WAAA-HHHHH: The Decline of Balls in MMA
by Bloody Elbow on Apr 19, 2010 3:32 PM EDT
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Eugene S. Robinson's resume is as interesting and varied as he is. From writing for several major magazines (GQ, The Wire, Harp, Hustler..etc) to writing multiple books to fronting the band Oxbow there is no confusing Eugene with a man lacking in life experience. As such, there may be no one more interesting to hear speak about the post-fight "festivities" from this past Saturday. Eugene penned the following for Bloody Elbow:
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In 1984 amateur wrestling great Dave Schultz [or perhaps it was his brother Mark, the memory blurs] on his way to an Olympic gold medal, "happened" to break his Turkish opponents arm. This was not MMA, this was amateur WRESTLING [so in all likelihood the arm was broken not with any sort of hyperextension but just through the sheer force of CRUSH]. He was largely reprimanded for it and his briefest of responses ran along the lines of "I guess they're turning wrestling into a sissy sport."
Flash forward to NOW, where a few days after one of the greatest MMA cards ever – JAKE SHIELDS v. DAN HENDERSON – a nation full of MMA fans, pundits and prognosticators are drinking the kool aid and wringing their hands like a coffee klatch all concerned about how MMA "looks" to the rest of America. Websites, this one included, like grandmothers, are talking about "the black eye" the sports been given and about how execrable [look it up] the post-fight fight wherein Team Cesar Gracie taught Jason MAYHEM Miller a lesson in deportment was.
Well, I am here to call bullshit on that.
The past 365 days have seen one of football's premier quarterbacks arrested for raping drunk chicks in bathrooms. Er, allegedly. High school football players paralyzed, some brain damaged. Numerous drug busts. And within hours of penning this article a world champion boxer has just committed suicide after murdering his wife. And not a whimper about "black eyes" or these sports "looking bad." There are also basebrawls, basketbrawls and hockey fights a'plenty. Yeah: crickets, in terms of public outcry.
I submit that MMA nowadays is so tender that the sensitive susans who are worried about CBS [admittedly the most conservative of networks out there…and coincidentally smarting over it] and the sport suffering because, imagine this, fighters got into a fight at a fight…a fight brought about by a man named MAYHEM…well, the ladies protesteth too much.
There is a tragedy here: Shields gutsy underdog win over a much-hyped [deservedly], Dan Henderson put to bed the stinky and lingering knock against Shields that he fights boring fights. It was a rollercoaster model of intensity with buckets of intestinal fortitude, toughness and more never-say-die-tude than many have witnessed for awhile. And an even greater tragedy here would be the seeming low viewer numbers CBS managed to swing this fight's way [which incidentally had little or nothing to do with the brawl]. Or the ways the community has been stumbling over itself to partake in this weirdly American ritual of the apology. THESE are tragedies. But Nick and Nate Diaz, Gil Melendez and Jake Shields reacting like we ALL would have reacted to Miller's possibly misplaced show of "what about me"-ism, is not one of them.
Sure, CBS might drop MMA. But it's got nothing to do with a little bit of chaos in the cage. The reality is America's lingering uncomfortability with MMA has everything to do with the honesty with which MMA addresses the most human of all human endeavors: the management of conflict. MMA is the most honest sport in America today. Nick and Nate Diaz, like them or hate them, are some of the most honest among the honest. And Jake Shields comported himself like a gentleman and a scholar. In a sport that's not a sissy sport.
So my advice to all involved: fine no one. Ban no one. Get them all in the cage on an upcoming card [Miller's objective after all], and stop the trembling and tearful knee-knocking concerns about America's take on MMA.
Or…start following tennis. I hear they're looking to expand their fan base.
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EUGENE S. ROBINSON is the author of FIGHT: Everything you ever wanted to know about ass kicking but were afraid you'd get your ass kicked for asking [Harper Collins], as well as the just released crime saga A LONG SLOW SCREW [Robotic Boot].
You can follow Eugene's exploits on Facebook or at his website.
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On its face
I agree with the spirit of this article, but one of its premises if flawed.
The past 365 days have seen one of football’s premier quarterbacks arrested for raping drunk chicks in bathrooms. Er, allegedly. High school football players paralyzed, some brain damaged. Numerous drug busts. And within hours of penning this article a world champion boxer has just committed suicide after murdering his wife. And not a whimper about “black eyes” or these sports “looking bad.” There are also basebrawls, basketbrawls and hockey fights a’plenty. Yeah: crickets, in terms of public outcry
This simply isn’t accurate. The reason those athletes get punished, and why all involved on the CBS brawl should be, is because there IS public outcry and it does make those sports look bad.
Public outcry? The only outcry I’ve heard has come from insiders and writers. This whole outcry thing is kind of like a self fulfilling prophesy. I think this is more of a comment on our media culture then anything.
Exactly, I haven’t read or heard anything about this besides from MMA sites
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni
You haven't been watching the news.
Got affiliate coverage on it here. There has been mainstream press regarding it.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I haven't seen any
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.watchkalibrun.com/2010/4/18/1429864/back-from-the-future-espns-around
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
That isn't real...
that was WKR doing a satirical piece on what they expected ESPN to say
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I have been looking for any major media backlash on this… there hasn’t been anything. Only thing that will come out of it is what Dana probably says on the Jim Rome show this week.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Apr 19, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t seen anything from major news either; a link on Fark was the closest thing and a few buried articles on sports sites like espn and yahoo.
Although I guess every single person that tuned in for news on CBS that night saw it live.
My blah blah blah
My photography site
"expect us to take you seriously or think you’re even remotely intelligent?" - Luke Thomas
This is what WKR expects to hear (hasn’t happened)..
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Apr 19, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Rome Just Burned On It
I expect the PTI folks to go nuts on it.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
They just cracked a joke on the Big Finish… not much more than I expected. They don’t have an agenda against MMA, they just don’t care about it
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
About which of the situations are you talking about? Big Ben raping girls has certainly had it’s fair share of outcry.
by Chris Barton on Apr 19, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
But therein lies the problem with Big Ben. Most of the conversation around Big Ben has been about how it makes the NFL look, not actually about the you know, rapings. People care more about the NFL as a brand than they do for those poor girls. And that’s the problem here as well, no perspective.
by Neil Manich on Apr 19, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
That’s sort of outside of the scope of the point I was trying to make but I agree with you 100%. It’s an embarrassing and despicable critique of our culture.
by Chris Barton on Apr 19, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a rec
If it was Joe Nobody from the local steel mill that did what Ben did, it wouldn’t get a fraction of the coverage it has.
Why should the NFL not care about their company?
