Post-Hangover Thoughts - Strikeforce: Heavy Artillery Shows Lack of Growth in Production Values
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:07 PM EDT
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Rather than run through a list of takeaways from the event like normal I just want to focus on one thing today, the poor production that continues to haunt Strikeforce cards.
Let's get this out of the way first. Heavy Artillery was a good show. It had solid fights, did a nice job of helping to introduce/continue to build up guys like Antonio Silva, Jacare, Overeem, Roger Gracie, Feijao. But no matter how good of a show Strikeforce puts on, the production is serving as a constant drag and distraction from the action. At its worst the commentary becomes so bad that it actively serves to alter the perception of what is happening in the fight to the less informed.
During the Arlovski/Silva fight the first round was a surprise as Silva was countering a very flat Arlovski and winning the stand-up battle. This led to the announce team actively "taking a side" in the fight. In the second and third round there were multiple exchanges where Arlovski would land two punches, Silva would miss one and the only commentary offered would be "Silva missing with a counter." As Gus Johnson and Frank Shamrock exploded with excitement at every glancing punch from Silva a very close fight was unfolding. Two of the judges, as well as myself, gave Arlovski the second round and I actually had him with a slight edge in the third before Silva took him down late in the round and did enough work to take a decision. From the commentary you'd assume that the scorecards should have read 72-14.
The Jacare/Villasenor fight was another example of distracting commentary misrepresenting a fight. Jacare dominated all but maybe 30 seconds of the fight. He was outstriking Villasenor, getting constant takedowns, doing damage from the top, avoiding the punches of "Smokin' Joe." But as Jacare fatigued slightly the announcers screamed that the fight was Villasenor's for the taking. As he came in throwing wild punches that clearly missed before getting countered and power doubled to the ground it was repeated that it was his fight if he had the will to take it. It actually served to make Jacare look bad. The fight was framed as an exhausted Jacare just trying to survive the perils of Villasenor's pressure game when Jacare was actually doing whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.
Finally, yet again, Showtime went ahead and chose not to broadcast any undercard action, instead going off the air 30 minutes before the scheduled broadcast end. American Top Team fighter Francisco France won in under a minute and a half, Mike Chandler pulled off a victory in under a minute, Jesse Finney won in the first round. All of these are guys who will be on Strikeforce cards in the future (Chandler and Finney have been on Strikeforce cards in the past), they're all guys with the skills to make some noise in the future, and none of them made the broadcast. Lyle Beerbohm and Vitor Ribero went to decision so that may have been difficult to get on the broadcast, but they still could have shown a highlight to continue pushing the growth of their now 14-0 prospect.
At some point the broadcast needs to be improved. It is obvious that Showtime and CBS have no interest in using extra time to show undercard bouts, that is probably just something we have to accept. They don't do it with boxing, they're unlikely to start with MMA. However, the commentary is something that must be addressed and it must be addressed soon. Gus Johnson is bad at his job, he is an active distraction who doesn't have a firm grasp of the sport. Frank Shamrock is awful on the mic, he cheerleads and ignores activity. Mauro has, sadly, become a joke as he seems unable to call fights at the level that he did in PRIDE.
If the Strikeforce product is to be taken seriously it needs to be presented in a way that allows fans to take it as such. Until then even their best events will be damaged.
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Last night was some of the absolute wort commentating ive heard
bar none.
i couldnt believe when i heard this
Why cant we make this a slugfest like the fans want to see. come on.
I'm not afraid of dying, I'm a little bit scared of what comes after
by SouthCaliStunNa on May 16, 2010 2:10 PM EDT reply actions
It really was. I can’t recall MMA card in some time with worse commentating buy all the commentators. Usally when there is bad announcing you can take a few bright spots from 1 or more of the commentators but all 3 Mauro,Gus and Shamrock were just as horrible as they have ever been last night and thats pretty dam hard to do becasue they usally suck on every card but last night was just overkill.
True Dat
I hate piling on Strikeforce over a criticism that I think pales in comparison to their real woes, but they really have created a triumvirate of inanity.
