Myth: Heavyweight is the Weakest Division
by cyph on May 16, 2010 11:43 AM EDT
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There is this myth often repeated by fans as if it was an actual accepted universal truth. Nothing is further from it.. Currently, the heavyweight division, inside and outside the UFC is the best and most exciting division in all of MMA. Take this lineup, for example:
| Non-UFC | UFC |
|---|---|
| Fedor | Lesnar |
| Overeem | Carwin |
| Werdum | Valasquez |
| Barnett | Mir |
| Arlovski | JDS |
| Antonio Silva | Nog |
| Aleks Emelienenko | Gonzaga |
| Monson | CroCop |
What other division out there has just a solid lineup inside and out of the UFC? Additionally, what other divisions out there has the 2nd, 3rd, 4th guy in the division with the ability to beat the champion? At least in the UFC, Carwin, Valasquez and JDS all have the potential to beat Lesnar. On the other side, Overeem has a very good chance of dethroning the unbeatable Fedor. Even if it doesn't happen, these potential fights will sure to be competitive and exciting until the inevitable submission or KO. In the heavyweight division, competitive fights tend to end inside of one or two rounds.
The heavyweight division has more "named guys" than any other division. Where else can you find a guy who hasn't lost in ten years? What other division has the biggest PPV draw in MMA? What other division has a mixture of K-1 level strikers, Jujitsu wizards and several NCAA wrestling champs or near champs all in the mix?
Compare this division with the LHW division where there's been a carousel of champions, albeit with some extremely talented fighters. Even though there are just as many talented guys in the division, it's hard to say that the division is more exciting or have better up and coming fighters than the heavyweight division. There isn't a top LHW fighter outside of the UFC, and the ones who are in the UFC are fairly dominant. When we move to middleweight, welterweight, and lightweight divisions, the heavyweight division fare much better. Who is there to challenge Anderson Silva? Welterweight? Other than Koscheck, there really isn't anybody there to challenge GSP. Lightweight? The current champion notwithstanding, there isn't that many challengers for the top spot either, and the talent falls precipitously after the first 4 spots.
The often mentioned weakest and least skilled division is nothing more than that--a myth, perpetrated by fans who can only regurgitate old and stale information. They will claim that these fighters record is pretty slim; while that's true, it's really about quality not quantity. A guy who's 10-1 is likely a far better fighter than one that's 30-15. Not only that, but every guy is either a KO artist, a submission specialist, a GnP machine or a combination of these skills. Most of their wins are in one way or another, violent and conclusive--something that can't be said for most other divisions.
I think it's time we drop this notion that the heavyweight division is the least talented. It may be true 2-3 years ago, but the current state of the division shows that it's one of the best if not the best division in all of MMA. Heavyweight has always been the money division, and its now more true than ever.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Couldn't disagree more
HW is shallow
As to the lists above: Monson, Arlovski and Crocop are steeply declining; Aleks and Barnett haven’t had any relevant competition in some time, and remain unlikely to do so; one begins to wonder if Gonzaga and Mir will ever be able to overcome the specific weaknesses in their respective games that have cost them time and again.
More importantly, the ranks of other HW’s moving up to fill the spots currently occupied by limited and/or shot fighters are very bare, in an absolute sense and in a sense relative to other division.
You’re cherry picking the bottom of the barrel to dispute my point. Compare the #9 and #10 in Overeem and Werdum VS the #9 and #10 in Welterweight: Matt Hughes and Martin Kampmann. Overeem and Werdum are better at this point in their career than the current Matt Hughes and Kampmann.
Werdum is more than a one trick pony
Like every other fighter, he has a clear strength, but to suggest that’s all he has is an understatement. He’s one decisions and TKOs with tools other than his BJJ, right?
Being overrated is overrated.
You’re cherry picking the bottom of the barrel to dispute my point.
I don’t think it constitutes “cherry picking the bottom of the barrel” when you put those “bottom of the barrel” examples in your article in the first place to illustrate the “depth” of the HW division. You shouldn’t have included those guys on your list in the first place if you couldn’t defend them.
Cherry-picking would be if he’d pointed out that Ray Mercer and Tim Sylvia are both Top-25 ranked HWs. Or pointing out that Ray Mercer is ranked the same at HW that the Korean Zombie is at FW.
What’s more, HW has so many “name” guys because they get promoted so much. Sean Sherk is a former UFC Champion who is on much less of a death spiral than Andrei Arlovski, but who’s the bigger name?
