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The UFC 116 Hype Begins: Building Brock Lesnar vs Shane Carwin, Plus Cain Velasquez and Junior Dos Santos

Watch Kalib Run calls them "The Four Horsemen of the UFC"

Everyone's taking the obvious size angle on building buzz for the headliner of UFC 116: Brock Lesnar vs Shane Carwin. The UFC expects 116 to be its biggest event of the year, but has to be looking in the rear-view mirror at last July's epic UFC 100 card. Lesnar vs Mir 2 headlined that card and you know a big part of Dana White and the Fertittas was hopefully pencilling Lesnar vs Mir 3 for 116. 

But, alas, instead of reaping a windfall from the time and money they've invested in promoting Frank Mir over the years, they have to do the hard work of building a fairly unknown Shane Carwin. But our boy Dana is nothing if not plucky and Mir is in the rear view mirror as they get the spin out to the press.

Steve Cofield documents the atrocities:

Sure the prefight talk for a Brock Lesnar-Frank Mir fight would've been off the charts but with Shane Carwin's victory at UFC 111 we're looking at a megafight during the summer with two of the biggest MMA heavyweights in the world. Lesnar is massive at 6-feet-4, 290 pounds and Carwin is right there with him at 6-2, 300. They'll both cut to 265 but on fight night in early July it'll be like two rhinos banging heads.

Once Mir was finished, Lesnar entered the cage early Sunday morning to lay down some smack on the fans and Carwin.

"I was debating whether I was going to bring him in there tonight," said Dana White, who wanted to make sure Carwin was cool with it. "Those two start going at it, there wasn't enough people in there to break that thing up."

White then posed the question about who the heck is going to be in there with upward of 580 pounds of beef.

"They're going to have to have like the [expletive] Hulk referee that fight. We might need two refs," joked White.

White is hoping the card can eclipse the one million mark for pay-per-view buys. Lesnar is the key.

Mike Chiappetta spreads the virus:

When (Carwin) and Lesnar meet this summer, likely on July 3 in Las Vegas, it will be -- quite literally -- huge. In fact, the biggest title matchup ever, at least in terms of bulk. And the interest level for the fight might just match the oversized participants.

Shockingly, Carwin-Mir marked the first time in major MMA history that a heavyweight championship match included two men who weighed in at the 265-pound limit. It had never happened in PRIDE; it had never happened in the UFC. The second time is on the way. But Lesnar is naturally much larger than Mir, who has weighed in the 245-255 neighborhood for most of his career and had bulked up in hopes of a rubber match with Lesnar.

Instead he was beaten by the monstrous Carwin, and now, he and Lesnar will usher in the new age of superheavyweights.

"The new age of superheavyweights" -- I like that, has a nice ring to it, well done Mr. Chiapetta.

Kevin Iole on the other hand is working more of the "Shane Carwin, part-time fighter, full-time engineer" angle:

Carwin still holds down a full-time job as an engineer and is a married father of a newborn daughter. That's plenty to make the average man weary at the end of a lengthy day. When other men are calling it a day, however, is when Carwin is just beginning.

On Saturday in the co-main event of UFC 111 at the Prudential Center, he showed he's pretty good at his side job, too.

He also got this quote from Lesnar:

"I kind of figured Shane was going to win, though I know anything can happen in this sport," Lesnar said. "I was kind of laying back and I didn't want to count any chickens before they hatched. Shane's a tough guy and I just know that Frank's time is done. This is the new evolution of the heavyweight division. Brock Lesnar, Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, Junior dos Santos, we're the guys in this division."

This is very shrewd heat building on the part of Lesnar. By spending words on Cain and Junior as he builds his fight with Shane, he's effectively investing in future fights while hyping his upcoming bout. It will be very interesting if he continues to hype up Velasquez and Dos Santos during the Carwin build. It's a reinforcement of Dana's stated intention to give both fighters separate title shots, although Dos Santos will have to win an extra fight while he waits. 