To me Gus Johnson as it his worst in the fighter interviews. His cold demeanor makes it feel like they’re at a funeral and he’s asking them which memory of the recently departed was their favorite. Fucking christ Gus…smile, or something. Frank’s commentary was bad tonight, but the audacity of straight up telling the audience he has no respect for Jake Shields during the Nashville show, and acting like him walking out of Shields’ fighter interview was some kind of act of nobility was the all time low. You’d be hard pressed to even imagine something worse. I’ve never liked Mauro, so this so called “decline” people speak of (the Fedor/Mirko commentary was good because even he couldn’t fuck it up) has gone unnoticed to these eyes, at least. Plus his “25 cm pole” line about Carano disgusts me even now.
Last night was bad, but not significantly worse than usual (just worse).
The real shocker is hearing people’s opinion on who’s better. Quadros? No. Bas? He hasn’t given a shit in awhile. Kenny Rice? Somebody seriously asked for Jim Breuer’s creepy uncle?
by David Castillo on May 16, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Stand and wang!
what a joke. their commentary team is ballz. period. Shamrock and that monstrosity in his mouth….worse than watching Jake Shields do an interview. seriously.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on May 17, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Listen guys, Strikeforce needs more better and more crisper broadcasters
UFC has got the upperhooks on them when it comes to presentation and commentary and Goldie is not much more better than Mauro. It’s become a joke at how bad this trio is.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
I swear he had money on the fights.
He almost convinced himself Villansenor won a decision.
by HappyLittleTreez on May 16, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahem
LEAPING upperhooks.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Don Frye needs to be the ring side interviewer.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Naaa, thats the last thing Strikeforce needs is scared fighters before they get in the cage.
"Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit." -Mike Tyson
The
braces on Shamrock are the icing on the cake of this broadcasting team.
Just hilarious, braces on a middle aged man.
I stopped talking to my father in 2002
when he got braces. I barely acknowledged him for like a year
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure if I should be laughing at this
But I’m totally laughing at this.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it just me or has he had those braces in for a long ass time? I swear its been longer then 3 years. I haven’t met anyone that has had them in longer then that.
Migraines
are the reason a lot of the time.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a great aesthetic solution
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Consequently
That’s the reason you forgot to pick something.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
OH SWEET IRONY!
R.I.P Ronnie James Dio
by Earl Montclair on May 16, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Pretty sad..
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Sad day for metal, actually just for music,
R.I.P Ronnie James Dio
by Earl Montclair on May 16, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
It’s harder to adjust teeth in adults than kids. Kids’ teeth around the usual age for braces are shifting to fit all their adult ones. Adults’ teeth are more set, so they require more effort to move.
If you're not watching Treme, you're a bad person.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on May 16, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know man
Nick Diaz moved all of his teeth around in 10 minutes.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree the commentating is sub-par… but Im not sure how well the casual fans notice it or are bothered by it. A casual fan buddie of mine did mention that he was tired of hearing about Andre Arvloski’s shaken mental state… that was way overblown IMO.
But the part I agree with most is not showing the undercard fights. I wasnt aware that there were a few that ended around the one minute mark! Strikeforce seems to only be able to hype/build a handfull of fighters, which doesnt bode well for their future.
Props for them showing the main event fighter’s intros this time. It was absurd not showing King Mo or Fedor’s in the past.
Great job again Brent…. I just wish we had a Din Thomas brutal KO to tralk about today…
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
With Showtime doing the production I doubt we will ever see the undercard fights recorded and shown. I guess they think it would cost them money to record those fights and have commentary done for them so they just skip it. I would be that Strikeforce would be more than happy to have those fights shown and those guys get some air time but Showtime is pulling the production strings.
They are getting recorded...
I know that much.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I have it on good authority from someone within the organization that they do not record nearly any of the prelims. They will only record one when they think they will need it to hype a title fight (like Mayhem vs. Stout or Coenen vs. Roxy). Since they stopped putting out DVD’s of events, there is no need to spend the extra money on dark matches.
They recorded the Beerbohm fight last night
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I was told the same thing, I didn’t see anyone filming the Shamar Bailey fight at the Chicago show…but then when he fought on the Challengers show a little while back they had footage of it. I think they are single camera filming most all of the prelims.
I’ve discussed it with people in strikeforce and showtime and that is what I’ve been told.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
If I recall correctly
The Mayhem footage they showed on the last CBS card was all shot overhead, probably by a camera in the scaffolding
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
That very well could be the case.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
They may be recording them (although I think it is with only one camera), but are any of those guys (with the exception of Beerbohm and Riberio) Strikeforce fighters? The previous cards Finney and Chandler fought on where in St. Louis and Kansas City. That tells me they are local fighters they like to use. So if none of them are fighters signed to fight for Strikeforce why would Showtime want to promote them?