I'm new to the behind the scenes element of MMA
Can you please inform me of what/when happened to Sean?
Google Ron Paul!
It is the least deep in my opinion. They are the least skilled, and outside of the top ten the talent falls off SHARPLY. If you think about it from a demographic standpoint how many people are large enough to be HWs? 1 out of 20? By virtue of the very fact that it is rare for someone to be so incredibly large there is a much smaller pool of fighters to draw from than a more average sized division like welterweight.
The heavyweight division has more “named guys” than any other division. Where else can you find a guy who hasn’t lost in ten years? What other division has the biggest PPV draw in MMA? What other division has a mixture of K-1 level strikers, Jujitsu wizards and several NCAA wrestling champs or near champs all in the mix?
How about every single division? Beyond that being a HW with those credentials is far less impressive than being a 174 lb wrestling champion, for example.
Other than Koscheck, there really isn’t anybody there to challenge GSP.
Just because a division has a dominant champion doesn’t mean it’s not deep. Brock Lesnar is nowhere near the level of GSP in any facet of MMA.
Most of their wins are in one way or another, violent and conclusive—something that can’t be said for most other divisions.
Higher finishing percentage at HW means very little in terms of their skill, obviously bigger, stronger men will have more KO power and getting finished could also be a byproduct of less skilled/conditioned opposition.
I agree that other divisions are deeper. There are far more smaller guys than huge guys. There’s nothing that can change that. What I argue is that it’s just as talented and exciting, more so than other divisions.
You chose the #2 ranked guy to compare him with the #1 guy in welterweight. Would you say that Fedor is equal and as dominant as GSP? Fedor is also more well-rounded, able to finish from the stand up or on the ground. The guy who beat him will be also be equally good. There are a lot of talented guys in the division, and just because the human race couldn’t create enough huge men at a fast enough rate doesn’t make it less so.
Frankly it’s impossible to compare individual fighters across different weight divisions and accurately predict how their skills would translate. I only talked about GSP because you mentioned dominant champs as evidence that lighter weight divisions were weaker.
What other division out there has just a solid lineup inside and out of the UFC?
Based on our rankings. 12 heavyweights in the top 25 outside of the ufc, 12 middleweights in the top 25 outside the ufc, 12 lightweights in the top 25 outside the ufc.
I’d say that the bottom end of the middleweights and lightweights are much better than heavyweight.
Regardless, heavyweight is pretty solid and still getting better. The depth will come with time.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 16, 2010 12:17 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
It’s that lack of depth that makes heavyweight so weak. The top 10 to 15 is very competent fighters but after that you get into some head scratchers and outside of the top 25 there really isn’t anyone at all making much of an impression. Still heavyweight is a much better division than it was even a year ago and is improving faster than the other divisions are.
Mitrione, Schaub, Duffee, Del Rosario. Just naming a couple out of the top 25 that are making an impression.
What about the quality of fighters in the bottom 20?
Barnett, Arlovski, Gonzaga, Kongo, Aleks, Antonio Silva, Pedro Rizzo, CroCop, Nelson, and Tim Sylvia in HW. Swick, Hieron, Serra, Condit, Shields, Hornbuckle, Zaromski, Pierce, Gono, and Johnson in Welterweight.
There are former champs and up and comer in the heavyweight division. Other than Shields and Johnson, I would say that there are better fighters in HW in Barnett, Gonzaga, Kongo, Silva, and Nelson. I can see Barnett, Silva, and Nelson perhaps entering the top ten at some point. I’m not sure about anyone other than Shields and Johnson.
I think you're mixing
Exciting with depth. HW is one of the Shallowest divisions. This will more then likely always be the case for a few reasons. Namely How many men do you know walking around at well over 240? Anything under that is probably competing at LHW more often then not. There are more men walking around and training in martial arts that could compete Lightweight- Welterweight than any other weight class. Hence the lack of DEPTH in the HW division.
Couple that with the fact that due to mass, there is always going to be a deficit of training partners for HW’s (look at wrestling, judo, bjj ect) and you will normally find a more limited skill set. Not to say HW’s wont be great. But it’s going to take several years before we see guys with the skill sets of Shogun Rua and Anderson Silva.
