Is the UFC Going Too Freakshow With James Toney and Kimbo Slice?
by Kid Nate on Mar 7, 2010 9:19 PM EST
in MMA News
249 comments
Ben Fowlkes has an interesting piece about the James Toney signing by the UFC:
If a guy like Toney -- who is regarded by boxing enthusiasts these days almost as a crazy uncle who must be tolerated but never left alone unsupervised -- can jump right into MMA's top promotion and knock out some hand-picked opponent on his first try, what does that say about the sport in general?
If, on the other hand, the UFC manages to get him into a fight with an experienced grappler who takes him down and feeds him elbows until he learns a begrudging respect for the ground game, it could be a very unceremonious end to this experiment.
The truth is, on some level, this has to be part freak show. That's Toney's appeal in MMA. The same way we want to know what would happen if a mountain lion fought a grizzly, we want to know what would happen if a boxer fought a mixed martial artist. That's how this sport got its start, at least in the U.S. We wanted to see fighters of all disciplines thrown into a cage together just to see who would walk out. Ideally, we'd also like those fighters to be a little closer to their prime.
It's possible that White was motivated to sign Toney because he's sick of all the press Canseco and Walker have been getting. It's also possible that the die-hard boxing fan in him just couldn't say no to a rapidly fading great like Toney knocking on his door and then practically camping out in his front yard.
This calls to mind this piece from MMA Payout which worries that the UFC is going one freak too far by signing James Toney and now considering headlining a Spike TV event with Kimbo Slice vs Matt Mitrione on April 17th:
The short-term benefit of a Kimbo headline is obvious, but I wonder how much damage it might do to the UFC's long-term credibility. Kimbo sells for reasons other than his fighting ability; in fact, we saw over the course of TUF 10 and its finale that interest had declined somewhat - the cat was out of the bag regarding his skills. So, what does it say that the UFC would put him in a headlining position?
The UFC has worked very hard to cultivate its existing credibility with the mainstream media and fan base - of which, admittedly, there still isn't as much as we'd all like. Why jeopardize that? Why put non-MMA fighters in a headlining position on an MMA card?
If Strikeforce wanted to promote Herschel Walker vs. James Toney, the UFC should have let them. No successful, long-term mixed martial arts endeavor will ever be built upon the backs of non-MMA fighters - this is a guarantee.
Now the UFC has been sucked into this high risk, high reward game that might end up backfiring on them and the entire industry.
All of this brought to mind our own Luke Thomas' piece on Freakshows in MMA from about a month back:
The lesson is not that all freakshows are created equal, but that over time products can be improved and palates refined. What begins as a mess often causes enough of a spark to eventually burn away the unessential and produce something of value. As Rossen correctly underscores, MMA itself in America began as a freakshow, but the melee of circus bouts and proposed alligator pits nevertheless homed in a core concept of hand-to-hand fighting that has matured, endured and blossomed into a sophisticated, respectable version of its former self....
As we move forward, let us be mindful of our origin. We cannot surrender our standards and principles - those that have brought us closer to our self-identification as sport - for cheap entertainment that could undermine validity, but we must also be mindful of our evolution. We must be aware of how those in positions of power who can help us turn MMA into what we want it to be and where it needs to go can, over time, have their views adjusted. The recipe for change involves many ingredients, all of them both sufficient and necessary. But before we can demonstrate the potency of this dynamic sport, we have to have the most essential ingredient of them all: their attention.
And one more quote from Luke, speculating on why Dana White signed James Toney:
As White has curiously remarked (it makes perfect sense to me), ESPN and many in the traditional sports establishment still won't pay attention to MMA or the UFC, yet will when one of their favorite sons from another, more established sport gets in the mix. Toney is hardly as beloved as Walker, but the interesting mix of a former high-level boxer throwing his hat in the (ostensibly) top shelf MMA ring creates a new magic worthy of eyeballs from the same group. And if we refer to the first point, with their attention and a likely butchering of Toney at the hands of what should be a more than competent wrester, White could be killing two birds with one stone.
Dana White is walking a very fine line with the James Toney and Kimbo Slice moves.
Bringing in Brock Lesnar from the WWE was a huge success, but unlike Lesnar, Slice and Toney are not coming from the elite amateur wrestling background that thrives in MMA. Nor is Toney at the peak of his athletic condition.
As long as Mariusz Pudzianowski isn't the next announced UFC signing, I cling to hope. But if Mariusz shellacks Tim Sylvia in Massachusetts, all bets are off.
Dana has to be careful or he could burn out the media and fans on MMA and the UFC with too much freak show and not enough quality sport.
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I'm over the whole "Sport vs Entertainment" arguement
Why can’t sports rules be made to be entertaining? NASCAR had an extensive ad campigan to “let ’em race” and shit like that changing the rules to add to the entertainment aspect of their sport. Why weren’t they given hell?
Fight sport can have guys like Toney and Kimbo because sometimes we just want to see what a guy’s got. For whatever reason. As long as a guy is in shape, and cleared to fight by medical staff what’s wrong with having something that is more entertaining that it is sporting? All the same rules still apply, the skill level might not be at the top but interest is.
I don’t think that’s un-sporting or shameful to enjoy.
by JimJoe on Mar 7, 2010 9:17 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Let me paraphrase......
Freak shows are ok as long as basic safety rules (medical clearance, weight classes) are followed. Sometimes. Keep it at a minimum.
Heres the answer to the article title......no
Kimbo and Toney come from avenues of combat (not baseball, not football) and deserve to be allowed to test their select skills in the octagon in order for the followers behind them to adjust and adapt to their discipline’s, (or lack of -Kimbo) shortcomings.
like the juijitsus, kickboxers,wrestlers, and everyone else: Streetfighting and Boxing are always welcome elements in MMA
Exactly.
