James Toney Interested in Fighting Randy Couture, Will Likely Debut on UFC 115 or 116
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 5, 2010 8:07 AM EST
in MMA News
Email
Print
James Toney, after finding out that Randy Couture wants to fight him:
Damn…oh really? That's what I'm talking about. That's right up my alley. Oh, hell yeah! ...Let me tell you something, I came to the UFC to do one thing and that's to fight the best out there. If it's Couture, so be it. If it's somebody else, so be it. Let's get it on and popping. When Dana White said MMA fighters are better than boxers, come on now, you know better than that.
All day! The fights start standing and that's my comfort zone all day, you heard me. If they think they going to rush me to the ground and think it's going to be easy and I don't know what I'm doing, come on man. I'm a very strong man. I know what I have to do and if they shoot in on me, they getting launched into outer space like a satellite.
Juanito Ibarra, he's good man; that motherf*cker know his shit. He got Rampage to the top and we gonna do the same thing. I'm going to destroy these dudes. If Randy Couture put on his Twitter page that he wants to see me, tell him it ain't shit. Let's make it happen. If not in June, he can be the one after that.
They talking about June or July, so I'll be ready. That still gives me plenty of time, you know what I'm saying?
UFC 115 is on June and is rumored to be headlined by the third bout between TUF 11 coaches, Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz, while UFC 116 which is on July, and is rumored to be the return of the UFC's biggest PPV draw, Brock Lesnar. If Toney's fight indeed pushes through on either date, it looks like he's going to be fighting along side the UFC's biggest stars.
Toney is already excellent at playing the heel and hyping up this boxing vs MMA shtick, but even in his own sport he hasn't really been a proven draw. In fact, he has been having trouble getting boxing fights recently, and it probably played a part in making him decide to sign with the UFC. There will surely be boxing fans and a few casuals who will purchase their first UFC PPV for the simple fact that a boxing champ, albeit a faded one, is competing, but it is yet to be seen how huge and significant that cross-over appeal really is.
That being said, being backed up by the UFC promotional machine, being paired up against someone like Couture, and being on the same card with a Liddell or a Lesnar caliber draw, will probably guarantee great results. How much of those can be attributed to Toney though -- we'll have to wait and see, but if you ask him about it, he says people are going to be asking for more:
Ah man, you know it's going to be through the roof. People want to see this. To all my haters out there, I love you. Keep hating because you gonna make my buy rate go up... I train every day, 2 to 3 times a day. I'm doing my thing, so you know what? Whatever they bring, I got something for 'em.
Dana is a business man and he's done a great job with the UFC and he brought it back to the top of the game. Now he has the top dog in boxing in his organization and it's going to flourish even more now. Like I said, I'm already a heavyweight boxing champion and now I'm coming to the UFC. I'm bringing everything: excitement, charisma and pizzazz. They gonna love it and they gonna need more, you know what I'm saying?
HT: Fight Hype
132 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
There’s also a rumor from Carmichael Dave, about a Toney vs Kimbo match to counter program Strikeforce, but unless they just started talking to him after the Fight Hype interview, it looks like it isn’t true. Probably too soon for Toney to debut also I guess..
I think Kimbo will be on the card with Swick/Serra, but I doubt it will be against Toney.
Randy Couture is one of the worst possible matchups there is for Toney. Randy will get Toney up against the cage and/or in the clinch and get his dirty boxing going on and then he will proceed to lay on him like a lil fag while throwing more punches.
that’s exactly what he needs for his wake up call. some nice GnP leading to a sub. Please Please let Randy welcome this jerkoff to MMA. I want someone who will take him down and smother him for a round or so before he finishes it to make his point. I just wanna see the looks on Toney and his boys when the ultimate death fighter goes down to a dude older than he is
by BradCr on Mar 5, 2010 5:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Cause thats what fags do right?
Take their lover down, press them up against a cage and punch them in the face repeatedly. Dumbass
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 5, 2010 5:37 AM EST up reply actions
Ignore me I'm stupid
Those were his words not yours, I apologize. Need to take my dumbass to bed…
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 5, 2010 5:46 AM EST up reply actions
Toney vs. the English Language
It’s got slobberknocker written all over it.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Mar 5, 2010 4:30 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Toney’s gonna have to wait his turn, Tito hasn’t finished his trilogy yet.
by ufc4 on Mar 5, 2010 8:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
English Language -220
combine that with the Piss Test being a -150 favorite over Toney and you’ve got yourself a pretty solid parlay.
