Alistair Overeem to Escape Urinalysis? Missouri Coy About Drug Tests
by Jonathan Snowden on May 11, 2010 6:05 PM EDT
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PrintPromoted from the FanPosts by Kid Nate.
This weekend Alistair Overeem makes his triumphant return to Strikeforce, defending his long forgotten Heavyweight title against Brett Rogers live on Showtime. Many have speculated about Overeem's dynamic and seemingly impossible transformation from lithe light heavyweight to rippling heavyweight. There seems to be more interest in whether or not Overeem can pass the steroid test, certainly significantly more interest than whether he can pass the "Brett Rogers" test.
Unlike Nevada, New Jersey, or California, the actual drug testing procedures in Missouri are shrouded in mystery. The law allows for testing, but doesn't specify when or how it can be conducted. What we know for sure is that the fighter has to foot the bill for all tests, likely ruling out any expensive procedures, despite reports elsewhere of cutting edge testing. Earlier today I talked to Tim Lueckenhoff, the Administrator of the Missouri Office of Athletics who told me what he could reveal about Missouri's testing is limited.
The Missouri Office of Athletics is committed to insuring that MMA events are conducted in a fair and safe manner. Contestants are required to submit proof that they are not infected with the HIV virus or hepatitis B or C virus. In addition, we have authority to require any contestant to submit to a drug test or a medical exam. Failure to submit to the drug test, or pass the medical exam may result in our refusal to allow the contestant to participate in the bout, or we may take disciplinary action against their license. Information related to our directive that a contestant submit to a drug test or medical exam in not public information unless we file an action seeking discipline of their license.
Lueckenhoff is aware of Overeem's reputation and says that speculation about this bout has sparked unprecedented interest.
I have spoken to Scott Coker about this issue simply because of the media outcry. He reminded me that Overeem has been tested two times by Strikeforce and each time it has came back negative.
Missouri has tested fighters in the past, usually selected at random from the card, so it is possible Overeem may not even be chosen. Lueckenhoff wouldn't say how they plan to conduct testing for this show, but confirmed Missouri's policy that fighters are responsible for the use of illegal or prescription drugs.
I do not want to tip the fighters off about any type of testing. When we test someone, they are notified minutes prior to the fight and instructed what they must do after the fight which is drink water only, and that an inspector will accompany them from the cage to the location to be given the test.
Overeem seems unconcerned about the testing, and for good reason. Even if he is using steroids or human growth hormone (and he has never tested positive for a banned substance) so are plenty of other top athletes in the sport. The fact remains, at Overeem's pay level, a smart fighter can afford the types of drugs and the type of medical care that would make a drug test failure unlikely. We likely will never know if Overeem used steroids to prepare for his fight with Brett Rogers. But we won't know about any of the other fighters on the card either.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Oh man. This is just a giant headache isn’t it?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Tha'ts what I was thinking
Here fuel meet your new friend fire
by DayGeaux on May 11, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I say screw the test's...
Let’s just roid em’ all up to the gills and throw em’ in the cage. Bigger, faster, stronger is what I say.
Day-man! Fighter of the Night-man! Champion of the sun. You're a master of Karate and friendship for everyone!
"Charlie"
That sucks
I figured if he passed the piss test that might get rid of some of the criticism he’s been getting.
I do think it is unfair for him to be singled out like this.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 11, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
You think it is unfair yet you made the headline ‘Overeem to Escape Urinalysis’ rather than just ‘Missouri Coy About Drug Tests’.
Honestly, the real issue here is the lack of transparency in the Missouri drug testing process. You could have covered the topic without mentioning Overeem at all.
by Steve4192 on May 11, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well even if he wouldn't have said Overeem in the article,
he still would have been the 500 lbs gorilla in the room
Well, I never said was fair. ;) Sometimes you need some sizzle with that T-Bone.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 11, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
horse meat T-Bone
Never before, have I so clearly heard the sound of a face breaking...
by Spinning Fat Kick on May 13, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
It IS unfair to single him out without calling out
Bobby Lashley…
But, if Overeem passes the piss test, and you dont believe that hes on some sort of illegal PED, YOU ARE IGNORANT!!!
by Roll NControl on May 11, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if they dont (random) test him
and IF overeem was indeed using some….he would have to alter his usage anyway, so the result would be the same tested or not.
