What's Next for Frank Mir?
by Michael Rome on Mar 29, 2010 11:54 PM EDT
in MMA News
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After screaming in horror at Dan Miragliotta's decision to allow Shane Carwin to repeatedly punch a man laying face down with his arms out, it struck me that Frank Mir's career is once again at a crossroads. Having lost two of three fights at heavyweight, he once again finds himself in a position where he must win his next fight to stay relevant.
Frank Mir is one of the company's top attractions, mostly because of his way with words. He doesn't need to be a world beater to stay on top of cards, he simply needs to stay relevant. Even though he lost to Shane Carwin this past Saturday, if he wins two fights while Brock, Shane, and Cain work out the title situation, he could find himself right in line for a shot at the title again. I don't believe he has the physical gifts required to be the UFC heavyweight champion, but he certainly has the brains to remain a top draw.
The first thing Mir must decide is whether to continue his effort to put on size. His physical transformation suggests to me that he spends almost as much time lifting as he does training his skills. Coming out of his fight with Lesnar, I believe Mir drew the wrong conclusion. He convinced himself that strength was the only reason for his loss, and that if he could close the gap he had the skills to beat anyone.
He may have looked as big or bigger than Shane Carwin, but it didn't matter. Carwin was the stronger man, and had his way with Mir. Mir's defense against the cage was hapless; he simply stood still without making any notable efforts to create distance or pull guard. It was almost as if he didn't anticipate the fight taking place anywhere besides on the ground or at striking range.
I think an appropriate fight for Frank Mir is Junior Dos Santos. Dos Santos has been on a reign of terror since debuting in the UFC against Fabricio Werdum, but he's still a few fights away from a title shot. A dominant win over Frank Mir would put him in prime position to go for the title at the end of 2010. For Mir, in order to prove his relevance he must show that he can beat one of the UFC's young lions at heavyweight.
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JDS “a few fights away from a title shot”? Seriously? I would think one win over a top 10 guy like Mir should do it. I mean the guy has 5 wins in a row including Werdum, Cro Cop, and Gonzaga, does he really need 7 or 8 wins in a row? Cain has 5 wins and he’s getting his title shot.
It’s a statement of reality. Carwin fights in July, then Cain’s shot will probably be in November or December. The earliest JDS gets a shot is probably April of next year, and I think it’s very unlikely they’ll give him only one fight.
by Michael Rome on Mar 29, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
JDS vs. Mir, winner of that fights loser of Lesnar/Carwin b/c Cain is garaunteed next shot. So basically JDS is probably 2 wins away the way I see it. I think that’s the best way to use these 5 guys until a few of the up and comers get more experience. The loser of JDS/Mir takes a backseat in the title contention while the winner goes on to fight a #1 contender match. If the UFC does it this way they’ll have a minimum of 2 legit contenders in case of injury. (i.e. Vitor injury @ MW)
Unlike most people ive noticed lately, one of your first comments on this site is very sensible.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
I think Mir is still a contendar and extremley relevant.....
He just needs to stop using his face to block punches, because apparently it just doesn’t work
I won’t watch that fight again as a Mir fan. He thoroughly pissed me off. I would have much rather him been taken down immediately and caught with a hammerfist from hell and KO’ed. That I would have taken as something Mir was vulnerable to. But nobody with his freaking experience should just hang out on the cage looking bored while knees and hamhocks are damaging you.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
I’ve heard this from a few people but I’m just not feeling it, I think Mir would knock him out pretty quick. I wanna see Nog fight Cro Cop.
That sounds better than Mir getting demolished by JDS.
If anything, the last few times Mir has lost, he has gotten pummeled.
Sig bet record: 1-0.
by SSreporters on Mar 29, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Mir vs Yvel
or Mir vs Todd Duffee, make Mir the new gatekeeper in the HW division. Assuming Duffee beats him.
I told you not to f*ck with me.
by Romoesbueno on Mar 29, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
What about Mir vs. Gonzaga?