Do you mind if we dance with your dates?
In Morey We Trust.
Toney by flying side check kick for the upset
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 5, 2010 5:38 AM EST up reply actions
june or july i think he will be on the july 3rd show with brock. bound to do huge numbers
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
I hope they have him on a non-Brock show
That way they can gauge his drawing power without Brock’s monstrous influence.
by asa on Mar 5, 2010 6:17 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know how I feel about this if randy mentaly stumbles at all n decides to stand he could be put out nog was working him n altho I don’t like him toney would probly do worse also afraid randy gets uppercuted by toney going for clinch
by ldglass on Mar 5, 2010 6:02 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Bad fight for Randy
I agree for all the points you’ve mentioned. While I don’t think Randy would stand, I agree his style is bad against a boxer who’s not gonna be afraid of getting hit like a Gonzaga or Vera. His range-closing doesn’t seem like it would mix well with JT. The only person I think could train him for this fight is already training his opponent. Maybe Rogerio?
by asa on Mar 5, 2010 6:15 AM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure both you guys are wrong here. Frankly, all Randy has to do is get a clinch, something that Toney will be very open to, and it’s pretty well over. Hell, Randy could probably throw a couple of leg kicks and then go for a single or double leg takedown off of a fake. He doesn’t have to stand in Toney’s limited range and get punched. Inside in the clinch, Randy wins, either because his dirty boxing and fence work is better or because he puts Toney on the ground; from range outside boxing range, Toney has nothing. Randy may not be the master of kicks or anything, but he’s guaranteed to be more familiar with them than Toney.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 5, 2010 7:27 AM EST up reply actions
I actually agree with you
Frankly, all Randy has to do is get a clinch, something that Toney will be very open to
I actually agree with you in the first bit, but not the ease of it. To get there he has to go through straight-punching range, hooking range, and then he still has to deal with Toney’s sick uppercuts and inside hooks. I think even at this age he’s a faster striker than Randy is a wrestler or striker. That said, I think the clinch Randy normally looks for will be gone against Toney. Replaced with a takedown and a sub.
Hell, Randy could probably throw a couple of leg kicksI’m seeing visions of Demian Maia and Timmah. While I expect Randy to be tactically prepared, I’m also assuming Juanito will do his homework as well.
I’m hoping this is a dominant win for the Captain, but I still have to emotionally prepare for a clap inside or a clip while coming in.
by asa on Mar 5, 2010 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
If Toney is going backwards, Randy can walk through his punches and into the clinch with ease. If Toney comes forwards, he’s getting shot on and taken down. If Toney stands still, he gets kicked.
As for Ibarra, his part in this is being overplayed, I think. Toney isn’t known for being a smart fighter; he’s a brawler who weathers storms and then punches in high volume in return. And he only has, really, a few months of training MMA to try and catch all the nuances of the game. Then, on top of that, there’s the fact that Juanito is really, really good at taking MMA fighters and adding boxing to their game; there’s really very little evidence that he’s good at doing things the other way around.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 5, 2010 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
If Toney is going backwards, Randy can walk through his punches … If Toney stands still, he gets kicked.
The Randy who got dropped by Slo-Mogieura? I can only see it if he keeps his hands high and tight, and does none of that exposed head movement. And his hips have never seemed fluid enough for practical kicking while moving.
While Toney’s not a technician in the boxing world he’s on another level than Randy as far as efficacy. His chin can wade through Randy’s strikes whereas Randy drops from any shot to the dome lately. Not just chin shots.
And while I see what you mean about Ibarra, I gotta think he can motivate people to push themselves on another level. If he got Rampage to work hard in the gym we have to assume he has magical powers!
Obviously the last bit wasn’t serious, but I seriously hope you’re right. I’m trying to see this from Juanito’s perspective considering what he’s got to work with in Toney. I thin it should be a good challenge for Randy. You make all the right points, but there are counters and Randy’s speed and brain bowl are not on his side.
by asa on Mar 5, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
They clinch in boxing all the time.
I think Toney can handle it. Now if he manages to end up on his back is another story.
by HappyLittleTreez on Mar 5, 2010 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
yeah
but the clinch in boxing doesn’t involve grappling, in MMA it’s a big part of the clinch game.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
well said
I think Toneys power is being way overvaulued to. He was always a slick boxer but never had great power.
by xbuckeyex05 on Mar 5, 2010 11:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Randy might lose the fight but it won’t be from an improperly executed gameplan.
by ufc4 on Mar 5, 2010 8:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Did he have a proper gameplan against Brock Lesnar? Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera?
