In Defense of Alistair Overeem vs. Brett Rogers as a Title Fight
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 12:58 PM EST
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Many MMA fans seem to be up in arms over the idea of the May bout between Alistair Overeem and Brett Rogers being for the Strikeforce heavyweight title. I, however, don't see what the concern is all about. Let's take a look at the logic in this matchmaking:
- Assuming that M-1 and Strikeforce can manage to work out the Fedor Emelianenko contractual situation they are planning on a Fedor vs. Fabricio Werdum fight. That takes Werdum off the table as a potential opponent as he is M-1 approved (which is never a guarantee with anyone else) and can take a fight as soon as the contractual situation allows.
- According to the USA TODAY / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings, Brett Rogers is the #8 heavyweight in the world while Alistair Overeem checks in at #9. In terms of the "pure sporting context" these two men are the highest rated fighters outside of Fedor in the promotion (Werdum checks in at #10).
- Strikeforce needs to reintroduce Overeem to the general audience and they need to do so with him defending his title. It's confusing enough that they're selling Fedor as the best fighter in the division without him being the champion, they don't need to now introduce their champion without having him defend his belt. Also, if he defends impressively then they have a comparison in place for a potential fight with Fedor (assuming M-1 would be willing to fight Alistair).
- If Rogers wins then it makes the Fedor win look even more impressive and sets up an easy to promote rematch, this time with a title on the line.
- In the case that the Fedor situation does not get worked out then a divisional structure is being created for the promotion with Rogers or Overeem at the top of the division and Werdum, Arlovski, Silva, Lashley..etc filling out the rest of the picture.
Is this the absolute ideal situation? Absolutely not. But it's also not the trainwreck that people are making it out to be. Strikeforce is making a title fight that introduces their champion against a familiar, marketable opponent with a storyline that has been developing for quite some time. It's not Fedor/Overeem, but I'll take it.
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I agree 100%
I don’t understand why everyone was so upset about this. Actually come to think of it, when it was first announced that this would be a non-title fight, everyone was complaining the title wouldn’t be on the line. I guess you can’t please everyone, I’ll enjoy the title fight.
by Myke25 on Mar 3, 2010 11:35 AM EST reply actions
Yeah, pretty much.
If they are going to make the fight it should be a title fight. Non title fights are stupid. It leaves toe doors open for a paper champion like Jorge Santiago
Fans are bipolar.
No offense to those suffering from mental illness, but fans, especially hardcore fans, can be irrational at times. I was upset when it was a non title fight, but now that it is, I have no problems with it. IMO, as a fan, if Fedor and M1 are gonna pull these shenanigans, then forget them. I am sick and tired of title fights or other great fights being held up due to business tactics. I understand it’s part of the game, and I don’t begrudge anyone from making more money, but as a fan, I just want to see fights. I have no problems with the Rogers / Overeem title fight. Bring it on, I say!
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Not sure if it is relevent, but with Fedor being the WAMMA champ, it still makes sense that Rogers lost to him and still gets a crack at the SF belt. SF could use WAMMA champ title as a way of making sense of all this. In this way, the winner of this fight gets a shot at Fedor to unify the belts. This sort of makes WAMMA worth mentioning, which is a common nightmare I have.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
please tell me you didn’t use “wamma” and “making sense” in the same sentence.
by woooburn on Mar 3, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Given that they haven’t updated their rankings since November…I don’t know how much we can count them into the equation. But simply saying that it’s for a crack at fedor should be enough.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
To the degree that the fans are educated enough to know Fedor is #1, title or no title then that logic makes sense. But for the other fans, it helps the logic along.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
There is no need to over-think this by trying to put this WAMMA title into the equation. The WAMMA title means nothing, and I highly doubt that it will play any sort of factor in this. I don’t think that Coker cares much for the WAMMA title as well.
by chrisbboy82 on Mar 3, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would always prefer the champion defends his belt anytime he fights at his weightclass. Im a strong advocate of the idea “if you beat the champion, you are the champion”.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
yes, just trying to somehow reinforce the idea of Rogers vs Overeem as a title fight is ok despite Rogers’ recent loss.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
I agree. I just think you make a mess and further strip the title of any form of legitimacy is all.
My feeling is that most titles are arbitrary until the general populous gives them meaning. I would like to hear anyone try to justify the SF HW title as a meaningful title at this point.
The Fedor situation is unfortunate because the logical thing to me would be to strip AO of the title and set up a four man tournament with him, Rogers, Werdum and Fedor.