All testing is a fucking joke anyway. If it isn’t blood it’s not going to turn anything up.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2010 4:29 PM EDT reply actions
and from what I understand, even if it is a blood test, if the subject knows when the test is coming it isn’t hard to have everything out of your system
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so xxxxxxx stupid." – Phil Baroni
by keyboardwarrior on May 11, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not perfect...
but it’s more thorough and harder to beat. I could use and beat a piss test with no issue.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
and if I could...
I’m sure a high level athlete with a lot on the line could with ease.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Ontario Smith's Wizinator was auctioned off a while ago...
I don’t know what the policy is on second hand Wizinators though…
does this mean
that we’re admitting Josh Barnett is not a high-level athlete?
visit my website: http://bobthewriter.com
by bobthewriter on May 11, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm saying...
that he has no clue what he is doing when it comes to PEDs.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
what steroids are you on brent?
"All I guarantee is violence" - Wand
Tell that to Sean Sherk, Josh Barnett, Tim Sylvia, Royce Gracie....
The list goes on and on and on and on….
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Yeah, well…the fact that they’re idiots when it comes to what they’re doing doesn’t make testing effective.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
No Win for Overeem
premise: anyone with a brain can pass a drug test
conclusion: high-level athletes with money will never fail a drug test
exhibit a: Sean Sherk, Josh Barnett, Tim Sylvia, Stephen Bonnar and Royce Gracie failed drug test
exhibit b: They are top level athletes (at one point) with good money
Conclusion A: They’re idiots, stupider than most
Conclusion B: Drug tests are effective (if not fool-proof)
If drug tests are so easy to beat, then no athletes should ever fail, let alone top level athletes with money. The fact of the matter is that testing works, even if it’s not 100% fool proof. However, that also goes with cheaters. No cheating methods are 100% fool proof. If they cheat, they will get caught (eventually).
-Look at the no-win dilemma Snowden put Overeem in. In one fell swoop, he accuses all top athletes of cheating, then gives them no way out to prove their innocence. Accusation: Everyone cheats, even if they pass the drug test, that just means they cheated very well. There is no way to prove a negative. If Overeem passes the drug test, it just means he’s using designer steroids. If he fails, we all knew he cheated (and he’s an idiot). No-win.
All the people who claim that drug tests are so easy to pass, let’s use a scientific method to prove it rather than “it’s so easy a cave man can do it.” Take steroids for a day, and try and pass a drug test within 30 days. Make this an MMA investigative reporting worthy of real journalism backed by actual data and scientific methods rather than lame unprovable yellow journalism accusations.
by cyph on May 11, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I didn’t practice any “yellow” journalism here. If you want information about how drug tests work, you can go here. http://www.wada-ama.org/
I don’t think I have to take steroids to discuss how easily a smart athlete can beat commission testing. If I was discussing Machida’s broken orbital bone, surely I wouldn’t need to break my own face to be capable of describing how long it might keep him out of the Octagon.
I haven’t put Overeem in any kind of position, no-win or otherwise. There is speculation about what kind of testing is in place. I tried to answer those questions.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 11, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Re-read your last paragraph.
I’m sure there are athletes that do cheat and pass the drug test.. However, there are no proof that high level athletes use it even if you believe that is a possibility. This article started as factual reporting but it ended up with speculation. You are casting doubt on all MMA athletes and especially Overeem (which this article is about). Without fact, this is not responsible journalist. Yes, this is fan post, but as you are a real journalist, your name and reputation stands behind this article.
No proof?
Are you seriously saying that it is inappropriate to suggest athletes may be using PEDs?
