kill the promotion which I think a few are trying to do in order to get out of the contracts they signed and go to the UFC.

This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard all month.

So airing their dirty laundry is an attempt to kill the promotion rather than express their rightful frustration over not being able to make a living doing what some of these guys happen to be very very good at? Do you realize Shaolin was signed by Strikeforce LAST YEAR? Both Galvao, and Jacare had to wait months too after being signed (Beerbohm even longer). Whether or not their complaints have taken good timing into consideration is irrelevant: Strikeforce has given them every valid reason to complain.

by David Castillo on May 18, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly what does posting on the internet accomplish other than make the organization look bad. I realize all of these fighters think they are more important than Fedor but if Fedor walks what is to say that Showtime doesn’t also or at least pull back their support.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re only hearing about 10% of the complaints… nobody is happy with shitfarce.

by mmalogic on May 18, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Posting what he did on the internet did 2 things.

First, it would have helped him find a contract lawyer to get out of the contract if he needed to continue that course of action.

Second, it pressured SF into talking to him and resolving the dispute quickly.

by Phildo on May 18, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who cares how it makes the organization look if his complaints are justified? Is this your logic when someone criticizes decisions made by politicians? “Sssh…don’t want to make the country look bad…”

Beerbohm doesn’t make Strikeforce look bad. Strikeforce makes Strikeforce look bad with their constant mishandling of prospects, and overall incompetence (yes, Showtime caries the bulk of the blame, but Strikefore is not powerless here). I can’t believe someone is actually claiming Beerbohm is in the wrong here.

I realize all of these fighters think they are more important than Fedor but if Fedor walks what is to say that Showtime doesn’t also or at least pull back their support.

Do you not realize how bizarre your opinion sounds, right now? In one sentence you’ve managed to a) demean the status of talented prospects like Beerbohm who will very likely challenge for their LW crown against Melendez b) ignore the fact that Strikeforce/Showtime had plenty of time to air his fight when it mattered c) act as if only Fedor should demand currency other than actual money and the host of retarded baggage his manager/promoters bring to the table and d) ostensibly believe that Strikeforce’s behavior, no matter how improper or irresponsible is a fair trade so long as they stay on CBS/Showtime.

by David Castillo on May 18, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, if it was just Beerbohm, fine…you might make a shred of sense, but a host of fighters have either complained or had a right to: Toughill, Kaufman (who doesn’t even know when or if she’s fighting anytime soon), Shaolin, Lawler, Galvao, etc.

by David Castillo on May 18, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get that you hate Strikeforce every one gets it. And this post proves that you are either incredibly misinformed or lying through your teeth. .

Yes Erin originally claimed Strike force had done her dirty. Then she had to admit that she was wrong and the problem was that Strikeforce had told her manager about a fight and her manager hadn’t told her. She has since fired her manager.

We all saw the story about how Sarah doesn’t have a contract and no fights. Turns out she was wrong her contract is still in force as it automatically renews if she hold the belt and she has a date for her next fight. It was barley two months ago since her title fight. That length of time to put a fight together is not unusual at all. But that won’t stop you from trying to torque it up into some Strikeforce is screwing all their fighters story.

If you would stop and listen to both sides you might actually have some thing intelligent to say.

by j.villain on May 19, 2010 4:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this. I’m guessing complaining on the internet or in an interview wasn’t the first time they bothered to bring it up to somebody. Those fighters complaining on the internet were probably frustrated that their issues were not getting fixed behind the scenes and out of frustration finally had to say something in public in hopes of getting it resolved.

Just BE.

by mattman73 on May 18, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s their big problem.

If they aren’t going to show prelim fights, this fight should be on a challengers card.

They also seem to have lots of issues getting fights for all their fighters (no time for shields option, shaolin was signed in september, and didn’t get a fight until may).

All of this would be solved by airing some prelims, or finding something to do with them.

And people have to realize that it’s an issue, see Lyle’s post on the UG if you don’t think it’s an issue that some of their big name prospects are sitting out for a long time then getting fights that no one can see.

by Phildo on May 18, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

In other words, imagine a Challenger program that was headlined by Shaolin vs Fancypants. I think most of us would be pretty excited for that.

Ninja please.

No one wants to see that fight when they can watch up and coming young prospects like Matt Lindland.

