Jake Shields Is Really Good
by mason_beer on Apr 18, 2010 1:00 PM EDT
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This Fan Post was promoted to the front page by Nick Thomas. I believe Jake Shields belongs in the top 10 pound for pound fighters list. There. I said it. I can't think of any fighter in MMA that is this good that gets as much hate as Shields. There is always something. He's boring. He lays and prays his way to wins. He doesn't get good ratings. He takes the easy way to wins, etc. But here are some facts:
1. Jake Shields hasn't lost since 2004, going 14-0 in that span.
2. Notable wins over Dan Henderson, Nick Thompson, Paul Daley, Yushin Okami, Charuto Varissimo, Carlos Condit, Mayhem Miller, and Robbie Lawler. At the time of his victories over Henderson, Daley, and Lawler he was considered a big underdog against fighters coming in red-hot and highly rated.
3. He's won titles in two weight divisions for organizations that, yes, are not the UFC, but were major second-tier promotions with good fighters in them.
But last nights performance was masterful.
-- photo via sherdog.com
And while Shields showed a lot of stones in getting through the 1st round after being blasted three separate times in this fight and keeping his cool, what was remarkable was the way a blown-up welterweight could physically maul a middleweight who had to cut 15-20 lbs and has won titles at light heavyweight. It’s a testament to his technique and strength he as acquired in his move to middleweight. And while we all right hail George St-Pierre for always wrestling and mauling because we know it’s the best game plan for him, for some reason Shields takes hell for it. The only REAL hole in Jake's game his ground n' pound is impressive in the ground part, but not so much the pound. He has very weak hands with no power from the top and could really do well to move to the UFC so he can throw elbows. But on the ground he was strong on Henderson, continually passing his guard, going for submissions, and using that top game to completely wear Hendo out so when it did go back to the feet he was clearly tired. You noticed the fight was never stood up with Jake on top? He kept working and never got tired.
I know the brawl afterwards has marred the fight, but I can understand Jake losing his cool. Since Henderson was signed and this fight made, it has been assumed he would lose. Henderson was so red-hot people where talking about fighting Moussasi next, and maybe Fedor. The question was not if Henderson would win but how many titles in Strikeforce would he take. The company itself was basically setting him up to fail, nobody in the fight game picked him to win. I can understand how a continually undervalued and under-appreciated fighter would get pissed at some *ssclown mugging in the middle of the biggest and most important win of his career. People seem to want to blame the Gracie Camp, and with a lot of good reason, but that was Jake's moment and Miller, jealous that Shields is where he wishes he could be (and he does, why else would he try and demand a rematch right away), showed no class in not allowing Shields to have his moment.
If Shields were smart, he would just bolt to the UFC. That promotion would know what to do with him and he would finally get the chance to be a monster at his natural division and prove that he is one of the best fighting the best in the world. So while others will hate on Shields from his style, to his fights, to what happened after the fight I appreciate what he did last night and the performance he put on and the man he beat. NOBODY thought Jake Shields would win, and he didn't just catch a choke-hold early, he went out and for four out of five rounds he dominated the great Dan Henderson.
Cheers to you, Mr. Shields.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Fantastic post
I liked Jake going into the fights last night, but I’m a full-blown fan after last night’s showing.
I’m glad you mentioned the elbows, because that’s something I kept wondering about last night. I think there’s no one that uses elbows better than someone who can really dominate positions.
Like being disappointed? Sweet! Follow @teddwelch on Twitter!
Great Post Mason.
Shields has many great fights ahead of him in the UFC, if he choices to sign.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
Strikeforce’s no elbows rule is really stupid. Elbows would have made all 3 of those fights better.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
The world on a string doesn't mean a thing.
It's only real in the way that I feel from day to day.
by Ubernoober on Apr 18, 2010 1:25 PM EDT reply actions 15 recs
Anyone who wants to ban elbows should be forced to watch Strikeforce: Nashville repeatedly.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
The world on a string doesn't mean a thing.
It's only real in the way that I feel from day to day.
I actually liked the fights last night. Disclosure, I was drunk.
Shinya Aoki: #1 ranked lightweight in the world. How badass is that.
i watched a baseball game over it
1st time ever
I’m all for banning elbows myself, but only if kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponent are allowed. Fighters on their back feel way too safe in the north-south position in American MMA.
If we cant have elbows, let us have soccer kicks
by SilverNBlackZach! on Apr 18, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
There were plenty of soccer kicks. Ask Miller.
by PM23 on Apr 18, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
oh yea, I keep forgetting that everytime I watch Strikeforce
that’s a dumb rule; the more they limit the forms of attack, the more “off” the sport gets. I can see some rules for safety, but not elbows. Wouldn’t mind seeing soccer kicks too.
My blah blah blah
My photography site
"expect us to take you seriously or think you’re even remotely intelligent?" - Luke Thomas
by JeremyShane on Apr 18, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Great Fanpost.
You saved me hours by saying everything I needed or wanted to say.
I think Shields’ most notable accomplishment as of late is his effectiveness at middleweight. I’m all for Shields going to the UFC. That’s the only way we’ll know just how he stacks up.
Make no mistake, I respect Shields’ ability and acknowledge that I was wrong about last night’s outcome, but I am no big fan of his. My feeling is that you have to believe his takedowns are so good that he can get any fight to the ground if you think he can be a “monster” in the UFC’s welterweight division. His standup is pretty terrible, so he would need to get pretty much all the top UFC welterweights to the ground.
Never rooted for Shields til last night.
good stuff..
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
This is a really great fanpost , but I .....
….. diagree with Jake Sheilds is really good . First off his Ground N’ Pound is weak . This is the second strait fight where Sheilds has had a dominiate position and failed to produce a finish . Miller nor Hendo were never in danger of being finished and to be considered a top tier fighter you’ve gotta finish fights . Second his stand up is horrid . His boxing is greatly lacking and needs to be worked on ….. alot . Third hes a one dimensional fighter . If he can’t get the fight to the ground hes gonna lose the fight . Hendo and Miller showed his weakness and sorry to say but in the UFC Shields is not well rounded enough to beat the top 5 at 185 . Jake Shields is a Good Strikeforce fighter and an average fighter if he would venture into the UFC .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 1:55 PM EDT reply actions
Shields is ok at 185, but he’s a submission machine at 170. Let the guy fight someone closer to his size, and have him throw some elbows, and you have a monster.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
The world on a string doesn't mean a thing.
It's only real in the way that I feel from day to day.
He should fight a guy closer to his size like...
Thiago Alves.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 18, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
So he couldnt finish Hendo or Mayhem?
Hendo has never been knocked out in his entire career and Mayhem has only been stopped once. Pretty hard to finish either one of those guys.
There's no dispute here.
I was just making light of the fact that some “welterweights” are as big or bigger than many “middleweights.” Obviously, they do have to cut more weight, but guys like Alves are able to gain back a lot of weight before fight time.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 18, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
But Hendo has been .....
…. stopped via submission which is suppose to be Shields strength . And Miller has been stopped more than once , try 7 times . Heres the seven ……. Jake Shields via decision ( or laying on him doing no damage for 5 rounds ) , Ronaldo Souza via NC ( illegal kick ) and decision , Frank Trigg ( TKO via soccer kicks ) , GSP decision , Tim Kennedy decision , Todd Carney via Sub ( Guillotine choke ) and Chael Sonnen via decision . And Hendo has been submitted by Nog and Anderson Silva .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Losing a decision is not being finished.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
The world on a string doesn't mean a thing.
It's only real in the way that I feel from day to day.
So ....
…. TKO via soccer kicks and submission via Guillotine choke don’t count ?
