Does It Matter if the UFC Lies to the Media, Fans?
by Luke Thomas on Apr 14, 2010 3:40 PM EDT
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That depends on your priorities.
Lying to the press is never a good idea. In the information age, falsehoods can come back to haunt you and severely undermine your credibility. Tell a lie before all of the facts are out and an enterprising reporter can make you pay. But that's actually not what happened with the UFC and the main event for UFC 115. The UFC was much more brazen. Rather than lie and work to cover up details they didn't want disseminated, the UFC deliberately went on the record in interviews in print, radio and online saying words and spreading messages they knew to be false. That means they actually incorporated the unwitting press into their plans to present an untrue narrative to fans and other interested stakeholders despite numerous published reports that the information the UFC was pedaling was false.
Why? While the UFC has yet to issue any statement explaining the matter, the clear answer is to ostensibly protect the results of the new season of "The Ultimate Fighter". That was the choice, wasn't it? Either tell the truth and spoil the show or lie and preserve some measure of interest in a Liddell vs. Ortiz 3 match-up, while switching to Franklin vs. Liddell when tickets had to go on sale.
Except that wasn't the choice and to suggest as much is to issue a completely false dichotomy. It takes a serious poverty of imagination and amateur PR skills to look at the UFC's predicament and conclude lying is the only serviceable option. By definition, lying is never the serviceable option. The benefits are too small and the costs are too great. Any experienced PR team (and certainly any the UFC can hire or afford) knows a) you undermine your credibility to those media outlets when you lie (especially so brazenly) and b) why undermine your institutional credibility when you can offer a comment about the matter that leaves wiggle room? It's absolutely common practice with a high degree of historical success particularly for those with the most to gain or most to lose.
Within the ranks of the MMA community I often hear that pure, unadulterated candor and basic, meat and potatoes language is a welcome relief from the scripted language of other sports leagues' executives. As refreshing as conversational language may appear in the mouths of the powerful, there's a reason the overwhelming majority of them don't use it for business matters (hint: the answer isn't personality differences). The core problem is that black and white language is critically limited in it's application. There is such a thing as nuanced and sophisticated messaging and it's used because it's ultra helpful in sticky situations, especially when there's money on the line or the stakes are high. Basic language and basic decision-making paradigms are useful, but only in basic situations.
Not everyone within the media agrees with the UFC's decision. Michael David Smith of UFC-credentialed MMA Fighting professionally expresses his disappointment with the UFC's decision to lie, although he never actually says what's wrong with lying. Still, I commend Smith for not accepting the behavior.
Yet, some do. Damon Martin of UFC-credentialed MMA Weekly flatly argues that lying, while regrettable, was in the UFC's best interest. I have a ton of respect for Damon and the work of everyone at MMA Weekly, and I suspect in the wake of Sherdog.com losing their credentials, he's trying to protect the site's interests. But if you're going to justify being lied to - an act that attempts to undermine the effort to report facts - then you deserve to be lied to.
Also, there is no separation between media and fans here. White and Ortiz didn't simply lie to the media, somehow sparing UFC fans. Talking to the media is a means to reach MMA fans and other interested parties. You cannot lie to them in a vacuum. Lying to them is lying to the world. There's also the fact that White lied on his Twitter feed, which presumably is followed by hundreds of thousands of UFC fans. He circumvented the media to directly give UFC fans a narrative he explicitly knew to be false.
Let's answer the question, then: what is the problem with lying to the media or fans?
Aside from the obvious, the answer is that it severely undermines and erodes the foundation of honesty that guides the relationship between media and organization. The media has a responsibility to honestly and forthrightly publish only true information when reporting; the organization has a responsibility to only release information they know to be true. The UFC is free to withhold whatever information they choose, but knowingly telling falsehoods to select members of the media that seek to undermine other conflicting reports within the media is using the media to cannibalize itself.
It also compromises those who lied as dubious sources of information. Dan Steinberg of the Washington Post spoke about this matter before. White is all too happy to field media requests even though his proximity to the issues often makes his position as a helpful source both limited and questionable. White has become both promoter and de facto PR arm of the UFC, and the media appears all too eager to source him ad infinitum despite basic conflicts of interest.
I sincerely doubt White or Ortiz are happy about misrepresenting what happened to either the media or fans. I do not believe it's a decision they are necessarily proud of or hope to repeat. But apprehension doesn't absolve them from blame if they go through with it. And if they go through with it in the face of clear, ethical alternatives, it makes sympathy for their position impossible to come by.
UPDATE: Dana White answered questions today from Jim Rome about this very issue:
Rome also asked White about a couple of other issues, including lying about the upcoming Chuck Liddell-Rich Franklin fight.
"The people who feel like they've been lied to? Too bad," White said. "Get over it. It's a reality show, and oh, well."
Translation: "If you feel like you've been lied to, you have, but we don't care." And people in the media are defending this?
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omg
I’m sorry; but I am so tired of hearing the “media” whine about the lies told about the show. Who were the idiots asking White, Ortiz and anyone else questions they couldn’t answer? Are we really supposed to believe that the people in the “media” are not smart enough to figure out that they aren’t going to reveal a major event on a show that is dependent on “what will happen next?” like all reality shows are?
This is ridiculous. Most all of us knew that we just had to wait to hear the truth and that was pretty much all there was to it.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by JeremyShane on Apr 14, 2010 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 20 recs
Thanks!
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Apr 14, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm trying
I don’t write this expecting a single UFC fan to agree with me, so might as well thank them for commenting.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
UFC fan or not, if you really were offended by them not telling the world what happens on the show your just expecting too much. Dana is a business man and a promoter and it would have been really stupid for him to say what happened.
Now if the UFC sold tickets to under the impression that it was Chuck vs Tito knowing Tito wouldnt be fighting, that would be something to write about. That would be worthy of saying he lied to he media and fans.
by JCBee on Apr 14, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
do you not see the difference
between not revealing what happens on the show — “no comment” “what the show and find out” and a fucking lie?
what a bunch of rubes and idiots.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 14, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Does It Matter If Website Mods Insult The Readers That Keep Them Running?
If Dana White called any UFC fans “a bunch of rubes and idiots” you would be writing a huge article about what an asshole he was.
by Jason H. on Apr 14, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
I just don’t get where this attitude has come from lately. I’ve been reading this site for quite a while now, and it’s never seemed this combative until recently.
You’d think you’d be thrilled to pull 100-300 comments on an article, but instead we’ve got staffers in here pissed off that other people don’t agree with them and insulting people like it’s the Sherdog forums.
We get it, you guys have beef with Dana White. You guys also know plenty of people agree, and plenty of people don’t. You guys know that writing articles like this will get ton of comments one way or the other. This is a good thing for a website.
Why you want to berate those commenters is beyond me.
by Jason H. on Apr 14, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I stay out of the comments these days
If there is a particular incident that I should know about where staff stepped over the line, please let me know.
And I’m serious: if you think we’re over the top, write a fanpost. Smart, pointed criticism helps everyone.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Yeah
When I first started commenting you used to lose your temper all the time in the comments. I remember it being a little off putting. But you’ve been doing a really good job staying above the fray recently. That “thanks” you posted in the beginning of this thread was perfect.
It takes a while to get used to it
But I think I’ve rounded the corner on this one. Finally.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Apr 14, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well the other day Rome said A Silva fought “like a bitch”, pretty sure I’d get banned for that.
by ufc4 on Apr 14, 2010 6:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t wanna sound like a little kid snitching on his classmate on the playground but I think the whole point of “no fighter bashing” is so the comments don’t turn into the Sherdog forums and if people see a staff member saying that kinda stuff then everyone else is gonna think it’s OK and we don’t need that.
You’d think you’d be thrilled to pull 100-300 comments on an article, but instead we’ve got staffers in here pissed off that other people don’t agree with them and insulting people like it’s the Sherdog forums.
No one insulted anybody for disagreeing with them, imo they are frustrated that some passionate responses don’t even get the basics of the argument.
Where in the post did Luke call for him “to say what happened?”