Strikeforce does have very good prelims that are taped and broadcast. They are called Challenger cards. I think this is a mistake, and that they’d be better off putting these fights on as the actual prelims and then broadcasting them a week later. but financially it makes sense for Strikeforce to go along with Showtime on this.
I was watching with an extreme casual fan...
and he noticed that a lot of what they were saying didn’t match up with what was happening. and his opinion of what was happening was also slanted at times because of how they were framing it. That is what bothers me more than them being bad. When they’re bad and causing people who don’t know better to think things are different than they really are.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Rise and fire!
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on May 16, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I was beginning to wonder if it was only me that was disgusted with the commentary last night, that was just plain bad. What bothered me was that the commentators were actually taking away from good fights instead of helping to describe the action. Frank and Gus have always been pretty lame but what the heck has happened to Mauro Ranallo? These guys actually seem to be getting worse event after event. Strikeforce would be better off with a drunken Bas Rutten and Bill Goldberg at this point.
They’d be better off with no commentary.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on May 16, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Frank does a decent job...
with his prefight commentary. But once the fight’s begin, he completely blows it.
Day-man! Fighter of the Night-man! Champion of the sun. You're a master of Karate and friendship for everyone!
"Charlie"
It was painful to watch/listen to Frank during the Shields/Hendo fight last month… His bias was strong enough to warrent a replacement for that night IMO.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on May 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
uh no it wasnt..
most fans and pro fighters thought hendo would win.. the comentators are supposed to commentate on the fight and all things involved. hendo being a favorite and clipping shields (like he did in the first round) was the primary thing to really talk about. maybe YOU should be a good replacement.
before the fight, as Shields walked out
Frank totally threw him under the bus. It was like if Lou Holtz got to call a Notre Dame game
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
But Lou always thought his
team would lose and didn’t know how they were going to match up against a strong XYZ team.
by Riney on May 16, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Frank went out of his way to point out that he didn’t like Jake Shilds over and over and over again and his commentary was very one sided in that fight. His bias was so bad even my wife who doesn’t watch MMA noticed it walking through the room.
Yeah, he obviously can’t commentate without bias. Its like watching Rashad commentate for Jardine, just in reverse.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
“Jardine’s fighting from the gut, this when he fight best!”/Jardine gets dropped by Rampage
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can’t exactly blame him. The next time I watch Jake Shields fight it will be because I downloaded him getting knocked out.
by Tim the Enchanter on May 16, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Seemed to me the camera work was bad also. They were constantly changing to a different angle and sometimes it was a worse shot than the one before it. Oh yeah and one more thing. Frank Shamrock is terrible and so are his braces. That is all…
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on May 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Bring in Bas, Fight Professer, and Kenny Rice please
"Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit." -Mike Tyson
Maybe its just old school WWF nostalgia...
But I wish ‘Good Ole J.R.’ could get on board.
Doubt he’d enjoy the paycut though…
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on May 16, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
how did FancyPants win his fight?
"Hit me up on Twitter @ IDontHaveATwitterBecauseIhaveAFuckingLifeAndDontCareWhatEveryoneElseIsDoingOrThinkingEverySecondOfEveryFuckingDaySeriouslyKnockItOff
I read it was a controversial decision. Ben Fowlkes was complaining about it on twitter.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Our guy from 4Real, Matt Bishop, was in attendance and said it was a damn close fight probably decided by Beerbohm having top control for a lot of the time
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
3 man booths annoy me. Bas could solve this. Mauro w/ Bas could still work. I think Bas kept Mauro in line.
Mauro is bias too. I would like to see all 3 replaced. I think Jim Ross a free agent? JR Bas would be a great start.
Twitter @i_c_u_hater
http://dreamthemez.wordpress.com
by Thats It For you! on May 16, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
NO
definitely no. Goldberg gets excited, and says a few riddiculous things. But gus is in a league of his own. I will take Golbergism’s to the filth gus spews any day of the week.
I'm not saying I'd replace Goldberg.
Goldie, and his ‘Goldbergisms’ have become a UFC institution. He’ is irreplacable. If he were ever shit-canned, there would be a backlash.
But Gus is a world-class sportscaster. Check his resume. To say that he is bad at his job when his job is ‘Sportscaster’ is ludicrous. He just hasn’t picked up combat-sports too quickly. Believe me. You should here the flack he gets over at BLH.
