Did the UFC Bungle the Promotion of Georges St Pierre vs Dan Hardy at UFC 111?
by Nate Wilcox on Mar 29, 2010 6:49 PM EDT
in MMA News
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Zak Woods thinks so:
...the real culprit in the negative fan reaction--bad promoting.
It is hard to find fault in the UFC for trying to sell the fight as "Can Dan Hardy channel Matt Serra?". But Zuffa failed to educate their fans on what to expect. Trying to hoodwink them into thinking that Hardy stood a chance on the ground with a last minute jiu-jitsu session with Matt Serra was folly (Serra called the training a "solid" for Dana White). It created the false expectation of a brawl, which was certainly expedited by Hardy's mouth.
Going forward, WKR would argue that the worse thing Zuffa can do is to play up the "Serra did it, could generic welterweight do it too?" story. That creates a ripe media environment for fans to believe that St. Pierre is avoiding standing out of fear of being knocked out . Rather it is better to focus on how St. Pierre is so well rounded he can exploit whatever his opponent's weakness is.
Besides, Hardy was never a legitimate contender for St. Pierre. While some might bemoan that as bad matchmaking the reality at 170lbs. is that there are few challengers available and all are imperfect contenders.
I have to agree with Zak here. There was nothing whatsoever wrong with GSP's performance. He utterly dominated Hardy both standing and on the ground. He repeatedly worked for submissions and twice nearly finished the fight. It's true, as Luke Thomas pointed out, that he didn't inflict the kind of damaging ground and pound that we saw him unleash on Matt Serra and Jon Fitch. But I utterly reject the notion that GSP did anything wrong in utterly dominating a dangerous opponent for five rounds.
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I think trying to blame the promotion is going a little bit far. I mean, it wasn’t really that different from any other promo, aside from the fact that they had to play up Hardy a little more than usual. I think the UFC was hungry for some big numbers, and they really want to get GSP out there.
If you’re worried about fans sitting around thinking that GSP is afraid to stand with Hardy and that’s why he kept taking him down, then I don’t think you’ve thought it through enough, and maybe need to get out more. I mean that in the best possible way.
i agree
no matter how you educate the audience or market the fight, the fact remains that a great many people aren’t going to find this kind of fight particularly entertaining. especially for the full 25 minutes. we just have to accept that gsp, for all his groundbreaking mma awesomeness, is likely to win a lot, if not most of his fights from here on out in this fashion. we can get all defensive when someone suggests that serra taught gsp the perils of standup exchanges, but the fact is, he did, and this is the gsp we’re left with. awesome certainly, but predictable and a little boring.
If I were GSP...
…I’d totally go for Mandy Moore.
Oh, and also, I would have responded to the Hardy-Serra BJJ session by training stand up with Anderson Silva.
Hot pic...
…if I were a child molester. Dude, Zak – don’t you have anything a little more….uh..current?
pedobear ftw
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
by WeaponElDeem on Mar 30, 2010 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed that the promotion made fans expect more but...
the UFC had no choice because unless you were clueless about mma you knew that gsp was going to waste dan hardy.
Not really.
Over and over again, we heard that all Dan had to do was land one shot to win it all. GSP won’t stand with me, he knows he has to get it to the ground.
The amount of time spent talking about his ground game was minimal.
And
It would have been impressive if GSP did stand with him for one round to show he could do it.
If he really is a MIXED martial artist and knows the standing game, he should have been able to pull it off?
"One should always be cold minded and remember that a ridiculous incident may occur any time."
by At Least On Paper on Mar 29, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
If he really is a MIXED martial artist and knows the standing game, he should have been able to pull it off?
This is excessively stupid.
He’s a MIXED martial artists, that means that he has a skill set which allows him to win under the rules of mixed martial arts. He achieves this by being aware of all possibilities in a fight, and having the ability to negate certain factors in favor of others to make the overall fight more advantageous to him.
by Shaun32887 on Mar 29, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Fine
But don’t say he’s good at everything like other fighters are if he’s not.