I keep hearing Boxing vs MMA, isn’t boxing part of MMA. Wouldn’t it be silly if we said “well they only signed Rolles cuz every1 wants to see bjj vs mma”
by xbuckeyex05 on Mar 8, 2010 2:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This is a lot how I look at the situation. I don’t mind as long as it’s not an entire card filled with these type of fights trying to pass off as a legit card. And like Luke said, I think it’s good to push the envelope of freak show fights just far enough to gain viewers and hope that they catch interest in the higher caliber fighters that would be on that same card.
"I fight because I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and it beats working all day. Now ask me a question that doesn’t sound so fucking stupid." – Phil Baroni
Nascar ratings are down, and go down each year because once they were close to mainstream they changed their image and rules to appeal to more people. It gave them an initial spike where they could claim they were now a mainstream sport, after those new people checked out nascar and then stopped watching because they couldn’t grasp what was special about 4 hours of cars going in circles, ratings started to go down. All the changes away from legit racing to basically WWE with (non) stockcars has driven away lifelong fans and hardcore fans. Making the ratings even worse. Daytona 500 was around 520 miles this year, one of the main things wrong with the “sport”…
That’s what’s wrong with sport v. entertainment. It might make a sport more entertaining to those who can’t grasp why a sport is the way it is and aren’t true fans of the sport, but does that help the sport in the long run?? Nope, because those people have no investment, just see cheap entertainment then stop watching, while you also end up losing the true fans of the sport, because the sport becomes entertainment as opposed to a legit sporting contest.
Same thing with NBA, they decide that instead of keeping basketball a team sport, they need to have a “Jordan” on each team, market the game as such, and the game has become such, a 1 on 1 sport, it’s not Lakers v. Cavs, it’s Lebron v. Kobe. The old days when it was Bird v. Magic or Magic v. Jordan, it was still Celtics-Lakers or Lakers-Bulls, ya, Magic, Bird and Jordan were huge starts, but everyone could still name the starters (and most bench players) of each team. Nowadays ask a casual basketball fan that lives outside the Cleveland market to name 8 players for the Cavs and they’ll most likely know 2 or 3 at most…
by Reaser16 on Mar 8, 2010 5:03 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Looks like you pasted the first bit from Luke's piece into the middle of the MMA Payout quote.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
lowel hit'em with the " full freak show"
i feel like it should be a staple during these threads on kimbo and toney
Why do people think Kid Nate hates the UFC so much?
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
Proposed BE Sarcasm identifyer:
µWhy do you hate the UFC so much?µ
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
Why do Canadians hate Americans?
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
Penis Envy.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Mar 7, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Florida?
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
Florida is where we started to send all of our old folk after the UN got all pissy over the whole “ice floe” thing.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
Yeah thanks for that >:(
Tampa would just like to say “FUCK YOU VERY MUCH” lol j/k
The Toney signing didnt have as much to do with Hershal walker, jose canseco or strikeforce as it did floyd mayweather… It’s a small part of a broad strategic plan which was put together because Zuffa had to move the montreal card… . Once the plan is fully implemented the next “mayweather” will think twice about going head to head with the UFC.
Have you watched a sport like curling in the olympics? and wondered" “what the fuck is this” or “what the point of this is”? Well, that’s the same reaction people will have when they watch boxing in 100 years…. Dana doesnt want to wait 100 years or even 50 years.
While the idiots run around wondering what the hell a freak show is and isnt… what’s good for the sport and isnt -Zuffa is doing what it’s always been doing:
Growing and protecting the sport… just sit back and watch.
Curling is awesome! It`s the only olympic sport that you can excel at while smoking and with a beer in hand!
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
Curling has seemed to peak a lot of interest down in my parts, I’ve noticed quite a few people in Mississippi interested in the sport. A video gamer friend is actively seeking a curling game for the 360, any suggestions?
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 8, 2010 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
PAUSE
dammit.
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 8, 2010 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
Ta
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 8, 2010 3:07 AM EST up reply actions
Once the plan is fully implemented the next "mayweather" will think twice about going head to head with the UFC.
I will give you my Kidney if the UFC beats Mayweather.
Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.
Keep your kidney and go to english class. nobody said anything about beating mayweather.
by mmalogic on Mar 7, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LMMFAO
Once the plan is fully implemented the next "mayweather" will think twice about going head to head with the UFC.
The UFC will get out of the way of boxing’s next supermega star the same way they got out of Mayweather’s way. LOL at thinking anything else. Your promotion of the whole “boxing vs UFC” faux competition is fandboyism at its worst.
Have you watched a sport like curling in the olympics? and wondered" "what the fuck is this" or "what the point of this is"? Well, that’s the same reaction people will have when they watch boxing in 100 years…. Dana doesnt want to wait 100 years or even 50 years.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Mar 8, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
No.
Like somebody else noted, Nate made a pasting mistake which I’m sure he’ll correct.
by Cannon Jacques on Mar 7, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
The thing is
The UFC can afford to drop these guys at any point because neither of them will ever be legitimate contenders without any danger of their market taking a hit. Toney could fight twice, lose both, get cut, nothing happens. Same with Kimbo in the UFC as opposed to EliteXC. Frankly Strikeforce has the same situation where they can drop Herschel Walker if he gets pancaked by anyone decent, and not go out of business because of it. Right now they have other problems extending beyond Herschel that puts them in danger.
