Shu Hirata Talks Shinya Aoki, Yoshiyuki Yoshida and the State of Japanese MMA
Daniel Herbertson talks to Shu Hirata, manager of Takeya Mizugaki and Yoshiyuki Yoshida, about Shinya Aoki:
...Aoki's fighting style is very risky to begin with and also, this is not to protect him or anything, but his strategy is not suitable for today's five-minute rounds and the 10-point must scoring system. His fight style is suitable for an unlimited time bout where judges score the entire bout (as in PRIDE or DREAM), not by rounds. His fight style is to look for that one or two opportunities to submit the opponent just like Royce Gracie did when he fought Kimo in the primitive era of MMA. In that fight Royce got beat up but yet won the fight with an armbar.
I mean, if you want to be really ultimate about it, Aoki's fight style is suitable for fighting in an open field with no judges. Fighters fight till one of them submits or gets knocked out kinda thing. He would be suitable for fighting in a place like Ganryu Island where Misashi Miyamoto faced Kojiro Sasaki. But we all know this is a modern era of MMA. So I am not surprised that Aoki got dominated because he has never really kept up with what has been taking place in the North America for the past ten years or so.
About Aoki's claim that if he lost, Japan would become an MMA "colony" of the USA:
You know, I've had dinner with Aoki so I know him and I think he is a good guy but I am going to say something very critical because I like the guy. Who the hell do you think you are? Really, who said that you are the representative of Japan?
While he was taking a safe path, the guys like Yushin Okami, Ryo Chonan, Akihiro Gono, Yoshiro Maeda, Kuniyoshi Hironaka, Keitaro Nakamura, Dokonjonosuke Mishima, Mitsuhiro Miura, Yoshiyuki Yoshida, Kazuhiro Nakamura, Takeya Mizugaki and recently Takanori Gomi, and of course, many others, bravely stepped up and went to the real "Major League" called the UFC/WEC. Sure only few of them are still surviving in there but these guys are the fighters that carried the Japanese flag on their shoulders.
All Aoki did was, walked on a safe, glorious path created by DREAM and fought in Strikeforce, which is not necessarily the certified "Major League" of MMA. He is not walking on the tough road. Its like while Ichiro and Matusi are playing in the MLB, he was making a special appearance in some Canadian or Carribean baseball league. So for him to say Japan has become a MMA colony of the States just because he got beat by Melendez is a big insult to guys like Okami, Mizugaki and Yoshida who are still fighting and winning enough to stay in the big leagues.
Hirata also discusses the need for Japanese fighters to modernize their training and nutrition regimes to compete with the American and Brazilian fighters.
And he wraps up with a simple, but difficult to achieve, prescription for reviving MMA in Japan:
Look at MLB. its very popular in Japan now because there are Japanese stars that are doing well - like Ichiro and Matsui. But in the UFC or WEC, we still haven't seen Ichiro or Matsui yet. Think of it this way: if GSP or Anderson Silva were Japanese, then they would be all over the Japanese TV by now and even an old lady in the deep woods of Yamagata prefecture would know what the UFC is. So fighters are the ones that can really change everything. Even only one Japanese champ might be able to change everything. We need Japanese Tiger Woods in the UFC then everything would fall into the places for the entire industry.
Hirata also talks to Mike Chiappetta about his fighter Yoshiyuki Yoshida and his potential move down to lightweight after being cut from the UFC:
That decision reflects the current conditions of Japanese MMA now," he said, adding that Yoshida believes he can earn more money elsewhere.
With a direction in mind, now the question will be whether Yoshida drops to lightweight or continues on as a welterweight. It is a debate which Yoshida had even before being offered the Guymon fight, and one that will be ongoing in the near future.
"Fifteen pounds is a huge drop, and it's better to drop it slowly," Hirata said. "He felt it was risky to try immediately, so he decided to stick with 170, but now he feels he should consider it."
I'm surprised that Hirata didn't include the need to master weight cutting techniques in his litany of ways for Japanese MMA fighters to improve. Look at Yoshida's losses in the UFC -- 2/3 of them came against powerhouses Josh Koscheck and Anthony Johnson. Both are men who come from a wrestling background where they learned to cut a lot of weight and put it back on by fight time. Johnson in particular is a behemoth for the 170lb division.
Hirata is currently scouting Japanese high school judo and wrestling champions who will be willing to relocate to the U.S. to train and start their MMA careers. I certainly find that an exciting prospect. While there have been some truly legendary Japanese fighters in MMA -- Kazushi Sakuraba, Takanori Gomi, KID Yamamoto, Mach Sakurai, Rumina Sato, Caol Uno, Genki Sudo, etc -- it's been a while since Japan was regularly producing top-flight fighters.