Randy Hahn: "I’ve been referred to as a playa…"
by 49er16 on Mar 29, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Mir v Gonzaga
I’d love to see Mir train with Couture for a few years to learn how to wrestler. He’s never going to be a champion without that knowledge. I think he has the tools to but I think he lacks the humility to.
by kibbled_bits on Mar 29, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve always thought the same thing, a guy with as much MMA knowledge as him really has no other reason to ignore the wrestling aspect the way he does…
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
I agree...
it’s puzzling. Considering he was a HS state champ as a wrestler. He should know his grappling skills are pretty far behind his competition. I’d have to say working with a high level wrestler like Couture would be invaluable.
The more you drive, the less intelligent you are.
Wow...I never knew he had any wrestling credentials at all...
His damn fighting style never had convinced me he did….
A guy like Randy would be an amazing gift for him…
He may need more than a few weeks to be able to defend against the behemoths in the HW division but man, any amount of time with a guy like Randy would be some amount of benefit to him.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
This is the fight that makes sense to me, both are very up and down with their performances recently, but both are also names, the winner remains relevant while the loser still has recognition but would be a good fight for say Duffee if he keeps looking good.
JDS has to fight someone in that time of course, but I really believe he would smash Mir, and I can’t see Dana and co. wanting to annihilate all interest in Lesnar vs. Mir III before they have too.
by TheKeyboardWarrior on Mar 29, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
He also seems to crumble when he gets hit in the face
I’m a Mir fan and wrestling would help his game, but once the dude gets jacked in the face it looks like he just wants to give up. Even the first time Carwin got him pressed against the cage and got in a few right hands to Mirs face, I was thinking how he looked out of it.
I’d like to see somebody else that those punches and not get putdown, there is a difference between not wanting to get hit and being put down Carwin just hits that hard. And his wrestling wasn’t the problem it was great execution from Carwin that won him the fight people really need to stop reaching when it comes to Mir.
Yeah, I've mentioned this one before too...
…I think it’s a good rebound fight for both, in that it’s marketable, and either fighter has an even chance at winning it.
While I agree with Rome that a win over one of the young lions in the division keeps him relevant at HW, I don’t think that has to be his very next fight after just getting crushed by one those young lions.
There are other options available for Frank. They could go w/ Gonzaga, or try something like Mir against Roy Nelson depending on how his fight against Struve turns out, or Mir/Cro Cop depending on how Cro Cop/Barry plays out.
Frank truly looked like he did not give a shit before and during the fight. He looked thoroughly bored when Carwin had him on the fence. Now, I don’t know if he is trying to be the super relaxed, calm and collected or if he just thinks he is that awesome. I would think he might learn something from this and come back a little more focused, like on who he is fighting maybe. I also thought that this might happen after he got BROCKSMASHED at 100…..we all saw how that turned out.
Frank has been and always will be his own worst enemy. Hopefully none of us are fooled in the future by “the new and improved Frank Mir”. This version of Frank was the same thing as every other version we have been led to believe existed……Overrated.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by Earl Montclair on Mar 29, 2010 10:11 PM EDT reply actions
I can’t even fathom what he was thinking. Did he believe Carwin only had power at range? Or did he think Carwin was working for a stall to wear him down?
As soon as I saw that second uppercut hit less than a half second after the first I knew Mir was toast. Frank needs to be fighting smarter than that. If a guy like Lesnar or Carwin hits you, you’re going to be waking up for the second time that day.
Get rid of the ramp!
by ihateemo on Mar 29, 2010 10:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
so every time Frank loses to a top 10 guy
he’s an overrated pos…. and when he beats ANYONE he is also overrated, and only won because of some convenient mishap.
His game plan or lack thereof should be criticized, and probably needs more emphasis on the technical flaws in his game, but he did lose to a top ranked guy… No need to be so harsh
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
This is the internet
Guys who win are unbeatable, until they lose, at which point they are overrated.
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Mar 29, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
AGREED!
Frank Mir is a tough challenge for anyone in my opinion. Carwin has tremendous punching power and he is going to be a tough test for anyone. I still feel that Mir is going to be a force and his motivation will bring him back stronger. I am a Mir fan and was actually just thinking about how I think he is still very relevant and a tough test. I think Mir would have big trouble with JDS however. It’d be tough for him to get JDS to the ground and JDS boxing is brutal. JDS needs to fight a tough wrestler and Cain Valasquez is the man for that job in my opinion.