A freakshow to me is Jose Canseco vs. Hong Man Choi or Larry Holmes vs. Butterbean. James Toney, as much as I’m against this signing, does have a deep boxing background…..how eroded those skills are I don’t know because I haven’t seriously watched him since he “won” against Fres Oquendo.
Whether the success can be sustained, Kimbo showed signs of progress and used the Sliceplex against Houston Alexander. His stamina is absolutely pitiful but he’s shown the skill that he never got during his internet days or with EliteXC.
I think Dana is squeezing as much as he can from the Kimbo (and soon Toney) cash cow before they get their walking papers. He’s a promoter so he is supposed to BS the public. In his heart and mind he knows these guys would get destroyed by B-level fighters in their roster.
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
by SSreporters on Mar 7, 2010 10:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
And to clarify "nothing happens"
I mean the news sites and talk shows like PTI briefly pick up on it, put in their two cents, and it will go away. Now if this was in 2004-2005 and Toney signed and was a flop that would’ve been a massive black mark. This wouldn’t even make a dent because logical and rational people know that the UFC has an array of talented, quality fighters and is far from a freakshow.
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
Exactly
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Can we at least wait to see who Toney’s first opponent is and if Kimbo is actually gonna headline the Spike card before we start bitching? If Toney fights Couture and Kimbo is the first fight on the card then what will there be to complain about next?
by ufc4 on Mar 7, 2010 10:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Define a “legit” headliner
"The left hand brings death, but the right one even I am afraid of."-Mariusz Pudzianowski
Someone who wasn't a part of TUF.
No Maynard, Diaz, Cole Miller, Escudero, etc.
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
Couture/Franklin....
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
This would be my card if I could choose to combat Strikeforce on any day
Couture/Franklin
Bisping/Marquardt
Quarry/Leben
Rumble/Brown
Kimbo/Mitrione.
It’s a low-end PPV on any other day but to counter a rival I’d do this in a heartbeat.
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
Hmm..
That card against:
Fedor vs Overeem
Hendo vs Mousasi ( or Mo )
Shields vs Jacare
Melendez ( or Aoki ) vs any up and coming LW in SF
Cyborg vs Toughill
…on CBS
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
They have 3 fights scheduled for their next CBS show, good luck getting 5. Oh yeah, they also don’t have Fedor signed to a deal he’s willing to fight under.
I know...you're telling things I'm already aware of.
The post I replied said a low-even PPV against a rival’s card.
I posted a card that would rival a low-end UFC card. No more, no less.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Pretty much my thoughts
I believe that Kimbo isn’t going to headline and Toney is going to fight someone tough. Changes all of this.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
lol bring back Sean Gannon.
Him vs Kimbo 2 would definitly beat Strikeforce in ratings
"The left hand brings death, but the right one even I am afraid of."-Mariusz Pudzianowski
THE SILVER BACK
LET SETH AND TOM LAWLOR VS. KIMBO AND DA DA 5000 IN THE FIRST UFC TAG TEAM MATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kimbo should fight Brock for the Kimbofight title.
Kimbo>Gannon>Hinkle>Monson>Silvia>Couture>BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!!!
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
help me out buddy
kimbo > gannon? are you say “kimbo greater than gannon”
people kimbo should fight to get to the belt, right?
thanks for the lesson. i ate paint chips and a small child
Kimbo lost ¸Kimbofight title to Gannon who lost it to Hinkle who lost it to Monson who lost it to Sylvia who lost it to Couture who lost it to Brocklesnarrr.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
lol thats awsome , thank you for the lesson
omg brock is street certified. I didnt realize how hood he was until you broke it down in layers for me.
Brocklesnarrrr is also the 2006 Pride OWGP champ.
Crocop>Gonzaga>Couture>BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!!!
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
dont forget Rings king of Kings champ
nog>mir>brock
did i use the arrows wrong???
nog was Rings 2000 champ. thats the one fedor got cut in.
No no no
“And a small child” is MUCH better.
by ufc4 on Mar 7, 2010 10:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I laughed at that typo
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 7, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
It could be the role of prisoner if you really ate a child of any size with paint chips. They taste better with buttermilk ranch anyway.
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 8, 2010 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
Lol better yet
A match between Seth Petruzelli and Sean Gannon for who gets to rematch Slice (even though they both beat him)
"The left hand brings death, but the right one even I am afraid of."-Mariusz Pudzianowski
Kimbo vs Pretuzelli 2
It has the makings of a great co-main event for Free TV. Dana would have a great time telling the story between these two, all the while retelling the story of Seth on TUF and comparing it to Kimbo’s journey, etc. It works.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
That would sell....
But i’d rather see that another time. Slice vs Mitrione is what I wanna see right now
"The left hand brings death, but the right one even I am afraid of."-Mariusz Pudzianowski
Agreed
Slice vs Mitrione, Toney, Buentello, Matsyushenko, Petruzelli has 6+ million views written all over it.
I think Dana would have to put a leash on a lot of these other MMA fighters if they see that Slice is getting fighters who’re below the curve, yet above Slice in experience, talent and skill — yet manage to gets views UFC champions ( other than Lesnar ) could only wish to have.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Those are all great matchups
Aside from Toney, I don’t think the UFC would risk the rep of either of their money makers.
"The left hand brings death, but the right one even I am afraid of."-Mariusz Pudzianowski
Very true
—infact, you could possibly say that Kimbo is Toney’s Brock Lesnar. Toney against anyone lower than HW is asking too much.
I say put Toney vs Buentello and Kimbo vs Mitrione ( or Hardonk ) on the same card. Tease the fans with a potential “Kimbo vs Toney” matchup.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Lol Toney vs Buentello
would be gold. I don’t much like him vs Kongo
"The left hand brings death, but the right one even I am afraid of."-Mariusz Pudzianowski
Toney vs CroCop?
