Can Kenny Florian Overcome the "Number Two" Curse?
Over the past few years, we've seen a number of situations in which a fighter works his way up to the number one contender spot, loses the title fight, and then spends the next few years proving that he can beat anyone in the division except the champion. Jon Fitch and Rich Franklin come immediately to mind, and now Kenny Florian finds himself in a similar position.
Florian has to be considered the favorite against anybody in the UFC lightweight division besides BJ Penn. The next logical fight for Florian is Gray Maynard, and while it's a tough fight, I would pick Florian to win it. If he does, he'd effectively knock off the UFC's only legitimate remaining contender for BJ Penn after Frankie Edgar.
The best fight at this point for both Florian and the UFC is a Kenny Florian vs. Diego Sanchez rematch. They are big enough names to co-headline a PPV event, and there is a good story behind the fight. The f act that i t wouldn't eliminate immediate contenders for Penn's title is an additional benefit.
Can Kenny Florian beat BJ Penn? Nothing is impossible in MMA, but it would be an uphill battle. It's hard to imagine him putting Penn on his back and dominating from top position, and the striking gap between Penn and Florian was huge at UFC 101. It's possible Florian can close that gap over time, but it's not as if Penn is over the hill or declining.
Unfortunately for Kenny, dropping down a division is not really an option. He'd find himself out of the UFC and on Versus in a sinking promotion, out of sight and out of mind. Perhaps the best idea for Florian is to keep finishing fights and to bide his time until BJ Penn abdicates his title and leaves the Lightweight division altogether.
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He's not just the clear #2 in the UFC
I think at this point, you could say he’s the #2 LW in the world.
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by Matthew Roth on Mar 31, 2010 10:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
He’d be a favorite against any Lightweight in the world right now.
I say BJ finises Edgar, moves up to ww and kenflo and Maynard fight for the vacant title.
by MikeD32 on Mar 31, 2010 10:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
him at featherwight would be real interesting
lets forget the whole WEC is a much lesser promotion fact and think about matchups, kenny vs aldo, kenny vs faber, kenny vs mike brown
three awesome fights right there even though kenny might be a tad too big to make that cut at full strength
by milk72 on Mar 31, 2010 10:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Kenny has improves greatly but I would still like to see him fight some of the good wrestlers in the UFC. Id like to see him fight Gray Maynard or Tyson Griffin.
by xbuckeyex05 on Mar 31, 2010 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Kenny just destroyed Clay at 107...like it wasn't even a fight
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by Matthew Roth on Apr 1, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Boston event in august...
Could you justify a Penn/Florian rematch as the next fight for both guys, assuming Penn beats Edgar? I dunno… but maybe they could market it right and get a good buy rate.
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I don't think he would ever move down...
And it would be hard for him to move up so this is a tough one. I think he had the wrong game plan in his title fight with Penn but I think Penn would beat him anyways…
I would like to see Kenflo vs Gray Maynard anyways as Im not sure that Diego would move back down but that would be a good fight also.
It would be great to see Kenny rematch Sherk but at this point Sherk would have to win one or 2 fights before he would face Florian.
Should be interesting to see what the UFC will do!
It doesn't eliminate contenders for Penns title?
That’s only true if Florian wins.
I’d actually rather see Kenny fight Tyson Griffin than Maynard.
There’s no way Kenny beats BJ so long as Penn’s head is screwed-on straight. BJ is just flat-out a superior striker and grappler and has proven to be the most dominant lightweight in the history of the sport.
Kenny’s come a long, long way in his career since TUF but he’s actually older than BJ.
Is there really a lot of room for improvement for Kenny?
^this
T. Griffin always seems to get left out of the contender arguments. His fights are never boring. This would make a great matchup.
Diego will do whatever the UFC brass tell him.
And Diego has no reason to fear Kenflo, at least not in his own mind.
Love the profile pic
They all float down here
"To me, MMA is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography and the dancers hit each other."
by Buster Bluth on Apr 1, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Aldo
Ok, here’s the plan… After Jose destroys Faber in a few weeks, let him fight Florian for his next fight at LW. Winner fights BJ.
Florian/Maynard
I don’t think the UFC is high on Gray as a contender anyway, and as I think Ken-Flo would beat him, it takes Gray out of the title equation.
Screw it, let the man get his rematch. He had a dumb strategy the first time, but he might do better a second. At least we see a concentrated effort on Kenny’s part to finish fights.
I know everyone hates rematches, but I’d love Kenny to get another shot before BJ goes up. He might get finished evdn faster, but he can make a better fight of it against BJ than the first one. He still has the best chance of any LW in my opinion, slim though it is.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Apr 1, 2010 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Totally agree
Sure Kenny’s chance are minimal, but they are better than anyone elses. Kenny won’t clinch this time so we’ll at least see a different fight.
Granted from Kenny’s perspective he needs as much time as possible to get his skills up before facing Penn again.
Agreed. He didn't seem to be fighting his fight the first time. Kenny was way to tentative.
If they fight again, I think it would be a very different and more competetive fight. I am not saying Kenny wins, but it would be a better fight.
Yeah, Florian looked good, but let's be real...
Gomi, like every other PRIDE fighter that has come to the UFC is past his prime. They made a big deal out of him asking for the fight, but the truth is I think he knew Gomi wasn’t really going to be a problem which means he could build his name off Gomi’s while knowing Gomi was never really a threat anyway. No matter how this effects his rank or where it puts him in the title picture I still don’t think he can take BJ.
