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Will Japan Ever Produce a Consensus Number One Champion?

Hatsu Hioki bombs Rumina Sato at Shooto Tradition IV back in 2008. Is Hioki Japan's only hope for a top fighter in the world?

One of the conclusions that fans have come to realize after Gilbert Melendez's domination of creative submission artist Shinya Aoki on Saturday evening during Strikeforce's Nashville event is that Aoki has been highly overrated for a number of years. The blame can't solely be laid on fans, writers, and analysts, and while I'm sure there will be plenty of discussion from fans saying that they predicted that Aoki would crumble to American competition -- the fact of the matter is that we need the proof to back up the claims.

Melendez's range striking, punches into the guard, and ability to maintain posture and avoid Aoki's submission attempts completely demolished any idea that Aoki had about trying to effectively produce offense in the battle. In fact, the fight was an one-sided beatdown that has caused a re-thinking in where Aoki would stand in rankings, in discussions regarding UFC competition, and in a broader case -- where Japanese MMA stands.

As Luke Thomas pointed out in his radio broadcast with 106.7 The Fan, I also agree that Aoki probably couldn't beat Tyson Griffin in the UFC, and he's a lower top ten fighter. Why the sudden change? We now have evidence that supports all the claims that elite wrestlers with decent striking can batter the Japanese phenom. Unfortunately, the UFC lightweight division is littered with those same fighters, and many of North America's up and comers fit the same mold as well.

But I want to touch more on the broader arguments from fans. More specifically, there have been some arguments that Japanese MMA is simply unable to compete with the systems of fighting developed in North America and Brazil.

The interesting part about the entire argument is that it's brought me to a point where I need to think about why there is this appeal to find the next great Japanese fighter, even among hardcore fans. Maybe it stems from the glorious days of PRIDE, the viewings of older Shooto events in which Japanese fighters took a beating and kept on ticking, or possibly the honor, pageantry, and pride they've showed during events in their homeland. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but there is this interest from the hardcore fanbase in finding this super athlete in a land where mixed martial arts is molded into the culture.

Will Japan ever produce such fighters? We could take a meticulous look at their systems within the country such as their amateur wrestling programs, Judo and Karate programs, and all of the various training available, but most of us come back to the conclusion that the collegiate wrestling program in the United States is the sole reason why North American fighters continue to have huge success and Japanese fighters lose in those match-ups.

Star-divide

Japan also struggles to accept the measures of weight cutting and having guys fight at a weight that's advantageous to their success. Michihiro Omigawa's drop in weight created a monster. Why aren't more guys doing that?

Eventually, an Asian-born fighter will shock the world and become a real threat to the top competition, but those nations will need athletes who are willing to travel for training and fully commit to becoming the best. Right now, the only hope left at lightweight is for Tatsuya Kawajiri, who has solid wrestling and a brawling style of striking, to go on a miraculous run in Strikeforce and then head to the UFC. Will he do it? Probably not. 

Hatsu Hioki is the only real threat to a top spot in any division in mixed martial arts. But there is the always-present problem of crossover battles and switching from Japan-based promotions to the United States. Hioki has fought a few times in the States with success against lesser grapplers than himself, but how would he fair against the aggressive wrestlers of North America? It's something I'd like to find out.

The hardcore fan in me would love to see some sort of change in Japan from their camps and their athletes, and with that change -- a supreme athlete born to resurrect a dying Japanese MMA market. It may be too little, too late as there are already signs of a demise, but rest assured -- MMA will continue in the tiny country to our West. One day, it'll rise again.

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Tatsuya Kawajiri

Check the sig. If he could only get his chance

"I have to carry out another fine moment before I die."
-Tatsuya Kawajiri-

by Erich Vowell on Apr 20, 2010 11:32 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm a huge Crusher fan

But he’d get murked by the Top 5. Weight and Reach are the two main things that will keep him from attaining the No. 1.

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Apr 20, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

silly question.

tyson griffin hasn’t even beaten anyone even considered to be in top 5.

everything dana white says is a complete lie

by slantedwindows on Apr 20, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is that silly, neither has Kawajiri...

I think Griffin is a better striker and a better wrestler… Kawajiri does have more power though.

by truck on Apr 20, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

hansen, jz, shaolin.

none of those guys were ever top 5?

everything dana white says is a complete lie

by slantedwindows on Apr 20, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think those guys are all extremely overrated as well.