HW is a very exciting division right now. But heavy weight lacks depth. A dominant champion is not indicative of a lack of depth. Scout out your local mma scene and you will be hard pressed to see the skills displayed at HW that you see in any of the lighter weight classes. For a lighter fighter to make his amature debut he must display much greater technical proficiency as well as better conditioning. At the top the HW division is exciting, at the bottom it’s bare. This is not the same for the other weight classes.
When I reference HW division as the weakest it’s with these things in mind (Lack of competitors, Lack of technical proficiency, and toward the bottom weaker conditioning). This isn;t to say all HW have weak skillsets, obviously toward the top, the guys are monsters, nor do I think all HW’s are poorly conditioned, thats toward the bottom as well. The fact that people can be competitive despite this is what makes me say HW is the weakest division in mma. Couple that with the fact that I think most LHW at the top could beat most HW at the top.
Big athletic guys also tend to excel at traditional sports and end up as professional baseball, basketball, football or hockey players.
by capital L on May 16, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great point
and one I didn’t even think of. Definitely another major reason that the HW division will always be hardpressed to find depth.
Shallow does not equal weak. The fact is that you can’t compare the speed and quickness of lighter fighters with heavier fighters. There are plenty of talented fighters out there in the heavyweight division. When guys carry around 260+ pounds of weight, their quickness and agility suffers, so you won’t get guys like GSP or Anderson Silva. You have to look at it in terms of dominance between fighters of the same weight and the newer fighters are coming up are huge, strong, with deadly KO power. Just because they don’t move like a Jose Aldo does not make them any less skilled.
It’s silly to say that just because there is a pool of 50 welterweight versus a pool 30 heavyweights, one division is weaker than the other. The top 10 heavyweights compares favorably versus the top 10 in any other division. There is decidedly a different set of strength and skill when judging heavyweight fighters. Heavyweight fighters would dominate any other weight class in an open weight tournament, so judging “skill set” from one division versus the other just doesn’t make much sense. We have to look at the weight class on its own merit and compare fighters side by side and how they stack up among their peers. Would the top 10 in the division have the skills that separates them from the rest of the division? Yes, I believe so. Then what constitutes the division as “weak” other than being shallow which will always be the case for the heavyweight division? If we look closer, I don’t think it’s weak at all. It will (or has already) become the best in terms of excitement, skills, and ability to sell PPV. On that term alone, the HW division is top of its class. Anything else is pure speculation and opinion.
Shallow does equal weak.
When your top 10 is all you have to base your assumption on, that leaves much to be desired. How is a division in which outside of this small pool of men, several of whom are on their way out, your strongest? I would say the division where climbing up each rung is an absolute war is the toughest. That would be the lighter weight classes.
Nextly, you are sorely mistaking if you think Heavyweights take an open weight tournament. LHW’s would. They have the best mixture of pure KO power and speed. Your Jon Jones’ and shoguns would be the dominant fighters.
In what world are heavyweights as skilled as the other weight classes? HW’s resemble fighters from the previous era, they all, for the most part have clear cut paths to victory. They are the least rounded of most modern mixed martial artist. Have you ever seen what happens when a LHW trains with a HW??? Normally the HW can’t deal with the speed or technique. The difference in power is negligible at best.
A division where cracking the top 10 is hard to do and where the top 20 is nearly as competitive is a tough division. This is not the heavy weight division.
The only Person in HW selling ppv’s is Lesnar.
The only two open weight tournaments ever staged by Pride were won by heavy weights. There’s the facts. If you have any other facts, I’d like to hear it. Everything you stated above are your opinion.
look at the competitors
they were mostly hw. odds were that a hw would win. not to mention many of the top dogs from lighter weights didnt compete. weak reference.
I think it is entirely fair to judge the strength of a division, relative to other divisions, by the depth of talent. That is exactly how such comparisons have traditionally been made regarding different weight classes in prizefighting and for that matter when comparing various divisions, leagues and promotions within traditional sports.
Well, I think I’ve conceded that there is less depth at heavyweight. My argument was not about depth but the talent in the top 25 is just as good as any divisions. I think you and others are arguing “weak” as depth as on ranks 25-50. So I’m not going to beat this horse any longer because we’re all arguing semantics on something that we don’t agree on the definitions. My definition: talent; your definition: depth.
talent can be debated
all day long. As you stated above, we wont know without a tourney. I can tell you based on experience though, your more technical fighters are your lighter guys… there are exceptions.
But on your point here, I can agree.