I just lost it a bit
because of the willful refusal of some people to agree that lying is wrong.
Lying IS wrong.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
lying is wrong but I think you are also being naive in not understanding that he is a promoter.
You talk abou this effecting MMA standing in the mainstream press but I have yet to see anything in the mainstream complaining about being lied to.
So is hitting people; but we are all ok with that too.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
lol
well, I was being fictitious there
but anyone that hurt by Dana’s “Lies” seems to act like 1. They never lie and 2. They don’t look the other way when something different, but still morally ambiguous happens that falls on the side of not being a big deal to them.
It just comes off a bit to “high and mighty”.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
no, the only idiot is someone that asks White a question like “Is Franklin replacing Tito on the show and in the fight?” and thinks a “No Comment” or a “I Can’t answer that” response isn’t essentially giving a affirmative. The naivete in believing that would qualify for rube as well I’d say. Nice fail once again kid.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by JeremyShane on Apr 14, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no one asked Dana to tweet about it
that came out of nowhere, not in response to a question.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Actually Dana could have been answering a question. Dana doesn’t use the reply button when answering questions he just spits out the answer and when multiple people ask him a similar question he doesn’t direct it towards anyone with ‘@whoever’ he just tweets the answer for everyone. Look back through his tweets and you will see what I mean.
Just BE.
Yea, I seriously doubt he was just throwing it out there randomly when he didn’t want it out there anyways. Not to mention plenty of other “media” types asked him the questions repeatedly that they know he cannot answer.
And the writers here should not be acting like White pulled a fast one on them when everytime I read an article about it there was the feeling in the article that White could be covering up for the show. So they obviously were not oblivious.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by JeremyShane on Apr 14, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry.
it wasn’t solely directed at you.
And I understand the media always wants to know everything; that’s what they do. Find stuff out and tell everybody.
But there comes a point where they should be able to figure out stuff like this and realize that maybe when they are asking questions they know can’t be answered; that an answer might not be on the level. I mean, if not, then how come every report about what Dana or Chuck or whoever said came with many statements about how they might be fibbing to us? yet everyone is still so stamping their feet mad that someone dared not tell them the truth about something we knew they couldn’t tell us?
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
Except if you accuse a figure of being dishonest, you can be smeared as biased against him/her, or worse, open yourself up to a defamation claim.
But they did accuse him of being dishonest in articles all over the place.
Even Dana gave that knowing look like he was full of crap when he was asked (I understand that doesn’t translate to print quotes) but hell, if anyone saw the videos of him asked the questions; he was obvious about the way he answered.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
The point is, as a fan of the UFC and the show I do not want to find out the outcome. I would imagine that a lot of fans feel this way too. Therefore, we’re being deceived for our own good. For the UFC’s good too, but still. And the fact that they lied is not that deceptive because soon we’re going to find out the truth and Dana will be the first person to say, we had to do it. In my opinion they should have stuck to the “no comment” approach, would have made things more intriguing in my opinion.
Luke – I will agree with the premise of the article, that lying is bad. However in this case I have to believe that the parties involved would have told us about the line up change if they weren’t under contract to Spike to keep such details secret.
Are there any other instances of the UFC lying to the media, fans about a line up or is this just an isolated incident related to a non-disclosure contract?
You need help
I’m not writing to “you”. I’m writing my honest opinion with the knowledge that I’m unlikely to convince UFC fans. Trolling? WTF are you even talking about?
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
They're not my enemy
And they’re not my friends. They are who they are. It’s not a pejorative to call UFC fans UFC fans.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
you have to know
that an article like this would create the shit storm that it has. But you also feel compelled to write it. I would have gone insane, by now if I were you.
In response to the article itself, I don’t feel I was betrayed or lied to. I knew something was up and it was only a matter of time before the truth surfaced. I understand the media has to crusade against things like this, but is there really any thing they can do about it? It just seems like White keeps doing whatever he wants and all you guys can do is write about it. But will anything happen? Do you guys want to see something happen?
by sadface on Apr 14, 2010 6:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good questions
Ideally, I’d like the UFC to stop doing this. I’d also like to see the media be careful about how much they go to White for information about sensitive matters. I have very little influence in this world, but I’d feel bad about myself if I didn’t say I think the UFC stepped over the line here.
What happens next? Beats the hell out of me.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
The "what happens next" is what worries me.
Like I said below, this is partially a step towards neutering and controlling the already nervous MMA media.
Dana is the main voice of internal UFC news. Combine this with athletes being unable to speak out (the Fitch incident, Huerta’s freezeout). Managers are in the same boat, protecting their clients and personal interests. Add in that sponsors are constantly on thin ice (RVCA, Clinch Gear, One More Round) and can’t say much of anything other than buy our shit. Now there’s nobody to report on aside from the promotion itself… as played by the Dana White.
He’s essentially given the media no choice but to repeat him or starve. And now he’s made it clear that the MMA media will have to grow like mushrooms; being kept in the dark and fed shit.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
By “UFC fans”, do you mean exclusively UFC fans (fanboys?), or MMA fans in general?
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 14, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Very well written piece Luke,
However in response I really couldn’t care less about the UFC lying
by doonerthesooner on Apr 14, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They were trying to keep it secret for TUF. Shit, I don’t see anyone mad at Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse for keeping the plot of LOST secret.
by Polyhedron on Apr 14, 2010 3:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Probably because they don’t disseminate deliberate falsehoods on their interviews and podcast. There’s a benefit to being coy sometimes.
It’s also a written TV show, not a sporting event.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2010 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions
No…the Ultimate Fighter is not a “written TV show”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Totally justified
I don’t see a problem with what they did. They are trying to keep suspense for the viewers.
With the amount of rumours reported as facts by the press (fedor anyone ?) , all I can say is pot kettle black .
I have 0 sympathy for them if they think they have been taken for a ride by the UFC.
••••••Garbage•••••
Who cares if they lie. It’s got nothing to do with real fights.
This Tito soap opera garbage is NOT MMA!!!!
I’ll watch the TUF episode for the measly 2 rounds of fighting at the end of the 1 hr long TUF drama-fest, but I’m more interested in watching the whole LIVE Bellator card every Thursday night on FSN, and all the great LIVE fights on HDnet.
by justbleed9999 on Apr 14, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really care
but I understand why they lied. Also, I’m just happy not to see chuck vs tito again.
by baswoot on Apr 14, 2010 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
couldn't care less about this fight.
Chucks all but done.
I dont like Rich’s style of fighting.
To me he’s always been a bit boring to watch.
Didn’t want to see Tito either.. i think Tito’s close to done too.
jiMMAy
I see nothing wrong with it whatsoever
This ones becoming one hell of an already beaten horse. Some media is mad they got lied to, mostly us fans don’t care. We realized something was going on behind the scenes because there were so many rumors, waited for the official announcement and called it a day. Pretty sure most fans aren’t butt hurt over this
Consider yourself warned, im offensive and creative like handicap porn
by II SMASH II on Apr 14, 2010 3:57 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
some media outlets are mad*
Consider yourself warned, im offensive and creative like handicap porn
by II SMASH II on Apr 14, 2010 3:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The media is certainly more upset over it than the fans. The fans are the final consumer, but the media is part of the “supply chain” and if they report something, told to them by Dana, and that turns out to be false, the media’s credibility takes the hit.
Fans are pretty much always willing to forgive DW (I’m guilty of that myself) but people do tend to hold grudges against media sources. No matter which side of the political fence you’re on, one of the cable news stations is probably beyond “redemption” for you. Some people dismiss everything Kevin Iole writes because of his rep as a UFC shill, even if it’s an excellent piece about a non-UFC fighter.