Does it also indicate that Lesnar is looking past Carwin just a little bit?

Zak Woods comments on the emergence of a new top tier in the UFC's biggest class:

The UFC heavyweight division while never deeper is slowly contracting to smaller nucleus. Randy Couture yielded late last year and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira bowed out in Australia at UFC 110. At UFC 111 Frank Mir was the latest heavyweight to exit stage "punched in the face" from title contention. 

If there was any doubt before it is now completely gone: Shane Carwin, Brock Lesnar, Cain Velasquez and Junior dos Santos are the four best heavyweights in the UFC. 

...

For fans clamoring for a Velasquez-dos Santos fight that match-up was never a realistic possibility as the fine folks at Zuffa know that their heavyweight division is now all about the big four (WKR really wants to call them the Four Horsemen--WOOOO!!!!). In that vein, Dana White confirmed that Cain Velasquez will get the winner of Lesnar-Carwin and if Roy Nelson is triumphant at Fight Night 21 then Junior dos Santos will fight "Big Country" (WKR believes that Cheick Kongo may be an alternative if Nelson loses to Stefan Struve).

Will UFC 111 go down as the page turn for the UFC's heavyweight division? Perhaps, but WKR believes that process began over a year ago. Instead, UFC 111 may be seen as the realization that the top tier of the heavyweight division is the "Four Horsemen".

Personally I'm thrilled and I really hope that regardless of the outcomes of the various fights that we will get to see a round-robin between the four of them before it's all said and done with. Some of my favorite UFC memories in recent years involved the Chuck Liddell vs Randy Couture vs Tito Ortiz vs Vitor Belfort battles in which we pretty much established a clear pecking order amongst the UFC's top 205lber's of the time. I'd love to see every possible permutation of Brock Lesnar vs Shane Carwin vs Cain Velasquez vs Junior Dos Santos.

And that's why, although I understand the inexorable money hungry carney logic of holding Velasquez back and feeding Nelson or Struve to Dos Santos, I disagree with that decision. There are too many variables in the fight game to plan that far ahead. When it comes to top contenders at the top of their games, this should be the promoter's guiding axiom: "Book the best fight you can every time."

For one thing, it's not good for a racehorse like Cain Velasquez to be stabled for the rest of the year waiting for Lesnar. This is a young athlete at the peak of his abilities, it's near criminal to waste most of a year. He'll turn from 27 to 28 while he waits and that's a big deal considering his peak could end in as little as four years, pending injuries and happenstance.

Meanwhile, Dos Santos could lose in a lame fight with Roy Nelson, and while it would be enormous fun to see Nelson grapple his way into an opportunity to be brutally beaten by the winner of Lesnar/Carwin vs Velasquez, I'd rather not. There are innumerable ways that Dos Santos could be rendered unavailable when the call up comes.

When it comes to fights as epic as a Cain Velasquez vs Junior Dos Santos 2010, a promoter has karma to pay to the fight gods when he chooses NOT to make it happen.

More UFC 116 Coverage

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At some point I want that to happen, but right now there are really very few "Super" heavyweights.

As the huge athlete continue to enter the sport, I think a cruiserweight class will become a need. Eitherwise there will be a lot of great fighters being marginalized.

by truck on Mar 30, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

There aren't enough yet to warrant it IMO...

…but when some more more guys come in that have to cut to 265, then yeah, a cruiserweight class between HW and LHW would become necessary. Would be interesting to see if, after the implementation of a CW class, some of the bigger LHWs might decide to stop cutting weight.

by Hardcase on Mar 30, 2010 7:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I always figured they would call 206-235 heavyweight and 236+ super heavyweight. I guess borrowing cruiserweight from boxing makes sense, but I think it would be a chance to distinguish MMA from boxing

"For some reason Dana White doesn't like me, and I don't care enough to find out why. So he can go pound sand up his ass as far as I'm concerned."