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This is a ridiculous interesting and refreshing interview.
Shu-san breaks it down. I love how he gets Aoki straight with none of the grandstanding and twice the reality. Very good stuff.
To be fair, he's right in one way.....
If a guy is a submission specialist like Aoki, and the way to beat him is waiting for a ref to stand him up or beating up for a small bit in the standup, if you had infinite time and no ref, he’d be devastatingly good (as in say a real fight).
Of course….that’s not MMA. Which is a problem for him.
if you had infinite time and no ref, he’d be devastatingly good (as in say a real fight)
I rarely see a real fight that happens with infinite time… The police should show up at some point… :P
or when they get medieval...
….with pliers and blow-torches and sh*t!…..
/love this guy giving Aoki the what for….great interview…
by BrothersGottaAndyHug on May 13, 2010 6:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
On the other hand, if it was a real fight with infinite time and no ref...
then Melendez could probably have beat on Aoki relentlessly. Particularly when Aoki tried the buttschoot and Melendez clocked him a good one before the ref intervened, saying he intended to stand them up. It goes both ways.
if you had infinite time and no ref, he’d be devastatingly good (as in say a real fight).
If you give Aoki old-school NHB rules, you have to give him ALL the old school rules.
The best defense for the butt scoot is a swift kick in the nuts, which was legal in those days. So was the headbutt, and it was effective in destroying the guard.
Funny thing
In the Vagabond manga, those are EXACTLY what Miyamoto Musashi resorted to when outnumbered. There’s an interestingly subtext on his fight with the Yoshioka dojo about the nature of “true NHB.”
If there was a Japanese GSP, unless he was in DREAM or K-1, I still don’t see him being that kind of star. The UFC has signed a ton of guys that were once major draws in Japan and is still putting around on WOWOW. I don’t see them developing some great fighter necessarily changing that. It would also be really difficult to get such a fighter before DREAM/K1 gets their claws into them.
That's what he's saying.
The big Japanese star probably won’t go through Dream or K-1 because they haven’t done anything recently do develop homegrown talent as well as they could. The star he’s talking about will do so due to him and his camp.
It would be difficult, but if they do get ahold of someone or develop someone like that it would be huge for the sport oversees. UFC Japan and TUF Japan would be a big deal!!
You know, TUF Japan might just be possible….
They could have Okami and Akiyama be coaches, and have the TUF Japan Finale be UFC’s return show to Japan, with both the TUF final on the card, and Okami vs. Akiyama as the semi-main-event (the main-event would have to be a bit bigger, but whatever). WOWOW, or maybe a bigger network, would air it, and they could release a subtitled version on UFC.com.
I think an TUF Abu Dubai and a TUF Canada are suppsed to be in the works.
I am sure TUF Japan is on the radar. It is probably a little ways away. Really though, if Akiyama can beat Wand and Okami can beat Munoz both fighters will be close to title shots and a match for number 1 contender would make a lot of sense.
The UFC could even squezz a Silva vs Vitor fight in if they really wanted to
Josh Koscheck and Anthony Johnson. Both are men who come from a wrestling background where they learned to cut a lot of weight and put it back on by fight time.
I remember reading somewhere that Koscheck doesn’t cut a lot of weight.
Your point is very valid though.
It seems to me he isn’t as concerned with weight cuttingbecause the basic skills and training aren’t where they need to be.
He did touch a little on weight cutting though, so clearly it is on his radar.
Besides them, I think fighters like Ikuo Usuda and Nobuhiro Obiya could be very competitive if they are willing to cut to 145 lbs. I’ve always believed that Hatsu Hioki could compete at the world’s top level at 145 lbs, as could Lion Takeshi.
Hmmm...
Maybe the savior of Japanese MMA is a manager. That’s smart to recruit high school kids familiar with cutting weight.
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton
by donkeypunch on May 13, 2010 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Akiyam is gonna get beatup by Wand
He looks Tiny as a MW and might need to drop down to compete in the UFC.
Akiyama burned his bridges in japan after the Far East Grease-Gate
it was hard enough as it is for him since he is of Korean ancestry , but that pretty much crossed the line
This interview is REALLY interesting. But he’s right. No matter how much skill some of the Japanese fighters have, there’s just no way they’re going to be able to compete at the highest levels of MMA against people who not only have equal skill but outweigh them by 25lbs. Look at what Tiebau did to Uno.
I think Yoshida could have done well in the LW division of the UFC. 15lbs isnt really that much if done by people who know what they’re doing.