Prime examples: Machida-san and Rua-san
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 29, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
If I get what you are doing
We would refer to them as -senshu instead of -san, since they are fighters, nit picking FTL.
I hope I’m not 100% off topic once again.
I'm a lover not a fighter
No no, for these guys the only valid suffix is -sama
And as long as we’re talking language quibbles, I generally only hear fighters and other competitors referred to as -senshu during an event or in reference to an event, not just in general when talking about them.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz
by CasualMMAFan on Mar 30, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
What’s the difference between -san, -senshu, and -sama?
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 30, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
-san is like Mister and -sama is reserved for royalty iirc.
No clue with senshu. Anyone wanna elucidate? :)
That's pretty close.
-san is the default “polite” suffix; although similar to mister or miss, it’s used more widely because the Japanese use surnames much more frequently.
-sama shows an extreme amount of politeness, and while it is used for royalty and such, you also hear it used fairly frequently by people in the service industry when addressing their customers.
-senshu is a much less common suffix that specifically refers to a participant or competitor in some event, game, or sports match. You’ll hear this suffix a lot if you ever watch sports on Japanese TV, or one of those wacky Japanese TV game shows. If you go back and watch the old Pride fights, you’ll hear the fighters referred to with this suffix.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz
by CasualMMAFan on Mar 30, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I clearly see a difference between Machida, Rua and Mir in this respect.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by Earl Montclair on Mar 29, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose that I am tired of he hearing about how “this is the best Frank Mir we have ever seen” and how “what we are seeing is Frank Mir rising to his true potential”. That shit is getting so tiring to hear time and time again.
He made the same mistake two times in a row against heavy handed wrestlers. He let them both bully him against the fence and contol him. Brock did it on the ground and Shane did it in the clinch.
And yeah, he did lose to a top ranked guy. But this is Frank Mir we are talking about here, no Paul Buentello. He has been puffed up for years to be one of the absolute best. His only win since the motorcycle accident against a legit top guy was the fight against Nog, and he earned that without a doubt. But when you are supposed to be one of the best. You should beat top guys.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by Earl Montclair on Mar 29, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
When two top guys fight each other, one of them is going to lose. Stylistically, Carwin or Lesnar are bad matchups for Mir. It also discredits Lesnar because Frank Mir is arguably Lesnar’s best win to date (if one says Couture, I wouldn’t disagree though), and the same goes for Carwin. Not to overrate Mir, but he is the first fighter to beat Lesnar, first fighter to submit Cheick Kongo, and first fighter to KO Nogueira. He’s definitely not a slouch, and is obviously above that mid-tier by beating the likes of Kongo, Hardonk, and fighters who were up there at one time in Tim Sylvia and Nogueira.
by chrisbboy82 on Mar 30, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Gonzaga would make for a nice opponent for Mir’s next fight. Dos Santos may be too much for Mir right now, and a loss would potentially derail any future run he may have. And if Frank were to win, it derails Dos Santos’s short term title run.
Gonzaga is as safe a fight for Mir as possible, while still maintaining a bog name opponent— especially when considering that most other hw’s are scheduled for future fights.
I could go for Mir vs Gonzaga.
Keep sleepin' on me...
by Neo X on Mar 29, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that fight makes sense
Both guys coming of big losses. It would be a great draw. And the loser is screwed. I like these kind of matchups, it brings out the best in a fighter. This idea reminds me of Chuck vs. Wanderlei.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
Me as well. I like Mir/Nog 2, but GG would also be great. 2 BJJ guys who think they are strikers. Winner is right back in the mix and the loser is on very thin ice.
2 BJJ guys who think they are strikers.
LMAO at your description of them. It’s perfect. I’m a fan of Mir, but damn… I’m at a loss for words when it comes to defending him right now. I guess you could say my defense is as good as his for the last fight.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
you should try reading some of the other posts on here, they seem to be figuring out says to defend him.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by Earl Montclair on Mar 30, 2010 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I like that fight
Both coming off losses. Both BJJ guys. I think JDS would walk through Mir.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 29, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
JDS is prolly gonna have to sit for awhile.