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Just give Toney to Mir.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 7, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
I would give Mir to a psychologist.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Such a big fuss over nothing. James Toney (a real fighter),Kimbo(a wannabe),Hershel Walker(an earnest amateur) and Jose Canseco(bagadouche) combined couldn’t bring down MMA. At it’s core I believe MMA has a wealth of exciting,talented,skilled and legit athletes. Whatever eyeballs can be pursuaded to tune in and be exposed to this legitimate combat sport then all the better. People love competition and elite athletes as a spectacle. MMA has that and then some.
what do you mean by kimbo is a wanna be?
wtf do that mean, are you saying he aint a fighter? if thats the case what hell is he doing once he step in the octagon
by staytrue2010 on Mar 7, 2010 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of fighters get tooled by anyone with a ground game
—They also get tooled by anyone with a decent punch too. That’s just how the MMA ball rolls, Kimbo will have his up’s and his down’s. Fact is Kimbo is in the UFC, thus making him a legitimate Mixed Martial Artist.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
kimbo aint been "tooled" by nobody since joining the ufc
by staytrue2010 on Mar 7, 2010 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
i could of swore that was on tuf
i could of swore neither one of them were in the ufc at the time.. kimbo even caught roy a few times.. no shame in kimbo losing to roy especially when it comes to the ground game
by staytrue2010 on Mar 7, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
They are both in the UFC now, and Kimbo didn`t do anything to Roy.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
when i watched the fight kimbo dazed roy at the time
i know they in the ufc now. they weren’t at the time im speaking on
by staytrue2010 on Mar 7, 2010 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
really????
when ???? i dont remember that. Infact! I have never seen Kimbo one punch anyone even at one of his BBQ fights. Am wrong people? I think i have watched all his fights (youtube and all). I was impressed with exactly 0 of them. He looks scary. People look at Kimbo and think he can fight.The UFC had to bring in a fighter they already fired for him to get a win. Then fired him again as soon as he lost a horrible fight to kimbo.
when i watched the fight kimbo dazed roy a couple of times
by staytrue2010 on Mar 7, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Lol I went back and watched it
Roy wanted no part of the standup
"The left hand brings death, but the right one even I am afraid of."-Mariusz Pudzianowski
Keep drinking that Kimbo Kool-Aid.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 7, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure he did
—Kimbo had perks that most fighters didn’t. So him getting money to show doesn’t sound too far-fetched.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Kimbo made about $50 000 at the TUF finale. That is not a standard TUF contract.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
That’ll buy a lot of doo-rags and Murray’s Hair Cream.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 7, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Roy "Double Whopper with Cheese" Nelson
—I would consider that a legitimate “tooling”.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
ARE YOU F-ing kidding me ??????
dude elite xc bribed seth to keep it standing.
Then Country showed us why.
Seth said he wasn't
—And Roy could have done far more damage to Kimbo than simply laying on him in the crucifix position and lightly tapping his head. That fight was all geared to keep Kimbo in fighting shape since the ENTIRE SHOW was focused around him.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
he lost to seth now he's not a fighter.. aight homeboy whatever you say
roy could of done more damage? ok roy still got dazed a couple of times like i said
by staytrue2010 on Mar 7, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
even rashad said they dazed him
i dont need you telling me getting hit and getting dazed are two different things.. he looked a little dazed when i watched the fight
by staytrue2010 on Mar 7, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
And I don’t need you pretending like Kimbo had even the slightest chance of beating Roy Nelson because he didn’t.
i aint pretending to do shit. i didn't say he did have i chance
just said he dazed him a couple of times..
by staytrue2010 on Mar 7, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
well ya kinda did.
You said Kimbo HADNT BEEN TOOLED !!!!! "kimbo aint been “tooled” by nobody since joining the ufc. Kimbo wouldnt have even made it into the house if they had to fight their way in. Notice How on that season they didnt fight there way into the house. Strange isnt it??? They do this season thats coming up, and they did on the previous season. Look i dont wanna fighter bash but what has he done to prove he deserves to be in the ufc? Seth beat him and he cant get a contract.wtf???
bullshit they aint fighting to get in the house this season
they already showed the fighters for tuf 11. you right i said kimbo hasn’t been tooled since joining the ufc because he hasn’t.. how you gone say kimbo wouldn’t of made it in house if they had to fight their way in? you dont know what he would of did.. what did brock do to deserve to get in the ufc, he only had 1 fight. dana gave brock a chance just like kimbo.. you got a problem with kimbo being in the ufc?
by staytrue2010 on Mar 8, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
yes i do
if he stands up with pat berry,rampage or any credible striker. I will feel different. He had a chance to prove his hands were legit against Ray Mercer and he didnt want anything to do with that bad old man. Until proven otherwise he has done nothing to deserve being in the cage. He has no ground game and his hands are nothing special. He is sub white belt on the ground and there are better hands @ every boxing gym in the entire country.
you got a problem with kimbo being in the ufc
oh well hating and bitching about it on bloodyelbow aint gone make him disappear.. like it or not kimbo will still be in the ufc at the end of the day. dana let him join the ufc he won his 1st fight aint no point of bitching. kimbo had ray backing back the whole time so he took him down and submitted him its mma you can do that. you can say whatever after this because im done with this little conversation its getting real old.
Hey atleast he looks scary.
Houston got signed back to the ufc just for the kimbo fight and fired after it. I am not impressed.
Why didnt he just make Mercer a “done da da” with “dem” haymakers if he was backing up??? clearly Mercer was scared to stand with Kimbo right?
