MMA Live Report Card
by Michael Rome on May 11, 2010 1:32 PM EDT
in MMA News
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MMA Live made its ESPN 2 debut on Saturday night, and for the most part I thought the shows were very good. The association of MMA with ESPN graphics is very beneficial to the sport. ESPN simply lends a certain legitimacy to MMA.
I found the post-show better than the pre-show. We typically only hear from fans and writers immediately after fights, and it was nice to hear Kenny Florian and Rashad Evans add their perspective on the action in the Octagon.
Kenny Florian has really turned into an excellent analyst for ESPN. When he started he was a talented public speaker with a rare ability (among fighters) to articulate his points effectively, but he was a little rough around the edges. He’s improved ten-fold since the beginning of his stint, and now comfortably makes concise and valuable points without worrying about going too far by insulting his fellow fighters.
Jon Anik has always been very good, but as a viewer it is easy to tell that he’s become more comfortable in his job over time. Every episode he exudes a little more personality on-air, but still hits the right balance as the lead anchor. The rapport between Anik and Florian may not be Olbermann-Patrick, but it’s pretty good.
This brings us to Franklin Mcneil. Like everyone who writes about him, I will preface this by saying I’m sure he’s a nice guy, and I have nothing against him. That being said, he needs to be replaced as soon as possible. He openly roots for his favorites, has worse sources than MMA Bay, and simply does not know the sport well enough to be an anchor on the most important show in the sport. It’s worth repeating that he complimented Junior Dos Santos’s ground game based on his submission win over Mirko CroCop, even though the submission was due to strikes.
Everyone makes mistakes, but certain mistakes, made on a regular basis, betray a fundamental lack of understanding about the sport. The argument that he adds quality reporting to the show simply doesn’t fly; his report on Shogun’s knee was clearly way off-base, and frankly without being 100% sure of it he should not have come forward with that kind of information the night of a major fight. I’ll be frank: I let out a huge sigh of relief when the pre-show came on and Rashad was sitting in the third seat rather than Franklin Mcneil.
The same can be said about Gareth Davies, who is now on the show for reasons simply beyond comprehension. I appreciate his efforts to support the sport in the UK, but on the totem pole of intelligent MMA analysts, well, he isn’t even on the list at all. I never give people grief over fight picks; god knows I’m not that good at picking fights. That being said, was anyone surprised when Davies picked Hardy over GSP, or Daley over Koscheck? Gareth Davies will probably pick Michael Bisping over Anderson Silva if they ever fight.
Who is the ideal third man? There are a lot of choices. The best pick would be Randy Couture, who steals the show whenever he is on MMA Live. He’s always been very good at play by play, and he’s a natural for a gig like this. His presence would lend authority to the show.
If not Randy, there are plenty of other analysts out there that could add something to the show. Ariel Helwani is a very good speaker with a deep knowledge of the sport. Luke Thomas of this website would be a great pick given his speaking ability and his knowledge of the sport. Dave Meltzer would be a great pick as well if they’re really looking for someone with an ability to add hard news to the broadcast.
Another great pick would be Joe Rogan. Joe is a fantastic MMA analyst outside of his role as a play-by-play guy. His podcasts deal with all kinds of crazy issues, but when Joe speaks about MMA as a fan and analyst, he is one of the most insightful guys in the entire sport. His appearances on Josh Gross's show are fantastic, and he really was the only guy who really called Machida-Shogun 2 correctly. Obviously Rogan cannot do pre-show specials due to his commentating job, but he would be a great regular host and post-show host.
Overall, the show has improved significantly since its inception, and I’m excited to see it on television. I think the post-show in particular could have a very strong future, especially if they can get the UFC to plug it on-air.
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Luke Thomas to replace Franklin McNeil?
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
Why not?
He’d do a better job, that’s for sure.
by Anton Tabuena on May 11, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
my votes for helwani or randy
clearly the two best picks
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
I actually think Helwani would do a great job. Always a solid interviewer asking relevant, good questions.
by robotplague on May 11, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree,
but if he’s giving live pre and post fight analysis, who’s going to do the interviews? We wouldn’t get those awesome nuggets like the one with Machida’s dad peeing on the corner.
by Anton Tabuena on May 11, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
both excellent choices,
I think they probably want an “analyst” and not a “fighter” for that broadcasting slot though.
by Anton Tabuena on May 11, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Fo sho!