I’m sure everyone, including the ppl at the NFL care about the welfare of those girls, but at the same time what kind of recourse do they have for them? To say the NFL “cares more” about their brand than rape is just irresponsible.
There is just MUCH MORE to talk about when it comes to the NFL protecting their brand than the alleged rape of some girls. After you discuss the facts of the case what else can someone do? How can we show that we “care more” about rape, and not the NFL’s brand?
It’s a lose lose situation, that’s why the NFL is all up in Ben’s shit even though he wasn’t charged with a crime.
right is right no matter what you do with it.
we are the fans, we have been the fans, and we own our sport. we still hold this sport to a higher standard than every other sport. i don’t care what boxing has done, baseball, football, etc. what happened saturday night was a black eye for the sport, and i don’t want to hide its shame and curl up behind what other sports are doing.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Apr 19, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
I totally agree
So it’s ok because everybody else does just as bad or worse? We don’t have our own standards, we just look at what other people do and think we could be just as bad. That’s how riots start.
the article calls the sport out for its “balls” yet the tone of the whole article is that of an 8 year old boy curled up in the corner scared of the beating he’s about to get, so he starts saying “billy spit at the teacher and called her a whore”.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
I don’t think it’s that well written either:
Websites, this one included, like grandmothers, are talking about “the black eye” the sports been given and about how execrable [look it up] the post-fight fight wherein Team Cesar Gracie taught Jason MAYHEM Miller a lesson in deportment was.
He’s trying to insult our intelligence (“look it up”) in a very unworkable sentance. Sure he uses words like ‘wherein’ and ‘deportment’, but he can’t use commas, he’s missing at least one apostrophe (after ‘sports’) and that location of the ‘was’ at the end is hella uncomfortable (probably should have gone between ‘fight’ and ‘wherein’ with a comma after it, but I’d rework it all).
Using fancy words doesn’t make you a writer. A decent editor does :D
by verloc on Apr 19, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I guess it’s unreasonable to expect that all stories here on BE be perfect, but seeing that he is a published author I expected a more well-written article, not something that could have been replaced by : “it’s fighting, and all complainers are a bunch of pussies”. At least that would have been less pretentious and a shorter read.
The article is well written
I disagree with it’s core points much like you do but the article is well written. The author is obviously a fan of the style of writing that arose in America in the late ‘50s, ’60s and early ’70s. It’s not meant to be perfectly grammatically correct and uses the language itself as an aesthetic.
"writing that arose in America in the late ‘50s, ’60s and early ’70s"
So, shitty writing.
That it was once fashionable does not make it good.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
What you quote is grammatical, and I disagree with your assessment of where the “was” should go. The “wherein” clause is modifying “fight” so it makes sense to put it after the noun it’s modifying.
I find it hilarious that all of these posters, none of whom could likely string together two coherent sentences if his life were riding on it, are arguing that this piece isn’t well written. (OK, that’s too strong. There are seemingly a fair number of intelligent posters on BE.) Yes, it’s hyperbolic , but as a piece of rhetoric, it works just fine.
by The Darkness on Apr 19, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I challenge you to find my problems in stringing two sentences together (minus my spelling of ‘sentance’).
I’m sorry I’m being a grammar nazi but grammar counts in good writing. His grammar, at least in that bit, is really bad. As for it’s rhetorical efficacy, it obviously works for some and not others, so not completely effective.
By the way, it’s “its,” not “it’s.”
Sure glad Lesnar got his shit straightened out.
by judonerd on Apr 20, 2010 1:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
At some point...
Completely perfect grammar or punctuation gives way to creativity and effective communication.
Im not saying you cant be a creative, effective communicator with by-the-book writing, but come on…. haven’t you guyes ever read a Cormac McCarthy book?
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
I guess that Beckett “is” glad that he didn’t live long enough to write for BE. He would get crucified.
by dancingChicken on Apr 19, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Communication isn't a thing.
Strict nominalism FTW!
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Thanks to Brent for posting this piece. Please continue to do so, as just because not everyone likes it that is no reason to stop posting thought provoking articles.
Personally, I completely disagree with the entire author’s entire premise. The level of condescension is positively Francesca-ian.
Regarding the grammar, wherein following fight is perfectly acceptable. However I agree with “verloc” the comma usage is poor and placing “was” at the conclusion of is indeed “hella uncomfortable”. Not buying “language as part of the aesthetic” in that instance.
Apparently, Eugene Robinson learned nothing from his incident the night before the Super Bowl. So sad.
by BrothersGottaAndyHug on Apr 19, 2010 7:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Damn it. Way to beat me to the Super bowl reference.
by tysonmcneely on Apr 19, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks to Brent for posting this piece. Please continue to do so, as just because not everyone likes it that is no reason to stop posting thought provoking articles.
Personally, I completely disagree with the entire author’s entire premise. The level of condescension is positively Francesca-ian.
Regarding the grammar, wherein following fight is perfectly acceptable. However I agree with “verloc” the comma usage is poor and placing “was” at the conclusion of is indeed “hella uncomfortable”. Not buying “language as part of the aesthetic” in that instance.
Apparently, Eugene Robinson learned nothing from his incident the night before the Super Bowl. So sad.
by BrothersGottaAndyHug on Apr 19, 2010 7:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's fair for you to feel that way
But it’s also fair for me not to feel that way. There won’t ever be a consensus on this, just a lot of wasted bluster and back-and-forth that will settle down until it happens again. And it wiil happen again.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
One of the greatest MMA cards ever?
Also, this is just bad writing.
by StephenDedalus on Apr 19, 2010 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Channeling his inner Hunter Thompson
I thought the article was well written and engaging, unfortunately it seems like the author really hopes he can blind you with his Tompson-esque style of writing in the hopes that you’ll agree with him on that basis.
I was just making fun
Of his incredibly pretentious Joycean screen-name. But yeah, this article was definitely flashy.
yeah, he lost me at the whole “exciting rollercoaster” description of the Shields Henderson fight. Maybe he only watched the first round and didn’t know which guy was Shields.
I thought that fight was excellent. In fact I can understand why GSP fans were so mad at me after the Hardy fight now. Its kind of frustrating hearing people rip a fight you loved. The first round looked like Henderson was just going to bomb Shields, but then Shields came back from impossible odds and took down and mounted Dan Fucking Henderson over and over. I thought it was awesome.