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not losing a decision.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
The world on a string doesn't mean a thing.
It's only real in the way that I feel from day to day.
No thats being finished ..... more than once .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey NEWB “finishes” are when a fighter is ko/tko/submitted. Miller was finished twice in his career not SEVEN. That’s a very good ratio with the numer of fights he’s fought. So yes he is hard to ko/tko/submit.
by MikeD32 on Apr 18, 2010 4:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was thinking that many of Shields’ latest opponents haven’t even tried to take him down. At 185, I have to wonder how Shields would do against Chael Sonnen, Damian Maia, Palhares, or Jacare who authentically are a stylistic mismatch (not trying to take anything away from the Hendo win, but Hendo really didn’t try to take him down and just looked terrible). In Welterweight, I would like to see him against Koscheck, Fitch, Alves, and the BJJ guys there like Ricardo Almeida. Pretty much, the only way for Shields to really prove his doubters wrong is to fight in the UFC against guys who would try to take him down, who would try to cage walk or try to get up from the bottom, or against guys who would match him in BJJ. Henderson honestly fought as if he were a one -dimensional striker with some decent but not excellent takedown defense and simply incompetent off his back.
Just like Hendo was supposed to, and Mayhem, and Semtex…
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Apr 18, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have just always felt that many of Shields’ fights stylistically favored him. Good for him beating Hendo because on paper, Hendo stylistically had the tools to beat him, but really didn’t utilize any of those tools (more clinching against the cage, greco-roman takedowns). Instead there was sub-par takedown defense, inability to use the cage to get up off his back, one-dimensional striking, and not bucking or doing much of anything when mounted or just on his back for that matter. I don’t doubt that Shields is in the top ten of his respective divisions, and I think that he should only be fighting top fighters, but I feel that like I said above, he needs to fight these fighters that are not stylistically in his favor and will actually use the tools they MAY be better at (Jon Fitch/Koscheck using their wrestling, Maia/Jacare/Palhares using their BJJ) to really prove the doubters wrong. I’m actually warming up to the guy, but I can’t jump on his bandwagon quite yet (and hopefully, I explained why).
My take on his questionable power is this, it is infinitely better to lay n pray from mount than lay n pray from guard like no many others settle for. I hate when fighters refuse to gain the most dominant position they possibly could get. Shields only way to win the fight was on the ground. I also think that shields was wary of putting himself in a position where he could be sweeped and forced to eat some ground n pound from Hendo. Shields couldn’t finish him, so instead he won the positional battle on the ground as soundly as I have ever seen anyone do.
"To be considered a top tier fighter you've gotta finish fights"
Georges St Pierre’s last seven fights: 3 finishes. Jake Shields’ last seven fights: 5 finishes.
Chut Up
Shinya Aoki: #1 ranked lightweight in the world. How badass is that.
Who has Shields finished or dominated ...
… to the point that GSP has ? GSP’s decisions where one sided ass whoopins aginest tough guys who refused to be finished . Also look at the compition level too there bud . GSP has fought the best MMA has to offer , Jake Shields not so much . So take your own advice and Shut up .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You just contradicted yourself. So to be considered a top fighter you have to finish fights, or you have to have “one sided ass whoopins”?
by Neil Manich on Apr 18, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
What did I offend you Mr. Shields # one fan ?
Or can you just not handle that Shields is an average fighter ? GSP has finished some of the worlds best . To list one BJ Penn . Give me one fighter Shields has finished thats on that level ?
Also has Shields been doniniate in his dedisions ? No , he layed on top for 5 rounds doing nothing other than grinding out position . GSP on the other hand is always going for the finish and has been nothing but dominiate versus a better class of fighters . So really either make a point or leave it alone . There is no contradiction here …. to be a top tier fighter you have to finish fights and GSP has finished some of the best in the business and Shields has not period .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
This is fucking pointless right now.
by Neil Manich on Apr 18, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
you cant argue with a guy
who is so stupid he only sees things the way he chooses to. its like trying to tell a brick wall to just stop standing there and do something….its just pointless, you know?
by Opposites Attack on Apr 18, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
No whats pointless ....
….. is the rest of us having to share oxygen with you , butt plug .
If there were some decent points being made I’d admit fault like a man period . I did above when my point was misunderstood but ass clowns like you always have to go to far with it and honestly I’m a little tired of folks like you . You’ve never set foot in a ring yet your the end all be all when it comes to the sport of MMA .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No, no, what's pointless
is your inability to concede that your points are contradictions Mr. Midway. I can’t stand when people in these forums end their statements with “you’ve never set foot in the cage” or “quiet down keyboardwarrior” or some other stupid statements implying that “hey, I train, you don’t, so stfu.” I could care less if you train. It doesn’t give your weak posts any extra argumentative zeal. Implying any training without expanding on the types of insights you gained because of it merely makes you look like a knucklhead, and we certainly could use less of those in these forums. Now on to your arguments.
We get it, you like GSP more than Shields. I do too for that matter. I think he’s more well-rounded and talented than Shields. I think that if they fought, GSP would win via fairly dominant top control special. None of this can mar the fact that shields flat out dominated the #2 MW in the world, making him without a doubt an elite fighter, regardless of whether he finished Hendo.
Even though I disagree that fighters are elite only if they finish fights, in this case I don’t have to prove it, as the point has already been made that Shields does typically finish fights. You know that Paul Daley character in the UFC that is getting all the lovin from the hardcores and is a win away from a shot at GSP? The vaunted striker that has been destroying everyone in his path? Shields made him look like a child and subbed him. Robbie Lawler was top 10 when he made him tap. Thompson was a fringe top 10 when he made him tap.
You may not enjoy Shields lack of power, or his style of ground attack based on attrition, or his teammates, etc. but to downplay the significance of his demolition of again, the #2 ranked MW in the world right now is ridiculous.
by Rudinho479 on Apr 18, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The post where I conceded that ...
…. the statment was misunderstood was deleted . But yes it was somewhat of a contradiction . The point I was trying to get across , but obviously failed to in a big way , is that GSP dominiates his opponents . Either by finish or decision his fights are dominiate , one sided fights . While he may not finish them all when it goes to the score cards you know how its comin back , a win for GSP . Shields decisions are not as decisive as GSP’s . His lay and pray style is a point getter and it seems to work for him , but does not give off the same feeling as the GSP decisions . Its like he afraid to go all out or something . Honestly I think he could have finished Hendo , but was too afraid to lose position and he seems to lack a killer instinct . He mounted him from round two on and did nothing with the position other than hold the dominiate position . His transitions were flawless yet he refused to try to pound him out or try for a submission ( the armbar was too late in the round to do anything other than score with the judges ) . So its not that I don’t like Jake Shields I just think that right now hes a bit overrated and as much as it kills me to say this , Hendo was a bit overrated . At this point in his career he’s down to being a one dimensional fighter . His wrestling skills have diminished greatly over the years . Time is working aginest him at this point .
Also my elite fighter finish fights was misunderstood due to my lack of a solid explanation . Elite fighters do finish fights , but finish can be taken differently . A one sided fight , in my mind , can be viewed as a finished fight . Because like GSP’s last fight , Dan Hardy refused to tap or give up but was utterly dominiasuted throughout that fight . So yes finish in most folks minds means Submission , KO or TKO but a dominiate performance can be just as good as a finish and be considered a finish .
Next I think Paul Daley was exposed in the Shields fight and if put up aginest a good wrestler he’ll be exposed again . I consider him to be too one dimensional of a fighter to even challenge GSP or any of the other great wrestlers in the division . And Robbie Lawler would be nothing more than an after thought in the UFC no matter what weight class he fought in . He’s a great striker and soild wrestler but gets sucked into other fighters game plans too easily .