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua: UFC LHW CHAMP! Justice is served, 2-0 against Machida!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 11, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’ve ever seen the youtube vids or the Ustream of his radio show, you’d know he’s a natural for it. He’s very knowledgable about the sport, and passionate, and more importantly, he’s not prone to stupid mistakes like saying Dos Santos has a great ground game based off a submission due to strikes.
he’s also a color commentator for the UWC, and provides analysis for their countdown show-ish videos. Which is pretty much what he will need to do on pre-fight shows…
I’d be happy if they picked a guy from one of the top MMA websites, like Breen, Gross, Hunt, Luke, MDS, Meltzer, etcetc but making the jump from writing/radio show, to ESPN live TV coverage isn’t as easy as some people think.
(I think a few of those I mentioned could do a good job though, some of them also have experience with video/TV promos)
by Anton Tabuena on May 11, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I may be alone in thinking this but I think MMA Live does lose some cred by having current active fighters being used as analysts. Where is the objectivity?
No other major sport would allow for this (NFL, MLB, NBA etc.), too many conflicts of interest for a active fighter to truly excel in that role. That being said Florian has improved leaps and bounds. Along with Couture, Florian is the best at what he does given the situation
Ideal team would be
Host: Jon Ainek
Analyst One- Retired fighter only name off the top of my head is Pat Miletich but Randy Couture would be idle whenever he hangs up the gloves.
Analyst Two- A non UFC affiliated journalist Luke Thomas, Josh Gross, Jordan Breen, Michael David Smith would all be good candidates for this spot
Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ultmma
http://www.ULTMMA.com
I fully agree about having active fighters commentate about fights in their own organisation and division, that’s not a good thing IMO. It’s more passable when it’s for another org/division, like Frank Mir on WEC for example.
I haven’t actually watched MMA Live yet (don’t live in US), but I’ll probably give it a try. I always download and watch Inside MMA on saturdays though, which I very much enjoy.
by Horselover Fat on May 11, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Screw that. Put in Kid Nate.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
Kid Nate would sink the ship within the week.
TV needs more beard, vote Luke Thomas.
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on May 11, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
My vote is for Ben Fowlkes.
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
Good choice.
"- His nickname is "fly", so I look forward to see him fly out of the ring after I punch him.
- He says that I'm known as a "fly"...but flies like shit, so I'm gonna be all over you."
by dancingChicken on May 12, 2010 5:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Anybody would be better. Maybe even someone like Bas Rutten…. if he ever decided to leave Inside MMA.
bas would bring a very large personality that espn would embrace
think stephan a smith, stuart scott, chris berman, bas would really wind up stealing the show
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
Bas would be MONEY! Doubt it happens. I’m very sad that they took him off fight commentary. =/
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua: UFC LHW CHAMP! Justice is served, 2-0 against Machida!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 11, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That would require Bas watch more than a couple hours of MMA each month.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on May 11, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Wait, you mean the british Gareth Davies
chose the british fighters over their opponents? He may just be playing the nationalism card, but I agree, he’s definitely the weakest choice.
Kind of like suggesting your Editor-in-Chief as a potential replacement for Franklin McNeil…
Luke is extremely knowledgeable and would be a very good choice, but giving Davies grief for picking the Brits is a bit much… you know he’s going to do it, so how is it a surprise when he does? It’d be like me – a Canadian – not picking Canada to win in hockey. Pick the other guy and they throw you out of the country…
by E. Spencer Kyte on May 11, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Pick the other guy and they throw you out of the country
But at least you’d be thrown out for retaining your common sense.
by woomikee on May 11, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I picked him due to the huge amount of money I make for writing here.
by Michael Rome on May 11, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
lol
"Your not gonna jab and shoulder roll your way away from Brock Lesnar; He is gonna fuck you." - Joe 'High as Fuck' Rogan
I hear being a writer at BE pays almost as well as the infamous ‘Zuffa paid poster’ gig.
I’m still trying to figure out how to get on that money train.
Yeah, I’ve been wondering how you become a paid Zuffa shill. Since a lot of people shill for free, I wanna get paid for it.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
There are a lot of paid Zuffa shills. We call some of them “journalists.”
by Jonathan Snowden on May 11, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
hahahaha
Touché sir.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
True .. but I was talking more about these supposed Zuffa astroturfers that are all over ever forum and blog on the internet. I want my piece of the pie damnit!
You’re too reasonable. Have a look at 45 Huddle at Fight Opinion and take our cues from him. :)
by Jonathan Snowden on May 11, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I admittedly haven’t seen Davies explanation for his Hardy or Daley picks, but you really want to give him a free pass just because he’s British? Should I just go ahead and pick Rampage or Rashad when they fight Shogun because I’m American?
