Quote of the Day: Dana White Talks Strikeforce Debacle
by Luke Thomas on Apr 19, 2010 1:00 PM EDT
in MMA News
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"Have you ever seen him do that at one of my shows?" White asked of Nathan Diaz. White said he believes the incident occurred because CBS didn’t align itself with the UFC. He said he had a tentative deal with CBS, but said that Showtime executives talked CBS into buying into the now-defunct Elite XC instead of agreeing to broadcast UFC fights.
The result, White said, was that an inferior product was put on national television. "Of course, everyone thinks I’m anti-competition, but I’m not," White said. "But everyone knows that they didn’t belong on CBS. Even if you’re the biggest UFC hater out there, you know that. Shame on CBS for this. They knew they should have been with us, but they went out and let those Showtime idiots talk them into going with Elite XC.
"Now, they’re stuck with a bush league, C-level promotion that will probably be out of business next month," he added. "And what you saw on Saturday is the kind of thing that happens when you put a product like that on national television."
...
White also had harsh words for CBS play-by-player announcer Gus Johnson. Johnson said brawls happen in MMA when there is a lot of testosterone in the cage. White was also angered by Johnson’s commentary because he said he’s spent his career building his company to make sure that such incidents do not occur.
"When have you seen anything remotely close to that happen at a UFC event?" White said. "What kind of ridiculous commentary was that? That was an idiotic thing to say. And then he was yelling at them to stop, telling them they are on national television. That was just another example of how bush league they are."
-- UFC President Dana White talking Strikeforce's Nashville show, Showtime executives, self-defeating matchmaking and more.
This is where Dana White wins the PR battle. Strikeforce's willingness to be coy allows White to be the voice of anger and frustration for MMA fans while setting the media narrative.
UPDATE: Jonathan Snowden throws a little cold water on White's accusations:
"Considering all the reprehensible stuff shown on TUF, White has a ton of nerve to talk about anyone else being low class…"
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Dana is right about Nate Diaz. The worst we get out of him at UFC events is those hard-ass staredowns and the double Stockton HeyBuddy when he triangled Kurt Pelligrino.
"Hug it out Bitch"
hmm dana talks bout strikeforce alot
only good thing come out of thihs for sf
Gus is really bad
but Mauro is worse IMO.
by swells2048 on Apr 19, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If your talking about ability and professionalism
There’s maybe four guys that can do it.
The australian DREAM commentator
Frank Mir and Randy couture (insightful as it gets)
Rogan (on good days)
I’m at a loss for words for Frank Shamrock
Everyone else= ability is too inconsistent
Worst ever is Mike Goldberg. Nothing more corny than hearing a guys father is a coal miner along with waves of repeated arbitrary information and coupled with the, “every step of the fight is the biggest deal ever.” He gets caught on ridiculous statements and then tries to argue his way out of it. The man is a complete mess brooding behind a radio voice and the UFC should Grant Rogan the right to administer several mallet blows to mike’s head over the course of the card….
by Jonnycaz2.0 on Apr 19, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bas Rutten !
For shure Bas is the best one ever !
...and Frank is even more embarassing.
I don’t know why they let him on there. He has talked down a main event fighter on three straight cards.
Cung Le’s kick’s don’t hurt.
Nick Diaz’s punches don’t hurt.
Jake Shields has not heart and is a boring fighter to watch.
to put it in perspective
“LE’s kicks don’t hurt”- Franks arm was broken by a kick
“Daiz’s punch’s don’t hurt”- Frank was Koed by Diaz
" shields has no chin" – Dan has one of biggest right hands in mma,
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 1:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
I totally agree on the Gus Johnson thing, that guy has no business being an MMA commentator and he nearly had me muting the television.
CBS need to keep him on college basketball
"I'm Nobody's FanBoy" - higgledy-piggledy
by higgledy-piggledy on Apr 19, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love Gus for NFL/CBB
He basically explodes at the end of every close game which is just awesome/funny. Really his style would translate really well to MMA but he doesn’t know shit about it.
Not afraid to nitpick
fights wre good,brawl is gona end up being a good thing,shit happens people
by ndzzy on Apr 19, 2010 1:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
no they werent and no it wont
and that shit should never happen in a ufc, wec, or even dream event they would never allow a brawl to occur, frankly its the most embarrassing moment in mma history and puts a black mark on the sport
ufc 45 is happenned
it sucked it happendd,but its not the end of the world,car racing,baseball it happens
ufc 45??
Was the UFC as popular as it is now? No. Gee, I wonder why?
I wish there was an un-rec button for comments like this.
I love me some me.
by Medium Nog on Apr 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
everyone thinks I’m anti-competition, but I’m not,
I’m a little confused by Dana, because he’s suggesting that he’s only ant-comptetition with Strikeforce because they put an inferior product on network tv, but I seem to remember the “Strikefarce” and “war” comments only coming after they offered a fighter he wanted more than he was wiling to pay.
I think the fact that he counter-programs every single Strikeforce event clearly shows that Dana is not anti-competition at all.
by Toolshed on Apr 19, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he doesn’t mind competition, as long as they stay in their place!
My blah blah blah
My photography site
"expect us to take you seriously or think you’re even remotely intelligent?" - Luke Thomas
The closest I think the UFC has come to a full brawl in the octagon were the Tank/Cabbage and Tito/Ken fights, all of which were contained quickly. How could SF have not been aware of either the Diaz bros. reputation or maintaining control of the people in the ring?
Deadliest Warrior Returns April 20!!!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 19, 2010 1:07 PM EDT reply actions
That was awful but it was on PPV and MMA hardly got off the ground.
This was on live national TV.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
by SSreporters on Apr 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'm already sick of the whole "It happened at UFC 45" thing.
The fact that Tank Abbott was still fighting should be enough to prove how irrelevant it is to today.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
"When have you seen anything remotely close to that happen at a UFC event?"
That was the question, and this is the answer, relevant or not.
Fact is, it happened, though it didn’t really rise to the level of what occurred last Saturday.
Dana hasn't stopped dancing since Saturday night
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
by 49er16 on Apr 19, 2010 1:09 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
“Listen, I’m not against competition but when you try and take food out my childrens mouth Ferraris out of my 10 car garage. You’re going down.”
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 19, 2010 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
“I need another Ferrari to drive over to Heath Herring’s house and spin donuts on his front lawn.”
"Hug it out Bitch"
by Earl Montclair on Apr 19, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
But will Heath Herring be home to see it?
Last time I checked, Brock Lesnar is punching Herring in the face repeatedly to simulate the feeling of being in a Ferrari.
He's your ferrari Heath. Shut the fuck up and go back to making your pathetic fucking action movies that go straight to DVD you fuck.
"Hug it out Bitch"
by Earl Montclair on Apr 19, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
“Fuck you for fucking nit-picking my fucking posts you stupid fucker. Fuck.”
"Hug it out Bitch"
by Earl Montclair on Apr 19, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually liked him up until Sat night. He really came off like an ass and MMA hater. Fuckem!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 19, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC 45 was a long time ago before MMA was mainstream, this was on national tv in front of a live audience. The fact is the UFC puts on a ton of shows and this kind of stuff doesn’t happen. How many times have you seen a faceoff in the cage after a UFC main event and have nothing crazy come of it? You’ve seen Brock, Wanderlei, Rashad, Rampage, GSP just to name a few in the cage after a fight promoting a possible fight and nothing even remotely close to this.
by JoeMimic on Apr 19, 2010 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Considering all the reprehensible stuff shown on TUF, White has a ton of nerve to talk about anyone else being low class…
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 19, 2010 1:16 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
I think reality TV is held to a different standard than professional sports being broadcasted live on national television.
by truck on Apr 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 46 recs
He still did it though.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
Don't try to hold Dana haters up to some sort of standard.....
They will hate regardless.
Even though TUF and the UFC dovetail with PPVs and coaches fighting and participants on the show ending up in the UFC at times, it is still A TV SHOW. Jesus people.
Nevermind the fact that the UFC wouldn't be where it is, MMA wouldn't be where it is and,
Strikeforce on CBS wouldn’t be close to an option if it wasn’t for what TUF has done for the sport.
by truck on Apr 19, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Answer me this
What action did DW take when Rampage was charged with two felonies and pleaded guilty to one?
made national news...
and isn’t that what everyone is worried about with the brawl. Not that it happened, but that people will find out that it happened via mainstream media?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I'm a little different
I just find it foolish to see grown men reduced to a brawl inside the cage even though they participate in a sport where they have a forum to legally and fairly work through their physical aggression.
But you're ok
with a professional fighter recklessly evading police and endangering people’s lives in their spare time and bringing loads of bad press toward mma while not even being issued a slap on the wrist by the president of the largest mma organization in the world?
Sound priorities.
