I'm taking on the "Mafia" - who's in my corner?
by VikingPhotography on Apr 3, 2010 8:33 AM EDT
Email
PrintTaking a leaf out of Nate "The Rock" Quarry's book, I'm finding myself in a spat with the Fight Mafia in an effort to get paid for their commercial use of a photograph I took - one they used without a licensing arrangement or consent to do so - details are here
It took Nate several months to get paid the nearly $8000 he was owed by Noel Brooks' company; I'm not seeking nearly that much from him - all I'm asking is that his company respects my copyrights and compensate me for work of mine which they've already used.
Please feel free to pass this message along in the creative and MMA communities out there. Who's in my corner for this one??
UPDATE: April 4, 2010
Between Twitter, BE, Facebook and my blog, Noel Books has responded here and also by (a slightly less lengthy) email to me directly.
Noel's request that I furnish him with hard-copy proof is a reasonable one; the proof of ownership resides in the NEF file that was recorded by one of my Nikon D3 camera at the time of caputre. Embedded in this RAW image will be the date and time of capture along with the serial number of the camera that was used, along with all the camera control settings, what type of lens was used etc. - this is, in essence, a "Digital Negative" and an original print (full resolution TIFF or JPG) made from such a "negative" will also contain the same information.
All going well, I hope to have this issue resolved in a few weeks - there's the small matter of me heading out to UFC 112 in Abu Dhabi first but, as soon as I get back from that trip, I'll access my image archives and get the ball rolling to have this matter settled.
I'd like to thank everyone in the BE community for your continued support - I can't adequately put into words what this means to me. Naturally I'll keep everyone in the loop as to the progress and eventual outcome/resolution of this issue.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
61 comments
|
55 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I'm rec'ing this and hoping that maybe the Mods/Editors will front page this
twitter.com/thisredengine
They will
If you read his blog post, they pulled the “you’re a MMA fan, you shouldn’t want money” and “we’ll give you a photo credit” cards. They really don’t know how to deal with copy writes.
twitter.com/thisredengine
Fight Mafia : Email bullies
Quote #1: “If you don’t mind we can have further correspondance after Dan’s fight as distracting him with this matter at this time is not appropriate.”
Translation: “WE are professionals, we say Dan Hardy has no representation, we want to get our promotional time and ignore you now.”
Quote #2: “I assume you are a MMA fan and hopefully understand.”
Translation: A BS phrase to attempt to make you feel bad. Could also be taken as a shot on your professionalism if you are grumpy.
Quote #3: “Dan also might have a fee if images of him are being sold for licensing purposes.”
Translation: Thinly-veiled threat from someone ignorant of the law. When cornered, ignorant and having no defense – go offense!
.
.
FIGHT MAFIA – HARMING THE COMMUNITY ONE SHADY DEAL AT A TIME.
Is their money too green and crisp for you?
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 3, 2010 10:32 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Wait it isn't the same photo
He’s wearing a bandana in theirs…
I hope this is what they say. It would probably be the greatest thing ever.
twitter.com/thisredengine
Its kind of crazy that somebody can just take a picture of you and profit from it as well.
by b2tharad on Apr 3, 2010 11:13 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
are you talking about people making money from photography?
by Anton Tabuena on Apr 3, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I should clarify. I think its strange that someone could just take a picture of someone famous and make a profit off of that picture without the subject being compensated from those profits. I know that legally it is acceptable but I personally think its a little messed up.
Seriously?
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
Did I stutter?
How would you feel if some random person came up and snapped a picture of you and the next thing you know he is selling the picture he took to magazines or internet sites or whatever and you not only could do nothing to stop him from doing it but also got 0 compensation from the money this person was making off of a picture of you?
is this Sean Penn posting under an alias?