And you shouldn’t have picked Canada to win the gold at the Olympics because you’re Canadian. You should have picked them, you know, because they were the best team in the pool.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I’m not saying the stick with your countrymen thing is universal, just he’s the British MMA guy, so you have to expect he’s going to back his boys when they’re competing on the major stage.
Is it the best, most objective stance? Of course not – anyone in their right mind knew both Hardy and Daley were getting put on their backs by tremendous wrestlers, but he’s not paid to tell the British fans that their stars don’t stand a chance.
Dana White will forever and always pick a UFC fighter over anyone else in the world, even if they are going to get beat. Same goes for Davies and Brits in major fights.
I don’t want to give him a free pass at anything – I think he isn’t made for TV and should be replaced, just like you, but not based on picking the British guys. He should be replaced because it takes a special blend of talents that not everyone has to fill that role successfully, and the people Rome listed all have those skills. Davies does not.
by E. Spencer Kyte on May 11, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm Filipino, and I will always always side with Vera, Munoz, Buchholz, Nover, etc...
but I can be honest and say that while I am rooting for that guy, if I feel that he is in over his head matchup wise, I’m not delusional enough to not see it, or not to admit it when asked about my opinion…
case 1: Mark Munoz vs Okami. I would love it if Munoz GnP’ed him to oblivion, but I know that chances are he would get neutralized by Okami’s game.
by Anton Tabuena on May 11, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
100% agree
with your thoughts Rome. Davies and McNeil are terrible, I would like to see Couture in there, or maybe even Eddie Bravo and Joe Rogan, Bravo can do the pre and post fight analysis.
I told you not to f*ck with me.
yup,
Eddie Bravo could be a good choice too. and unlike Rogan, he doesn’t have commitments with the UFC.
by Anton Tabuena on May 11, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
bravos a interesting choice
hed wind up being great or just way way way too high
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
Please no, Bravo is douchey and just from his looks ESPN wouldn’t have him.
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua: UFC LHW CHAMP! Justice is served, 2-0 against Machida!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 11, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Any thoughts on the possible spoilers that could occur
during the pre-fight show with the live crowd in the background.
Where does the talent of Royals prospects go? I imagine a man in Germany shouting "Why can I play baseball so well? WHY?" - Joe Posnanski
Trey Hillman + Dayton Moore = Dumb & Dumber
by RoyalsFanStuckInCardsLand on May 11, 2010 1:19 PM EDT reply actions
nahh :p
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on May 11, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don't care. As long as I don't hear Buffer I won't be spoiled.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
I couldn’t be more excited about MMA Live making it’s jump to live television. It’s nice to be able to watch an MMA program that takes itself as seriously as anything else in the sports world. It has a level of polish and professionalism that gives credibility to the sport and will benefit it in many intangible ways. I don’t watch any other sports so MMA Live and Inside MMA are really my only options for shows (on TV at least). I agree with what’s being said about Davies and McNeil though. Whenever those two talk I tend to tune it out. Davies feels like a British cheerleader (I don’t think he could give honest criticisms of his fellow countrymen) and McNeil always feels a little awkward. The rest of the guys are great though. Overall I’m pleased as punch, definitely plan on making this my before/after PPV ritual if they keep it going. I know I appreciate the hell out of what they do.
Marc Dellograte!
I probably butchered his name, but if I have man love for any trainer/corner man, its Dellograte. He’s exceptionally articulate and very knowledgeable. Though he may have a conflict of interest whenever his fighters are being discussed and who knows the dynamic between him and FLorian right now.
errr think You Mean Totem, not Totum :P Do agree with you on McNiel an Co. though. Need to get Quadros( Ya ya Iknow lots dont like him) , Bravo or even Bas(although with Inside MMA probably not happening) instead> Bout time it went to Live Tele though as the format an show areusually top notch.
How do you Know where Im at? If you dont Know where Ive been...Understand where Im coming from??
Randy rocks! I’ve always wanted him back in the commentary with Goldie and Rogan.
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua: UFC LHW CHAMP! Justice is served, 2-0 against Machida!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 11, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Randy's awesome
but for play-by-play I found his raspy voice doesn’t cut it. This is partly why Rogan and Goldberg are so good at what they do.
