Reactions to the UFC Signing James Toney
Steve Cofield doesn't pull any punches, with this headline "The UFC gets into the freak show biz: James Toney signs" here's more from the piece:
James Toney may be a big mouth but he's one smart dude. The IBA heavyweight champ put out the bait and he just hooked a big fish in the UFC. The 41-year-old boxer, whose paydays have dried up in the ring, has signed a deal with world's biggest mixed martial arts promotion.
Toney began to lay his trap back in January after UFC 108....
...
Later Wednesday, we'll find out why exactly the UFC is rolling the dice on Toney. One reason has to be the quick payday via pay-per-view. The boxing vs. MMA matchup is likely to bring in a huge audience. Plus Toney will do his part to hype the hell out of the fight.
Mike Chiapetta speculates on possible opponents:
Chuck Liddell (3:1) - Liddell seems like the best fit for Toney's debut. Though the UFC has money invested in the last fight of Liddell's trilogy with Tito Ortiz, they may switch plans if they can make more with Liddell-Toney, which seems quite possible. Also, both Liddell and Toney have few fights left in their careers; why not pair them against each other?
Randy Couture (4:1) - Amazingly enough, this fight was talked about once, years ago. Couture only wants big fights, and a Couture-Toney fight would get massive media exposure.
Kimbo Slice (6:1) - Slice has an May date against Matt Mitrione, but after making his name as a backyard brawler, it would be interesting to see him against a star boxer, even if it is in an MMA cage rather than a boxing ring. Because Slice isn't thought of as a future champion, there would be little risk to his reputation in such a matchup as well. The fight would be a win-win proposition.
The Shane Carwin-Frank Mir UFC 111 loser (8:1) - This may seem a bit more far-fetched than most as Toney isn't really ready for a huge hitter who can take him to the ground, but he's said he'll face anyone, and this could be a way for Dana White to prove MMA's superiority over boxing as a combat sport.
Anderson Silva (12:1) - A darkhorse, but maybe more possible than we might imagine. Silva's always wanted to box Roy Jones; maybe Toney would help him quell his desire to face a boxer. He is big enough to fight Toney even at heavyweight, and he may campaign for the opportunity. The "Boxing Champ vs. MMA Champ" storyline is also an easy one to sell.
Rampage Jackson (15:1) - Jackson has said he may be done with the UFC after fighting Rashad Evans at UFC 114, but perhaps a chance at a big payday against Toney might lure him back into the fold.
I think the competition that Dana White is most concerned with is Strikeforce and he had to pre-empt a possible Herschel Walker vs James Toney fight.
It would seem that competition is pushing Dana White into a freak show direction. Kimbo Slice would never have been in the UFC if he hadn't been on CBS first and I don't think James Toney would have signed without the threat of CBS broadcasting Herschel Walker vs James Toney.
My prediction is that Kimbo Slice will be James Toney's first opponent, possibly at UFC 113. Sorry Matt Mitrione you'll have to fight someone tougher and lower profile.
More reactions in the full entry.
Zach Arnold speculates on Dana White's motivations:
For UFC President Dana White and Lorenzo Fertitta, the signing of James Toney is a luxury. If he flames out, then everyone predicted it would happen. If Toney succeeds, White and Fertitta will make a lot of money. When Toney spent months stalking Dana White at various UFC events to get a fight contract, White was nervous and respectful around Toney. After all, Toney is a legitimately crazy man who has made his bones unleashing violence on other human beings. After White and Toney sat down and talked at a January UFC PPV event in Las Vegas, both parties came away saying that they were unlikely to work with each other.
So what changed?
White was quoted by Yahoo Sports writer Kevin Iole as saying that he had been told that Strikeforce was negotiating with Toney for a fight against Herschel Walker. No matter how many times White buries Showtime and Strikeforce as minor-league MMA promoters, the natural reflexive motion for UFC is to try to stop whatever Strikeforce is attempting to do. Call it the Vince McMahon business principle of paranoia.
