Is April 17th Strikeforce's Last Stand on CBS?
Dave Meltzer breaks it down:
MMA is at best marginal programming on CBS. The last Strikeforce show drew 39 percent lower ratings than CBS usually does in the same time slot, but it still has value to the network because it skews far younger and more male-oriented than usual Saturday night fare. It gives the network an outlet to attract sponsors who aim at the hard-to-reach male 18-34 demographic.
The April 17 show is a test, because if it does well without proven draws Emelianenko, Slice or Gina Carano, it's a major feather in the cap of Strikeforce going forward on the network. That is probably why UFC is looking at countering.
...
It should also be noted that UFC and Strikeforce do not draw from the same audiences. The Strikeforce events on CBS draw an older audience in general than the audience that watches UFC, which relates to CBS's generally older demographics. The cities where Strikeforce does its best television numbers have little similarity with the markets where UFC does its best pay-per-view numbers.
And MMA Payout brings it home:
Meltzer essentially captures the plight of the major networks have with MMA: whatever audience they gain as the result of MMA television is offset or surpassed by the audience they lose. Thus, at what point do they sacrifice their existing audience for something new and shiny? This is especially true where Strikeforce is concerned, because it doesn't have the brand equity or star power necessary to pull in an 18-34 year-old crowd capable of really making it worth a network's while.
...
Nonetheless, the importance of this show cannot be understated: if the ratings tank, it could very well mean the end of Strikeforce on CBS. The flip side, of course, is that Strikeforce has the opportunity to solidify a strategically important distribution channel for itself moving forward; the kind that would provide it with enough exposure to further build the equity of its brand and its stars.
Strikefrorce CEO Scott Coker literally finds himself between the devil (Fedor and M-1 Global electing to sit out the April 17th event) and the deep blue sea (CBS and Showtime and their need for big time network ratings). CBS exec Kelly Kahl claimed that they "were being nice guys" by not counter-programming WEC's PPV on April 24th, but I think it's more likely they didn't want to counter Showtime's Super Six boxing tournament on that date.
One way or the other, I think Strikeforce may have struck out on CBS unless Dan Henderson vs Jake Shields suddenly becomes a fight of great interest to casual fans.
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fedor is poison. fedor was 0% part of strikeforce’s business model before they signed him. before they signed fedor, strikeforce wasn’t at odds with the UFC. fedor demands the highest salary at strikeforce and has a 0% success rate at making a promotion go from low level promotion to nationwide or even world wide successful promotion.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
That last part isn't completely true
though it is difficult to gauge if those solid rating for the first show were because of Fedor or because it was MMA on network tv. It would have been easier to gauge if he fought again on CBS so you could actually have some data to work with. It is fair to say that Affliction’s buy rates were directly based on his drawing ability among the hardcore fan base, but as far as a legitimate commercial draw, the jury is still out. He just sinks promotions because his fee is higher than his drawing power at this point.
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by Matthew Roth on Mar 8, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
the jury is absolutely still out on what affect he will have on strikeforce. i’m saying strikeforce’s problems all began with fedor. they invited the counterprogramming from the UFC, the high fee fedor must have, the “questionable” business practices of M-1, all in exchange for what? in a strict business sense what did they get? has he proven to make the promotion he fights for better or worse businesswise?
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
The only think that I think they get out of Fedor is the ability to say we have the best heavyweight in the sport. Regardless of if he ever fights for them again, they can say that the UFC isn’t the majors because we have the best heavyweight of all time.
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by Matthew Roth on Mar 8, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
but does that tagline cause profitability against its cost? i would have to say no.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
I’d have to agree with this. Having the best heavyweight is cold comfort when he’s forcing you to compromise your business model, something Zuffa acknowledged by not signing him.
by Worldisart on Mar 8, 2010 12:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
I agree with this, sorry i was eating lunch so I didn’t address the original point. Having that tagline is great, but when you completely change your model it doesn’t really help. Look at it this way, the WEC just had its 47th event, Strikeforce, counting the Challengers shows, has just hit 28. It didn’t grow naturally like the WEC, it kinda forced its growth because of major signings. I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t last to the end of the year. That’s not me being defeatist, it’s being realistic. I don’t think they have the staff to sustain the growth they are trying to create.
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by Matthew Roth on Mar 8, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think you’ll ever see Strikeforce dissappear completely. I do think you’ll see it return to being a strong regional promotion ideal for fighters not quite ready for the UFC, journeyman fighters with some name recognition and fighters well past their best before date.
by Worldisart on Mar 8, 2010 12:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Madiq's point was that Nate misused the word "literally".
Scott Coker is not literally between the devil and teh deep blue sea, because that would require he be between the devil and the deep blue sea. The parenthetics Fedor and CBS futher demonstrate that Nate is speaking figuratively, not literally.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Fedor is a proven draw? Really?
He was new to the US for the last show. The vast majority of veiwers proably had never heard of him aside from the couple 30 second commercials that aired during the football games.
Or the 24/7 show that hyped the fight beautifully.
Or do we forget that happened, and likely did wonders for his image in the US?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Did it do more to buid his name than a season of TUF and a similar show will do for Hendo?
I am guessing probably not.
Broader exposure on a network
and a focus solely on him and Rogers, rather than a house full of personalities much larger than Hendo’s own. Not to mention you’re throwing out a huge fucking straw man. I said it wasn’t just ads, and you counter with “But Hendo got MORE exposure!” I call shenanigans.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I said a show similar to the 24/7 about Hendo in addition to the exposure he already has
Probably won’t struggle to match the exposure Fedor received. An American fighter who is former Olympic wrestler shouldn’t be a hard sell.
Heavyweights sell better.
It’s the thinnest division, but heavyweights sell better to casuals than anybody lighter. LHW sells pretty well for the UFC because it’s a much thicker division and still above average sized guys. For some reason, Americans want to see guys who are bigger than them fighting. Not sure how that holds elsewhere.
And before anyone mentions it, the Pacman and Mayweather thing in boxing right now is anomalous.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Ignore the boxing then... Top 10 PPV buy rates, 2009
1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million
Heavyweights main event. Also featured stars GSP, Alves, Hedo, Bisping.
2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million
Boxing
3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon
Boxing
4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Jan. 31, 920,000 buys
Not Heavyweights, no heavyweights on the entire card.
5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000
Not Heavyweights, no heavyweights on the entire card.
6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000
7t. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000
Not heavyweights. Heavyweight co-headliner.