For the post/pre-fight stuff, he may be fine though, as you don’t have to compete with a crowd.
by RS26 on May 11, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Micheal Rome, thankyou! Here in the UK, i know Gareth A Davies as the guy who covers boxing and MMA. I thought he badly lacked knowledge in boxing… until i saw him pop up on MMA live, where he took ignorance of the sport he’s covering to new levels. McNeil is absolutely no better. Bonnar is good, Florian does a decent job, but the journalistic angle is so badly lacking it’s embarrassing. Why not you or Luke Thomas Mr Rome? Lets e mail ESPN guys!
How bout John Morgan from MMA Junkie? Always liked that guys work and he speaks really well. Dont know about his on camera look though.
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua: UFC LHW CHAMP! Justice is served, 2-0 against Machida!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
that's the hard thing though,
writing, radio, and TV, are completely different beasts… If he’s as good on TV as he is on the other two, then I’m all for it.
by Anton Tabuena on May 11, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I like that guy who writes for the Cincinnati Enquirer, he would be an excellent replacement.
Also, I have interviewed Franklin McNeil, and he is a very good guy, and he knows his MMA stuff to an extent, and personally I like having him on the show.
uuuh yeah I write for the Cincinnati Enquirer. Thanks?
He knows it “to an extent” which is nowhere near good enough. Most of the drunk people attending the last show live could provide better analysis.
by Michael Rome on May 11, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I totally agree with you about McNeil and Davies. It still confuses me as to why they keep those two around. Their favoritism is ridiculous to the point of laughable. Specifically Davies. Hardy over GSP? Daley over Kos? I’m sure if Tony Blair was on a card, he’d pick him. Anybody would be better than those two guys. I’m sure Bonnar would like a permenant gig somewhere, as would Couture once he retires. It was one thing when the show was just on the internet. Now that it’s moving on up, it’s time to do some spring cleaning.
Ariel Helwani is the best choice. He knows how to ask the sensitive questions without coming off as a jerk.
Randy Couture would probably do well. Joe Rogan’s a pothead and that’s probably a no-no for ESPN. Eddie Bravo would be great to consult on the ground game assuming it wouldn’t turn self-promotional.
you know
Eddie Bravo is just as much of a pothead as Joe
“The pre-fight war of words was always going to be good in this one, and there will be much anticipation for the explosive potential in this contest. It makes sense for Koscheck to take this to the ground, rather than stand with the dangerous knockout power of Daley. But will Koscheck be arrogant enough to do just that ? He may, for long enough, and for that reason, I pick Daley. If Koscheck chooses to rely heavily on his formidable wrestling skills, it will favour the American and give the lone Brit in the event a difficult night. PICK: Daley”
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/garethadavies/100007996/ufc-113-telegraph-tipping-chart/
by Michael Rome on May 11, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what I remembered.
I also remember reading the article posted by Rome, but on the pre show, I thought he picked Koscheck. Seems rather odd that he’d pick Daley in article, yet do a 180 and pick Kos moments before the PPV.
Jens Pulver
He’s always been a great commentator, and I was disappointed when Bonnar got the color job in WEC. It should have gone to Jens. I think he’d be great on MMA Live.
He's got an awful voice for broadcasting. I like him though.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
I'd rather not have another active fighter commentating
But I’d like special guests. Thomas would be great. I don’t know if his commitments w/ CBS sports would prevent it.
Helwani is a great choice but I would miss his post fight interviews. Bas’ committment to HDNet may not allow him to do it.
If Bonnar loses and stops fighting he would be a good choice.
Pulver can be a bit off sometimes but I enjoy his take from time to time.
Iole is another commentator that has the UFC’s ear.
The Voice.
As for fighters…Randy, Bonnar, Renzo, Mir…
Jordan Breen or bust
Claearly the mastermind of MMA knowledge would have to be there
by KOQ24 on May 11, 2010 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Maybe I’m crazy, but what would a Breen + Bas commentary team be like? I’ve got to think Breen would be the best play by play guy in the business
play-by-play
is a totally differnt beast. When it comes to analysis Breen is the man for so many reasons, but I don’t think he has the voice for play-by-play. Bas would totally drown him out with his “OHHH SHOT TO THE LIVER!” type antics. Also I don’t think Breen would want to do commentary anyway, seems like the kinda guy that would rather watch the fight and analys what happened.
"Your not gonna jab and shoulder roll your way away from Brock Lesnar; He is gonna fuck you." - Joe 'High as Fuck' Rogan
Breen would be awsome
I can listen to him talk about MMA for days.