Don Frye

by keyboardwarrior on Mar 30, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

This same concept is the same reason I’ve been wondering something…get ready to attack me…I think Mir would have had a much better chance of staying competitive with Cain Valasquez than Shane Carwin…especially without the unnecessary bulk…and although I think JDS would have his way with him I don’t think it’s fair to say that he shouldn’t be able to fight them because of the difference in skill/performance between them…it’s just that they have their recent future practically set in stone, while his is up in arms at the moment…

"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke

"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth

One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.

by zakkree on Mar 30, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

A Cruiserweight division should be 225, max. Or maybe drop LHW down to 200 and make CW 220. And kick up the HW limit to 275 when this happens, either way. The HW division only just now has any sort of real depth, and only just now do you have a decent amount of guys at 260+ who are great athletes and not just big lummoxes like Tim Sylvia. If you were to split the HW division in half anytime soon, both halves, or at least the top half would be really, really shallow. Meanwhile Fedor is still arguably the best fighter on the planet, and he fights at around 230-235, and should easily be able to cut to 220. It would be silly to cut the division in half when you still have a guy that can beat anyone in both divisions in the lighter one.

by Chromium on Mar 30, 2010 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Slow down with the Super fapping...

Just because Frank Mir can’t handle bigger guys doesn’t mean other guys who are 245 can’t.

The whole point of most martial arts are for smaller guys to handle bigger guys and you really don’t need to be that big to knock somebody out. A heavy weight is a heavy weight.

"One should always be cold minded and remember that a ridiculous incident may occur any time."

by At Least On Paper on Mar 30, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I’ve been clamoring for a CW class for awhile now, and JDS is my exhibit A of why its a good idea. I love the way he fights, but I think Carwin/Brock will smother him. Still, as much as I like the idea of JDS emerging as a dominant CW champ, I think people are right when they say it would thin the heavyweight ranks too much. For a division that is only just now getting some real depth, it’d be serious blow.

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

by Dave Strummer on Mar 30, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

the right time will be when the UFC has enough fighters to fill both divisions.

by Phildo on Mar 30, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those are exaggerated weights noted by cofield..

Brock says he’s at 280 now, and carwin says he was at 290 when he began training, but when he’s in shape, he’s a lot lighter that that.

by Anton Tabuena on Mar 30, 2010 12:30 AM EDT reply actions  

UFC 100 was July, not August.

by ufc4 on Mar 30, 2010 12:41 AM EDT reply actions  

thanks

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Mar 30, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

UFC will have no problem at all selling Carwin/Lesnar

All of the rabid Mir fans (including myself) saw Carwin violently destroy Frank. If it was a lay and prey decision it might change things but it wasnt, it was an out of control semi truck hitting a large KIA Sophia.

Franks fans will folow 116 hoping to see Lesnar lose and vice versa for the lesnar fanatics.

by Jonnycaz2.0 on Mar 30, 2010 12:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Mirgliotta is a big dude.

"For your information, I would like to ask a question."
-Samuel Goldwyn

by fedorade on Mar 30, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Touche.

"For your information, I would like to ask a question."
-Samuel Goldwyn

by fedorade on Mar 30, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

At my UFC party

Mirgliotta summoned the most unified anger I’ve seen from a group of people outside of a political protest. We were literally shocked at this man’s ignorant comprehension of refereeing and dangerous neglect of a vulnerable human being

by Jonnycaz2.0 on Mar 30, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

ignorant incomprehension

ignorant comphrension is an oxymoron.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Mar 30, 2010 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

He probably shoulda just went with ignorance but what the hell...

"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke

"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth

One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.

by zakkree on Mar 30, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ouch....

The tacking on of the letter “i” and “n” would have allowed you to comment on the opinion and not the grammar.

My apologies, blogging on MMAjunkie too much tends to cloud the mind.

by Jonnycaz2.0 on Mar 30, 2010 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

If it makes you feel any better I’m the one who rec’d the comment up above about him being a waste of space. That was the same general point I think.