;)

by Steve4192 on May 18, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Steve4192, I spit all over my laptop.

  I find ironic, no one wants to watch the Boring styles of Beerbohm or Shaolin? And people are lining up to see Kevin Randelman fight Gracie (scratching my head).

If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?

by whardiek on May 18, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeforce is still young, they’ll learn hopefully. Would be nice for them to eventually do things right….Like replacing Mauro Ranallo with Bas Rutten.

by Doc Martin 28 on May 18, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know. How long has the Showtime deal been in place? I don’t think we’ve ever been given preliminary fights.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

They just passed one year. They are making changes. You can’t change every thing at once. This article is on the money though about one of the biggest things that need to change. I wish people with access to Coker would start asking him about this more. And if he passes the buck to Showtime ask for contact info for that guy and go stick a mic in his face and ask him WTF.

With the challengers cards take a guy like Rockhold. If on his last fight the story had been “With a win Rockhold gets to go to the big show” that would have added a cheap new dimension to the fight.

I do put some blame on the media as well though. It seemed like the only story they were going to cover no matter what around this card was Overeem and steroids. It is a good thing Overeem is as calm of a person as he is. If it was me I would have lost it long ago.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Strikeforce has just passed one year, but Showtime has been in the MMA business since 2007, and the ‘no prelims’ policy was established back then.

Just about everything that people are bitching about in regards to Strikeforce on Showtime are problems that existed back in 2007 with EliteXC. It doesn’t look like Showtime has any intention of changing their ways.

by Steve4192 on May 18, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally I don’t think you can sell the Strikeforce is still young excuse. Scott Coker is always saying how long he has been around promoting stuff like kickboxing before MMA. So for me the Strikeforce is still young theory doesn’t hold water because the person running the organization doesn’t fit that bill by his own description.

In my opinion it is time to stop giving Strikeforce these type of excuses like they are still young or whatever. It’s time to start holding them to a higher standard. The criticism has started and this article is a great example of that. But it’s time to stop all together on letting Strikeforce skate by half the time. It’s not helping Strikeforce. It’s giving them a free pass to not fix their problems. It’s time to open up on Strikeforce with legitimate criticism on all the issues like this that people see as their problems with no more built in excuses. That is what will get them in gear and force them to address their problems and to ultimately be a better company.

Just BE.

by mattman73 on May 18, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously this is your first time on the internet.

Every single thing they do they get absolutely ripped to shreds.

UFC does a catch weight fight
Bellator does a catch weight fight
Strike force does a catch weight fight. Fire storm like Armageddon.

UFC does a rematch fight
WEC does a rematch fight
Strikeforce does a rematch fight. Fire storm like Armageddon.

For some reason the media and the MMA fans are bound and determined to kill off another promotion. I worry for Bellator when Strikeforce is no longer the lightning rod and they turn their attention to trying to kill off Bellator.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

BE rips everybody to shreds

we’re elitists… it’s what we do

by ecost on May 18, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Give me a break.

I ripped the UFC for that ridiculous Renzo vs. Hughes legends fight. I stated that catchweight fights were absurd in any promotion. I didn’t like half of the rematches any of the promotions did that ended up being complete duds anyways. Nobody is singling out one promotion.

The only thing I singled out was… Strikeforce bringing Melvin Manhoef to the U.S.

That shit was epic, recognize!

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

In shitfarce’s defense…

When you create or have a star you have to actually pay them like one. They are in no shape or position to monetize fighters let alone stars.

by mmalogic on May 18, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very nice.

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

BJJ, are you being funny with the EliteXC references? On purpose or not, that’s pretty much what Strikeforce is doing right now…following EliteXC model.

You can’t just slap a couple name fighters on the card then have Mauro Ranallo talk them up like they’re all Fedor status and have everything work out. Successful sports franchises can always buy and acquire talent. However the ultimately successful ones develop their own.

by Doc Martin 28 on May 18, 2010 11:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Well, trying to be funny. Or ironic. Or witty. Or clever. Not sure I succeeded, but yeah, it was intentional to draw the comparison.

And did Joey Villasenor have the announcing team surgically removed from his nutsack yet? What was that about???

by BJJDenver on May 18, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

This hits home with me. The Strikeforce announcers trying to oversell every other fighter causes me to judge those fighters far more than I should. If they would just let me judge the fighters on their own merits rather than trying to sell them as something they aren’t it would be much better.