Also I didn’t mean to offend you or others with my " you never set foot in a cage " comment . You are correct it made me look like an ass and for that I apoloigze . Sometimes the fighter in me needs to be controled , even over the net . My bad guys , my bad . The only thing from a fighters perspectaive I can give you is its sucks to lose when you’ve not been hurt or you feel like you’ve not been hurt . Honestly if you’ve watched MMA and never been in a ring you can still be just as insightful as someone whom has been in the ring .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for humility
It’s easy to forgive someone for sounding like an ass if they acknowledge their mistake.
Thanks ! Mistakes will be made , but ....
… its what you learn from those mistakes .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
All you have to do is compare positional performance, and compare the amount of strikes and submission attempts between GSP and Shields in their last match. I think you’d find that Shields compares quite well to GSP. Do you have those? How many strikes did GSP land compared to Shields? How many submission attempts?
And I think that it’s safe to say that Dan Henderson, one of the most respected fighters in the world who’s bigger and stronger than Jake is decent competition that stacks up to the Dan Hardy’s of the UFC.
For example, how do you think Hardy would fare against Dan Henderson? A guy that that Shields dominated?
I think any of the top WW’s would have destroyed the Hendo that showed up last night. He was visibily slower and gassed extremely quick. Not to take anything away from Shields but that was not the consensus #2 MW of the world Dan Henderson that he fought yesterday. Dan seemed to be a shell of himself.
With that said I would say that Shields game is similar to GSP. GSP focuses more on the GNP and Shields more on the subs. GSP striking is way better and GNP is way better but Shields definitley has better subs.
I would say they have similar survival games off their back. GSP looks absolutley amazing the few times he has been on his back he really knows what he’s doing.
The real question in Shields GSP is what the hell is Shields going to do? I don’t really see Shields being able to strike with GSP and I doubt he is going to be taken GSP down at will.
Perhaps the highest potential I see for Shields is being somewhat competitive in the wrestling department but that’s about it. Shields doesn’t have the GNP to slow GSP down and GSP will get up when he wants.
I think Alves might crush Shields as well and I think Fitch outwrestles him too.
If you are trying to compare Hardy’s guard to Hendo’s guard that is laughable. Hardy’s guard is a legit guard while Hendo’s is some 2000’s survival guard.
Did it look like I was trying to compare Hendo’s and Hardy’s freaking guard? It’s so easy to rock back and forth criticizing Hendo’s guard the day after it was completely destroyed. That comment has absolutely no creedence whatsoever. You have different styles and different strategies in both fights.
But the fact that you’re trying to vault Hardy above Dan says a lot about your opinion. I’m not saying either guy is that much better or that much worse, but at the very least Hendo-who’s beaten and successfully fought the best in the world in different weightclasses-is not easy to beat; and whoever beats him certainly should be credited as better than an average fighter (the main point of my post).
BTW, who did you think was going to win?
Haha only if you were unaware of Hendo’s guard would you say that. Shields only positive thing going into the fight was talking about Hendo’s guard where were you on that?
Hendo looked terrible. Shields does not look any better to me than from last week I see the same Shields. Shields only proved to me that he is a warrior and it does not seem that he is a guy who any quit in him or that he would wilt. That is all that I took from that fight,
Hendo clearly was not the #2 MW in the world. He was a shell of himself. He looked slow. In the first round. The first round is how the whole fight was supposed to be with Dan knocking Shields silly while ragdolling Shields when he tried to shoot.
You are going to be on of those guys who overrate Shields and then when one of the top 4 WWs in the UFC destroy him you will be crushed and in shock.
Hendo has always had a decent survival guard. Shields is just way too good to have that type of guard when you face him. Shields guard passing and all around JJ skills are top level stuff.
I think you would have been a fool to pick Shields for the win. Nothing would lead me to believe he would win.
I laid out three options for Shields to win
1) Hendo lost a step
2) Hendo gasses
3) Hendo did not train
It seems that I left out one option which would be all of the above. Man Hendo looked turrriblle. He’s done in my book at least at 185 were he has always been somewhat flat.
It's all in how you slice and dice it.
Shield’s last 5 fights:
Henderson #2 MW – Dec. W
Miller Unranked MW – Dec. W
Lawler #9 MW – Sub W
Daley #9 WW – Sub W
Thompson Unranked WW – Sub W
GSP’s last 5 fights:
Hardy #6 WW – Dec. W
Alves #3 WW – Dec. W
Penn # 1 LW – TKO W
Fitch #2 WW – Dec. W
Serra #13 WW – TKO W
There’s a lot of room for debate. I don’t think we can pick one as superior to the other by going on finishes. You have to look at their opponents and also each fighter’s complete game. My feeling is that GSP is the superior fighter, but I’d like to be proven right by him beating Shields up….in a sanctioned MMA fight, of course.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 18, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t trying to show that GSP is better than Shields, he’s not his record speaks for itself. I was trying to show, that 1. you don’t have to finish fights to be the top fighter in the world, and 2. it doesn’t matter anyways because Jake Shields finishes fights.
I realize that.
My only goal was to show the many different ways one can compare fighters if they haven’t actually faced off. It’s an inexact science to say the least.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 18, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
your forgetting that..
elite fighters have elite submission defense… and elite standing defense = less mistakes → which = less chances for finishes.
i bet your gonna say fitch isnt good enough for the ufc too?
Sheilds was not an underdog against Daley...
He was a HUGE favorite. I don’t know where you got that from.
Other than that, good post.
Exactly what I was thinking
No way was he a ’dog against Semtex.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"
Go Gonzaga! G-O-N-Z-A-G-A
by ElliotMatheny on Apr 18, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
its just that Semtex was destroying people
and he ended that quick.
Vote Quimby
Not really...
Most were actually unimpressed with his performance. He finished Daley, who is known to have a weak ground game, in the second round after having him mounted for much of the first.
Seeing what Paul has done since, that should be mentioned as a notable victory, but everyone knew that was Shields’ fight to lose.
okay
you guys got me on Semtex. My bad :-)
Vote Quimby
by mason_beer on Apr 18, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that's right
Jake was -520 against Daley http://www.bestfightodds.com/fighters/Jake-Shields-232
http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl
him vs gsp is gonna be a good one
how long till the ufc announces shields signing? there are literally no more fights for him in SF so whats he waiting for
I wouldn’t assume that Shields is going to the UFC. One of the UFC’s best weapons against the competition is getting other organizations to overpay for talent, and this is a great chance for Strikeforce to pay another fighter far more than the revenue they generate.
by Jahbulon on Apr 18, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the reason I think he's going to the UFC
was his comment after the fight where despite representing the organization as its middleweight champion and was basically being “fed” to Hendo hoping he would lose. He can’t be happy about that.
Vote Quimby
He also won’t be happy when watches the tape and hears the Frank Shamrock bad mouthing him throughout the fight. I think he will welcome going to an organization where the color analyst slobbers all over jiu jitsu guys and thinks standups are stupid. Jake will never have to worry about Joe Rogan calling him boring.
Also, how many events does Frank Shamrock have to no sell the guy in the main event before Strikefrorce catches on that he is horrible? Cung Le’s kicks don’t hurt, Nick Diaz’s punches don’t hurt, and now Jake Shields is boring. Does Frank even understand that the broadcast team is supposed to help sell the fights and the fighters rather than trashing them?
But Shields really ...
…. is boring . Thats the only thing Frank got right all night .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s an opinion, ppl on this site including myself do not find him boring at all.
by xbuckeyex05 on Apr 18, 2010 10:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Honestly its a boring fight , but ....