"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke

"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth

One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.

by zakkree on Mar 30, 2010 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, I don't see any reason why he won't do just fine. Herb's the man.

"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke

"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth

One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.

by zakkree on Mar 30, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I haven’t seen much comments on this. But consider Herb’s reffing job in the Versus card compared to Miragliotta’s at 111. I think the difference was enormous. It wasn’t only the Mir-stoppage, in every fight there were questionable decisions.

My enjoyment of the fights was notably increased when Herb was reffing. I don’t need to worry about fighter safety and I know I won’t see crazy standup from half guard (what’s up with that?).

If it’s really the case that Miragliotta is among the best refs outside of Herb, then we have a huge problem.

by Sventsh on Mar 30, 2010 5:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. Make the best fight happen when you have the chance. The hell with saving fighters to not mess up the rankings. Muthaf*ck the rankings. Pardon my French but it really hinders good fights from happening when they should. IDK, maybe that’s just me and I’m over-reacting.

"For your information, I would like to ask a question."
-Samuel Goldwyn

by fedorade on Mar 30, 2010 1:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Junior Dos Santos versus Todd Duffee.

There’s no point keeping Dos Santos from fighting for so long and there’s no point having him fight Kongo either. Nelson wouldn’t be a bad match-up, but in the meantime, why not have JDS fight Todd Duffee? Duffee is a big guy with lots of power who perhaps isn’t as tested, but so what? If a guy shows the potential to be dangerous, jump him up a peg. The rankings are a guideline anyway, nothing is official. One minute a guy thinks his opponent isn’t in the same league, the next minute that same guy can knock him out, just ask Jardine (apropos Houston Alexander).

by Jackanapes on Mar 30, 2010 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

duffee has fought for 7 seconds in the octagon

kids a raw and very very green prospect, let him grow a little

by milk72 on Mar 30, 2010 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

A worthy point (and most likely a majority thought), definitely a good point which I considered; but okay, if not JDS, someone like Nelson would be good, but then I guess he’s in line for a shot at JDS instead. I dunno. I just want to see Duffee get tested or at least have a good match-up. He’s got potential.

by Jackanapes on Mar 30, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think Mir is done and in the past. He gets another impressive win and Dana flings him right back in the mix with whoever loses in the current big 4 as he floats, once again, the “I’ve re-invented my game” banner.

It surprises me that people are buying Lesnar’s “Mir’s time is over” speal, being that you/we’ve been following MMA for some time now. If Carwin beats Brock then Mir only lost to the future champ, and that sets up a Lesnar Mir III fight. Why was Nog not written off when he was destroyed by Mir? He suddenly was back in the mix after beating Couture. And Kongo after getting annihilated by Mir? Suddenly there’s talk of him being back in there. Mir needs to lose at least two more times in a row to be out of the picture.

by Dooda on Mar 30, 2010 1:08 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Not just that, but Mir is still in the start of his 30’s. He is old in fighting years though. He lost to two of the biggest wrestlers in the UFC and MMA, and I feel that most Heavyweights would lose to those two.
The other thing that is interesting is that besides these big 4 Heavyweights, there are up-and-comers in Brendan Schaub and Todd Duffee who could be in the mix in just a couple years. Brett Rogers is out there as well who is still in his late 20’s, and he seems to be gradually improving.

by chrisbboy82 on Mar 30, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I certainly agree with this.

It is a bit hard to see Mir winning over Lesnar or Carwin again. But I would be happy to see him try. I certainly think he might beat anyone else. Well, he might get problems against Cain. But I would have him as a favourite against Dos Santos.

It really seems like HW is getting welterized – that is the age of dominant wrestlers is upon us.

by Sventsh on Mar 30, 2010 5:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m most curious to see how Cain handles the larger Carwin and Lesnar. You know he will encounter both at some point. I think in this potential new era of super heavyweights I want to how a slightly above average sized HW like Cain competes. Can his skillset and athleticism keep up these larger athletes? Or will the SHWs eventually push guys in the 220 to 240 range out of the picture?