Plus they have all lost to Aoki and I don’t think Aoki would beat Griffin.

by truck on Apr 20, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hansen was so in most MMA websites top 5 after he beat Aoki and JZ a few years ago was up there on top LW list after he beat Shaolin.

by Shocbomb on Apr 20, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

What’s silly is how you fail to mention how competitive he has been with everyone that has beaten him

It’s not as if this guy is getting his ass kicked he is on the top 5 level and currently right now I have him ranked #5 LW in the world. I don’t get how people knock Tyson Griffen he’s one tough bastard.

by p123 on Apr 20, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

It'd be competitive

But no

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Apr 20, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

"I have to carry out another fine moment before I die."
-Tatsuya Kawajiri-

by Erich Vowell on Apr 20, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am a Kawajiri nuthugger.

You can’t convince me.

"I have to carry out another fine moment before I die."
-Tatsuya Kawajiri-

by Erich Vowell on Apr 20, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought I hear that Kawajiri cuts a significant amount of weight these days.

Does he have a particularly short reach? I know he’s not short for the division, height-wise.

by JRN on Apr 20, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

He has a shor reach (67 I think) He walks around at 168. He used to walk around at about 175.

"I have to carry out another fine moment before I die."
-Tatsuya Kawajiri-

by Erich Vowell on Apr 20, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea

His lack of reach was made very apparent in the Gomi fight.

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Apr 20, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have followed Kawajiri since his SHOOTO days and I’m inclined to believe that he would be highly competitive against everyone in the top5. Although he suffers from a reach advantage, his stifling top game combined with his power wrestling would cause problems for many in the division. I also believe he is more well-rounded than other LW fighters with similar styles to him (Gray Maynard, Sean Sherk) and that would give him a slight advantage over them.

The problem with Kawajiri though, is that he often throws away the gameplan and starts to brawl with his opponent. He attributes this to his emotions getting the best of him. This was clearly the case in the Melendez fight (which I thought he won) and the Alvarez fight; both fights he could’ve easily won if he stuck to the gameplan.

I truly believe this is what would prevent him from being a top3 LW, not his reach nor anything else.

by andrew861 on Apr 21, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Aoki beats Kawajiri does Japanese MMa fall even farther?

I think Melendez has better MMA striking and grappling than Tatsuya Kawajiri, so I don’t think it is unrealistic.

by truck on Apr 20, 2010 11:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Weight cuts are a huge part of it I believe. Plus american comp is more diverse and better equipped to fight any kind of fighter. I don’t like how a fighter can actually climb as high as Aoki only fighting in japan, he failed miserably against melendez, it was damn near embarassing.

Consider yourself warned, im offensive and creative like handicap porn

by II SMASH II on Apr 20, 2010 11:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Thats the biggest issue with him being over hyped. He was able to completely avoid an entire class of fighters all the while being pushed up the census rankings.

by YoungGun on Apr 20, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's kind of missing the point though

Since Melendez was competing in the same pool of fighters as Aoki for the last few years. He’s been ducking the boxer/wrestler guys including Kawajiri. He managed to beat Alvarez thanks to the crab walk.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Apr 20, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Melendez was barely in the top a year ago... He has sky rocketed off his last two victories.

Even if they have been fighting in the same talent pool, I still think there is a difference. Aoki has been clearly and completely one dimensional throughout his career.

Melendez on the otherhand has been working to develop a well rounded game. He won a lot of fights with athleticism and wrestling, since then striking has improved greatly.

Melendez looks like a legit top fighter because he is well rounded.

Aoki always had a huge flaw…

by truck on Apr 20, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah but Aoki beat more top fighters

well rounded or not. kid racked up some major wins.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Apr 20, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I agree 100%.

I’m just saying you can see a more complete fighter when you look at Melendez.

Aoki always had the question of how he would handle a solid wrestle / boxer…

I feel much the same way about Junior Dos Santos. I like the kid and sure he has some impressive wins, but lets see how he fairs against someone who can take him down before we get caried away.

by truck on Apr 20, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

It seems to me that the lack of a weigth cut and wrestling are the biggest factors

Guys are going into matches visably smaller and this makes the lack of takedown defense even more harmful. Plus a lot of Japanese fighters enter the sport with a Judo base. I don’t think Judo has translated to MMA as well as some martial arts.

by truck on Apr 20, 2010 11:44 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't think there can be a consensus #1 champ that is untested out side of Japan.