I would say Meathead will expose Kimbo but The Silver Back and Big Country already did.
I'm with you
Kimbo is a joke, and so is Dana for talking trash about all the other promotions that had freak show fights. Monkey see, monkey do.
Regardless of this, I’ll watch any and every one of UFC and Strikeforce’s shows. I’m entertained – just not by Lesnar, Kimbo, Canseco, Herschel or Toney. I watch for the real fighters, and don’t care if there is a freakshow fight every now and then.
Just don’t try to tell me these fights are good fights, because they’re not.
by CaptainSpaulding on Mar 8, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Spike TV has announced that The Ultimate Fighter (TUF) Season 11 is mixing things up for its March 31 debut by featuring a new, 28-man roster of hungry middleweights vying for a “six-figure contract” under the tutelage of former TUF Coaches and bitter rivals Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz.
28 guys ? they dont have to fight to get in ? cool.
I never said Roy wasn't stunned by Kimbo, I just said Roy could have did more damage laying on him compared to Kimbo hitting him while standing
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
by Ryan Tical on Mar 7, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Toney will make Boxing fans tune into an MMA event
…or it will add more fuel to the Boxer vs MMArtist argument. Either way, you have down-to-earth Boxing fans who appreciate MMA as the — I won’t say next — premiere combat sport of this day and age. James Toney on the UFC roster says a lot. In the coming years you could see an influx of up and coming Boxers crossing over — doing both sports to keep themselves busy thus putting more money in the pockets of promoters & presidents alike which could even turn out to give each Boxer/MMArtist Pacquiao-esque popularity amongst fans of both sports.
It’s obvious guys like Kimbo and Toney are being used to sell the product, not teach Boxing a lesson. Don’t be suprised if you soon see guys like Zab Judah, Ricardo Miyorga ( who is signed to SHiNE Fight Promotion ), possibly WBC titlist Andre Berto, who’s brother James Edson “Little Tiger” Berto is a MMArtist and fought for EliteXC at one time — make the jump to MMA to sell themselves, something Boxing does not do. You have an infinite amount of possibilities. Ray Mercer was just the icing on the cake, Jeremy Williams, Francios Botha, Ricardo Miyorga and now James Toney — all former Boxers, jumping ship to a different combat sport. I wouldn’t be so quick to shit on these fighters some of you would consider “has-beens” because if they’re willing to take part in MMA, that says something for the sport itself and shouldn’t be looked down upon for no reason other than to analyze each fighter for their upcoming bout. Common sense tells anyone that none of the aforementioned Boxers will be fighting for the UFC championships or any form of MMA championships anytime soon. It’s all one big “what if” match up. Curiosity, nonetheless.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Toney trying his hand at MMA is more a result of nobody in boxing wanting to pay him then some begrudging respect for the sport. I feel that MMA is less legitimized by the idea that a guy can come in from boxing, train for a few months in TD defense, and be competitive at the highest level of the sport.
Also, I would be VERY surprised if we saw people trying to compete at the higher levels of both MMA and boxing, as they are two different sports with two different approaches. Guys who just box or just do MMA as a general rule would do better than guys who try to box and do MMA. Think GSP: he is a great fighter and MMA wrestler, but he’s not also trying to wrestle in the Olympics because he doesn’t think he’d be able to keep up with guys that do it 24/7.
Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.
by lowellthehammer on Mar 7, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think that is true he , he wont be able to compete
If a bjj blackbelt takes him down and refuses to stand with him he doesnt stand a snowballs chance in hell. This is more of a style vs style fight in my opinion.
Yeah, IF
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
So you are saying Toney has some sick takedown defense?
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 7, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
His Dad was the original cage fighter...
He fought to the death. Toney’s known this MMA shit his whole life.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin
No
I’m saying plenty of fight analysts have said if Fighter X takes Fighter Y to the ground it’s game over. Yet Fighter X knocks Fighter Y’s head off. Example: Marquardt vs Maia.
I’m saying the likelyhood of a KO by Toney’s hands is higher than a takedown on Toney. Just everyone doesn’t take into consideration that it could happen.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Maia got caught throwing a kick not going for a take down.
bad example. In fact its hard (not impossible) find an example of a Ground guy getting caught closing the distance for a take down. All my fav BJJ guys always get caught “TRYING” to be a kickboxer.
Ralph Gracie vs Gomi
It happens fairly often. Sherk got caught every round going in on Franca.
The man known simply as "Christmas Cheesesteak"
It doesn't matter.
The fact is everyone, even Joe Rogan, said Maia was going to do this and that, going on and on about his BJJ and he gets knocked out. Regardless of how he was KO’d, he was KO’d.
And I wasn’t specifically pointing out how Maia was KO’d, just that he was KO’d without any form of ground work initiated.
However, if you want an example: Jaochim Hansen vs Masukazu Imanari. Takedown attempt only to be caught in the skull by a knee.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
for sure ,I worded that wrong
I am still kinda sore about that Maia fight. lol. sherk vs Penn too. Didnt bj catch him coming in for a take down?
this comment thread has really excited you huh?
by Postpubescent on Mar 8, 2010 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
I think it was more of a bumrush that caused Sherk to duck…but he may have been trying to shoot on BJ, hard to tell.
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 8, 2010 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
That is why the next generation of fighters will train younger i.e. Mayweather
—So if Boxing and/or MMA is still making big money. You could see Fighter X participating in an HBO/Showtime PPV under Top Rank, Goldenboy. Then the following months he also is fighting “Fighter Y for the yada-yada championship”. It can happen.