…. Shields had to really work to keep it that boring . So I guess thats kinda givin him props ?
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I was amazed at how well Shields performed last night. He’s a natural welterweight and he completely outclassed one of the best middleweights in history. I want GSP vs. Shields VERY badly now.
Why? GSP will destroy Jake Shields period .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you just hate Shields or something?
GSP would be a very big favorite in that fight but to say that he would destroy Shields is foolish.
How is it foolish ? He couldn't ....
….. finish off Hendo from the mount !!! Also GSP fights the absolute best in the world and utterly destroys them . Look at his last seven fights ….. Dominated Josh Koscheck for a decision , destroyed Matt Hughes and finished him off via armbar , beat Matt Serra into submission , pummeled Jon Fitch for 5 rounds , flat out dominiated one the the best in the business in BJ Penn and beat him via corner stopage and finally just dominiated Alves and Hardy for 5 rounds . So how foolish is it to think hes gonna dominiate / destroy a fighter that is as one dimensional as Jake Shields ? On the contrary , its foolish to think that Shields wouldn’t get desteoyed by GSP .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 18, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP couldn't finish Hardy
and Shields knows what he’s doing on his back, so it would be closer. Unless GSP desided to just say “fuck it” and start kick boxing with him.
Vote Quimby
I think there’s a good chance that he’ll say “fuck it” and commence with a standup attack.
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 18, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Shields good off his back? I honestly don’t know. Pretty much all of his success has come from top control.
His sweeps are pretty good
He uses some nice Ashi Garami (sp) reversals in the Miller fight.
Shields is actually not that great off his back his guard is not that dangerous at all and very average. Even in fights he has won in had trouble when his opponent was in his guard,A few fights that come to mind are when Daley landed some serious elbows and GNP while in shields guard and the Okami fight where Okami just pounded on him from shields guard and messed his face right up. A fight I still don’t know how shields got the W in, If anyting Okami won that fight or it should of been a draw. I will give shields his props though he has come threw in alot of his fights he was sapose to loose and a new challenger for GSP would be nice even though I think GSP does what ever he wants to shields
regarding your long, earlier post...
may i ask what type of “fighter” you are? i mean you sound like you were really glad to mention that you have MMA experience, and having to “keep the fighter in you at bay” or whatever you said. What kind of experience do you have? Because ATM, even in your apology you still kinda sounded like my 12 year old cousin who is a keyboard warrior
Whom are you referring too ? If you are referring to me ....
…. let me know and I’ll tell you my experience .
by MidWayMonster54 on Apr 19, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
why do so many of you
not understand the intricate workings of clicking the “up” button? I know it is very complicated, but I have faith in you.
If you can't laugh at yourself... Who can you laugh at?
The Packers, that’s who.
-- The almighty Manimal
I don’t know what post you are. Lol I never said any of that maybe I was drunk. I said I wish I could be a fighter I am just a lazy bastard though. No MMA experience that shit is for crazy people only. Little boxing little JJ little wrestling nothing really worth bringing up. Street fights who hasn’t had thoughs??
Im 25 a grown man with a child. I may have been drunk or something though. What school you train at and where are you from?
lol wrong guy
i like ur response tho, “maybe i was drunk”.
sorry dude i think i just clicked the wrong button. i was referring to midwaymonster54
ive been a fan of shields for a while , even though some dont like his style of fighting , his BJJ and ground control of very good calibre fighters is a joy to watch , hopefully this fight will win jake a few more fans as he is very good fighter who should start getting some respect after this win.
Volta Terere
check out my articles and interviews at fightlockdown.com
you forgot one
4. Jake Shields is hot.
Kimbo wants to take your caterpiller and do bad things to it.
figured that was just understood.
Vote Quimby
I think he meant to add “looking” to the end of the title.
by ufc4 on Apr 18, 2010 6:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Henderson had problems with Rousimar Palhares in their fight and of course got smashed on the ground in round 2 in the Anderson Silva fight.
…? Aside from the heel hook attempt, and the big takedown, Hendo basically controlled the Palhares fight. He stuffed almost all his takedowns, and doled out a steady stream of punishment for the majority of the fight.
With the Silva fight, he didn’t get “smashed” on the ground, Anderson landed some good shots standing, had Hendo rocked, passed his guard and got the choke. Not really any “ground smashing” involved, to be honest.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture- "The Best Never Rest!"
Go Gonzaga! G-O-N-Z-A-G-A
The statement about Palhares is fair (though you’re right about Silva). Palhares power bombed hendo in the second and took hendo down / scrambled to side control at the end of 1. Because he’s a BJJ guy he of course gassed in the third.
by The Darkness on Apr 18, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Comparing Shield'ss vs GSP's competition over the last years
Jake Shields opponents since 2008 (because that’s when BE started doing their consensus rankings) with ranking at the time/ and current rankings:
Nick Thompson (#11/ unranked currently)
Paul Daley (unranked at the time/#9 WW)
at MW Robbie Lawler (#4 MW/ #9 MW)
at MW Jason Miller (#24 MW/ currently unranked)
at MW Dan Henderson (#2 MW/#2 MW)
Georges St-Pierre opponents since 2008 (because that’s when BE started doing their consensus rankings) with ranking at the time/ and current rankings:
Matt Serra (#2 WW/#13 WW)
Jon Fitch (#2 WW/ #2 WW)
B.J. Penn (#1 LW/#1 LW)
Thiago Alves (#2 WW/#3 WW)
Dan Hardy (#6 WW/#6 WW)
by John Nash on Apr 18, 2010 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
You did a more in-depth job than I did above.
Big high-five!
by Cannon Jacques on Apr 18, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Those rankings clearly suck. I would never rank Matt Serra top ten let alone #2. Jon Fitch at 2 is good, Alves at 3 is good BJ would be an unranked WW. Dan Hardy #6 is just not accurate. Hardy would be a fringe top ten to me at this point.
Lawler should have never been a #4 MW thats crazy I dont see how he is top ten ever.
Jason Miller unranked seems accuratem Dan Henderson 2 is accurate.
Those rankings clearly suck. I would never rank Matt Serra top ten let alone #2. Jon Fitch at 2 is good, Alves at 3 is good BJ would be an unranked WW. Dan Hardy #6 is just not accurate. Hardy would be a fringe top ten to me at this point.
Lawler should have never been a #4 MW thats crazy I dont see how he is top ten ever.
Jason Miller unranked seems accuratem Dan Henderson 2 is accurate.
Could you or someone do ASilva vs Shields?
by The Darkness on Apr 18, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Here you go
Dan Henderson (#4 MW//#2 MW)
at LHW James Irvin (unranked/currently unranked)
Patrick Cote ( #13 MW/Currently Unranked)
Thales Leites (#16 MW/#9 MW)
at LHW Forest Griffin (#4 LHW/ #5 LHW)
Damian Maia (#6 MW/#6 MW)
Thanks.
This is off topic:
ASilva – avg MW ranking at the time he fought them — 9.75.
JShields — avg MW ranking at the time he fought them — 10.25 (assuming the thompson fight was at MW, which it probably wasn’t — the Daley fight was) — 10.
JShields is a bloated WW who’s fighting a weight class above his “natural” class.
Doesn’t this cast a pall over the quality of the MW division (although I say this in the nicest way possible because I believe Shields deserves tons of credit for his victory over Hendo)? Why again does everyone think ASilva is so great?
by The Darkness on Apr 18, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
MW’s problem is depth. Not so much talent at the top. I think the top 7 or 8 guys in the MW could compete with any divisions top 8. After that the cut off is pretty drastic.