I dont know who would be a logical next step for him. The timing is all wrong for Mir, he already beat GG, he isnt gonna fight Big Nog, Todd Duffee isnt ready. So, If, Kongo doesnt fight Big Country next, I think JDS vs Kongo could be in line.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
by whardiek on Mar 29, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bingo
Dana even seemed to hint at JDS-Kongo. I think that’s the right fight, though frankly, I have a hard time seeing Kongo really taking JDS anywhere he hasn’t been before. Even after he beats Kongo, he may have to get another fight in order to give the whole Lesnar-Carwin-Cain thing enough time to sort itself out.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 29, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
JDS v Kongo wouldn’t be about taking JDS any where it would be all about safely padding JDS’s record and getting a highlight clip for when they put him against Lesnar.
Cue Rogan: And JDS just demolished a truly terrifying world class striker in Kongo who has been terrorizing the heavy weight division for years.. Chek Kongo is a scary, scary dude and JDS just walked right though him.
Cue UFC fans: Ooooooooooooh!!!
I agree.
But I also think that’d be a great (short) fight.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 30, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
you make a good point
I think you are completely counting out Kongo. I think Kongo can present some problems for JDS. He is a better and more experienced kickboxer then JDS. Kongo appears to be evolving as an MMA fighter, he relied heavily on wrestling and ground nd pound in 2 of his last 3 fights. Maybe, JDS is able to showcase his JJ skills. It would be an exciting fight, much better than Barnett vs. Mighty Mo.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
Well big nog is coming off a loss too, and I’m sure he’s itching to prove Mir bested him because he was sick.
I think that’s the best fight for both of them. A fight to prove they’re still relevant.
As for the size…when Mir first said he was going to bulk up my first reaction was “WRONG”. I felt that he had to work on his takedown defence and ground escapes. But after seeing the Kongo fight I figured “Hey maybe he was right”.
Now I don’t know. If he doesn’t work on improving his position in the cage anyone will be able to beat him – including Dos Santos or Nog.
Get rid of the ramp!
by ihateemo on Mar 29, 2010 10:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Agreed.
As for the size…when Mir first said he was going to bulk up my first reaction was "WRONG".
Functional strength != weight room strength and bulk isn’t necessarily useful if it makes you slower. You know what makes you functionally stronger? Getting your technique exactly right, so that you can take advantage of your leverage.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Mar 29, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Functional Strength Does Not Equal Weight Room Strength
Functional Strength = size or mass multiplied by range of motion and speed.
Strength isn’t simply a result of muscle development, it involves cardiovascular, neuromuscular and proprioceptive adaptions as well. Functional strength has to do with how well the strength translates to other activities. Functional strength is developed over long periods of repeated stress to the body and muscle. It requires repeated fatigue and recovery of muscles cells within the body to build the complete functionality of the mass or muscle itself. It requires the same level of strength spread across equally to all other pysical activities..
If a guy is 300 lbs and can dead lift 600 lbs and bench press 500 lbs.. It means he is strong. If that same guy can run, jump, and exert the same physical output equal or greater than someone half their size, that determines their functionality in strength.
Example:
CJ Spiller of Clemson Tigers exerted a 10ft. 4 inch broad jump at his pro day exam for the NFL. He weighs 195 lbs.
Lesnar did a broad jump of 10ft even at 302 lbs at his NFL combine exam.. Lesnar weighs 107 lbs more than CJ Spiller, so his functional strength is greater than CJ Spiller’s because his strength functions at equal or greater than that of someone nearly half the size of mass.
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
by MMAuthority on Mar 30, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
Functional strength and core strength can be used interchangeably, although they are not one in the same and core strength offers in part, a lot about functional strength.
Functional training helps link your entire body together so it performs optimally as a cohesive unit, so functional strength means how well your entire body functions at max strength output.. Using “all” muscles simultaneously to perform any task or exercise. Taking your entire mass or body and moving it with complete range of motion to exert maximum output. Functional strength doesn’t translate to mass size. It’s the exact opposite. It translates into being able to use every bit of size you have in a single unit.