I can totally see Golden Glove Champions who are also ADCC, Grappler’s Quest, Naga champions in their respective weight classes.
I’ve seen weirder things happen in both sports.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
look at Machida
Awsome stand up , out wrestled tito , beat Rafel Lovato in a bjj match. Its not only possible ….Look at every ufc champ but brock. I say all of them could compete at a k1 level and an adcc level.
^ There you go. One believer.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
how does that make the sport less legitimate?
No one complains when people spend years in wrestling, then spend a few months learning strikes and submissions, or years in bjj and spend a few months learning striking.
Boxing is one of the ma’s in mma.
by Phildo on Mar 7, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I love toney as a boxer. I love boxing ….but to be real, boxing < bjj ,boxing < Muay Thai, Boxing < wrestling. I dont think I am the only one that feels this way OR this wouldnt be such a big deal. Boxing is all about angles and distance that are only for punches .their game is rather lacking for mma.
You're not
—Your style breakdown is common sense. However, a Boxer who becomes acclimated to the sport of MMA by training in the aforementioned styles can be quite dangerous if applied correctly. It’s not impossible.
But, a stone cold Boxer in MMA will have problems. And Toney doesn’t have the greatest leg work in the world.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
no he ducks.
Ask Pat berry what he does with people that duck his punches.
No one complains when people spend years in wrestling, then spend a few months learning strikes and submissions, or years in bjj and spend a few months learning striking.
Well for one, there’s no evidence that James Toney is actually rounding out his skills in any serious way.
Two, these converted wrestlers usually have better than 0-0 records by the time they make it to the big show.
And three, these converted wrestlers also tend to be a little younger than 41.
by JRN on Mar 8, 2010 7:06 AM EST up reply actions
Honestly
After I few more fights under his belt I wouldn’t mind seeing Mariusz Pudzianowski in the UFC if he could make the cut to 265
"The left hand brings death, but the right one even I am afraid of."-Mariusz Pudzianowski
Won't happen
—as long as the steroid policy is in effect in the States, Mariusz will not be making his USA debut anytime soon.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Except for the fact that he’s fighting in Boston in a couple of months.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
More power to Mariusz
—Always a way around that.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Of course
Just pointing out that he’ll be fighting domestically. I’ll be monitoring his test results with great interest.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
I prefer Blackout MD.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
he will pass
a retarded monkey could pass a piss test with 2 hrs notice. IMHO
Aslong as that Monkey hitches a ride on Joe Rogan's back, I'm there.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
You said it, not me
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
I am new this but..
thats one is a greater than sign right? because it should be lol
I wonder how long it will be until Mariusz ends up in Strikeforce.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Strikeforce???
LOL that would be interesting
"The left hand brings death, but the right one even I am afraid of."-Mariusz Pudzianowski
Probaby as long as it would take to beat Sylvia.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin
LOL. Poor Timmeh.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
So at the current rate.....
less than a minute.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 7, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
That's just about as long as it takes for Strikeforce to find a last minute replacement.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Just sayin...
It would be cool lol
"The left hand brings death, but the right one even I am afraid of."-Mariusz Pudzianowski
I agree. I'm in the same boat. Mariusz is huge.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Take a chill pill......
Look people freak show or not people want to see it. Kimbo, Toney………there’s a market for it and people want to see them fight. I consider myself to be a diehard….hardcore fan of mma. When Pride was in business I loved Pride more then I liked the UFC. Because Pride had the freak show fights which I loved. Former boxers, Pro wrestlers. UFC made a good move with Toney because it’s good business and it will be entertaining for us because toney’s going to get his own ass handed to him. Kudos the the UFC!!!!
We won't know for sure until we see it
—MMA fans are just as bad as Boxing fans when it comes to certain fighters. They start with the “Fighter X will get dominated by Fighter Y; he can’t last.” — yet when Fighter Y comes along and gets kayo’d or TKO’d by Fighter X, suddenly Fighter Y becomes a tomato can or something far worse.
If Toney makes a great showing, far more greater than Kimbo’s debut fight against Alexander then Toney is a legitimate UFC fighter.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
The outcome is........
inevitable!!!!! I understand that toney is a multi world champ in many weight classes in Boxing. But toney’s trying to convince us that he’s ready for MMA. That he can hang with the BIG boyz in the world of MMA. That right there makes him a FREAK. His mouth is going to get him in trouble and he will quickly be humbled in the octagon.
His mouth is what's making you, me and everyone else discuss it. He casted the bait and you took it. Hook, line and sinker.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
?????????
I don’t understand what your trying to say? I’m not against toney being in the UFC. I’m for it. He didn’t have to lure me into anything. I already knew who he was and what toney was all about before he went into mma.
I think a “FREAK” would have to be someone who isn’t in Boxing or MMA. Toney is a legitimate threat.
He lured you into talking about him being in MMA.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
??????????
Lured me…ok whatever you say buddy. Look….for example……the first UFC event back in 1992. Royce Gracie vs. boxer Art Jimmerson. Freak show not because of Gracie because of that one glove that Jimmerson wore into the match. Look boxres are on dimensional and in the short time that toney has to transition into mma he’ll get destroyed.
That was a legitimate MMA match, in every sense of the word
— Boxer vs Grappler. How was that a freakshow? That was your typical style vs style match-up just like Antonio Inoki vs Muhammed Ali.
As I said before, a Freakshow is between two people with no prior experience on the pro-level.
Toney is not a freakshow. He’s a professional Boxer.
Kimbo is a streetfighter turned MMArtist.
Herschel is a former professional football player turned MMArtist.