The title is relevant
as it changes the rule set and game planning the fight. Overeem’s conditioning was always a problem with a weight cut, so in a five rounder he may be at a disadvantage that he wouldn’t face otherwise.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
That’s relevant to the fighters, sure, but still arbitrary. Under the current rules in Nevada you can also make a non-title fight under those rules too.
Does the SF HW title give anyone the impression that even after this fight the holder of the belt will be the number 1 HW in the world? The number 1 HW in SF? The number 1 HW on that card (assuming Fedor fights)?
No, so how can you call that title relevant? What does it symbolize? That this guys is special so his fights get scheduled for 5 rounds?
I've said it in other threads
There is no fight to determine the #1 HW in the world except Fedor winning. If he loses, the other guy is top 5 and Lesnar is the new #1 until he loses. And I’m totally ok with that.
I don’t care that this title fight won’t determine the #1 HW in the world. The UFC hasn’t had a title fight to do that… ever. HW was always all about PRIDE, between Fedor, Nog, Barnett, Cro Cop, and the like.
Rogers vs. Overeem is a great fight that should have happened about 9 months ago, but I’m stoked to see it now too. The title… whatever.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Read my entire post. The title doesn’t have to prove who’s number 1 in the world, but it does have to prove something, which this fight doesn’t.
I agree it’s a great fight, I just think it further reinforces the arbitrary status of most titles in combat sports.
I thought I summarized my thoughts effectively... I'll bold my main point to make it more clear..
Titles at HW hardly matter and rarely have. The only HW title fight I can think of that truly mattered was Nog vs. Fedor I, being a major changing of the guard in MMA. Nog vs. Fedor III, proving it was no fluke, also was important.
Nobody in the UFC could keep up a streak against decent competition and the top guys frequently washed out of the org or fizzled (Rizzo, Randleman, Bas, Ricco, Early Couture, Barnett). The division was weak as hell. Their title never mattered compared to PRIDE. I don’t see why Strikeforce should catch any extra shit over their title being irrelevant due to Fedor that the UFC hasn’t or doesn’t.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 3, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t get the whining.
A non-title fight is a much worse idea. They are stupid, and have the possibility for just as many issues if Rogers wins.
Werdum v overeem seems like a good option at first, but it’s terrible in reality. If you do that, you are giving up on the Fedor/Werdum fight, and then who is Fedor going to fight in may if the contract issues get resolved?
Yeah, the confusion created by a win Rogers in in a non-title fight is really scary:
Rogers beat the Strikeforce champion but doesn’t have the belt, Fedor beat the guy who beat the Strikeforce champion and the promotion isn’t shy about calling him the best fighter on the planet and he has some belt most people have never heard of by an organization with rankings that haven’t been updated in 4 months, and the guy who gets to be champion just lost and in a linear fashion is below the other two men.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
so.....
rec it?
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Mar 3, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Simple...
who is Fedor going to fight in may if the contract issues get resolved?
Whoever his management team thinks is a favorable matchup at that time.
Werdum
Werdum already beat Allistair so he’s the right match up. then he fights the winner of Rogers, Overeem.
Right.
Werdum beat Overeem, Fedor beat Rogers (recently enough for it to matter). Losers bracket fights winners bracket. Any match-up out of that is a good fight, since they are all top 10 fighters.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I’m not sure where people are up in arms about this Rogers/Overeem fight. I would like to believe people get stoked whenever top guys (who’ve never fought) are fighting. Anyways, hopefully Overeem can win so we are treated to Overeem/Fedor instead of a potential Rogers rematch.
by Postpubescent on Mar 3, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
The Reason is simple: Strikeforce titles don't mean anything.
I know they are a growing promotion, but they have created a mess with their belts.
Because:
The lightweight and middleweight titles have been the co-main events to non- title fights. Without top billing Strike force isn’t even respecting their belts.
Additionally:
The middleweight title is owned by a Welterweight
The Welterweight champion fights at middleweight half the time, but won’t fight Sheilds
The lightheavyweight champion only has one possible opponent.
The heavyweight title went undefended for two years
A fighter coming off a loss gets the firstheavyweight title shot in two years.
How to become a top ten HW...
Step 1. become a known, upper-mid tier LHW, consistently losing to top competition….
Step 2. Move up in weight, and beat another mid-tier fighter for his offbrand HW title…
Step 3. Leave the title in Limbo for 2 Years whilst eating Horse Meat and Fighting K1
Step 4. Use the Bobby Lashley Guide to MMA match making….