Nyet.
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
by VeeisAnimated on Mar 5, 2010 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Just because he lost doesn't mean he didn't have a gameplan.
Lets face it, at this point in his career Couture isn’t as strong a fighter as Lesnar (who is?) and Nog…so acting like those losses are game plan based probably isn’t fair. James Toney isn’t anywhere in the range of Lesnar or Nog and in terms of MMA he will be about as one dimensional as it gets, which lends itself to game planning.
If Toney can get sanctioned for boxing still (something mercer cant seem to get)then they will probably allow this fight.
by who me on Mar 5, 2010 10:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thank you, he may have had a great gameplan and just wasn’t able to properly execute it. Like I said, Toney could beat him, but it’s not gonna be because Randy does something stupid like try to stand and trade with him.
by ufc4 on Mar 5, 2010 9:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cool, acting like those losses are game plan based isn’t fair . . . BUT
Couture said, that his game plan was to stand and box with Lesnar and take him out of his comfort zone. But he admitted that he completely neglected Lesnar’s reach. Did he not watch Lesnar vs. Herring?
Couture said after his loss to Noguiera that he felt he was better than Noguiera in the striking department. Even after the 1st round Couture tried to strike with Noguiera. Of course he conceded that he Nog was better. Maybe the Nog fight didn’t demonstrate the lack of gameplanning but definitely the ability to adapt during a fight.
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
by VeeisAnimated on Mar 5, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
To be fair...
if you were Couture going into those fights (Lesnar and Nog) would you plan on fighting on the ground or standing?
Couture made the right plan, it just turns out that Lesnar and Nog are better than him in both the ground game as well as the stand up game.
Lesnar:
His first fight against Mir told me that he has power-obvious, Herring taught me that he has a reach. Make him expend a lot of energy moving that bulk around. Yes, I know he is fast and can move that muscle but Randy looked good in the clinch with Lesnar.
Striking with Lesnar . . . use low and high leg kicks. Just make sure you close the distance. Couture’s striking problems is his tendency to duck his head at at angle, he place himself on the end of Lesnar’s jab.
Noguiera:
I simply thought Noguiera was just better all around. I give Couture a lot of credit for making it a fight. I thought Nog was going to stop him. Gameplan, I have no idea what he could have done to win that fight.
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
by VeeisAnimated on Mar 5, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
I think Randy's gameplan against Brock was excellent.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Lesnar?
Yes he did, tire him out against the cage, do everything possible to avoid striking. Problem was, his gameplan required the fight to go deep, whereas Brock only needed one punch. Still, up to that point, Randy was doing VERY well, Brock had trouble controlling him, and you could tell that Brock was getting tired.
Randy didn’t win a single full minute of the fight leading up to the KO. He was taken down several times and never landed a meaningful blow. He never took down Brock and never was in a position where he was pushing him.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 5, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Its just hilarious that 3oney thinks td defense is inate or something..from experience when I was training the grounddfighting portion of mma has the biggest learing curve..im 6’ 3’’ and at the time about 245 lbs and at first I was getting ragdolled by guys I outweighed by 40 lbs..goood luck with an olympic caliber wrestler james….
by longevity on Mar 5, 2010 6:19 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Some people just naturally have good balance and instincts though. Not everyone’s built the same. His body type is short and stout, on top of that he’s strong as a mofo…I think he’s going to be harder to take down than people think.
by HappyLittleTreez on Mar 5, 2010 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
James Toney’s pizzazz level is through the roof.
GIVE UP?! GIVE UP?!
by Big4Nuthin' on Mar 5, 2010 6:27 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Randy via GnP after Toney gives him rubber legs cause Randy tried to trade with him and finally came to his senses. You know what I’m saying?
by rolex81 on Mar 5, 2010 6:36 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Please give this fool to Jon Jones.
What I wouldn’t give to see Bones toss him around for part of a round and then lay some vicious borderline illegal ground and pound on JT’s ass.
by Razreshat on Mar 5, 2010 8:23 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
James Toney isn’t a very heavy hitter.