He’s considered a joke by most college basketball fans around NCAA tourney time also. Just because he has the job doesn’t make him good at it.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
His play-by-play leaves a lot to be desired, but people love his enthusiasm
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love Gus during tourney time. That time of year screaming like a lunatic makes sense
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
by SSreporters on May 16, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But yeah Gus is absolutely terrible at MMA
I love the guy for Basketball and Football, as in ‘will watch games that I otherwise wouldn’t’ love him, but he’s terrible at announcing MMA. I’m basically a newbie to the sport and his lack of knowledge makes me cringe.
Not afraid to nitpick
Good Ol’ JR BAH GAWD! I’m being serious though.
"Hit me up on Twitter @ IDontHaveATwitterBecauseIhaveAFuckingLifeAndDontCareWhatEveryoneElseIsDoingOrThinkingEverySecondOfEveryFuckingDaySeriouslyKnockItOff
I was very excited when CBS/Showtime announced they picked up Gus Johnson. Even after his first couple shows, I thought he brought enough to the table that he would become very good once he got a handle on the fight game. Unfortunately, he’s regressed, if anything. I don’t know if it’s the herky-jerky pace of an MMA fight or if he thinks he knows more than he actually does or what, but I gave up on the Gus Johnson Experiment long ago. I still love him doing basketball and football, though.
I think Frank brings enough to the table that I can deal with his flaws. There are better candidates (Miletich being one), but I can deal with Frank, for the most part.
As for Mauro, I think it’s tough to judge him in his role. He’s not exactly the play-by-play guy and he’s not exactly the color commentator. He’s a third wheel, and I’m sure he’s just as uncomfortable with the position, as we are listening to it. I haven’t watched any of the recent Challengers shows. Is he the sole PBP guy for those?
As R.T. said above, I really wish someone would give Jon Anik another shot (if he’s even available). I thought he did a really good job when he called Bellator’s first season.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on May 16, 2010 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
My opinion is that Frank is actually the worst part of the team. He uses commentary mainly to get himself over and laughs like an idiot at least once per fight. l understand having a former fighter on the team, but how about one who has had a relevant fight in the modern MMA era?
by Michael Rome on May 16, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like when he said last night, “Rogers is jamming the power of the big man.”
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the problem with Frank is that he thinks he’s much more relevant than he actually is.
A retired, completely irrelevant fighter would be good. A current good fighter who understands what his job is would be good, but the combination of not really relevant and blatant self promotion is a terrible combinatin.
by Phildo on May 16, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
First two fights I really enjoyed Gus and thought the overall commentating wasn’t that bad. In fact there was a moment early in the night when Gus asked Frank what a fighter was trying to accomplish and I thought “Awesome. He’s not trying to be Goldberg and is asking the questions many new fans at home might be asking”.
And then the Jacare/Villasenor fight started…
My vote would be for the Voice and Miletich.
Gus seems to think that he does have more knowledge than he really does. He always points to the fact that he has BJJ training since taking over the MMA role, but he’ll talk about positioning and submission stuff and just be flat out wrong.
Mauro is being told to keep up the awful one liners to my understanding. I think the men in charge are partly responsible for what he has become.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, the commentating is so bad that I actually go to mute the volume until stopping midway because I want to hear the actual sounds of the fight.
Gus Johnson is simply incompetent. He doesn’t know mma and should just stick with basketball. Mind you the format of 2 play by play guys doesn’t help but his knowledge of the game is severely lacking.
Frank is just much too biased and doesn’t have a very good grasp of how to use the mic as a colour man. Bring back Pat Miletich.
Mauro… well he’s a joke of what he was in pride. And even then we only remember the second mirko/crocop fight. I have most of the pride dvds and he wasn’t all that good even back then. Now it’s just atrocious.
by Danny An Khoi Vu on May 16, 2010 2:46 PM EDT reply actions
Gus Johnson is bad at his job, he is an active distraction who doesn’t have a firm grasp of the sport.