"One should always be cold minded and remember that a ridiculous incident may occur any time."
by At Least On Paper on Mar 29, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
he's excellent at every aspect of the game
but that doesn’t mean he’s not going to encounter fighters who are markedly more dangerous standing than on the ground, and vice-versa. That’s the beauty of being well-rounded, you take your enemy where he is weakest.
Let’s say Hardy had a 40% of winning on the feet (which is generous IMO, given the way GSP’s takedown threat messes with strikers) and a 5% chance of winning on the ground — you don’t have to be very smart to realize where GSP needs to take the fight and keep it.
It’s called strategy and it’s never been popular.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Mar 30, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
And in the few brief moments that the fight stayed standing, GSP out-struck Hardy. It wasn’t like he desperately had to get the fight to the ground to win. He was likely to win if the fight NEVER hit the ground. He was just exponentially more likely to win from top position, so he made the smart decision rather than gambling with lower odds.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
which is incredibly smart...
GSP even said in the after fight interview on ESPN (and other interviews) that he looks at all fights like a mathamatical problem, and that he wants all the odds to be in his favor. He is a shark on the ground, why not take the fight there? A win is a win, and GSP is superb at making people play the game by his rules.
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
by WeaponElDeem on Mar 30, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think its about standing
as much as it is Finishing. Hardy should never have lasted 5 rounds in a fight he never had positional advantage for more than a split second…
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
REALLY? Positional Advantage is what it is, "Positional Advantege".
Its an advantage, not a guarantee you will finish a fight.
You still have to submit your opponent, GnP him, or whatever you can do from “positional advantage”.
GSP tried all the above. He was active through out the fight and Hardy didn’t make it easy for gsp once in he had “positional advantage” either. People may not give Hardy credit, but his strength helped him from being GnP’d and submitted while GSP had “positional advantage”. If Hardy was so ‘weak", why couldn’t GSP finish him off? Hardy’s physical strength couldn’t save him from losing the fight, but it saved him from being totally GnP’d into a pulp like GSP did to Alves.
Though he did take several blows to the body, did you notice Hardy’s face after the face? There was little sign he’d been in a fight.
"I'm Nobody's FanBoy" - higgledy-piggledy
by higgledy-piggledy on Mar 30, 2010 4:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I definitely noticed Hardy doing a good job of preventing the ground and pound by using wrist control or attacking St. Pierre’s posture, preventing him from dropping bombs. Then later in the fight Hardy was attacking the cut over St. Pierre’s eye whenever he could to disrupt GSP’s offence. The down side was that he left his arms out for a couple of submissions that almost finished him, but stifling the ground and pound was definitely his plan and he did it pretty well though at the sacrafice of any other offence or escapes.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
I disagree.
I think the ONLY reason Hardy lasted that long is because GSP didn’t GNP enough. I think he was going for a SUB, but (no disrespect) wasn’t sharp enough…
Personally I think it was an impressive display of offensive wrestling, and guard passing…. Maybe its a bit much to expect Georges to finish a fight, and maybe it isn’t. A lot of MMA fans say that Georges is the best P4P, and is the most well rounded fighter in the game, having equal or greater ability to the elite in the game ANYWHERE it goes… I say he’s the best fighter at dictating the avenue which the fight takes place, and easily implements his strategies the best to guarantee victory.
Some of you think that its complicit that you enjoy every GSP fight simply because you acknowledge that he is great, and possibly the greatest fighter in the game… Thats okay… You may also feel the need to defend him any time someone is unimpressed with his performance, but as good as he is, nobody is perfect. If the worst thing people can say about Georges is that he is at time a bit predictable and or grinding then he’s lucky.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I think you have a point with his the lack of GnP. I think if GSP had softened him up some more, like with a brutal GnP, he would have gotten the submission, perfect technique or not. But then, if the GnP was brutal enough, he may not have needed the submission. I think GSP was just submission hunting the way Liddell head hunts.
I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP
When did you hear me say GSP is great?
I was simply responding to your comment about “positional advantage”.