He’ll also have to change his entire boxing style since right now he likes to go into his shell against the ropes and shoulder roll. If he tries to just spend time covering up he’s going to get taken down since it isn’t only punches coming at him.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 5, 2010 8:28 AM EST reply actions
I don’t see Toney being willing or able to change his style after 80-something pro fights.
by ufc4 on Mar 5, 2010 8:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yep, even with the small gloves I don’t think Toney is going to be a huge one shot knock out threat to most guys. Point boxing isn’t going to get him anywhere in MMA, he’s going to have to change everything he does to even be competitive with low level guys.
If they give him Randy first then it’s pretty obvious they aren’t going the freakshow/special attraction route with him at least. It really would be put up or shut up against one of the best in MMA. That would be a very different message than giving him Kimbo out of the gate. Of course my personal favorite would be Toney vs Roy Nelson, there would be nothing more humbling for Toney than to get crucifixed by the massive gut and pounded out.
So, wait; Randy Couture vs. James Toney wouldn’t be a special attraction nor a freakshow?
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 5, 2010 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
Randy Couture vs James Toney would be a fight to actually tell us something about James Toney. Heck it would be classic wrestler vs striker which goes back to the very essence of MIXED Martial Arts. If James Toney can beat Randy Couture then I think it would show that he may actually be able to have a career in MMA (if only a short one due to his age). In terms of special attractions this would be closer to Cro Cop first moving from K-1 to MMA and trying to make a go out of it or Cung Le’s Strikeforce career than a one time only fight like Hughes vs Gracie. James Toney is already a very experienced prize fighter, he’s not switching careers here he’s just moving to a different kind of fighting sport. Heck the biggest knock on Toney coming in should be that he is just way too old to make the switch but if he’s fighting Randy then he will be the younger fighter by 5 years.
That was a very big block of text to defend such an opinion, but I completely disagree. Couture might be old, but he is relevant. He’s a hall of famer. James Toney has a lot more against him than just age in terms of being legitimate competition for a guy who has beaten Brandon Vera and Mark Coleman in succession. He has zero experience in any grappling sport, much less MMA. I don’t even think you can compare it to the gold medalists and karate stars the Japanese throw to the lions immediately. At least they’re in shape.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 5, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Toney is way too old to come in as a MMA prospect, honestly if he wants to make a go at this there is only the brock lesnar path for him to take, otherwise it really goes nowhere or means anything(key things when discussing freakshows). Fighting Randy is pretty much a quick yes or know answer as to whether he will get anywhere with MMA. Yes I believe he will lose and yes I think the whole thing is a joke but at least a serious fight against a serious opponent gets it right out there and answers the questions real quick. If Toney can win or even be competitive then they might have something here and if not then we are done with this. Lord who wants to see them take it slow and try to develop a fourty year old boxer? That’s just a logical take on a bad situation.
by who me on Mar 5, 2010 10:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If you think the whole thing is a joke, how can you not readily admit this is a freakshow? Do you really believe James Toney is going to play this seriously when he isnt even committed fulltime to MMA? Unless someone is paying you, I don’t see why you’d deny the obvious.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 5, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
I think the degree of freakshow in this depends heavily...
on how the UFC handles the matchmaking.
Toney v Kimbo will be more freakshow than not, and derail Kimbo’s progress as a legit MMA fighter…if that is ever going to occur.
Toney v Couture feels more like an exhibition and a test of one sport verses another. Two legends of their sports fighting it out.
Kimbo being a “legit MMA fighter” by whatever criteria you’re using might never happen.
Look, Toney isn’t going to train in combat grappling full time if at all prior to fighting in a few months. His best asset as a fighter right now is his ability to talk trash, not fight. Its a freakshow.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 5, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
No, no, no
Its different, you see because: (insert longwinded justification because its the ufc)
I think what everyone that was so distraught about Herschel Walker fighting is realizing is that a marginal freakshow isn’t so bad once in awhile, as long as its not the trend.
I don’t think Toney’s past boxing fame detracts from the inherent freakshow nature of it at all… its utterly ridiculous. I hope Mike Tyson starts stalking Dana now.
insert longwinded justification because its the ufc
Has nothing to do with anything at all. Now if he was in Strikeforce apparently they would of had him fighting Herschel Walker in a utterly meaningless fight but lets say they put Toney against Arlovski then you would have something that could actually mean something in the sport. If the UFC puts Toney against Kimbo right out of the gate then it’s obvious they are in it for the cheap ratings bump and this will be exactly what people are saying it is.