Hang Tight, Kenny..
..maybe BJ will get tired of holding the LW belt, drop it for a move up to WW (a real permanent move), then you and Gray & Tyson can have a triple-threat match for the belt. A ladder match, maybe.
The only thing that ruined Kenny was the idiotic gameplan in the BJ fight, clearly he has gotten his shit together he looked the best he’s ever looked in his past 2 fights. Beating Guida and Gomi back to back and by submission shows that he has continued to improve since his loss and is 1 or 2 more quality wins away from earing another shot at BJ.
It wasn’t an idiotic gameplan, he tasted Penn’s power early on and knew right away he couldn’t stand with him. The choice was basically to either get torn apart standing or try everything to take him down.
His best chance in a rematch is to spend the year training his wrestling and looking for a way to get BJ to the ground.
by Michael Rome on Apr 1, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
That and start doing what he did today and use the jab effectively. He’s got a 4" reach advantage over BJ if he can work on being a good outside fighter and stick and move that’ll be a start. Keep BJ at bay and backpedal, backpedal, backpedal.
Is he going to develop explosive takedowns though?
Every plan to beat BJ usually leads to defeat. Granted the way we’ve seen BJ beat recently is with explosive takedowns. I just don’t see Kenny developing that sort of shot. Clearly working slowly for a takedown doesn’t work against BJ (see Kenflo and Sanchez)
That’s why I think his best shot is to have everything come from the standup. Can Kenny get better than BJ? Probably not, but he might be able to create openings, work some kicks, do damage and achieve a takedown.
One again its not likely, but I think its the best plan for Ken Flo given his natural abilities.
Who said anything about outboxing
But he can use his reach advantage as a great defense tool to keep BJ from lighting him up. Jab, retreat. Jab, retreat. And then either look for an opening to shoot for the takedown or hope to pull out the worst decision victory in history.
If he does that he’ll fail even worse, he can’t outwrestle BJ if he doesn’t pick him part and wear him down first like he did Gomi. Trying to bully BJ up against the fence and not letting his hands, elbows, knees and kicks go was the biggest WTF? i’ve seen in a fight since Sherk decided to box BJ in their title fight.
I think that if BJ goes up to WW every LW title holder for the next 5 years should be referred to like this:
UFC Lightweight Champion*
or
UFC Lightweight “Champion”
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by Earl Montclair on Apr 1, 2010 3:31 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
AVENGE YOUR LOSSES!
I like to see a fighter on the path to greatness work to avenge his losses. For Florian, who is 13-4, that means Drew Fickett, Diego Sanchez, Sean Sherk and BJ Penn.
Fickett is no longer in the picture so we can forget about him. And the Penn loss is still fresh and we have no reason to believe Florian is ready to reverse its outcome. That leaves Sanchez and Sherk, both of whom are still top lightweights, despite recent setbacks.
Florian rematches against Sanchez and Sherk would be exciting and meaningful fights. In the meantime, this would allow other contenders, like Frankie Edgar, Gray Maynard, and perhaps another emerging lightweight a chance to contend for the title.
Perhaps by the time Florian has cleaned up his record by avenging these two key losses, Penn would have vacated the LW title to compete at WW. If not, Florian would be ready for a second shot at Penn, armed with more confidence, more experience, and a better gameplan than last time!
Sanchez is going back to WW where he belong and Sherk has looked shot neither fight right now makes sense for Kenny. There are plenty of other guys he can face like Maynard or Griffin to show once and for all that he should get another shot.
Sherk’s losses at lightweight are to the champion BJ Penn and the #1 contender Frankie Edgar. Sanchez’s only LW loss is also against the champion. (As for “WW where he belongs”, Sanchez has been soundly beaten there by Jon Fitch and Josh Koscheck.)
At LW, Sherk and Sanchez are on the same level as Florian in terms of their wins and losses.
Florian looked great despite what anyone wants to say about Gomi to downplay the victory.
However, I would like to see Florian go another year before a title fight with Penn so that he can continue to improve. At the rate he is improving now, I think 1 or 2 more dominant victories would leave him with both the real skills to challenge Penn and the argument to get the fight.
Kenny I do believe is the 2nd best lightweight in the world
I thought his game plan was pretty smart against Penn the first time. Hold him, work short shots from the clinch take minimal damage, and hopefully drain his will. Obviously it didn’t work but I don’t think it was a bad game plan. I say let Florian fight Jim Miller next, it gives Miller a chance to jump up in competition and Kenny doesn’t pick off all your legitimate contenders. Then have Griffin and Maynard fight each other for the #1 contender spot winner gets next shot at champ and then Kenny gets the shot after that.
Kenny should get the next shot at BJ
I understand this is going to end up the same way rich and spider did. But, K Flo has been the best LW not named BJ Penn, so, I really think it’s his turn to get beat up by BJ again. This could be a good thing too, the MW division appeared to be mopped up, then over the last year, we have had Sonnen, Maia, Marquart and others put themselves in contention. The promising thing about UFC LW is it’s still young. So, these guys are gonna keep getting better and keep pushing Penn to get better.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
Kenny should leave the UFC for 12 months,
go beat Melendez and Aoki. Then he can return from the “West” as the returning hero who conquered all just in time to have BJ RNC him then promptly leave for 170.
Can Kenny Florian Overcome the "Number Two" Curse?
Simply put.. . probably not.
Every aspect of BJ’s game are notches above Kenny Florians’

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