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Why Aoki Will Succeed... as the Last Chance for Japan

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There are two ways to look at almost every situation. With your heart, and with your head. 

My heart wants Japanese fighters to have success in America. I used to live there, I trained alongside a lot of Japanese people, and I like them.

My head tells me they never will--the average ones, at least--until they submit to the rigmarole of weight cutting and putting some serious time into training in the States.

There is one more thing, though. Rarely does an American promotion poach a Japanese fighter at the top of his game. 

Star-divide

Takanori Gomi was taken apart with clinical coldness by Kenny Florian at UFC Fight Night 21. But when was Takanori Gomi last--really--relevant? From the beginning of 2004 to the end of 2006, Gomi dispatched a who's who of top lightweights. Jens Pulver, Tatsuya Kawajiri, Hayato Sakurai and Mitsuhiro Ishida. Since then, his career has been hit and miss, and the Fireball Kid has lost some fights he probably should have won. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling Gomi washed up or finished or Campbells just yet. My point is, if the UFC had have brought Gomi in four years ago, the fight may have been a different story. And I'm not making excuses for him, either; Florian won the fight by being a much better fighter. It's just that Gomi can't really be touted as still being one of the best lightweights in the world when there are a number of years between his best performances and now. 

Caol Uno, too, lost his fight at UFN to a guy who sounds like a Brazilian steak; another apparent nail in the coffin for Japanese fighters. But I don't believe it. Uno, much as I love him, was already having trouble with the new breed of fighters back when K1 was running the HERO*S shows. He has been fighting for 14 years (despite still looking like he should be wearing a blazer and eating from a tray at lunchtime). He was the Shooto Welterweight champion 11 years ago. A legend he may be, but the next big thing he ain't. 

As Mike Fagan noted in his post, the combined record of the Japanese fighters who have gone to the USA is 5-9-1. Pretty poor. But who are they? 

Nakamura, Gono and Chonan were nothing more than top-middle tier fighters in the first place. Akiyama had potential but threw away the support of the industry by screwing over Sakuraba. Misaki could be a force to be reckoned with but has not been consistent enough recently. 

Aoki Shinya will be a different story, mark my words. 

He is the first Japanese fighter who we can legitimately say is at the top of his game. His recent opponents have, for the most part, been high calibre fighters who have put him to the test. His submission game is leagues above that of any of the other Japanese fighters to venture onto American soil. His striking, while not perfect--and not deserving of the praise he himself heaps upon it--is coming along. It certainly does enough to enable him to put his real gameplan--ripping people's limbs off--into action. He doesn't have the deathwish that other Japanese fighters do, either. He won't seek out punches with his face, doesn't subscribe to the yamato damashii--death before dishonour--philosophy that many other Japanese fighters do (much to their detriment.) 

I think Aoki will win in style against Gilbert Melendez, and then he'll cry a bit, and then all will be right with Japanese MMA, for one night at least.

 

 


The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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great article

all I can say is as much as I love Aoki’s style I don’t think he’ll beat Melendez. I just don’t see Aoki getting it to the ground, unless he pulls gaurd. I’m in the same situation as the Gomi fight, heart with Aoki but head with Melendez

I <3 Hardy

by KingAtRock on Apr 1, 2010 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

I also wish for the success of Japanese fighters. But Melendez is going to crush Aoki.

by Grappo on Apr 1, 2010 3:01 PM EDT reply actions  

wow?

how do you figure? Aoki’s BJJ is just insane, its the most aggresive style of jits i have ever seen. he is good enough on his feet maybe not to stand toe-to-toe with melendez but certainly put up enough defense to get the fight where he can implement his fierece jitsu. and i promise you it will be insane, aoki will smoth melendez. before you know it melendez will have one arm trapped in a body triangle and his other arm in the process of being ripped off and/or being choked out. these are just facts.

by Rocejize on Apr 1, 2010 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

these are just facts.

I retract my previously stated opinion, since you seem to have the facts.

by Grappo on Apr 1, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It is easy to look insanely good when you’re opponents are not at the same caliber that the top 5 lightweights in the UFC are. I don’t know enough about Melendez other then his recent fights on Strikeforce but from what I saw I would consider him in the lower top 10. I don’t mean to sound like a UFC nut hugger but IMHO from watching both organization’s fighters there’s a noticeable difference in skill level.

by YoungGun on Apr 1, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

overall

i completely agree. but some people to me stand outside the mediocre pack.