Herschel Walker is never going to fight anyone good or get within smelling distance of a MMA ranking, heck by this time next year he will probably be off doing something else. He’s good publicity due to him being such a nice guy but he’s not actually participating in the sport he’s just fighting amateur level on major events due to name recognition for the sake of proving that he can. Hell Walker isn’t even a fighter, he’s a retired football player who trained for 3 months. That’s a huge difference here.
So if Herschel fought Arlovski, that wouldn’t be a freakshow? It would be a legitimate fight to determine Walker’s skill level?
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 5, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
Walker isn’t a professional fighter and he has never been one in any combat sport, we know his skill level going into the sport already and we know that he is never going to make any impact at all in terms of the actual sport no matter who he fights. Walker isn’t fighting MMA to try and climb up the rankings or win a belt he’s fighting MMA because he wants to prove that he isn’t too old to do it, he isn’t actually even participating in the sport he’s just had a utterly meaningless fight that will go nowhere and will mean nothing at all in terms of sport rankings or division placement. Him fighting Arlovski is never going to happen anyway because he’s not even doing this to try and test himself against top fighters to start with.
Because I think it’s a joke due to the guy being 41 years old and past his prime in boxing, I have no problem with a boxer coming to MMA. To me a freakshow is a fight that means nothing between comically mismatched opponents (such as the whole super hulk tournament) not just a world champion boxer fighting a former world champion MMA artist. I never viewed Pride bring in guys from different combat sports and throwing them to the lions with MMA guys as freakshow fights, now when they brought in 400lb lugs to fight 200lb fighters in fights that meant absolutely nothing at all to the sport or either fighter’s careers in it then you have something completely different. I mean this isn’t like Cro Cop fighting a masked Dos Caras, Jr. here.
This would be a comical mismatch that’s being sold off of one guy’s athletic accomplishments 7-10 years ago and his ability to talk trash. Is there any evidence of anything else?
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 5, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
James Toney is the current IBA heavyweight champion( I think he may be the NABO champion too). Although that doesn’t really mean much it does mean something. It’s not like Randy would be fighting a 400lb guy or a masked wrestler Bob Sapp here, it’s a world champion boxer who is actually half a decade younger than Randy is. Lets face it the same things were said about Brock Lesnar right up until he became world champion, it was a freakshow and he didn’t belong in the sport and now he’s considered one of the best MMA fighters in the world. Yea Toney will most likely get whooped and then go home (and isn’t that what most people want anyway, why are people complaining that he may fight a guy who will send him packing almost immediately? Do you want him to stay around for 5 contracted fights?)but fighting Couture will answer all the questions real quick and get this over with. It’s not like the Japanese freakshows because even if the giant guy won he wasn’t ever going to do anything in the division anyway(Giant Silva was never going to get a title shot no matter what he did in Pride), if Toney beats someone like Randy Couture then he will be in the thick as a MMA fighter.
You’re out of your element here. Toney lost multiple fights as IBA champion. He still has the belt. You’re arguing that means something? Please.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 6, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
The IBA belt doesn’t mean much at all anyway but the fact that every interview and story says Toney is a world champion does mean something to this. I mean if you want to argue that the way boxing belts works is stupid then I will agree completely but the dude being a champion is what people are saying.
The IBA belt works as a promotional tool. That lazy journos bring it up doesn’t mean it establishes exceptional value to Toney as a boxer right now.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 7, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
If they give him Randy first then it’s pretty obvious they aren’t going the freakshow/special attraction route with him at least. It really would be put up or shut up against one of the best in MMA.
Interesting… let me try an experiment.
If they give [Zuluzinho] Fedor first then it’s pretty obvious they aren’t going the freakshow/special attraction route with him at least. It really would be put up or shut up against one of the best in MMA.
Now, why doesn’t that sound quite right?
by JRN on Mar 5, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
Well except for the fact that they gave Zulu to Fedor for Zulu’s 15th professional MMA fight not his first and the fact that much of the freakshow aspect of that fight came from Zuluzinho weighing 200lbs more than Fedor did, oh and lets not forget the fact that Fedor had been the Pride world champion for two years and was just coming off beating Cro Cop at the time. So no this situation and that situation really don’t have much in common at all.
Hmmm, Sherdog lists Fedor as Zulu’s fourth pro fight, not his 15th.
Anyway, my point is this: a large disparity in MMA experience and stature between two competitors makes it more of a freakshow, not less.