I'm not okay with it
Don’t twist my words.
But to compare the two incidents is unfair. They aren’t the same in any regard except that at least one professional fighter was involved. It’s a piss poor argument to bring it up and it’s a red herring in terms of discussion.
Hell, if you had bothered to read my comment immediately below my first one you would have realized this.
How you viewed the situation
wasn’t really my point, the point is that DW has sat back and done nothing at times when he could have sent messages that certain behavior is unacceptable.
But, if you want completely relevant examples you can look at the punishment that DW is going to give Nate Diaz, which is absolutely nothing. He can suspend Nate for a year if he wants to send a clear message… he won’t and that’s why I think he’s a hypocrite.
bleve, calm down.
You’re acting as if you’re one of the UFC fighters and Dana just told you that you were fired or something….lol.
Dana is no saint by any stretch but you know what? Who cares? The thing is that, hypocrite or not, the Strikeforce incident has done more to provide a black-eye toward MMA as a whole than anything DW has done.
Danny Heatly killing a passenger in his car by driving into a wall makes Danny Heatly look bad...
Mary McSorley hitting a guy in the head with a hockey stcik in the middle of a game makes McSorely and hockey look bad.
by truck on Apr 19, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
If anybody believed in that logic
War Machine would never be an issue for any organization to want to pick up and promote.
Except he may be in ail the night before a show...
Was it football’s fault when OJ killed his ex?
If it happens during a broacast or during a game it is a bigger blackeye on the sport. There is no denying that.
You should tell the NFL then that conduct of its players outside the game is of no consequence to them. They seem confused about that at the moment.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
It is a black eye, but conduct in a game is more severe...
If somebody was driving dunk and raping college girls on the field it would be a different situation.
P.S. You are an idiot and I love you for it.
No one in the critical media is even saying MMA caused that incident to go down
So pretty weak analogy on top of being ridiculous.
I agree that it sucks that it happened on such a large forum with cross-over fans, I just think Miller played a huge part in it by provoking a situation.
Also, DW has the ability to actually edit out all offensive, unscripted fighting in his “reality show” and chooses to air it, giving people a skewed perception of all those who engage in this sport.
Also, DW has the ability to actually edit out all offensive, unscripted fighting in his "reality show" and chooses to air it, giving people a skewed perception of all those who engage in this sport.
No, just the ones that are engaging in the bad behavior.
I’m not outraged over the Mayhem scuffle (I was pissed that my broadcast cut away almost immediately, went to commercial and never came back) just as I’m not upset by TUF antics, but the two are not even comparable.
Hey Pete
R.I.P.
That said
I think perhaps Dana should have been a little harder on Rampage for the incident but the comparison between that and what happened on Saturday night is entirely unfair as the incidents are different in just about every conceivable way except that at least one professional fighter was involved in both.
A little harder?
He did absolutely nothing and basically said, if you’re on my good side in the organization you can get away with murder, or damn near close.
Great message to project to people analyzing the sport no?
You're also making the redherring by comparison too..
You’re trying to compare and “isolated incident” away from the sport and compare it to an ongoing incident that revolves around the same core group of guys within a single organization..
Rampage’s incident had nothing to do with fighting or with a live event in general.. Therefore, they’re not one in the same..
We’re discussing real life scenarios that occurred during a real live event, that surrounds fighting and is related to fighting..
You can’t justify either in any case, but it’s still a poor comparison as it was..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I didn't realize that
Please send me links of all the other post-fight brawls that said core group have been involved in.
KJ Noons and the Diaz Bros... Elite XC
Nick Diaz at the hospital against Joe Riggs..
I’m sorry if you fail to recognize..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Noons/Diaz
Was orchestrated, somewhat egged on by the announcer. Nate is the one flipping off Noons camp and Noons rushed Diaz.
Diaz and Riggs at the hospital… that’s a weak example.
Says you..
My point still stands as was..
The same “core group of guys”…
Next…..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
And your point was still rebutted
Anyway, I think I’ll go watch that interview where Coker calls out Miller and then I’ll read Miller’s apology for his actions causing the whole debacle.
Really ??
Call out a guy that just said a few words over the other group that threw punches, knees, kicks, etc,, all while holding one man down and proceeding to beat on him while he’s defenseless ??
Sure.. way to step up and face the problem head on.. I mean.. after all.. it is “his company on the line”..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
all while holding one man down and proceeding to beat on him while he’s defenseless ??
Dude, your perspective is ridiculously skewed. You’re coming from the point of view that Miller had absolutely no culpability than talking — that’s not what I saw and that’s not what plenty of other people saw… and that’s not how even Miller saw it in hindsight.
bleve....
Do you really want to continue to go head-to-head with MMAuthority?
He’s already made you look foolish ten times over right now.
When posting on a blog, I make it a point never to try to out-think the more knowledgeable people here ’cause I will get burned.
Hmm….Though It seems like the favorite word of the day is “Red Herring” here…. lol.
I think Dana's comments were more related to his acutual events and how they are better policed and organized.
You don’t see his event running 45 minutes late and you don’t see an uncontrollable number of people in the ring after the fight. He didn’t make a comment about punishments He said his product is superior and Strikeforce is “amature” and “bush league”. Those are completely different topics.
Learning experience
Lets look up the fourth or fifth UFC fight that they put on and nitpick… you can’t compare UFC’s current production vs. SF’s current production. There’s a learning curve and experience that are obviously important factors.
LOL
SF is not “new” to this… Maybe I suggest checking your facts here…
You’re losing your control here…
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
No, if Strikeforce does something bad, it’s because they are new at this, but when things are going swimmingly, it’s because they’ve been promoting fights for 20 years and letting professionals like those at CBS handle the production instead of those heathens over at Zuffa.
Since today is coming off of a bad showing by Strikeforce, they are new.
by Phildo on Apr 19, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As far as a large cross-over audience
they are very new to this.
Look at it this way, the UFC’s production quality is second-to-none and they just featured the best fighter in the world and even they couldn’t control his actions in embarrassing the organization in a critical event for them.
Why is it that you fail to discern the difference between..
verbal and physical ??
And that Brock only said something about a company sponsor and jumping his wife.. I don’t see how that relates to a core group of guys known for losing their cool and jumping someone “post fight” ??
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
You're taking liberties
No one jumped anyone in the Noons example you use and it was orchestrated by the promotion, at least the back and forth banter.
You’re also completely leaving out that Miller was also an aggressor before it got ugly.
That was exaclty what he is saying though. CBS chose to go with an unfinished product because it was cheaper. This is the result.
He is acknowledging the difference and calling CBS out for it.
CBS chose Elite XC and Strikeforce bnecause they cost less. He is basically saying they took the cheap way out and shouldn’t be surprised by what they got.
If you buya DVD player made by Panablonic instead of Panasonic don’t be surprised if /when it craps out on you.
Came here to say that. Cable TV is something else altogether.
by HappyLittleTreez on Apr 19, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He plasters the UFC logo everywhere, talks endlessly about their fighting to make it into the UFC, and uses the whole season to promote a card at the end of the year all while showing fighters get drunk, piss in food, attack their housemates, with the occasional threat by Dana to toss them (if the they don’t keep getting ratings)
by John Nash on Apr 19, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And Yet Strikeforce STILL pales in comparison to the UFC.
So what’s your point?
Luke: Are you gonna make an update about me throwing cold watter on Jonathan Snowden's comment?
by truck on Apr 19, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
UPDATE 2:
Truck throws a little cold water on Jonathan Snowden for throwing a little cold water on White’s accusations:
I think reality TV is held to a different standard than professional sports being broadcasted live on national television.
UPDATE 3:
Does anyone really give ableepabout comparing what happened in UFC 45 and what happened in that Strikefarce Fiasco?
Apples and Oranges, people.
No. I think your point is terrible.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Apr 19, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
So you're saying he has to be held to high standard any time he's on TV? Reality show or not?
I don’t disagree, just trying to figure out what you think about it.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
by SSreporters on Apr 19, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good luck with that.
I'm a lover not a fighter
by spectaa on Apr 19, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
He is saying...
That his point is terrible….just because. ;)
The fact is without the MMA fanbase that TUF has created, there wouldn’t be enough audience to warrant Strikeforce on CBS. Low class or not, TUF is their maker.
I don’t know how you can argue a reality show on Spike is not different than a Sports broadcast on national television. That mess on CBS may have been the most embarassing thing to happen on CBS in years, meanwhile someone spewing liquid kids on Sushi during a TUF broadcast may be the classiest thing on Spike all week.
As Doc Martin 28 says… Apples to oranges…
Griffin/Bonnar saved the UFC. Actual fighting was the difference, not the whole piss in your food antics.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
Peopel watched that fight because they became fans of the personalities...