Don’t get me wrong. With certain fighters the hype can be good to promote a fight. That is something I can deal with. The problem is in every fight they seem to want to overdue the hype with somebody when they don’t need to.

Just BE.

by mattman73 on May 18, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

You accuse Strikeforce of over selling fights? Have you ever seen those UFC count down shows?

Cue Rogan: Check Kongo is a viscios visious Ju Jitsu practitioner with devistating knock out power.

Cue White: Check Kongo as been blasting through the top of the heavy weigh division. This guy is absolutly scary and I think in line for a title shot down the road.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I want some proof

Of anyone ever calling Kongo a viscious JJ practitioner. And he does have KO power. Yes they over sell too, but Mauro is the worlds worst. If you were listening to Mauro Walker is an elite striker and a top fighter.

And at one time Kongo had 3 straight wins and 5 out of 6 and was being looked at as a contender down the road. Then he fought Cain and Mir and that ended.

by swells2048 on May 18, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are completely misreading my statement. I’m talking while the fight is going on not during some count down show where the purpose is to hype the upcoming fights.

Just BE.

by mattman73 on May 18, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

On purpose or not, that’s pretty much what Strikeforce is doing right now…following EliteXC model.

It’s not the EliteXC model. It’s the ‘Showtime MMA’ model. The promoter is just a disposable content provider. It doesn’t matter if the promoter is EliteXC, or Strikerforce or the somebody else. As long as the Showtime suits are the ones dictating policy, they are going to make all the same mistakes over and over again.

by Steve4192 on May 18, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

The one common thread weaving Strikeforce and Elite XC is Showtime.

  Guys, Showtime was bad mouthing MMA one year before they aired it. They always thought boxing was better and the UFC/MMA thing was a fad. Doesnt anyone remember the silly 15 second clock for grappling? Or, the Money that Showtime offered Seth Petrazelli? They gave him money, “not to use certain Techniques”. Showtime is gonna ruin Strikeforce, just like they ruined Elite XC. It’s a fact, it’s been proven in the past and Scott Coker is gonna be a casuality in this.

If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?

by whardiek on May 18, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re right. Showtime doesn’t know the product, or the fan base that supports it. Dana has said in the past that Showtime is in the driver’s seat, and for a while I thought that was Dana just being Dana, but the more this kind of stuff goes on, the more I realize that he’s right on this one. Coker’s the promoter and everything, but it seems to me that Showtime is in the driver’s seat. Coker is in a shitty spot, cause he needs them to show the fights, yet he seems to have no ability to sway them. I mean, you gotta figure Coker knows the value of showing some undercard fights, right? Between Showtime and CBS, it appears they call all the shots. With the UFC, they have Spike, which is basically UFC TV, let’s face it. I don’t think anyone at this point can blame Dana for holding out for the right deal for the UFC.

by pud333 on May 18, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions  

UFC TV? Don't you mean UFCSI TV?

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think it is quite as you put it pud333 . A big part of the problem is that Strikeforce has spent a huge part of their resources into fixing this mess with M1. Because of this distraction a lot of other things have been getting dropped. Hopefully with that cleaned up they will be able to start getting their shit together again.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

the M-1 mess is only cleared up until the next fight, after which they will almost certainly raise more stink. good luck strikeforce

by Stillberry on May 18, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t buy it.

The problems that Strikeforce is having are not problems they had before getting in bed with Showtime. They are having the exact same problems that EliteXC had on Showtime. The common denominator here is Showtime. They want things run a certain way and they have been running them that way since 2007, regardless of what promoter they are working with.

by Steve4192 on May 18, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

We would have never known who Todd Duffman is if it weren't for air'd prelims.

I can’t think of any off the top of my head right now, but I’m sure there are a lot of fighters who got their names out from having nice performances on prelims..

by DayGeaux on May 18, 2010 11:20 AM EDT reply actions  

Duffman? You Mean TODDUFFMAN!

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

There were a bunch of Duffman jokes in the Duffee post this morning

by kid_eh on May 18, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know, the more I think about it, the more I am blaming CBS and Showtime. It seems that CBS (obviously) and more questionably, Showtime, are really not in this all the way. There are so many easy fixes that could greatly improve SF’s chances and the quality of their cards and broadcasts.