You still think Hendo can? After watching this fight, I think Hendo would get killed by GSP, Kos and Fitch, who can all do exactly what Shields did (sans the guard passing in the case of Fitch and probably Kos). Previous to this fight, I only thought GSP would kill him.
by The Darkness on Apr 18, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Hendo is done in my opinion. Hendo from the Bisping fight would be a heavy favorite over GSP. I think GSP would get crushed. However the shell of the man GSP would destroy.
GSP likely would have finished Hendo last night.
I guess a year off at that age can really hurt you. I have Hendo completely dropped off of the top ten MW as of right now and seeing how old he is the bounce back is unlikely.
Hendo has now joined the Matt Hughes, Big Nog group for me., Sad to see another one of these legends done but that’s life I guess.
Or maybe
Shields is simply much better on the ground than we ever gave him credit for. I’m starting to lean in the direction after re-watching his past 4 fights.
I think Shields Mayhem proved where Shields is at on the ground. Top level guy but he is not subbing other top level guys. Thats usually what happens in BJJ as well.
I don’t think Hendo looked all that different than when he fought Bisping, Palhares, or Franklin in his late prime. Henderson’s achilles has always been strong ground fighters (see Nog brothers, Arona, Jackson). Had Hendo knocked Shields out in the first, we’d be trumpeting his greatness and pining for another UFC run. I, sadly, believe that Shields may just be that good.
Competitive BJJ at the highest level often boils down to “get the advantage, stall while looking like you’re not to keep the advantage.” Who cares if you don’t sub a guy if you positionally dominate him for 4 rounds?
That essentially describes my collegiate wrestling top game.
by Neil Manich on Apr 19, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He def looked slow in the fight. I think he could have still competed fine though. He gassed terribly and was in survival mode from the second round on. Can’t fault Shields for Hendo gassing I give him all the credit in the world I just don’t think he is a ten times better fighter pre Hendo than he is post.
Shields vs. Thompson and Daley were both at WW
by Swordslasher on Apr 18, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. I had meant to say that Daley clearly was at WW. I excluded him when I calculated the average ranking of his contenders.
by The Darkness on Apr 19, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
i noticed that too
which means if he does drop back to welterweight he will be an absolute monster t deal with.
Vote Quimby
I believe the Slap Chop guy has more devastating ground and pound than Jake Shields
"I expect him to hit me, and I expect it to hurt. I just don't care." - Chael Sonnen on fighting Anderson Silva
by Earl Montclair on Apr 18, 2010 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Exactly what I was thinking while he was throwing those chinese water torture punchesHe could really learn from a guy like BJ who is a very powerful striker on the ground. Penn uses strikes to cause his opponents to have to move and that opens up his submissions. He did it with Stevenson and Florian and probably others I am not remembering.
I’m not saying Shields sucks at all. Its just if he threw punches with bad intentions from the from the mount he would have forced Dan to move and probable give up his back and then he could have put him away.
"I expect him to hit me, and I expect it to hurt. I just don't care." - Chael Sonnen on fighting Anderson Silva
by Earl Montclair on Apr 18, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
ya what was up with that?
this isnt a slapping contest, fucking punch the guy. he was laying his fists down on him with no force what-so-ever.
Shields looked like he was being forced to punch his grandmother or something.
by Opposites Attack on Apr 18, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You act as if Shields is a new guy. He already has his game. It is not going to change drastically.
He obviously doesnt put everything he has into his GNP because he is more concerned in keeping postition. Also he is just not a naturally hard hitting guy, Explaining why his GNP makes Cain Velasquez’s look like a Hulk Smash. Lol.
Well sorry for making a perfectly accurate observation dude.
Try contributing to the discussion instead of just coming in late and sniping other peoples comments with irrelevant nonsense and your allegedly witty banter.
So annoying.
"I expect him to hit me, and I expect it to hurt. I just don't care." - Chael Sonnen on fighting Anderson Silva
by Earl Montclair on Apr 18, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha coming in late. Hey man I can’t keep up this every post at all times I have a life as well.
No, your the annoying one!
No YOURE annoying! lol
"I expect him to hit me, and I expect it to hurt. I just don't care." - Chael Sonnen on fighting Anderson Silva
by Earl Montclair on Apr 18, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No you are!
Hey man just because you got picked on in highschool or whatever your situation is don’t take it out on me. It;s not my fault you took it like a bitch instead of standing up for yourself like a man and now feel like the world owes you something. Being a tough guy on the internet is gay dude.
I dont understand this but I like it here and plan on avoiding the banhammer at all costs so i will just be the bigger man and let this one go and concede to you. You win and i will not be engaging in such petulant arguments as this one.
"I expect him to hit me, and I expect it to hurt. I just don't care." - Chael Sonnen on fighting Anderson Silva
by Earl Montclair on Apr 18, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey man I don’t like wasting my time with these back and forth things but I don’t mind entertaining things if people come after me. Just answering your comments man. I rather not engage in these types of affairs either so its a draw lol/
sweet
WE BOTH WIN hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
"I expect him to hit me, and I expect it to hurt. I just don't care." - Chael Sonnen on fighting Anderson Silva
by Earl Montclair on Apr 18, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Hate hate hate hate hate
You need to respect the baby... 'cause life is precious... and God... and the Bible.
by timetraveltome on Apr 19, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
great post
its about time someone gave shields credit …
I might not like the way Shields fights
But he is really good at what he does. He’s like Fitch but with less power and more guard passing.
I liked the fight, imo it was fun to watch and it was cool to see Shields dominate a guy he wasnt supposed to.
But him fighting GSP would be mean, GSP would distroy him in all aspects of the fight, stand-up and the ground.
And yeah Shields is very good on the ground, and is a ligit BBJ Black-belt, but that aint gana help you when your getting fighting a guy who has the best ground game in the world.
"Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit." -Mike Tyson
Boring fighting, still wins
How many times did Hendo knock him on his ass with a right, and he stayed alive.
It sucks the guy isn’t a big finisher, but he has beaten quality fighters. I wouldn’t say Top 10 P4P but he’s a solid fighter.
I really think if he went down to Welterweight he could be more dominate, but it wouldn’t work for the time at least in Strikeforce because him and Diaz are butt buddies. If we see him go to UFC, I can’t imagine him lasting a half a round with Silva, so GSP, Fitch, Koscheck, would all be interesting if he was at Welterweight. It looks like Shields has a cement jaw after taking the shots Hendo served him but he’s gonna wanna work on his stand-up defense if he’s gonna keep fighting top competition regardless of the weight class.
Although I agree that Jake shields is great and definitely showed it last night and the other
reasons you mentioned, it’s hard for me not to compare him to Mousasi. Mousasi went 15-0 since 2006,his last lost, had impressive wind throughout and showcased his talent. However mousasi seems to have poor take down defense (or maybe that was his game plan?) and that one flaw showed how far he is from being the best at lhw. Similarly, Shields has fantastic wrestling but 1 major flaw, mediocre standup. What will happen when he fights fitch,kos,alves, Paulo and gsp, who all may neutralize his takedowns and destroy him
standing?
by MikeD32 on Apr 18, 2010 4:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Full credit to Shields. He survived some big bombs and dominated on the ground against a well respected wrestler. Henderson did not look good last night on the ground, and we’ll need to see him fight a few more times to figure out if it was a bad night for Hendo, if Shields is really just that good. Still can’t say I’m on the Shields bandwagon. His style is not that fun to watch. I appreciate GnP as practiced by, say Mark Munoz, but his brand fails to entertain. I think he should get a shot in the UFC at 170 or 185 whichever he prefers. If Joe Silva has a sense of irony, he’ll put Shields in with Jon Fitch.