I didn’t think it was a terrible fight, but a rollercoaster? once Dan gassed in the second round, the rollercoaster was more of a lazy trot downhill. Dan didn’t win 60 seconds of the last 3 rounds combined.
by Stanlee on Apr 19, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s the lack of multilingual puns and portmanteaux that gets me.
by StephenDedalus on Apr 19, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
How could you read (most of) what’s written here and elsewhere related to MMA and think this article constitutes “bad writing”? Just because you disagree with a point of view doesn’t mean the piece sucks.
by The Darkness on Apr 19, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sorry, you’re right. This piece is fantastic. I’m going to suggest its inclusion in an upcoming anthology of the very best sports journalism.
by StephenDedalus on Apr 19, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
So you think all MMA writing is terrible, correct? That actually may be the case, but I was assuming you were implying that there was at least some MMA writing that’s not terrible and that was better written than this article. If you believe all MMA writing is terrible, why bother commenting? Although you didn’t say so, you might have meant that this piece was substantively terrible, which, still, is a stretch given that it’s an opinion piece that’s meant to stir the spot. In any case, you are – probably – sophisticated enough to know that just because something isn’t terrible doesn’t mean it’s fabulous, so I won’t belabor that point. In short, I just don’t understand how anyone could reasonably post what you did.
by The Darkness on Apr 19, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think all MMA writing is terrible.
You were wrong to assume I was making any kind of statement, implied or otherwise, on the general state of MMA writing. I said only that this piece is bad writing. I didn’t even say bad MMA writing, just bad writing, period. It exhibits the kind of hackneyed clash between grandiose vocabulary — or what the author believes to be grandiose — and juvenile sentiment (of the ‘This is fighting, stop being pussies’ variety) typical of a high school student trying really hard.
by StephenDedalus on Apr 19, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That sounds somewhat cogent. Nevertheless:
What ‘grandiose’ vocabularya are you referring to? His use of the word “execrable”? Is a fan of James Joyce really going to take issue with someone’s using “grandiose” vocabulary:)? That of course is an ad hominem attack on my part, but I still find your opinion on some level, umm, tedious. Also how is this sort of clash “hackneyed”? I follow MMA fairly religiously at this point, and I certainly haven’t read anything like this piece (online at least) related to MMA. I’m sure other articles are written in this style but i’d guess not quite as often as to make such a clash “hackneyed”. And isn’t this the sort of “clash” that makes authors like Martin Amis hilarious (e.g., John Self’s analysis of rape in Money)? Or do you think Amis’s writing is terrible for similar reasons? Maybe you do. Then I’d be curious to see an example of what you think good writing is, especially good MMA writing.
by The Darkness on Apr 19, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course my opinion on this is tedious! This whole discussion is tedious and pointless. But occasionally I like to argue so for now I’ll continue.
“Grandiose,” it’s that or what the author believes it to be. I don’t have a problem with the word “execrable,” I’m referring to things like this:
“never-say-die-tude”
“what about me”-ism"
“The reality is America’s lingering uncomfortability with MMA has everything to do with the honesty with which MMA addresses the most human of all human endeavors: the management of conflict”
That sentence seems to me incredibly forced, clumsy, etc. “Uncomfortability” isn’t even a word. (Considering my chosen nickname, the quips about Joyce are unavoidable, but let’s not go comparing Eugene S. Robinson with Joyce. Different levels, different aims, different contexts, etc.)
I don’t like Amis and I don’t find him very funny. His father was far funnier, and the better writer too. My favorite writers are Herman Melville, Samuel Beckett, Thomas Pynchon, James Joyce and Brian O’Nolan (aka Flann O’Brien aka Myles na gCopaleen). Gore Vidal (mainly for his essays), H.L. Mencken and Don DeLillo are up there too, with plenty of company. Examples of good writing? I guess I’d offer the chapter “The Whiteness of the Whale” from Moby-Dick, or episode 16 in Part I of Gravity’s Rainbow, or Stephen Dedalus’s epiphany in APOTAAAYM (beginning with ‘He could wait no longer’ in the section just preceding ch. 5), etc.
You keep turning on the point of my opinion on MMA writing. In this case it’s a conflict of your own invention. But for the record I enjoy reading Sam Sheridan, Josh Gross and Jake Rossen (I think he’s hilarious), and maybe a few others whose names escape me. I’m not big on sportswriting in general. I like reading Matt Taibbi on Boston sports teams, and I liked Mailer’s observations on boxing. Plimpton’s too.
by StephenDedalus on Apr 19, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I hated The Whiteness of the Whale.
That was the only part of the book I skipped. Picking from Gravity’s Rainbow, I’d go with Byron the Light Bulb.
Deadliest Warrior Returns April 20!!!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 19, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
The Whiteness of the Whale was my absolute favorite chapter! What’d you hate about it?
Everyone picks Byron the Bulb, it’s the most famous part of the book. Great nonetheless, and a fine choice. Anybody wanting to read for free the Byron section (I’m sure there are throngs of you) can do so here: http://bit.ly/aMhhH4
by StephenDedalus on Apr 20, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
MMA really has lost its balls.
Sure glad Lesnar got his shit straightened out.
by judonerd on Apr 20, 2010 1:08 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
I just saw it as pointless. I get it was all about fear and what-not, but I got bored with the listing of things that are white. I adore Moby-Dick – I consider it the Greatest American Novel, both in literariness and American-ness. That one chapter, though, just could have been excised and nothing would have been lost; rather, it would have tightened up the book slightly. Much of the other seemingly-fluff chapters, such as describing whale art, flesh out both whaling and man’s attempts to depict/control nature. But was it necessary to describe “white”?
NB: If you ever want to nerd-out on books, hit up my email on my profile page.
Deadliest Warrior Returns April 20!!!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 20, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, I think Rossen’s a good writer too. So in the end we agree on something:)
by The Darkness on Apr 20, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I like this article.
I agree with the fact that the post fight scuffle is being oversold.
Who cares really.
TN athletic commission (who could fine, suspend, or terminate fighter licenses), Strikeforce (who could fine or suspend fighters), CBS (who can pull MMA from their station), Dana White (who can sway media, fans, and refuse to sign involved fighters), fans (who essentially fund the entire sport)
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
Disagree
You wanna talk about oversold? Let’s start with one the original premises of this article, that Saturday night’s card was one of the greatest ever. Whether evaluated before, during or after, that notion is patently FALSE.
As such, the brawl at the end was a sour exclamation point on a dull, unengaging and poorly executed night of fights. It’s apologists like the author here who would make you believe that this sort of behavior is okay, despite the fact that all these men participate in a sport where they can fairly and legally deal with their physical aggression.
honestly it does happen quite often in sports.