Spike and even VS are “all-in” and fully committed to the UFC and WEC. They will promote the product and invest fully into it. CBS has little use for it, and that is fine, because they stink and I’m not really sure network TV is the right fit for the sport. Showtime, however, would be a great home, if they would just go for it and put out some great products.

by BJJDenver on May 18, 2010 11:21 AM EDT reply actions  

Like I said in the article, the UFC is really in an unique position. They have a partner willing to promote them to the point of ridiculousness with marathons of Unleashed.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Even I get sick of watching Silva vs. Franklin I and II they have so many re-runs.

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, everyone does… I actually never watch the Unleashed episodes unless it’s previously unaired stuff.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do watch it most of the time, but I prefer watching the re-runs of older Fight Night cards

‘Cause on occasion they air bouts that weren’t on the original broadcast.

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

It just stands in contrast to what Showtime does for Strikeforce. There is no reason Showtime can’t air replays or clip shows once a week or at 3 am or something.

While Fox Sports can’t air all of the Bellator shows nationally, they give bellator tons more replays than Showtime does.

by Phildo on May 18, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

At least stream the stuff on the internet. Strikeforce has a Youtube channel. Use it.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

The UFC really is in a unique position because Spike is relying a lot on UFC programming as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if those marathons of Unleashed wasn’t Spike’s idea because of the ratings UFC programming gets as compared to everything else Spike runs. Or do I have the wrong information in thinking that the UFC programming is generally week in and week out Spike’s highest rated programming.

Just BE.

by mattman73 on May 18, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a different situation

CBS has CSI and some other shows that they offer that people like and watch. Spike’s best shows (non-UFC) are 1000 Ways to Die and Mansers. They need the UFC as much as the UFC needs them. CBS doesn’t NEED Strikeforce.

by DayGeaux on May 18, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

1000 Ways to Die is a great show.

Manswers is an insult to men.

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ha I hate them equally, but Mansers do ask some decent questions from time to time.

Like how to hide your weed in fresh ground meat to avoid getting arrested. Mmmm protein weed!

But I do have to give Spike some cred for Blue Mountain State. That’s my new favorite show right now.

by DayGeaux on May 18, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t forget Deadliest Warrior. How else would we have answers to such important questions like who would win in a fight a Shaolin Monk or a Maori Warrior.

by MMASpotClint on May 18, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

It feels like Showtime and CBS want to get the fights done as quickly as possible

If you notice, one fight will end and then they’ll quickly hop to the next one. If you get a quick night and still have 30 minutes for show you can easily fill that in with undercard fights. UFC PPVs do it and while it’s becoming few and far between, so do the free cards (because pointless interviews with BJ Penn are just too good to pass up!).

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it almost makes me think that Showtime has shows that get better ratings in that timeslot or after the events. CBS does for sure, but I wonder what kind of ratings are after 10:30 PM CST. I mean, is it seriously detrimental to their profits to air MMA 30 minutes longer?

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Shortsighted

I’ve got to imagine Showtime is aware of the success Spike is having airing MMA and of course more specifically UFC branded MMA. It just seems shortsighted not to put in that extra 30 minutes to help make MMA successful on their own network.

by Worldisart on May 18, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think this is the right answer.

I wonder how many promotions CBS/Showtime are going to run into the ground before they realized they have to take their hands off and let the promoters and matchmakers do what they do.

Not that Coker/Strikeforce would have made it anyway, but when Showtime meddles in a sport they obviously know nothing about it doesn’t contribute to quality.

Spike and VS. give Zuffa the airtime and that’s it. You think they’re demanding “names” like Kevin Randleman on the card? They trust Zuffa to do what it does and just sits back and rakes in the cash.

Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion

by The Kittitas Kid on May 18, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Spike actually does meddle a bit when it comes to live cards on Spike.

They have nixed a number of main card fights that they felt were boring (Nate the great got banished to prelims of Tito-Shammy 3 and UFN 8 after originally being booked on the main card) and have pushed a number of fights onto the main card because they involved TUF fighters. Also, who can forget their attempt to book Sims-Thomas on the TUF 5 finale after their infamous streetfight on the show? Fortunately, Dana put his foot down and nixed that one.

by Steve4192 on May 18, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

The difference there is the UFC is working together mutually with Spike to adjust the card to fit what Spike thinks helps their ratings. With Strikeforce it’s seems that Showtime is more or less just dictating to Strikeforce what they want. Not so much in a mutually beneficial way.