Somebody is going to get a late-night phone call.
by Steve4192 on May 16, 2010 2:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
WOW.. your really gonna rag on strikeforce no matter what
seriously.. i understand BE needing to drum up negativity to sell it self as a “real” media outlet, but your taking this too far. The announcers for stikeforce are not perfect but you guys are ridiculous .. why does each card have to be criticized to the point of not enjoying it? The fights last night were entertaining for sure.. and you guys are so adept at criticizing that you dont even realize that mauro actually made some pretty good calls at adding to the conversation when talking about rather techinical fight details.. YOu can tell he has watched a 1000 fights. Its either rogan and goldie say the same thing too much or mauro gus and frank dont say enough.. you guys need to realize that mma fights can be FUN too.
Seriously agree with you. I watched with some casual fans last night with the volume way up. I noticed the mistakes, but everyone else enjoyed the broadcast. For me, it’s not any worse than UFC.
and people gripe about it after UFC events too. It’s not drumming up negativity to point out a weak point in a show. Heck if you don’t make your feelings known when you don’t think something is up to standard then you are dooming yourself to keep getting a substandard product. Good enough just shouldn’t be good enough and people can point out things that they didn’t care for without it being a bad thing.
thats a great point ..
i totally agree.. but at this point. top of the page of BE and all you see is how strikeforce’s commentary sucks… please.. lets promote the kickass mma not an agenda.
What agenda?
Are you kidding me?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you only check BE on alternating weeks?
Because I swear just last week Kid Nate was calling for the downfall of Zuffa
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
And for two days i've been getting bitched at for defending Strikeforce's flaws...
clearly my agenda is to defend them occasionally and criticize them at other times.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's funny really
I wouldn’t even be mad at the guy, he’s cracking me up
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
If your agenda gets any more agenda you will become Kid Nate :D
So tell us Brent, why do you hate MMA?
This is true
"I have to carry out another fine moment before I die."
-Tatsuya Kawajiri-
by Erich Vowell on May 16, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It's all so clear now..
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
So your mad because this is the most recent article on BE? You do know they go down the page according to time posted right? The top article isn’t the main article it’s just the most recent one.
first im not mad..
im saying the “post hangover thoughts” article.. posted on the top of BE.. you know the one about what one might remember from last nights fights. well maybe you guys only remembered sub par commentary compared to the nfl or mlb.. but i watched some awesome awesome fights that were with some elite martial artists (k1 , bjj world champs the like) for a very inexpensive amount of money. When i woke this morning that is what i remembered. entertaining mma !!!
and just for the record.. jacare is one of my idols..
but there was times when his own positives (raw speed, exposive power, extremely fast transitions) hurt him in his fights.. and unless he can overwelm in the first two rounds.. i feel against stiffer competiion he wil find that is what will hold him back.. his raw agression. last night he looked great… but he also looked bad..
It’s not the only article about last night’s fights on BE currently, heck there are 10 articles about last night and only one of them talks negatively. Perhaps if you would of scrolled down to Nate’s post fight thought posted 20 minutes earlier you would of seem the positive you are looking for. All that it means that this article was on top was that it was the newest one (it’s not anymore), it doesn’t mean it was the only one or even the main article written. Brent normally covers negative issues in the post fight hangover thoughs articles, this isn’t a overview of the entire event it’s just him talking about something that was a problem with the event. If you want to discuss last nights events outside of commentary issues there are other articles and discussions currently on the site.
It is the most recent article, thereby at the top of the page. Should we not post criticism because for a period it will occupy the top of the page? Nate had up a post that covered mostly positive things from the card. These post-hangover things usually take a look in bulletpoint format of all the good and bad from the event but Nate already did the bulletpoint thing so I focused on this aspect of the event.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Strikeforce commentary does suck.
How about the people that are translating the fight for casuals (whatever you call people that watch mma and are not signed up to a blog) properly promote some “kickass” mma?
When people are saying over and over again that it was a good night of fights but the commentating was bad then that’s just not them being negative that is having a complaint about a show they otherwise liked. Besides this isn’t the only place where the bad commentary comes up, heck they were talking about it on Sherdog’s beatdown after the bell last night too.
and to think...just yesterday I was getting my balls busted for defending all things Strikeforce...
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
“Ya win some, ya lose some. But ya live, ya live to fight anotha day, son!”
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua: UFC LHW CHAMP! Justice is served, 2-0 against Machida!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 16, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I'll rec a Friday comment
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 16, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that the production is getting better. Visually the event looked better than any other I have seen from Strikeforce. There were a number of shots where I thought it looked better than the UFC shows.