The more you drive, the less intelligent you are.

by Koob on Mar 30, 2010 1:13 AM EDT reply actions  

See the Werdum vs Bigfoot fight to see how he’d plan on taking Carwin, and probably how he’d deal with Brock too, except Brock is a more problematic match for Cain then Carwin, who might just be a little bit slower.

by Dooda on Mar 30, 2010 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Carwin doesn't duck after throwing wild right hands

Dos Santos planned that uppercut especially for Werdum because of Fabricio’s bad habits.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Mar 30, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ha.

Do people really think that Lesnar is going to stay at the top with these three guys gunning for him? A guy with only 3 real bouts and one against a geriatric? It’s going to be a long cold night for Lesnar fans when he has to go up against somebody besides Frank Mir.

I think people are also getting a little hasty with the “super” HW tag. Just because Mir doesn’t know how to handle bigger guys doesn’t mean other smaller fighters like Cain and Fedor are out of the picture. Randy Couture is just too old to be playing with serious fighters.

"One should always be cold minded and remember that a ridiculous incident may occur any time."

by At Least On Paper on Mar 30, 2010 1:38 AM EDT reply actions  

I reckon Brock would win 1 from 3 with the W being against JDS.

by MMAussie on Mar 30, 2010 3:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can easily see him beating Dos Santos. I doubt Junior could knock out Brock before he gets taken down and pounded on. I can see him taking care of Cain too, as he is way bigger, and yet speed and technique is negligible. Carwin seems 50/50 to me.

by Dooda on Mar 30, 2010 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

The more I think about it the more I think we will see this(Cain/JDS) fight. What is Dana interested in? Fights that make money. That fight makes money. I haven’t checked the schedule thuroughly but it seems to me ufc115 could use some more juice. Is chuck still a big draw? Whatever the case , 115 would quadrouple in magnitude if they added the fight to this washed up card.
As has been noted before, there is plenty of time for the loser to get a couple W’s before a title shot would be even available.
Vanilla Guerilla has got to be the best underground nickname for Brock. Doesn’t work as well with Shane. Can we all agree that it’s not racist? Just like chocolate rocket for a fast black dude. making note of a skin color isn’t racist.

by naturalist on Mar 30, 2010 1:40 AM EDT reply actions  

it doesn’t make as much money as cain v brock AND jds vs brock.

by Phildo on Mar 30, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

(Cain vs. JDS) + (Winner vs. Brock) + (Winner vs. someone else) does make more and you can get all three fights done in the same amount of time.

by Niles on Mar 30, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s worth noting that BROCKLESNAR is significantly bigger than Carwin. The difference was really noticeable when they were in the ring together on Saturday.

Come fight time, I’d wager BROCKLESNARS size—as well as his superior wrestling pedigree and athleticism—will be the biggest difference between him and Shane.

by BrandonC on Mar 30, 2010 1:42 AM EDT reply actions  

uh...

Brock was in dress shows and shane was barefoot.

Brock will be out before the end of the first round.

"One should always be cold minded and remember that a ridiculous incident may occur any time."

by At Least On Paper on Mar 30, 2010 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

i’m gonna buy that as well. This fight is gonna go to the clinch fast. Brock will be at an inheirent disadvantage with his bulk being predominantly in his upper body while shane drives his top heavey ass agianst the cage and unloads on him.
Formula Jackson will strike again.

by naturalist on Mar 30, 2010 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here’s the thing, while Brock seems to be a bit bigger, it looks like Shane is quite possibly stronger and better stand-up. And Shane’s no slouch in the wrestling department too, so I think it can go both ways, but Brock wins by decision and Shane stops it. However if Shane starts getting pounded on the way Frank did, there could be a stoppage there too.