Love them or hate them it was the personalities of the fighters that drew the audience. Unfortunately, the desire to piss in food is part of some people’s personality, but it’s like and some people find that funny.
Jackass has quite the following ya know…
No, they didn't.
The viewership grew each round because it was a spectacular fight on basic cable. If it was just personality, then Diego vs. Kenny would have had the same ratings.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
People had to be watching the show in order to call their friends and tell them to tune over...
There wasn’t a maic fight fairy that alerted the masses. People that watched the show had favourite fighters and had a rooting interest. They also maintained this beyond the end of the show.
Sure a great fight helped, but people also became fans because of the show. It wasn’t soley based on the one night of fights.
You're admitting you're wrong.
A handful of people watched the fight because of personalities, and a handful watched because hey, free UFC event. Most watched because that core group said “Holy shit, look at what’s going on!” Personalities were a minor draw. That particular spectacle was the major draw.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Even if people switched over because of the ‘core’ group, that core was watching for a reason. Sanchez, griffin, Leebl and Bonnar all had personalities that people were drawn to and they all had different fans accordingly.
The show wouldn’t produce stars the way it does if it wasn’t for the personalities. That is fact plain and simple amigo.
Why would Trucks point be terrible ??
I think it’s valid in every sense of the word..
Reality TV is all about “RATINGS”.. Regardless what many believe, reality TV is FAR from reality.. It’s a scripted venture using unknown people in place of celebrity actors to obtain the same goal..
Trucks point stands as valid as Jonathan’s.. They’re both valid and subject to equal weight on their own merit. Both of their replies are subjective at best, which leaves room for debate and/or conjecture to find an end conclusion..
I think you could have made a better reply and better choice of words to reply with something tactful and acknowledge “why” you “think” his point was terrible rather than dismiss it altogether because he’s not a “respected writer and author” such as the other party..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on Apr 19, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 15 recs
I disagree Mr. Luke
and the sheer number of rec’s should also indicate that Truck has a good point. UFC events themselves during the past 5 years have been well-oiled machines for the most part. They run on time, pack in prelims, have adequate lead-ins and promotion, and generally come off as a polished product.
In Strikeforce, we’ve had every event run over time, rendering DVR recording useless, mediocre production values, and a nasty brawl on national television in front of a still skeptical older demographic of viewers that now have even more reason to dislike the sport we all obviously care about.
Dana’s antics on TUF are annoying and childish at times, and the TUF show at times promotes the idiotic stereotypes of fighters from time to time ,but they as a general rule don’t negatively affect the UFC product itself in terms of the shows they put on.
Strikeforce really blew it with this show. For once, I agree with Dana. This coming from a Strikeforce fan that is still rooting for the them to succeed.
Grammatical diversity
fail with the 4 “times” in the the 2nd to last paragraph. My former professors would be displeased.
“different instances”
“on occasion(s)”
“temporally”
"I love it when a guy is bleeding on top of me." -- Diego Sanchez, post fight interview about his fight with Clay Guida
You’re making a separate argument here. Yes, the UFC is wildly successful. As Luke mentioned earlier today, they are a well oiled machine that presents a terrific product. I love the UFC. That doesn’t mean that they don’t focus an awful lot of attention of juvenile behavior and hijinks during their TUF broadcasts.
The problems with the Strikeforce show are much larger than an unfortunate brawl at the end of the show. I have it on good authority that the event was in real danger of being canceled long before the scuffle.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 19, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
1) Considering the lead in to TUF is “One Million Ways to Die”, where the deaths of scantily clad women are showcased, for reasons such as self pleasuring with a carrot…
2) TUF is a reality show broadcasted on a young men’s network.
3) …and the show right after is silmualted battles between ninja’s and gladiators.
Any level of civility is a bonus…
The actual UFC events are a completely different ball game and are held to an all together different standard of professionalism. The events are pretty much top notch from top to bottom.
I don’t see how its placement around incredibly lowbrow programming excuses it. TUF is a promotional tool for the UFC produced by the UFC, owned by the UFC, using UFC fighters as coaches, run in the UFC Gym, featuring the UFC’s president. Of course it is not the only product the UFC produces. The UFC also produces (in association with other people) fight events, t-shirts with skulls on them, and trading cards. To say it isn’t the UFC is true. But it isn’t not a part of the UFC, and one of its most visible and important.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand your position that Dana basically has no right to cast stones. I also agree that TUF tends to focus on juvenile behavior. TUF has perpetuated the stereotype of mma fighters as ruffians alcoholics on more than one occassion, so for Dana White to lambast Strikeforce’s event seems hypocritical at best. It seems as though people want to simply point out that those hijinx are in the context of a reality show, which most of us believe should be judged by a different standard than a live network broadcast of actual fights. So for the sake of this argument, I’ll concede that Dana was being a hypocrite. Even so, his points, for once, were right on, hypocrite or not.
There has already been too much time wasted on arguing the nuance of hypocrisy in this case. I enjoy it whenever you poke your head into the comments sections and leave your 2 cents. They always tend to be insightful.
I don’t judge ideas by recs. Neither should you. You should be glad I don’t.
You can call me all sorts of names and think horrible things about me, but if you don’t even see me respond to a point made in the comments it’s because I think it’s patently ridiculous. I’m not even going to bother debating it. I tried doing that early in the site’s history, but trying to convince people about the obvious is a fool’s errand.
And that some of you high five other people’s sophistry doesn’t help you case. Truck’s point is not good and if you agree with it, I’m not sure what to tell.
Disagree? Write a FanPost. As for my views, they stay. I debate stuff that’s worth the exercise. Trying to convince folks in this space of the hypocrisy of White’s position – even though he’s completely right about Strikeforce – can be left to those with the time to engage the issue. Not a top priority for me.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Apr 19, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Allow me to rephrase: the sheer number of rec’s indicate that Truck, whom I tend to disagree with for the most part, has hit a nerve that has caused a large number of your readers to rec his response to Mr. Snowden. To judge an idea based on it’s popularity alone is a terrible idea. However, the bloodyelblow community tends to be an informed group of mma fans (for the most part) and we gravitate to this site because the articles and commentary are often insightful and nuanced. That being the case, when a simple response to a respected author receives so much attention and follow-up from others, to disregard it as “ridiculous” seems a bit odd. To each their own I guess.
Note that I never once in my comment called either you or Snowden names or implied that I think horrible things about you, but rather disagreed with the idea that Dana White is being all that hypocritical. I simply agree that comparing Dana and the UFC’s presentation of TUF with the disaster of a Strikeforce show is, as many commenters have pointed out, comparing apples to oranges.
by Rudinho479 on Apr 19, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 13 recs
Rudinho479 pretty much sums it up..
I just don’t see how you can dismiss an opposing view in the manner you did and offer no interjection of your own thoughts on the matter to represent your position as to why you feel that way about an opposing view..
As pointed out.. They’re apples to oranges in retrospect..
Regardless of hypocrisy from either side.. The statements made by all are valid and dismissal only illustrates bias. I guess we expect better because you’re the writers and authors, so you’re the professionals in this sense..
But that doesn’t diminish one opinion from the other on a subjective topic either..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I think this is especially true given that Dana never actually called the product low class.
His comments were related to production values and organization.
Dana White’s comment were specifically about what happens at his events, and about how Strikeforce event were “bush leauge” and “amature”.
He implicitly stated:
When have you seen anything remotely close to that happen at a UFC event?
In the quote above, he never once called down Strikeforce for being low class, he was talking about the quality of their event and the ability to run a show properly (on time / commentary / without brawls).
Given that fact, it is infact Jonathon Snowden’s comment that was completly of base. His point argues a point that Dana hadn’t made.
Say what you want about:
trying to convince people about the obvious is a fool’s errand
Snowden took an unrelated shot at Dana and you backed it without being willing to discuss anything in that direction.
by truck on Apr 19, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The UFC has tons of examples of terrible commentary. Tons. Who is anyone kidding? They have a second rate hockey announcer and a standup comedian as their A-team.
As for a lack of brawls/pushing matches/post fight antics, how quickly UFC 100 and the demands for apologies from Brock Lesnar by Dana White have been forgotten.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
What someone says and does are two totally different things..
And to sum up those types of replies, Dana stepping in instantly and correcting the issues shows which is the superior and to which is the inferior..
Do you not think that Coker not doing anything at all is part of the problem in the least bit ??
Say what you want about Dana and the UFC, but they handle their business, and business in the professional world is cut throat..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
What precisely is Coker going to do to “correct the issues”?
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
How about some discipline of the involved party..
Which includes 2 (possibly) 3 SF champions..
If you want to blame one, then you need to blame all.. The Diaz bros. (Nick in particular) have a history of violence surrounding these types of topics..