You see where I’m going with this? ..And yes, Toney did lure you. You knew who Toney was, you see he was bashing MMA, acquired an MMA contract now you’re curious to see how he would do. If that’s not casting the bait and getting hooked then I don’t know what is. I’m not trying to belittle you, bruh’ — don’t take offense.
You act like I don’t know Boxers are one-dimensional. You’re preaching to a choir. I never expected Toney to be some great MMArtist, however I am curious to see how well he does. If he wins by KO against some MMArtist with a losing streak, so be it. I’m sure there will be enough talk about his opponent being a tomato can, et cetera.
Unless he’s thrown in there against Cigano or Kongo or someone of some substance, we can’t really say what will happen aside from the obvious " He is one-dimensional " comment.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Truth ^
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Lucky punch
It will take one lucky punch. Look….. any good MMA fighter is not going to exchange blows with Toney. That would be just plain stupid. They will double leg that douchebag toney and Ju jitzu or wrestle his fat ass to the ground and wear him out.. I think kimbo even knows to not box him. Toney has a punchers chance and that’s about it.
LOL
That’s like saying a Wrestler won’t exchange punches with a dangerous striker.
Oops, Couture did and was KO’d twice by Liddell. Lesson learned, right?
Crazier things have happened. Plus, I doubt Dana will match him up with someone who has an insane ground game. It will be a fighter who is, more or less, proficient in striking: Kimbo, Buentello, Kongo, Yvel, CroCop. Not in that specific order obviously.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Agreed
IT’S more likely that he will be paired up with a striker. But that doesn’t mean that those strikers that you mentioned can’t transition to the ground. And I think those fighters can transition to the ground better than toney can.
Duh
They’re Mixed Martial Artists.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
ie kimbo vs Mercer
turns out, kimbo is smarter then tim
I think everyone is smarter than Timmeh
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
doubt that
powers the last to go. plus in 4 oz. glove my kid sis has knock out power.
about all Mercer did was KO people. Toney has a lot of KO’s in his career, but the vast majority came at much lower weights than he is now, and not withstanding a ko of greer last year and a tko of Holyfield in 04, he hasn’t knocked anyone out since August 02. Ray, on the other hand, was knocking people out right up til the end of his career. Toney has made the last years of his career volume punching, and can’t seem to win a major title without having it stripped from him for steroids.
yeah....... there are alll sorts of ways to pass those test chief.
you can even empty the bladder out then………. "place " clean urine back in the bladder.
do you guys remember what happened when olympics started blood testing? Lots of people started getting caught. Until then the tests are beatable
Toney vs. Terry Etim in an openweight special
The war of words would be unintelligible.
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
Toney Vs. Tito Ortiz
Whoever wins, Webster loses.
Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.
by P Brady on Mar 7, 2010 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Toney vs Ken Shamrock; winner pays Shamrock's legal fee's.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Toney's bald head vs Frye's Tom Selleck mustache.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Toney’s bald head v. Cyborg’s cornrows
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 7, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Cyborg's inflated clitoris i.e. Chyna 2.0*
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
No...
…I consider Herschel Walker more of a freakshow than James Toney, because Toney is at least an actual competitive fighter. If the UFC started considering Jose Canseco vs. somebody, that would be something else. That’s not to say the UFC’s signing of him was pure by any means. I think it was mainly to circumvent the possibility of Strikeforce signing him instead. Walker got ESPN exposure fighting the first time, and probably would’ve gotten it again fighting against Toney. Can’t let the competition get too much facetime. Now if they try to sign Conseco to screw w/ Strikeforce, then we have a problem…
I would cut myself and bleed out on the concrete if the UFC signed Conseco.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
walker is far more of a freak show than toney and the ufc doesnt have anyone even close to as bad as the guy sf fed to walker
by Richard Doughty on Mar 7, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Not going to happen in a MILLION years!!
Conseco will never be in the UFC. So I thing you won’t be bleeding anytime soon. Dana has more sense then that.
The Dude won Best Actor
HELL YA
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 7, 2010 11:33 PM EST reply actions
Great speech – rambling happiness, not the usual waterworks. Awesome. The Dude abides.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Mar 7, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
We said the samething in regards to Kimbo
—Now we have Toney.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
UFC is above any one fighter.
Stars have retired and the promotion keeps going. It’s more like the NFL and NBA. Dana has managed to make Kimbo and Lesnar work in the UFC.
Toney starts in the sport with the obvious label of washed up boxer. Let’s be real. Nobody has high hopes for him and the UFC isn’t buiding cards around him. Dana isn’t going to let the UFC get burned by a Toney fight.
UFC fights are like songs on the billboard charts…. you have your serious songs that will be played for a long time. And you have dumb-crazy-goofy pop songs that get a bunch of play now but are forgotten. A Toney fight would get some buzz now but would be forget really quickly. No need to get worked up over this.
March MMA Madness continues. Love it.
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 7, 2010 11:40 PM EST reply actions
Kimbo has yet to “work” in the UFC.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 7, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
Ratings are 'work' dude. He wasn't hired for his Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 7, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not suggesting he was hired for his BJJ
The comparison to Lesnar is beyond ridiculous. Yes they both are draws but that is it for the similarities so far. And even in that case Lesnar is a proven PPV draw and Kimbo drew big ratings on Spike, big difference.
Lesnar has “worked” because he has beat everyone he has faced and Kimbo is not there yet after beating Houston Alexander
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 7, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
by make 'work'... I meant business wise dude.
Toney contract was a business move.