There is still work to be done though. I agree that the announce crew should just be taken out side and shot. Don’t get me wrong I’m glad they dumped the dead guy but nothing about this crew is working yet. The entrances have improved some but it still has a bit of a trailer park vibe going on.
But yes most of all they need to leverage the prelims. Even if they just throw them up on youtube. Putting them on the show would be best. I think we should all write Strikeforce and Showtime and let them know they need to work on that.
The good news though is that they are at least trying to improve. I wish they would go faster but they are making changes.
no it wasnt !!
i was rooting for villasenoer.. but he WASNT the favorite.. goldie and rogan do this all the time..
YOur supposed to talk about the fighter that will Probably look good in the fight. its promotion.. their job. they did change their tune.. and gave joey mad props over and over for outlasting a world champion/ and favorite on the ground. your bias is blinding
lol
He controlled that fight, and someone on the broadcast states, “This is an even fight” or something along those lines, after the end of a round…. Slightly biased
wow..
joey was controlled on the ground.. but was lighting jacare up.. it was close at times.. and if joey finished very very strong he might not of won on the cards but we would have all agreed he would have won. what they say is situational.. at the end of round 2. that was the perfect time to say that. point is commentary did a decent to good job.. your doing a bad job of picking them apart.
lighting jacare up?
for real? i think you drank the kool-aid that Mauro, Frank, and Gus were passing out.
maybe you missed jacare's bloody nose..
im a huge fan of jacare.. so dont turn this around on me.. your hating.. and your wrong.
30-27
No questions asked. Complete domination. Villasenor had nothing to offer. 10/10 times that they fight, Jacare wins
Joey impressed me with his heart. He got up from mount and he continued to press forward, even after he was getting dominated. But the announcers were making it seem like the decision was in jeopardy. He did well, just not that well.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
i dont think they were trying to say the decision was in jepordy
what they were trying to say is that a guy in mma known for his hands.. if allowed to get up enough might be able to pull off a upset ko/tko. thats it nothing more. they are selling the fight. jacare Got jacked with a big 2 down the middle.. he survived but.. at the time.. in the situation.. fighting a standup guy that keeps getting up.. it wasnt good for jacare.
umm your stating what everyone me including knew and know
it was not total domination.. jacare used his grappling to get a big 10-8 round but didnt do an amazing amount of damage.. 2nd round he won but only with TD joey broke his nose and started to look good at the end of the round.. last round both fighters were gassed.. joey got his in.. jacare got his td but nothing more than some gnp.. like I STATED it was a total win for jacare on the card.s. but those that WATCHED the fight knew that if joey had it in him to light jacare up in the 3d it would have been much closer ..
My vote goes to Joey Styles and Joel Gertner
Seriously though, they should just put in the guys that do the challengers cards.
Mauro annoys me sometimes but Gus and Frank are just awful to listen to.
When the show started and I heard Gus’ voice start the intro I cringed. I really do prefer Mauro, Militech and Creepy Guy that do the Challenger shows. =/
The Generic Music, nuff said.
If theyre gonna do the ramp they need to do it right. Dream/Pride style. It looks so bush league.
Changing the commentary (mainly Frank), getting rid of or fully embracing the ramp, generic music and adding an undercard fight here and there would go a looooooong way IMO. It really pisses me off because these things arent that hard to do!
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua: UFC LHW CHAMP! Justice is served, 2-0 against Machida!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
At least Strikeforce has compu-strike stats.
by steak_knife on May 16, 2010 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It’s a fine tool for in the moment.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Better than nothing.
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua: UFC LHW CHAMP! Justice is served, 2-0 against Machida!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 16, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, UFC really needs to add them.
Might make Goldie and Joe actually sound legit. Whenever I hear those 2 I feel like they should be calling wrastlin.
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua: UFC LHW CHAMP! Justice is served, 2-0 against Machida!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 16, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
A computer providing someone with numbers provides the individual with legitimacy.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That sounded stupid.
I’m hungover. You know what I mean…
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
BOO!
"My fighting career is getting in the way of my Marijuana smoking" - Nick Diaz
"May 8th, whoop a fraggle" - Paul Daley
Quadros?
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
Hahaha
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
Hah. Killing me.
"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi
by Kaleb Kelchner on May 16, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree completely with the article
The entire broadcast team needs to be overhauled!! The only commentator i think does a good job for strikeforce is miletich even though he still has some improvements to make. The rest of them actually hamper the shows for me, please strikeforce get rid of that damn broadcast team.