Shallow does equal weak because we are talking about entire divisions not just individual fighters. The more good fighters in a division the better the division as a whole is, heavyweight has some of the best fighters in the world but there just isn’t a lot of talent filling out the entire division and that is where it’s weakness comes from. Top ten/top 25 talent is only one aspect of a division as a whole, you can’t judge an entire division just on the small handful of fighters at the top.
I don’t see anyone in the HW division standing up with Overeem and it getting them farther then on there back…….
His standup is unreal…. he’s fast, great kicks, great hands, and his knees are like a missile hitting a man.
Dos Santos
Would KO him bad. Lesnar takes him and I would pick mir over him. A win over Rogers (who has no ground game to speak of), isn’t saying much. Rogers was also extremely gunshy in this one. You act as if Overeem has never been knocked out. He has been flat out KTFO on several occaisions.
by JaeeJaee on May 16, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You think Mir and Lesnars stand up is par with Overeems? I never said he would beat these people I said noone is standing up with him.
by Brennan Linn on May 16, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
People really need to read before making a comment. Geez..
by Brennan Linn on May 16, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I would def take
Dos santos to him standing. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Mir Ko’d him. if the mir that fought kongo shows and not the Mir that fought Carwin.
And back to my Point… your precious Overeem was KOed by Badr Hari recently in K-1. Hence people will stand with him and he will be banged out.
yeah he got knocked down by hari, it wasnt mma though he could have thrown hari down like 30 times in that fight, and after he got up from the knockdown he was still standing after that kick when the fight got stopped…. hari is an incredible kickboxer and overeem lost to him in a sport where its all standup, still doesnt discount overeems stand up as an mma fighter, cause there isnt a heavyweight in mma with stand up compariing to badr hari…plus overeem ko’d hari as well…
by Brennan Linn on May 16, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
JDS maybe, Carwin has never faced a striker even close to Overeem.
by Brennan Linn on May 17, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If he doesn’t clip his opponent first.. Hes a vet, he has that over anyone we have named. Far more.
by Brennan Linn on May 17, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
The truth is on the other side.
Nothing comes close to 145lbs at this point in time. 145lbs is awesome in every organization that has that division or one approximate to it (I’m looking at you, DREAM).
Oh, you can make a lot of arguments for HW or any of the standard weight classes, with lists and names and numbers and scenarios and comparisons and all that..
My only argument for 145lbs is: I stopped even caring who’s fighting. It doesn’t matter. The chance it’s going to be a great fight is about 95% regardless of who is fighting or which org I’m watching, just because it’s at 145lbs.
After I started introducing friends, long time UFC and PRIDE fans (casual and devoted), to the lighter weight classes, they’ve all begun to sound the same after every UFC or Strikeforce event: “Yeah… it was good I guess. I dunno, I’ve been so spoiled by all the WEC and Shooto we’ve been watching lately, my standards are so high now…”
135lbs and below are also safe bets, but 145lbs in particular shines right now.
Don’t take my word for it, go watch some small guys.
Quickly, name the top 10 145’er without looking it up. If you can do it, that’s good. Most people couldn’t. They’re exciting fighters, but is it really “deep”? We just saw a former champ KO’ed by non-top ten. It seems that any 155’er cutting down to 145 automatically becomes competitive. Can we say the same for a HW cutting down to LHW? Not that long ago, Faber, Brown, and Torres (135) was pound for pound ranked because of their “dominance.” How quickly they crashed down to earth. The divisions are too young and not established enough for the elite to rise to the top. The deep pool, I think, is an illusion.
why do you push rankings so hard?
Thats all subjective. In the lighter weight classes that happens because there is so much talent outside of the top ten due to DEPTH that you cant possibly rank all fighters who should be ranked “top ten”. This is exactly why your HW division is the weakest. THERE IS NO DEPTH. meaning there are only so many match ups and once all the up and comers iron everything out in the next year or two the division will be as stale as ever.
“My” division? I don’t own any division. You taking this a little personal? You keep saying “talent” outside as if this is a fact. This is all your opinion. There are always talent out there, regardless of divisions.
You argue as if the next two years, there will be no heavyweights coming into it. NCAA champs, guys like Todd Duffe who’s not even ranked right now are coming in. This is a new era of MMA, you speak as if the HW division is static. Who was JDS two years ago? Who was Lesnar? Two years ago, he was an over-hyped WWE star that fans dismissed. Who is Carwin? Valasquez? Rogers? Look back two years and you didn’t even see these guys anywhere in the top 25 let alone top 10. Amazing what two years can bring.