I specifically made sure I pointed out that Overeem has never been accused of steroid use anywhere but the internet. I don’t think this article is accusatory towards Overeem. The criticism is leveled at the athletic commission’s testing policies.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 11, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Dont worry man, Cyphs argument holds no water...
or urine for that matter…
Most of the UFC fighters that got caught were caught at the TURN of MMA when it was becoming more serious…Athletic commissions were slightly ahead of the athletes at the time all of those named fighters were getting caught. The ’ ******** Camp’ was the # 1 camp in the UFC when their HW got busted…ALL of their fighters were obviously using heavily…Only one or two of their knuckleheads got caught…others left their unblemmished legacies in the record books…and most of the team just faded away in unison with their physiques…
A lot of the ‘Internet Accusations’ can prove helpful in real life with this specific situation…REAL people are highlighting these internet debates because real people are disgusted with guys like Overeem and Barnett…
Yeah, Overeem was never busted…but, US, as fans lost out on Overeem just as much as we have with Barnett…
We put Overeem in the same category as Barnett when it comes to playing Dodgeball with Piss Tests and athletic commissions even though Uber has never pissed HOT. And NOW, Coker is adding fuel to the fire by having this event in Missouri were drug testing is basically nonexistent??
Let Ubereem fight in Australia with Barnett for all we care…We have basically written him off because he has made himself irrelevant and blackballed himself just as Barnett has.
by Roll NControl on May 12, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
My only point is this: the fact that some people HAVE failed the current drug tests does not make the tests effective.
I’m not saying Overeem or anyone else is or is not using. I’m simply saying that passing a piss test as currently administered does nothing to prove to me that they are not.
Everyone who is in the know and willing to speak has basically said that all the designer steroids, HGH, EPO and most other PED’s are not going to be picked up with the basic urine test provided by athletic commissions. And that you can avoid a positive with the basic stuff if you’re given at least 48 hours notice of when the test will actually occur. This isn’t shit I’m pulling out of nowhere, this is stuff coming from experts.
Honestly, I would LOVE to do the “scientific method” that you suggested. I’m not sure if I actually CAN, but it’s something that I will absolutely look into.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Please name the “experts” and their credentials, and the studies to back up their claims. Anyone can spew “facts” but unless there are studies with real data, it’s all hearsay.
If there are conclusive data for what you claim, then I would consider myself enlightened.
The USADA’s Travis Tygart talks about it a little here By the way, Tygart is the guy that the NSAC was turning to for information on how to test for HGH and EPO. Snowden gave a good link above also.
You don’t need studies to tell you that the drug tests which do not test for HGH, designer steroids, EPO and other things…do not detect them. Tests aren’t looking for them, they don’t catch them. That isn’t hearsay, it’s common sense. Right now it’s the same as giving people a 4th grade reading and math test to see if they have a 12th grade education. You’re not testing the subjects they learned from 5-12, so of course you don’t know if they have that knowledge. Just like you’re not testing for things like HGH or EPO so you don’t know if an athlete is on them.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
From that tygart interview
Q: And that includes both blood and urine testing?
A: “Blood and urine but it’s got to be an effective urine program. Again, just a couple tests here and there that everyone knows about, or 72-hour notice that you’re going to be tested, or 48-hour notice — it has to be true, no-notice testing. And it has to be a broad menu of tests. And they don’t test for EPO. What was reported on Mosley is that he was using EPO. And he could use it without regard for being caught because they weren’t testing it — and there is a urine-based test for most EPO. So you’ve got to start with an effective urine program and an effective blood program. And the reason, to answer your specific question, that you need to do blood is because there are certain, and several, potent performance-enhancers that are not detected in the urine. Of those, human growth hormone being one; HBOC, which is synthetic hemoglobin; certain forms of EPO, like Micera; and then, the transfusions.”
Q: If you blood test, is urine testing necessary at all?
A: “Yes, because there are certain things that you’re not going to find in the blood, that you can only find in urine, like most forms of EPO, steroids, designer steroids, insulin. You have to have a combination of the two. Look, I’d love to have one strand of hair. From a cost and logistical standpoint, the simpler whatever we collect, the better. Not that collecting blood and urine are difficult, but you have to have the proper procedures in place, and account for the shipping, and the state that you need the samples, once collected, to remain in a preserved state where they can be accurately analyzed. You can build those programs. It doesn’t take much. We obviously would prefer the simplest mechanism possible. But just pulling a strand of hair is not effective to protect a clean athlete’s rights because there is so much that can’t be detected in hair, or saliva, or other things.”
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
This
is actually why I don’t have a big problem with ONLY urine testing, if they did them properly. If they tested for everything that can, which they don’t, and made them no notice, again they don’t, it actually WOULD be effective.