Yet all we get is Coker making the claim that Mayhem should have “known better” and he will have to look at the tapes on Tues.. etc.. lol
Yet Anderson Silva came to a fight and goofed around and all hell broke loose and Dana had the situation locked down and reviewed before they left the damn arena.. Yet we’re getting invalid comparison’s of different scenarios based on name associations.
I agree Dana and hyposcrisy can often go hand-in-hand and for that alone, it was a good attempt at making a valid point. The poor part resides in the analogy of comparison and word choice..
Not discrediting the actual point that was “attempted to be conveyed”..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
What about the Silva situation is “locked down”? That Dana said bad things about him?
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Did it escalate post fight ??
Your point is moot here..
I used the exhibit as an example of how Dana handles his business even when things aren’t even remotely as bad as the ones in reference of discussion..
You’re trying to manipulate the point conveyed as something it wasn’t intended to be.. The point is Dana didn’t hesitate to step in and make hard decisions, even when it involved a company champion and arguably one of the best in the business today.. The point still stands as intended..
We’re still waiting to “hear” from Coker…
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I don’t see Dana going on TV a couple days later and threatening Silva with release if he doesn’t start knocking guys out as putting the flames out, no.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Bottom line..
He forced the issue when it went against company policy.. Something SF claims, but has yet to recognize, and implement any sort of action either way..
We still havent heard from Coker in any regard other than they he states “I haven’t seen the tapes” ??
WTF ?? This is your company on the line here. Your contract with CBS, your money, your product.. etc.. And while at the event, live you didn’t see the tapes ?? lol
Do you not for one ounce of integrity believe that if it went down in the UFC that Dana would have been reviewing the tapes right then and there and called some sort of action to it ??
I guess you fail to realize the importance of leadership and management and how it directly relates to company success at all times..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
He forced the issue by blowing up in the media. That was the extent of it. Until Anderson gets in the ring again, who’s to say it was effective?
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The effectiveness is not the point..
It’s his ability to step up a lead even in the face of adversity..
To say and do the things needed, even if it goes against popular belief..
The only comparison anyone can make is that they both run an MMA promotion..
That’s it.. the rest is clear cut black and white between the two and that my good friend, is where in lies the differences with success for each promotion and their business practices..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
You can’t reasonably say he is stepping up in the face of adversity and doing the things needed if they’re ineffective.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Like you said..
How do we know they’re effective or not ?? There hasn’t been an opportunity to illustrate effectiveness yet..
But the fact remains, he stepped up and said “something” rather than doing “nothing”…
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
We don’t. Which means there’s no conclusion. And yet, its a prime example of what he’s doing right that Coker isn’t. Should Coker go on someone’s radio show and say that everyone is suspended or something or that he doesn’t want a scumbag like Shields to fight for him again? Would anyone actually buy that?
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
No..
He should punish “all” parties involve for giving his company a black eye in it’s spot light..
Then move on.. People will get over this.. It’s not like we haven’t seen this before..
The point I’m illustrating is the one that many are looking for. They just want to know how “professional” this supposed sport really is.. The punishment must fit the crime..
This happens in other sports all the same… the difference is that in other sports the players or athletes are held totally accountable for their actions.. KG was in a fight on Sat. in the Celts vs. Heat game.. He’s already been suspended and loss of pay..
I bet you can’t say the same for Coker’s fighters..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Umm...
I don’t see Dana going on TV a couple days later and threatening Silva with release if he doesn’t start knocking guys out as putting the flames out, no.
Has Scott Coker done that? Curious….
And by the way, why SHOULD HE go on TV in front of everyone watching when he could simply handle this business in-house like he did when he “spoke” to AS in his office-trailer(remember the post-fight interview…)?
You can just invalidate any examples to the contrary at will. How can anyone compete with it then?
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This is one of the absolute worst comments I've read about UFC announcing...
Joe Rogan is fairly uniquely qualified as a skilled color analyst. He has a background in not only acting, but the timing of a comedian which is an asset as a color guy.
Oh, and he was a Tae Kwon Do Grand Champion, and holds a Brown Belt in BJJ.
But yeah, what a joke, a comdedian as an announcer.
Hate on Goldy as a corporate shill with little MMA knowledge all you want, but Rogan is one of the best MMA announcers in the game today, and perhaps ever.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
Rogan is among the best in a field of who? 5 guys?
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
There have been a lot of people that have announced MMA...
I suggest you go back and read one of the posts about the subject, specially the ones hating on Goldy as most have announcer dream teams filled with nothing but people talking about which they like, which they don’t.
That’s okay though, I didn’t expect you to admit you were wrong. Your hyperbole and all inclusive bashing already broke me of that thought process.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
There’s been a handful of guys who’ve broadcasted fights, and being even in the top 20-25% of those guys doesn’t mean much. Wow, he’s better than Jim Brown! How difficult.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Please, continue to alter your argument into one that makes actual sense.
Comparing the Strikeforce announce team to the UFC announce team is like comparing a Porsche to a Yugo, and to act like there is any real room for comparison other than that they both obstensibly announce MMA is high comedy.
You’d be hard pressed to find two better color guys than Rutten and Rogan, with Couture being the closest thing to either one of them. In the fact that you fail to understand good color when you hear it makes your basic thought of “well it wasn’t that much worse than UFC” unacceptable.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
I’m not comparing anything. They’re both lousy to varying degrees. The biggest difference is familiarity. Everyone is used to Goldberg sucking and Rogan’s analysis being X is explosive and Y is world class at something or other.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Rogan's analysis is more than just saying black guys are explosive
He explains submission attempts, grappling techniques, punching styles, and doesn’t dumb down his analysis for the casual fan. I appreciate that.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
I think the most important part of Rogan's style is...
He does everything you mentioned, while still generally showing excitement about the fights.
I think that’s the key to being a good color analyst, good knowledge + excitement.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
by Jacob Hayes on Apr 19, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Goldy sucks real bad
and Rogan is only decent. The UFC needs to get Michael Schiavello to comment with Rogan, that would be amazing. Goldberg blows.
by Johnnynumber5 on Apr 19, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t judge ideas by recs. Neither should you.
In this case you didn’t judge by relevance either…
Snowden took a low blow whith a comment related to TUF when Dana White was talking about event broadcasts. You backed that, but wouldn’t look at anything to the contrary.
If Snowden had made a comment about UFC events being over time of having a brawl in the ring at a previous event or even at a hospital it would have been relevant, but Snowden’s comments were an unrelated low blow.
Snowden took a low blow?
Seriously? I think he made a valid point and you are the one who is trying to extrapolate more meaning from the words of Dana White with the sole purpose of putting him above reproach. Stop being such a shill.
by Johnnynumber5 on Apr 19, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He did make a valid point.. But so did Truck.. There in lies the problem for some I suppose..
His point was good, valid and accurate. His analogy/comparison of said point was less than pin point on this one.. No biggie..
But you can’t dismiss Trucks point of view altogether because you don’t agree for what ever reason. It doesn’t diminish the fact that both were valid and if you want to include one side of the issue’s point of view in your piece, then you’re also inviting the other side into the debate too; since both are subjective at best.. You can’t logically dismiss one or the other for the reason of “just because”.. It was a completely bias piece in that regard and many have seen through as easily as I have..
We’re not a bunch of idiots with zero education (although some posts can misread in that regard).. There are many of us here that are professionals in our respective fields that enjoy the sport just as much as the ones who’s views we sometimes disagree with.. We can agree to disagree on a wide array of topics of discussion without it being a personal dislike or personal discontent toward each other.. Sadly, some (such as yourself) fail to realize this and resort to personal attacks instead of being objective to different views and weighing all options before making conclusions..
Call me a critical thinker.. I like to identify everything at play before I put my own thoughts into it and make my own conclusions.. I don’t rely on others to make up my own mind for me..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
yep and also...
snowden doesn’t realize that the UFC and Spike control what airs on TUF. The foolishness that goes on that show is what they want us to see. CBS looked like idiots because Strikeforce made them look like they couldn’t control what they were showing. That was live television, they have affiliates and sponsors that react to things totally different than a cable show (FCC doesn’t even regulate cable). It was embarrassing for CBS because it WASN’T what they meant to broadcast so they looked like fools. Again this wasn’t “MMA on CBS” like “NFL/NBA/MLB on CBS” it was “CBS Saturday Night Fights”. CBS put their stamp on it as if it were their product.
This is true. The UFC’s decision to purposely air urination pranks, double deckers, and drunken brawls in association with their product (promotion, really) raises them from lowbrow entertainment for meatheads to high art.
Or not, and that’s insane gibberish.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Why should we care what Snowden thinks?
That’s an odd bit to add to the end of your article. Who is Snowden?
This is as good a time as any...