If Toney was indeed negotiating with Strikeforce, suddenly he found leverage to get UFC to allow him to box while booking him in MMA fights. The alleged contract between the two parties is a five-fight deal. Most people understand that if Toney does not succeed in MMA that he will get cut by Zuffa after a couple of fights. However, if Toney somehow manages to not look bad in the cage, then Zuffa will be able to book him relatively cheaply.
Dave Meltzer has more (via Fight Opinion):
"Strikeforce was negotiating or at least Dana (White) was under the impression that Strikeforce was negotiating a Herschel Walker/James Toney fight for CBS most likely, perhaps for PPV. And so he decided that I will outbid them and ruin that fight. So I think that's what that's all about because the key to me is that they're letting [Toney] box. I mean, like if [UFC] had any you know thoughts that this guy was really valuable to them, they weren't going to sign him to a non-exclusive contract. They've never signed anyone to a non-exclusive contract and they signed him to a non-exclusive contract."
Our own Luke Thomas probably had the most balanced and thoughtful take, here's an abbreviated version of his three possible reasons for the signing:
1. Boxing has had something of a resurgence or at least re-popularization of late although even without the resurgence the overall point of boxing vs. MMA (even though the odds are hardly fair) still holds sway. With the booking of the first major boxer to crossover into the MMA "big leagues", the UFC could be attempting to make an example of what is highly likely to be Toney's absymal MMA skill set.
2. The Herschel Walker effect. As White has curiously remarked (it makes perfect sense to me), ESPN and many in the traditional sports establishment still won't pay attention to MMA or the UFC, yet will when one of their favorite sons from another, more established sport gets in the mix.
3. I don't find this particularly likely, but White could actually be curious about Toney's ability. Greg Savage Tweeted that Toney has been working (albeit on fundamentals) with Juanito Ibarra in recent weeks.
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Do we really think
that Dana is worried about strikeforce?
I think Dana enjoys
destroying the competition.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Mar 4, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
cause that shit is funny to him.
If coker were to build a sand castle in Hawaii. Danna would get on a 6 HR flight, drive to said beach just to kick that mother f-er down! Cause he is sick like that. Lol
by Rayce. on Mar 4, 2010 12:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
I agree.
He doesn’t feel as though his market share is threatened, but either thinks that anybody trying to compete is a personal insult to him or he just likes to watch the world burn. I hope it’s the latter.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Hey Nate,
Its called business 101 and Dana is #1 in his class right now…
its a small investment for the UFC…Minimal!!!
Toney is the biggest name HW out there with the smallest payday demand…
Brock was a freak Show, Stefan Struve was a freak show, and Tim Sylvia was a freak show!!
Grow them slowly or feed them to the lions, based on how much you are paying them…
Also, Nate, I am curious as to what ALL of these MMA news media reporters would be doing if it werent for Dana White…
I think so
and it may be true that SF could potentially go under water, but they do have the potential to be big as well. So did EXC. If DW didn’t really think they had any chances, he wouldn’t spend so much time dissing them, it’s pretty much a defensive maneuver.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
EliteXC never had a chance because their sole marketing ploy was Kimbo.
The moment everyone knew he wasn’t this unbeatable god then they were cooked.
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
yeah, that was known before he even signed with them, but they could have gotten somewhere had their original plan to feed him easy opponents were successful. unfortunately Shamrock happened…
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
Of course he's worried...
Why would he spend time counter-programming a “small regional promotion?”
How much time does he really spend counter programming them? He throws UFC reruns on Spike. It’s not like he’s deliberately running live shows against them.
by Worldisart on Mar 4, 2010 2:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
At LHW – Toney vs. Kimbo
At HW- Toney vs. TODDUFFEE
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
you're wishing for deaths in the cage.
Toney should KILL Kimbo. and Duffee would definitely kill Toney
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
WIN-WIN in my eyes
Minus the death of course.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
i was thinking about Duffee VS Toney also...
trouble iz.. we just don’t know what Toney’z ground skillz are like… time will tell…
"If I told you I was good, you would think I am boasting. If I told you I was not good, you would know I am lying" Bruce Lee
we just don’t know what Toney’z ground skillz are like
Yes we do: godawful.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 4, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I can’t wait to see Toney pop his third positive steroid test in a five year span, this time for the UFC.