Just BE.

by mattman73 on May 18, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

other than MLB/NBA/NFL, network TV is for old people and lemmings whoget addicted to things like American Idol and Lost

by Stillberry on May 18, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why would they go out of their way to broadcast a fight with a fighter who’s actively (and publicly) trying to get out of his Strikeforce contract? To promote him on his way out the door?

by BVandDietPepsi on May 18, 2010 11:31 AM EDT reply actions  

I’m pretty sure it was already scheduled for undercard duty before Beerbohm said he needed a lawyer.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

That doesn’t mean he wasn’t already making noises about wanting to go some where else.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Proof of this claim?

Are are you just defending Strikeforce for the sake of defending them?

by David Castillo on May 18, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

So your saying that Beerhohm didn’t think to talk to his manager, didn’t think to speak to any one at Strikeforce, he just decided one day to post on the internet that he wanted a lawyer? No discussion first?

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fighter wanted out because he wasn’t being properly promoted in the first place.

by MMAGuard on May 18, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve complained about this before, but who’s to blame for prospects not being pushed? Is it Strikeforce? Showtime? CBS? I swear if you ask 10 different people you get 10 different answers. It sucks because they’re shallowing their own talent pool. It seems like Challengers is a place where journeyman fighters go to die rather than a stepping stone for young talent. If it’s Showtime calling the shots then Coker needs to take control of his company back. Showtime/CBS clearly has no idea on the direction Strikeforce needs to take in order to succeed.

Lemonade was a popular drink, and it still is. I get more stunts and props than Bruce Willis- Guru

by Dr. Octagon on May 18, 2010 11:32 AM EDT reply actions  

They need to change format, carriers or both

Bellator seems to have a much better long term model. Strikeforce needs to have a series of tournaments to determine the next legit challengers to their few top-tier fighters as well as to get exposure for up-and-comers.

Two different, but relevant examples:
NCAA tournament. Totally different in almost all ways, but the tournament format creates great interest up and down the brackets.
Perhaps more germane, for any of you old enough to remember, was the early days of HBO trying to unify the HW boxing title which ultimately resulted in a very young, talented and hungry Mike Tyson destroying his way to a title.

by BigDNotDallas on May 18, 2010 12:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Here's the question:

Does Strikeforce make it through the end of the year? I say “no.” I heard the first peels of the death knell when Coker started talking about putting kickboxing fights on MMA cards.

Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion

by The Kittitas Kid on May 18, 2010 11:37 AM EDT reply actions  

Actually, I believe the It’s Showtime/Strikeforce rumors are to push Strikeforce into Europe. Coker has a background in promoting kickboxing, and kickboxing draws heavy in Asia and Europe. If they co-promote with It’s Showtime, they can grab up guys like Badr Hari. That’s huge, at least, from a profit standpoint.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love Badr Hari

But he’s nobody in the states. They haven’t done extremely well building Fedor (imho); what makes anyone think they can build Badr Hari?

Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion

by The Kittitas Kid on May 18, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

They haven’t done well building Fedor because Fedor himself isn’t interested in building Fedor.

by nastyem on May 18, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

You don’t build him here. You do some shows in Europe with European guys like Mariusz, and profit off the gate of using a guy like Badr Hari. I’m not sure if they’d do a combined event of K-1 and MMA or not. Be interesting to see.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t follow kickboxing much, so I don’t know how all the companies get along, but why wouldn’t they work with K-1 if they wanted to do something like this? Didn’t Coker run K-1 USA? Would Dream care that SF is working with a different kickboxing org? Isn’t K-1 more well known?

by Phildo on May 18, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

And I also don’t know why they want to go to Europe so quickly. They shouldn’t leave California unless they are fighting in someone’s home town that can guarantee a sellout.

by Phildo on May 18, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only market where the UFC has really caught on in Europe is the UK and we really couldn’t give two shits about kickboxing.

by Mat Parker 116 on May 18, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Poland is just waiting to explode, to be honest. That Germany/Poland region could be huge if they can get over the censorship crap in Germany.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

They want to promote Kickboxing/MMA cards in Europe with It’s Showtime.
Mixed MMA/Kickboxing cards are very common in central europe

by KOQ24 on May 18, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Still a distraction.