You don’t need the blood testing (as much) if you do urine right.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on May 12, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not arguing that HGH and EPO can’t be detected with urine tests. I am not stupid enough to believe that all athletes are not using; as long as the sun rises, athletes will find ways to cheat.
What I am arguing is that just because the possibility is there, you cannot cast doubt on all athletes. That is irresponsible. There are murderers and rapists out there in this world right now; However, that does not mean the guy next to you is a murderer or a rapist. If we can use common sense such as this for your fellow man, why are we throwing the open net to all MMA athletes out there?
Overeem seems unconcerned about the testing, and for good reason. Even if he is using steroids or human growth hormone (and he has never tested positive for a banned substance) so are plenty of other top athletes in the sport. The fact remains, at Overeem’s pay level, a smart fighter can afford the types of drugs and the type of medical care that would make a drug test failure unlikely. We likely will never know if Overeem used steroids to prepare for his fight with Brett Rogers. But we won’t know about any of the other fighters on the card either.
What can we conclude from this? Overeem may use HGH or steroids, but there’s no way to detect it. (If he passes, that doesn’t mean he’s clean) Overeem is a highly paid fighter and can afford these types of drugs and/or medical care that will help in passing a drug test. This goes for other fighters on the card as well.
It doesn’t matter if Overeem is clean or not. He’s now tainted…
Another way to look at it
Shogun looked real good against Machida. No one has knocked out Machida before. He must be on some designer steroids, HGH, or a combination of both.
GSP looks way too ripped to be natural. He must be on some designer steroids, HGH, or a combination of both.
Get your facts straight, GSP is on designer petrolium products.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Excuse me, but there seems to be some BROCK in my LESNAR.
by Ubernoober on May 11, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, I am always skeptical about
Prize fighters from other countries…
The Russians ruined it in Rocky with Ivan Drago!!!
I’ll never trust a Russian athlete, or Dutch athlete, or Canadian athlete for that matter…
Cue the Drago hooked up to the machines Gif.
by Roll NControl on May 12, 2010 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
That isn't my fault so I refuse to be sorry for that...
I think that it does not prove that ANYONE be it GSP, Lesnar, Overeem, Dan Hardy, Roy Nelson…whoever…is clean of anything when they take the current tests.
I want better testing, and under the current testing I refuse to believe as absolute fact that ANYONE is clean. If there are feelings that someone may be using, seeing them pass a piss test should not change your mind.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Smoke=Fire
The record of other sports, particularly Baseball, Cycling and Track show us that where there is smoke there is fire. Certainly at a sport level and often at an individual athlete level (Marion Jones, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens). Certainly the evidence has shown that its not just the cut guys that are on PEDs so its unfair to single out particular athletes, but we’ve certainly seen that asking questions has led to results.
When you listen to some interviews particularly baseball journalists (sorry but I don’t have a quote) you definitely here many of them regret not publishing articles on PED allegations because they enable PED use.
Ultimately, athletes need to be part of the solution, I know its not “fair”, but this isn’t a court of law. Athletes are part of the sport and if they want the sport to be perceived as clean then they need to be out there pushing the athletic commissions to push for increased testing, if not then a fear they are protecting a culture of doping like we’ve had in countless other sports where the benefits of doping were obvious.
Brent
Why did i get that stupid warning? That comment was in no way racist, and if you saw it that way then that’s your fault. I see black people equally as anyone else, and calling a black person an ape and calling a white person an ape has no difference to me.
Ha, you completely nailed it. Awesome post, and I say this even though if I were a betting man I’d probably put money on Snowden’s being right.
by The Darkness on May 12, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Im sure sean sherk, baroni, barnett (3 times), leben, tim sylvia, Royce Gracie, etc… would disagree with you.
The testing isnt perfect but saying it doesnt matter is as stupid as saying speed limits dont matter. Yeah people go 65mph on a 55 limit but go to a third world country where there arent any limits and people are doing 90 on a windy road that a daredevil wouldnt go 35 on.
Speed limits have been proven not to matter.
Death rates in areas with speed limits and rates in areas without are exactly the same. Because people drive as comfortable as they think is safe. People that want to drive 90 will drive 90 regardless of what some white sign tells them.