by Dooda on Mar 30, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you’ll be surprised how handily Brock outmuscles and outwrestles Carwin. Brock is simply the larger, naturally stronger man, and is a better wrestler. He’s also extraordinarily fast for a HW, and can evade Carwin as much as he wants, or close the distance when he wants.

by Hardcharger on Mar 30, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

He didn’t handily out muscle Randy, who was 50 lbs lighter, so I have doubts that he easily out muscles 275 Carwin. Lesnar is probably stronger but I don’t think that the gap between them is that big. However speed difference between them is pretty big.

by dancingChicken on Mar 30, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

He threw Randy around on several occasions, getting TDs, and not getting taken down, before finishing early in Rd 2. Randy isn’t Carwin in strength, but he is better in pure wrestling technique.

I don’t think the gap is huge, and Carwin could do well in the wrestling aspect if he can get to positions he’s comfortable in, but I think that’s where Lesnar’s speed becomes a factor – applying his considerable strength before Carwin realized what’s happennind and can counter with his own considerable strength.

by Hardcharger on Mar 30, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Randy did take Lesnar down and the few times Lesnar took Randy down he was unable to hold him down for more than a few seconds.

by Niles on Mar 30, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was never a completed TD. And the one time Randy tried to spin to Lesnar’s back, he almost got his hip dislocated.

by Hardcharger on Mar 30, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s a lot that will surprise me because we haven’t really seen a fight like this before. We’ve never seen Shane defend the takedown, and we saw him escape from the bottom only once, and though Gabe is big, he’s no Brock.

The fact that they’re both wrestlers and both the strongest guys in the division is something though. I’m surprised you think he’s going to ‘handily’ do it. I can see Brock outmuscling him, but ‘handily’ stretches my imagination a little bit.

by Dooda on Mar 30, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup.

Powerful striking comes from the core and legs, and shane has one hell of a badonkadonk.

Lesnar just doesn’t have a striking game to match any of these guys and it will be his downfall.

"One should always be cold minded and remember that a ridiculous incident may occur any time."

by At Least On Paper on Mar 30, 2010 1:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Lesnar has a very rudimentary striking game. I still remember his “I’m just throwing the leg out there for the hell of it” kick in the Mir fight. He doesn’t look comfortable in the stand-up. At all. Coincidentally, that’s where Carwin feels comfortable. It’ll be an interesting fight. I think Carwin can actually take Brock down because of the fact that Brock has to actually worry about Shane’s stand-up game. Carwin has to worry about Brock’s striking just because of his sheer size and raw power but he’s not an explosive striker and doesn’t possess proper technical ability (then again it’s tough for a man his size). Shane really only has to worry about Lesnar’s takedowns. Outside of that, Carwin doesn’t have much to worry about. It’s a pretty even fight.

Twitter: @FlyByKnite

by FlyByKnight on Mar 30, 2010 2:45 AM EDT reply actions  

Doesn’t Lesnar have a reach advantage? I don’t know what Shanes reach is but Lesnars is like 81 inches and Shanes arms look a lot shorter than Lesnars. That could be a problem in the stand up. Shane has been put on his back and gotten up, can Lesnar stand it up should he be put on his back?

by RyanHobbs on Mar 30, 2010 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he has a reach advantage but he’s not the better striker. I don’t think it would be too much of a problem for Carwin.

by Jackanapes on Mar 30, 2010 4:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Brock’s reach is 81, Carwin’s 80. I doubt that 1 inch will make a difference in that fight.

by dancingChicken on Mar 30, 2010 6:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Could be right, but Carwin ain’t 6’5 either and Brock looks like he has a gorilla gene in him somewhere down the line with those big long arms. My point is, if they’ve added inches to Carwin’s height, they’ve most likely added inches to his reach.

by Jackanapes on Mar 30, 2010 7:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Carwin said on his twitter that he has 83 inch reach.

by dancingChicken on Mar 30, 2010 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

So first it’s 80, now it’s 83? Make up your mind, dog. :)

by Jackanapes on Mar 30, 2010 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