You think Dana and the Fertittas are thinking about putting on mixed cards in Central Europe?

When those guys go international, it’s the same brand and the same product (MMA). That way they can still ship it back to the states and sell it to their core consumers.

This bullshit is just a distraction and a resource suck.

Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion

by The Kittitas Kid on May 18, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

How's that a distraction?

It’s a Bonus when you can take your brand international.
Especially since the UFC doesn’t care much about Europe besides great britain

by KOQ24 on May 18, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

It IS a bonus to take your brand international.

It is just obviously clear at this point that Strikeforce has no idea what there brand is. MMA? Kickboxing? MMA and kickboxing? Whatever! It’s all Strikeforce!

Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion

by The Kittitas Kid on May 18, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

But they have thrown monster amounts of money at Europe and are really only dabbling over their. With a partner that is already doing successful shows in Europe Coker can move in fairly fast.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t buy that. If it is the kickboxing that is drawing the fans in Europe then their partners aren’t going to just give half the profits to Strikeforce for half the card being MMA. They may get some fighters on some cards but it’s not going to be possible to just waltz in there in some grand fashion and be successful fairly fast.

Just BE.

by mattman73 on May 18, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s Showtime is trying to get into North America. Strikeforce knows the people at the AC’s, the people in the media, who to contact to get rings or cages, contacts at arenas etc, etc. It’s Show time has the same thing over in Europe. You do the leg work until I can get acclimatized and I will do the same for you. It is a win, win for both organizations.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's amazing

They have great shows with exciting finishes but never air the prelims when they have loads of time left…..and yet they had no problem putting on 3 title fights for a 2 hour CBS broadcast, where going over the alloted time would upset affiliates, clearly thinking “There is no way all of these can go the distance!”. Then all of a sudden they do and they get a brawl during the 11:00 news timeslot.

Backwards thinking.

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:42 AM EDT reply actions  

Showtime tapes some prelims

Woodley vs. Sal Woods
Coenen vs. Modafferi
Nakamura vs. Wilcox
Lighty vs. Cook
Lighty vs. Britt
Mayhem vs. Stout

were shown in some form to promote the fighters, but it wasn’t shown on the broadcasts, which is a big mistake.

by KOQ24 on May 18, 2010 11:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Hieron vs. Riggs on easports.com

Can’t believe no one brought that farce up yet.

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

easportsmma.com actually

….whatever.

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s more EA sports fault than anything with their shitty stream.

by KOQ24 on May 18, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Point is that shouldn't have been on the preliminary card anyway.

"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad

by SSreporters on May 18, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

The fight sucked

Nobody would’ve watched it besides the hardcores and Showtime would’ve lost viewers

by KOQ24 on May 18, 2010 12:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Ribeiro’s jiu-jitsu was pretty slick in that fight. Hardcores would have liked it.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really enjoy Bellator

And if I miss an event or don’t have 2 hours they have a shorter recap show and just show the end/finishes. Its great promoting IMO. But more than anything I hear and see commercials and promotions for Bellator. Rebney is out there addressing issues, talking about fights/fighters, trying to be proactive and not reactive.

Coker is totally reactive. Everything with Strikeforce seems to be in slow motion and the communication is awful. I believe their downfall will be when the Fedor vs Overeem fight happens and they make it a PPV and do only 150K in buys and then M1 jumps ship with Fedor or Fedor loses leaving Strikeforce with a lot of debt and no support.

by swells2048 on May 18, 2010 12:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah...

I don’t anticipte Fedor staying win lose or draw…

by truck on May 18, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not for longterm viability. Especially if, as I suspect, Fedor bolts once M1 has no use for Strikeforce. They would most likely put a majority of their eggs in one basket and if Fedor were to beat Overeem you’d have a HW division with nothing to profit from because prospects were not built up, no Shields, and nothing substantial in the lighter weight classes. The co promomtions look good on paper and could pay dividends or be a knife through the chest. If Melendez loses to Alvarez, Jacare to Lombard, Overeem to Fedor, Diaz to Sakurai, etc…all of your belts are now with other organizations or in Jacare’s case your best MW lost to someone you can’t promote.

by swells2048 on May 18, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm....