Those people failed piss tests, but that doesn’t make the test effective.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The roads in India are like something from The Road Warrior.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Excuse me, but there seems to be some BROCK in my LESNAR.
Neat...
but still…there have been enough tests in industrialized nations to prove that people don’t immediately turn into idiots when speed limits are raised, lowered or eliminated.
Q. Wouldn’t everyone drive faster if the speed limit was raised?
A. No, the majority of drivers will not go faster than what they feel is comfortable and safe regardless of the speed limit. For example, an 18-month study following an increase in the speed limit along the New York Thruway from 55 to 65 mph, determined that the average speed of traffic, 68 mph, remained the same. Even a national study conducted by Federal Highway Administration also concluded that raising or lowering the speed limit had practically no effect on actual travel speeds.
Q. Don’t higher speed limits cause more accidents and traffic fatalities?
A. No, if a speed limit is raised to actually reflect real travel speeds, the new higher limit will make the roads safer. When the majority of traffic is traveling at the same speed, traffic flow improves, and there are fewer accidents. Speed alone is rarely the cause of accidents. Differences in speed are the main problem. Reasonable speed limits help traffic to flow at a safer, more uniform pace.
# Lowering speed limits by 5, 10, 15, or 20 mi/h (8, 16, 24, or 26 km/h) at the study sites had a minor effect on vehicle speeds. Posting lower speed limits does not decrease motorist’s speeds.
# Raising speed limits by 5, 10, or 15 mi/h (8, 16, or 25 km/h) at the rural and urban sites had a minor effect on vehicle speeds. In other words, an increase in the posted speed limit did not create a corresponding increase in vehicle speeds.
# The average change in any of the percentile speeds at the experimental sites was less than 1.5 mi/h (2.4 m/h), regardless of whether the speed limit was raised or lowered.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 11, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
your talking about areas THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN CONDITIONED with speed limits. This data is meaningless. Again, go travel to a third world country and you’re in a real life derby.
speed limits matter… stop signs matter even if guys figure out ways to get around it and even though people generally ride 10 to 15% faster than the limits allow.
when there arent any limits or people havent been conditioned with limits it’s utter chaos.
For argument sake lets say everyone is using and there’s a 10 to 15% edge… remember no matter how you cheat your levels (tsh, testosterone, etc) can only be at a certain limit come fight time. So no matter how useless you think these tests are at a minimum it sets a limit on what you can come into and leave the cage with come fight time. Anyone who’s cheating, the main benefit is recovery during training. This is a far cry with someone walking into the cage pumped with pain killers and/or pcp.
Now you want blood testing… you think people aren’t gonna figure out how to beat that? They already have – but its very expensive. All you’re doing is making this available only to the top 5% who can afford it.
If everyone is cheating to get a slight edge which is the assumption – then id rather have the slight edge available to as many people as possible and not limit it to the fortunate few.
I also dont agree with no testing at all – because then there’s no limits (much like the chaos on the roads in third world countries)
I want it controlled and I want it limited and I want it practical. The current system is the best foundation and continues to improve (which it should). USADA is bull shit. All their doing is selling you a pipe dream (of a drug free environment) to make a buck. All they can deliver is a mostly drug free environment where everyone with their own chemist has a definitive advantage.
Because this is a contact sport drug testing is a necessity for the safety of the fighters during combat. A guy on pcp can punch through a car window without feeling it – Someone on pain killers can take a severely unhealthy amount of damage. The current system is sufficient for what matters most.
Baseball, football and basketball players wont even adhere to this system (which you call useless). So whatever it is, take comfort in knowing that your athletes (who are tested) are cleaner than the more mainstream guys.
by mmalogic on May 11, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
“Anyone who’s cheating, the main benefit is recovery during training”
Tell that to a guy who I train with who weighs 170 and squats 5 plates.
BOOSH
I give up...
it’s clear from the comments here that you, and the majority of other participants in the comments, are perfectly happy with the current system.
I think it’s sad to not want the best things possible for the sport. But that’s just me.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 12, 2010 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
oh...
and since people are “already conditioned” with some degree of testing, it would make my data on industrialized nations more relevant than your third world stuff.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 12, 2010 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I never have felt like I got a clear answer on what it is you do want.