UFC has 80’, I looked up his twitter and he wrote 83’. In my mind it doesn’t matter much, because they’re not good enough strikers to benefit from 1 or 2 inch reach advantage. Speed might be a factor, though.

by dancingChicken on Mar 30, 2010 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well we’re both essentially agreeing on the same thing — that the reach won’t really be a factor. Reach is also deceptive in appearance anyway, being that if Carwin does have a longer reach than Brock it would be surprising given that Brock is taller and appears to have longer arms. But as I said, it’s deceptive, who knows at this point. I’m at the stage where none of the UFC’s measurements can be considered reliable and taken as a credible source.

by Jackanapes on Mar 30, 2010 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also disagree w/ the 'ban' on Cain/JDS...

…though I do understand it. For the first time in a while, the HW division looks to have some depth besides the champ, and I can see why White would be hesitant against having fresh contenders eliminating each other.

Still, it’s just as much of a risk to have Cain out of the public eye while he sits out a title shot, and risking JDS’ heat while he bides his time for a shot, IMO. It’s MMA, anything can happen, and even the better guy can have an off night. If one of them has to eventually lose, let it be against another top guy. I think Cain and JDS are young and good enough to rebound after a loss(hell, Lesnar lost his debut fight in the UFC).

by Hardcase on Mar 30, 2010 7:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Cain vs. JDS makes the most sense…

1. It’s a great fight that could headline or co-headline a card.
2. A loss by either JDS or Cain (against each other) would only be a speedbump since they are both young and fighting another top contender. They could be quickly built back up to contender status (see Lesnar vs. Mir I)
3. A loss by JDS to Nelson or another mid-level fighter would be devastating and it would take a while to build him back up.
4. As already pointed out keeping Cain on the bench for almost a year would be a huge waste of his talent.
5. As previously stated trying to plan not just the next 2 but next 3 title challengers is just foolhardy, MMA is far too unpredictable.

by Niles on Mar 30, 2010 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good points.

2. A loss by either JDS or Cain (against each other) would only be a speedbump since they are both young and fighting another top contender. They could be quickly built back up to contender status

Indeed.

3. A loss by JDS to Nelson or another mid-level fighter would be devastating and it would take a while to build him back up.

But at least where one would fall another would rise, possibly keeping two in the mix, to some degree.

by Jackanapes on Mar 30, 2010 7:56 AM EDT reply actions  

The Problem with JDS vs Cain

Is what if Cain or the winner of Lesnar/Carwin get injured while training for their fight? The UFC doesn’t want anymore lame Rashad/Thiago main events. If Cain gets injured, you stick JDS in the title fight and the fight loses no hype or excitement. If the Lesnar/Carwin winner gets injured, you put in JDS vs Cain in a title eliminator main event that will also have excellent hype and excitement. If JDS or Cain had already lost to the other, all that hype and excitement would be gone, and we’d be stuck with another lame main event. UFC is doing the smart thing by keeping an extra main event contender ready to go, as injuries are way too prevalent these days.
Also, if JDS can’t beat Roy Nelson, then he doesn’t deserve a title shot, plain and simple.

by IWillPartyHard on Mar 30, 2010 9:49 AM EDT reply actions  

Cain could be kept on the shelf for 9 months and then get injured in camp prepping for his title shot. The point is that injuries can happen at any time and you can’t predict when or to whom, you have to just book the best fights you can.

by Niles on Mar 30, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think comments about the rounded cast of big hw’s with dynamic wrestling striking etc is a good angle, a sort of default round robin effect in the minds of fans ala hearns, hagler, duran, and leonard.

boxing fans don’t flip, i’m not comparing the stories decade of the 80’s with those guys, i’m just saying it’s the same angle to excite fans: a bunch of guys that pose different problems strategy wise for one another, ie: lots of interesting and different matchups regardless of the winners.

Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.

by theworldsoldestsport on Mar 30, 2010 10:50 AM EDT reply actions  

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