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 7, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
but kimbo has only had 1 fight in the ufc so he wouldnt have had a chance to anyways
most guys coming out of tuf have a hand full of easy fights before they face anyone really legit
by Richard Doughty on Mar 7, 2010 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Even Kimbo knows he's not there yet
—A lot of these Kimbo-haters are throwing his name in the ring as if he’s pulling a Toney. Kimbo knows where he is, he just wanted a chance to be considered a legitimate MMArtist, not to be the next UFC HW Champion.
Toney is a whole different subject. He’s actually talking smack about individual fighters and knocking their talents. I wouldn’t put Kimbo and Toney in the same boat.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
I don’t have a problem with UFC putting on fights like these as long as they aren’t hanging PPV cards on them as main events. That’s where some of these other companies have made a mistake. But outside of that, they have little choice but to make something of them or let some other company make a quick buck on them before they fall apart.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
Like UFC 103 and UFC 108?
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
there wasnt a freak show fight on 108 or 103 just poor timing and injuries
by Richard Doughty on Mar 7, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
UFC plans PPV 3 or 4 months ahead.
They sign contracts for venues, PPV time, and so on. Fighters fall out they have to try and fill the spots. They don’t set out to make crappy PPV’s. they just run out of time.
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 8, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Sucks to be them.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Yeah, it must suck to make millions and millions of dollars per event.
by ufc4 on Mar 8, 2010 12:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Belts still considered most "important"
Until the UFC changes their focus from their titles and the real talent to these “freakshow” fights on a consistent basis, I’ll give em a pass. They have shown no real indication to build around toney and kimbo long term. They are building around true talent for the “fans” of the sport and sprinkle a little entertainment in sometimes for the masses.
Pretty much
Toney and Kimbo are appetizers.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
we all know there is no way kimbo can skate.
i think that was photoshoped….. i cant prove it. I just got a feeling its a fake.
Well....
The fact that he’s wearing MMA gloves in a hockey fight might be your first bit of proof that it’s fake. ;)
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Mar 8, 2010 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
in the next frame
Guida is laying on Kimbo while getting blasted from the bottom
by CaptainSpaulding on Mar 8, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Iz it bad?...
that i wanna see dudez w/ THREE armz and maybe even a tail and some hornz fight? Freak Show?? i say bring it on!!!
"If I told you I was good, you would think I am boasting. If I told you I was not good, you would know I am lying" Bruce Lee
THIS is a freak show fight!!!
VS.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 8, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
dude Faber is too small to fight toney.
you will have to find another ball-chin-ian to fight him.
Comment sections have gone to shit around BE lately. Whoever Toney fights in the UFC, it won’t be a freak show. He has a background in COMBAT sports, just like a wrestler, a BJJ guy. Boxing just happens to be an unorthodox jump into the MMA game.
Maybe his advanced age has something to do with it?
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by MostDiabolicalHater on Mar 8, 2010 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
If you are gonna fag me atleast hit reply on one of my comments.
it doesnt really make sense to say “rayce,stfu” to Riney. Get it?
P.S. No lol
I love Toney in the UFC.
Toney IS A CHAMPION!!!! and a future boxing hall of famer. I say we give him our 46 yr old. style vs style . I love these fights.
He'z the first boxer to man up and step in the cage... letz all just watch and see what happenz....
"If I told you I was good, you would think I am boasting. If I told you I was not good, you would know I am lying" Bruce Lee
Like some others have said, this will probably have no serious effect whatsoever on the sport of MMA.
However, it is hilarious to see some folks try to maintain their idealized picture of the UFC in light of this. No, see, it can’t be a freakshow cuz…. he was a good boxer a few years ago! They’ll put him against somebody virtually guaranteed to crush him, which makes it better somehow! It’ll be style vs. style, just like the UFCs fifteen years ago, which also makes it better somehow! etc. etc.
I wouldn't mind seeing Lashley vs. Pudzianowski on Showtime
In the case of any other freak show fights, Japan has taught us the freakshow fights work. You have to be extremely elitist to hate a freakshow fight. Freakshows havealways been a part of MMA. Why change that now?
It hasn’t surprised me in the least that the Toney signing has received such a negative response from the “online mma community”. Traditionally, this group is among the most insecure of fans you’re likely to find anywhere, and anything that threatens to increase exposure of “their” sport is met with similar hysterics….i.e. the UFC’s original expansion, TUF, the signing for Brock Lesnar, ect…ect… Sites like this have all at one time or another claimed that all these things would “ruin their sport”. These people claim that since Toney isn’t likely to challenge for any titles then this is all a waste or some kind of “freakshow.” But even if Toney never challenges for any title…so what? Neither will 95% of the current UFC roster….are their fights “freakshows”? The complete overreaction to this is simply insane. If nothing else, maybe some boxing fans will check out whatever event Toney participates in and this brings in more fans. Perhaps people on here don’t need to be “educated” on how complex mma really is compared to boxing, but most people (especially hardcore boxing fans) still don’t appreciate that, so perhaps this is just a step in that direction. And exactly how this is supposed to “ruin” MMA still has not been explained with any level of clarity, but that doesn’t prevent the usual gang of idiots from blabbering on about it. Why don’t we relax and see what comes of this before making yet another completely irrational and premature decision about it?
Pretty horrible article by Fowlkes, honestly it just seems to me that alot of writers these days are way too negative and quick to made ridiculous claim which leads me to this gem.
Dana has to be careful or he could burn out the media and fans on MMA and the UFC with too much freak show and not enough quality sport.
Let’s look at the UFC 111-UFC 115 cards, do you see any freakshow fights? no because the UFC doesn’t do freakshow fights. People seem to have tossed around that word so much that they don’t even know what it means. The UFC puts on the biggest and best fights possible, this Toney just like Kimbo will either sink or swim on their fighting ability and that’s what mma should be about.
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