I’m pretty sure Manny was ranked around eight so he was top ten.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Which doesn’t negate my point that the 145 and 135 are in a state of flux. A 155 who’s no where in the top ten is #8 when he droped to 145, then quickly KO’ing the former #1.
the reason is because these lower weight divisions haven't been available
or prioritized in the same way for as long.
Also, Manny had already fought at 145, and beaten Garcia (who may have been ranked) and i believe had another fight afterwards
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I think I disagree on your definition of deep. Apparently the 135 division isn’t deep because no one is dominant, and the 170 division isn’t deep because GSP is dominant? 135 is one of the deepest divisions because so many of the fighters in that weight class could be top 10 if not #1.
In a deep pool you have a long list and everyone in it is almost as talented as the guy above them. So if the pool is deep it shouldn’t be unheard of for a non-top 10 guy to beat a champ because they are all competitive with each other.
Depth also doesn’t have anything to do with relative skill to another division, that’s a different argument. If 145’ers can drop to 135 and destroy the division it doesn’t mean it wasn’t deep before they showed up, a division can be competitive within itself even if somewhere else exists better.
Heavy weight is coming around but
How many other divisions had a fighter win a world title in his fourth career fight? Heavyeeight as a lot of prospects and a rapidly aging old guard. Is it exciting? Yes, but that’s just because it hasn’t yet been established. These fighters are all trying to make there own name.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
THIS
As i’ve been crying out for the past few weeks….
There is plenty of movement in the HW division right now, making it possibly the most exciting division.
Excitement is not indicative of Depth or Talent. HW is and will always be among the weakest divisions. Thats life Look at all combat sports and tell me I’m wrong. You may have “larger than life” champions from time to time, but historically in combat sports Hw’s always have huge deficits. MMA will be no different.
The MMA landscape when Lesnar won the championship versus now is a very different. Carwin, Valasquez, and JDS were still up and comers at that point in time.
There is plenty of movement in the HW division right now, making it possibly the most exciting division
We can agree on this. I would not be surprised to see it has “depth” within two years as well.
Depth will absolutely grow
with the sport. But just because people simply dont walk around that big, there are less “potential fighters” at Hw. This means a smaller pool to become actual fighters. Thats why hw division is weak.
I still think that’s a pretty “weak” definition. If by actual pool of fighters and your definition, then I would argue that the 145, 135, and 125lbs are the weakest. If you take a bell curve, then all the out of average weight classes are weak. A weight division where fighters are routinely 5’6 and shorter weighing 145lbs and lower will draw from a smaller pool as well. The strongest should be the welterweight division because, well, that’s closest to the biggest pool of average people out there. Your theory has holes.
Most sports, the biggest and best athletes are at 200+ lbs so there goes the notion of the limited pool. Top athletes follow the money trail. With the money coming in MMA, the fighters will surely follow. We’ve seen in Lesnar, Carwin, Valasquez, etc. More will surely come.
firstly
I never claimed 145 was the deepest division. I haven’t named a weight class yet. If I had to itd be lightweight or welterweight. Despite what you thing the average person falls somewhere between the two weight classes before cutting.
Nextly, you say sports, I say combat sports. In COMBAT SPORTS your 200+ pound guys are seldom seen as the best, because they seldom are. The best combatants posses a mixture of strength and speed. HW is far too deep on the strength end of the spectrum.
Also… IDK what your mma experience is, but it normally works in cycles. 2 years from now the HW division will have a clear cut heirarchy and a prospect or two may come along to shake up the division every so often, but its not a daily or even annual occurrence. In 2 years we may see some new guys comming up to the plate, but we’ll have a pretty good idea of who’s where.
Lastly, my arguments are based on conventional wisdom and gym experience, as a bigger competitor. Whether MT, BJJ, Judo or wrestling, the best guys in the gym are seldom your HW’s.
Back to the one point you seem to keep ignoring, the HW’s are the minority. Yes, even compared to some of the lighter weight classes. You will find many countries all over the world where people are naturally smaller then americans, less behemoths. In any of the gyms I go to, I can find a few 135 pounders, more 145 guys and so on as we go up. As far as HW’s, they are few and far between. Go check for yourself. I’ve been to a few schools, and everywhere I’ve been, its the same.
by JaeeJaee on May 16, 2010 7:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They are still up and comers.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on May 16, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree.