7t. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000
Not heavyweights. One hevyweight bout on the card.
9. UFC 98: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000
Not heavyweights. No heavyweights on main card.
10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys
Heavyweight main event.
The only two events in to top 10, regarless of sport (or sports entertainment), headlined by heavyweights were UFC 100 and Wrestlemania 25. Maybe the connection between Lesnar and WWE is is the common thread.
by truck on Mar 8, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also, I believe
UFC 66: Liddell / Ortiz II
and
UFC 92: Ultimate 2008 (Griffin / Evans with a HW co-main event)
Are thought to be the second and third highest selling UFC events. Neiother is headlined by a HW.
You'll note
that I added that LHW sells for the UFC because it’s a competitive division. And, lookey loo, Liddell, Ortiz, Griffin, Shogun, Rashad, and Anderson (for that fight) are all LHW. GSP vs. Penn is the standout, and that’s because it was a ridiculous superfight. Just because there are two good draws at lighter classes does not debunk a trend.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 8, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Between UFC 92 and the Pending 112 only 3 of the 20 events will have been headlined by HW’s. The UFC obviously don’t consider a heavyweight headliner a need.
Also, exactly 1 of the top 6 events last year were headlined by a heavyweaight.
Meanwhile…
Exactly 4 of the top 6 events were headlined by a lightweight, welterweight or middleweight. Including 3 of the top 4 which were headlined by welterweights or lighter.
Only 1 of the 4 best selling UFC’s ever was headlined by a HW.
If the trend is that fight cards need a heavyweight main event to be successful, the numbers don’t come anywhere near reflecting that trend.
Jeez can you get any more Anti-Strikeforce?!
What? Is Dana White paying you to post these articles?!
Solid write up about the networks and ratings. People seem to think that MMA and Strikeforce aren’t going anywhere because it’s a popular sport, but when it comes to the true popularity and ratings, it doesn’t hold a candle to normal saturday night programming. It just happens to be a way to break into a market that CBS has a very small share of. Fox/NBC/ABC tend to draw better in that 18-34 male demo.
twitter.com/thisredengine
strikeforce will air 3 hours of time slots in a quarter. CBS has 2,190 hours of tv time to fill every quarter. something that only fills 3 hours is a gamble. if it works it works, if it doesn’t it doesnt, there are people clawing at CBS to get air time who claim they can pull better numbers than strikeforce. CBS is a business too.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Mar 8, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with that
but when it comes to the target audience, CBS has the weakest share amongst the major networks. They’re hoping that if they can get 18-34 year olds to watch MMA then maybe that will carry over to the rest of their programming. The fees they are paying Strikeforce are small enough that it’s a pretty good gamble. If it fails, they didn’t invest millions like they would have to with Zuffa and if it actually works out, they make a ton of money for the rest of their schedule.
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by Matthew Roth on Mar 8, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
i agree with all of that. but thats why i agree with the article and don’t think its slanted towards the UFC. CBS doesnt care if they run strikeforce into the ground if strikeforce proves to be unsuccessful for CBS.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
oh i'm fucking around with that first point
People seem to complain that Nate is anti-UFC then they complain that he is pro-ufc…i’m just making a joke.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 8, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Its because of his deep hatred of all things MMA related.
And kittens. The guy can kick a kitten a country mile.


I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Mar 8, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
LOL god I wish I could rec this from my phone
Aqua teen hunger force is probably the funniest show ever
"So I put 2 and 2 together and decided that your pissing me off" "Here. Its a fruit roll up. I was gonna make you a casserole for your loss but uh... I didnt"
"So its sorta like that movie the predator, except for hunting people hes takin a crap" - Carl from ATHF
by II SMASH II on Mar 8, 2010 12:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i agree. i dont know why more people arent into it.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
Atleast one person will get my athf refrences
"So I put 2 and 2 together and decided that your pissing me off" "Here. Its a fruit roll up. I was gonna make you a casserole for your loss but uh... I didnt"
"So its sorta like that movie the predator, except for hunting people hes takin a crap" - Carl from ATHF
by II SMASH II on Mar 8, 2010 1:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hilarious...
but Arrested Development is still better. :)
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
“And it’s all because of you, fratello. That’s Italian for "brother”. Now all I gotta do is find this Hermano guy. I’m gonna kill him."
I just watched that episode last night, it never gets old… :)
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
no, that's josh gross that hates MMA
I really believe he wants to kill the sport with all his co-promotion is the waaaay of the future talk.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 8, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
josh gross is a hack
how the hell can you be an MMA journalist and not have even watched the very last PRIDE show?
by slantedwindows on Mar 8, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
They very last one? eh, it wasn’t great. 33, if you haven’t seen it then kill yourself.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
34 did suck, but let’s face, if it had been produced before the Zuffa sale, Gross would have been all over it.
It was before the deal had been signed, but the deal was imminent.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
I’m pretty sure the deal was already signed.
Zuffa had their ‘Pride Worldwide’ press conference in Tokyo on 3/27/2007 and Pride 34 didn’t happen until 4/8/2007.
great or not, if you considered yourself a journalist, you watched it.
by slantedwindows on Mar 8, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Gross is the one guy in the industry who I actually believe hates the UFC. Lots of people get accused of hating the UFC, but Gross is the one guy who I think really does hate them. I imagine him sitting in front of his TV and watching UFC events (since he can’t get a press pass) and just grinding his teeth down to the gums.
The problem is that MMA's target demographc...
doesn’t like to stay in and watch T.V. on Saturday nights, bars for sure, but not from their houses.
PPV might actually improve the perception of Strikeforce’s popularity simply because it might more accurately capture numbers for people watching PPV’s at some bar that on regular TV don’t quite register the same way.
I don’t know, the UFC isn’t pulling these 500-800,000+ buy numbers they have done several times over the last year or so just from bars, there are plenty of people willing to watch at home if they have a reason to.
by ufc4 on Mar 8, 2010 11:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
True...
but unless i don’t understand something, 500 people watching from a bar looks the same as 1 guy watching from home to network rating tracking.
However, a bar pays a completely different rate for PPV and a ton of bars buying your PPV will bring the numbers up and give you a different idea on the demand for your product.
Just and idea.
not necessarily.
TV Ratings are a complicated beast. They only have data from a sample of people via neilson boxes and diaries, and then they use crazy math to come up with the numbers that get get reported everywhere.
Ok, so then it is even more likely that PPV...
will give a better idea of what kind of interest is out there for Strikeforce.