"Your not gonna jab and shoulder roll your way away from Brock Lesnar; He is gonna fuck you." - Joe 'High as Fuck' Rogan
Just to put the BIG KIBOSH on Helwani
He’s an employee of Versus which is owned by NBC. ESPN is owned by ABC/Disney. Unfortunately, this probably will never happen due to these commitments.
As for who should be on? I’ll toss my support into Luke Thomas. He’s got a solid voice and a real knowledge. And when I say solid voice, I mean it doesn’t grate on your eardrums like Stephan Bonnar’s voice.
But I’ll be creative and say that the analyst should be Jens Pulver. He’s a great speaker and has the respect of fighters.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
Rome should be in charge of on air talent at ESPN
I couldn’t have said it better myself! Ariel or Randy would be great. Everyone email ESPN!!!!
Not Luke Thomas
That would be the worst choice. He wouldn’t do well on ESPN. Couture is good but is not an ESPN type personality. If it was a fighter it would have to be Frank Mir. Helwani is brilliant but not sure he would transition well. He would be a great guy to cut to and do interviews with people on site.
Ariel is the best but the dood already gets around a lot. He has been a guest analyst on Mike Straka’s show several times and did fine. Whatever happened to Mike Straka’s show…don’t even remember the name. Not really a Straka fan…he stumbles over his words a lot and generally doesn’t add much to the conversation imo.
Mir would be perfect
Fan of Tiger 'Makin It Rain' Woods
by B-A-N-A-N-A-S on May 11, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
That guy sucks. Fuck him.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on May 11, 2010 2:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 9 recs
he couldn’t even beat Almeida. he’s a can.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on May 11, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahahahaha
Was waiting for a Matt Brown joke.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Lytle's gonna make him his bitch.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
My favorite exchange was
When they announced the Brown/Almeida fight, Luke posted a comment
“Almeida, you’re dead!”
I legitimately laughed.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/1/7/1239182/ricardo-almeida-vs-matt-brown-set#28393960
There it is.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
"I am going to smash James Wilks."
This one was the best of those lines, IMO.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz
by CasualMMAFan on May 12, 2010 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions
pat’s one of the worst commentators i’ve ever heard.
HELWANI for pres. for anything damnit. He’s unbelievably knowledgable, asks all the right questions and has rapport with everyone. i’d watch helwani interview anyone about anything.
Even when I'm laying on my back I'm never backing down
by Austin Martin on May 11, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
well looks like everyone is saying the same people over and over. I’ll throw in someone new that no one will agree with me. Joanne from MMAGirls. Oh ya! Pretty, knowledgeable, speaks well. Given I’ve never seen her in any real show tho. But she has interviewed many fights, does some training, and knows Florian.
I don't know about you guys
But the fact that ESPN was able to show fight highlights immediately after the event was a big plus for me. Boxing PPVs, mainly the big ones like Pacquiao vs. Hatton never get KO highlights shown on cable TV, let alone highlights of the fight itself. Maybe you get snippets of clips on FNF but even then they won’t show you the punch that put the opponent to sleep. I’m happy that the UFC is not as strict on pay-per-view footage being shown on other networks after the fact like boxing is.
Anik is a good host, Florian is excellent, Rashad’s smile is creepy. I think that’s a pretty good trio right there. When Rashad isn’t there they can put in Randy Couture or a Stephan Bonnar.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
In which case, that's still very sweet.
I can understand the online exception.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
How about Frank Trigg.. I remember he did ok on those pride shows that got me started on mma.
by pandaboy99 on May 11, 2010 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
He's got to be punch drunk by now.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
No. He gets the women too excited.
Oh….OHH…OHHH!! OH OH OH! OHOHO!
I like Franklin McNeil.
He’s not as bad as people are making him out to be.
by HappyLittleTreez on May 11, 2010 2:37 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
how can you argue
that saying JDS has good BJJ because he subed CroCop, is ‘not that bad’?
"Your not gonna jab and shoulder roll your way away from Brock Lesnar; He is gonna fuck you." - Joe 'High as Fuck' Rogan
this is the only thing people bring up tho. Where are his other mistakes? Literally hadn’t heard a word about McNeil until he screwed that up and now people say how horrible he is and only use this one example. Point out his other mistakes so we can see how bad he is plz.
Not true
I did a huge rant on McNeil early into my radio show last year.