Bowe vs. Gollota was Fuckin insanity. Is it right? No. But sometimes shit jumps off. I am sure you have been in a fight.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 2:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
being in a fight, being jumped, and jumping someone are all completely different things.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
true, but both are illegal (generally )
I think nate&nick are Fuckin assholes and jumping someone is a pussy move. However shit happens. No one died, Mayhem is OK with it, and we should be and too. Its just a fight, that’s what these guys do for fun….. Fight. It sets up heat for Mayhem vs. Diaz.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 3:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is very well written for an article that completely misses the point.
by ufc4 on Apr 19, 2010 2:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
that's strange
I think it’s poorly written but hits the nail on the head (mostly)
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
the fight was a work. ( that means fake)
And if It wasn’t it should have been. People that are into mma wont care too much. People that were appalled were never gonna be fans and any wrestling fans just thought it was cool.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 2:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
From the casuals… I heard the melee is what saved the show and got people talking (some are saying it was staged to leave interest for future events). From the hardcores, it was unacceptable and made MMA look bad… =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Apr 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
its hard work bein right all the time.
But someone has to do it. Lol
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 2:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
great
lets us know when you find that someone
by RevoReal on Apr 19, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
lol
Nice!!!!
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 7:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i disagree
it’s not just that some people think it’ll make the sport look bad. pragmatically, i don’t care about that, i still get at least a ppv per month and tuf. it’s not like shitfarce was putting on stellar shows in the first place.
but
i don’t want my money going to dicks like the diaz brothers. they’re not superstars and they don’t deserve superstar treatment. and telling me i’m some kind of sissy or that other sports have controversies are stupidly fallacious arguments.
believe it or not
not all of us want our favorite fighters to street fighting badasses. sometimes we think those guys are equal parts sad, pathetic and annoying.
i dont like the Diaz boys.
I am a Damien Maia fan, I think He acts how a martial artist should. But I bet this ends up raising ratings for mma. It certainly isn’t the worst thing that could have happened .
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 4:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
misses the point
all these other sports – football, boxing, basketball, whatever – are already accepted and get mainstream coverage and support. mma doesn’t. it doesn’t matter that there are unsportsmanlike things taking place in every sport. what matters is that as mma is trying to grow, and what happened on saturday night hurt that process.
it has nothing to do with balls.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
Apparently, MSNBC and CNN have covered it so far, and I’m guessing that it’ll make the Monday afternoon ESPN Round (Rome, SportsNation, ATH, PTI) and Rome is already trying to book Dana this week to talk about it.
Apparently, MSNBC said it happened at a UFC event.
Rome has Dana White booked for his radio show tomorrow.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
i have a feeling dana white wants to be interviewed.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
and it would seem he and rome
have formed a cute little power couple.
that’s what will happen if you push to brand the entire sport as UFC. even yahoo sports has a “UFC” tab, not an MMA tab. double-edged sword and hard to blame an organization like MSNBC for not knowing the difference.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
I can't tell
if this article is being serious or snarky…It’s an interesting read, but contains the implicit assumption that MMA is on the level with other mainstream sports, which it is not.
Why is Bloody Elbow publishing this crap? The second paragraph manages, at the same time, to condescend (by assuming we don’t know what execrable means) and mangle English grammar and punctuation to the point where the last sentence is unintelligible. I know this guy has written a book; maybe he should have called the Harper Collins copy editor before dashing off this ridiculous claptrap.
by AnnieAgee on Apr 19, 2010 2:35 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
Eugene is a good guy with interesting perspectives and i felt it was very interesting to read an extremely different take on the situation. If you want us to just run more of the same on every situation that would just get boring.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus his book is great.
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
by Day Man on Apr 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As is his band
And his article on getting beaten up in Vice magazine.
Eugene Robinson is the man, no doubt.
Get rid of the ramp!
extremely different take on the situation
i’ll agree. thought the article was poor, but everyone has been so busy agreeing with each other around here, there hasn’t been to awful much discussion.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
Different perspectives = Good idea
Poorly-written drivel = Bad Idea
Writing a contrarian opinion piece is difficult. It gets harder when you insult your readers’ intelligence, make baffling use of capitalization, and employ inflammatory language for no reason (although I see the reference to “a coffee klatch of house negroes” has been scrubbed). There is surely a place for this kind of screed. I just didn’t think BE was the place.
Agreed, Brent. How did the Negroes thing make it past you? That’s pretty bush league to allow that in.
by Tim the Enchanter on Apr 19, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn’t a problem in my eyes at all. It’s still not. it was actually not taken out by me, and if it were up to me it would still be in.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it suits his style
Eugene is obviously not trying to frame his opinion in any kind of journalistic sense and that kind of flashy phrase turning fits his style of writing quite nicely.
Eh
I bet he’s a better writer than this short piece. Yeah, different perspective, but not a very well articulated one.
As others have pointed out the “look it up” and “one of the greatest MMA cards ever” comments undermine any other point he had to make.
I welcome him writing more in the future, but he sounded more like a troll than an esteemed writer in this one.
Thank for running it, Brent
You ran something that goes against the grain and does so in pretty loud and particular way. It’ll take balls to run similar stories in the future, and I hope that you do just that.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
Poppycock
Sorry, I’m not following. Where was “English grammar” (btw, thanks for clarifying that we’re not talking about Cantonese grammar here) mangled? Seriously, I’m not seeing it. I saw some dependent clauses with periods, but that’s clearly for rhetorical effect. Also how is this piece worse, grammatically or otherwise, than anything else that’s published on the Web relating to MMA? Moreover who cares?
On the whole, it’s over the top but it was entertaining.
by The Darkness on Apr 19, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
eh
There were some words or punctuation left out/misplaced that made for uncomfortable reading. It’s just stylistic preferences for me, really.
But compared to some of the comments I read down here, it was Nabokov.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
"Why is Bloody Elbow publishing this crap?"
Let me guess, you disagree with him but you can’t really find substantive counter-arguments on any specific point so you attack his “English grammar”… weak.
There’s a function on this platform called “fanposts” why not use “this crap” to more eloquently bring forth your superior views, which of course will be featured on the front page because they will undoubtedly be awesome and appropriate for the front page spot.
If Mayhem isnt mad
Then I am not mad. I wanna see Mayhem vs Diaz now.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
That’s the fight I want to see too. They can hype the fight using the photo of Diaz winding up to punch Mayhem.
by HappyLittleTreez on Apr 19, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Do it at 180, you got yourself a Showtime main event people want to see
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
This article blew my mind for about 5 seconds during which I thought that Eugene Robinson, the Pulitzer prize winning African American journalist, was dropping MMA knowledge on BE.