Point is, once a media source gets a bad rep, it’s damned hard to fix.
by woomikee on Apr 14, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I wont be mad at BE at all
They reported what they knew at the time. Can’t blame them for that
Consider yourself warned, im offensive and creative like handicap porn
by II SMASH II on Apr 14, 2010 4:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
not to mention every article about it had disclaimers in them talking about how white might be full of crap; so like I’ve said, both sides knew what was happening in the game already
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
In the end I got a better fight out of the deal. All I had to do was wait a little bit
Consider yourself warned, im offensive and creative like handicap porn
by II SMASH II on Apr 14, 2010 4:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
A lot of what passes for media in the MMA world is really small time bloggers who may have nothing more at stake than the crappy old computer they run their site off of and their made up name. If their credibility is shot they really haven’t lost much.
On the other hand if you are the sports end of a large media conglomerate you have a lot at stake. A shot to your creadability can be very costly. That leaves a lot less room for forgiveness in the established media than there is at joe-bobs mma news. The problem is the UFC needs the big media outlets if it ever wants to grow up to be one of the major sports. The media has the choice to not just decide whether to report a story but how to report it. The media also has a long memory. DW may think it is just a game now but it may bite him in the duff down the road.
I think the point everyone is making is that this isn’t the first time and the effect is cumulative.
- They are counter-programming Strikeforce. Oh, wait, we made that up.
- We’ve been talking to Fedor. Oh, no I guess not.
- Winner of Hendo/Bisping gets a title shot. Oh, no. Changed our minds.
- Tito vs Liddell is definitely happening.
The effectiveness of Dana is that he is able to get his message – the UFC’s message – out to the masses. But sooner or later he becomes the man who cried wolf once too many. At which point, even accurate denials will be disregarded. I would think he’d want to protect his position as the trusted source of UFC information better than he has.
by John Nash on Apr 14, 2010 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
“The effectiveness of Dana is that he is able to get his message – the UFC’s message – out to the masses. But sooner or later he becomes the man who cried wolf once too many. At which point, even accurate denials will be disregarded. I would think he’d want to protect his position as the trusted source of UFC information better than he has.”
UFC is trying to run a business and part of that is control information to the press and generate interest in their product. The fans are welcome to believe what they want.
BTW – Did anybody think they would actually counter strikeforce ? And yes they did talk to Fedor. At the time I remember (I could be wrong) Dana saying if Bisping won then he would get a tittle shot, but not Hendo as he had already fought AS and lost just recently.
They never specifically said they were countering the strikeforce fight night.
And a couple of those are changed minds, not lies. Which we might not like, but they are allowed to do and it is a different thing.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
I not only never saw him lie about it; but also saw him asked about it and he said “no, he never said they were putting on a show for that date”
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
Dana White confirmed today via text that UFC has completed a card for April 17th. The Wanderlei Silva vs. Yoshihiro Akiyama match is not the main event. The only thing confirmed is they are trying to finalize a Matt Serra vs. Mike Swick semifinal fight today.
http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/12519/124/
From Dave Meltzer.
by John Nash on Apr 14, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't forget all his Big Announcements and TV Deals.
I think I’ve been conditioned to prepare myself for disappointment anytime a Big Announcement is about be announced.
wow
i had no problem with this when i was only thinking in relation to the show. i, in fact thought ithe whole franklin angle was all an elaborate swerve to drum up more attention for tito who would ultimately not dissapear and still fight chuck.
but
if they were selling tickets to liddell/ortiz 3 and knew that fight wasn’t happening, that is truly unacceptable. they should offer full refunds to anyone who bought tickets before the truth came out. replacements happen, but a ticket is a contract purchased in good faith that the ufc will attempt to provide the show they’re claiming to provide. if they were purposefully misleading ticket purchasers this is indded very wrong.
oh, but by the way, dana, total straight shooter man. you can trust every word out of his mouth. rolls eyes so hard chile feels aftershocks
Before tickets went on sale the Liddell/Franklin fight WAS officially announced. Before that they hadn’t announced any fights on the card.
then it's not really a big deal
and we should expect things like these. though i’d say this was one of the ufc’s more concerted efforts to lie. usually it’s just d. white. i guess i gave them too much credit, i genuinely thought it was all a ruse to get people to watch and see how tito gets “kicked off”.
It wasn't like they went out of their way to lie
They got confronted by the media who had learned spoilers on the season and they had to protect their investment. I don’t see a problem with it whatsoever. They didn’t sell us something based on the lies, so I could really give two shits either way.
follow me twitter.com/GotaHemmi
by Brian Hemminger on Apr 14, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
"It wasn't like they went out of their way to lie"
Lying to AOL, Sports Illustrated, Yahoo, on the radio (Chuck lied on my station 106.7 The Fan) and on Twitter through not one but THREE different speakers is the very definition of them going out of their way to lie. If that isn’t, nothing is.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Did you really want them to spoil what would happen on a taped show? Cmon man grow up and get over it, the UFc was only protecting their pre-taped show
They sure did spoil it when they did make the announcement didn’t they? Given that last night’s episode sure did focus on Tito/Chuck, and they were still coaches…
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
At this point I'm just annoyed at everyone in the Dana White Vs. The Media situation.
David Price is better than your top young pitcher.
It’s one thing to have Bud Selig or David Stern “lie” to the media, it’s something a little different when a fight promoter does it. I know that’s kind of a weak explanation but when it’s all said and done, he’s in the entertainment business. Moreover, he’s in an industry which thrives on drama, something in which he’s never short of.
Kinda like Vince McMahon?
Actually, that’s not altogether accurate. WWE is a Publicly-Traded company, so their public disclosures are accountable to the SEC. So VKM actually has more credibility when speaking to the media than Dana White.
i don't appreciate the extent to which they tried to sell the lie, ie. twitter
no offense to luke or anyone on this site, but as luke pointed out in the article, if luke (for instance) is hounding dana for an answer, he may lie on the spot. thats forgiveable to me (i know, double standard). but when he goes on twitter and responds directly to a question he wasn’t being asked at the moment… thats intently lying to an audience he never had to directly answer to.
count me on the “doesnt like it” column
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Apr 14, 2010 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
If they put on good fights I'll continue watching...
If they don’t then I won’t. Simple as that for me. It’s a business, they have interests to protect. Do I like it? No, but I’m not pissed about it. To me the most important thing is that they put on interesting, relevant fights. If they have to lie to do it, fine. But at the end of the day if they don’t put out a good product it doesn’t matter what’s going on behind the scenes and with the press.
It’s about what happens on fight night, not what Dana White said to some blogger at some point before or after the card.
I’m curious what the “right answer” should have been for White in this matter? Should they have spoiled the show and come out and say that Ortiz wouldn’t be able to fight? It’s not like anyone could have gotten tickets in the first place.
the right answer was
“watch the show and find out”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 14, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've signed dozens of them
and a non-disclosure agreement is just that, an agreement not to disclose anything. What is he’s disclosing by saying “no comment” or “Better watch the show then, huh”? Nothing, except that something might have happened and you better watch the show if you want to know what it was.
yes
if people are asking a question they know you cannot answer, then really any answer other than the one he gave gives away the fact that something is indeed up with the situation
and everyone involved is aware of that
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
that still gives people the indication that something is up; especially with specific questions like some of the ones that were asked
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
lol, ok man; it’s pretty obvious to me
considering everyone practically knew the truth even with the lie
not much of a stretch to consider that if asked “Is Franklin replacing Tito on TUF?” an answer of “no comment” practically is a confirmation
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
What gave them an indication something was up
Were the reports – now all true – that the UFC was planning to do a Liddell vs. Franklin main event. Hence, the questions.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
I thought initially they UFC was attempting to say it would be a Couture vs. Franklin fight being talked about for that time period and that was supposed to give them a cover for having Franklin in the mix and buy them a few weeks before the show aired. But people started thinking him fighting Couture didn’t make much sense, that Couture wasn’t supposed to be fighting then, etc. Which then led to the other stuff and instead of people just reporting the odd facts and their thoughts; they started asking questions that they knew Dana or the fighters could not answer.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
it would be like if today someone went and asked dana if the reports were true that fedor was on the next season of TUF (which he isn’t). dana might respond “you’ll have to watch the show and find out”. he gets the interest and doesnt have to tell the truth. it works both ways. the only important thing is, it draws interest to avoid answering a question. did i have gay butt sex with a dude last night? … (now you’re not sure) … (but no, i didnt)
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
The problem is you guys (media) aren’t gonna be happy no matter what he does, unless of course they told the truth in the beginning in which case there would be million dollar lawsuits filed. “Watch the show to find out” would never be a good enough answer for a journalist or even a blogger.
by ufc4 on Apr 14, 2010 4:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m glad to see you’re confidently telling Nate how Nate will feel and think about issues.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Well I was speaking of media in general and like it or not the founding editor of one of the biggest mma blogs on the web is gonna get lumped in there. I realize Nate doesn’t often operate within the general confines of mainstream media but that doesn’t mean BE isn’t part of the machine.
by ufc4 on Apr 14, 2010 5:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not saying we all would've been elated...