Functional strength isn’t how much weight you lift, how big you are and how cut you get. Functional strength is how much you can actually do over-all with that size and strength you possess.
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Gonzaga First, then JDS
Dos Santos is too good standing for Mir, and I don’t think it’d be a great fight. He’d be looking to take him down most of the time, and probably taking a beating,
Gonzaga has a good enough ground game to nullify Mir’s, so they would probably elect to stand and bang with each other. Good for fans, good for UFC, bad for whoever loses (2 in a row).
I like Mir vs Dos Santos; I think Big Nog vs Cro Cop needs to happen soon before Cro Cop is finally done (providing Cro Cop even gets by Pat Barry). Mir vs Cro Cop can wait till both guys get back on the right track but Mir vs Dos Santos would definitely cement Dos Santos as a contender in 2011 if he could pull it off. The fact that Nog trains Dos Santos could also be used to sell the fight and to build for a Mir vs Big Nog 2.
I'm a biased Pat Barry fan, but I see no way Cro Cop gets through Pat.
Cro Cop is at the obvious end of a career, and Pat seems like a very hungry new fighter…I can’t say who has the better kickboxing skills at this very moment in their lives, but I think Pat’s youth will be the main role in that…
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
long shot pick!!
Mir vs Big Country. their match in the grappler’s quest tournament has everyone saying how lame his bjj is…
Get rid of the ramp!
by ihateemo on Mar 29, 2010 10:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Mir vs Nelson
doesnt make any sense right now, unless you are a hardcore fan, you dont really know that much about Nelson. Doesnt make sense to have someone who just fought for a belt fight someone that just won a reality show.
I told you not to f*ck with me.
by Romoesbueno on Mar 29, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Kongo seems like my choice for big country next, assuming he beats struve. It would be a step up in competetion and a high profile fight for both guys. And the most physically awkward looking fight in recent memory. lol
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
Not really since Nelson vs. Struve is this Wednesday.
Sig bet record: 1-0.
by SSreporters on Mar 29, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
okay you got me.
I was trying to be funny.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
I like Kongo vs. Nelson for sure...
We’ll see what happens with Struve though…despite what I think I’ve seen people picking Stefan for some reason…
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
Oh and I agree about Mir getting the wrong lesson from his loss to Lesnar, strength isn’t the problem it’s the fact that he can’t wrestle his way out of those clinches that loses him these fights. No matter how much he tries to muscle up he won’t be able to get out of those positions against those guys with pure strength.
JDS is the wrong fight for Mir. He’d get mauled unless he found someway to get it to the ground quick.
I say give him Nog, Cro-Crop, or perhaps Gonzaga. I wouldn’t mind Nelson vs Mir either
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Mir’s problem isn’t striking at a distance it’s his wrestling(and clinch)defense. Heck Mir has been training striking longer than he has been training BJJ. It would be a good fight and may answer those questions about Dos Santos ground game.
mir vs cro cop
I think it would be more competitive than most think. They could both shine at what there good at.
HI YAH!
by Thats It For you! on Mar 29, 2010 10:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
mir would kill cro cop
cro cop has no real fight left in him and is stickin with one punch the whole fight
by Richard Doughty on Mar 29, 2010 10:38 PM EDT reply actions
Dos Santos seems like a bad fight right now. The UFC probably wants to Mir to hang around, get a solid win under his belt, and remain somewhat relevant. Having Dos Santos paste him with better stand-up isn’t going to do that. He’ll probably fight one of the fading legends next. Gonzaga seems like a good fit as well.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
It might not make the most sense for Mir, but Mir-JDS is a must. Mir is the only other top 10 HW in the UFC they can match JDS up against. Anyone else would be a major step back.
Now, if Roy Nelson beats Stefan Wednesday Night, put Roy vs Kongo. Winner of that fight gets the winner of JDS/MIR. Winner of that gets a title shot.
i think the question is what does dana want to do with mir
like if he has him fight jds , its kinda lose -lose
just like how they dont want cain to fight jds
i could see the ufc giving him someone like hardonk , yvel , buntello
just to get him a win
by Richard Doughty on Mar 29, 2010 10:43 PM EDT reply actions
Mir should stop fighting and just become an announcer.