Can’t agree with everything in this article, but it’s a nice break from the constant stream of hand wringing over whether one thing or another is bad-for-the-sport™
lol, me too
I followed his WaPo stuff on the ’08 election pretty closely
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this thing is being overblown, but I don’t really see a problem with the parties involved apologizing (or being asked to apologize). Big Ben had to address what he did, and participants in crazy shit in the other sports (except hockey fights, and those are a totally separate issue) usually get in trouble/make some sort of statement after the fact.
otherwise, I like this dude’s style.
damn totally disagree
A) Shields still is a boring fighter. The first two rounds were dramatic because we all thought Shields was going out but he fought back. But the last three rounds were pretty flat. Shields has pillow hands.
B) NFL, NBA, MLB all have athletes that get into all kinds of crude and humiliating activity whether its running a dog fighting ring, raping drunk girls, whipping out guns in the lockerroom, etc. But they have a history of profitability with major networks and sponsors that makes them resilient to individual events that give their sports a bad image. MMA does not have this leverage. MMA is still illegal in NY. MMA is still illegal in most of Canada. MMA is still illegal in most 1st world nations.
I can’t wait for GSP-Shields. That might be the first fight ever where no one scores a single point outside of takedowns and passing to mount.
by Tim the Enchanter on Apr 19, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t Schultz get in trouble because he used a double-wristlock (kimura) to take down the other wrestler?
One of the greatest cards of all time? Seriously?
Also, there has been a huge debate here in Canada recently about violence in hockey (fights, headshots, etc.). There have been some pretty bad incidents at different levels of hockey that have gotten pretty big coverage.
"Or…start following tennis. I hear they're looking to expand their fan base"
YEAH NANCY!!!!!I fuckin love Eugene.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 2:58 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
If I’ve learned one thing from this post. It’s that I’m done asking people outside the Bloody Elbow community to pen their takes on situations.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
At least something good came from it.
by Bob Boblaw on Apr 19, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I don't think it's a good thing...
I think the community overreacted to a take on a situation that they didn’t enjoy and took opportunities to shit on someone who gets paid to write for a variety of publications taking the time to pound out a quick piece for free.
What I’m saying is that I’m done with trying to offer up little treats like this to the community.q
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Counterpoint
I think the community reacted to what they perceived to be an article that was condescending. I think bringing in outside writers is a great idea, just perhaps not this particular author.
by Worldisart on Apr 19, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think the article was condescending at all. It’s got a voice and position. And, as with almost all things Eugene, that voice is loud and the position is pretty much directly in your face.
The problem is that people are offended that someone would “tell them what to think” without pussyfooting around it in the standard way.
Clearly I don’t agree with Eugene’s stance here. I still think charges should be pressed against the Cesar Gracie guys. But the fact that Eugene strongly disagrees with me doesn’t make me think he’s being condescending.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
a nation full of MMA fans, pundits and prognosticators are drinking the kool aid and wringing their hands like a coffee klatch of house negroes
Websites, this one included, like grandmothers
and about how execrable [look it up]
that the sensitive susans who are worried about CBS
well, the ladies protesteth too much.
Or…start following tennis. I hear they’re looking to expand their fan base.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Apr 19, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
If me being pissed about this situation giving ammo to those who would like to hinder the growth of MMA, such as Bob Reilly, or those who would shit all over the sport period, like Bob Arum, makes me a “cry baby” as this piece insinuates, then forgive me and pass the fucking milk. I don’t care about Mayhem getting shut up by the Gracie crew, I thought it was fun. I agree that a lot of people are over reacting, but if you weren’t put off by the post-fight train wreck, then I think you’re falling into an MMA fan stereotype. I can appreciate the piece for what it is, but it came across as insulting, in my opinion.
"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi
by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 19, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn’t imagine a world without salty vag.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I totally agree with you Brent
I’m just saying, consider your audience. I didn’t find it condescending, but I can certainly understand how someone would.
I personally am a huge fan of this style of writing. I grew up idolizing Hunter S. Thompson and while this is the only thing I’ve read of this particular author, it certainly seems reminiscent of that “line in the sand” style of writing that Hunter was good at when he talked about sports and politics.
If nothing else I applaud the experiment and hope you at least make another go at it.
So you ran the article knowing that most of us would disagree with it and you just expected us to keep our opinions to ourselves or what? I mean if it’s fine for him to say his piece why can’t we?
by ufc4 on Apr 19, 2010 3:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
?
Why is that a response to this comment by me?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Well you guys bring in a professional shit-talker to criticize us for caring about the well being of the sport and then act like you’re disappointed to receive a negative reaction from some of us. Maybe some of the comments have been a little over the top but that’s how the Internet works.
by ufc4 on Apr 19, 2010 6:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Come on, Brent
You’re responding very defensively. Many of us have pointed out that the specific problems with this particular piece. Don’t exaggerate that to we wouldn’t want to hear from outside writers.
I’d love to hear from outside writers, so long as they have an interesting take. Take a look at the responses to the Jim Ross postings as an example.
What Eugene wrote was simplistic AND condescending. His different perspective is kind of interesting, and it was good that you posted it, but he did a poor job as a writer and can probably do better.
I think you should ask more people to write these things in an effort to make these people leave the community or screw up and get struck down with the ban hammer.
“MMA fans” need to get over the fact that everything isn’t black and white, and that their take on the situation is usually not the same one that the majority of people in the world think, and that they need to deal with that if they want to sport to grow and the fighters to get more cash.
Of course it does...
just as mine did when I said they should be suspended for a year and have charges pressed.
The point is that while my article was black, his is white (or vice versa). Personally I think it’s vital to read and comprehend all the different takes on situations this “important.” The strong left, strong right and middle-y middle.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
please dont!
This was my favorite article on the subject!
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 3:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dude he called it “one of the best MMA cards ever” C’mon son
by Bob Boblaw on Apr 19, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
people say Sonnen is a good fighter.
Everyone gets to have an opinion. Even if its wrong.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 3:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he just killed Marquardt & Okami, the man has skills.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
they both looked as bad as anyone does after they fight him, thats for sure.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 7:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If Sonnen wins I’m going to convert and start living by The Secret. I don’t think it’s all trash talk I think he is saying what he truly believes as skewed as it may be the guy is more positive and sure of himself than Tony Robbins.
If Sonnen wins I’m going to convert and start living by The Secret
Wow, that’s big, even if I think Sonnen has no chance. Would you really want nothing to come of your life, ever?
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I actually like this piece it was a different than the usual. Its always nice to have a fresh new outlook.
As for it being condescending I suppose some could see it as that but that just means they’re sissys whose feelings get hurt to easily :P
Don't listen to the jerks who post on this web site (except for me)
I liked the piece and would hope you keep publishing pieces like this. The piece was entertaining and he made some valid points. The readers’ reactions have been, for the most part, ridiculous.
by The Darkness on Apr 19, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Screw it
Eugene is notorious among his fanbase for being one of the most outspoken, adversarial and articulate people on many subjects – especially his core love of combat.