…with “no comment”, but it would’ve been a hell of a lot better than just not telling the truth and telling those who feel like they were lied to to “get over it”.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
I am not so close to the situation and I just a fan rather then trying to make a living from it but sorry I really do want to say ‘get over it’.
He is a promoter, the way I see it he is doing his job. If somebody had leaked details about a product that my company make I would have lied about it if asked.
At the end of the day, its up to you if you wish to speak or trust him in future.
that’s just what I was going to post.
I can’t come up with an answer to the question “will chuck fight tito” that isn’t either a lie, “no comment” or spoils TUF (and you can argue that “no comment” or watch the show to find out is sort of a spoiler, and we don’t know what the non-disclosure agreement looks like.
That said, I don’t get why they made such a big deal about saying Tito will fight Chuck at 115 if they were going to put tickets on sale the day before the episode where Tito leaves.
I think they’ve handled this situation poorly, but I’m not going to get upset about the host of a TV show lying about the future of that show.
Yeah
I wondered why they went to all the trouble of not spoiling the show, but then went and did it anyways. Why didn’t they just sell the tickets a week later.
Deeper issue
I think this relates to a deeper issue that every reporter would like to get the jump on a story. When you are talking about events months away does anybody really care if the news is 24 hours late ?
You're right, there is a deeper issue
Which is some fans contempt for MMA media, which I don’t fully understand. When media talks about credentials or “Fibgate” you can see a inordinate amount of media bashing. Who helped grow the sport of MMA and spread the gospel when outlets like ESPN and major print wouldn’t touch it with a ten-foot-fountain pen?
It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.
by Jesse Holland on Apr 14, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
it's not just the media
it’s also the fighters.
Dana has hyped himself as the personification of the UFC to the fans and they will attack anyone he tells them to.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
The only people this affect's is the "hardcore" fans
I’m not trying to argue it’s right or wrong but the fact is the majority of the fans wont care at all.
I had a “casual” friend ask me the other day about this. Said he had heard that Franklin was replacing Ortiz on TUF and asked me if I knew any details. I told him Franklin was replacing Ortiz but details were still scarce but Ortiz was in the hospital at 1 point so maybe that had something to do with it.
He said ok, cool and we went on to talkin about other things, he didnt stop me and say "so your tellin me Dana lied to us? WTF? "
Again hardcore fans care about everything mma and I’m not sayin that’s a bad thing but when what a lot of hardcore’s think is a “huge deal” I would still say about 75% of mma fans dont care.
NO
this has a dramatic impact on how Dana White and the UFC and MMA is perceived by the mainstream press.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Personally I consider MMA and boxing promoters the same. Sharks who are trying to put bums on seats (or PPV buys). This is why I will always take Dana with a pinch of salt and thus this incident is not going to bother me.
Reality is what effect has it had on my enjoyment of TUF and MMA, pretty much none except I much prefer Liddle vs Franklin over Liddle vs Ortiz.
I also have to say we don’t know why Ortiz is not in the fight (has anybody been able to confirm this ?), it is possible that he didn’t make it to the end of the season but he was still going to try and make the Liddle fight ?
A big issue here is Dana doesn't respect the MMA media
And really, there isn’t much to respect. The sad fact of the matter is that good journalistic sites like BE are the anomaly rather than the norm. Most MMA news sites amorally post lies apologetically. Unfortunately good journalism isn’t good business. Dana can see this and doesn’t really respect MMA journalism at all. He sees nothing wrong with lying to a bunch of liars. The problem is this hinders people like Luke Thomas and Ariel Helwani from ever making MMA journalism something to be respected.
by Neil Manich on Apr 14, 2010 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Ha!
See above. You’re painting in broad strokes.
Dana White wants to be seen as a legitimate sport by mainstream media — but they don’t consider MMA a real sport — which is ironic since Dana won’t credential blogs — because he doesn’t see them as real media.
It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.
by Jesse Holland on Apr 14, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Honest question: Do you think Spike put the muzzle on them about revealing that Tito was out? Considering how much was leaked about the previous season with, could Spike make the coaches and fighters sign waivers stating that they can’t say anything about what happens?
The UFC kept the secrets of an already filmed reality show secret, so as to not spoil the months of filming, millions of dollars spent, and suspense built into this season’s reality show.
I don’t think it’s anything out of the ordinary for reality shows.
there is a huge difference
being obeying the non-disclosure deal — ie by saying “watch the show” or “i can’t say” or “no comment” and saying “Tito will fight Chuck”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I don't have a problem with it at all
But Dana could still benefit from learning how to use a judicious “No Comment” from time to time.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
No comment wouldn’t cover his ass when Sherdog reported Franklin was fighting Chuck and Tito was not. The only way he could refute it was to blatantly lie to everyone.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Apr 14, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
A more Dana-like version of a "No Comment" there would be:
“What the fuck does fucking Sherdog know about anything?”
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Why do we assume that some of the media were not complicit?
Is it too far-fetched in this media climate (in which a 24 “news” network exists as the propaganda arm of a political party) to consider that there may be people who knew the truth and actively worked with the UFC to promote untruths and therefore lend validity to the lies? The assumption that the media were played and that they should cry and complain sounds a bit disineguous. No MMA fan should assume the news- particularly “breaking” news- they get from online outfits is unbiased. The cozy relationships certain “journalists” have with Zuffa should shed doubt on this “lying” meme.
There's a WAMMA belt in my Cracker Jacks!
Tweeting @dmiller23
"cast" not shed doubt... fail.
There's a WAMMA belt in my Cracker Jacks!
Tweeting @dmiller23
To protect TUF 11 which cost millions? um...yeah it's ok.
BE is becoming the new Sherdog.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 4:21 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe I'm missing something here
but it doesn’t really matter to me if Dana lies or not. I treat Dana like I treat politicians: he’s gonna say whatever he needs to in order to protect his product. Sure, repeatedly lying is gonna have a snowball effect where eventually people won’t believe a word Dana says, but let’s face it, a decent portion of MMA media are weak and will do what they need to do to stay credentialed. Same with MMA fans – there’s a good portion of MMA fans that take Dana’s word to be bible truth and will defend him as such, even when he lies, cause Dana has successfully made himself out to be a man of the people, the personification of the average dude.
I don’t know if this is good or bad for the UFC or MMA in general, but what I do know, is that Dana has successfully managed to get keep people talking about two past their prime fighters (Liddell and Ortiz) that no one cares to see fight again for the third time, coaching on a show that has long served past its due date, all the while a free Strikeforce event is about to play on CBS with two title fights. Like I said, I don’t know what long term effects the lying will have, but so far it has worked out for the UFC.
I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP
by pud333 on Apr 14, 2010 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Nice post. I guess I would like for the majority of MMA media to NOT be weak and the majority of fans NOT to follow Dana blindly like some cultist leader or the masses.
I also don’t care that Dana lies. I care that he continues to be given a free pass for lying by the fans. I care that a known liar has so much influence over the MMA media/fans/sport etc.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Apr 14, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Luke Thomas likes to know the ending of movies before he watches them.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 4:24 PM EDT reply actions
really? thats the second diss at this site and its founder. you own a different site you’re trying to draw attention to or something?
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
Do you have a timeshare on Luke Thoma's nuts or what?
I have a right to say he’s wrong and that the stories posted lately are “what wrong with the UFC #532,636.”