If a bar is showing a PPV it goes by the maximum capacity of the bar.. not to mention it costs my friend about $600 to order one regardless of how many people show up. So if Hooters can hold 500 people it counts as 500 PPV Buys.
Renzo Gracie: I was doing this when BJ was on his fathers nutsack.
by SerraJitsu0876 on Mar 8, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think the WEC ppv will be a pretty good way to see what Strikeforce will do on ppv. Until we have an idea of what the baseline/max people will spend to see a secondary promotion, we can’t say that is the best route for Strikeforce to take.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 8, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
The bar thing is misleading. In Toronto when the UFC has a PPV almost every bar in the city is playing it and they are all packed. The UFC does better numbers in Toronto on PPV then anywhere else in North America. Now when Affliction was running PPVs there were maybe a handful of bars who ordered it and they weren’t seeing any significant spike in business like with the UFC. It’ll play the same with the WEC and Strikeforce. PPV is a bad market for any org without the brand recognition of the UFC.
by Worldisart on Mar 8, 2010 12:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Shields and Hendo, unfortunately for SF, aren’t really the type to start a war of words. They’ll respond if antagonized but aren’t gonna brew something up just to bring in viewers. That’s a bad sign for CBS as bad blood between these two is really the only hope this card has of pulling decent ratings.
by ufc4 on Mar 8, 2010 11:45 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Watching paint dry is more exciting than listening to Shields or Hendo talk.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
I’m very curious about the order of the fights on CBS. If Shields has his typical fight with Henderson and that’s the show opener they’ll lose the entire audience.
Normally putting 3 titles on the line in one show would be a no brainer… here it might not be such a good idea. Henderson should be fighting Mousasi for the LHW belt and Lawal should be fighting a money weight fight against anyone else. Aoki and Melendez is fine as it should be an exciting fight.
I hate the idea of promoters paying fighters to keep the fight standing (ala Slice/Petrazelli) but the Hendo-Shields fight might be the exception to this.
henderson is bigger and stronger than the guys shields has dry humped, i think henderson will make openings on the ground and allow for more GnP and submission opportunities. i actually don’t think this fight will be boring whether on the feet or ground. the only place i think it could be boring, is if hendo decides to use the clinch and the cage.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
shields is one of my favorite fighters!!!
that being said. Gina Carano has faster hands and more ko power. if this fight stays on the feet jake is cooked. Promoters should never pay a fighter to fight a certain way. They should just pay them to win and extra to finish.
Elite XC
Every time I see something about Strikeforce these days, I just see them sinking more and more into the Elite xc realm.
I feel like Coker is going to regret making these moves and getting involved with CBS. He had a good thing going as a small regional show that could turn a profit.
Dana/CBS is going to sink him before the year is out.
by LtotheK on Mar 8, 2010 11:52 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I do agree...
that I feel that Coker gave up too much control to gain the opportunity to play on the big stage.
does this matter?
SF had a good business model as a regional show. now they are number two in mindshare for US MMA market. Even if they lose the CBS deal, they are still going to continue to provide good shows and good fights. if they lose the CBS deal, they aren’t going to go away. The UFC is doing great without major network shows, they’re constantly dumping world-class talent, and fighters are going to want to continue fighting.
anyone who had delusions of CBS propelling Strikeforce past UFC is silly. This changes nothing in what strikeforce does or who they are.
It’s not about SF going away, but at some point they have to make money. What major revenue streams do they hav right now? Their gate and their TV deal and if one of those dissappears they are in trouble.
by Worldisart on Mar 8, 2010 12:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
they had a revenue stream way before CBS and they’ll have one after CBS.
by slantedwindows on Mar 8, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
They also have more bills since CBS. Fighters like Fedor and Dan Henderson don’t come cheap. If you don’t understand the basic precepts of having contracts to pay out and needing to make money to do that, perhaps this one is a little over your head.
by Worldisart on Mar 8, 2010 1:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think this is the biggest point. I here Madiq and several others always talking about how they can go back to being a regional show, but with all the money they have tied up in contracts (namely Fedor and Hendo) how do they pay these on a regional level and how do they afford to break these contracts without going broke doing it. This leads to we don’t have CBS to pay these contracts, so lets go the PPV route. If that does not work then they may go under ( Chapter 11) because of the cost both legally and financially to get out from under the price of these heavy contracts
I know they’re contracts but I guess I am used to NFL and other major sports contracts where the employer can decide to terminate the contract whenever they want and its really more of a contract for the fighter/player to only be allowed to perform for them for a set amount of time. I am sure there is some sort of early dismissal money that may be owed but if they want to go back to a more regional promotion I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to. Unless they wait until it is too late and go bankrupt.
Part of the reason (at least from my understanding) Affliction went to UFC was because they were able to easily transfer fighter contracts and they would have taken no hit financially from said contracts. I am not sure if anyone saw Fedor and M1’s lawsuit against Affliction for breach of contract and it may never go anywhere, but legal fees add up
my understanding is that M1 co-promotes and takes a portion of the revenues of the show, as does M1. if i recall correctly, he only gets a token amount from SF directly.
henderson… maybe. but their regional show gates can cover that by a good margin. no way they’re putting henderson on a challengers card, he’s gonna be on a PPV.
by slantedwindows on Mar 8, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
If he got such a little sum from SF why would they be holding out and having problems with his next fight. CBS may pay a portion (which from what I understand they do), but what happens when they pull out. The contract still has him signed to SF
you don’t know much about finkelstein, do you?
by slantedwindows on Mar 8, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
insert lame passive aggressive insult to counter yours
by slantedwindows on Mar 8, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
$8000 is an astronomically low number when it comes to revenue streams and as such does not really factor into helping them break even. Most of the fighter’s own their likenesses in SF so they pay them a larger portion of tshirt revenue from a card shirt than most promotions (like UFC, WEC OR even WWE)
People are going to disagree with me...which is fine...
but no, this is not going to be the last Strikeforce show on CBS. It won’t even be the last one before June rolls around.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 8, 2010 12:14 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Are you underplaying the UFC competition impact or expecting a CBS card with the big names on it?
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
There are a lot of things going on. Some I can talk about and some that I can’t.
But basically, CBS isn’t stupid. They know what’s going on. They’re not going to see these ratings and be dumbstruck that they’re not stellar. They understand what the UFC is doing and they also understand that they don’t have an incredible card.