If anything you should get him to write more.
Get rid of the ramp!
by ihateemo on Apr 19, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He’s not being considered for employment here at BloodyElbow is he? This guy is published? Wow fucking wow that should be compared to the unprofessional acts of the selct fightes involved not rape.
hey bob, you spelled your name wrong
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
Breaking someone’s arm as part of the competition is different in kind from assaulting someone on television.
Forget suspensions. I want some of the Diaz brothers arrested.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Please, fights that happen within a sporting event are rarely considered criminal. The only athlete that I can think of who ever faced criminal charges was the hockey player Betruzzi. And that was because he basically made it clear he was going to retaliate for some past action before the game and then he cheap shotted the guy from behind and knocked him unconcious. Something exceptionally malicious has to occur for criminal charges to be filed in a sporting event.
One more instance
The pacers/pistons brawl also resulted in criminal charges, but that involved fans as well.
Within the run of play, sure.
Brawls happen in baseball a couple of times per season.
But those happen during the game, not during the post-game interview.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
so it would be better if they jumped in the cage during the fight?
Brawls in other sports are out of place just as much as this one. A brawl in those sports doesn’t mean the end of the world, a brawl in this sport does not mean the end of the world.
Also, those other atheletes aren't trained fighters.
Punches thrown after a boxing match routinely result in criminal charges. Heath Herring got arrested for throwing a punch before his fight even started.
There’s precedent for this.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
It's alive!
Lol, “Bloody Elbow”, the blog decided to voice his opinion after weeks of polemic and crap, and it’s angry!
I'm a lover not a fighter
by spectaa on Apr 19, 2010 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This guy writes
Like Mauro talks. Way over the top. Anyone at BE and several fans could have played devil’s advocate, and wrote a similar article but had valid points and it would have been well written.
by swells2048 on Apr 19, 2010 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Clearly not by you though.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
So because someone doesn’t have time to write a well-articulated fan-post, you decide to pay this mook for his drivel?
The entire post is contradictory because, rather than making a cogent argument, all he does is whine about the people he says are whiners.
This easy, knee-jerk garbage belongs on CagePotato. BE is too respectable a forum.
I love me some me.
by Medium Nog on Apr 19, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
1) BE is not a forum
2) who said we paid him anything?
3) Maybe stop telling us how to run the fucking site.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dear Brent,
Slow your roll. I agree with 99% of the things YOU say on this site, and I wouldn’t be actively involved if I didn’t love reading everything it had to offer, but:
1. The active discussion in the comments section provides further insight into issues beyond the articles themselves. The promotion of fanposts to the main content of the site denotes active participation by members of the community. Stop taking the usage of the word forum in the literal internet sense. BE is a forum for MMA discussion by writers and editors in addition to the fans of the site.
2. A poor assumption on my part, but the introduction “penned this for us,” to me, denoted some type of freelance article that is generally paid for in the periodical industry (yes, I know BE is not a periodical either).
3. I’m shocked at this reaction. Criticism on the poor quality of the article is equivalent to me telling you how to run the site? Doesn’t that type of authoritarian defensiveness bother you when coming from the lips of Dana White?
3a. I love this site and the way it’s run. I simply think this article is atrocious. Friday, after my finals are over, I would like to respond to this article in depth. By then, however, it will be completely forgotten.
I love me some me.
by Medium Nog on Apr 19, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
before this turns to MicahW vs. Brent Brookhouse 2.0, can we agree to disagree?
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
Shut up, Micah
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
and that was a joke for those of you who don't know that my relationship with Micah is now one of telling him to shut up
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
point 3 was aimed at everyone who is bitching about us running the piece, not you.
and still…write the fanpost on friday, link to this piece and people will remember.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Just read the above discussion with Micah. I love the idea of bringing in opinons that challenge trendy opinions.
That said, read Micah’s list of quotations. This article is dripping with condescension.
In the spirit of your treats (which are appreciated) to this community, I am going to write a fanpost that says what tried to say, but more clearly and sans-cloud of smug.
I love me some me.
We’re always told that when BE is critical of the UFC it’s because you want it to be better, and that you’re actually big fans of the product. This makes perfect sense to me.
However, you guys seem to get really defensive when your own community members don’t agree with what you’re doing. Most of the people here that don’t like this article are probably big fans of this site (I know I am, even though I’m not a regular poster). There are always going to be idiots posting here, but as far as I can tell you guys have the most reasonable and thoughtful comments section of any MMA website.
I can see why you’d want to get a different opinion on this subject, but I think a lot of us would agree that this type of writing is not something we come here for. IMO, an article like this cheapens this website. It’s BE eqivalent of the UFC signing James Toney or Kimbo Slice.
The way I see it, BE is to the UFC like the BE community is to BE. We love this place, but we’re not always going to agree with everything you do. Getting angry with us is about as useful as DW complaining about bloggers. I’m sure not everyone will agree with me on that, but whatever.
by zorba on Apr 19, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
yeah, insult a crappy site like fightlinker or fiveouncesofpain
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
Hell, if you get banned from this site, Fightlinker offer's you a job writing for them.
by RobertGBP on Apr 19, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i got banned from fiveouncesofpain for disagreeing with the editor for asterisking out God in every article some 2 or 3 years ago :D
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
Eh, the site's slowly getting better since Caplan left
Speaking of Caplan, anybody know where he is? He’s practically disappeared since WAMMA went down the tubes.
He was on the Bellator broadcast ringside. I’m going to assume he is involved with their PR as he was a part of the PR for M-1 for some time.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Apr 19, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Judge Mills Lane will allow it.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed and rec'd
I wonder if this guy’s other writing is as smug and uselessly dramatic (and hyberbole-crammed).
They will give anyone a book deal.
I love me some me.
I love you bloodyelbow community
But sometimes you love the smell of your own farts.
by Neil Manich on Apr 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
my sentiments exactly
I used to post all the time here, and while I’m sure no cares one bit that I’ve been more absent, its largely due to the fact that a lot of the posters here like to “stick their nose back under the blanket” so to speak.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
by troy145 on Apr 19, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
/runs from Brookhouse again
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
HEY YOU! GET OUT OF HERE! GO ON! GET!
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
too much commentary about the site and not the issues lately. it all starts when someone yells out, “WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO BRING DOWN THE UFC, KID NATE?”
It’s like a movie review that talks about Warner Bros. instead of the movie
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 19, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s a fair point
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Apr 20, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm… while the grammar isn’t great (neither is mine at times) and some of the supporting arguments are a bit muddled… the overall point is true. I think this has been an over reaction. The brawl probably won’t hurt Strikeforce that much in the hearts of casual fans with the exception of maybe people hitting the upper part of the 18-34 demographic. The fights themselves might have turned more fans off though.