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Alas, there’s no timeshare on my balls.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Apr 14, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
me and the wife were trying to figure where to go on vacation this year… i was banking on you luke.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Apr 14, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If there was you could make bank bro lol set it up
Have any shares with a good view?
Consider yourself warned, im offensive and creative like handicap porn
by II SMASH II on Apr 14, 2010 5:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Luke is interested in this sport's development and growth.
Personally I have no issue with how Dana White handled this situation, but since ESPN probably does, Luke has a valid point. However your posts of protest are not. You tend to stick to inflammatory comments less dense than Styrofoam which, ironically, makes this place a lot more like Sherdog.
do you know the difference between lying and non-disclosure?
here, let me clue you in:
lying = making a statement that you know to be false
non-disclosure = NOT revealing what happened on TUF
there is nothing in any non-disclosure agreement in the world that could compel someone to LIE.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 14, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I gotta rec’d you for your effort of trying to explain the obvious point of the article. Go get em Nate!
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Maybe it's time we asked more of the media.
What happened to investigative journalism. When did journalism become disseminating press releases?
This conflict of interest is obvious and yet media use Dana’s comments as fact to the exclusion of what was being said by other sources. Maybe this will change things.
Dana does not approve of investigative journalism unless it is investigating how awesome the UFC is. MMA journalism became disseminating press releases ONLY as soon as Zuffa started controlling access/credentials. The media who automatically take Dana’s comments as fact are Yes men who live in fear of his wrath or too dumb to know better. I don’t really see anything changing unfortunately.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Apr 14, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I say fight fire with fire. Sherdog is attached to ESPN, why not splash across the ESPN home page ‘UFC revokes ESPN press credentials!’. Make it a story and see what happens. I would expect the press to spin it into a ‘MMA will never be mainstream with this attitude’ sort of line and it would put massive pressure on the UFC to change policy.
For those who are fine with what Dana did because he didn’t want to reveal any “TUF spoilers”: What about when he lied about Henderson vs. Franklin 2? He came out and said they scrapped the bout because of the poor fan reaction, when the reality was that Henderson turned down the bout and it was never on to begin with. In the end, Dana was rewarded by the fans for lying to them, and the truth was largely ignored by the outlets that reported the lie.
Smoogy is right about this
I believe I blogged it at the time. let me find some links.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I’m having some weird problems that are making it really difficult to make GIFs. I’m not sure what the problem is, but for the last month or so almost anything I make has been crashing the software I use. I’ll see what I can do, but the Okami fight is a WMV and those are usually the most finnicky to convert and process.
dang,
it foiled Nelson too.
I just want to show the world that Okami really brought THE THUNDER against Linhares.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Try these:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/4/4/1404767/the-week-in-quotes-march-28th#33791480
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 14, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to clarify
Wasn’t the real reason Henderson turned down the fight and it was scrapped is because he and the UFC couldn’t come to terms on a new contract?
That’s what I was gonna say, of course the bout was never on, Hendo didn’t have a contract.
by ufc4 on Apr 14, 2010 5:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Silva fighting Sonnen
Dana white just said on Jim Rome that Anderson Silva will be fighting Chael Sonnen.
As a fan of MMA
I don’t pay that much attention to what Dana says, he will always say something for the good of the UFC brand and truth is not always good for business.
I'm with all the people who don't think this is a huge issue
it’s one thing to be selling the product (tickets) under the false guise of one fight, and then changing it. But immediately when tickets became available for sale, the tune changed and the truth came out. How were they supposed to give the details when legal contracts could’ve prevented them from doing so?
In my mind i’m much, much, much more upset that a creep like ben roethlisberger is allowed to make millions of dollars still and not be in jail because he can hire a scumbag attorney than at a person who’s protecting his products best information by possibly deseminating false information.
I think you right incredibly well Luke, but in this case, its a little mishap that is probably due to legal entanglement, and doesnt affect a single person, in any possible way.
THIS IS A COMPLETE CANARD
there is NOTHING in the TUF non-disclosure agreement that forced Dana to LIE. He was obligated to not reveal what happened, but he was not obligated to actively lie and say the Tito vs Chuck fight was on.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 14, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anderson vs Sonnen is next folks.
I can’t wait for Sonnen to sell this fight.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 4:54 PM EDT reply actions
Ugh. Now it sucks that Sonnen won because it's yet another guy with harmless stand-up
That’s 3 in a row he’s been given to defend his title.
I just know Dana’s empty threat won’t phase Anderson that much. Five more rounds of dancing.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
He lied to protect the storyline of a silly TV show. He did nothing to undermine the credibility of the sport. Let me know if he lies about a positive drug test, or something along those lines.
he undermines his own credibility
Jesus fucking christ people, do you not get that Dana White is establishing a reputation as someone who will blatantly and knowingly lie to the media and the fans, on the public record DESTROYS his credibility. He’s desperate for mainstream acceptance (which is why he’ll credential bloggers who cover football but not bloggers who cover MMA and know enough to call him on his bullshit) but he’s sabotaging himself here.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 14, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Get over it Kid Nate. The majority of fans don't agree with you.
Put a poll up.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Why don’t we put a poll up on GOP sites asking if Obama sucks and Reagan rules? Or maybe we can go to a Klan site and ask if minorities are inferior to see how the results come back? I wonder what they’ll say. Those groups definitely don’t have biases or views on issues.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Apr 14, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
WTF? Fans that don't agree with you are like the KKK!
Defensive much buddy?
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Your post was absurd so I posted something to push your buttons. haha.
You’re saying fans that don’t agree with you are UFC nuthuggers.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
He doesn’t have time to read he’s a freaking snake charmer for god sake
by DayGeaux on Apr 14, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
If you guys are so disgusted with UFC and it’s fans, why report on it? There are plenty of other MMA sites out there who are reporting UFC. You don’t need to write 10 articles on Dana White and Anderson Silva in the week leading up to a Strikeforce fight.
Who cares? Isn’t that Dana’s concern? Why get worked up about it? I didn’t care or believe him in the first place. The guy isn’t lying about WMDs Christ’s sake. This is goddamn reality show.
by Krumpenstein on Apr 14, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
My point was simply that if Dana lies he hurts his own credibility in the media. People will be less liable to believe him. I can’t see directly how this affects anything. I would need a concrete example to even begin to care. Again this is a media concern not a fan concern.
by Krumpenstein on Apr 14, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Look, while the two points seem unrelated, Luke and Nate are a couple steps a head in this game of chess. Lets take a gander at the facts.
1. Dana White is the face of the UFC
2. UFC vies for main stream attention
3. Dana White lies and loses credibility as a source of information, perhaps even more
So possible fall out may include…
4. Main stream new outlets are wary of the Dana White, and by extension, the UFC
Do mainstream media outlets even report this shit? NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN? I don’t think so. All this shit is very niche. Nobody notices. I guarantee most fans didn’t even know a thing about this.
by Krumpenstein on Apr 14, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
So you’re implying that since Dana lied he doesn’t care about the sport?
by ufc4 on Apr 14, 2010 5:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Do people not believe Bud Selig anymore after MLB did its best to cover up the use of PED’s in the late 90’s/early 00’s?
by ufc4 on Apr 14, 2010 5:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Tons of people
are pissed at baseball for covering it up. In fact congress doesn’t even trust Bud Selig because they are investigated it themselves.
The average baseball fan may not have a clue if Bud Selig played a role in the cover-up, but they do understand that the sport they love was tainted by those who lied.
Baseball is an interesting comparison – the fans don’t like all the drama of steroids, they just want to focus on the game. However, I think they’d all agree that more truth-telling, especially by those who run things, would mean less drama.
It helps if the hitter thinks you're a little crazy. - Nolan
by Trei Brundrett on Apr 15, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps part of the issue here is that we have a reality show and results thereof so intricately intertwined within the trappings of what is a SUPPOSED to be real sport.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Apr 14, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m totally bewildered why you’re so worked up about this. Nothing that happens in the MMA world is hard news or matters at all. This isn’t Watergate. Dana may have squandered a little goodwill with a few small time websites and hurt his credibility but that’s about it.
dana controls an industry
and millions of dollars and hundreds of lives are impacted by his actions.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
time for you to fill this out Kid Nate.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
You're really poking that "don't piss off the mods" stick aren't you?