Fedor ( he WAS/is amazing, i just want him in UFC so we can see what really happens)
Gegard Mousasi ( favorite non-UFC fighter *badr hari is close, but that’s k-1)
Shinya Aoki
JACARE!
Ubereem ( minus the horsemeat diet he wouldn’t be good )
Jake Shields ( i hate wrestlers, but he is good)

i mean these are very few among many non-ufc fighters that i think stand far above the rest of the pack. my opinion. if anyone has any extra fighters to add as your favorites let me see them, cause i am always looking for far-and-away talent.

by Rocejize on Apr 2, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hendo?

Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)

by ludakrish on Apr 2, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

I always think Pride which instantly translates to UFC… but yes for sure Hendo is on that list.

by Rocejize on Apr 2, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

some of my favorite non-UFC fighters that have yet to be mentioned

Hector Lombard
Brett Rogers
Eddie Alvarez
Ben Henderson
Donald Cerrone
King Mo
Cung Le

What's up my little chicken pot pie?
Even though your face is huge, I love the shit out of you girl.

by JimCrankshaft on Apr 3, 2010 5:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

April Fools?

"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi

by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 1, 2010 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

The only april fools is that I forgot spell check exsisted before I hit post.

by Rocejize on Apr 1, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

iyho?

i trust your opinion because I like all the articles you write, so. Please give your unbiased opinion of Aoki vs Melendez

On a side note, aside from BJ Penn. Sotiropoulous is my favorite lightweight.

by Rocejize on Apr 1, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

No problem. Aoki has so undeniable skills, but the blunt truth is, he isn’t well rounded at all. The chances of Aoki getting Melendez to the mat is slim, as he is a decent wrestler, and strong for a lightweight.

I can’t see anything but Melendez picking him apart on the feet, avoiding a clinch at all cost, and eventually getting a TKO. If it hits the mat, it’s not all said and done either, Melendez can scramble like a champ, and trains with other great grapplers. I would love to see Aoki succeed in America, but I think he is a huge underdog here, and at the time, doesn’t stand much of a chance.

Can’t get much more unbiased than this, I couldn’t give two shits about Melendez as a fighter, and find Aoki’s ground game to be thrilling to watch…but I think he’s going to get shut down and sent back to Japan beaten and busted up.

"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi

by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 1, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed. Honestly the claim that Aoki would do anything but flame out in the states is all but too ludicrous for my mind to fathom.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Apr 1, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Aoki will beat Gilbert Melendez.

One thing that gets overlooked is speed- Aoki is very, very fast. I think sooner or later he’ll get it to the ground and find a limb.

by TLow on Apr 1, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

If thats his gameplan, then thats proof enough that he’s not ready to step up to the level that American MMA is at.

"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi

by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 1, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Demian Maia outstruck Jim Miller. Who the fuck has Aoki outclassed on the feet?

"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi

by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 1, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh well never mind then, I guess he’ll be running right through Gilbert Melendez. /sarcasm

"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi

by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 1, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Fair enough, and I’m well aware of how the match with Shaolin went, but Aoki did nothing to show me anything the makes me think he can come in and be as dominant as some thing. I hope I’m wrong, Japan needs a fighter here in America making a name for himself, but I think it’s going to go down painfully for him.

"The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things." - Miyamoto Musashi

by Kaleb Kelchner on Apr 1, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The talent drift goes this way—- if you wash out of American promotions, you go to Japan. You wash out of Japanese promotions, you’re in for regional shows or done entirely

I can’t think of any evidence for this claim with respect to the lightweight division, and I don’t think it’s this simple in general.

Caol Uno had mixed results in DREAM, then came to the UFC. Same with Jason High. Neither one is faring too hot right now, but you can’t say they went from struggling in Japan to the regional level either.

by JRN on Apr 1, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chase Beebe, Maeda, Sokodjou, Caol Uno is probably going to be heading back so that’s not exactly a great counter example… Nakamura, Alessio, uh who else? I have a few faces but I can’t remember their names. All I know is that when a dude washes out of the WEC or UFC, there’s a better than decent chance I’m going to be catching them on some Dream or Sengoku card sometime soon.

"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.

by toxic on Apr 1, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

None of the people you named are lightweights, except Uno. And Uno going back to Japan won’t change the fact that he came to the UFC in the interim, in violation of your categorical statement about talent drift.

by JRN on Apr 2, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I guess dude. I’m not proposing a general law of physics here, just making an observation. You haven’t really established why lightweight is so different from every other weight class either. I don’t know how Aoki would do against Melendez, but then again winning the strikeforce lw belt ain’t exactly going to prove Japan’s MMA superiority.