For a gratuitous plug. Just for informational purposes, no one is actually encouraged to buy this thing.*
*Please buy this thing.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 19, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll give an endorsement as well.
Great book. A lot of history I didn’t know about.
Support me in my campaign for Absolute Banning Power for Bloody Elbow
by Matthew Roth on Apr 19, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Shameless ; )
Let me plug it for you. It’s a great book.
Let me ask you Jonathan, how much control do you think White really has with what is broadcast on TUF? As someone who has experience with television editors, I know that they are “strongly encouraged” to include the most sensational footage. Is this Zuffa’s dictate or Spike’s? I’d be curious to find out who’s controlling the final product?
It’s been described to me as a three-headed monster. Pilgrim, Zuffa, and Spike are essentially equal partners. Most of the conflict between the parties actually happens before the show ever hits the airs. There are fairly heated arguments about which fighters to include on the show every season. I can’t say for sure who would win in a battle of wills regarding what you end up seeing on TUF. I suspect by this point there is a shared vision of what the show is supposed to look and feel like.
I hate that people have read into a one line comment that I don’t understand or respect what TUF has accomplished for the UFC. I do. I understand that it has been essential to creating stars from a cast of mainstays and recognizable prospects from the guys in the house. It is a tremendous concept.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 19, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No
It was merely your rhetorical statement trying to apply the hypocrisy of Dana Whites comments towards SF’s showing on CBS..
While it was a valid point, the comparison between TUF and the live event held on CBS aren’t even remotely close to the same in comparison on any field of play or in any regard..
While your statement point was valid, your word choice and analogy were poor and nothing more than a fallacy.
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
It’s not a fallacy at all. In fact, Zuffa knowingly and willingly presents a crass product. Dana intentionally presents fighters as drunks, mental midgets, and people unable to control their emotions and tempers. Are you suggesting that the divide between network and cable television is so wide that the two are essentially different mediums? Because it’s not 1985.
All Strikeforce did was present a bad show that culminated in a brawl. They will learn from this going forward and control better who belongs in the cage after a fight. Of course, in many places that is supposed to be the purview of the athletic commission.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 19, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no arguement over TUF..
The argument is in comparing TUF to what happened on CBS.. I’m sorry if you fail to recognize the rhetorical devices that you set in play with your statement…
It was a poor analogy and comparison.. No disrespect meant by my observation.. :)
I agree with the initial point you were attempting to draw on in that Dana can often be hypocritical with his word choices.. But that would have been a better statement than trying to use TUF as a reference generator of hypocrisy about his statements towards the SF fiasco..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
The brawl on CBS and the behavior on TUF both cast MMA fighters in a bad light. Only one is done intentionally. If anything, I was too kind to Dana.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 19, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yet TUF has been an excellent tool to build a fan base for MMA,
Meanwhile the brawl at Strikeforce jaded a large number. Regarless, I think you are comparing apples to oranges.
They are both high profile MMA shows. Unfortunately for Strikeforce, they reach a similar number of viewers too….
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 19, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Still… One builds fans, the other potenially jaded a large audience. Regadless, this wan’t my arguement to begin with. You chose to use TUF to take a shot at Dana, when he was commenting on the actual events themselves and didn’t infact call anyone low class.
He said they look bush league. This is in stark contrast to the appearance he gives future UFC stars on their reality TV promotional vehicle…or not.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
He called the event bush league for the;
Lack of security.
Having an inferior product on national TV .
Gus Johnson comments.
He specifically stated those as his points.
He didn’t even call the brawl or the fighters classless, he just said it wouldn’t happen on his events. This is especially if his event was on national television.
If one wants to point out all the bush league things the UFC does in comparison to more legitimized sports and comparable to this, you’d have a long list.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 19, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Please enlighten me...
Anyone fighting each other outside of a sanctioned match on TUF has been booted from the show.
How is it again that the situations compare? I’m pretty sure Nick Diaz is still with SF.
Crass behavior and assault are orders of magnitude different.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
Really? I’m pretty sure I saw Junie Browning at the TUF finale.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 19, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Where is Junie Browning now?
Last I checked he’s wandering between barns, taking fights on the undercard of rodeos.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
I guess we can agree to disagree on this issue.. :)
I’m a pretty intelligent individual.. I like to think I’m capable of discerning fact from fiction..
Again, I agree with the point you attempted to make, but that’s not exactly what was stated in your initial reply.
The only correlation between the two is your subjective view on the shows ability to cast it’s members.. Again, it’s merely subjective at this point. For one because I take what I see on a reality show with a grain of salt if you will.. Therefore, because I’m a fan, the same as you and I have a different view overall, it makes the topic of discussion subjective.
I separate fact from fiction once the show warps and we’re invited into their “normal” lives.. What happens from there on out is what’s judged as reality.. not what’s portrayed on a scripted venue for entertainment value purposes..
I like to think that there are many adults that have the same ability to separate what they see on “reality TV” as being reality altogether..
But if you want to argue that as your position then lets include additional factors into the discussion.. How about the fact that you take 16 fighters, strip them of their possessions and ability to communicate within the normal parameters of their everyday lives and then force them to live with and compete against each other until there is only one.. It’s a recipe for ratings and disaster.. It’s the premise of the show’s inauguration and built on that foundation alone.. It’s scripted in the way to entice viewership on the “what are they going to do next” principle..
There is simply no relation in context to what transpired on CBS in that regard..
Does Kenny Florian do the same shit he did on his season; now ?? Does Ryan Bader ? How about Kimbo ?? You don’t hear of these guys jumping a guy for shouting for a rematch.. Not even under the shows watch..
So again.. poor analogy and comparison..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I'm saying they are completely different products and completely different arguements.
Dana’s rant center’s around the lack of organization at the actual event. He didn’t call anyone low class, he said their product is amature and bush league. Comment related to TUF have no bearing on the quality of either companies actual events.
Your comment was an unrelated low blow…
stop making excuses for dana white
and defending him. he isn’t above reproach. he talked shit about SF and people are pointing out the hypocrisy in his statements. It’s not a low blow attack, the low blow attack is what White himself said.
by Johnnynumber5 on Apr 19, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
No disrespect meant by this reply but..
So what that he’s a writer and author.. That automatically makes him respected by all ??
You may respect him, but that doesn’t equate to everyone having to respect him or his opinion.. We can respect his work without respecting him as a person or what his opinions are too.. They’re not one in the same..
I think you just showed true bias as journalist in your reply.. Which makes many take your tone less at face value.. I can’t respect anything someone says because they respect one side of the argument and fail to reckognize the other, which was quite valid all the same..
Poor choice of words, IMO
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on Apr 19, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
sort of respected
do you really think it’s a proven ‘fact’ that chuck liddell pokes his fingers in the eyes of his opponents on purpose? Have you ever read snowden’s rant on this? Snowden has some decent stuff out there but he is also fairly suspect. He had a number of pretty bad articles on MMA Payout.
All good ..
But what does anything he’s written previous have to do with this subject ?? His statement was merely a one sided factor in the view.. Luke made the error by adding his side of the argument and dismissing Truck’s altogether and than made a blanket statement that his view is respected because he is a writer and author.. I don’t see what his credentials previous have to do with a complete opinion on a subject while dismissing someone elses opinion with equal value and validity in it ??
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on Apr 19, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your probem is with the journalistic integrity… AKA choosing what side of an argument or what evidence to publish for personal or whatever reasons as opposed to upholding journalistic integrity and offing both side of an arguement in unbiased fashion. Correct?
Yup.. :)
I just think it was a poor choice of words for him to reply to you in that manner without giving anything to back up his statement..
It leaves it open to subjection and broadcasts complete bias and unfairness on his behalf.. If anything he should have chose to leave it in the comments and leave his piece as was.. Because now he has invited both sides of the issue to make cases and will illustrate bias without adhering to both sides of the issue equally before concluding..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I don't care about personal feelings.. Your reply was valid and substantive
For that alone it’s worth defending, regardless of anyone’s personal feelings.. :)
But if I’m being honest here.. I agree with your reply.. Because I know the impact of true reality TV and the differences between a pre-scripted venture on cable TV and a live sporting broadcast and how they aren’t even remotely the same on any field of play…
You expect certain things with each one..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
For what it's worth, it didn't hurt my feelings either...
I just wrote him off as being a bit of a baby…
here's the deal
the two of you are basically ufc zealots who will always defend the company position. You got mad when someone pointed out hypocrisy in white’s comments. stop acting all butt hurt about it and trying to trash their integrity.
bottom line is the word of two known shills means very little.
by Johnnynumber5 on Apr 19, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Bottom line..
How do you know I got mad ?? lol
I pointed out an obvious rhetorical statement, then identified a completely valid reply to said rhetorical statement and defended the position as such.. At what point did I confuse you with anger in any of my replies ??