The guy wrote a column and said Anderson Silva had world-class jiu-jitsu. I’m sorry, but this is patently absurd. The guy hasn’t even competed or won at the Brasileros, much less Abu Dhabi, Copa do Mundo or the Mundials. The term world-class actually means something and it’s a demonstrated capability to compete at the elite, established hierarchical levels already in place. Silva doesn’t even belong in that conversation.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
The only counter to the world class argument I could point out
Is Andre Galvao having World Class BJJ and constantly getting swept and given a gift decision against Luke Stewart, who while also a Black Belt, isn’t in discussion when talking about Elite Level BJJ competitors.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
In MMA
Silva hasn’t even competed on the world stage in BJJ. He doesn’t belong in the conversation.
Olympic wrestlers get taken down in MMA, but in wrestling, we know they’re world-class (at one point, anyway).
Silva has to at least prove something at the Brazilian state championships before we can talk about such a distinction.
It’s carrying water for a talking point he can’t even justify.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
I think the problem is that for MMA, Silva’s BJJ is actually pretty high level, he has a very good offensive guard.
I think the problem is that McNiel didn’t say world class BJJ for MMA. Marcelo Garcia is world class BJJ but it didn’t translate to MMA, same with Galvao’s.
Guys like Jacare and Maia and Werdum are realy the only World Class BJJ guys in and outside of MMA. The rest don’t translate.
Either way, the problem with McNiel besides his knowledge is that due to the fact he has a very apparent lisp, you can’t put him on national tv. It just doesn’t seem professional when there are other more knowledgable journalists available.
Follow me on twitter @thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That's right
If we are talking boxing or wrestling of BJJ in a MMA context, well yeah, Silva’s got some world-class abilities in some of those things. But in pure BJJ, there’s no evidence to suggest he’d get anything other than a rape.
What McNeil and Davies do, and to me this is the crux of the issue, is not that they are wrong. MMA moves too fast and is too hard to predict to always be right or even mostly right. It’s that they make mistakes that knowledge, thoughtful people most likely wouldn’t. They’ve other got bias or comprehension issues that compel them to make mistakes professional analysts likely would avoid.
Everyone’s going to be wrong in MMA. It’s sort of a great equalizer like that. But there are levels to reporting (which is different than analysis), levels to analysis and levels to broadcasting. Not everyone’s good at them and I admit the choices in MMA are slim pickings, but there’s a baseline that shouldn’t be dipped below.
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Jesus
“What McNeil and Davies do, and to me this is the crux of the issue, is not that they are wrong. MMA moves too fast and is too hard to predict to always be right or even mostly right. It’s that they make mistakes that knowledge, thoughtful people most likely wouldn’t. They’ve other got bias or comprehension issues that compel them to make mistakes professional analysts likely would avoid.”
Should read:
What McNeil and Davies do, and to me this is the crux of the issue, is not that they are wrong. MMA moves too fast and is too hard to predict to always be right or even mostly right. It’s that they make mistakes that knowledgeable, thoughtful people most likely wouldn’t. They’ve either got bias or comprehension issues that compel them to make mistakes professional analysts likely would avoid.
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Exactly
The point about his ground game being solid because he submitted Crocop is something that takes 2 minutes to look up, and 5 minutes to watch. But the fact is, he ended up being right about JDS’ ground game as he was able to sweept to stand up when under a very top heavy BJJ champ in Gonzaga, which shows he has at least a pretty good ground game.
I just think that while there are slim pickings, there are other options. I wouldn’t be averse to seeing you because you are knowledgable about the sport and seem to be getting more comfortable infront of the camera. But there is no reason to not have someone better than McNeil when there are also retired fighters who are much better spoken and knowledgable about the sport. Renaldo woulnd’t be terrible either.
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by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Dos Santos didn’t really sweep Gonzaga.Gonzaga took him down,Dos Santos landed on his hands and knees,and he just stood back up the instant he hit the mat.
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Thanks for clearing this up
I just remember Gonzaga attempting a takedown and the scramble to the feet, this at least means he has some knowledge. That’s the only point I was making.
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by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That just means he has good take down defense.Does not mean he has a good ground game.Which is what you were getting at origanaly,in trying to defend McNeil.
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Okay, I just watched it, Gonzaga shoots a double, and JDS lands on his stomach, then stands up and works his way out of a body lock, this is all BJJ related. He’s a purple belt under Nog so he probably has a decent ground game and that was definitely on a scramble.
Either way, I’m just playing devils advocate in trying to defend McNeil.
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by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The assumption that he has a great ground game just because he trains with Nog is absurd.Mark Munoz trains with Nog,and he damn near got subbed by Kendall Grove in his last fight.