What’s your proposal?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
I’d like to see a combination of blood and urine testing. No test is going to catch 100% of user, I just care about using the methods that are going to do best.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 12, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Then we're in complete agreement.
Except I’d also like hair samples and a small snippet of their liver to be collected bi-monthly. What the hell.
Also, I’d like to see harsher penalties for getting caught – minimum 1 year suspension, 100% forfeiture of your purse, and anyone caught talking to Marius gets a lifetime ban.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
This
is why I want no testing at all. I think it’s the most fair way to handle the athletes, sadly.
ALL OF YOU LISTEN TO MEE, DON'T DISTURB HERE, I WILL CALL POLICE CATCH YOU, DON'T COME TO MY BANGOLOW HOUSE, UNDERSTAND, O.K. I HATE ALL OF YOU.
by Chris Barton on May 12, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like you’re cool with the way PRIDE used to drug test; urine samples to make sure no one was using opiates, no interest in doping.
by VirtualBalboa on May 13, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
People that want to drive 90 will drive 90 regardless of what some white sign tells them.
This isn’t true. Were it not for speed limits I would drive a great deal faster than I do currently.
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by Richard Wade on May 11, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I just dont believe that a corvette
and a woman driven minivan should be subjected to the same speed limit…
by Roll NControl on May 12, 2010 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd drive faster than I do...
…but my car starts to top out at 140.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
I don't like how Overeem is trying to divert all negativity towards him about the steroid issue onto Brock.
We’ve what Brock has looked like his entire career, spanning from collegiate wrestling to Professional wrestling to Mixed Martial Arts and his body size has been pretty consistant over the years. Can’t really say the same for Overeem. You see pictures all the time, but while rewatching his fight against Chuck on the Best of Pride the other nite, it reminded me just how skinny or ordinarily average he was at 205. I’ve watched him throughout his career and his body size has dramatically ballooned in size. I’m not accusing anyone of using as neither Brock nor Overeem have failed a test. One thing I’m sure of is that while Overeem may have only been tested by Strikeforce twice like the article say, Brock has been tested by both the UFC AND whichever AC is sanctioning his fights. I don’t think it’s fair for him to divert the question being asked about him onto Brock, as Brock has been asked the same question his whole career. And rightfully so as he did come from a profession that is notorious for steriod use. Thing is, Overeem is much much bigger than he was when he first fought and won the belt for Strikeforce. I also think that until all fighters are tested both before and after their fights, this question should be asked about every fighter, fair or unfair, no fighter should have an upperhand by cheating, and it’s not like its obvious who’s using or who’s fighting clean. Perfect example is Baby Fedor. That guy looked nothing like these stereotypical cheater as he looked like he carried around 20 pounds of baby fat, yet he failed a test. Cheating in sports is unexceptable period, but in combat sports, where it’s one on one, it’s not like there’s too many ways to gain the upper hand unless you train harder than your opponent, which is the only way it should be. But cheating in combat sports, its not always as obvious as wrapping your hands with something that’s going to give you an edge, like Margaritto did in boxing. If the only way to find out who’s cheating and who’s playing fair is to Blood test all fighters, then so be it. There’s no room for it in MMA or anyother sport for that matter.
For the love of God, please use paragraphs.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Excuse me, but there seems to be some BROCK in my LESNAR.
by Ubernoober on May 11, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Is this any better?
I don’t like how Overeem is trying to divert all negativity towards him about the steroid issue onto Brock.We’ve seen what Brock has looked like his entire career, spanning from collegiate wrestling to Professional wrestling to Mixed Martial Arts and his body size has been pretty consistant over the years.
Can’t really say the same for Overeem. You see pictures all the time, but while rewatching his fight against Chuck on the Best of Pride the other nite, it reminded me just how skinny or ordinarily average he was at 205. I’ve watched him throughout his career and his body size has dramatically ballooned in size.
I’m not accusing anyone of using as neither Brock nor Overeem have failed a test. One thing I’m sure of is that while Overeem may have only been tested by Strikeforce twice like the article say, Brock has been tested by both the UFC AND whichever AC is sanctioning his fights. I don’t think it’s fair for him to divert the question being asked about him onto Brock, as Brock has been asked the same question his whole career. And rightfully so as he did come from a profession that is notorious for steriod use.