"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.

by toxic on Apr 2, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lightweight is different because it never experienced the same consolidation of talent that other divisions, like heavyweight and light-heavyweight, went through post-PRIDE. I figured this was just common knowledge. Most of the main lightweight players from Japan stayed in Japan until very recently.

In any event, I’m not arguing that Japanese MMA is superior, only that we don’t yet know it to be inferior w/r/t lightweight.

(PS: Gomi is another example of the talent drift working opposite to the way you suggest at LW.)

by JRN on Apr 2, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

History lesson

Can some please tell me why Aoki and Gomi havent fought yet? Is it just a matter of coincidence and the promotions they were fighting for?

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Apr 1, 2010 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

"Is it just a matter of coincidence"

I would say so. Timing.
Near the end of Pride Aoki didn’t have the hype (even if he was at the time one of my fav fighter) to take on Gomi for the belt. As far as I can remember, Gomi vs Aoki talks emerged at the begining of 2007 when Aoki gogoplatad Hansen. But it was too late, Pride already had their plans for their US show and then fell apart.
Gomi choosed Sendoku and Aoki choosed Dream.
The fight really could have happened if Gomi had suceeded in Sengoku because of the Sengoku Champ vs Dream Champ matchup at Dynamite!!

by bawzz on Apr 1, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would have been epic if that happened. Thanks bro for the response.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Apr 1, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

While I’d love to see Aoki in the UFC, I don’t think he would do too well, especially if he fought against BJ.

But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a stick - Proverbs 10:13

by Ominous on Apr 1, 2010 8:26 PM EDT reply actions  

I haven't followed Gil's career as much as I'd like to have

But I have a lot of interest in any Cesar Gracie-trained fighter. I know Gil’s “only” a purple belt, but how good is he on the ground, exactly? Cesar doesn’t exactly give the belts away over there.

by Tedd Welch on Apr 1, 2010 9:01 PM EDT reply actions  

He has One huge problem he can’t take a punch !

by troquezz on Apr 1, 2010 11:36 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope you’re not talking about aoki (or Gil for that matter!). If you are, go back and watch his fights against JZ and Lo-A-Njoe. At worst Aoki’s chin is reasonable. And please dont tell me that getting rocked by mach’s knee is evidence of a weak chin.

by GeeDub on Apr 2, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i compare the japanese lws and the ufc lws to the ufc hws and pride hws from a few years back

pride back had the dominant champ, fedor ufc does now bj

the ufc has a great group of talent, kenny, maynard, edgar, so did pride, nog, crocop, barnett

japan has some good fighters who people compare to but dont stand up to the ufc guys, aoki, gomi, kawajiri, hansen, so did the ufc with sylvia, arlovski, and couture

not a perfect analogy but i think it gets the point across

by milk72 on Apr 2, 2010 12:42 AM EDT reply actions  

Um, actually I'm a bit confused.

Are you citing today’s Japanese LWs or the Japanese LWs from the past? Gomi is in the UFC now. Hansen fights at FW now.

Otherwise, yes, the UFC has the undisputed #1 LW in the world and arguably stronger contenders at LW, Pride had better contenders and the undisputed #1 in the world in their HW division, even if the UFC had a few good fighters. Couture was not one of those guys however, as he was fighting at LHW or retired for most of that time period, and only came back to beat Tim Sylvia mere weeks before Pride officially announced they were folding.

by Chromium on Apr 2, 2010 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

PANTS!

Aoki can not where his fancy pants in North America. Part of the reason his ground work is so good is because of the grip his pants give him allowing him to better control his opponents. I think he still has what it takes to submit people, but those pants have always given him an extra advantage that he will not be able to count on this time around.

by macrazy on Apr 3, 2010 1:29 AM EDT reply actions  

I think that angle is a little overblown to be honest.

"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy

by Benicio on Apr 5, 2010 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

aoki dispelled that rumour

I interviewed him for Fighters Only. He says the pants are just for fun.

Be water, my friend.
http://www.scramblestuff.com (Imported Japanese MMA goods!)
http://www.thegrapplingdummy.com (my Blog)

by Martial Farts on Apr 3, 2010 4:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Even if the tights are the secret to his success...

…he could still wear the ankle supports, knee supports and cycling shorts combo as sported by Sotiropoulous for similar effect

B-A-K-A-S-U-R-V-I-V-O-R

by Mattyjudo on Apr 3, 2010 6:00 AM EDT reply actions  

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