Fedor vs. Zuluzinho is more of a freakshow than Zulu vs. [some other 3-0 dude who probably beat up a bunch of nobodies in obscure vale tudo events]
Likewise, Couture vs. Toney is more of a freakshow than Toney vs. I don’t know, Rolles Gracie?
by JRN on Mar 5, 2010 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
Could be, I don’t see it that way, it’s all just pure opinion so there are going to be people who see it differently.
Zulu outweighed Fedor by more than Brock Lesnar outweighs Miguel Torres, even if Zulu had won it would of just been a fat guy falling on Fedor. The whole thing was a joke, the best fighter in the world fighting a fat guy just because the guy was fat, same as Fedor fighting Choi just because Choi was so much larger. If Zulu hadn’t swallowed a Pizza Hut as a child then he would of never got to fight Fedor in the first place. The Japanese love these fights because they are “size” mismatches. Hell Bob Sapp has made a entire career out of just being a really big guy in Japan.
As far as Toney vs Rolles Gracie, yea it would be a better path to take but James Toney is 41 years old, it’s way too late to treat him like a MMA prospect. It’s either he takes the Brock Lesnar path in MMA or he gets his ass kicked immediately and goes away. If the UFC actually wants him to go anywhere in the sport then he has to do it now. Toney vs Couture gets us an answer real quick as to whether James Toney can do anything at all in MMA.
The Brock Lesnar path is spending a couple years training for MMA and then taking a easy fight to establish that you have some modicum of skill. It isn’t “fight top ranked guy right away”.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 5, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Brock took a year before his first fight in Dream (he still was stuck under the WWE no compete clause when he announced he was going to fight MMA). Of course Dream wanted him to fight Choi but then Dream is a damn mess so it’s no wonder it took them a year to get him a fight with a “lesser opponent”, his second fight was against a world champion in the UFC and his fourth fight was for a title belt. So if Toney fought Mostapha Al Turk first and Randy as his second fight you would be ok with that? Would that mean anything at all different besides that we would have to have that much extra time listening to the guys mouth? The only thing Brock’s first fight did was get him the UFC’s attention and Toney didn’t need that so why not just take the same first UFC fight step as Brock did and go after a real opponent?
His second fight was not against a world champion. His second fight was against a former world champion who looked to be totally washed up. Not a top 10-15 fighter, but a guy who was on the outside of the top 30.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 6, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Being a world champion and being a former world champion is a big difference. Ricco Rodriguez is a former world champion. Is it mere semantics that separate him from Brock Lesnar?
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 7, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Could be, I don’t see it that way
Really? Because upthread, you said this:
To me a freakshow is a fight that means nothing between comically mismatched opponents
That is exactly what Toney vs. Couture would be.
As far as Toney vs Rolles Gracie, yea it would be a better path to take but James Toney is 41 years old, it’s way too late to treat him like a MMA prospect.
Exactly. He’s a washed up steroid-using possibly brain-damaged 41-year-old MMA debutante, trading on his old reputation, and he’s not going to be treated like the 0-0 MMA rookie he is. So clearly they ARE taking the “freakshow/special attraction route” with him.
by JRN on Mar 6, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, whatever. As I said to be honest I just don’t care that much about it anyway I just don’t see it as a comical fight.
I know exactly what James Toney is and I am fine with him fighting someone who will put him down and out of the UFC. I don’t see where that is comical at all and it will definately prove if older boxers need to even consider MMA as a second career or not, that will mean a hell of a lot to both sports. Toney vs Kimbo proves nothing about either guy and probably means that James Toney has a even longer career in the UFC than just one fight.
What about Hong Man Choi? Has a win on paper against Schilt in K-1. Was 1-0 when he came to fight Fedor. We were gonna learn if Choi could really compete with the big boys, right?
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 5, 2010 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
Why are you guys acting like Couture today is as good as prime Fedor? That’s completely ridiculous. There’s a big difference between a guy fighting the undisputed #1 fighter in his class and a guy like Couture who is maybe 15th best.
by ufc4 on Mar 5, 2010 10:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You are trying so hard to rationalize this bout, and I don’t know why. James Toney is a fat washed up boxer with no MMA experience. Fighting a HOF 5 time champ currently ranked in the top 15….how is this better than Mercer/Sylvia? All those gold medalists used as fodder in PRIDE? You compare it to Cung Le, but Le never ever fought anyone near as good as Couture is at this moment, much less debuted against someone at that level.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 5, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Cung Le fought Frank Shamrock for a title belt. How good do you think Randy Couture is now?