And trying to defend McNeil is just silly.If McNeil wanted to make a case for JDS’ ground game,he could have chosen just about anything other than saying,“Well,he submitted Cro Cop”,which is patently false when used for McNeil’s arguement,since Cro Cop submitted to punches on the feet.That fight never went to the floor.
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dear mr luke thomas
I must advise you not to play into thisredengine’s delusional “Luke Thomas is my BFF” fantasies. it will only lead to him threatening legal action when things turn sour
everyones favorite whipping boy
by glassjawsh on May 11, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yikes dude, can you get off my dick?
Seriously, that shit’s over with.
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by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Let it go
Or you’re both banned.
Final warning. Not one more comment about it.
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Done
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by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
He actually competed in World BJJ Championships.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvLvqUxnp4U
(I’m not not saying that he’s world class though)
"- His nickname is "fly", so I look forward to see him fly out of the ring after I punch him.
- He says that I'm known as a "fly"...but flies like shit, so I'm gonna be all over you."
by dancingChicken on May 12, 2010 5:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Well he does have a black belt FROM a world class BJJ practitioner.
Why nit pick? The point he was trying to make is Anderson is a bad ass on the ground too. I think you are looking to far into it.
by HappyLittleTreez on May 11, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
No
It’s called understanding hierarchy and where actors play in those levels. It informs overall judgment and contributes to more thoughtful insight.
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Just because he hasn’t proved himself in BJJ Competition doesn’t mean anything about his actual BJJ. The rule set is completely different. For one thing you get punched and elbowed once it hits the ground in MMA.
Maybe your definition of world class is different. IMO, if Big Nog deems you ready for a black belt then you are at a world class level.
by HappyLittleTreez on May 11, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
"Maybe your definition of world class is different. IMO, if Big Nog deems you ready for a black belt then you are at a world class level."
This couldn’t possibly be more wrong even if you tried.
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Buddy, you're too smart for you're own good.
Now you’re just being pretentious.
by HappyLittleTreez on May 11, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you even read what Thomas said in the first place?
Big Nog doesn’t determine world class, successfully competing in world events does. That’s it.
Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.
by jebushchrist on May 11, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Big Nog never did that well on the international level in BJJ,FWIW.
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by Brian Mayes on May 12, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Nog didn’t accomplish much in pure BJJ, so I’m not sure if I’d call him “world class” either. In MMA however…
"- His nickname is "fly", so I look forward to see him fly out of the ring after I punch him.
- He says that I'm known as a "fly"...but flies like shit, so I'm gonna be all over you."
by dancingChicken on May 12, 2010 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions
He talks like Sylvester the Cat
How can you put him on National TV?!
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by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i hate commenting on this site after the thisredengine debacle but....
the fact that ESPN ponied up the cash to show the finish of the main event (as opposed to stills or some action but no finish) goes a long way into showing how committed/serious the world wide leader is in putting MMA on their airwaves.
they could have half assed it but they didn’t and that is kind of a big deal
everyones favorite whipping boy
Oh hey friend
How’s things on Cage Potato?
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by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Get away from him!
Let me show you the way to the elitist door, okay? We don’t want to deal with people of his kind, again.
"It's fourth and fifteen and you're looking at a full-court press." - Lt. Frank Drebin, Police Squad
ahahahahahah
I’m dead.
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by Matthew Roth on May 11, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
only bad thing was the show got cut off early and I had to watch the rest of it online ;(
I enjoyed having the fighters come up one by one and talk about their fights. Better than watching the post-fight press conference. Funny tho, Dana completely bailed on the post-fight presser “I’m outta here, you can ask the fighters questions if you want” and he just left. He went to the EPSN thing but it was after the show wasn’t on television anymore.
mike chiappetta would be the best 3 rd person
Comic Book Guy: The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity…
Homer: Oh, so they have Internet on computers now!
Was McNeil a former boxer?
Cuz from the stuttering, weird pauses, slurring and just his lack of knowledge, every time I see him speak I picture that he’s suffered multiple concussions.
by MikeD32 on May 11, 2010 4:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I personally like McNeil.
His predicitons are about 50% but his sources are normally spot on. He blew it this weekend with the “Shogun’s knee is hurt”. I think alot of people may have lost money based on that piece of misinformation.
by knowone on May 11, 2010 5:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You do realize this is ESPN we are talking about.
They will pick the worst talent possible, not because they don’t want MMA Live to succeed, but because they are incompetent when it comes to any knowledge of who’s capable of good commentary and who’s horrible at it.