It almost helps Strikeforce to explain away any poor rating number. Much moreso than if they were to go heads up with the WEC. If they go against the WEC on PPV and then were to pull a disappointing number (even keeping in mind the card they’re putting on without much drawing power) that would hurt much more than having an audience stolen by another “free show” put on with a huge draw like Kimbo.
From what I understand CBS is actually more steadfast behind Strikeforce because they feel like they’re getting fucked with.
(braces for a “shitfarce” filled rant or two)
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 8, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
If thats coming from CBS, then great, but it sounds a lot like bullshit. I want CBS to be committed, its great for fans. Both orgs will step it up. But I find it hard to believe that CBS will stick by them more when a show is being doomed by competition. Sounds like you are hearing second hand assurances. I don’t want to speculate what you have heard, nor do I want to push for details, but what CBS is telling SF and what execs think could be different worlds. I would guess there is still a floor at which they pull the rug out from under SF. And with UFC and Kimbo on basic cable, thats a devils threesome working against CBS. The only thing SF has going for it is its in more homes and that will serve to raise expectations.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
I’m not saying they’ll stick by them forever, at some point if things don’t improve they’ll have to cut ties. But I’m pretty damn confident this won’t be the last CBS show.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 8, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
CBS has some commitment to make this work. A consistent Kimbo sized viewing audience would mean huge gains for CBS’s 30-sec buy price. In addition CBS supposedly has some stake in the ppv, so it would be incredibly lucrative if they can build it up to a regular 7 or 8 mil viewing audience of mostly 18-34 males.
Im not gonna bitch rant on you because I know where this intel is coming from…
Ill just say this: 80% this is the last show for coker on CBS and if they have another one 99% that will be the last show.
The Fedor show was a failure because it did not seccure a more robust deal with CBS which was the goal… it wasnt a dismal failure because of the demo gains. This show will be a dismal failure. The next show if they have one will be a dismal failure.
If CBS doesnt cancel it – Coker will have to. They are working on such small margins that Zuffa attacking them at the gate and sponsorships will be devastating. Coker wont even want another CBS show.
Tell CBS to get as pissed off as they want… lol. At the end of the day they need the numbers so they can pony up more dollars to make this work for all parties.
by mmalogic on Mar 8, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Failure is relative. If CBS expects low numbers then great. But at some point they could hit a point at which CBS will pull the plug. Networks will pull the plug on under performing show already in the can, they will certainly do it because they are being crushed by a brand leader targeting them. No matter how confident they seem, its a business they won’t let SF know if they plan to pull the rug out from under them.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
What?!
You mean that Coker is planning to put on another show with Fedor (#1 p4pfighter), Overeem (who is useful as a placeholder for the HW belt), Werdum (who is arguably the best HW grappler in the world), and Brett Rogers (who benefited from the last show and the 24/7 before it)? And he would use that to hype a future PPV starring Fedor vs. Overeem? Madness!
If people disagree strongly with anything you just said, I’ll be nearly incredulous.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I don’t disagree with anything Brent said, but I’m starting to have a real problem with the idea of Fedor as a #1 p4p fighter. Leaving aside the comparative shallowness of the HW division, he’s got to start paying a penalty (at the very least in the P4P category) for his inactivity against top competition.
With guys like Silva, Penn and GSP decimating their divisions to the point that they’re all being urged to move up in weight, I favor them above Fedor on the current P4P list.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Monte Fisto on Mar 8, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
he’s got to start paying a penalty (at the very least in the P4P category) for his inactivity against top competition.
Huh?
Fedor’s last three opponents were all ranked in the top 10 at the time they fought Fedor. Arlovski was easily in the top 5. Had Barnett not pissed radioactive, Fedor would have four consecutive fights against top 10 opponents. Nobody in the UFC HW division can make a similar claim.
That may be a reasonable argument to keep him atop the Heavyweight rankings, but not the P4P rankings. To be the top pound-for-pound fighter you need to clean out and dominate your own division, something Fedor hasn’t done since the Pride days.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
Additionally, I think there is some real issue with "ranked in the top 10 at the time they fought Fedor..."
There has been a clear trend that Fedor’s opponents seem to miraculously rise in ranking leading up to their fights with them, almost as if Hardcore MMA fans are trying to will them to be more competitive matches for him than they already are. The big exception, in my mind, is Arlovski.
Nice strawman.
Sylvia, Arlovski, & Barnett were all ranked for AGES prior to being announced as Fedor’s next opponent. Rogers also rose up the rankings prior to his fight with Fedor being announced, though he hadn’t been there long.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Fedor has been fighting cans, or that he somehow doesn’t deserve the accolades he’s received, just that he doesn’t have much of a claim to being the current best P4P fighter in the world.
The fact that there’s even an argument about whether he’s still the best in his own division — a division that is widely, and correctly, considered to be the weakest in MMA — makes it impossible to call him the P4P champ.
There are at least three fighters operating in MMA today (GSP, Silva and Penn) who have utterly cleaned out their respective divisions, to the point where it doesn’t even seem competitive anymore. And two of those divisions (LW and WW) are arguably the deepest in the sport.
I guess I’m fine with people saying that until he loses or retires, Fedor is the #1 heavyweight, but I don’t see how he’s even in the discussion for P4P best right now.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Monte Fisto on Mar 8, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is exactly how i feel.
Well put.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
There are at least three fighters operating in MMA today (GSP, Silva and Penn) who have utterly cleaned out their respective divisions
By including Penn, you are proving you have a UFC-centric view on things. BJ has in no way, shape or form ‘cleaned out’ the LW division. Penn hasn’t beaten any of the great LWs outside of the Zuffa umbrella, just like Fedor hasn’t beaten any of the new blood in the UFC. Of course, the difference is that Fedor has beaten the same old school guys (Big Nog & Cro Cop) that the new blood are making names off of.
Claiming Penn has cleaned out the LW division and then turning around and saying Fedor hasn’t cleaned out the HW division is laughable.
Just checked … Penn has beaten exactly ONE guy in the top eight of the BE rankings. Cleaned out the division indeed.
You ever think that there are all not there because of how badly Penn made them look. Penn has taken on the best challengers avialable to him just as people claim Fedor has. Difference is Penn is seeking challenges (ie GSP and WW) where Fedor is currently playing games and picking opponents, see the whole current mess with his rumored May fight and whether it will be in Dream vs Barnett or in Sf vs Werdum because Overeem isn’t a woirthwhile opponent).
He hasn't been offered Overeem yet.