"I'm Nobody's FanBoy" - higgledy-piggledy
by higgledy-piggledy on Mar 30, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Which other fighters are you referring to? Was BJ Penn afraid of Diego Sanchez ground game? Why didn’t he take Sanchez down and dominate him there? Why did Anderson Silva avoid the ground game of Leites? Are their MMA games similarly incomplete?
the fight starts on the feet.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
ALL GSP HAD TO DO WAS WIN. BE IT BY KO, SUBMISSION, DECISION, DISQUALIFICATION, ATTRITION, ADULTERY...
[At Least On Paper] “It would have been impressive if GSP did stand with him for one round to show he could do it.
If he really is a MIXED martial artist and knows the standing game, he should have been able to pull it off?”
GSP did what he had to do to WIN. It’s similar to how one would deal with a break in at home:
It’s late at night, while upstairs in your bed, you are woken up by a noise you hear outside in your garden.
You look outside the window and you see a guy with a baseball bat trying to break into your living room.
You call the Police, but they’ll take several minutes to arrive.
You decide you are going to go downstairs and confront the intruder to protect your family upstairs. However, before confronting the intruder you want to be armed in case the intruder attacks you.
Seeing as you saw the intruder armed with a baseball bat, do you:
a) run to your garage and try and find a baseball bat.
or
b)pull out the gun you have underneath your bed.
I’m assuming most of us would take option ‘B’, the gun [unless you are Chuck Norris, and you don’t need weapons]
This maybe a sh*t analogy, but I think for those who keep saying, “why didn’t GSP stand up w/ Hardy, Why GSP did that, and it was a boring fight, and the fight wasn’t exciting” etc…
It would be exciting if I went to confront the intruder armed with only a baseball bat, we’d take swings at each other like it was spring training. It would be a lottery who comes out alive after the exchange. However, if I confront Mr Intruder with my sawn off double barrel versus his Louisville Slugger, there will be no question who will have the upper hand. [that is unless the intruder is Chuck Norris].
MMA gives you the choice to defeat your opponent with however you like. It’s just like that saying, “Don’t bring a knife to a Gun-Fight”.
Why am I going to risk fighting Mr Intruder with a baseball bat, when I know I can just scare him off, or kill him with my Gun, the weapon I have that will end the battle in my favour.
That’s enough clichés for today, as I think we get the point now.
"I'm Nobody's FanBoy" - higgledy-piggledy
by higgledy-piggledy on Mar 30, 2010 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I just wish GSP, with all his talent and physical gifts, had the killer instinct of a Kenny Florian or BJ Penn because it would make his dominance in the welterweight division so much more exciting. I feel like we have to respect his dominance during fights but it’s still kinda boring to watch. If you can take over the ground game like that and you have 25 minutes then you should be able to land enough strikes to finish it.
Barnett didn’t even attempt a submission on Yvel even though they were available. GSP at least attempted them and had two of them in deep.
He tried a kimura for damn near half the first round.
He tried the same submission in the 2nd round for like a good minute.
He also tried an armbar near the end of the 2nd, which failed miserably.
When those didn’t work, he did some more ground n pound, with Yvel tapping to strikes.
I haven’t seen the fight in a while, so you would know more than I do. All I remember is Barnett taking Yvel down, passing to mount, and doing GnP from mount.
by chrisbboy82 on Mar 30, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
bad analogy i think
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
by whardiek on Mar 29, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“I expected a dominant finish from Barnett because HE IS a top heavyweight going against a man in Yvel who doesn’t have his ground skills. Barnett certainly dominated but for whatever the reason, he struggled to put him away. It was my job to tell people watching the show what I thought about the fight.”
mickdawg
I would say its a bad analogy only because the competetion, Mighty Mo vs. Dan Hardy is the focus of my disagreement. I dont intend to insult you either, so, if I did, my fault.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
No worries.
Just wanted you to clarify.
And we’re talking about Gilbert Yvel, not Mighty Mo.
The difference in Yvel’s ground game and Hardy’s is neglible.
My fault
I thought you were talking about Barnett vs. Mighty Mo. My mistake. I would say Yvel does have a comparitive groundgame to Hardy. Mighty Mo isnt in the conversation though. I take it you agree with me on this?
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
one of the first times...