Why are you trying to work so hard to push your point? I was just bored on my day off and decided to talk about MMA, to be honest I don’t really give a shit about this at all beyond that the conversation is interesting, you seem to be blowing a fuse that someone disagreed with your opinion for some reason.
Randy Couture now is obviously at a higher level than Frank Shamrock of now, 2 years ago, or 5 years ago. C’mon. You know better than that.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 5, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
Did people think that back when the Cung Le fight was signed? In hindsight we know Frank was shot even back then but at the time people though he was still a world beater. What will be think about the 2010 Randy Couture in 2012?
No one saw Shamrock as a top 10-15 middleweight. It is preposterous to claim otherwise.
by VirtualBalboa on Mar 6, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, in the last few days there seems to be a crowd reacting to this signing with the belief that boxers are these mythical fighters with incredibly heavy hands and indestructible jaws. Iole’s claiming Toney will have the best chin in the UFC and I’ve seen others say that he’ll be the hardest hitter to ever step foot in the octagon. I’d be shocked if Toney could punch harder than Rampage, especially at 41 years old with a doughy physique.
That is a good point
a good chin taking punches with 16 oz gloves compared to 4 oz gloves is a whole different world..I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets kod after taking multiple leg kicks…hope he likes the taste of humble pie..I am interested to see a dynamic lighter younger top fighter cross over though….Kelly Pavlick type…any suggestions on some others?
by longevity on Mar 5, 2010 9:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Boxers are just more skilled with their hands but James Toney is far from a power-puncher.
Doughy physique? How many MMA fighters have already proved that their appearance has nothing to do with their power . . . see Nelson vs. Schaub
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
by VeeisAnimated on Mar 5, 2010 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
"Boxers are just more skilled with their hands "
Can someone point me to where this is proven? I mean everyone takes this as gospel, but I have yet to see hard evidence.
Some boxers, maybe, but frankly MMA fighter have to be ready to do more with their hands than just punch and block punches, so their fighting appears sloppier…but in terms of just boxing I really have to wonder how they would do will just a little preparation.
You definitely have a point, I’ll concede that.
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
by VeeisAnimated on Mar 5, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Boo! DO NOT WANT!
I cant believe Couture wants this fight. Will this launch him into title shot contention? lol Knowing Dana it would. Lamesauce.
I'm gonna make a bold prediction here and say Cain "pillowhands" (as some of you have called him) lol Velasquez catches Nog right on the chin and finishes via strikes on the ground. Nog looked good against an old Randy. It didn't show me much. We’ll see.
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Randy knows he isn’t going to be the champ again. He likes a good pay day just like the next guy. He also likes to challenge himself and be the guy that can say he stepped up and beat a HW boxer. Just like he is also willing to fight A. Silva or Machida. He enjoys the challenge of figuring out a way to beat someone.
thanks to that contract he got at ufc 101, he’s getting nothing but good paydays no matter what
by kanodogg on Mar 5, 2010 12:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dana, Make It Happen
Evidently, James Toney is going to continue to talk crap until he enters the Octagon for the 1st time.
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
If this fight does happen will it happen at 205?
randy is staying at 205 for the possiblity of a title fight. I wonder if Toney is able to make the cut. I know dana wants him to , but is it possible? I dont know if toney has any weight cutting experince.
Couture will win
I think Couture’s cardio will be a big factor in the fight. i dont think he is gonna be able to match Toney’s standup, but at the same time, I dont think he is that far off in terms of striking with Toney. I think Couture is gonna win by decision.
Which self-respecting athletic commission is going to sanction this fight?
Unless they do it in Abu Dhabi?
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
who's the one guy in nevada
Athletic commission guy…….ferrol..no that’s not it, fermica…. no no… his dad was in the casino biz….. someone help me out here.
by Rayce. on Mar 5, 2010 10:09 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Come on, athletic commisions are FAR from standing on high moral grounds.
Let’s not forget that we often see highly skilled K-1 kickboxers enter the Octagon against a collegiate wrestler, grappler or BJJ specialist.
There’s nothing crazy about a professional MMA fighter (46) versus a professional boxer (41) with over 80+ fights under his doughy gut.