The biggest thing is to always remain non UFC affiliated and you’ll be just fine…
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
by Loot on Mar 3, 2010 12:10 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Took the words right out of my mouth
by MikeD32 on Mar 3, 2010 12:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Overeem wants a bigger boost, a scheduled fight with Fedor could get him into the top 5.
Barnett was consensus number 2 HW in the world after beating Hidehiko Yoshida, Jeff Monson, Pedro Rizzo and Gilbert Yvel
Meanwhile, Dos Santos has beaten Fabricio Werdum, Stefan Struve, Mirko Cro Cop and Gilbert Yvel and can’t crack the top 5
by truck on Mar 3, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Since you just hit and run in the other thread I’ll repost it here:
- His last loss was in September of 2007. In that time he has gone 7-0 (1 NC) with the NC being a fight against Cro Cop that he was clearly winning. Now yes, quality of competition is an issue, but he’s keeping a busy schedule and winning which is important. Let’s look at the guys around him.
- #10 Werdum has a case to be ranked higher but it’s tenuous at best. His win over Overeem was long ago enough that we shouldn’t place too much weight on it in a current view of the division. Werdum also hasn’t had a winning streak of more than 2 fights since August of 2005.
- #11 Arlovski has lost 2 straight.
- #12 Barnett has been out of competition too long and it’s hard to place him anywhere given that we KNOW he is on steroids as he has tested positive three times.
- #13 Gonzaga, in the same time period that Overeem has been on his winning streak, has picked up a few losses…and his wins have been over McCully, Hendricks, and Tuchscherer. Not a strong enough resume to overtake Overeem’s last few years.
- #14 Couture, not a heavyweight anymore
- #15 Mercer, just…no.
- #16 Aleksander Emelianenko hasn’t fought in almost a year among other reasons.
- #17 Antonio Silva lost his last fight to a guy ranked below Overeem
- #18 Pedro Rizzo lost 2 of his last 3
- #19 King Mo isn’t a heavyweight
- #20 Cro Cop was losing to Overeem and has lost several fights lately
I think that’s going far enough down the rankings. What am I missing? Who should be ranked above him?
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
block quote fail...
but the point still stands
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Good luck getting a reply out of him.
He loves that hit-and-run commenting. Being responsible for what you say is troublesome apparently.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 3, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, his screen name is "Loot."
Normally you don’t stick around, ya know?
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
I didn't realize pud333 was that much better than Loot.
lol.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
What are you talking about?
I actually did reply to his other comment, I just happen to be multitasking. Didn’t realize we were on a schedule, nor that you apparently recall an imaginary history where I troll this site.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Glad to be proven wrong.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 3, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
The problem I have with this is:
Overeem middleout at light heavyweight then moved up, beat Paul Buentelly and went on a roll against mostly nobody’s. No noteable wins = no reason to consider him even close to legit.
Carwin didn’t get top 10 consider ation until he beat Gonzaga.
Rogers didn’t get top 10 consideration until he beat Arlovski.
They were both on winstreaks with a lot of early stopages. Sure, Overeem has faced washed up former names instead of no names, but that doesn’t make the wins more valid.
In the last two years, Stefan Struve has 8 wins and one loss. That loss came to a legitmate top 6 HW. His wins include Chase Gormley, Denis Stojnic, and the same Paul Buentello and a bunch of nobody’s. Is Overeem’s resume of that period drasticly better?
As easily as you can argue Overeem’s placement in to top 10 I think you can argue his placement in a class with Carwin before the gonzaga fight, Rogers before the Arlovski fight and Current Stefan Struve.
“What am I missing?”
The fact that almost all those guys have beaten people in the past to merit being ranked that high while all Overeem has done is crushed cans. I’d much rather rank a guy highly who has lost to top 20 competition and beaten others than a guy who has just beaten crappy opponents and nothing more.
by ufc4 on Mar 3, 2010 1:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So WHO should be ranked above him?
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
He shouldn't be ranked period.
IMO Overeem is like any random HW with an unbeaten record who hasn’t beaten anyone good.
He’s Brett before his KO of AA.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
the funny thing is...
I think Overeem is obviously going to be in the top 10… I think he beats Rogers, will probably eventually avenge his loss to Werdum, and has a chance at beating Fedor. I also think he beats Arlovski if they fight…
I’m just of the opinion that he hasn’t done one single thing to enter the top 10… If Tim Sylvia starts rattling off wins against the James Thompsons of the Worlds, he won’t be thrust into the top ten of the division, even if he does it 7 times in a night.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Shit. I lost my reply I was typing when Firefox crashed.