…where you saw a guy trying to stay in someone’s guard but having a difficult time doing so.
seemed to me like GSP was trying to heed greg jackson’s advice and beat hardy up from in his guard. but hardy kept trying to roll or throw up weak submission attempts that practically forced GSP into side control or to take hardy’s back.
i really don’t think GSP was trying to get into those “dominant” positions as much as he ended up there.
GSP’s performance in that regard was almost too perfect for his own good.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
GSP can't GNP to finish top guys nor can he submit them.....
…..he’s not taking the chance of getting “Serra’d” again so we are stuck with a dominant positional wrestling champ. It’s just going to be that way until GSP loses a step.
I think he meant since the Serra loss...
But it still doesnt make sense since he stopped serra afterwards with knees on the ground, used hella GnP against Fitch…and made poor BJ quit in between rounds because of it…
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
Boo...Even if that were the case,
He’s the best fighter that GSP has fought. Possibly ever. I’m just saying that it was incorrect that since the Serra thing he’s not used GnP effectively at all. Some matches he did, others he didn’t.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
...I'm a huge BJ fan
and that statement is a maybe at best. BJ looked bloated,slugish and weak
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
by WeaponElDeem on Mar 30, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
DON'T FORGET BJ PENN FOUGHT LYOTO MACHIDA AT LHW, ONLY LOSING BY DECISION.
BJ is tuff enough, I don’t think he lost too much of an advantage fighting GSP at WW. He’d be competitive in the WW division as it is now. This is a guy who fought He’s dominated the LW division and I’m pretty sure if GSP didn’t exist he’d be in the WW division having dominated the LWs, for a while now. But after the beating he received from GSP, he knew where to go – - – → back to LW, where he could at least dominate.
"I'm Nobody's FanBoy" - higgledy-piggledy
by higgledy-piggledy on Mar 30, 2010 5:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I am really disappointed with gsp's finishing ability.
“A good fighter would win all five rounds. A great fighter would finish him right now” – Bj Penn
Gsp did good, not great. His bjj is good,not great.
Gsp’s stand up is good, not great.
His wrestling is great, but his take Downs don’t cause damage Ala Jon Jones.
His gnp has been awesome, but his last 3 out of four didn’t get the stoppage.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 7:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
whatever. he was a fraction of an inch away from ripping off dan hardy’s arm twice. sometimes you get the stoppage, sometimes you don’t.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
look i am tryin to be a hater
I am not mad at George. ….. I am just disappointed.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 7:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I am dissapointed too but;
I dont feel as though I wasted my money on the fights. I feel like I got my moneys worth
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
george is still the best ww until someone beats him.
I just wanna see a champ win. Not just “not lose”.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 8:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Or maybe you need to accept MMA as it is. Because if a 5 round domination isn’t winning, I’m out of arguments. I’m okay with saying it wasn’t exciting or whatever, but this is getting out of hands, so much I will let you guys get a grip and come back tomorrow.
I'm a lover not a fighter
TELL THEM! 50-43, 50-44, 50-45 THAT WAS THE SCORECARD
I think some fans & new-to-mma viewers need a MMA 101 class or some kind of MMA appreciation video demonstration. Kind of like how a TV network will explain the rules and scoring to Curling [exactly, never heard of it].
“accept MMA as it is”, and also learn what the sport is about so you can appreciate what is going on in the octagon. GSP won every round. The fight had everything; stand-up stricking [arguably not enough], takedowns [too much for some peoples taste], boxing, leg kicks, wrestling, BJJ submission attempts…
"I'm Nobody's FanBoy" - higgledy-piggledy
by higgledy-piggledy on Mar 30, 2010 5:27 AM EDT up reply actions
ummm no
It was poor technique or it would have snapped. Hardy didn’t defend either one properly.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 8:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Most guys are a bit hesitant to actually snap another mans arm
See Hughes/Gracie. Matt said that he simply didn’t want to break Royce’s arm, and watching him straight up let go of that americana, I believe it.
GSP seems like a nice guy, and he knew he would win. It’s not out of rational thought to think that he simply didn’t want to break Dan’s arm.