Thing is, Overeem is much much bigger than he was when he first fought and won the belt for Strikeforce. I also think that until all fighters are tested both before and after their fights, this question should be asked about every fighter, fair or unfair, no fighter should have an upperhand by cheating, and it’s not like its obvious who’s using or who’s fighting clean. Perfect example is Baby Fedor. That guy looked nothing like these stereotypical cheater as he looked like he carried around 20 pounds of baby fat, yet he failed a test.
Cheating in sports is unexceptable period, but in combat sports, where it’s one on one, it’s not like there’s too many ways to gain the upper hand unless you train harder than your opponent, which is the only way it should be. But cheating in combat sports, its not always as obvious as wrapping your hands with something that’s going to give you an edge, like Margaritto did in boxing. If the only way to find out who’s cheating and who’s playing fair is to Blood test all fighters, then so be it. There’s no room for it in MMA or anyother sport for that matter.
FWIW
Brett Rogers said on Sherdog radio yesterday that he was informed that both he and Overeem would be tested for steroids for this event.
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Trust a lil bit more on him
Do you know that there exist Natural bodybuilding contests?? Some of those BBs could make Alistair look in horrible shape next to them.
Just give him a chance. Overeem trains with elite strongman competitors in holland, and he does everything correctly as tu bulk like a freak, that includes diet, multiple exercises and two naps over the day, that’s how a natural bodybuilder trains.
No, he can do all that because its his job, not everybody has all day long to dedicate it to their bodies.
Robert Downey Jr put on over 20lbs of muscle in a few weeks working out 90 min at leasst 3 times a week, and throwing in there some yoga and kung fu training. it doesn’t talk all day, or even everyday. people really need to stop with the “look at him” defense. everyone’s body is different, and there are no hard and fast rules regarding muscle gains. stop using pictures taken from all different perspectives as proof of your steroid claims. I agree with Brent that what we need is better and more accurate testing. who wouldn’t want a better way to solve these stupid arguments?
You realize actors aren’t tested for steroids, right?
One of Hollywood’s dirty little secrets is that actors who make extreme body composition changes like that usually do so with the pharmaceutical help.
What About Randy?!?
Just wanted to muddy the waters a bit, but what about Randy Couture’s HRT program? This is simply the use of HGH and synthetic testosterone (ie “steroids”) to increase his natural levels up to those more like a 22 year-old, but its still PED no matter how its spun…
Enjoy
by BigDNotDallas on May 12, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
How his Overeem trying to escape Urinalysis? He scheduled the bout in Missouri? He has anything to do with the drug testing procedures that re in place there?
No one has suggested he is “trying to escape Urinalysis” only that he has escaped it.
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Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on May 11, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Another top notch post.
always look foward to your articles
"Your not gonna jab and shoulder roll your way away from Brock Lesnar; He is gonna fuck you." - Joe 'High as Fuck' Rogan
Thanks. The immediate feedback and super smart audience here are fairly addictive.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 11, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if he is using steroids or human growth hormone (and he has never tested positive for a banned substance) so are plenty of other top athletes in the sport
How do YOU know? And which ones? This is a stupid assertion to make since there is nothing to back it up.
by dumbwhiteguy on May 11, 2010 5:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I have been told by more than one fighter and by a major trainer that they, their teammates, or their fighters use HGH. I don’t know a single person connected to MMA that would deny that there are major issues with PEDs.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 11, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Anecdotal
We all know that there are cheaters… that’s a given. Is that reason enough to accuse all top level athletes of cheating? Is there a study out there that conclusive proves that HGH is effective in improving athletic ability other than anecdotal evidence other than the placebo effect?
I never accused all top level athletes of cheating. I never would.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 11, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
This article sets a wrong tone.
The title implies he does NEED to escape a test. Which is like saying: random person that should take an alcohol test because he looks a little drunk escapes the test this time?
Makes no sense.
Completely agree.
The real issue is the lack of transparency in Missouri’s drug testing and the seemingly haphazard process used in selecting who to test and at what events. There was no need to mention Overeem at all.