just kidding. In a way I understand your position, but it has long been the standard that any person in a public place can be photographed and the photo becomes the property of the photographer.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
It’s futile, but I actually do agree with you.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Apr 3, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
There are limitations
In the US and UK, I can take a picture of almost anyone and
a) retain it for personal, private viewing
b) publish it as a work of art (this is open to interpretation in legal context)
c) license it for use in an editorial (news reporting) context where the subject is relevant to the story
What I can’t do is
d) use that person’s identifiable likeness to promote or advertise any business or commercial endeavour without their consent – this is usually done with a model release
e) publish or license a photograph taken of a person in such a setting where they would normally expect a degree of privacy i.e. shots take of them through a window into their home
f) publish or license any photograph where it was apparent that an act of trespass was required in order to take said photograph
Apart from that, it is also generally held that celebrities, politicians and other persons whom are “in the public eye” are afforded slightly less rights to privacy than “Joe Average” – though points e) and f) still apply to them, and point c) usually incurs the wrath of their legal counsel, since it can be argued that certain celebrities are also a brand/product
It can be a bit more complex than this but this should cover the basics.
by VikingPhotography on Apr 3, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You ever consider licensing your photos through corbis, getty, or veer?
I assume they would have lawyers for stuff like this.
Sure glad Lesnar got his shit straightened out.
by judonerd on Apr 3, 2010 11:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I license my entertainment shots via Getty
My UFC / MMA work is jointly owned by me and ESPN… though this particular shot of Dan Hardy was taken “off the clock”, as it were – being that it happened at the post-fight party for UFC 105.
Either way, copyright law in this instance is clear cut.
1. They appropriated the image without payment or my consent
2. They then modified the image and used it in a commercial (advertising) context
3. Given an option to either license the image or pay a fee for the unauthorised use, they have (so far) declined to do either
What Fight Mafia are hoping is that this I don’t have the teeth or will to see this through – and I’m not that guy.
by VikingPhotography on Apr 3, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Viking – I’m a copyright litigator in my real life. If you want to bounce things off of me, shoot me a pm. Your understanding of the law is correct. It’s not a complicated case, but the question is whether you want to escalate this by retaining an attorney and threatening a lawsuit (at which point they’d be foolish to fight). Did you, by chance, register that photo with the US Copyright Office before Fight Mafia used it? I doubt it but it’s worth asking.
And for anybody in the arts (artists, photographers, etc.), if you create a piece/shot/video that you may want to commercialize, consider paying the modest fee and registering the work with the US Copyright Office. If you do so within three months of your first publication of the work, or before somebody else infringes the work, you get a few advantages; the biggest ones are the availability of statutory damages (which are nice when you can’t really show that you were damages or the other side made money — think the record companies’ lawsuits against hapless students) and attorneys’ fees (if successful).
Being overrated is overrated.
Thanks
As a UK based photographer, I believe that I don’t have to register my works with the US Copyright Office as the Berne convention applies… besides, the Fight Mafia is a Canadian company (go figure)
I’ll PM you when I’m more compus mentus.
by VikingPhotography on Apr 3, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
vancouver bc has your back buddy!
Cigano, it is your time to avenge your master's loss!
Making the world a better place, one dirtbag at a time.
And the Vancouver press.
If TFM doesn’t sort this out, drop me a note – cparry@vancouversun.com – I’ll make him famous.
http://www.vancouversun.com/mma
by Ozzz on Apr 3, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
It's awesome how tight of a community bloody elbow is
Everyone seems pretty genuine about this sort of thing and anyone who can pass word along seems to want to.
Props to Bloody Elbow for being a legit community.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Apr 4, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
From this and from the dealings they had with Nate Quarry, I can only think that the people at Fight Mafia are giant douchebags. And it doesn’t bode well for their company if the people in charge have no understanding of basic IP laws. Business Law 101, folks. I hope you get this sorted out quickly!
But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a stick - Proverbs 10:13
Thanks, so do I
And btw, that’s a sweet avatar pic you have
(hint – I shot it) :)
by VikingPhotography on Apr 3, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s going to be one of the Top-10 MMA photos for a while. I’m still impressed with it.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 3, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I've spread word about them to managers before,
and I’ll be sure to circulate your story as well. I’d be interested to see if they’ve kept up on the UFC sponsorship fees and if the brass there are aware of the repeated issues Fight Mafia has created. If fans make enough noise, there could be an impending ban. Worked on Hoelzer Reich.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Definitely got your back on this one.