Coker doesn’t want that until the end of the year, and after Alistair gets one US fight. M1 wanted him to test clean before a fight. The plans and conditions like up perfectly. Don’t try to shit on Fedor for mythical offenses concocted out of nothingness.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 8, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I am not saying he did not take the fight or was ever offered it, but yet why is Vadim calling him a steriod bully in an interview and saying they are not interested in fighting him. The incident you are refering to was two weeks ago. Vadim’s interview about not wanting to fight Overeem was last week.
I think Penn has demonstrated greater dominance, over a tougher division, than Fedor, at least in the past 2-3 years, but even if you toss Penn out of the P4P argument, what about GSP? He’s surely cleaned out the top of the WW division.
Silva (my pick for the P4P crown) has beaten the number 2 in the world three times during his title run.
When was the last time Fedor took on a legit #1 contender?
I’d like to reiterate that I’m not bashing Fedor at all. I’d love to see him in more fights, more often against the best guys. But I don’t see how he lays claim to the P4P crown.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
i have learned that when brent talks (types)
we should listen. Dudes rarely wrong.
i like reading your posts man but why is it that you ONLY post on articles when its UFC versus whomever? im just curious
Jeez
Strikeforce fell apart even faster than EliteXC or Affliction.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 8, 2010 12:23 PM EST reply actions
A bit premature with the obituary IMO
by Steve4192 on Mar 8, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Are you saying Fedor already works for the UFC?
Double agent? The plot thickens….
by HappyLittleTreez on Mar 8, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
If someone can help me out here because I just don’t see how Fedor and M-1 were responsible for killing off these promotions? I can see reasons well outside of M-1/Fedor why PRIDE, Bodog, and Affliction went under.
In the cases of M-1 and Affliction, they were both forced to over leverage themselves because of Fedor.
by Worldisart on Mar 8, 2010 12:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
MMA Payout somewhat misses the point here:
Meltzer essentially captures the plight of the major networks have with MMA: whatever audience they gain as the result of MMA television is offset or surpassed by the audience they lose.
The audience size is not what matters here. It’s the demographic. The 18-34 male demographic is a big deal to CBS because 18-34 males spend a ton of money, so (many) advertisers are willing to pay more for a 30-second ad when it reaches 18-34 males than if it reaches an older demographic. Also, ad rates are often negotiated based on number of viewers and demographics, among other things. Even if the total number of viewers is much lower than usual for CBS on a Saturday night, MMA can still be more profitable than regular programming if the increased ad rates (because of MMA’s demographics) offset the decreased viewership.
One big problem that Strikeforce ran into here is that it waited far too long to announce the show and lost a huge opportunity to get a lot of free publicity… the Olympics. I don’t care that it was the winter instead of summer Olympics. Dan Henderson is a former US Olympic wrestler, and CBS/Strikeforce should have put him on every sports show possible in between Olympics coverage hyping his fight with Shields. Hendo is also a nice enough guy that he would likely be embraced by the audience watching Olympics and drawn in new viewers, reaching a new – or at least wider range of the existing – demographic. As it is, they should still promote the show using Hendo’s Olympic background, especially since they have no access to his Pride or UFC footage.
Also, while many of us think the worst thing for Strikeforce is a card full of “boring” fights, that could actually be good for CBS/MMA/Strikeforce IF THEY REACH A WIDER AUDIENCE, such as people who watch the Olympics. If these people tune in and see a night of wrestling/grappling/BJJ, it may soften the view of MMA as being brutal, bloody, and barbaric. (Sorry, I don’t know why I keep typing in three’s.) The 34-50 male demographic might actually be willing to watch MMA to see a former US Olympian fight (much closer to boxing than the common perception of no-holds-barred fighting). And the spouses of that demographic will likely find a night of bloodless grappling much more tolerable than an “average” MMA fight.
by mma_critic on Mar 8, 2010 12:29 PM EST reply actions
How are you connecting the Winter Olympics on NBC to a missed opportunity by CBS to advertise Hendo-Sheilds on their network?
I didn’t say they should have advertised on NBC. But one example of a missed opportunity is to put on a Hendo/Strikeforce commercial after the sports coverage on CBS nightly news. Nightly news is structured so that there is a sports segment, and that segment is at essentially the same time every night. It’s been a while since I’ve lived in the US, but every network news show used to follow the same structure and timing, so headlines on CBS are on at the same time as headlines on NBC, and sports are likewise on the news at the same time on CBS and NBC. Viewers tuning in for the nightly update on the Olympics on CBS news would then see a commercial promoting US Olympic athlete Dan Henderson’s upcoming sporting event on CBS.
Also, there are plenty of sports shows on various networks that have guests, and Hendo could have been on those while they had Olympics coverage. Get him on those shows as a former US Olympian and talking about MMA and his upcoming bout on CBS. He puts a good face on the sport. Randy and Hendo can be ambassadors to a new demographic while leaving Brock and Mir to the 18-34 males.
Maybe I’m crazy, but I see some easy ways to connect (a) the Winter Olympics, (b) a former US Olympian, and © and upcoming sporting event featuring previously-mentioned former US Olympian.
by mma_critic on Mar 8, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
You seem to be describing some sort of promotion
Strikeforce doesn’t do too much of that. But your plan makes perfect sense, so I am sorry they didn’t take advantage, but I also don’t think they know how.
Coker’s seemingly only been able to turn other people’s stars into income, as opposed to promoting his own stars. Frank and Cung were done deals before he met them, and Elite turned Gina into money. Hendo got promoted by Dana, Fedor by PRIDE, etc. Unless someone’s proven elsewhere by another promoter he won’t get behind it.
And I apologize if this sounds or is snarky, but that’s the only web voice with which I have time to describe this promotional situation.
by asa on Mar 8, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn't sound snarky at all
And I agree with your comments. I never gave it much thought before, but what you’re saying is also why Strikeforce was a big regional organization. He had cards headlined by guys who were extremely popular in that region who would pull fans with a very different type of (and very little) promotion than you need to be a major national organization. Two of those guys are Frank and Cung.