I will say this for the millionth time. JAMES TONEY WILL NOT FIGHT KIMBO SLICE that fight will not happen. He is going to get a wrestler. It will not be Kimbo.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 4, 2010 12:08 PM EST reply actions
Also...
Liddell is FAR from the “most likely” opponent
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 4, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, not with his recent bad KOs, his standing among casual fans, his exposure on TUF this season, and his money fight with Brokeskull. He’s just a terrible gamble to put in against Toney, who could conceivably smash Liddel’s face.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
You really don’t think that the UFC will do that? I mean, there is some big money there in a James Toney vs Kimbo Slice fight, and I can imagine it being a fight that fans would want to see and pay money to see it.
Here’s the thing. Toney is flakey, tends to pop positive steroid tests, and made sure that he can still box while under contract.
1) I don’t think he’ll EVER have a fight in the UFC. One will get booked, and then canceled.
2) If he does have a fight, and wins. He’s not coming back. He’s going to use the publicity to try and make another run at the heavyweight title.
I don’t think the UFC has any plans to let him get a win if he does fight.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 4, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Brent you got a great angle going here. You just may be right. This could be the reason they let him box still.
On Y2K Alex Jones was on the radio yelling that Russian was nuking the USA.
Now is this an indictment of Alex Jones, or an indictment of Jones' fans.
It seems as though people love being lied to & having their money stolen from them.
Viva L' America
brent its like you do this professionally!
I wanna see him get dumped on his ass and choked. I can only hope Dana does too!
by Rayce. on Mar 4, 2010 12:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i said ass but...
I would really like to see him get dumped on his head instead.
by Rayce. on Mar 4, 2010 12:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
greened
"For some reason Dana White doesn't like me, and I don't care enough to find out why. So he can go pound sand up his ass as far as I'm concerned."
Don Frye
by keyboardwarrior on Mar 4, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think the UFC would throw Kimbo at him either with concern for making MMA fighters look inferior to boxers. Despite all their efforts to being nuetral to every fighter you have to think that they want Toney to look somewhat competitive but not KTFO any of “their” fighters until he wins over fans. Lesnar was basically set up with one of the few HW that stylistically would exploit his lack of experience. Even though he lost he gained a lot of fans with the fact that he came so close to ending the fight viciously.
It better be Kimbo.
I need that fight in my life. It will bring joy-joy happy times.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Mar 4, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
I’d be afraid to set up Toney with another striker, because he has years of experience in boxing. If i was the ufc, and wanted to make a point about how mma > boxing, id set him up with some one like a tito ortiz who can take it down, and ground and pound it out. I love Duffee but he’s an amazing prospect and why ruin it by throwing him in with a former champion boxer. Randy is also an interesting fight with his grecco roman wrestling and dirty boxing. Just please not Liddel or Duffee or anyone like that.
I kind of hope the reasons for all this isn’t that the UFC is trying to compete with Strikeforce.
People have always said that more competition would be better for the fans and for the fighters.
Looks like more competition is leading to strange fights and more money for non-MMA guys, not to mention M-1. It doesn’t seem like the two companies are about to start competing on price any time soon.
And I guess Strikeforce has signed some guys to some good deals… but I feel everyone they have picked up trying to compete with the UFC was already eligible for a good deal from the UFC in the first place.
Chuck will be allowed NO WHERE near Toney
Chuck’s Kryptonite is great boxing…
Don’t even think that will be raised…
Kimbo could be a good lead in and money maker to build one of them up for the next level..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
god Hardonk would cripple him
and still not be a draw. They’ll book Toney against someone who will gain a huge pop from the exposure. Hardonk hasn’t earned that kind of payday.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
that would be a huge fight down the line if say toney goes 2-0 in the ufc against mid tier oppostion.
I thought that would be a good fight
Two strikers at about the same point in their careers… and we can see Toney get chopped down by the most vicious leg kicks in the game. One shot above the knee and his boxing will be gone.
This is a very bad joke Dana’s playing on Toney…
Although I look forward to the most epic shit talking ever to hit the UFC.
WAR TONEY!!!!