And why hasn’t this been promoted to the front page yet? I understand it’s not really “news” in the grand scheme of things, but Viking has been a pretty solid contributor here, and it ties in with the Nate Quarry story. Fight Mafia needs to continue to be exposed for its bad business practices.
Let’s get this front paged!
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
It's not going to be front paged
We totally support Martin in his fight, but this just isn’t front page news.
Besides, it’ll have a longer lasting impact at the top of the recommended FanPosts.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I'm with Kid Nate here
This is not news per se; being that I am one of the involved parties and posting my version of events, the BE staff can’t simply take this and promote it to the front page.
For that to happen, BE staff would have to solicit feedback / opinion from Noel Brooks or “The Fight Mafia” and then collate their own write-up.
NEWS has to be grounded in research and independent fact checking; anything else is merely opinion
by VikingPhotography on Apr 3, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
to be honest, i think you’re going to have a tough time with this one. one of the things about copyright laws involving photographs, music, and art in general is if the image is changed enough (if they went through an added step of putting the image through an actual filter before putting on the add ons) then i don’t think they can be charged. i
by Austin Martin on Apr 3, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
also, i just read that you tagged the image of hardy without copyrighting or putting your name on it, so you’re definitely going to have a hard time. i would ask them to simply put your name on the original photo so you can get the cred, but you’re gonna have a hard time getting any money
by Austin Martin on Apr 3, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point.
Now that I think about it, it would last longer in the FanPosts. I should have known better. Guess that’s why you work here and I’m just a lurker who chimes in twice a month! :P
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Apr 3, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
When will the UFC ban TheFightMafia?
I mean, considering there was a Hayabusa logo across their Hardy bandana at the last UFC, perhaps they don’t need to (the guy can’t even fill in his paperwork correctly to have his company displayed on his own gear?), but this is just one of many situations of these guys playing fast and loose.
The worst part is, they never own it. It’s always someone else’s fault.
http://www.vancouversun.com/mma
These guys are clearly scumbags.
Even though you were “off the clock” for espn when you did these, I would lean on them to make sure they can get this story into Zuffa’s ear to help make more of a headache for them.
^this
They’re not in Hoelzer Reich territory yet, but being willfully ignorant and intentionally douchey to this degree should come back to bite them in the keister. HARD.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Apr 4, 2010 5:53 AM EDT up reply actions
HR is a totally different thing, but (at least in my mind) the whole point of the sponsorship fees was to make sure that the sponsors were legit and not screwing people over. The money from those fees should go to the people that are getting screwed, and then zuffa can return the rest and then the sponsor is “banned.”
I’m just wondering how many more occurances of fight mafia screwing people have went untold…I’m sure there’s quite a lot, especially if the amount of money they shorted someone was less (like for a fighter in the undercard or a small show).
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Runnerup of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
The site that I write for (FightLockdown.com) was supposed to have a deal in place with Fight Mafia to be a featured sponsor of ours and offer contest prizes and such to our members. Originally, the deal was supposed to be for 4 shirts per month.
One piece of merchandise has been given away. The site was founded 13 months ago. You do the math.
Just a shady, shady company. Whether it be at the highest levels (the whole Quarry deal), or a small MMA site, these guys just like to screw everybody. The people running the company are just a disgrace to MMA at this point.
Check out the rest of my stuff at FightLockdown.com
At least they aren't dumb enough to steal from Nintendo
by smoogy2 on Apr 4, 2010 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Who would buy apparel from these guys at this point?
Seriously?
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 5, 2010 5:49 PM EDT reply actions
With 49 rec’s, this is now the most-rec’ed fanpost at BE, supplanting your other fanpost about Joe Stevenson’s picture. You have #1 & #2.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 5, 2010 9:04 PM EDT reply actions
Dammit, link didn't work. Try again:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/fanposts/popular/all_time
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 5, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Weird that two are in the past week.
I blog at Ridiculous Upside. I know you'll love it.
by Scott Schroeder on Apr 6, 2010 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Stay strong, VP
Hope things work out for you. Mafia’s logic in terms of property law seems weak at best.
certified warlord
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