The endless speculation, like it or not, kind of becomes the story. I thought it might be nice if someone just called and asked the Commission what they intended to do, rather than just speculate.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 11, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
imagine if rogers pisses dirty and overeem comes back clean
thatd really mindfuck everyone
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
Why is it so hard to believe that a guy can add 40lbs of muscle?
signed,
Barry Bonds
by Brian Burdios on May 11, 2010 5:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Stop harassing Overeem about this steroid nonsene.. it’s fully possible to gain the amount of muscle he did in the time period he did it, legal and healthy. He’s never had a positive drug test, and until he does, people should quit bitching already.
About the article, it’s not like Overeem decided which state to hold the event in, and what rules they apply there. I would love to see proper testing done to shut people up, but then again many of you have already expressed that even that won’t stop you! This whole thing is getting really tiresome, especially journalists should stop accusing and insinuating stuff with no evidence to back it up. Really unprofessional.
I’ll continue to be a fan meanwhile. Übereem by 1st round KO! Rogers is going down, hard.
This article is at the same time saying it’s a shame that Overeem isn’t going to be tested (possibly?) and then stating that the testing is all a waste because he’ll just beat it anyways. They’re sort of contradicting points.
Basically, there are people that have made up their minds that Overeem is juicing and nothing anyone says or does, and no matter how many tests he passes, they won’t be convinced. The guy gained weight so he must be on steroids. That’s all the evidence most of the internet needs.
If the guy fails a test, fine, I’ll start suspecting him. But otherwise I’ll just enjoy watching one of the best HW strikers in MMA fight.
I just need to see this guy lay the hammer to Rogers, it’ll happen. 1st round KTFO!!
by Brian Burdios on May 11, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
FUCK YES
I can’t wait to try my hand at Überkneeing fighters’ heads off @ E3.
by Polyhedron on May 11, 2010 6:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That was Arlovski?? Bleh…
"We don't need no water, let the Badr Hari burn!" - Michael Schiavello
by Jackie Maden on May 12, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
That game looks like trash compared to THQs
by AHutch on May 11, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I want to post something witty, pithy, and insightful about this...
…and about all the steroid-disbelievers who told me time and again that Overeem wasn’t using and that he’d defend his belt and that he’d sail through testing and everything would be proven to be above board…
…but I can’t stop laughing!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Why, do you pithy the fool?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Megareem can’t do piss tests, his ultra-powerful stream keeps punching through the plastic cup.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Excuse me, but there seems to be some BROCK in my LESNAR.
I had a thought about…
How does Machida do piss tests if he is always drinking up all the samples?
"I'm going to strip them of their health. I bring the pain, a lot of pain."" - Tyson
by JeremyShane on May 11, 2010 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
The only urine fit to drink is the first morning urine, the testers can have the rest of the swill.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Excuse me, but there seems to be some BROCK in my LESNAR.
by Ubernoober on May 11, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
LEAVE UBEREEM ALONE!!!!
"Your not gonna jab and shoulder roll your way away from Brock Lesnar; He is gonna fuck you." - Joe 'High as Fuck' Rogan
by KingAtRock on May 11, 2010 7:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Why does everyone that thinks he took steroids think that he has to be still taking them? I’m not an expert but hypothetically he could just as easily taken them to get up to the size he is and maintain that size naturally. I know when cycling off you can lose some of that mass but not all of it. Someone like Overeem who can work out 40hrs a week can make that up and some.
Why yall gotta be hatin'? =P
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua: UFC LHW CHAMP! Justice is served, 2-0 against Machida!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
u gotta test the champ. period. belt on the line….****** should be tested.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on May 12, 2010 11:32 AM EDT reply actions
When I was in the Marine Corps, we had sever guys in our unit that were Juiceing.
Even more were on HgH. They routinely passed the piss tests.
During the piss tests a staff sgt. would stand next to you and watch the urine stream leave your dick and go in the cup. Then the sample was flown to Florida and a government lab would test it. I over 4 years NONE of them failed.
There are ways……..
Pain don't hurt...
This is the first mention of Antonio "Bigfoot" Silva after 135 comments.
You know, the guy in the co-main event who has an actual, well publicized history with PEDs; not just one invented by Sherdog forums.
by yukkurishiteittene on May 13, 2010 10:58 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
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