The weight cutting is a big difference, but frankly, I question if there arn’t cultural issues surrounding training that will always be an issue.

by rask4p on Apr 20, 2010 11:45 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

BJ Kojima was doing ok for awhile… until he ran into Brazilians… And doesn’t know how to forumulate a gameplan.

"I have to carry out another fine moment before I die."
-Tatsuya Kawajiri-

by Erich Vowell on Apr 20, 2010 11:46 AM EDT reply actions  

You got Crusher, Hioki, but I dont think they will ever be number 1 cause they wont fight the top guys.

Crusher would have to come to the UFC and win the UFC LW title to be considered the best, or Hioki come to the UFC and fight Aldo or Faber and win.

Crusher can beat Aoki for the Dream title, then beat Gilbert for the SF title, and he still wouldnt be considered the best,.

They are the two guys that are left that are top ranked guys.

by KRIS27 on Apr 20, 2010 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Not sure, but I'm high on Katsunori Kikuno.

Love his style with the zombie stance. He had Alvarez in some serious trouble when they fought.

by HappyLittleTreez on Apr 20, 2010 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

ive never been huge on alvarez though

aoki loss makes him look even worse, but all ive ever seen from alvarez was a decent wrestler with gaping holes in his striking

by milk72 on Apr 20, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kikuno has room for improvement

I think he has the ability to be a star but again some Japanese MMA fighters don’t improve like they need to…

AWmusic - mp3 blog.
http://twitter.com/awmusicblog

by achengy on Apr 20, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about...

Akiyama? Or Kikuno? I’m honestly asking; I don’t really know enough about these guys, but I’ve heard talk about them and their records and the fights I’ve seen have been impressive.

"The common denominator of the Universe is not harmony, but chaos, hostility, and murder."

by Ephemeral Artery on Apr 20, 2010 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I think Akiyama is a sleeper

but he’ll have to cut down to welterweight and there GSP awaits.
Kikuno’s fight with Eddie Alvarez showed that he’s got some real limitations against someone with strong boxing.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Apr 20, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Akiyama

Yoshihiro Akiyama is fairly undersized at middleweight, he could do well at 170 if he managed to cut enough weight, he walks around at 190.

by lolumad on Apr 20, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

he's so damn short, too

it felt like Belcher towered over him at UFC 100

We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.

by Anthony Pace on Apr 20, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Akiyama’s a valuable asset, right? It seems more likely that Dana would “strongly encourage” him to drop to 170 to keep him out of FEG’s hands

Like being disappointed? Sweet! Follow @teddwelch on Twitter!

by Tedd Welch on Apr 20, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is Akiyama a draw to the casual fan?

I don’t think any of them know who he is…

by truck on Apr 20, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

No but he is huge in Korea in Japan and Zuffa has TV deals in bolth countries and is working to get bigger in bolth markets. There is not to many bigger a draw in bolth Japan or Korea then Akiyama

by Shocbomb on Apr 20, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Akiyama is a small MW. Very small. He should be training and cutting for WW where I think he could do well.

I’m curious to see Sung Jung in the WEC against Leonard Garcia.

by swells2048 on Apr 20, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Werner Herzog FTMFW!!!

Love that quote!

Deadliest Warrior Returns April 20!!!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 20, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think it’d be cool if Kyotaro started training MMA.

We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.

by Anthony Pace on Apr 20, 2010 12:13 PM EDT reply actions  

the sound of Kyotaro crying after beating Aerts will forever haunt my dreams

by mocavious sam on Apr 20, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

has been highly overrated?

no. that’s like saying bj penn was highly overrated. both have beaten a string of quality opponents

aoki has beaten hansen, JZ, shaolin, and eddie alvarez. how is that overrated?

if anything, gil had a better game plan, and i see him getting beaten more than half the time by all of those guys.

everything dana white says is a complete lie

by slantedwindows on Apr 20, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

There's a difference between losing a debated decision

And mounting zero offense in five rounds aside from a failed armbar(?) attempt. Aoki was [effing] outclassed athletically.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 20, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

They are pretty good at ninja warrior

So they gave us MMA

Consider yourself warned, im offensive and creative like handicap porn

by II SMASH II on Apr 20, 2010 12:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Consensus #1 Super-Hulk Champion

So I guess that answers the question with a big YES!

by rzor on Apr 20, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

bj lost to frankie edgar, and bj was a HUGE favorite to win by a larger margin than aoki. how come no one’s saying he’s overrated?

everything dana white says is a complete lie

by slantedwindows on Apr 20, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Coz most are too busy dragging out fightlinker stats claiming it was a robbery.