It could very realistically play out something like what you described…maybe not truly worst case, but some version of that is realistic worst-case…and not all that improbable.

I fear SF has tied their hands with the oversized payouts they have given, esp to Fedor/M-1. It appears that their model is not sustainable because they can’t nurture and promote upcoming talent that would carry them later.

I’ve said before, and maintain, Bellator has a much more viable model for growth and success, all things considered.

by BigDNotDallas on May 18, 2010 1:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Please provide your cost benefit analysis upon which this is based.

Showtime is paying the majority of the fees for Fedor and Hendo. Not Strikeforce. Strikeforce is good with money. Look at what they said about Kimbo. They got his contract when they bought out EliteXC but decided not to hang onto him because they thought he was to expensive for them in the long term. If Showtime wants to throw money around let them. But it isn’t Strikeforce that is taking the hit.

I highly doubt that Bellator is getting paid as much per show as Strikeforce is either. If they were they wouldn’t have needed to cut their award money.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please provide your proof that Showtime is paying the majority of the fees for Fedor and Hendo.

Just BE.

by mattman73 on May 18, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too big too fast.....
Perhaps Scott Coker doesn’t see any value in Beerbohm ……..

Perhaps Coker is only providing ground level support for dealing with fighters and Showtime makes ALL the decision of what’s on TV and when and how.

This Showtime/EXC/Strikeforce marriage is some sort of evil devil baby that needs to die IMO. If Strikeforce would do what Bellator is doing they’d be much bigger right now.

by JimJoe on May 18, 2010 12:36 PM EDT reply actions  

This is pretty much exactly correct....

Coker has VERY little control of the company right now. As in…VERY little

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com

by Brent Brookhouse on May 18, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that just rumor or firsthand knowledge

Even before Showtime, Strikeforce seemed to do one off shows.

They seemed to just cobble together the biggest names they could get their hands on and hope to make enough money to do another show. They’ve never tried to create a story line imho.

by ecost on May 18, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree.

They built up guys Le, Melendez, Buentello, Thompson and a few others over the course of multiple shows. The creation of the Cung Le money machine was very much the kind of long-term approach that Zuffa has made famous.

by Steve4192 on May 18, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes they only keep Coker around because of his magnetic personality and ability to sway and work the media. Sigh.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its coming from the fighters

Beerbohm, Toughill, Gurgel, Ribeiro….fighters begging for fights, scheduled and then called off, etc and they are all saying Coker doesn’t have the say. Coker isn’t even around after a championship fight. He has/had a great relationship with fighters, managers and has the contacts in the fight business, but that doesn’t mean he is calling the shots.

by swells2048 on May 18, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I haven’t seen any thing from the other 3 but I do know that Erin has now admitted that the problem wasn’t Strikeforce but her manager who has been fired.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually think this is the case unfortunately.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Dana is to believed, which I don’t see why he would lie, this is the case.

"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-

by Neil Manich on May 18, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your right. Dana sits in on all the meetings and has absolutely no reason to lie. Nor has he ever lied.

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

at least the debate shifts

from complaining about the actual product to the way it is packaged.
I thought it was a great card

by nostraboris on May 18, 2010 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Definitely a good card, but I would think they’d try to promote some guys at instances where they can with 30 minutes of free air time in the allotted time slot. Just my opinion.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 18, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s like fucking an ok looking chick with her farting every 2 seconds… you know those wet, nasty ones.

Yes, that’s how bad the production and commentary is.

by mmalogic on May 18, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoa, nobody asked for a scientific breakdown. A simple analogy would have sufficed.

by DayGeaux on May 18, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously

I love Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg, but not watching a fight because they’re not there means you’re just not that into it.

Kinda like making up stories about chicks farting to justify not banging them because you secretly crave the cock.

by nostraboris on May 18, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

To paraphrase Chris Jericho

“Talk about Tim Kennedy!”

“But we are.”

“MORE!”

by Chortles on May 18, 2010 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Update

The Beerbohm/Shaolin fight is gonna be made available tomorrow at 6pm ET on strikeforce.com

by KOQ24 on May 18, 2010 6:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Awesome. Where did you hear that?

BTW why don’t people go here and add a comment about getting the under card fights shown.

http://sports.sho.com/browse/video-portal.html?id=86360489001

by j.villain on May 18, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

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