If I could rec this article 100000 times I could.
And before all you people say “ZUFFA FANBOY BLA BLA BLA” the only reason a lot of us are so pissed off about this is because we know SF has good fighters and the potential to offer a product that is up there with the UFC. Keeping the prelims off the air really limits the opportunities to introduce us to new fighters and the commentary team is laughable.
If the casuals listen to the Strikeforce commentary
They’ll remain dumb and ignorant about the sport because not one of them educates the viewer like Joe Rogan does or Kenny Florian. Every single one of them should be thrown out.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
They would have to.
Strikeforce needs to do the same. The fucking Muzak that they play just makes the whole production that much more rinky dink.
I was hoping they would at-least pay for Onward to Victory
I know they got Fedor’s theme based off the European broadcast.
I don’t think you have to pay royalties for using the song during a live event, but you do have to pay royalties for using the song on a replay or a DVD. That is why all of the entrances on UFC DVDs are dubbed over with awful generic rock music rather than the songs used during the live PPV.
I think they do have to pay royalties for using songs during the live event. Otherwise it would be utterly stupid for Strikeforce to be using that music they use.
Just BE.
On radio currently there is no royalty in the US but there are in other countries. The law i being changed in the US to bring fees to radio use.
Any time you use the music on TV you have to pay royalies. There is a difference in the fees between using them in a broadcast and in a recording. In either case the fees are not cheap. The fact that the UFC pulls in so much money per show makes it easier for them to afford them.
With a DVD you have to negotiate every song. That is why we are never going to get WKRP on DVD. They are being held hostage by the song owners. I am not sure if every song has to be negotiated separately on TV in the US or if it is a flat fee per song. It gets more tricky because the song is played over the PA at the show and gets picked up by the mics. At least in Canada that is another fee.
But I agree they need to step up and fix this. When Aoki walked out to Baka Survivor (I’m a Survivor) I thought this was fixed. I guess not.
I always though live sporting events were in a separate category, that is usually covered by the arena that needs to pay to play the music to the people there. That’s why live fights get entrances for the UFC while taped prelims, dvds, and unleashed get generic walkouts or start with them in the ring.
Some great quotes from last night...
Half the time most of the fight or general observations would end mid-sentence when they clearly had no idea what they were trying to say.
Post fight (forget which fight)-:
“He really worked with his gamplan so he could implement…….. his gamplan in this match”
_
by Mitchell Alex Powell on May 16, 2010 3:53 PM EDT reply actions
I lost it after "upperhook".
These guys are disgraceful.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
eh...
upperhook is actually something I’ve heard boxing trainers use. I don’t see that one as a big deal.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Leaping uppperhook was pretty funny.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
From Wiki...
Variations of the hook are the shovel hook or upper-hook; they are body punches that combine characteristics of both the hook and the uppercut
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni
Heh. Didn't know. The more you know....
Still, Roger Gracie’s favorite position is the mount? Yeah.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
Yes, but he said “leaping upperhook”. Like Ryu.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Awesome
Except, we both know that’s not how you do it.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
by Charles Awad on May 16, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
And people complain about Frank Mir
being partisan. Shamrock was practically waving flags and pom-poms. Partisan be thy name.
certified warlord
I swear he had money on the fights.
He almost convinced himself that Villasenor won the decision.
by HappyLittleTreez on May 16, 2010 4:22 PM EDT reply actions
Well done Brookhouse, my sentiments exactly.
I was both appalled and frustrated with announcing team. Their blatant cheerleading and gross inaccuracy during these fights is something that can’t be tolerated by the Strikeforce/ Showtime brass. And to think, these guys are there to “educate” the less informed. That really is just sad.
Good and entertaining event, all in all
But as usual these idiots doing commentary pisses everyone off. They need to get rid of the whole team ASAP. Why doesn’t Gus Johnson ever smile? Why does he have the demeanour of a dead zombie ghost when interviewing fighters after they won? I’ve never watched other sports he supposedly does commentary for, but it’s blatantly obvious he shouldn’t be anywhere near a MMA broadcast ever again. I don’t care if he’s good at commentating basket, handcone, or whatever. He sucks at this gig, end of story.
And then we have Frank Shamrock… master of bias, self-promoting, being wrong in general, looking and sounding like a complete retard. Damn.. I think that’s enough, he has me pissed just thinking about it. Mauro Renaldo is not very good either.