But basically this: Buentello, Hunt and Cro Cop were all pretty highly regarded when they fought him and he handled all of them with considerable ease. If he manages to avoid Cro Cops nuts in that fight his resume looks better.
Strength of schedule is an issue for him but in my mind rankings also involve an objective ability to look at a guy’s skills and HOW he is beating the guys he is beating. Overeem is MURDERING these guys. So I can take that, and the rather iffy depth after about #7 in the heavyweight division and make the educated decision that he belongs above guys like Gonzaga and Antonio Silva.
I’m willing to say that you could rank him as low as #14 if you have major concerns about his strength of schedule (Fight Matrix has him at #12 based on their formula). But to say he shouldn’t be ranked at all is hard for me to take seriously
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Damn close to being literal.
Overeem is MURDERING these guys.
Did we ever get news on Fujita’s health after new years?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 3, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
According to Overeem he was taken to the hospital and was in a coma for six hours.
by HarmlessNinja on Mar 4, 2010 3:47 AM EST up reply actions
i meant ranked in the top 10.
Brent I agree with you that he has been killing guys… and I don’t think he is incapable of beating the fighters in the top 10… I just never felt that he did enough, and benefited from being outside of the UFC.
Hunt was coming of a few losses already, and since CroCop its been a bunch of nothing.
Goodridge has lost 5 in a row… Thompson has lost 7 of 10…. neither of Tony Sylvester’s last 2 wins even have an MMA victory, and Sherman Pendergarst the win before that has lost to every recognizable name he’s ever faced. Fighting Fujita in 2009… eeeeeeeeeeeeh
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Really?
I don’t think Buentello ever was regarded as a world beater. He was smashed by Arlovski and was fighting in Strikeforce (not a big promotion at that time)
Hunt was on a two fight losing streak (3 loses including K-1) and was coming off an extended lay off. He has since lost two consecutive fights to middleweights.
Cro Cop had just lost to Gabe Gonzaga and Chieck Congo. Even if it wasn’t for th NC how would a victory prove him better to be better than either of them?
Until he faces and beats at least one name opponent, he should be ranked with the likes of:
Cheick Congo
Stefan Struve
Antonio Silva
Jeff Monson
Those guys are all ranked around 15 – 20
Can you really argue that he has substantialy better wins than anyone of those guys?
I don’t care if they have losses or not, especially since they pretty much all came against ranked opponents. Overeem hasn’t proven himself against anything close to elite competion and I don’t think he has proven himself any mre than those guys.
The only thing he has proven is that people are impressed by his big muscles.
This is a very valid arguement...
When you are fighting opponents that are ranked within the top ten in the world and you win some (even if you lose some) you are not a lesser fighter than the guy who went 10 – 0 fighting in back yards in Alabama. As a HW Overeem has not proven himself capable of beating anyone worth mention.
If a random HW
reeled off the same wins as Overeem has, would he be top 10? At least the guys you mention are fighting credible opponents…
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
The real problem here is that they didn't have any other choice...
…given the shallowness of their talent pool.
Also: pretending that Brett Rogers deserves to be where he is in the rankings instead of accepting that he was pushed up there by the fact that he was facing Fedor is a little silly.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
I’m okay with Brett’s ranking to be honest. Now in hindsight is a win over AA that big of a deal? Eh, jury is out, but Brett has some pretty good wins with Humphry and Murphy. Not top 25 by any means but still solid and all wins by stoppage.
At this point I’m more concerned that Arlovski is ranked 11 with two devastating KOs and hasn’t really looked all that impressive in his recent wins.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 3, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
does bully beatdown constitute a recent win?
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Arlovski looked pretty impressive in his recent wins. I don’t know which fights you were talking about. He’s the only person to finish Roy and his striking looked crisp.
The man known simply as "Christmas Cheesesteak"
I disagree
I think Rogers deserves to be in the top 10 right now. I think it is just right that he is above these guys right now.