Thanks for the kind words, too. If only Strikeforce would run their business based on advice from posters on some blog! For the record, Mr. Coker, mma_critic is available for consulting…. just throwing it out there, but it looks like you could use some help.
by mma_critic on Mar 8, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s my quick input:
1) CBS pays very little for Strikeforce. 2.5 mil license fee max (I actually heard it’s 1.2 mil but I can’t believe its that low)
2) CBS makes $60,000 + per 30 sec buy from Strikeforce
3) CBS makes only $30-45,000 buy with reruns and 48 hours mysteries
4) even thought those programs are cheaper, mma brings in a different demo which CBS can use to sell block packages to buyers
5) If the UFC counters its the best news for CBS since they are currently drawing from different demos. They will gain from the hype surrounding a UFC/Strikeforce rivalry
6) Strikeforce goes out and picks up Arlovski, Hendo, Bobby Lashley, and a bunch morel with CBS greenlight, And they aren’t planning more show?
gotta tell ya
you make at least 5 good points there. they will do another show.
I am not disagreeing per se, but to your last point, Affliction also went out and signed some big names with the intention of having more shows, but we all know how that turned out..
All it takes is one bad show numbers wise for CBS to panis and pull the plug. It wouldn’t be the 1st that’s happened..
You make some very good points. Some that I made earlier. I don’t think this is the last Strikeforce show, but if the ratings aren’t at least 5.8, CBS will be very wary of continuing to show Strikeforce. It may get relegated to Showtime with a poor showing on April 17th. Those big names also garner big contracts which you need a lot of revenue to support, which again, you don’t get on Showtime.
I dunno, the 17th will be interesting because the live gate will be split since rumor is that the UFC is running their show in Nashville as well.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 8, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Which they haven’t announced yet, so they’re going to let Strikeforce get a week heads start on ticket sales (which have been very good) and then announce a Kimbo card to lure remaining hardcore mma fans to choose them instead? My guess is the UFC will be in Vegas.
It probably will end up in Vegas because they can walk into any casino and just get the venue
But I wouldn’t put it past Zuffa to book another venue within Nashville. I enjoy your posts because you bring a fresh breath to the pro-Zuffa crowd that is this blog (posters, not writers). Also as you said, people can make Point A, you retort with point B, and when C is logical, they yell out “Banana Balls!” and jump out the window!
twitter.com/thisredengine
The correct line
was “Pineapple cocks!”
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 8, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks man, that means a lot.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 9, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
With the moneys CBS agreed to throw in for m-1 and Fedor I believe it is in that ballpark when he fights.
It’s not in even in the ball park when he fights. Also Showtime takes a production fee out of the license fee. IF CBS was paying 2.5m or anywhere near that – they would have been canceled after the first show.
If it is a lot lower than that then it will be an easy decision for CBS not to cancel them and ride it out awhile longer. Their costs will easily be covered by the ad rates and the potential for younger demos will allow CBS to show a little more patience than normal.
So the UFC’s plan is to counter program to get CBS to lose ad money on a show they pay next to nothing for in hopes that they drop it?
No matter how little they pay shitfarce… airing a rerun is alot cheaper .
Now consider they lost over 2 million viewers on the Fedor card (viewers they would have had by running a simple rerun instead) and they pissed off affiliates by going over – now what happens when their demo gains are slashed?
kinda hate to say it but ....dudes gotta point
I think strike force has a few more shows in them. They will fall or be bought by the ufc like all other promotions before them.
The pissing off of affiliates is a very key point, and probably even more important than how many viewers they lost. The affiliates call the shots at the end of the day, and while CBS can keep running SF, the affiliates are under no obligation to pick it up.
but shitfarce ?????? Really???? its not even funny
and they have some great fighters where does the farce come in???
Since when is Fedor a proven draw?
I know he headlined the last show, but I would wager most of the audience had no idea who he was coming in. We know who he is, but the vast majority doesn’t.
Shitfarce put themselves in a choke hold and it’s only a matter of time before they tap…

by mmalogic on Mar 8, 2010 12:44 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
I like you man, I really do
But if you could post something besides a gif that’d be great. I know that you get paid $5000/h but comments only take like 5 minutes.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 8, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
so are words
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 8, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it's alot easier to just make a point than be childish about your point
I like logic because sometimes he actually makes a real point. But whenever he comes in and says shitfarce then posts a gif, it makes me think he’s not so much a contractor with insider information, but just a 15 year old kid who just loves the UFC.
twitter.com/thisredengine
“Shitfarce”
Why? Just why? I guess you want it to catch on or something. It’s just not necessary, dude.
I'm gonna make a bold prediction here and say Cain "pillowhands" (as some of you have called him) lol Velasquez catches Nog right on the chin and finishes via strikes on the ground. Nog looked good against an old Randy. It didn't show me much. We’ll see.
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 8, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Its his shtick, its not really a big deal.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
Its annoying. And its trolling.
The man known simply as "Christmas Cheesesteak"
by Neil Manich on Mar 8, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have but its pointless. Since hes an “insider” I guess they dont do anything to it. Hes the only person who doesnt behave like an normal adult. Very unbloodyelbowish IMO
I'm gonna make a bold prediction here and say Cain "pillowhands" (as some of you have called him) lol Velasquez catches Nog right on the chin and finishes via strikes on the ground. Nog looked good against an old Randy. It didn't show me much. We’ll see.
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 8, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
its his shtick, thats your excuse? okay...
I'm gonna make a bold prediction here and say Cain "pillowhands" (as some of you have called him) lol Velasquez catches Nog right on the chin and finishes via strikes on the ground. Nog looked good against an old Randy. It didn't show me much. We’ll see.
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 8, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Its not a big deal. Are you that upset by it?
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
A guy on the underground named Timmy B is getting his dick sucked for taking my intel and posting it on there and these crybabies cant handle “shitfarce” Kid Nate takes my entire comment on BE about Zuffa’s/abu dhabi’s negotiations with Fedor and creates a story about it (over 200 comments)… Do I cry? NO… I dont create fanposts – but I sprinkle gold in my comments and and these crybabies get their panties in a knot over a word.
Yep, it’s shitfarce mutherfuckers.
by mmalogic on Mar 8, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It’s clear you are not an impartial observer. Shitfarce, while not clever or funny is not trolling or any sort of bashing knowing your affiliation. Its kind of lame and desperate to use the term shitfarce, but its just as lame and desperate to nit pick the term because you don’t like the other things this guy is saying.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
by szucconi on Mar 8, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Im impartial to reality and unfortunately for some reality is very partial towards Zuffa.
by mmalogic on Mar 8, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Goddammit that is nasty.
Lifts the guy off the floor with that thing.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 8, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
A wee case of buyer's remorse
I’m sure Coker feels that with Fedor right now.