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Mar 4, 2010 12:43 PM EST reply actions
If Scott Coker was Dana White
My impression of what Scott Coker would be saying right now if he suddenly became Dana White-ish.
“Can you believe this sh*t? Everybody’s talking about this fat, steroid using, past his prime boxer. There’s this match coming up with Henderson and Shields – are they talking about it? No! They’re f***ing talking about this fat, old boxer! Did you know Henderson held belts in 2 weight classes at the same time? But no, the media is talking about this freak show!
Do you know what would happen if James ‘Phony’ stepped into a Strikeforce cage with Fedor? He would get killed! It would be the first death in the cage!"
by signal on Mar 4, 2010 1:01 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Rec'd, sir
For making me chuckle. I almost think Strikeforce could use a loudmouth to talk shit. As much as I love their professionalism, it would be interesting to hear Chou start mouthing off like that while Coker remains the pro.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 4, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
I forgot to put on my cynicism contacts today..
So maybe I’m being too positive. With that said, some thoughts:
Dana White, despite some blatant hyperbole on occasion, is generally straightforward and honest in his opinions, two of which: He really does love boxing as a sport, he does have tremendous respect for James Toney.
Its an assumption on my part, but I believe Dana really does want to see boxing talent, media coverage, and acceptance merge with MMA. Both from a business standpoint and from his personal passion for combat sports.
Most of the UFCs’ moves have not been solely short term goals, but long term. I think that the UFC will, at the very least, try to get two fights out of Toney. The first will be something that Toney can foreseeably win, and it’ll be on the main card. It’ll garner a decent amount of press from the larger sports networks and bring in a great deal of $$. This will also send the message out to other boxers that MMA is a viable route for their skills, though they will have to train differently. The UFC is probably hoping he wins this fight so they can then set up the huge media draw and event payday, in a fight like Toney vs Couture. That kind of fight will then have slightly more legitimacy and could possibly open the floodgates between the stagnant ocean of boxing and the rapid river of MMA.
by Cocytus on Mar 4, 2010 1:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Kimbo first
I can definitely see a Toney vs Kimbo fight as the first. Its plausible that Toney wins in the standup, it’ll be a HUGE media draw and money maker. If Toney wins that fight, there will be a great deal of momentum (media awareness and fan following) to bring into the second fight with someone like Couture. That momentum could amplify the second fight into something even bigger, and more legitimate in the eyes of the sport.
I think dana might see this as the bridge that gets MMA accepted by boxers if not boxing fans. Just like BJJ and wrestlers now see MMA as a legitimate path towards making a professional living out of MMA boxers (esp. the mid teir ones that dont have much of a future in boxing) might start to see MMA as a better carrer path?
At the start very high level wrestlers wouldn’t of given up on the olympics path for MMA now people are even given up of collage wrestling to be MMA fighters (jon jones).
Oh lord...
some stuff is happening that’s making me think I may have spoken too soon about “he’ll never fight kimbo”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 4, 2010 1:11 PM EST reply actions
Suddenly something is missing from the UFC 113 fight card…
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 4, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
UFC president Dana White confirmed that a previously reported bout between “The Ultimate Fighter 10” cast members Kevin “Kimbo Slice” Ferguson (4-1 MMA, 1-0 UFC) and Matt Mitrione (1-0 MMA, 1-0 UFC) will take place in May at UFC 113.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 4, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
so it was always planned for 113
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 4, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
I still remember a poster who really hates you and tags you as “The all-knowing Brent”. If Ferguson/Toney happened, he’ll celebrate for sure. lol.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
Yeah. I’m wrong far too often for that.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 4, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Dana white just made my “people to kick in the balls list”. toney deserves to be humiliated, not stand a chance with a sub par mma joke.
by Rayce. on Mar 4, 2010 1:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dana white just made my “people to kick in the balls list”. toney deserves to be humiliated, not stand a chance with a sub par mma newbie.
by Rayce. on Mar 4, 2010 2:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Toney vs Kimbo.