11 Andrei Arlovski
12 Josh Barnett
13 Gabriel Gonzaga
14 Randy Couture
15 Ray Mercer
16 Aleksander Emelianenko
17 Antonio Silva
18 Pedro Rizzo
19 Muhammed Lawal
20 Mirko Filipovic
10-1 record w/ 9 KOs. Only loss to Fedor, is justifiable to be a top ten HW.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
quality
not quantity :/ jesus fuckin christ…
what next lashley is gonna be justifiably top 10 if he makes it to 10/0 fighting garbage
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Mar 3, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Randy for starters
Just for the sheer volume of contribution and the fact his last HW fight was in the running for fight of the year against nog who at the time, hadn’t been finished by cain
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Mar 3, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
now YOU stop with the nonsense
He was a HW at the time im referring
and when rodgers faught fedor
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Mar 3, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
so given that his last two fights were against LHWs, we should still keep him at top 10 in the HW division?.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
No, that’s ridiculous. In all likelihood he’ll never have another fight at HW, no reason to keep ranking him so highly when he lost his last 2 HW fights.
by ufc4 on Mar 3, 2010 1:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
vivero has a reasonable argument, do I agree with it, no, but its reasonable. Rogers minus Fedor is still undefeated with a big KO over AA.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
yea
but right no king mo is undefeated with a big KO win over mike whitehead, doesn’t mean jackshit
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Mar 3, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
That pretty much is the crux of the argument. As usual – as always – the HW division is the thinnest division in the sport. So, there’s a massive gulf between 1 and 10 in the rankings; there’s probably an even bigger gulf between 10 and 20, which isn’t the case some other divisions, where the talent between 8 or 9 and 18 or 19 is pretty thick. Rogers doesn’t “deserve to be top 10”; Rogers deserves to be perceived as better than those other guys. If someone could find five more guys who were better to slot ahead of Rogers, then sure, he’d be outside of the top 10. But it just doesn’t MEAN anything right now.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
care to expound
on the difference
Rogers doesn’t "deserve to be top 10"; Rogers deserves to be perceived as better than those other guys.
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
To the logic. AA was number 2 up until he lost to Fedor. That didn’t drop him that far and then he lost to Rogers. Should Rogers not be top 10 after a victory over a solid top 10 opponent? Where was Whitehead ranked when Mo beat him? That’s right, nowhere.
AA was number 2.. up until fedor bea thim?
he wasn’t even at number two until they announced he would be fighting fedor
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Mar 3, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Revisionist history dude. The large consensus of most rankings was that AA was number 2, maybe number 3 when he fought Fedor.
And you still haven’t explained why a KO of Mike Whitehead is as valuable if not more so than a KO of AA.
If you have a point make it.
Arlovski was #2 since
he left the UFC around# 5-7, then other guys lost and dropped while he kept winning. There is no question that he was a top 5 HW, handily top 3, arguably #2. Fedor isn’t Stephen Colbert, the bump is either total fiction or massively overstated.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
That may be true, but it doesn’t change the fact that AA was a solid top 10 fighter when he fought Rogers. Rogers ran through him. Should we still not rank Rogers in the to 10?
I was expanding on what you said
not arguing it. Was more of a retort to blubber. Sorry for the confusion.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 3, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
I am tired of that you magically jump to #2 when you fight Fedor myth. AA was #6 when he left the UFC. He moved up because:
- Tim Sylvia, Randy Couture, and Big Nog all loss
- He jumped past Josh Barnett because his quality of wins were superior (Ben Rothwell, Roy Nelson)
Brett Rogers was ranked number 9 when he went 10-0 and beat AA. This was before they announced the Fedor fight. At the time of the Fedor fight he went all the way up to 8. What a bounce.
Rankings discussions are fun. :)
In terms of rankings you can’t just look at two fighters in a bubble. In a division as shallow as HW you can’t ignore what happens to fighters around you in the rankings as well.
I agree that fighters who fight Fedor tend to get an inflated ranking BUT I still find it hard to argue the point that going into his fight with Rogers AA was a solid top ten fighter.
It's not a myth though.
Take the time and watch the rating sites – in months where nobody in the top 10 fights, you’ll still seem movement as future fights get announced.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Ok... but it doesn't happen in a vacuum.
Watch Dos Santos and Cain get a bump in their ranking if Mir loses to Carwin and he drops below them. They are both about to move up a spot over Nog’s loss.
Hell, last month Anderson Silva went from #9 to #5 at LHW on the consensus list. What did he do to earn a ranking change?
Vitor went from #6 to #4 over the last month, when the only news is that he’s gotten injured. He hasn’t won at MW since Affliction 2, and that was over Matt Lindland. Is there an Anderson Silva bump we don’t know about?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 3, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, for sure. It's not just Fedor.