That's pretty much what I assumed from first seeing it...
Greg Jackson seemed like he was telling him he was doing something wrong in the locker room though, but he also, if i remember correctly, said something like “this isn’t a game, it’s a fight; you break his arm.”
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
Right
Not saying I condone it, but it’s definitely what it seems like.
That’s why chokes are nice. With GSP’s ability to basically move to mount at will, he might benefit from practicing some arm triangle chokes.
Bring Schafer in to training for a little while.
I tend to agree with most of this. The thing with GSP is he has so few holes that you can exploit. His stand up is good enough that even against great strikers he can hold his own…….but the ever present threat of a takedown twists things in his favour. His defensive BJJ and wrestling coupled with his positional dominance make him ridiculously hard to submit.
I’m not overly disappointed with his finishing ability. I was more impressed with Hardy’s ability to avoid submissions. That was clearly GSPs tactic and he executed in really well with all the guard passes and submission attempts. Another 1 or 2 decisions in sequence and I might change my tune.
hardy was caught
George didn’t pull the trigger.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 8:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe, but Ive heard people, included GSP and his trainers blame poor technique as the reason he couldnt finish.
yeah!!
That’s what I am saying. The subs were there and he didn’t complete them. It wasn’t Hardy’s defence. It was Georges deficiencys that kept him from getting the stoppage.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 8:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Black belts make mistakes the same as everybody else, and just because a submission is “common” or easy to learn doesn’t mean it’s easy to master.
In the post-fight interview Georges himself admitted that he was performing the technique incorrectly and trying to rely too much on his power to finish the submissions, and that his trainers showed him after the fight the mistakes he was making which prevented him from getting the finish.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz
by CasualMMAFan on Mar 29, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with your first sentence, but making mistakes is different than not knowing how to properly perform it.
Just shows that GSP’s black belt is more due to his wrestling skills than his actual mastery of submission techniques.
Ugh, gross.
BJJ is NOT about the submissions. That’s the last thing you worry about. GSP’s ability to pass guard and dominate positionally is incredibly high level BJJ. Position before submission, people!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
OK, so he’s great at positioning, and average at submissions. Got it.
For some dumb reason, I just assumed you should know how to properly apply an armbar to be a blackbelt.
WTH am I thinking.
Facepalm
Just shows that GSP’s black belt is more due to his wrestling skills than his actual mastery of submission techniques.
Do they give black belts in wrestling now?
"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf**ker" - Jules Winnfield
by WeaponElDeem on Mar 30, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Facepalm?
Pay attention, son.
pdl said “position before submission, people!”
I say , how can you be a black belt when you can’t even properly apply an armbar and it’s variations?
So obviously, his blackbelt ain’t because he’s some submission expert.
It’s because he’s good at positioning and passing, which are likely from his wrestling skills.
Got it?
Making a mistake and not knowing how to do it are two completely different things. As for that Armbar… most fighters would have tapped from that. It was deep, the strength GSP has is damaging, but Hardy is a tough, tough dude. That mistake allowed him to get out of it, but that armbar put Hardy in a world of hurt.
I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP
“Making a mistake and not knowing how to do it are two completely different things”….no shit.
I just said that a few comments above.
What was your point of saying that? Are you saying that GSP knew how to properly apply it? Obviously he didn’t, cuz his coaches said he did it wrong.
Most fighters would’ve tapped from that? True.
But first of all, a much better ground fighter would not likely be caught in that submission in the first place.
Secondly, a better ground fighter would’ve probably escaped the arm bar anyways. It wasn’t applied properly.
Hardy is tough, I won’t dispute that.
What was your point of saying that? Are you saying that GSP knew how to properly apply it? Obviously he didn’t, cuz his coaches said he did it wrong.
I assume if he has a black belt, he would know how to properly apply it. It just seems silly to me that someone would get a black belt without knowing how to apply that submission properly. Either GSP knows and had a brain fart during the match, or he should take his black belt and ask for a refund.
I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP
i agree
Mick I’m with you. In the gym I see guys that move faster in the rankings because of their wrestling background. This isnt to disparrage his teacher, I simply agree with the premise.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
that picture of gsp at the top of the article...... that kimura is horrible.