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
a healthy debate is good for everybody.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Their mind is set on this one. Nobody can get them to change their view.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Soooooo why are you arguing with them, then?
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
And boy is it ever an intelligent one.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
You're following it aren't you.
i’m amused by how worked up they are by the whole thing.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
no. i'm just trying to understand why they're so mad.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't understand your reasoning.
So I’ll leave it at that.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
ok dude. I was just saying that they’re making too much out of this.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I’d love to understand how Dana lying does anything other than hurt his own reputation. Does this hurt MMA? I don’t really see how. If someone can make a case for it than I’m in on the Dana hating.
by Krumpenstein on Apr 14, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Rome also asked White about a couple of other issues, including lying about the upcoming Chuck Liddell-Rich Franklin fight.
That’s a pretty fucked up answer
whoops
His answer
“The people who feel like they’ve been lied to? Too bad,” White said. “Get over it. It’s a reality show, and oh, well.”
Dana White to the fans "Eat Shit and Like It"
The Fans: “Thank you sir, may we have another?”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 14, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That’s a little histrionic. Dana’s sentiment was simply that anyone who is overly invested in the minutia of a reality show that they feel betrayed by his lying should get over it.
by Krumpenstein on Apr 14, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much
I wouldn’t expect him to say something like that especially since he still has something to make up to the fans
So the better option would be, completely bury the lead on the Spike show, piss off their cable TV partner and tank the ratings of the TUF season.
All for the sake of not upsetting some websites that already don’t like Dana White or the UFC particularly.
Sounds like smart business to me.
Dana White can easily just say "wait and see"
If he said that I wouldn’t be nearly as disappointed over say….the UFC to network TV debacle.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
Is it wrong of the UFC to lie?
Sure, but it’s a fucking reality show. It’s not like some ground shaking industry changing untruth.
I’ll save my outrage for the lies of promoters when it actually means something.
The Hills people lied to me. I didn't get over it for weeks.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's the thing for me
Luke and Kid Nate are right in that Dana is wrong, and there really isn’t any defending it BUT at the end of the day, who really cares? If it comes out that Dana has been saying he’s been meeting with Fedor’s people and it can be proven conclusively that he’s not, that’s a lie that would bug me. Shit like that actually has some kind of impact on something.
This?
Quite frankly I’m happy to see Franklin fighting Chuck instead of Tito and while I don’t condone it, I can at least understand this lie.
Dana and Fedor 'talks' thing.
It’s the same as what Silva does to his opponents with his psychological mind games. He’s just fucking with Strikeforce.
by snakecharmer1340 on Apr 14, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
*yawn
This isn’t the one guys.
Maybe some time in the future Dana White will do something to truly damage the UFC and the sport and prove you right; but this isn’t the one.
you're right... obviously some people do
but again… *yawn.
I’m glad they get paid… not sure what that has to do with it.
I’m glad they get paid… not sure what that has to do with it.
Its the whole point of the article, btw, did you read it?
Guys like you think an article critical of the UFC means that the writer has a personal vendetta or a bias against them. Maybe you don’t understand how the media works.
you’re talking about the article at the top of this page right?
I thought the point was that Dana White lying will significantly damage the ability for the UFC, and therefore MMA, to be accepted by the mainstream media.
You need to calm down, relax… take a breath.
Guys like me? Don’t be so presumptuous friend.
Guys like you… think that a comment that doesn’t agree with an article critical of the UFC means the commenter is a fool who must only be disagreeing because he is biased towards the UFC.
You like how that felt? Sounded idiotic didn’t it?
I thought the point was that Dana White lying will significantly damage the ability for the UFC, and therefore MMA, to be accepted by the mainstream media.
Yes, last time I checked members of the media were professionals who got paid and as the article pointed out, there are members of the mma and mainstream media taking issue with DW’s antics.
While you’re “*yawning”, actual professionals in this business are taking issue with DW’s lack of professionalism. You think his over-the-top ranting about “one guy” at HBO is doing him any favors in regards to how ESPN views him? Not to mention his constant need for ego feeding diatribes.
Your whole first statement and *yawning kinda make it easy to be presumptuous. You give the impression that its Luke’s or BE’s mission to prove that the ufc is damaging mma. This is one, well documented, very relevant issue with many implications. The fact that you can *yawn about it illustrates a short-sidedness and perhaps a lack of depth.
Its easy to be flippant, but don’t be cry when someone reads into your *yawning.
UFC 117 is going to be in Utah apparently.
Of all the places….I’m going to have to get used to MMA in Utah.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
Thanks Luke, I told you I'd reply eventually.
While not surprised, I can’t honestly say I didn’t feel a little insulted by this move. Not personally, but as though Dana actually thought of all fans as being so dense that we wouldn’t catch on.
Hyperbole and to some extent dishonesty are par for the course for Dana, and we’ve all spoken about needing to filter promoter speak and the truth from each of his soundbites. The MMA media has had to be a leader in that as the mainstream media is not as carefully attuned to the nuances of each statement or the MMA culture. They need to be guided because quite frankly, they have other fish to fry.
Outright lying is a new trick for Dana, and that’s what this was. This wasn’t some mouthpiece shouting that Fedor is irrelevant because he [has sloppy technique, won’t fight the best, fights freakshows]. He clearly and deliberately misrepresented the facts, and he’s done it unrepentantly to both the media and the fans directly.
This is not the end of the world. It’s not the end of the sport or the UFC. It’s not even the end of an era. But it’s troubling. Between revocation of Sherdog’s credentials and now the fear of outright lies, the MMA media is being systematically neutered. Anybody who claims this is a non-issue was wool firmly pulled over their eyes.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Apr 14, 2010 5:56 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
If Bob Arum announced he was running Manny Pacquiao/Paul Williams in June, and tickets were on sale Friday, but on Thursday night before tickets went on sale, Top Rank released a poster showing Manny Pacquiao with Nate Campbell, people all the way over here, who’s biggest experience with boxing was Bart Gunn/Butterbean, would demand his head on a platter.
The UFC did that. And the fans don’t care. You know what I take from that? The fans will accept anything happily. If that’s the case, I guess it makes sense to never do anything critical at all. Maybe the guys who are getting indirectly/directly supported by the UFC have the right idea.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 14, 2010 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
yeah
we’re tilting at windmills here and we know it.
But WTF at night when I go to bed I’m proud of what we do.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
You guys are probably better off not gunning for the guy that’s running the show. Dana’s not perfect but he’s our best hope for making MMA a mainstream sport. Best to just get behind him.
by Krumpenstein on Apr 14, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh really?
Yelling guy who curses like a drunken sailor and leaves wildly offensive rants about reporters on youtube is a better hope for MMA being mainstream than the professional, clean cut guy who has fights on network TV this weekend, and has been promoting combat sports for over two decades? Get right outta town!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
you really don't understand the concept of constructive criticism do you?
Perhaps I may suggest you read a tale called “The Emperor’s New Clothes”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Here is an idea, don’t buy the freaking tickets then. However if he announced on monday after the tickets went on sale then I would be demanding my money back.
The idea is to lie as long as possible and confuse the public. Would tickets have sold as fast as they did if they announced 3 weeks ago when they knew Tito wasn’t going to be able to fight at UFC 115 that he was out? Who knows. Maybe it didn’t matter. I’m guessing they thought it did.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 14, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I also seem to remember a certain poster on BE saying last year that he would help lie for Dana to get Fedor signed to the UFC. Funny to see that now in this context. Which was a truthful statement? That, this, or both?
I wasn't willing to lie
At least I don’t remember lying. If so, please point it out. I’ll apologize here on the spot.