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
by VeeisAnimated on Mar 5, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Liveblog of Couture-Toney:
Round 1: Toney immediately takes the center of the octagon. Couture circling while Toney throws a few jabs to judge the distance. Couture fakes the double leg and clinches when Toney tries to defend it. Couture trips Toney and immediately moves into mount. Couture raining down punches. Toney tries to escape and gives up his back. Couture sinks in the rear naked choke. Toney taps!
You forgot....
Toney gets up and strings together an amazing homophobic rant about fighting on the ground when he gets ahold of the mic.
will go out the window when Toney’s taken down on his ass. You know what I’m saying?
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Mar 5, 2010 10:07 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I do know what you are saying!!!!
I hope its a old school Greco suplex and he lands on his head. Randy Couture winner due to KO via suplex.
by Rayce. on Mar 5, 2010 10:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Toney has
trouble finding boxing matches because he is awkward, has a great defense, rolls and weaves A LOT and can make people look bad. He just isn’t worth the risk of losing an ugly decision to at this point. The up side of beating him doesn’t outweigh looking bad in a decision win/lose.
by Riney on Mar 5, 2010 10:13 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm not 100% Randy would win
Ther r so many questions. I’m not sure Toney would have a problem with Randy’s clinch and brawl style. I don’t know shit about Toney but Randys no world beater on the feet.
I think if Randy took it to the ground he’d win handly, but who knows. I guess that’s why it makes for an intresting fight.
by JimJoe on Mar 5, 2010 10:33 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Neither am I
I am 200% sure. So my extra 100 should make up for your missing percentage.
NO WORRIES HOMIE I GOTS YA BACK. Lol
Stoney for sure is a skilled fighter but so was vitor. (Who’s hands I believe exceed the speed of light?) He will be put down ,punched in the face ,and tkoed or submitted. In that order.
by Rayce. on Mar 5, 2010 11:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If you saw JRIB you know why Dana made this signing. Now ESPN is talking about the UFC and talking about how a boxer will do vs an MMAer. Exactly what the UFC needs to be considered / go mainstream. The only concern would be if Toney wins by knocking out 3 big names in a row and then retiring from the UFC saying its beneath him. Odds of that happening are about the same as Toney submitting someone.
As a side note if i’m training him in the ground game the ONLY thing i’m teaching him is how to do Roy Nelsons squish a guy with your belly and tap him on the head until the ref stops it move.
The "countra-fix" can not be learned in that short of a time period.
Just cause country love tapped limbo(because he.didn’t want to hurt his hand in the first round of the tourney he won) , don’t think he can’t bring the thunder. Ask mcsweeney
by Rayce. on Mar 5, 2010 11:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I actually hope someone tries to box him. I don’t like Kimbo against him, because Kimbo is a boxer, but not world class. I want to see someone like Couture. The fact is, as good as Toney is, someone like Silva is just as good at boxing as he is. It is no different than when NFL running backs race against short track sprinters. NFL running backs are just as fast, if not faster. I would love to see some capoeira dance fighting to mock Toney.
Liddell / Ortiz III plus Toney vs whoever is the worst UFC event ever.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Since you've already looked into the future
and determined this was “the worst UFC event ever”, can you at least tell us who won all the fights so we can make some money?
If I have to hear one more black guy say “you know what I’m saying?” I may just have to put a gun to my head.
you know what I’m saying?
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
by vivero on Mar 5, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not racist, just speaking the truth. Look at James Toney, Rampage Jackson or Kimbo Slice. These guys can’t get two sentences out before saying, “you know what I’m saying?”
by dreamers_12345 on Mar 5, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I remembering seeing so many post just like this when Lesnar was on his way to the UFC
We know how that ended up.
I’m not saying Toney is going to be the next champ, but I give this guy a better chance then a lot of other fighters I’ve seen in the UFC.
James Toney vs. Dan Evensen
my money is on Toney.
I hope they make Kimbo-Toney. Kimbo will wrestle him to the ground and beat him into a hamburger.
I hope they make Couture-Toney. Randy will push him to the cage and dirty box him into a bloody pulp.
I hope they make Crocop-Toney. Mirko will kick his head into the third row.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Mar 5, 2010 3:14 PM EST reply actions
His argument for being able to stop a takedown
is “I’m a very strong man”. He’ll go far with that.
Renallo: Anything you'd like to add about Jake Shields, Frank?
Shamrock: He called me a dick.
by The Pope of Chilitown on Mar 6, 2010 12:01 AM EST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