Randy Hahn: "I’ve been referred to as a playa…"
i bet jds fights kongo
kongo is basically a gatekeeper , i dont think the ufc cares if he wins or loses
and it would give jr another ko victory
by Richard Doughty on Mar 29, 2010 10:44 PM EDT reply actions
Kongo has never been knocked out in the UFC
So JDS can just be the first to do so.
Sig bet record: 1-0.
by SSreporters on Mar 29, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
And what would that prove about Dos Santos? Eventually he is going to have to fight someone with a real ground game. Why would they want him to go backwards instead of forwards and why does everyone think that Mir is a easy victory for Dos Santos? Just a week ago Mir was the favorite to beat Carwin.
Dos Santos has yet to deal with a guy with a pension for illegal strikes
Which could damage him greatly.
Sig bet record: 1-0.
by SSreporters on Mar 29, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
It's definitely a massive test.
I got to go with JDS via DQ.
Sig bet record: 1-0.
by SSreporters on Mar 29, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think any fighter knees guys in the nuts like Kongo does, he is a master of the art of the nutshot. Other than that I’m not sure that he really has much to offer Dos Santos at this point besides just padding his record. I rather see Dos Santos fighting a big guy like Rothwell than Kongo.
Well the thing with Kongo, as he showed against Buentello
He has shown vicious illegal knees to a downed opponent.
Kongo’s new dynamic illegal shots could pose a threat to more than just JDS’ crotch.
Sig bet record: 1-0.
by SSreporters on Mar 29, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He needs to leave the UFC and challenge Overeem to a good old fashioned no rules tough-man fight. Just let them throw until one of them has a concussion or is sterile.
by who me on Mar 29, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t know if Kongo has shown the proclivity to eat questionably illegal horse meat the same way Overeem has, lending him a distinct disadvantage.
by castleeb on Mar 29, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i think mir should fight gonzaga, that would be pretty amazing, both good on z feet and brutal on the ground, could go either way and their both hella dope:)
by TobikanJudan 6 6 6 on Mar 29, 2010 10:52 PM EDT reply actions
"both good on z feet and brutal on the ground"
Z feet? Are you German?
Sig bet record: 1-0.
by SSreporters on Mar 29, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
NO
but im totally cool:)
tell me it wouldnt be dope as balls son
by TobikanJudan 6 6 6 on Mar 29, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds dope as balls to me, looking forward to z fight!!!
by Rob J Nathan on Mar 30, 2010 8:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Funny how quickly some are to want to dismiss Mir after a loss, sorry but as much as some would like him to go aways he’s not going anywhere anytime soon.
Anyways as far as who’s next for Mir, I would like to see him get either CC or Gonzaga both guys would be nice wins in his column and would be big fights at HW for the UFC.
Why does everyone keep criticizing Mir’s added weight?
He had already gone through this process before the Kongo fight and looked fine. He didn’t seem particularly slow against Carwin until Shane’s fists flat lined him.
Mir’s real problem started with the Nog fight, where he fell in love with his striking. And even so, it ignores the fact that Mir has simply never been a durable HW: which, unlike his boxing, is something he can’t change. He doesn’t even seem to have a bad chin really: his body just seems to physically react by saying “thank you sir, may I have another” until the ref has seen enough. Mir’s losses are weird like that where he just seems to take unanswered shot after unanswered shot.
Nonetheless, I’d like to see him fight Rothwell first and foremost (now that Barry is fighting Mirko?), and failing that, the loser of Nelson/Struve. Gonzaga would be good on paper, but I honestly think Gonzaga would destroy him.
by David Castillo on Mar 29, 2010 11:00 PM EDT reply actions
Carwin may be the best HW
In the UFC. If that turns out to be the case and he beats Brock, then it’s possible that all there is to learn for Mir is that he’s no better than 3rd best HW in the UFC. Wrestlers are a bad matchup for Mir.