I have nothing to add here.
Great post good sir.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
I’m fairly certain you have amazing gifs and pics to add.
"I expect him to hit me, and I expect it to hurt. I just don't care." - Chael Sonnen on fighting Anderson Silva
by Earl Montclair on Apr 18, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I do
But I’m saving them shits for the appropriate times.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Oh please.
the gifs are half the reason I come to this site.
Vote Quimby
There is a serious amount of truth to this
"I expect him to hit me, and I expect it to hurt. I just don't care." - Chael Sonnen on fighting Anderson Silva
by Earl Montclair on Apr 18, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ll see what he does.
SF probably doesnt want to lose a champ, and lose them to the UFC.
Jake could say I’ll get paid big money to fight lesser comp in SF.
They have Lawler and Hendo, Miller he already beat.
Le lost, Smith isnt a threat, Melvin lost to Lawler, so that leaves jacare.
he could drop to WW, he wont fight Diaz, but Jay, Riggs, Tyron, not big fights, but he could get paid and just beat guys that arent big time fighters, fights he can win probably easy, with the exception of Jacare.
So would he jump to the UFC? I think you have GSP, Fitch, Alves, Kos, Daley, he beat, Hardy, Rumble, Swick, Paulo Thiago, Hughes, Serra etc.
So many fights for him at WW, and even MW, though he shouldnt even fuck with MW.
SO if he comes to the UFC, he could lose to a top WW, then he falls to the bottom, he isnt exciting, so if he lost to GSP, there is so many other fighters in the div, he would fall to the bottom.
Yeha there is way more fights, bigger fights, but in SF, even if he lost, you win one fight and get another title shot.
So does he want to fight the best in the top org against the best fighters, or does he want to stay in SF and fight lesser comp and be the top guy?
We’ll see. he said he wanted to fight at WW, fight GSP, figh the best, he will get his shot to sign, its time to put up or shut up.
He wanted GSP, well I could see the UFC taking a SF champ, paying him good, and since he is a two org, two div champ who just beat a top 3 MW in Hendo, and is someone GSP hasnt fought, even if they dont like to do it, I could see them giving Jake a title shot with GSP right away.
They gave Hendo title shots, but that was to merge the Pride titles, even though Jake has two belts, EXC and SF, they cant merge those titles, so the UFC never brings someone in for there first fight that isnt a merging title fight, they dont give them title shots right away.
But this is an exception, Jake should get GSP first.
Again, what about this. A good fight, a way to hype it, and get Jakes name out, though he just beat Hendo on CBS.
GSP vs Jake Shields, both coach on TUF 12. US vs Canada TUF season, you use TUF, you get GSP on as a coach with his own team, he is a big star, Canada would love it and follow him, get Jake in there and promote him using TUF and then they fight.
Now they would have to wait till Dec for that fight, thats keeping GSP out for a long time, which they might not want to do.
But thats a way to really promote him and the fight.
US vs Canada, Jake vs GSP TUF 12, it works.
Sounds like an excellent idea Kris. Shields vs GSP doing a TUF and everything. They could build that into a huge huge fight.
Right now in WW
The only fight I wanna see GSP involved with is Shields. I don’t see how any can jump Shields at this point he has proven himself to be a top fighter time and time again.
Its a way to hype the fight.
GSP has never been a TUF coach, with his own team, he was part of TUF 4 as a coach with Hughes etc, but he didnt have his own team GSP.
the US vs UK season added interest to the season, you do that US vs Canada, which has some good prospects and according to the UFC, Canada is the biggest market for them, they do the most PPV buys out of Canada, I mean shit, you just saw UFC 115, with no title fight sell out in 30 min, fastest ever, they did 20k plus people when they did the GSP/Serra 2 fight I believe, they want in Toronto so bad, so Canada is really big into MMA.
So you know if GSP was TUF coach they would be all over that like flies on shit. And they do have some talent.
You got Rory McDonald UFC has, you got Mike Ricci from Bellator training with GSP, you got Claude Patrick the UFC just signed.
You got KOTC Canada up there, MFC out of Canada, i’m sure there are some good untapped prospects the UFC could dig up if they held tryouts for a team Canada.
Get GSP and Gregg Jackson, Rashad etc team, and then Jake with Gilbert, Diaz etc and team Gracie.
the US vs Canada season alone would be interesting, you get GSP who is a huge star on TUF, you use it to promote Jake, who is actually on TUF right now as a coach who you never even see.
It would be perfect.
The ONLY problem is that you film in the summer, that is if Jake is signed by then, but they wouldnt fight till the NYE card in Dec, it would be ok if GSP took a fight right before filming, you get another PPV out of him and he gets a fight etc, assuming he wins that fight.
But the only legit contenders would be Kos/Daley, they dont fight till May, they couldnt be ready to fight in June, early July.
Fitch/Alves same thing wont fight till May. So there isnt anyone to give GSP to fight, so you would be holding him out from March 27 to Dec, taking a title out of the mix and other than Brock, GSP is the biggest PPV draw in the UFC, to keep him out all summer till Dec, would the UFC do that?
But the thing is, who could you even think of to do the next TUF? I heard rumors about BJ moving to WW and fighting Daley/Kos winner as coaches, but BJ aint moving up and he just lost.
I was thinking maybe if they did, but no they wont do this, I was gonna say maybe the Machida/Shogun winner vs Randy, but with Chuck being a coach this season, and how can you pass Rampage/Rashad winner for a title shot for Randy doing TUf and getting a title shot?
And no way they bring Rashad/Page back when they just did it.
So I have no clue. Maybe this.
Brock/Carwin vs Cain. Tuf coaches. they fight in early July, which gives them plenty of time to film the season, and they wouldnt fight till the end of the year anyway, the thing is, does anyone think Brock would actually do this?
I think they could get Carwin to do it, and Cain, but we all know Brock would be the selling point to see how he handles shit.
But actually that isnt a bad idea, it works out too, you get a huge fight with Brock/Carwin in July, the winner goes right from the fight to do TUF vs Cain, they fight in a mega fight at the Dec end of the year card.
So thats another option.
Either one I like, so we’ll see.
No need for GSP to waste his time on TUF. the dude is hella popular.
Keep Firing, Assholes!
The world on a string doesn't mean a thing.
It's only real in the way that I feel from day to day.
Try and help revive the series with ratings. It would (hopefully) brings more attention to Shields by using GSP’s popularity.
by Swordslasher on Apr 18, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
hes ok
herderson back was gone real shields only test he has a great camp with the diaz brothers MMA Fight Force will like to see him fight some of the top ten fighters like t silva or a real good striker
it doesn't mean he's a better fight than Anderson
the UFC obviously has had a problem finding good MWs for him.
Vote Quimby
1. Shields is better than people gave him credit for.
2. Hendo isn’t as good as people thought he was.
3. Shields is basically a bloated WW, who just crushed the consensus #2 MW in the world, proving once and for all what a complete joke the MW division is.
4. I still think Shields loses to the UFC’s top 4 WWs but he is definitely a top 5 MW.
5. Hendo’s MMA wrestling (and likely his greco roman wrestling at present) is simply not that good, nor is obviously his cardio. I’m sure that he was somethign to behold 14 years ago when he made the olympic squad but that’s a long, long time ago. It took Jake Shields to make people realize this — obviously palhares, arona and nogueira weren’t enough. (They were enough for me.)
6. Anyone who wrestles better than Jake Shields does (or whose TD defense is better than Shields’ TDs) is a terrible match up for him because he poses no threat on his feet. If he goes to the UFC he therefore absolutely has to stay in the MW division which is full of incompetent wrestlers, with the exception of Mr. Sonnen. If he goes to WW there is one wrestler after another who can make his life miserable.