I'm getting to be a big fan of Guy Metzger's work with Schiavello on HDnet
Maybe SF can work on getting them on loan.
Guy is actually a guy who doesn’t get enough credit. He’s very good.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely.
One of those first generation fighters who have gone on to work behind the scenes,and sometimes in front, to move the sport forward.
He was extremely awkward at first but I think with some more time he could be the “next guy”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Regarding the commentary on Arlovski/Silva
During the Arlovski/Silva fight the first round was a surprise as Silva was countering Two of the judges, as well as myself, gave Arlovski the second round and I actually had him with a slight edge in the third before Silva took him down late in the round and did enough work to take a decision. From the commentary you’d assume that the scorecards should have read 72-14.
And, paradoxically, you would assume the same thing if you read Kid Nates article right after the fight, which was headlined with “Silva utterly destroys Arloski” – http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/5/15/1473907/strikeforce-heavy-artillery
Its funny, because when I first started reading it I thought Arlovski did another zing chin dump in the 1st round.
by SimplePsych on May 16, 2010 6:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Two simple solutions for the Strikeforce broadcast. Unfortunately it is on Showtime and CBS, not Strikeforce to make them happen. More pre-fight highlights. The casual viewer has not seen Pride, Bellator or KOTC. Even if you don’t have the rights, air a photo, pan it and offer a little background. The viewers need to know why these fights are important.
Second tip, make Gus Johnson and Frank Shamrock the B team and Miletich/Quadros the A team. Renallo is fine where he is. Use Johnson/Shamrock sparingly, and go with the A team that is actually the best MMA broadcasting crew in the business.
Production problems solved. Bonus tip C, revive the partnership with Hulu or Yahoo, two entities that are not going to wilt under heavy traffic, to air select prelim and or swing fights. You can even charge for them. Just put them online so the online mma soap opera commentators will quite biotching.
The thing that I find mind boggling about the prelims...
is that they are relatively easy money. Even if they film than, but continue to not use them for filler in the broadcast, over time they can easily be used to make compilation shows like UFC Unleashed. Easy money.
He’s not perfect, but I’ll take Pat Miletich over Frank Shamrock for sure. At least Pat doesn’t annoy me and doesn’t show quite as much favoritism. He’s already on the Challengers shows, just move him over.
Gus Johnson is just terrible. Why he’s even there is beyond me. It’s not like MMA requires a 3 man team. Get. Rid. Of. Him.
I had to listen to him repeatedly call Mousasi “GAY-HARD” on CBS. Miserable. Also, every time he says “knuckle game…” just ugh.
Mauro…I don’t know, the guy’s just not very good. I still can’t get past how he’s started stealing Schiavello’s lines as well. He didn’t do it last night, but he’s done it at Strikeforce: Miami and the CBS show. Calling Lashley “not Adonis, but THE Donis” for example.
Honestly, I wish SF would work something out to bring Schiavello and Mezger on board. That’s easily the best commentary team outside the UFC right now, IMO, even if Mezger seems to be doing it less these days.
"I'd like to have an honest fight with an alien. If it had six arms, it would be difficult to strike with them, but if it has legs like a human, I could submit it with leg-locks."
-Ikuhisa Minowa
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua: The True UFC Light Heavyweight Champion
by Alex_Evans on May 16, 2010 8:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Worst commentary in mma period. They took away from what was a surprisinly enjoyable event. I find Mauro too distracting in his intensity. Frank is just Frank… awful broadcaster… completely biased, poor commentary and misrepresents things that are happening. He always seems like he is trying to get his mouth around the words he is trying to say. Maybe his braces are stopping him from being able to speak properly. Gus Johnson just makes me put my head in my hands and cry. I just want to punch him in the face, especially after his comments after the last strikeforce event.
I sincerely hope that Strikeforce recognizes this as a rather large deficiency and corrects this soon. This was a pretty good card that at times was overshadowed by Frank Shamrock & Associates Inc.
"Frank is just Frank… awful broadcaster… completely biased"
the funny, and destructive, thing about Frank’s bias is that he is primarily pro-Frank…no matter who is fighting. He takes every chance to talk down his previous opponents, even when they are not even the two guys in the cage at the time.
Let alone give an honest and insightful description of the events in the cage…which, strangely enough, is what he is paid for.
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