Funny how those same folks arent dragging out the fightlinker stats for Mousasi v King Mo.

by GeeDub on Apr 20, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

i dunno. it looked like mousasi just gave up in that fight. it was a little depressing.

everything dana white says is a complete lie

by slantedwindows on Apr 20, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

bj lost to frankie edgar, and bj was a HUGE favorite to win by a larger margin than aoki. how come no one’s saying he’s overrated?

1) Nobody called Penn overrated before the fight
2) Penn doesn’t have a glaring weakness that could cost him every fight against a solid wrestler.
3) The Penn / Edgar fight was close, the Melendez / Aoki fight was a blowout.

by truck on Apr 20, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

1) Nobody called Penn overrated before the fight

This actually serves to suggest BJ was overrated. If you say BJs boxing is way better than Edgars then BJ loses in a fight to Edgar where boxing was the major skillset used, the logical conclusion is…….“Hey, maybe BJs boxing isnt as good as I thought it was”. In other words……he was overrated.

Fortunately for BJ, either himself or his fans always seem to have excuses for him. Grease against GSP, poor conditioning and training camps other times, robbed by the judges against Edgar. The man has liquid WIN pumping through his veins but all these fucked up things keep messing with his god given right to sit atop the LW rankings!!! Hell, I even heard someone mention that his dog dying the previous day to the Edgar fight may have influenced him. I hope they were joking but it wouldnt surprise me if they were. BJ has some loyal, one eyed fans. There is always a reason why fighters lose, but it doesnt change the fact that a loss is a loss.

Dunno why I went on a BJ rant. I think he is a stud of a fighter but its time people realized he actually needs to deliver on his ‘potential’ for it to actually count for something.

by GeeDub on Apr 21, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

True This

On the occasions when Melendez sat in Aoki’s guard, he was trying to wedge him up against the fence, which is huge for stopping hip movement. Also, the ring (square) makes it easier to cut opponents off, which is big for Aoki’s jump-on-them-and-get-them-down-somehow style.

by CaptainArmbar on Apr 20, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

i completely agree with you

except aoki foolishly said the cage made no difference. that proud bastard.

everything dana white says is a complete lie

by slantedwindows on Apr 20, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate Aoki I mean hate him and I think those are all great points. I love how just becasue Aoki gets beat all of a sudden he was never a top LW and MMA in Japan in now dead and all its fighters are also overrated. If this was anyother fighter people would also bring up ths is the first time he fought not only in America but in a cage but sence its Aoki and he is so dam hated buy MMA fans its not even a issue but for some reason every other fighter it is there first loss in a cage or the first time they fight oversea’s. This whole just makes me laugh.

I just ask how come people did not bring up how much Gil was overrated after he got beat in first Ishida fight ? It makes no sence fighters win and loose its about the match up and styles and possibly setting not your nationality

by Shocbomb on Apr 20, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wrestling and wieght cutting is the major problem Japanese fighters face

But honestly I can’t even think of a really good Japanese striker that has been tested outside of Japan. The 135 that fights in the WEC is pretty good

by doonerthesooner on Apr 20, 2010 12:57 PM EDT reply actions  

this is the reason jp stars won't become popular in the us

people are too ignorant and lazy to properly learn names

everything dana white says is a complete lie

by slantedwindows on Apr 20, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

This Guy?

"I have to carry out another fine moment before I die."
-Tatsuya Kawajiri-

by Erich Vowell on Apr 20, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait a minute…who the hell is that guy? Looks familiar but I can’t place it.

by HappyLittleTreez on Apr 21, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

The tool from MTV that got signed with the WWE

Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade

by Damon O. on Apr 21, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ahhh, thanks. Now I’m sorry I asked.

by HappyLittleTreez on Apr 21, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned some of the more glaring differences

Notably the way US and Japanese MMA handle strikes on the ground. It seems almost like an apples to oranges comparison sometimes – knees to the head on the ground in Japan and the ban of elbows in Strikeforce seem to make a world of difference.