And ultimately, I regret the notion that I was willing to in on a certain kind of coverage. That was an example of making a mistake on the job. It hasn’t happened since and will never happen again.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
I just looked it up
We published a report that I had independently verified, so it was true (inasmuch as I could ascertain with two sources). I said I was willing to “be a pawn” if it meant getting Fedor vs. Brock signed. So, that’s bias, not lying.
And like I say below, I’ll NEVER make that mistake again.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Pawns are typically willing to lie. It shouldn’t be an option.
And, just for the sake of argument, how did that report that you commented on end up turning out? Was it 100% honest, or a half-truth made to look a lot better than it was?
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 14, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll never know about the report
But generally when i get two reliable sources to confirm the details I run with it. I’ve never seen the actual contract, so I have no idea what it actually says, but I’m comfortable with the due diligence.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
If you’re fine with it, I guess that’s your choice. I noticed that Jonathan Snowden had a report about it not long after with more details about the contract and what the real values were, and that Meltzer ended up backing it up later. Looks to me to be that the reports were a half truth put out by the UFC to make them look good. I think deep down you know that too.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 14, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I let the story go after a short while. You’re right, I probably could’ve and should’ve followed up more.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
The repercussions of that obvious propaganda campaign are still reverberating around here. How often do we still read members replies starting with “he turned down the big money because he wanted to fight cans?”
Zach Arnold did a pretty good summary of that:
http://www.fightopinion.com/2009/07/30/the-activist-campaign-against-fedor/
by John Nash on Apr 14, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It really hit me how much power Dana has over the traditional MMA media. The fact that he can say something like that (Rome quotes) on a nationally televised program with no fear of any backlash means that he knows the vast majority of fans will agree with him anyway and any kind of uproar from the MMA media won’t mean a damn thing. Like someone said above, the real true test are what his actions will be if the major outlets start to cover MMA instead of the Sherdogs, MMAManias, and BE’s of the internet.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
If the lying was related to the reality show I don’t think too many people were taking it as “truth” to begin with. I’m all for truth in media, but A TV show needs it’s secrets. Anybody watch Lost?
"Negative, negative. I gotta stay lean and lightning and ready to fight." Capt. H.M. Murdock
In support of Dana
Was anyone really shocked here? Was anyone offended? Were you all like, “Oh. My. God. How dare they! I can’t believe they lied to me”? If you were… get over it and grow up. If you don’t have enough common sense to realize that someone (UFC) who has a monetary interest in promoting a reality show (TUF) will lie to its viewing audience in order to keep the suspense (for only a couple of weeks at that)… well… I really don’t know what to tell you. But in the future, if it looks like a duck (pictures of Chuck and Rich on the TUF wall), walks like a duck (Cincinnati was the next venue option), and quacks like a duck (rumors everywhere, next episode is a “shocking” surprise, etc.), it’s probably a duck. Get a kleenex. Move on.
by scottwgiblin on Apr 14, 2010 7:21 PM EDT reply actions
LYING
What other “sport” needs to trick its fans into watching it and paying for it..with blatant lying?
His lying doesn’t affect me. Seeing right through Dana’s BS caused me to stop ordering ufc’s long ago. Me not being affected by it and being able to ‘get over it’ doesn’t mean its OK and is ignoring the problem.
Dana’s lying isn’t good business. Its not his job as a promoter.
Promote does not have the same definition as the word Lie.
I’m tired of hearing talk about everything Dana has done for the sport which is 1.) ancient history and now .. 2.) is just a banner he stands under while he fleeces every last fan he can for every penny as if he’s gonna flee in the middle of the night. Its ridiculous.
I dont like being treated like I’m stupid in any scenario. What if car dealers told you that you’re buying a Hummer but once you buy you find out its really a Ford Pinto in disguise. Would you say ..haha – they got me with good business!!!
Because Dana’s fleeces you for $55.00 – 110.00 per/month, rather than 50k at once, doesn’t mean its less offensive.
Keep being a Dana Sucker, defending him and giving him all your money. You help his plan work perfectly.
jiMMAy
Look up the definition of "promote"...
Promote (in pertinent part) = to support the further progress of…. He promoted the show. Loosen up your panties.
by scottwgiblin on Apr 14, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't see Lie anywhere in the definition so what's your point?
I bet you used to promote to your mother all the time. just silly.
jiMMAy
Dana’s job as a promoter is to promote fights. Which is what he did. Get over it.
by scottwgiblin on Apr 14, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Who the hell was tricked into anything, the people who were going to watch TUF will continue to watch it regardless of Tito or Franklin.
Trust me for everyone that is butthurt over Dana and the way he acts there are hundreds more that love his management style and will continue to shell out money for the best mma in the world.
“Trust me for everyone that is butthurt over Dana and the way he acts there are hundreds more that love his management style”
Everyone, say hello to the suckers who pay $55 for mediocre fights helping buy Dana his 11th Ferarri.
Go Genuises!!
jiMMAy
Isn’t it a bit unreasonable to ask Dana to predict the future?
by scottwgiblin on Apr 14, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Look..
Just keep putting money in Dana’s pocket and patting him on his back.
And, I’ll save my money and not waste it on hype and BS
jiMMAy
No you look...
Fine with me.
Btw. Who puts together better fights than UFC?
by scottwgiblin on Apr 14, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This is one of the absolute most ridiculous things to be outraged over I've ever seen...
Literally. No hyperbole. Let me summarize this outrage, outrage that you’ve handled fairly well, but Nate has basically flooded the river Nile and called down swarms of locusts about.
A promoter contracted by a reality show doesn’t tell the truth about the outcome of a reality show.
Seriously, is this a legitimate concern that people are surprised in the slightest? On top of all of that these faux concern trolling insinuating that all Dana White and company had to do was simply say no comment and move on.
Yes. That would have solved all the problems and wouldn’t have given away that there was a change at all. Let me call your attention to a specific pertinent fact. Dana White isn’t a politician, he isn’t some tabloid fodder, he’s a guy known for telling you the answer for literally anything you ask him. Can you name a single other question that Dana White has ever said no comment to, or hell, can you name one that Tito has ever said no comment to? I’m hard pressed to think of a single one. Ever.
But yeah, simply having two of the most forthright loudmouthed people in the sports business respond no comment would have definitely not indicated that there was a change in the show at all.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
I seem to remember Dana White saying...
“He may never fight again.”
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
Which was entirely true.
Had it killed him, he wouldn’t have fought again.
Had it crippled him, he wouldn’t have fought again.
Had he just decided to spend more time with his family since having a near-death experience, he wouldn’t have fought again.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Apr 14, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
"A promoter contracted by a reality show doesn’t tell the truth about the outcome of a reality show."
And this isn’t even correct. It’s the main event of a UFC fight in the future which was lied about. Not the results of a reality show. If you’re going to disagree, please get the facts right first.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
No one lost any money. How does this really affect anybody?
by scottwgiblin on Apr 14, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana White
has damaged his reputation by openly and flagrantly lying to the press and the fans.
We’re writing this stuff because we care about Dana White and the UFC and don’t want to see him fuck up any more.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
obviously
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 15, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
While I understand your position, I disagree. I don’t think he has damaged his reputation by keeping up the facade of Chuck v. Tito III. He is a promoter and he promoted the show. While he did lie and God will probably strike him down with bolts of lightning for breaking a commandment, it’s ok with me.
by scottwgiblin on Apr 14, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I ask that you do the same good sir.
No one bought tickets under false pretenses, no one. So since no tickets were sold to a show it’s hard to play the outrage card on a fight that wasn’t even being sold yet. That’s like getting outraged if they never make the Miller v Lawler fight they’ve talked about, but sold zero tickets for.
Also, every single portion of the reality show is part of the results/outcome for a reality show. Simply because they aren’t fighting as part of the show, doesn’t change the fact who the coaches are is a very important part of the show, and a large part of the draw. This is an argument of semantics and I think Dana’s survivor analogy was apt, and to take it a bit further. It would be just as big of a blow to the show to find out that X contestant was dropping out half way through Survivor well ahead of time. Yes, Ultimate Fighter is about finding talent, but the coaches are a heavy draw.