I think Gonzaga would be a good fair fight for both fighters – considering they’re both coming off losses.
Personally I think HW is a wrestler division because when you get to that size, you just don’t have the mobility or horizontal movement to evade a wrestler. There are no Andersion Silvas and Machidas in the heavyweight.
Yet there is a Fedor…
Cain and JDS would destroy Carwin and Lesnar right now. It’s the economics and logistics keeping either from wrapping the belt around their waist. Those two are going to be trading the belt for a while to come.
Ribbit.
Dont know about that
Carwin has a style that imposes his will on his opponent. I had picked Mir in this fight (incorrectly) because I was thinking too much about Mir’s well roundedness and forgot all about the virtue of being much better at a certain area than your opponent. And when you’re strength is in a style that you can impose at will on your opponent then it’s not very good… for your opponent.
This may sound like “Too much too soon” for some but I COULD see Carwin beating Brock, JDS and YES … Fedor.
Why? Because at HW these guys to not have the tools to evade the clinch or the takedown. Of the three I think JDS and Fedor would have the best chance. Carwin is deceptively strong, I mean stronger than Brock strong. And if Carwin is a little shorter (with shorter arms) than Brock than all the better to fight on the INSIDE, which is where he wins.
by kibbled_bits on Mar 29, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Fedor might be too much on his feet for Carwin, maybe JDS too, they seem more technical and less likely to get caught. Now he puts them against the cage and he gains 10/10 trample, except against a stronger opponent, and that’s where Lesnar have an advantage. Interesting match ups.
I'm a lover not a fighter
how do you come to that conclusion
Lesner is at least a couple of inches taller, seems to have a higher % of body fat and I get the sense that Carwin is one strong mofo
Lesnar hasn’t decimated any of his opponents to the degree that Carwin has ALL of his
by kibbled_bits on Mar 29, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
KO power and strength are two different things. Just take a look at them standing next to each other Saturday night, it’s obvious Brock is just a bigger guy than Carwin.
And Mir looked bigger than Carwin...
Its hard to judge who is the stronger of the two, really. Even if they fought, it would be hard to measure pure strength. Strongman competition maybe?
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 30, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t get this whole Brock is stronger than Carwin because he’s bigger argument. People can be smaller in stature and be stronger. And it’s not like there is some huge difference in size anyways/
We really don’t know who’s stronger between the two and we won’t know until they fight.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
Eddie Bravo made a great point.....
I heard Eddie say in an interview that if he could start training someone in MMA what would he do 1st and he said Wrestling. He said that all the people that he trained with, the wrestlers were some sort of strong that can’t be replicated when it came to grappling. He said developing those muscles early for grappling motions, and wrestling from a young age created a gap that you can’t fill later on in life.
Frank is trying to fill that gap, and he’s getting dominated by stronger wrestlers w/ wrestling backgrounds. Cain is another great example. He doesn’t have any kind of huge size but he does have tons of strength.
He didn't say impossible
Just very hard. And he’s right, GSP is like saying “Well, Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods throw that theory out the window.” GSP is a one in a million fighter.
Then quote him right.
the wrestlers were some sort of strong that can’t be replicated when it came to grappling
I'm a lover not a fighter
Of course Frank Mir was a state champion wrestler in high school.
by Jonathan Snowden on Mar 29, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gonzaga vs Mir, Nog vs Kongo? That's what I think would happen.
and also… wait for it… Kimbo vs CroCop! haha. :P
Nog vs Kongo is a great fight for a couple of reasons. It gives Nog the opportunity to bounce back against the lanky kickboxer by following the Mir blueprint for dismantling Kongo. On the flipside, it gives Kongo the chance to (gulp) score a knockout over the fading legend. That fight would give us a good look at where these guys stand in the HW division and in their respective careers.
Kimbo vs. CroCop?
Come on, Anton…we know you’ve been Twitter-bombing Dana with demands that he resign Rolles, so you can finally get your Kimbo-Gracie fight ;)
by Scott Haber on Mar 30, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I was kidding about the crocop fight. hahaha.