I also demonstrated equal position of “both sides” as such. I just happen to defend the side you’re against for what ever reason.. Say all you want, but you’re the one making accusations here, not me..
Just like you tried to implement your own rhetorical devices to slant your view against mine.. Again, poor choice of words IMO..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
I wasn't mad either and I am not a UFc zealot.
I take stance against Zuffa all the time. I am flexible enough to weight out a situation based on the value of that situation alone.
That's apples and oranges
When you’ve got 16 fighters in a house with nothing but each other for weeks at a time, you’re going to have things boiling over. In the cage, it’s business. UFC is serious about it’s presentation.
TUF is no worse in that regard than The Real World, or any other reality show that has had fights. The difference is, at least on TUF they were there to fight.
by Doc Martin 28 on Apr 19, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Or masturbate in the shower.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
Agreed to a large extent, but...
They aren’t full UFC fighters, so it’s easy to distance the brand from them, especially when they’re willing to kick people off the show. When they had the fight at the house in TUF 5, Dana booted the fighters and the ones who encouraged it. It’s easy to pass off the drinking, etc, as “typical reality-TV behavior”. The part exclusive to the UFC’s brand (the fights) is strictly controlled. When Junie jumped the cage, he was suppressed immediately (though I still say he should have been ejected, too).
Deadliest Warrior Returns April 20!!!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 19, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The constant assault on doors and inanimate objects does plenty to brand fighters as inarticulate and uncontrollably violent. And, of course, this makes it clear that when something does unfortunately happen at a UFC event, White will accept all blame…..
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 19, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree it isn’t great when the show focuses on the antics; my point is that because it’s within the narrative of a reality show and not an actual event, it’s easier for Dana & Co. to dismiss. They’re not actual UFC fighters, just competing to be, thus Dana can distance them from his brand much more easily. I wish they would use a heavier hand, but that’s not what the unwashed masses want…
Deadliest Warrior Returns April 20!!!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 19, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly, stupid and childish pranks are the same as three guys jumping someone and kicking and punching them.
When you tune into TUF, you know EXACTLY what you’re getting. Turn to Spike for the last 15 minutes, watch the fight, call it a night.
When you tune into CBS Fights, you don’t expect the main event to be overshadowed by a stupid brawl during the post fight interview, when the whole situation should have been controlled by SF/CBS.
I think everyone is really missing the point
It’s not that TUF and a fight on CBS is actually comparable, it’s that if Dana is going to throw stones he shouldn’t be living in a glass house. It’s hard for Dana to talk about how “classless” something makes the sport look when he is out dropping countless f-bombs, threatening and mocking fighters and reporters, and airing a reality show that is an endless parade of drinking, childish pranks, and juvenile behavior. Is he really the guy to say that someone else makes the sport look bad to the wider audience?
by John Nash on Apr 19, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
This is a very cogent point. Mind you, I’m not judging either TUF or the Strikeforce brawl. I can certainly see how they might be compelling television for some. But they are peas in a pod, as far as influencing how people think about the fighters that populate this sport.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 19, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Aside from the silly antics of some, people get a great view of other fighters.
Sense of humour, family life, ability to cook, even temperments, people get to see it all.
TUF makes stars because people can relate to some of the fighters. The assholes don’t come out of the show fan favorites, but Forrest Griffin did. People respect Amir and people like Big Baby, because they showed they were more than thugs.
Fans respect fighter work habits and can learn there is more to a fighter than simply an angry pile of meat. Sure some are stupid and immature, but the vast majority aren’t and the TV show has done a lot to show the many sides of a fighter.
dana makes loads of mistakes but he has carte blanche on this one...
because the brawl looked like CBS/Strikeforce’s product was spiraling out of their control. That’s what Dana’s rant was about, that on the highest stage Strikeforce made CBS look like promoting MMA was a mistake. UFC and Spike controls TUF, if they wanted to they wouldn’t have shown any of the brawls and drunken foolishness. We implicitly understand we are watching some controlled entertainment. Nothing is going to make us perceive that something happens on TUF that the UFC doesn’t want to show us. The perception, the worst possible kind as well, of the brawl was that MMA was an uncontrollable product, full of thugs and gangster wannabes promoting violence for the sake of violence. That no even CBS can control MMA that it is perhaps not a viable business worth investing into. That’s what Dana’s rant is about.
by DanielH on Apr 19, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can't find where he called anyone or anything classless.
I just see him saying that wouldn’t happen at a UFC even because the UFC isn’t amature or bush league. He is saying his events are a more polished product than those of Stirikeforce and won’t / don’t have problems like this.
i think a number of other people have issed that point.
I don’t completely agree with this. TUF also shows these guys at their most vulnerable. A lot of the “reprehensible” stuff comes off more like a bunch of jacked up guys blowing off steam to alleviate boredom in the house. Some of the stuff they do is gross, yes, but it’s mostly harmless.
When there was an all out brawl in the house, Dana ejected the offenders.
Get rid of the ramp!
White doesn't control what's shown on TV.. Spike does..
White is an executive producer.. not the “sole producer”.. He doesn’t get “final say”.. The producers of the show (which are employed by Spike TV, not the UFC) have control over what is shown and what isn’t..
And reality TV is completely held to a different standard than an organized professional sporting event held live on basic cable..
Truck’s point stands as valid and open..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on Apr 19, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It is also harder to control what happens on a live television event. If anything, you are making the point that White and the UFC are more culpable because they are intentionally presenting a crass product that makes fighters look like neanderthals.
by Jonathan Snowden on Apr 19, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Still your argument is counterable
Reality TV is all about "RATINGS".. Regardless what many believe, reality TV is FAR from reality.. It’s a scripted venture using unknown people in place of celebrity actors to obtain the same goal..
Producers write and direct what happens on TV.. They just don’t throw a bunch of unknown people in a room on camera and let them freestyle everything from start to finish.. They’re guided and probed into what they do and the control over what’s shown rest’s in the network station.. not the producer or parent company of the product.. Spike has the end say so.. If they don’t want that message sent out on their TV station.. They can pull the plug on the show or force an edit before it will ever air..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Actually, if memory serves me right, the show was created and produced by Zuffa and Pilgrim Entainment. Spike has little control over the product outside of distributing it.
Spike pays for the product..
They control what’s viewed as the end result..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
White doesn’t control what’s shown on TV.. Spike does..
White is an executive producer.. not the "sole producer".. He doesn’t get "final say".. The producers of the show (which are employed by Spike TV, not the UFC) have control over what is shown and what isn’t..
Your argument is that Dana White doesn’t control what shown on TUF, but actually he has greater control over the content than Spike. White and Zuffa are the producers of the show and oversee the actually casting, filming, and (most importantly editing) of the show. Spike’s influence would be minor in comparison.
Again..
I’m not dismissing White’s involvement in the show..
I’m saying he’s not the “sole producer” and not the final controlling party to declare what Spike broadcasts..
White’s team produces the show (which is Zuffa, Lorenzo, Dana, etc..)
Spike’s team produces the final content (edit’s, arrangement, etc..)
Spike has control over viewership content. It’s their product by purchase.. If they didn’t want to show some guy pissing on some other guys food, it would not matter what Dana wanted.. Spike paid for a priduct and has the end say so as to what’s going to be broadcast on their network.. Zuffa isn’t the ones liable by penalty for inappropriate content being broadcast.. Spike is..
While you’re idea is great in theory, Dana is not the head control of TUF’s viewing content..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
You’re correct, but my point is that Dana has more control over the actual content of the show. If Dana is so worried about the image of the mma and the UFC, it is more likely him and not Spike that has first edit rights. He can decide what, if any, pranks are in the show, if fighters will be shown drunk, or fighting in the house. After a viewing copy has been sent to Spike they will have a chance to make their changes, but Dana could have already exorcised any potentially embarrassing clips.
True..
But again we’re trying to compare a scripted reality show to a live sporting broadcast..
They’re not even remotely close to one in the same and therefore, can’t be held to the same principles in either case..
Now if you want to make an equal comparison, then subject live events on Spike TV to those of SF on CBS.. That’s the only logical correlation between the two..
Just because it has Dana and the letters UFC attached doesn’t make equally comparable as a whole, just be sheer association..
That’s a fallacy in the worst way and Truck called him on it.. Respect of professional positions has zero to do with either sides statement. One made a rhetorical statement and the other replied with a valid and substantive reply of his own..
The bottom line is it was a bad analogy to compare with, regardless if it has any merit or not of hypocrisy.
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
So who on TUF that fought in the house is in the UFC or even made through the season. Junie was the only one that pushed the envelope and the only reason he stayed is because Dana wanted him to get eliminated so he couldn’t keep talking smack about how he would have won if they didn’t kick him out.