To put it another way, let me ask you a question. Do you think seeing Tito coach against Chuck has more draw, or less draw than Franklin against Chuck? I think the answer is obviously for Tito v Chuck since they have a history of bad blood, and have already shown it in the first two episodes.
I could see outrage if Dana was flipping out and issuing take down notices to sites, and ripping peoples media credentials and whatever else for speaking about Tito possibly getting replaced, but he didn’t. I just don’t think this level of indignant outrage is justifiable for this incident, and this is coming from someone that generally thinks Dana is way too iron fist with the media.
No comment/Silence would have had the exact same impact as confirming the rumors when it comes to Tito/Dana.
Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com
He can’t revoke people’s press credentials again if he already has before or won’t hand them out to begin with.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 14, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
1. No comment is better than lying. Is it really hard to understand this concept?
2. Dana’s words are one of Media’s staple food. When served with garbage, I expect that they atleast voice out they wont eat that shit again.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
It’s all well in good to mouth the hollow cliche that “honesty is the best policy” but when you have money wrapped up in a reality show, and a camera man leaks photos that could possibly destroy your ratings can you fucking blame the guy for dancing a little?
by Krumpenstein on Apr 14, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Its not like those pictures broke the story did. Sherdog did. Then again, Sherdog doesn’t get press credentials, does it?
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 14, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Another fine point. Quit dogging the guy running the show that can fucking make MMA mainstream. Dana and the Fertitas have done more for this sport than anyone. Why the hell would you want to call the guy out over some small time bullshit like this? It’d be one thing if the guy was fixing fights or covering up a steroid scandal but this is peanuts.
by Krumpenstein on Apr 14, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t be in the least surprised if he had serious knowledge of the latter and does nothing about it (a commission thing), to be honest.
by VirtualBalboa on Apr 14, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
This is such a fucked up attitude
"Dana and ther Fertitas have done so much for this sport that they can do whatever they want as long as it isn’t a huge deal to me"
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2010 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
No.
i love the way this site in particular pick out the worst parts of interviews by dana, and make it look out of context. you make shit sound worse than it is, he was talking about why he couldnt tell the truth, but i guess you forgot to put that bit in huh. i sense a lod of dana white hate coming off bloody elbow. as much as i love your site, shit like this makes me want to visit it less.
by JohnnyT2010 on Apr 14, 2010 9:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
then visit it less...
I’m not being a jerk. But if you don’t like the way we cover things…don’t come here.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2010 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions
not being a jerk? then why tell me to visit your site less for expressing an opinion? professionalism buddy, show it.
It’s not a matter of professionalism. I’m saying…if you don’t enjoy how we cover things…we’re not going to change. So if we’re not what you’re looking for. Find somewhere that does cover things in the style you’re looking for.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you know, in all truth, i dont want to go “find somewhere that covers blah blah” this is in my opinion the best mma site out there. the only gripe i had was i always see it rip dana white and i just dont get it. i mean rarely is there a positive article on him or what he is doing, if most of us fans can understand why he “lied” why cant you? am i saying dana is right? no. but i understand his reasoning. anyways im not trying to rip or whine im just stating “my” opinion which im entitled to. and to tell someone hey we dont liek your opinion, so go elsewhere, to me? is a lack of professionalism. you cover everything just fine for my liking, just let me have my opinion without telling me to politely fuck off elsewhere. k?
by JohnnyT2010 on Apr 15, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t WANT anyone to leave. I mean, that’s not our goal.
I didn’t have a problem with your opinion. I just have problems when it comes across as someone wanting us to alter how we cover stories or else they’ll stop visiting. That’s what I thought you were implying and while our coverage of White may upset you, it’s not going to change.
So if you were implying that the idea of our coverage makes you want to come here less I was just trying to get across “this is how we handle our coverage, if you don’t like it then there are other sites”
It really was not intended to be dickish at all and I apologize if you took it as such.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
probably should have worded my first post better also, i apologise for coming off the way i did too. thanks for taking the time to reply.
by JohnnyT2010 on Apr 15, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
look at it this way
Every time we do a post about the UFC that isn’t critical we’re supporting Dana White. The ratio is about 10:1 in terms of positive vs negative pieces.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 15, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
I think that is what confuses people. When something is going well for the UFC it’s usually a quote from Dana and a headline and story about “Good thing in UFC” when there is something bad the focus tends to go to Dana because he’s “the voice” of the promotion.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I wonder how he took this wrong.
" then visit it less…
I’m not being a jerk. But if you don’t like the way we cover things…don’t come here."-Brent Brokehouse
Dana did what everyone would do in his position. I don’t see the point of more bad press for him. Did you really want him to spill the beans? This is way too much coverage over nothing.
GSP(ESP) is the most predictable fighter in MMA.
I’m not going to read through the entire comments because…I just don’t have the time or energy. But from what I did read people seem to be missing a few things.
1) There was no NEED to lie. They could have said “no comment” they could have said “you’ll have to watch the show and find out” or they could have said “our intention is to make Tito vs. Chuck happen.” Anything but “tito/chuck is definitely happening”
2) I am the guy who is constantly reminding people to take promoter’s words as “promoterspeak.” This comes from my time covering boxing. LYING is not promoterspeak. Overselling the value of fights and fighters, misdirection, and making people see what you want to see…that all falls under the umbrella of a promoter being a promoter. Lying just makes it impossible for the media to take things you say as credible going forward.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2010 7:53 AM EDT reply actions
Then don’t take what Dana says as the truth. He has proven many times that he will say one thing and do something else later. I don’t see how this is shocking for anyone and why everyone is so hurt about this. So you are mad they didn’t handle this situation how you wanted them to? Well you can see Dana doesn’t give a shit, so you have two choices: 1. Keep cry about it and asking for Dana to change ( I wouldn’t hold my breath) 2. Get used to Dana “lie” or using pormoterspeak and take everything he says with a grain of salt.
Did people really thing he would ban any fighter from joining the ufc b/c they were on EA’s MMA video game. If anything Dana gets overly dramatic about how he is feeling and makes statements that cant be backed up, or yes are lies, but for the most part he has good intentions and does a overall nice fan friendly job.
by Darren Watkins on Apr 15, 2010 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re….really completely without understanding of the difference between scripted TV shows and UFC 115.
You’re also not able to come to terms with the idea of “no comment” or any other media handling strategies being better than a straight up lie.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
um no we would not have
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Apr 15, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely not...
As I said earlier. I’ve been covering MMA and boxing in some capacity for over 10 years now. I would have probably said “Dana saying no comment certainly doesn’t rule out the possibility that Franklin is in for Ortiz, but at this point it’s just speculation.”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
In other news, Dana has said Tito will never fight again in the UFC. Twice.
Later turned out to be a lie.
He also said he would never sign BJ again or deal with the Penn family again. Later it happened.
The thing you fear (Dana’s loss of credibility) has already happened. He isn’t credible. Anyone who has followed the sport for any length of time knows Dana is completely and utterly full of shit.
How damaging has this been to the UFC brand and product? Debatable. It’s impossible to know if they could be doing even better if he always shot straight with the media. But pegging this as the straw that broke the camel’s back in terms of losing him trust with the media/fans is overstating the case, thinks I.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 15, 2010 1:55 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Luke, well done, I appreciate article of this nature that hold individuals to account for manipulation. It saddens me to see some of the responses to this thread are so accepting of misrepresentation, lies and child-like behavior by Mr.White…but, sadly, it echoes the state of affairs in this country today. A lot of folks these days just don’t care that they are being lied to and treated like idiots. Several comments before someone stated that all people in positions of authority tell lies and that it should be accepted. Ideas like that are not worthy of much and it is that sort of acceptance that leads to docile masses bowing to every silly thing they are told….
The presumption going into a season of TUF is that the 2 coaches will fight each other at the end of the season.
Alluding to anything to the contrary is giving away a major plot point in the show, which Spike didn’t want the UFC to do.
The UFC only did it when they absolutely had to in order to sell tickets for the event. Big deal.
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