He should have been leaning back not forward. Making an L with Hardy’s arm. Then he wouldn’t have needed a tap. the ref would have stoped it when Hardy’s shoulder ripped apart.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 7:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
this will be interesting
GSP is going to be getting something he certainty isn’t used to, a whole bunch of criticism.
I wonder how he’ll react.
I think his next opponent should be afraid.
Who in his right mind will give him more shit for this fight? Gsp apologized, instead of celebrating he admitted his mistakes. Promised to get better for the next fight.
Who dominates a man for 5 rounds and does that? Criticisms? C’mon…This won’t be interesting, this will be extremely annoying.
I'm a lover not a fighter
by spectaa on Mar 29, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hey
I’m not saying the criticism will be rational, or that it will even last that long.
But when GSP thinks about this fight, it is one of the things he’ll remember, and that is unusual for him.
The KO quota was more than exceded by Mir/Carwin.
UFC balances out cards well. They paired up a stand up war (Mir/Carwin) with a takedown technical clinic by GSP.
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 29, 2010 7:56 PM EDT reply actions
UFC 111 was entertaining. "There's no pleasing you."
OFFICIAL RESULTS
Georges St-Pierre def. Dan Hardy via unanimous decision (50-43, 50-44, 50-45)
Shane Carwin def. Frank Mir via knockout (punches) – Round 1, 3:48
Kurt Pellegrino def. Fabricio Camoes via submission (rear-naked choke) – Round 2, 4:20
Jon Fitch def. Ben Saunders via unanimous decision (30-27, 30-27, 30-27)
Jim Miller def. Mark Bocek via unanimous decision (29-28, 29-28, 29-28)
PRELIMINARY CARD RESULTS
Nate Diaz def. Rory Markham via TKO (strikes) – Round 1, 2:47
Ricardo Almeida def. Matt Brown via submission (rear-naked choke) – Round 2, 3:30
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 29, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
i loved this card!!!
Take away the Fitch fight and I really loved every fight. George always says he wants to be remembered as the best ever…. maybe he should start finishing people. ( that goes double for purple belts)
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 8:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i’ve been a big defender of GSP’s performance. That being said. Going back and rewatching the Trigg, Penn (II), and Miller fights really do make you a little disappointed. I’m not critical of his performance but a less skilled GSP beat the everloving shit out of Miller on the ground. Miller was light years more dangerous than Penn on the show.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 29, 2010 7:58 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, just had to make sure I didn’t “miss” a BJ Penn version of Bully Breakdown.
I'm a lover not a fighter
i think its hard to miss that episode
by Austin Martin on Mar 29, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
damnit, that was supposed to have a diego pic
by Austin Martin on Mar 29, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
jesus. yes it was. Was finishing up dinner for the wife when i was typing that
“Miller was light years more dangerous than Hardy on the ground”
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 29, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i am siding with Mr. Brookhouse on this one.
Gsp. ……. WTF? ???
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 8:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We all expected the GSP fight to play out like it did.
The only thing people expected was a finish. I dont think anyone thought GSP was gonna stand toe to toe. UFC cant be held accountable for that.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
I thought he was gonna GnP the mess outta him by round 3, but that was not his intentions.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
The fact that GSP didn’t fiinsh Hardy, Alves or Fitch is more a credit to the toughness of those men rather than GSP’s perceived lack of finishing ability. Aside from Hardy, weren’t the betting lines much closer with GSP vs Penn / Alves / Fitch than with Silva vs Cote / Leites or Penn vs Sanchez / Florian? I don’t know what the exact lines were, but I feel that in GSP’s last 4 fights he was matched up against men that had a better shot at beating him than some of the contenders the other UFC champs went up against.
In the end, all your friends and family let you down and you die in your own arms, so who cares?
i will give him a pass on fitch.