Sure there are a lot of pranks which are completely different then brawling. Yes some people got to compete in the UFC that had very minor scuffles but any real fighting or misconduct was punished with the perpetrator being sent home, never to be heard from again.
by YoungGun on Apr 19, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reprehensible?
what happens on TUF that is so reprehensible? Some guy pissing in his own food? disgusting, yes, reprehensible, far from it. Any time the TUF cast acts up, Daddy Dana comes in and gives them the f’n fighter speech. Anytime something big happens, asses leave the house, I’m not sure where you get the idea that it’s any worse then what happened in the cage on Saturday.
Aside from agreeing with what truck said about this comment…
They might let a lot of stupid stuff go on in TUF, but Dana did take huge issue and kick people off the show when an all out fight happened.
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"expect us to take you seriously or think you’re even remotely intelligent?" - Luke Thomas
enough already with the TUF comparisons
ones a reality show on spike freaking TV and the other is pro sport on a big 4 network
by blueballlefty on Apr 19, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
But, it didn’t, which is the entire point. The UFC has control over things, whereas Strikeforce did not.
If you think they would have been able to stop Rampage and Wandy from throwing punches if they really wanted to you’re insane. No one is going to have the balls to grab onto either one of those dudes if they start swinging.
Right.
Just would need Chute Box to do the Mexican hat dance on Tiki. Pretty much the same thing.
By the way, if someone makes a portal to that alternate reality, please DVR that shit for me.
THREE MUSKATEERS BAR P4P BEST HALLOWEEN CANDY
by BloodbathAndBeyond on Apr 19, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
This was staged, it was shit talk to promote a fight. I was there live. To even try and draw a comparison of what happened (A brawl) on CBS to this is just retarded.
by JimJoe on Apr 19, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
don't say that
don’t say that
don’t say that rashad
by LBo on Apr 19, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also the Diego/Kos weigh-in…
Deadliest Warrior Returns April 20!!!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 19, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I also can't type with any type of accuaracy....
by truck on Apr 19, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Hahahahaha. Rec'd.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
i'm willing to give gus a pass
he’s not very knowledgeable with the technical aspects, but i let it slide, because of his inexperience. if the other two guys were doing their job, he wouldn’t need to be pointing out those kinds of things to begin with.
shamrock comes off much much worse for me. completely biased and unprofessional. and of course he wilted the second they put him in front of shields after the fight.
Shamrock is what he is
He never pretended to be objective, that’s what the other two guys are there for. Shamrock “wilted” toward the end of the fight. Not just when he was face to face with Shields. He was proven wrong, and he admitted it honorably before he said it to Shields face.
Ranallo is the biggest piece of crap because that’s been his job for years and he still sucks nuts. Gus is just a sports guy that happens to be covering MMA, not an MMA guy covering MMA.
by Doc Martin 28 on Apr 19, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
When it comes to PRODUCT Dana has all the right in the world to talk....
Dana controls his people, his fighters and his promotion. He doesn’t make it look bad like Strikeforce did. The fight, Gus’ call, everything about that situation was mis-handled.
EXCEPT NATE DIAZ
Dana didn’t have anything to say about his thug Nate contributing to the gang fight, did he?
Did Dana mention anything about Nate proudly posting “Walk up on our camp like that?” and including a picture of it on his facebook page which basically bragging about his camp’s retaliation for ‘walking up on’em ike that".
Nate Diaz has a gang fight mentality but Dana only pointed at SF fighters.
WRONG… Dana has 0 room to talk.
jiMMAy
He did say...
something to the effect of:
Do you ever see any UFC fighters pulling that crap?
Answer: Yes we do.
jiMMAy
White said he believes the incident occurred because CBS didn’t align itself with the UFC. He said he had a tentative deal with CBS, but said that Showtime executives talked CBS into buying into the now-defunct Elite XC instead of agreeing to broadcast UFC fights.
While Dana is absolutely right on a lot of the things he said here, I call bullcrap on the part I quoted above. Dana has talked so much about so many network TV deals (none of which have amounted to anything) that I’m really doubtful as to whether he actually had a ‘tentative deal’ with CBS or is just airing his tonsils here. Also, the part about this happening because CBS made a deal with StrikeForce… a bit far-fetched donchathink? It’s quite certain nothing like this would have taken place on a UFC card, but trying to link that into the CBS/Strikeforce deal is quite a reach. Just sayin’
In the end, this piece of commenting from Dana is just about enough to give him a (yet another) big W in the contest against Strikeforce. Even if some of it is a bit too much ‘dana’.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Apr 19, 2010 1:22 PM EDT reply actions
Dana is still trying to get a network deal. If he can make it look like others are close to pulling the trigger he may be able to get some one to bite because they don’t want the competitor to get it.
The problem is that no network is going to hand production over to the UFC. First the risks of some thing blowing up on them at the FCC or with the organized outrage groups if they don’t have full control are to great. Second the networks have all been bringing their production in house. It would be like Honda out sourcing the making of cars.
I think this has some credibility. There was one moment where he said a TV deal was close sometime before CBS went with EliteXC. He may not have specifically said that his big news as the TV deal but there were other rumors being leaked that the TV deal was the big news. Sometime later when no big news came out he said he was close to a network deal and it fell through in the end.
Most important line of the article ....
Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker could not be reached for comment on Monday to react to White’s statements.
Good Grief.
One of the cardinal rules of PR is to get out in front of these fiascos and define the dialogue yourself rather than letting the press set the tone without your input. Scott appears to have retreated into his bunker and is just hoping to wait this one out rather than proactively getting out there and spreading his message.
He was busy having lunch with Jose Canseco.
by mmalogic on Apr 19, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
"One of the cardinal rules of PR is to get out in front of these fiascos and define the dialogue yourself rather than letting the press set the tone without your input"
Or maybe its a cliche line about PR that everyone just accepts as true because it has been said enough times lately.
If anything Gus should’ve made light of it.
“It looks like we’re getting more fighting for our money here at the end of Strikeforce”. They were so apologetic it made it seem worse than it was. Treat it like the WWE.
He actually should've said:
"It looks like we’re getting more fighting for our money here at the end of Strikeforce".
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
by SSreporters on Apr 19, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
What about all the innocent cardboard doors that get destroyed during TUF? Talk about bush league. It makes the fighters appear way tougher than reality, just like when Hulk Hogan can tear a t-shirt as long as it has a small cut in the collar.
"Hug it out Bitch"
by Earl Montclair on Apr 19, 2010 1:25 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A door is not a human. Also no one was holding the door down while someone else was kicking and punching it. Well I guess the hinges were holding it so it couldn’t run away.
The Crusher can rip this phone book in half!!!!!!
Just like I’m gonna mangle you Mad Dog Vachon, at the armory this Saturday night!!
Dana on CBS:
The result, White said, was that an inferior product was put on national television. "Of course, everyone thinks I’m anti-competition, but I’m not," White said. "But everyone knows that they didn’t belong on CBS. Even if you’re the biggest UFC hater out there, you know that. Shame on CBS for this. They knew they should have been with us, but they went out and let those Showtime idiots talk them into going with Elite XC.
"Now, they’re stuck with a bush league, C-level promotion that will probably be out of business next month," he added. "And what you saw on Saturday is the kind of thing that happens when you put a product like that on national television."
that is…not exactly true. but i’ll leave it at that
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MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 19, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana loves competition!
If he didn’t have a rival promotion to destroy he would get bored.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Apr 19, 2010 2:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
White said he is interested in signing Shields, who has two more months on his Strikeforce contract, but is not bound to the company beyond that despite holding its championship. He said Strikeforce "gambled on (the outcome) of fights" and put themselves in the position of having one of its champions bolt the promotion. White said it’s not the first time Strikeforce has done that.
Strikeforce inherited the EliteXC contract they didn’t write this one up. They had no choice but to give Jake his fights. It sucks for Strikeforce but it is what it is.
And then he was yelling at them to stop, telling them they are on national television.
And what is wrong with that? I think the ‘these things happen in MMA sometimes’ comment was disgusting, but what else can he say?
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
Dana was implying that it was inappropriate
for one of the commentators to be lecturing the fighters over the arena PA like a school principal, especially when they were pretty occupied with the brawl, and not with listening to Gus. It isn’t his job to break up the fight, nor scold them like the disappointed mother of a toddler.
Dana #3 looks like he just found out Jose Canseco signed with strikeforce
Renzo Gracie: I was doing this when BJ was on his fathers nutsack.
by SerraJitsu0876 on Apr 19, 2010 2:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Correction, that would be Dana #2.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Apr 19, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana head #3 is looking at the Loretta Hunt Calendar
by Jonnycaz2.0 on Apr 19, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It did happen at UFC 45, BUT...
has everyone forgotten the infamous Chute Boxe – Hammerhouse Melee at Pride 31 ?