I was thinking of doing a fanpost too about this but didnt have enough time for research.
Some of my main points why HW is not the weakest division.
1. During the early days of the sport when it didnt had divisions, after Coleman and Frye dominated the UFC tourneys, it was apparent that we the big guys had to be separated from the smaller fighters. Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz (once dominant champions) can be HWs but because they know that the Rizzos and Barnetts would have had them defeated. Rashad Evans was a HW but the Kongos of the division would have him defeated, cutting weight was necessary. Case #1: Its tough to be in the HW division, that it is why it is not deep.
2. Since the finish ratio in the HW division is the highest of all, winning in this division is the most impressive IMO. No matter how good you are in wrestling or jiu jitsu, the danger of a Knockout is always present. Cruising for a win in the HW div has the least occurence compared to the other division. Case #2: Constantly winning in this division is the hardest due to the fact the perverbial chance of being knocked out is at its highest.
3. It is simply the least number of humanity who weighs more than 205 pounds and have the ability to professionally fight. It is the easiest to train a lighter person and become a legit fighter. Being 260 pounds and athletic enough to fight are hard to find. Brett Rogers’ first 10 wins are more impressive than Bisping’s first ten. Why? Bisping had less to worry about the hands of his opponents compared to Rogers. As we track back these fights, they were suppose to win those fights, but Rogers, imo, had a tougher road to those wins.
I just don’t have enough time to make further research on my stand, I know they are somewhat unclear without hardcore facts. They revolve in these ideas though.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
This is curious...
What other division has a mixture of K-1 level strikers, Jujitsu wizards and several NCAA wrestling champs or near champs all in the mix?
Well, there’s middleweight.
Striking: Anderson Silva, Melvin Manhoef.
BJJ: Demian Maia, Jacare, Xande Ribeiro
Wrestling: Dan Henderson, Matt Lindland, Chael Sonnen, Mark Munoz, Jake Shields
Or LHW:
Striking: Shogun, Machida.
BJJ: Roger Gracie
Wrestling: Phil Davis, King Mo.
That’s quick off the top of my head. Others can finish this up.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Those points aren’t bad, but I would say for middle weight xande, manhoef, linland, and possibly (and if so regrettably) henderson are not truly relevant.
for LHW, I honestly don’t see Roger going anywhere after his fight with Randelman.
HW has great practitioners from all backgrounds in the very front of the division. I see where you are coming from though.
Not really...
You can take away some of my examples at MW but the point stands. If we only count relevant guys, heavyweight has one K1 level striker (Overeem) and one “BJJ wizard” (Werdum). For wrestling there is a Div I champ (Lesnar), a Div II champ (Carwin), and an All American (Cain). The list ends there.
To your last paragraph: Being accomplished at heavyweight of a combat sport simply means less. Grappling tournaments illustrate this very well. Guys like Monson can do great in the HW division but don’t do as well in the Absolutes… where dudes like Jacare, Braulio Estima, and Xande overcome a size disadvantage because they are just better. Being better credentialed at HW doesn’t mean much when you’re trying to compare to other weight classes.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Yeah, that argument means absolutely nothing. Middleweight, which is largely considered a weak division, is filled with former NCAA wrestlers. You have that list plus guys like Jake Rosholt come to mind. Its packed.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on May 17, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
this is true
bantamweight, featherweight, and flyweight are
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
Those lists in the article are pretty weak. I guess you can point toward a couple of other divisions that are as shallow or arguably more. But those lists don’t help your case. Cro Cop and Arlovski are done; they are only on any lists now b/c of nostalgia. A couple other guys are pretty one-dimensional and several are not good enough to be ranked so high on a list for any reason other than the choices being limited. Not to mention any fighter that fails a ‘roid test multiple times and can’t fight in the states should not be listed by anything credible.
"Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'' - Ali
cro cop and arlovski???
wtf? how about monson? the last guy to lose to Pedro Rizzo……. twice!
Talk about overrated, Monson is #5 HW according to Fight! Magazine……
by LeeroyJenkin$ on May 18, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
lol'ed at the Bugs Bunny pic
perfectly illustrates the article.
"If your going to come on then come on!" - Harold Howard
I like how your lists include a bunch of has-beens and never-weres.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on May 17, 2010 11:00 PM EDT reply actions
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