“But he looked so shiny and exciting in the store!”
by Django Z on Mar 8, 2010 1:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
After Affliction and Strikeforce, doubt anyone will ever do biz with Vlady and Fedor again. They’re just vampires. They come in and suck all of the cash out of a promotion, offer no help and bitch and moan when the promo tries to schedule Fedor to fight.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 8, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I really hope the UFC counters Strikeforce, if only so that I can watch Shinya vs Gil, Mousasi vs Mo, and Wandy vs Sexy from the comforts of my friend’s home (I actually don’t own a tv). But if Zuffa asked me I would recommend they don’t do it. The reasons:
1) All it will do is bring undo attention to the CBS card. And since CBS draws from a different demo it is entirely possible that rating for this card may actually be on par with the last one. So the UFC might actually risk losing a publicity battle by drawing a smaller audience. And so what if the more valuable 18-34 demo chooses the UFC or Strikeforce, all that is going to do is whet the appetite of CBS execs, thinking that is a potential audience they can draw over.
2) Counter programming works two ways. They could also lose ratings, meaning they’ve lowered their advertising prices to hustle together a card. A card that if it includes the rumored contestants will be much more expensive than the April 17th Strikeforce card.
My advise to the UFC would be to buckle down and just outpace Strikeforce. A year or two from now, if they stick to what they’re doing and Strikeforce can’t magically morph into the most dynamic promotion around, they’ll be so far back in the rear view mirror that they won’t even be worth thinking about.
dana loves fighting
He likes this shit. Its fun for him.
The counter-programming ratings do not matter to the UFC or their advertisers. Most advertisers advertise because the ufc’s brand is so striong and are not going to be scared off by a bad ratings day. Dana and the UFC have such a deal with Spike that last week while the WEC was on vs, they were running UFC highlight fights. So if that is what normally shows on a Sat. night on Spike, do you really think they care about bad ratings for one show when it would definitely be higher than the ratings for a highlight show.
Also to your first point the point of this show for what most people believe is to guage what SF can do without Fedor headlining a card. It is Dana’s best interest to make sure that they do not succeed without Fedor because eventually Fedor will be Fedor and M1 and screw SF over. At that point CBS says I want no shows without him. It also drives Fedor’s ridiculous asking price up which can not do any good for SF’s already strained business model
Kind of agree but...
The fact that the UFC is planning on running the show in the same city makes it an entirely different proposition than just straight up countering. They are basically calling out SF on all levels, attendance, TV and brand recognition. The UFC is going to win 2 if not 3 of those things and they are going to but SF in a position where they are going to be very gun shy about challenging the UFC again.
I’m kind of a Luddite. I have a theatre for watching movies, but I got rid of my tv awhile ago so I have no distractions at home (My wifi is also on a timer, but I’m getting around that by using my iPhone. Pathetic.). When I want to watch an event I go to a friends house and pay for the ppv or the Showtime subscription (thankfully most people out here get Versus and Spike) and force them to watch it with me (no one I know is really into mma) or go to a bar.
I had to wiki Luddite, and its very interesting. Is it Movies > TV programming idealogy?
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Sorta. I’m a film fanatic so I tend to go to the theatres for my entertainment. And since I’m lucky enough to live near a couple of revival houses it is rarely a new release. I have nothing against TV, I’m just not that into it. And without the option of vegetating in front of the tube, I find I get a lot more done.
CBS skews far, far older than Spike TV to begin with. I believe the median viewer of CBS programming on any given night is going to be in his or her 50s. The fact that StrikeForce on CBS does not skew as young as the UFC on Spike TV or PPV is not the least bit surprising. StrikeForce still skews far younger and more male than the CBS norm, and helps draw younger viewers to their network at a time when network television ratings have never been lower. The fact is a portion of StrikeForce’s viewers are going to be a segment of old people who watch just about anything. This might be surprising, but statistically the segment of the population that watches the most television is people over the age of 54, and it was that way even before the internet was omnipresent.
I’m pretty sure that CBS won’t axe future StrikeForce events if Hendo and Shields only manage to get 80% of the ratings that Fedor got. Now if they tanked much further than that, I don’t know, but I would guess CBS is going to show some patience here.
“The Strikeforce events on CBS draw an older audience in general than the audience that watches UFC, which relates to CBS’s generally older demographics. The cities where Strikeforce does its best television numbers have little similarity with the markets where UFC does its best pay-per-view numbers.” That does not neccessarily mean they are entirely different audiences. The UFC ppv buying audience is nearly always smaller and younger than the average CBS strikeforce audience but that doesn’t mean that most of them aren’t part of the Strikeforce audience as well. In any event, it doesn’t really matter because the UFC isn’t going to counter with a PPV. Let’s face it, the WEC ppv isn’t going to be a huge success. 200k-300k buys if they are lucky. That isn’t gong to make much of a dent in the Strikeforce auience. Besides, most of them will be DVR’ing Strikeforce. If Strikeforce lets themselves be countered by a free show on Spike then they could be in some trouble, They Spike show will draw around 2 million viewer most of whom are casual fans who will prefer the slick ZUFFA production over the plodding CBS production. It seems logical to me that people who actually buy a PPV (particularly a WEC ppv) are a lil more hardcore and are more likely to have their DVR’s going than the casual fan who drops in on a spike broadcast. Bottom line: Strikeforce needs to choose their saturday night MMA competition. They can go against a weak WEC PPV or get their asses kicked going up against free broadcast with better production value.
Either way CBS will probably stick with them cause they see the potential.
Something good might
be in there, but I need paragraphs. I am old, have bad eyes, English is my 4th language, pick one.
Strikeforce is a paper tiger.

It’s like CBS/Showtime got some steroids from Barnett and pumped up the regional promotion that was Strikeforce into the national version that it is now. The advertisement says “Strikeforce MMA” but really it’s ‘CBS/Showtime/M1/Strikeforce MMA". If CBS decides they’re done, Strikeforce goes back to being a regional show on Showtime. They wont stop operations but I don’t see them getting another big deal again. They might try PPV but that’s a tough business. Showtime PPV is awful at promoting the events.
CBS is on the line for Strikeforce. They might get two more shows but we might be seening the last Strikeforce events on CBS. Hope not. Should be interesting to see what happens.
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 8, 2010 6:10 PM EST reply actions
It's OK,
2 months ago he was a Strikeforce fanboy, then he was a UFC fanboy, then again he was pro Strikeforce. He just can’t win. When he provides us with ANY information, internet fans blast him.