Dana White chastising Strikeforce is like Tiger Woods scolding Jesse James.
I guess Dana forgot about the piss drinking, sperm sushi, Junie Brown TUF episodes.
I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP
not only has he not forgotten it...
he advertised it and reminded us to watch it. TUF 1 helped save MMA. In particular the hose episode. The brawl at the end of the SF Nashville card probably killed MMA on CBS network television.
TUF 1 helped save MMA. TUF seasons from the eighth one (Nog-Mir) onward have made no small effort at hindering its growth.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Apr 19, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
True, cause thats the same as brawl on national tv.
I mean your right, there wasnt shows like Fear Factor who had people eating bulls balls and goat dicks on network tv and millions of people watched.
Yeah they are the same alright.
a reality tv show in a controlled place, that airs on cable, thats the same as a live event, and a brawl takign place.
Cause that happens all the time during UFC events?
What a weak attempt to bash on Dana, and it failed completely.
Dana is right, SF is a bush league C level org that doesnt know what they are doing and will be gone very soon.
They have shit production, announcers, no depth, they are paying guys so much, if they lose CBS, can they pay Fedor millions and Hendo and DIaz and everyone only from Showtime? WHich they only get 500k viewers on Showtime.
Another good quote from the article:
"You never should gamble on fights," White said. "They bet on (Melvin) Manhoef, (that he would beat Robbie) Lawler. Lawler was very unhappy and they wanted to get rid of him, but it backfired because he knocked Manhoef out. Then they treated Shields like (expletive), let his contract expire and they put all their money on Dan Henderson. "Now, Shields destroys Henderson and look where they’re at. That’s not how you do business."
by Scott Haber on Apr 19, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I completely disagree with jonathon snowden
what happened on TUF was absolutely disgraceful, but it was in a controlled environment and not on network television. Actually, the controlled exactly what got shown and what didn’t (we never saw Nick Diaz storm off the TUF set) as it was all under the auspices of pre-recorded reality television. There is a big difference when you put the icon of a major network next to yours and call yourself their partner, use their cache to try and build brand recognition for yourself and then let things spiral out of control. we all saw the pull-apart that nate diaz had with karo parisyan on TUF and we saw him scribbling ‘209’ on the walls of the TUF house. Because the UFC and Spike WANTED us to see that. CBS and Strikeforce were completely humiliated by the debacle that happened at the end of the Nashville show. That’s what Dana’s rant is about, that CBS let this 2nd tier show humiliate them, let them look like amateurish clowns that didn’t know what they were doing.
by DanielH on Apr 19, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
Yeah, I’m not sure where people get off thinking that the general viewer is so DUMB that they couldn’t tell the difference between what they see on a reality TV show, where drama runs every episode, and what they see on a live sporting event, on network television. I’m sorry, but I don’t subscribe to that way of thinking. Not to mention TUF has cleaned up over time, and feels much more serious than it did before.
When it comes down to it, Dana hasn’t always been about showing the sport in a good light over getting more viewers, but he makes sure nothing gets out of hand on their biggest stage.
"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi
by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 19, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree. If the producer’s in the control booth were on the ball we would not have seen or heard more then a few seconds of that fight. We would only be hearing about it afterwords from the media. You seldom get to watch fans running into the field in baseball and football and the announcers definitely don’t go on and on about.
luke should probably add cold water on jonathon snowden's cold water
it was a pretty ignorant comment.
F'ing Dana
I don’t care if Nate doesn’t act like that on UFC productions or not, Dana has the responsibility to discipline athletes that compete for his organization for acting like thugs. That is, if Dana REALLY thinks/feels/wants the UFC to = NBA/NFL etc.
Highly doubt that happened...
Since Dana knew before hand that Jake Shields would win and then Jason Miller would come in the cage to steal some thunder…Good call, especially since he didn’t throw the first punch.
Just because you hate Dana doesn’t mean that he paid Diaz to do that.
Things that happened on TUF happened with people were not yet in the UFC, they were fighting to get to that point and in many instances their conduct got them censured by the UFC in one way or another. Jesse Taylor was not allowed to fight even after the show stopped airing because of what he did. What happened on saturday happened with two of strikeforces CHAMPIONS on A LIVE TV broadcast on NATIONAL TELEVISION. Huge, huge difference. Come on now, dont just throw words around like they dont mean anything and think before you talk, Snowden Im looking at you
What Does TUF have to do with it?
TUF is a reality tv show on cable, guess what, ever watch Fear Factor? They have guys eating bulls nuts on network tv, you see boxers drinking piss on HBO, eating worms and goat penis on fear factor.
All that shit is a way to attack Dana White, cause god forbid we ever allow him to say something without attacking him.
Point is he is right, SF is bush league c level org, you have never seen a full blown riot in the UFC like that.
Showing shit on tuf, really?
The day a brawl, riot happens in teh UFC cage on a live show is the day you can blast Dana if he doenst go off and suspend poeple etc.
Funny thing is, you see Dana who went off on Brock for what he did at 100, which was PPV not a live tv event, what Anderson did at 112, he showed more emotion then Coker ever has, what has Coker even done?
And for people who bring up other sports, other sports are apart of this culture, You have footbal players who killed people while driving drunk, the guy from the Rams, Vick still playing, why? Cause nobody cares, they are untouchable.
This is a country that people are trying to keep MMA out of NY, so MMA hasnt been around 100 or 50 years like other sports, you dont think they will use this to keep MMA out of NY?
What if that happened in MSG and the crowd got involved and people died? I mean thats the shit anti mma people will say.
This wasnt a PPV or on cable, this was on live network tv. Bringing up stupid shit on TUF is just pointless, its jsut a way to attack Dana White.
Joe Rogan's routine on Fear Factor is hilarious.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
um everything
Considering Dana is attacking SF for having these issues while he hand picks worse behavior to air on TUF.
A reality show about MMA or an MMA event – that behavior belongs in NEITHER.
The SF ghetto brawl was an accidental occurance involving SF fighters and a UFC fighter so its not just SF fighters that are at fault as Dana’s forked tongue would have YOU all believe.
Dana is the one who purposefully puts alcohol in the TUF house and hand-picks the dirtballs himself knowing it’ll bring ratings regardless of the damage he causes mma.
But you go on thinking its because he loves the sport and continue to help Dana get his 11th Ferrari with your money on mediocre fights, hype and bully talk.
I love how suckers defend themselves …against their own obliviousness in being one.
jiMMAy
What this is, its SF fucked up and they are getting killed.
So now that Dana responds, lets take all the focus off SF, and put it on Dana, lets bring up the fact that TUF showed shit, like showing stupid shit on a reality show is that bad.
FEAR FACTOR ANYONE? GOATS PENIS< BULLS BALLS, yeah thats not disgustion. HBO showing boxers drinking piss.
I didnt know that is the same as a brawl on national tv.
But of course, its lets focus on Dana and the UFC and start up shit to attack him, instead of focusing on SF.
Funny thing is Dana shows more emotion, he scolds Brock for what he did at 100, scolds Anderson for dancing around the cage.
Has coker showed any emotion? All I see from the SF people is putting it down like its not a big deal.
Atleast Dana speaks from his gut, he tells it like he sees it, not some scripted fake ass answer that Coker would use.
He actually believes what he says, if that happened in the UFC, for him to even say he would cut Silva for another fight like that, I have to think if someone embarrassed him and the UFC on network tv like that, and lets be honest, this story would be so much bigger if it was the UFC, he would probably have cut the people involved already.
But Dana is such a bad guy and bad for the sport?
but apparently less intelligence
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"expect us to take you seriously or think you’re even remotely intelligent?" - Luke Thomas
What are you TALKING ABOUT?
What does a bunch of young fighters being trapped in a house with nothing to do have to do with 5 PRO MMA Fighters deciding to jump a guy on a live broadcast ? I think this guy needs to STFU! Dana is right on this one.
by Ghost Face Killer on Apr 19, 2010 6:50 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much what I would expect White to say about all of this and in a way he is right about a few things there.
Adding the Snowden quote at the end out of all the other better comments I saw in here was a bit laughable though. Even comments in response to explaining how his comment didn’t make sense could have been put with it.
My blah blah blah
My photography site
"expect us to take you seriously or think you’re even remotely intelligent?" - Luke Thomas
It’s par for the course on here, Snowden is a freaking joke of a writer anyone quoting him on anything is out of their minds.
He’s such a joke of a writer that he’s written maybe the best book out there in terms of chronicling the history of MMA in an accurate and concise way.
Twitter - IainLiddle
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by IainLiddle on Apr 20, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Dana Is still butthurt
Dana Is still butthurt over the CBS deal, LOL
by snakerattle79 on Apr 20, 2010 7:42 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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