One thing is forgotten by a lot of people. Casual fans still drive the market, and a card like that is bad for casual fans. Especially if the UFC comes back and has a stellar couple of cards of excitement. Interesting to see if Fedor draws the fans in though due to his highlight reel KO of Rogers.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Although, I don’t agree with…
But Nick and Nate Diaz, Gil Melendez and Jake Shields reacting like we ALL would have reacted to Miller’s possibly misplaced show of “what about me”-ism, is not one of them.
I don’t think I’d necessarily “beat down someone” on national television because he poked his face into my victory speech.
Definitely not a quote to get crazy mad about though. Overall, the point of the piece in its entirety isn’t bad.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Apr 19, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
That’s not how grown men act.
Gangsta wanna be’s from So Cal?Yes.
But grown ass men?No.
Check out my MMA highlight videos!
http://www.dailymotion.com/WheelchairBandit
greatest MMA cards ever
A case could be made for that, at least from a casual perspective. 3 title fights, including one featuring a legend of MMA, and a cross-promotion? Not too much of a reach, really.
certified warlord
Chill out.
I don’t totally agree with this article though I think there is a point about overreaction that was camouflaged too much, because a lot of people have missed it. I think Mr. Robinson massages reality a little bit in the name of his desired objective, but that’s no reason to be callous and turn this thread into a moderator’s nightmare.
are we overreacting
to a piece about us overreacting?!
?!?!
Hey Pete
R.I.P.
by Grappo on Apr 19, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I stopped reading when he said that was one of the best mma cards ever.
by KRIS27 on Apr 19, 2010 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Only real bones of contention:
When this happens in other sports, there are disciplinary actions taken. That’s just a fact.
And no, I wouldn’t gang up on a dude for butting in on some face time. The Diaz boys are high-strung and spoiling for a fight. They want Mayhem, talk to the matchmaker and let them settle it that way.
My major issue with this article...
Is its assumption that everyone would commit assault for some kind of damage to their “respect”, and do so in the fashion of a gang initiation.
That’s about it, the rest while definitely taking a turn for the outlandish and hyperbole out the wazoo was a fairly amusing read, even if I completely disagree with the ideas behind it.
The counter point to this article is simply all the other sports he is using as reference have been part of the sports viewers conscience for 50+ years in most cases, whereas most of the public’s lasting recognition of MMA before the last few years was that guy getting hit in the nards like 5 times in a row, before being banned as human cock-fighting.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
I agree that there has been a lot of overreaction
but it’s important to note that the people involved in this brawl were fighters who are trained to hurt people.
The potential for someone to be seriously hurt is much greater than in other sports.
Also, why is this being compared to rape and murder/suicide?
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
What most people probably don't know about Eugene
Is that he is well known for choking out hecklers at Oxbow shows. The guy loves a good scrap. This is exactly the stance I would expect him to take and while I don’t agree with it I think he phrases his argument is perfectly cogent.
Get rid of the ramp!
I guess he would be happy if BE community had one big neck :)
by dancingChicken on Apr 19, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Best MMA Cards ever? I guess he hasn't looked it up?
I love bloody elbow. I read it everyday. I know I am not going to love 100% of what I read but I usually enjoy 99% of it.
Best card ever? No, not even close. There was some good fights they were not great. I guess he hasn’t seen many MMA cards because anyone who has would clearly agree that this was a good card, not one of the best.
To say that 4 + people jumping someone doesn’t deserve a fine, penalty, or any kind of suspension. That’s just plain ignorant. That’s like saying the Pistons-Pacers brawl didn’t deserve any penalties. How stupid was that statement that he made? This isn’t the DARK AGES, this isn’t the bloods vs. the crips and their NO SNITCHES policy. This is professionally sanctioned sport. I believe they should’ve been arrested.
I love someone getting owned in the cage. I love a NASTY KTFO. I love a gruesome arm bar. What is disgusting is the crack head style beat down. If I didn’t know any better, I would’ve thought that Mayhem was a crack head and he owed his crack dealers for a 40 rock and he wasn’t paying.
The small bright side in all this is Mayhem taking responsibility for his own actions. I can’t say the same for the rest of them.
Congratulations are in order for Jake Shields for owning a legend.
I really have to disagree with the piece at the top
What happened to Miller was disgusting(same as any of these brawls, except when that guy rushed Nolan Ryan on the mound Nolan was acting in self defense) Miller was trying to hype a fight same thing that has worked for so many lately and he was assaulted he was not threatening anyone. I don’t know how they should be punished but something should happen. I don’t know if what they did was a “black eye on the sport”(Haven’t people been complaining about a lack of black eyes lately) That doesn’t change the fact that what happened was wrong.
by doonerthesooner on Apr 19, 2010 3:52 PM EDT reply actions
I logged onto Bloody Elbow
…and apparently landed on Maxim. More appeals to knee-jerk masculinity, please, I just can’t get enough.
Its all well and good that this guy doesnt think the brawl was that bad
but the mainstream media, ESPN, CBS, and everyone that matters will think its a big deal
it was already on the front page on yahoo and a top trending topic on google but jim rome, around the horn, and pti are gonna be on in a half hour, i see MMA getting torn a new one on these shows and all the good work dana and the UFC did for the past 10 years to get MMA accepted by the media has just been shit on the SF
My One Cent
1. There is some validity to his argument
2. Mr. Robinson is an excellent writer
3. I would characterize this article as being more fiction than fact
4. He seems to champion the same kind of machismo as Ernest Hemingway
5. If I remember correctly, Hemingway blew his own head off with a shotgun…. on purpose
Really? BE gives the guy who relishes in picking fights with members of his band’s audience a platform to lecture us on what a bunch of pussies he thinks we are? Because we happen to think that fights should only take place under explicitly voluntary circumstances?
Next.
I specializes in grammar fail.
Gotta correct you there
He doesn’t pick fights with people. They pick fights with him. And they lose, almost uniformly.
Get rid of the ramp!
Let me run your comment through the “pseudo-intellectual horseshit to English” translator and see what comes up. Oh here it is: Next.
Yeah, initiating violence against a non-consenting person is oh-so-cool.