Why does Strikeforce ban the use of elbows on the ground when they’re part of the Unified Rules? That’s never made sense to me.

Get rid of the ramp!

by ihateemo on Apr 20, 2010 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

So it's not in the Unified Rules?

And no other promotions besides the UFC use these rules?

I’m not understand your point.

Get rid of the ramp!

by ihateemo on Apr 20, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

UNDERSTANDING

God, I need caffeine.

Get rid of the ramp!

by ihateemo on Apr 20, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

the unified rules are exactly like the octagon: a standard that the UFC laid out to try and position themselves as market leaders. it’s been working so far, but hardly “unified” at all, considering who developed them (the UFC)

everything dana white says is a complete lie

by slantedwindows on Apr 20, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought the rules were imposed by the govenment...

Strikeforce is able to take out elbows but they aren’t able to add knees to grounded opponents or anything like that because it is illegal.

by truck on Apr 20, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

they are

why do you think the UFC hired Keith Kizer?

everything dana white says is a complete lie

by slantedwindows on Apr 20, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

For a better llink of communication between themselves and the governing body...

I thought you were implying that the UFc was responsible for the unified rules…

by truck on Apr 20, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kizer is the head of the Nevada State Athletic Commission. He does not work for the UFC.

Just BE.

by mattman73 on Apr 20, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm hoping he meant

Marc Ratner…former head of the NSAC.

by swells2048 on Apr 20, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i did

everything dana white says is a complete lie

by slantedwindows on Apr 20, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh never mind, I just read your signature

I shall disregard your comments now.

Get rid of the ramp!

by ihateemo on Apr 20, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think knees to the head on the gorund would level the playing field quite a bit… It might make some wrestlers think a little harder about shooting for a takedown.

by truck on Apr 20, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d love to see knees to the head in US mma. I’d also love to see the refs be able to issue yellow cards for inaction. The ground game would be completely different.

"We don't need no water, let the Badr Hari burn!" - Michael Schiavello

by Jackie Maden on Apr 20, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are right it would make stuffing a take down and getting a front head alot more of a advantage plus it would help wrestlers do the same also. And not only would it make a Front head lock and North South great positions to have it would make side control so much for dangerous also. Kness to the head in North American MMA would open up so much for new techniques and postions. It would forse alot more scrambles and make alot of fighters think twice if they failed there take down attempt or shooting half ass single or double legs.

by Shocbomb on Apr 20, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

My understanding of the reason some promos don't allow elbows on the ground...

…is to minimise unpopular cut stoppages. I know that,s why Cage Rage didn’t allow em

B-A-K-A-S-U-R-V-I-V-O-R

by Mattyjudo on Apr 20, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unlikely

Two reasons. The most obvious is that Japan is a small nation, meaning they have a small population to draw from. The second is that Japanese fighters seem, generally, to train mostly with other Japanese fighters. Aside from narrowing the talent pool, it’s not always clear what motivates the Japanese fighter — namely, it’s not clear that they are primarily motivated by strictly following a winning gameplan (a combination of honor/entertainment/stubborness/toughness seems to preclude smart fighting).

by superflat on Apr 20, 2010 1:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Japan isn’t that small of a country population wise. They need to move their training out of Japan and start working with a wider range of styles and body types.

…and if they could get some more wrestlers into MMA. They do really well in international wrestling competition, but I haven’t seen very many compete in MMA. The one freestyle wrestler on the last Sengoku card is all I can think of.

by xiaoli on Apr 20, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions  

I would always cite weight-cutting as the major issue personally

I think it’s the weight-cutting culture and the work ethic involved that are the main reasons America’s college wrestling programme breeds so many good fighters. much more so than the skillset involved IMO

B-A-K-A-S-U-R-V-I-V-O-R

by Mattyjudo on Apr 20, 2010 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, weight-cutting definitely.

I think everyone can agree on that.

by xiaoli on Apr 20, 2010 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

For the record...

Megumi Fujii is Japanese and the Consensus #1 Women’s MMA fighter at 115. The soon-to-be-retiring Miku Matsumoto is the Consensus #1 Women’s MMA fighter at 105. In men’s MMA, or even higher weight classes in Women’s MMA, they don’t have any #1 guys. Even at Flyweight or Strawweight.

by Chromium on Apr 20, 2010 7:53 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

haha Nice response!!! Thread question asked and answered!!!

by GeeDub on Apr 21, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

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