Wouldn’t it be fantastic if Kimbo did his Kimbo-slam on Toney and then pounded him out on the ground? How would that be for a headline? Former boxing champ gets beat by former backyard bully.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Hungriest dude at the BBQ vs. Toughest dude at the BBQ
Make this shit happen.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
by Damon O. on Mar 4, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
lol. I think it would be a hilarious match. Honestly, that Kimbo – Houston fight was fantastic in the second round. Even the haters have to admit, they were probably going, “Holy shit, WTF is going on?” when Kimbo took Houston down. I think this fight could be electric in terms of excitement. Mostly due to people not having any clue as to how it would turn out. I dunno. Maybe they both gas like Kimbo’s last fight, haha.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
It would seem that competition is pushing Dana White into a freak show direction.
That is a weird way of looking at it. UFC has always been competitive in trying to sign celebrity fighters. Ken Shamrock, Royce Gracie (@ UFC 60), Kimbo Slice, James Toney…. all of them were brought in because of their popularity, not their fighting ability.
I guess it depends on your definition of a “freak show fight”. I do find it amusing that only now are bloggers/MMA writers suggesting that UFC is going down the freak show route. Kimbo Slice is the definition of a freak show, but I guess everyone decided to give him a pass.
Coffield is a moron but what else is new, the idea that signing a guy with the resume of Toney to fight in the UFC is a freakshow is laughable but so are all of his articles.
So is this idea that Toney is only going to have 1 fight in the UFC he has a multiple fight deal and he will either complete it or get released. UFC may have waved the non-exclusive deal but let’s face it Toney isn’t going to have a long career I think after 2 or 3 fights he’s going to tap out and go back to boxing full time. The UFC doesn’t mess around with contracts and everyone should know that by now.
Now that Toney has decided to fight at LHW the options open up even more, personally i’d love for them to give him The Janitor or Bader guys who will take him down and punish him for 3 rounds.
Toney has already been training MMA for a long time...
I think Dana was sold on Toney’s vicious side check kick.
“You won’t see a Silva versus Jones fight while Silva is under contract with me,” White said Tuesday. “I don’t want to say anything bad about Roy Jones, I like Roy Jones and was a fan of his, but he mattered like fifteen years ago. He’s not anywhere near the best boxer in the world. He must’ve spent all his money.”
“I could do it, make it huge, make money, but I could have done a fight like this when we were bleeding money [in the early 2000s] . . . The fight would make some money, but it hurts MMA in the long term. We don’t do that because we love the sport. That’s a Pride or K-1 matchup. It’s not what we do.”
—Dana White
James Toney in UFC
No one makes a big deal when a jujitsu martial artist goes into the MMA saying he can’t strike he will be killed. Eveeyone knows what a great striker can do whether it is with their hands or feet. Tim Sylva former heavywieght ufc champ was knocked out in 10 secondes with one punch by 49 year old ray mercer and then mercer jumped on him and hit him two more times. Toney is a far better boxer than mercer ever was and mercer was a very good boxer. If toney can learn to stop take downs like lidell or even better knock someone out while they are coming in for a take down that will be great. Toney’s hands are far faster, in my opinion, than the majority of the heavyweights in the UFC. Just my opinion but many UFC fights are ended in a standup from what I see. Toney has a chin like no others and he has almost 80 pro fights and 30 or 40 amateur fights. He has the mental calmness in a fight that allows him to think and knows what a guy is going to do befor they do it. Regardless of what happens it will be very interesting. However some like couture would be a mistake becasue he is just one tough guy, after seeing the brock lesnar fight, he shows he is strong and mentally strong as well. He has the wisdom from being in the sport for so long just like toney. I really don’t know why boxing is always put down by MMA fans. No true great or even good boxer has ever gone into MMA. Marcus Davis was not that good, most of the guys he fought had over 100 loses and noly 10 or 20 wins. WHat does that tell you about his ability in boxing.
Boxing in the UFC
Kermit Cintron a world class boxer and former state champ in college wrestling told dana white he would fight anyone in the UFC and he was told no. Why becasue his striking is too good for the UFC. He also is a world class wrestler. So he has the ability to fight on the gorund why not, because he is not a big name. He is said to be one of the hardest hitting middleweight boxers and he is world ranked. I say let him in the UFC to show how well he could do. Dana WHite is scared by him showing up the UFC, that’s all!

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