But Fedor is the most obvious because he’s #1 and he pulls up some very odd people. :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
So if it’s a non-title fight and Rogers wins (which is a good possibility IMO) you have an even worse situation. I mean what has Overeem done to make the belt that sacred? Beaten Buentello? What would be even worse is if Rogers went in and beat the champ and didn’t get his belt. I agree with the post, it makes sense that this is for the title, and it makes sense that it’s Rogers who is fighting for the title. Had he gotten beat down by Fedor in the first 20 seconds there might be a reasons to make it non-title, but Rogers more than proved himself.
Fedor brings way too much drama. Scott is probably regretting making the deal.
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 3, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Considering the Fedor deal was the one that really put SF on the map, and brought the ire of Zuffa when before they could skate by relatively quietly, yeah, I think it’s fair to say Scott probably has a big headache by now.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
Hey guys Overeem is finally gonna fight in the US for Strikeforce!
Yay!
…but its not for the belt.
Boo!
Wait, now it is for the belt!
Boo!
…
What just happened here? lol Cant please everyone I guess.
I'm gonna make a bold prediction here and say Cain "pillowhands" (as some of you have called him) lol Velasquez catches Nog right on the chin and finishes via strikes on the ground. Nog looked good against an old Randy. It didn't show me much. We’ll see.
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 3, 2010 1:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Tournament, please?
I thought Strikeforce was going to revive tournaments in the US. Isn’t this the perfect opportunity?
There's a WAMMA belt in my Cracker Jacks!
Tweeting @dmiller23
Call me crazy
I think Rogers beats Fedor in a rematch. He was giving Fedor all he could handle up until that final punch.
Who’d of thunk that Brett Rogers is the best Strikeforce HWY?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
Excellent Job by Coker and SF of trying to finally deliver fights that matter. Stop whining about this, Fedor and M1 are the problem and the reason this fight is happening.
Any one who has been in big money business negotiations knows it is simply about who shows that the other is more important to the equation. This is why its a title fight and why they are putting three title fights on in April. They are saying to Vadim and M1 and all the other idiots like Jerry Millen that we can put on relevant fights without Fedor. We can draw ratings without and who besides the hardcores like the posters here on BE even knows the intricacies of who is the best or not. I can promise you that the marketing for this fight will revolve around Brett Rogers destroying Arlovski and have no mention of the Fedor fight whatsoever. And Vadim can keep bashing Overeem and the roster of SF but what does it mean for the American TV audience (SF’s #1 concern): Absolutely nothing!!!!
I commend Coker and SF. They played their hand and it is up to M1 to respond.
"Objective" HW ranking (i.e. based on beating ranked opponents)
1. F. Emilianenko
2. Lesnar
3. Mir
4. Velasquez
5. Nogueira
6. Couture
7. Sylvia
8. Rogers
9. Arlovski
10. Dos Santos
11. Werdum
12. Carwin
13. Gonzaga
14. Herring
15. Kongo
16. CroCop
17. Barnett
18. A. Emilianenko
19. Rizzo
20. Monson
21. Kharitanov
22. Overeem
Lesnar at #2 fails hard. And no he shouldnt be at #1.
I'm gonna make a bold prediction here and say Cain "pillowhands" (as some of you have called him) lol Velasquez catches Nog right on the chin and finishes via strikes on the ground. Nog looked good against an old Randy. It didn't show me much. We’ll see.
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 3, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'm happy that its a title fight.
I think it is going to be a good competative fight and we will get to see were they both stand in the rankings.
War Mr.Rogers!
Kimbo wants to take your caterpiller and do bad things to it.
and hey...
When Rogers beats him, cuz he’s nothing, Fedor already has his number and will be champ again.
"One should always be cold minded and remember that a ridiculous incident may occur any time."
by At Least On Paper on Mar 3, 2010 6:36 PM EST reply actions
not fair at all
rogers lost his last fight to a guy who is undefeated….gets a title shot what the hell? No way can you twist this into fair. It is great that overeem is gonna finally fight and defend the belt but rogers does not deserve the shot. why can’t overoids fight fedor? Fock M1 Global. please bring fedor to UFC won’t happen because of m-1. drop m-1 fedor and become the babe ruth of mma
It's crazy that you needed to post this...
but you did, and it was good, so thanks.
This is the best fight possible, at this time — it should be obvious to everyone. But, beyond all that, it’s actually a very interesting fight.
I'm just a dude who's trying to put it together.
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