Your style's like garbage cans meant to be taken out on a weekly basis
Ever since your first record you've been in a state of suspended animation
You look like Snuffleuffagus and Australopithecus
Me cray, you abacus
It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Ishii had signed with the UFC and done most of his training in the US, but he just seems to have fizzled.
If Japanese MMA continues to struggle, they’ll probably need to get a japanese person who makes a run in the next olympics and get them to the US to get their mma seasoning. A Japanese person starring at the olympics or other high level events may be enough to make up for the lack of appearing in a big japanese promotion.
I’m hoping Ishii is now on the right track. He’s been training in the US; fought an exhibition match in Hawaii; has a fight against lesser competition in New Zealand; there have been talks of him fighting on the prelims of a Strikeforce card to gain experience; talks that they want to book him against Fujita or Bobby Lashley in Dream. All of these are moves in the right direction so he can work his way up.
Fighters fight till one of them submits or gets knocked out kinda thing. He would be suitable for fighting in a place like Ganryu Island where Misashi Miyamoto faced Kojiro Sasaki. But we all know this is a modern era of MMA
Thats when I knew this was a great interview. =)
"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi
Not really
At least for someone who’s vaguely aware with Japanese cultural history / lore, it’s a pretty distinct image of what he was trying to describe… as in, James Toney’s infamous “original death fighters.” :P
Ishii could have been that star they were looking for. He would have coasted along being fed hand picked fights and then improving. If he developed correctly he could have been in a title picture in 2 and a half years.
He trained in numerous elite camps all over the world for over a year before his debut, and then could not beat journeyman Hidehiko Yoshida. Maybe what he really he needed was a couple of tomato cans to start off his career, but 1) that’s not something he could have gotten in the UFC unless they brought up a low-end LHW to fight him at catchweight ala Kimbo Slice and 2) I don’t see anything in him that suggests he could have been a future title-challenger regardless. What makes you think that? He needs to take hand-picked fights in Japan right now before he even thinks about facing a UFC-level HW.
lol at him pooping on strikeforce
myspace.com/tbma <--- Give it a listen, let me know what you think.
Hi, My name is II SMASH II, and I am an elitist.
by II SMASH II on May 13, 2010 5:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
You think this is somewhat of a jab towards SF or is he keeping it real? Cause in reality, the fighters aren't at UFC level but that CAN get there.....can.....maybe
I think it’s a little of both. Obviously the majority of the best fighters are in the UFC. There is no argument. But this isn’t league sports where if you are not playing in the NFL or NBA it would be impossible to face a comparable caliber of opposition. Take Brett Rogers for example. Is the opposition that Brett has faced (Arlvoski, Fedor, Overeem) any worse than what he could have faced in the UFC? Or has the opposition that Gilbert Melendez, Jake Shields, or Fabricio Werdum faced that much worse than what other fighters are seeing in the UFC? I don’t think so. The UFC definitely offers more options, and makes it easier to calculate your place in the divisional pecking order, but a lot of fighters in Strikeforce have been taking on at least respectable opposition.
With Bobby Lashley being the exception that proves the rule.
Good article.
I will note though that I don’t believe that Kos cuts much weight. In an interview a year or two ago, he said he’s about 175 on fight night.
Hirata speaks English, so probably not.
by Chris Nelson on May 14, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice article. To further one of his points, Yoshiro Akyama and Yushin Okami (I think) both went to American gyms just to be able to learn how to wrestle against the bigger americans. I don’t wanna be stereotypical but they’re smaller in Japan and thats what they were used to. Okami, luckily has adjusted to the size of Americans and Brazilians now.
If only there was a system of weight classes where when two people fought they would actually weigh the same when they fought… too bad
How would Aoki win an unlimited time mma match if he couldn’t win in 25 minutes?
What Aoki needs to do is fight in a ring so that he can get guys to the mat when they are near the ropes and unbalanced. The large size and cornerless nature of the cage makes it easy to play keep away and neutralize him.
How would Aoki win an unlimited time mma match if he couldn’t win in 25 minutes?
…because he would have more time to win…
Round breaks and stand-ups
Are what he’s referring to.
Of course in a field or alley Shinya’s still got Gil on top headbutting and putting his thumbs in his eyes, so who knows.
The one thing Hirata has twisted is saying Aoki doesn’t pay attention to American MMA. From what I hear, he’s basically obsessed with it.
Could be that Aoki follows it but can't put it (and himself) into proper context
And thus isn’t “really” paying attention.
Nice...
He would be suitable for fighting in a place like Ganryu Island where Misashi Miyamoto faced Kojiro Sasaki.
That man is my hero.
Very interesting stuff. I’m glad someone in the land of PRIDE is trying to change things. The lack of highly-ranked Japanese fighters is just ridiculous.

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