These posts about the brawl have done a decent job in outing all of the thug-minded individuals in the BE community.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Apr 19, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
wow someone actually agrees with me about this… thank you sir…
all these people fixated on how the sport looks to outsiders are fucking lame!!!
by FMLftwFU on Apr 19, 2010 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I kinda liked it
to be honest :P
"Your not gonna jab and shoulder roll your way away from Brock Lesnar; He is gonna fuck you." - Joe 'High as Fuck' Rogan
in response to myself, i have a few thoughts
1. I think the worst part about the brawl was the gracie vs. mayhem mentality. these are all professional fighters, and should be ashamed that they pretty much mugged someone
2. Mayhew knew nothing good was going to come of what he said. i don’t know if he could forsee a brawl, but he had to know that his actions would come off disrespectfully. he gave the stupid mayhem face to shields, who giggled at first, and it appears that gilbert thought mayhem was getting in jake’s grill, and wanted to stop it, shoved jason, then all hell broke loose.
3. I’m a gigantic fan of both diaz’s as most of you know. I’m always on their side. except this time. kicking a downed person is despicable. they should both get sanctioned
4. cesar gracie is a moron for what he said. though i agree this is blown out of proportion, what he says lends to the idea that inside their camp this type of gang mentality is seen positively.
5. with all this said, honestly a few fines/ sanctions should be given out, but i think this is exactly what that boring card needed. noone got seriously injured so there is no true black eye, and at least SF gets a little extra publicity- because honestly, i fast forwarded through about half of that card. i thought that much lay and pray was reserved for priests.
6. It still tickles me the dichotomy in the media and our perception between actual vs. real violence- and i’m referring to wwe violence vs this. Is it better that we allow children to see moves like fighting and never back down, and watch wwe where people are getting hit with chairs and chokeslammed through tables from turnbuckles- where there is no real consequence to be seen? why aren’t people up in arms when a fake display of a person getting beaten by a chair is shown multiple times on tv, but when 7 guys scuffle with actual violence and noone gets hurt, the public is up in arms and militant fanboys call for blood?
by Austin Martin on Apr 19, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Greatest card ever?? far from it, but the card did have every thing a great card should have. Hyped next coming of christ in Mousasi who gets beat down by a dude with 6 Fights. Champion vs champion fight in which the number two guy in the world gets beaten like a red headed step child which leads to many people feeling a scene in MMA is full of people who could not hand in the North american scene. Finally a legend gets slaughtered by a guy who many considered dog meat.
The sad part is it was wrapped in an ugly package in the three fights we seen. My problem with the brawl isn’y how it hurt MMA but what it will do to strikeforce. That show was an atomic bomb that coud very well have leveled any chance Strikefoce had at getting a strong fanbase.
First off three 5 round fights with fighters who are only known by people who follow the sport.
Secondly the show went well over the time slot which is a No No.
Finally CBS are kinda iffy on MMA as it is and if it did some steller ratings then sure, but it did not and the brawl may not hurt the sport, but it gives CBS the opening it needs to drop the show. Put out a press release saying that they do not want to be connected to a sport in which people get jumped in the cage.
I fear for strikeforce not MMA.
Although I don't agree with the author...
I’m very glad this was posted on the website. It was an interesting read, and I for one actually enjoyed the writing style very much…but I’m no English professor, so what do I know? Plus I think its funny watching everybody get their panties in a bunch over grammar of all things!
YAWN
I was with a group of casual fans at the bar watching it and the only thing that they gave a damn about was the brawl at the end. “HOLY SHIT WHEN ARE THOSE TWO GONNA FIGHT?”
coming to this party late today, but oh well; I’ll throw in my two cents…
I don’t see much about this article that makes sense.
First there is a big difference between a sport still growing and attempting to get regulated in new places and sports that are already staples and bring in enough money to push through tarnishes by individuals. Not to mention a direct relation of MMA to fighting and fighters being thugs and punks, etc.
Which brings me to my second thought…individuals…there is a difference between what happens to one or two players outside of the league and what happens in the arena on national TV. Nobody has cried that war machine has given a black eye to mma or the few other guys arrested outside (or at least not enough cry that I’ve seen).
And lastly, the premise the author takes about laying everything on Miller (or at least it seems to me from several comments) shows he doesn’t really have a good attitude or temperament for judging how the mainstream would view this. Miller might deserve a little blame; but no I’m sorry, it doesn’t justify schoolyard punk ass behavior on behalf of the Gracie Camp. The talk like it’s ok to jump someone b/c they dared “disrespect” you is pretty sad. Enjoying a group of people jumping one guy is the opposite of having balls about your sport.
For an article introduced as it was I was expecting something a bit more professional I guess. Not a bad editorial that should have just been a fanpost.
My blah blah blah
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"expect us to take you seriously or think you’re even remotely intelligent?" - Luke Thomas
by JeremyShane on Apr 19, 2010 7:03 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
My two cents is this has’nt changed my view at all about MMA and at the end of the day thats all I care about. The only thing I was mad about is the fact that they had to jum,p him with a bunch of guys and to me thats a pussy move. If Melendez or Shields or the Diaz brothers were so mad why could’nt it be one on one. As a community here on BE there is a lot of “Oh no the sky might be falling” or “I hope this does’nt happen or MMA will disappear”. Well with the fans we have right now we don’t need to worry about anyone else liking it because we take care of our sport.
Yawn
If you want to kick ass, do it on your own time. MMA is, for the most part, trying to be taken seriously as a legit sport.
I have no doubt some folks thought it was cool (who does not love a hockey fight) but MMA is disliked by the majority of mainstream journalists already and this gives them more amunition.
I never knew I was such a pussy for liking MMA. Bring back Andre vs Sampras!
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
When I first heard about the brawl my first thought was all the writers and insiders getting their panties knotted up about how MMA looks to the mainstream.
Basketball used to be awesome, then they had to clean it up and it became a shell of it’s former self. Hockey was way more entertaining before they instituted all types of rules to make it “less violent”. My #1 complaint about BE is it’s anxiety every time something that happens in MMA might not appeal to the mainstream. I say just go with it. There are brawls, they break out in front of people, there’s something great about the spontaneity of it. I don’t condone it but it reminds me that I’m watching the most intense form of competition in any kind of professional sport. The most emotionally compelling and heart testing. I’d hate to see it watered down by people that are worried about the odd brawl. Yeesh. Great post.
yeah there is more than one of you around here.. the english teachers around here act like violence isnt something thats part of everyday society. No one is condoning violent acts but domestic abuse, war, true acts of brutal crime this happens everyday.. and they are worried about a “black eye” on the sport that started out as Vale Tudo no hold barred fighting.
emotions are part of life and thats why when someone is murdered with premeditation its considered a different level of the crime. the caesar gracie camp was surprised by the disrespect just like we all were. who knows what you would do in their position.. if you were a fighter, and emotions were running high… maybe you might start pushing when your career and your family’s career is being disrespected.
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