I wanted that Kimbo/Gracie fight as a good guilty-pleasure/freakshow-ish fight when Rolles got signed. but people bitched saying that he would absolutely kill Kimbo, and lookie here, Rolles’ gas tank was even worse than Kimbo’s.
speaking of freakshow fights, I wonder who they set up Toney against. They said he’ll probably fight at 116, but that probably leaves a few name HWs left. Randy maybe?
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 30, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I think so
especially if the Liddell-Franklin rumors for 115 pan out.
Lesnar-Carwin plus Couture-Toney would do huge numbers on PPV.
His physical transformation suggests to me that he spends almost as much time lifting as he does training his skills.
I doubt Mir’s weight training had any negative effect on his skills training.
Gaining that kind of mass is more about diet than it is about increasing training volume. One of the biggest impediments to gaining weight is overtraining. It burns up calories that are needed to build muscles and it also eats into recovery time, which is when muscle is actually built. As a matter of fact, most guys make their biggest gains when they start training LESS and start eating more and getting more serious about their post-workout recovery.
That said, all those gains in the gym may have had a detrimental effect on his mental approach. He saw himself getting stronger and figured he could bully guys around who have been doing the same kind of strength training for their entire lives. Six months of hard work may have closed the gap a little, but it was a Grand Canyon sized gap.
I doubt Mir’s weight training had any negative effect on his skills training.
Of course it had a negative impact, Mir thought for some unknown reason that just because he could dead lift X amount of weight, that he was as strong as Carwin. You can’t train the kind of power that Carwin has. Mir should have just left his training regiment the way it was. Not saying the result would have been any different, but you never know.
Mir / JDS would be a debacle. Frank would never fight again, or eat solid foods. Even worse, he’d be exponentially more punch-drunk than he is now, and say the mo.st random of shit.
Mir / Gonzaga is a good matchup for Frank, but Gonzaga would have several recent losses if he gets stopped by Mir.
I like Mir / Nelson. I like Nelson in the fight, too.
"and say the most random of shit."
He does that every time he’s commentating on the WEC.
Sig bet record: 1-0.
Its not really random
There is a pretty standard rate of Torres per minute.
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 30, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
but I just don’t see the case for Mir getting another crack at the belt until he strings together multiple wins. seriously, lost 2 of his last 3, with both losses being for belts? How many kicks can you reasonably give someone? The fact that he was fighting at all for the interim was a joke. He beat Kongo, not taking anything away from Kongo here, but come on. I say make him string together min 3 wins, hell the two guys waiting for a crack have more wins separately then Frank has fights, and Saturday was Mirs second fight for a “title” in that same time span.
What's next for Mir ???
Counseling…
I’m sure his obsessive/compulsive disorder needs some positive mental direction.
He should be fine in all seriousness. He won’t see gold again because he doesn;t have the tools needed for today’s game. Wrestlers have always been dominate in MMA. Because MMA and wrestling are the single most directly related in comparison to each other. Until a superior athlete comes along to negate the strength and wrestling advantage, we will see a variation of the present in MMA.
Frank sadly, is not the “athlete” he likes to think of himself. He isn’t half the athlete as Lesnar or Cawrin on his best days. He never accelerated in any sport other than MMA, and only when MMA wasn’t offering it’s best competition. The Tim Sylvia’s, Mir’s, ect.. are all where they truly deserved to be in the pecking order currently. There is nothing wrong with knowing your limitations and finding alternatives to workaround. Sadly though, Mir is his own worst enemy in that regard. He doesn’t want to see himself for what he truly is. He’s still comparing his early success in todays world when the game has changed drastically on him. He isn’t a can.. but he isn’t the cream of the crop either. It will take years to close the gap he has, when he thinks it can be done in one.. If he truly sticks to it, he may close that gap within the next 3 years.. He can have success, but it wont be consistent until he acknowledges as much..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Some wrestling training maybe?
Mir is still going into MMA with the 2001 attitude of the striker/BJJ guy with no method of taking the fight down. You need to at the very least have some defensive wrestling…all his training videos are him talking about how much he’s working on his BJJ or his striking, um, hey buddy, how about training WRESTLING so the giant WRESTLERS you’re fighting don’t throw your ass around?
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