Gareth Davies complained that Bisping really should have won the decision over Wanderlei,and would have if he “just wouldn’t have taken that illegal knee”.That’s fan boy forum stuff,right there.
As for Franklin McNeil-he thought a submission from punches on the feet equalled a good ground game.And that’s just the one glaring thing that everyone points to.He says something incredibly stupid just about every week.Doesn’t anyone remember when he claimed Kimbo would be a good heavyweight boxer?
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There is a perfect explanation for why Davies is on that show. He used to be a regular on the old UFC-sponsored MMA show on Setanta Sports called Ultimate Talk. That program died when Setanta went under and lost the UFC rights, which eventually landed with ESPN UK. ESPNUK was one of the first stations to carry MMA Live, so someone in a position to decide these things rewarded Davies for his loyalty and made sure the UK fans are (poorly) represented on that show.
Anyway, as far as suitable panelists go… Ariel Helwani is a terrible choice for obvious reasons. If we’re going to put a video reporter on the show, I’d go with Karen Bryant. She has more experience and is much more telegenic. Plus with her on the panel, it wouldn’t be such a sausage fest.
Ariel Helwani is a terrible choice for obvious reasons
Maybe I’m dense but what obvious reasons?
I'm a lover not a fighter
Well for starters, his current job precludes him from doing this job, and he is a video reporter, not an opinion maker.
I like Ariel Helwani. But look at what he does, look at every studio show that exists in the world, and tell me how he fits? No one does rambling 10 minute interviews on sports television.
by Jonathan Snowden on May 12, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Without sounding too condescending here, I think a lot of fans are pretty naive about the MMA media. The people constantly rooting for Helwani to pop up everywhere just like him more than the other video reporters because he is the most prolific. I don’t think anyone is suggesting he’d actually make a good fit with that show, they’re just cheerleading in general. Kind of like when the subject of commentary comes up and people want to make ridiculous pairings of color commentators, like Bas Rutten and Joe Rogan with no PBP guy in the middle.
Rutten and Rogan could just yell alternating catchphrases
“Liver”
“World Class”
“El Guapo”
“He’s Rocked!”
by Jonathan Snowden on May 12, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I love the Karen Bryant idea. But if we’re going w/ a female:
by steak_knife on May 11, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I do enjoy a good sausage fest.
Karyn Bryant is good I think? I don’t know much about her but I’m subscribed to her youtube chan ;o.
I still stick by my choice! mmmm so good.
by handlas on May 11, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who this is? WHO THIS IS?
"I am a man who pisses largely and frequently, which they say is a sign of great mental activity" -Henry Miller-
by Neil Manich on May 12, 2010 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d support Karen Bryant being on there. I totally forgot about her, but she is passionate about the sport and comfortable on television.
by Michael Rome on May 11, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to see Randy Couture. Maybe that’s why MMA guys never retire…since they have no broadcasting jobs to move into. Would be nice to see Randy make a move like that.
And I wouldn’t mind seeing some legit media guys like Luke Thomas on there (as long as it didn’t mess up BE or the radio show).
Aerial would be a good add on, but better to let him keep doing interviews just like he does and just use them on the big show and give him the exposure he deserves.
"I'm going to strip them of their health. I bring the pain, a lot of pain."" - Tyson
Thank you for all the kind words.
And, for my money, give me Luke’s rapist hands or Gross’ beard, or give me death.
Nobody mentioned Taz or Michael Cole?
What is this place? Serious journalism? I demand me some Gorilla Monsoon and Bobby “The Brain” Heenan on the mic.
Well…Gorilla is dead and Heenan had throat cancer.
…sorry to be a downer
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 12, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm from the UK...
and I don’t even want Gareth Davies on MMA Live. Don’t get me wrong, I like the guy and strictly as a journalist, he does a good job, but when he’s in the studio, I don’t feel like he adds all too much to the equation.
I don’t blame him for picking UK fighters to win since he usually implies that he’s got to back them despite knowing they’re unlikely to win (as he did with Hardy). I think that the reason he backs them is partly to instill some common ground with (stereotypical) UK MMA fans. In reality, we all know Hardy’s going to get tooled but Davies seems to feel he needs to back UK fighters. I think he also backs them to try and maintain the rapport that he has with the UK fighters.
I’d like to see Mir on MMA Live again. I’m pretty sure he’s been on the show before and he’s a fine option to have in the studio. He’s an articulate speaker and often makes good points whilst being able to offer his unique perspective as a UFC fighter.
Get Florian, Mir and Rashad in the studio and I’m one happy dude.
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