Lastly, I send my congratulations to Jake. I thought it was a great fight.
I think my assessment on Shileds is fair. The Hendo fight didn’t really make me see anything of his skillset that I haven’t seen before.
I have had and still have Shields as #5 WW. He would jump Kos but Kos would be a favorite going in also with Kos wrestling background not to mention his striking which is much better than Shields. Kos has lost but has been fighting in the top promotion for a while while Shields has not. Also Kos takes fights on short notice.
But it was questionable for me to do that but after going thru it Im content with him being #5 for now until he faces one of the top four WW.
I haven’t had Shields ranked as a MW but he makes his case everyday.
No way do I see Shields as a top 5 MW. Hendo looked slow and gassed hard. Not taking anything away from Shields but he would get murdered by Nate, Sonnen, Vitor, Maia as well.
You can rank fighters however you like, but he’s beaten Okami, Lawler and Hendo. All ranked MWs. Most people will rank him at least top 5 because he just beat #2. If there were a way to bet over the Internet, I would be willing to bet a substantial amount of money on his being ranked in the top 5 the next time consensus ranking are released.
by The Darkness on Apr 18, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Paypal has escrow services — ie, release $X if Y occurs?
by The Darkness on Apr 18, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I never have thought of Lawler as a top ten guy. Okami was beaten at 2006 and was fighting 170 I assume. Hendo looked like an old man even in the first round.
Geez sounds like Im a Shields hater or something right? Hey Im not tryna take anything away from him but those scenarios are all legit.
Yea the rankings will probably reflect your point of view more. I just think my rankings are more of an accurate assesment of the current MMA landscape.
Nates Kryptonite is a good ground game, channel's is Jiu Jitsu.
Maia should beat him but ya never know. And Vitor? if it makes it out of the 2nd my money is on Jake.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
It definiltey would be interesting. I would watch all of those fights. I think Chael would be wayyy too big for Jake. Sonnen was 207 for his last fight . Shields being 190-195 would have a tough time.
Maia should beat him but your right you never know. Vitor is a bad bad matchup for Shields. Anyone who can survive with Shields on the ground and kill him on the standup is a bad match up.
I don’t think Shields JJ off of his back is good enough to sub Sonnen.
Either way Shields is a legit top ten MW. He might be better of going into the UFC as a MW actually.
good summary
I wonder sometimes if fighters get too attached to a trainer and/or camp. Watching Kelly Pavlik in boxing last night made me think the same thing. I think on the ground, Jake really is world class in my opinion. But I think there is nothing more at Cesar Gracies he can do. I like the GSP model . . . he goes where the best are, he doesn’t surround himself with a single camp. His core is in Montreal with Firas and the Tristar crew . . . but he heads down to NYC for his jits and Muay Thai, and to New Mexico for fine-tuning and gameplanning.
Jake REALLY needs to work on his hands. Maybe heading down to Hollywood for some lessons from Freddie Roach. Maybe AKA, where Josh Koscheck has turned into a striking beast. Maybe ABQ, where a raw wrestler like Rashad Evans turned into a KO artist. Dellagrotte or Hume? I don’t know, I think Jake has maxed out his career outside of the UFC and at Cesar Gracies. Your right, to swim with the big dogs like Kos, Fitch, and Alves – Jake needs to work on his hands. Big time.
Vote Quimby
Great fanpost, btw, and very good points.
It seems like Jake isn’t completely helpless on his feet; he landed some OK body kicks, but he doesn’t sit down on his punches well and has zero head movement, although I’m a million miles away from being an expert on such matters, so I’ll shut up now.
All of these guys should train with different sparring partners, in different disciplines, with different trainers, etc. I don’t see how anyone can see what incredible success GSP has had and not want to, or try to, do exactly what he’s done. It’s possible that Freddy is too costly for Shields, but I’m sure there are a ton of awesome boxing trainers that could help shields with his head movement and footwork enough to make a difference.
While I’m in an advice giving mood, I’ll note that Jake should do everything in his power to keep improving his wrestling (especially given that his greatest strength seems to be his top game).
by The Darkness on Apr 18, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I care less and less about P4P and rankings in general everyday. We see fans and media talk about so and so being rated 1, 2 or whatever, then one fight later this greatest whatever in MMA suddenly tanks. Look at BJ or Aoki or Machida, etc. What happens when Silva or Fedor lose a fight; they suddenly go from God to just another fighter? So I don’t know what to say about rankings anymore.
But I can say that Shields impressed the hell out of me last night. I still think he needs to do more damage when he has someone down and get the fight ended; but if controlling Miller a whole fight doesn’t impress someone; taking shots from Henderson and then controlling him for the whole fight should.
My blah blah blah
My photography site
You "expect us to take you seriously or think you’re even remotely intelligent". - Luke Thomas
"He's boring. He lays and prays his way to wins"
Facts-Mayhem is near impossible to sub. Dan Henderson- has only been subbed by the Nogs . Anderson choked him but that was only because he was seeing stars.
Before that Jake stopped 8 people by sub or tko. Besides his last two at middle weight the Last time he went to a decision was against Carlos Conduit in 2006. Lets pump the brakes on him not being a finisher. He was threatening with subs all through both of the fights. Those guys didnt give him a chance to finish. That shows what tough guys they are not that Jake isnt a finisher. Imho I mean its not like he is a black belt that doesnt know how to Kimura or something.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
Jake Shields is good
Anyone who can dominate someone of Henderson’s wrestling acumen on the ground like that has to be considered good. I picked Henderson to win using his wrestling to stay on the feet and to drop the bomb for the KO. But he couldn’t put him away in the first despite landing those big shots, and afterward he couldn’t defend those takedowns and keep it standing. I don’t think Dan lost because he’s old. I think he lost because Jake came better prepared, and because he was genuinely better than people gave him credit for.
Don’t forget to factor in Hendo being gassed. Shields didn’t look like he had any chance to wrestle with Hendo in the first round even though he was rocked I see that scenario more likely then what took place for the rest of the fight.
Put it this way Shields would not be doing that to Sonnen. I think Dan looked noticeably slower in the first round. Also Hendo clearly was gassed in the second and looked to me to even start gassing almost immediately after dropping Jake the first time.
Great Post!
Woulds Shields be competitive w/ GSP? Almost certainly not. (Then again, I thought BJ would smash Edgar in 3, so I guess that’s why they fight!) But regardless, Shields has earned his P4P stripes.
Also, I think the shallowness of the MW division is greatly overplayed. Tonight showed 2 things: 1st – Shields is a better fighter than he is commonly given credit for; 2nd – Hendo is possibly over the hill. At 39 he’s had a long run, but he looked well, OLD tonight.
Yea it saddens me to see Hendo like that. But WTF man he is 39 and took a year off. Shit happens.
GSP is a terrible matchup for Shields. Shit I think Koscheck is a horrible match up for Shields. Alves might be as well but we are still not sure where Shields wrestling is . I don’t think its GSP level but it may be better than Kos. Would it be enough against Alves? Can Shields even hold Alves down and how is he going to survive against Alves?
I don’t think Alves is good for Shields either. I am looking to see Alves take care of Fitch and become the consensus #2 in WW but Fitch is going to be going balls to the wall wrestling and is also bigger than GSP. Should be a great fcuking match up though can’t wait.
Shields is going to find himself in deep deep trouble against guys who aren’t one dimensional. Shields Fitch should be a great display of grappling prowess but considering how big Fitch is also I think Fitch is slightly a better wrestler.