I don’t always agree with Nate but I would never ask him to change the way he brings us information and articles. I hope he (and the rest of the BE staff) continue along the same lines that made this a great site.
by Riney on Mar 8, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Posted this last week, I think it still holds true.
If the overall ratings are low the demo ratings aren’t going to be that good either. To have young male eyeballs you have to have eyeballs watching.
Lets look at the ratings CBS had this last Saturday against the Olympics with reruns:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/02/28/tv-ratings-waning-olympics-still-win-saturday-night-easily/43269
Fox’s time-tested Saturday night lineup of Cops and America’s Most Wanted was a very distant second place. CBS ran with crime drama repeats and 48 Hours Mystery, and ABC ran the movie Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.
Details:
Time Net Show 18-49 Rating/Shr Viewers (Millons)
8:00 NBC Vancouver Olympics 3.5/12 16.61
FOX Cops (1 New, 1 Repeat) 1.8/6 5.72
ABC Movie: Harry Potter & Order of the Phoenix (8p-11p)® 1.4/4 3.89
CBS Numb3rs® 0.6/2 3.16
9:00 NBC Vancouver Olympics 4.8/15 21.6
FOX America’s Most Wanted 1.8/5 5.50
CBS Cold Case® 0.9/3 4.18
10:00 NBC Vancouver Olympics 5.2/16 20.97
CBS 48 Hours Mystery 1.6/5 6.28
Strikeforce Fedor vs Rogers overall drew 4.04 million viewers for a 2.5 rating for 9 to 11(ET) for CBS. So a rerun of Cold Case and a rerun of 48 Hour Mystery going against the Winter Olympics still blew away Strikeforce’s ratings on CBS. The only reason CBS is interested at all in MMA is the demographics because the best ratings MMA has done for them just don’t cut it otherwise. If the viewership numbers go down then even those demographic numbers won’t matter as they won’t be good enough. We are still talking about a fringe sport here, It’s going to take Strikeforce’s "A" game every time to just stay at acceptable levels.
exactly. Strikeforce did good for a new show but it's less than what CBS usualy does.
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 8, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
I think the thing that gets us so often is that we get caught up with what is good in terms of the MMA industry as opposed to what is good in terms of television. Flat out the best ratings that MMA has ever got in the US is still pretty lackluster, on network tv that is magnified. Spongebob Squarepants utterly destroys MMA programming ratings on a weekly basis, this is still a fringe sport.
The sport lives on it’s demographics being popular with advertisers but you still have to get decent ratings to get great demographics. If the ratings are down then the demographics will be down too and if the 18-31 demographic is down then the network appeal will fade quickly.
The thing these numbers miss is that a 30-second spot during a rerun of CSI only garners $30,000, while mma – even if it is only drawing 4-5 mil, is averaging closer to $60,000. So the ad revenue has doubled even if they lost a big chunk of overall viewers. According to estimates given above by messrs. mmlogic and phildo (which I don’t believe. I think CBS is paying more than $1.2 mil) the additional revenue covers the cost of the license fee. Meaning it is a wash for CBS. So CBS is going to cancel mma even though:
1) the net is roughly the same be it mma or reruns, but only one of them has the potential for a dramatic increase
2) it keeps their sports crew employed (Believe me they like having their production staffs occupied).
It only makes sense to cancel mma if they show no gain in viewership and a decrease in the young, male demos and the expense is greater than the return on ad revenue. After another couple of shows on CBS it will be much easier to see where they stand.
It only makes sense to cancel mma if they show no gain in viewership and a decrease in the young, male demos and the expense is greater than the return on ad revenue.
Which is exactly the point. Ratings and demographics aren’t independent of each other, demographics are a subset of overall ratings. I doubt the demographic’s ratio will change all that drastically from the last event, if the ratings go down then the demographics will drop by about the same level too. Advertiser’s pay that premium dependent on what the ratings say, if the demographics go down then so will the rate they can charge for 30 second spots. Heck determining ad rates is the reason the ratings system exist. Fewer viewers is going to bring everything else down too. If they do ratings comparable to what the non-Kimbo/Fedor CBS MMA show did then it’s going to be ugly all around. These ratings are going to be very important.
I wasn't really disagreeing with you,
I was trying trying to kill two birds with one stone and address some of the things others brought up earlier. I should have been clearer.
My point was if the Strikeforce’s license fee is as low as some have alluded to, then CBS’s pain threshold should be great enough to allow them to stay afloat at their current numbers for some time. Even if they are losing 2 mil viewers from their normal Saturday, if they keep the gains in 18-31’s they gained on the last Saturday Night Fights, it’s worth it to continue.
I actually think they pay out more for mma, so they’ll definite want to start seeing those numbers go up. Or, if the UFC counters them heavily, at least have a strong enough reason to believe they rise to justify continuing.
If Strikeforce’s license fee is that low then there is a whole different problem going on here. That may raise CBS’s pain threshold but it definitely is going to lower Strikeforce’s. I’m sure that’s a real balancing act in play here too.
Even if they are losing 2 mil viewers from their normal Saturday, if they keep the gains in 18-31’s they gained on the last Saturday Night Fights, it’s worth it to continue.
Yes but what is important is what they lose compared to the Fedor event, if their ratings go down then they won’t be keeping the demographic gains of the last Saturday Night Fights, those will go down too. If they can do comparable ratings to the Fedor event without him then I’m sure everyone not named Vadim will be happy but that is a big if. They were losing 2 million+ off normal with Fedor, what happens if they lose 2 million off their last showing?
Your ad numbers are way off… Yeah the target demo garners higher ad revenue but it’s something that it’s worked up to. If you think they sold that ad time for more than the reruns you’re sadly mistaken. If they build on it and if they can keep the target demo then they can slowly position it as such but they arent even close to there yet
This product doesnt currently bring in more revenue or even the same – it just brings in different advertisers in which they can try to sell other time slots to. Could it in the future? yes…
But once the target demo gains are slashed it’s over. Could they do another show? sure. It will be slashed again. If Rampage didnt pull out of the Tenn Fight and all the injuries didnt occur at the same time chances are we wouldnt even be having this conversation. The fedor show would have been poor even in the target demo’s.
It’s not just CBS we’re talking about. Current investors, new investors, second round of funding, fighters thinking twice about signing with a company that has a shaky future, coker himself thinking twice about signing fighters, etc… – Everything gets affected.
Whether CBS cancels after this show or after the next one – the counter program or even the threat of it does enough damage to influence everyone involved and anyone else thinking about getting involved.

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