Also on BJ Frankie I did not get on that BJ train for that. I though Frankie would be competitive at least thru four. Frankie was vastly underrated and still is I think. Frankie has shown some serious skill.
Frankie 1.0 who was still beating big names I would undestand. but Frankie 2.0 who destroyed Sherk and Veach looked like an absolute monster to me. I thought BJ was going to catch Frank eventually and I think he did but it was too late. I think BJ had Frankie rocked towards the last seconds of the fight but it was too little too late. No one expected BJ to be out of shape either.
In the next fight I don’t see BJ taking Frankie down either. It should go same way basically but BJ will likely be in better shape and will attack a little more when he sees openings. Hard to say though because BJ is keeping the takedowns in mind and cant go all out seeing as Frankie smartly keeps BJ on his toes and grabs a leg if it there. Should be a great fight either way.
Hendo got Hen-done by Shields. Go to the UFC plox!!!
If I wake up tomorrow and see that the world has ended, then that means God has finally granted my prayers.
GO Armageddon!!!
If you're going to put Shields on the P4P list...
Might as well put Machida. He has a far more impressive record and much more deserving. Also that win over Condit was a robbery. Condit won that fight.
Personally, I don’t think you can’t put Shields on P4P until he fights the best with regularity and the best in MW or WW are in the UFC. Submitting Robbie Lawler is no major accomplishment at this level of the game. And he did not look good against Mayhem at all.
But that's your subjective view.
There is two ways to look at ranking at this is
a) make a subjective list based on personal opinion on which fighter is superior
b) make a objective list based on some sort of quantifiable analysis
Do I think Shields is truly one of the top 10 most talented fighters in mma? No. But which other fighter has put together a top 10 resume in two weight classes?
To me
if dudes like Brian Bowles could all the sudden be put on people’s lists just because he beat Miguel Torres in his only like 8th career fight, then Sheilds has done enough to be on their as well.
"With great power comes great responsibility" -Spiderman's Uncle
You got quite the arguement. Since I am a dick I refuse to acknowledge 135 class simply because I do not feel threatened as a man by them and feel like I would knock them out. I might as well be watching the woman’s division , no interest for me.
Guys like Mike Brown and Jose Aldo make me say man that would not be fun though so I respect that weight division. Fucked up as it is.
It’s not like he is a can crusher. He has w’s against a lot of top ten… fringe top ten… and solid fighters. Maybe he isn’t top ten p4p… but beating the #2 mw… out of his natural weight class soundly make it a reasonable thing to consider. Hindsight is 20/20 but few of us on any board gave him a chance against Hendo… as he’s that good and Shields is proving his merit…
You need to respect the baby... 'cause life is precious... and God... and the Bible.
by timetraveltome on Apr 19, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
You don’t think a visibly aged Hendo or the fact that he gassed early in the fight plays a part as well? You really think the Hendo from the Bisping fight would have lost in that fashion?
I don’t really underrate or overrate anyone. Shields skillset did not change from when he fought Daley to when he fought Hendo. He has been basically the same fighter while surely improving all areas somewhat but not by a great extent.
The only thing new that I saw from Hendo Shields was that Shields handled himself pretty good while he was in danger. Some guys wilt when they get hurt. Shields looked like he took a beating pretty good and doesn’t seem to have the Belfort, Gonzaga disease. Which is good for him because it’s not the last beating he is going to take considering he will go to the UFC.
I think my assesment to Shields is fair and I think I have an accurate view on his skillset regardless of weight class.
Fair enough.
You need to respect the baby... 'cause life is precious... and God... and the Bible.
by timetraveltome on Apr 19, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I put on the other post but I might as well here.
I think Shields can get a 75k to show 75 k to win deal right now. He has to strike while the iron is hot.
Shields might be better off going for 100k flatrate considering he is going to probably be fighting GSP, Kos, Fitch, Alves type of guys and winning all of those is nearly impossible.
Shields seems to stay in great shape and seems to take care of himself. I can see him fighting 3-4 times a year with advertisements could make some serious cash for himself.
I don’t know what Strikeforce is paying him per fight do you?
Jake is probably already getting something in the neighborhood of $100,000+ flatrate (the same as the other Elite XC signees Robbie Lawler and Nick Diaz) plus an additional Champions bonus. If I’m Shields I’m not signing unless it’s a guaranteed title shot and $200,000 to show and $150,000 to win (just north of Michael Bisping money and on par with Frank Shamrock). The UFC is going to put him on the main event of a 700,000 seller, that’s $18 mil in ppv revenue right there. They can afford to cut him in for 1-2% and Strikeforce can’t afford to let him leave.
I think he should expect less than that, I just really don’t think he’s all that valuable in the eyes of the UFC.
"With great power comes great responsibility" -Spiderman's Uncle
I don't think Shields would get an immediate shot at GSP
the only person Dana was willing to give an immediate shot was Fedor since it set up his boy Brock to face the supposed p4p best heavyweight. With Jake at best they might give him the Belfort treatment having him go up against at least one top WW, probably the likes of Fitch or Koshcheck. Shields certainly raised his stock last night but I think the UFC would still have a bit of building to do for Shields as a marketable name so putting him in with GSP right away wouldn’t make sense. There aren’t a wealth of casuals familiar with the Jake Shields brand and the ones that are probably think of him as nothing more than a soft-fisted human snuggie. If people were like “oh this dudes the number 1 WW and one of the p4p best, better than GSP” maybe Dana would have the initiative to set this up, but being king of a hill doesn’t help you to climb a mountain.
Melendez wouldn’t get an immediate shot, neither would King Mo, Overeem, or Diaz. Not even Mousasi would have gotten an immediate shot back when he had the belt and everybody was riding his wagon. To be fair while WW is lacking contenders that have yet to be blown away by GSP or even look like they possibly wouldn’t, I still think the UFC would want to test Shields’ merit before they give him a title shot. After that I’d say maybe set him up with a season of TUF but it’s not like Jake has the most engaging personality to get people into his shit, for lack of better word.
"With great power comes great responsibility" -Spiderman's Uncle
No way its too risky. Why blow a title shot. WW main problem is that Fitch is beating all of the contenders. No way they risk putting Shields in there with the big dogs of WW in the UFC. Shields potentially could be eaten alive and bye bye big PPV right there.
Shields is at his height of interest. He just beat Dan Henderson. I mean regardless if Hendo looked old slow etc he just beat him. No way Dana misses an oppurtunity like that. If he did he should be fired honestly.
Put it this way. This situation would be equivilant if Jon Fitch was released from the UFC and Melendez just beat the crap out of him. You don’t think Melendez gets the next shot at Edgar? Cmon now man.
No
actually I don’t think he would. First off why Fitch vs Melendez? Jake Shields has been fighting succesfully as a MW for a while now and so has Hendo so I don’t know why your convoluting the weight classes for those two. I mean what are you saying, Fitch goes down and fights at LW, because even though he’s the #2 WW it wouldn’t really mean as much if Melendez was fighting him outside of that weight class.
Lastly I think people are overvaluing just how much these guys accomplishments in Strikeforce actually means to general fans. I really don’t think Jake Shields is all that big of a name regardless of how he performed against Hendo, so I don’t know how you’d figure it’d be a big pay per view outside of the fact that all of GSP’s PPVs are big regardless. There’s also the fact that Jake’s last couple of fights haven’t even been at WW anyway.
"With great power comes great responsibility" -Spiderman's Uncle
No
Hendo’s first two fights were against Rampage and Anderson Silva to merge their two belts with the two belts Hendo had coming in from Pride.
"With great power comes great responsibility" -Spiderman's Uncle
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