He should have subbed the kick boxers. Bottom line.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 8:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you should talk to the guy
in the Akiyama thread who was calling me a Dana White nuthugger.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
GSP, we are not impressed with your per-form-ance.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 29, 2010 8:11 PM EDT reply actions
I hope to hell he doesn't...I'm still on the "beat Renzo and retire" mindset.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
Pound for pound slippage
While GSP dominated the fight on the ground, his lack of finishing ability is starting to affect his pound for pound ranking. In my opinion you have to finish people to be considered the best pound for pound fighter. The other three Fedor, Silva and Penn all finish fights. Georges can’t seem to get it done lately. He slips a bit.
by MusicCityBeatdown on Mar 29, 2010 8:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
He didn't finish him.
That’s something wrong, I’d say.
Decisions are still decisions.
"One should always be cold minded and remember that a ridiculous incident may occur any time."
by At Least On Paper on Mar 29, 2010 8:50 PM EDT reply actions
GSP
I am not impressed. The UFC and athletic commission needs to stop counting take downs like a knock down. In Japanese promos you are yellow carded for no action on the ground and the takedowns do not have as much merit UNLESS you take down to finish by gnp or submission. Aside from the half ass sub attempts GSP NEVER tried to finish that fight. That was as entertaining as Anderson Silva and Thales Leites. Bottom line—- dont shoot the take down unless you plan on doing something down there aside from the dry hump… That goes to you to FITCH..
Even in Japanese promos that would still be the easiest victory to decide...
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
YEAH!!!
Where the hell did Fitch go? FIIIIIIITCH!!! Did you hear gdflsh!!! WHERE THE HELL IS HE?? We gotta sit him down and set his shit straight. I got your back on this one gdflsh. You sit them down and set them STRAIGHT and I’ll stand behind you with my arms folded ready to take action if they take offense. I’m tired of this taking down shit while doing NOTHING!!! Fitch landed more ORGASMS then ELBOWS!!!?? WTFFFFF?!!!
What the Hell could he possibly be doing this is serious!!? Seriously, if he was here gdflsh and I would set him straight. And where the F___K di dthe frog go???!!! That goes to you too!!!
Yeah, that felt good.
are you kidding me?
Those sub attempts were so serious they should’ve resulted in 10-8 rounds. Half-ass? GSP might have made a technical mistake that let a game guy like Hardy find a way to escape, but that doesn’t make GSP’s sub attempts half-ass.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Mar 30, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Most other fighters tap to the first round armbar and/or the fourth round kimura, technical mistakes or no. They were deep and GSP’s power and strength in applying them isn’t questioned. It’s a credit to Hardy that he didn’t tap more than a knock on GSP.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
In a Japanese promotion Hardy would receive 10 yellow cards for inactivity.
by dancingChicken on Mar 30, 2010 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions
It is what it is...
Hardy was tough but didn’t have the ground skills to hang with GSP. This is MMA and I wasn’t fooled into thinking that GSP wouldn’t dominate Hardy on the ground or that it would be a stand-up war. I’m kind of getting sick of every time that a fight doesn’t go according to how some people think it should then there’s people complaining. There will always be people complaining about something no matter what because we pick apart the fights so much now.
Everyone says that Jon Fitch is boring and blah blah blah but why should he fight any other way if it’s obviously working. If he can dominate and muscle people around then he should do it.
I have to say that I was somewhat surprised that GSP didn’t try to inflict more damage from the top but it seemed like he was doing what his corner was asking him to.
Mir-Carwin didn't go the way I wanted and I'd love to complain...
But that sure as hell ain’t gonna make Mir decide to start defending now.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
Besides, Hardy was never a legitimate contender for St. Pierre. While some might bemoan that as bad matchmaking the reality at 170lbs. is that there are few challengers available and all are imperfect contenders.
I agree about imperfect contenders…but why then is Daley or Saunders a better contender than Koscheck or Fitch, who are required to fight each other before being contenders. (based on Dana’s comments that if Daley or Saunders wins then they are in line for a shitle tot but no such commitment about Kos or Fitch)
I utterly agree with everything you utterly said
Utterly.
by ufc4 on Mar 29, 2010 9:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
What is Woods even talking about?
I’m not sure I understand Woods’ point. Bad promotion stems from not getting enough eyes to watch your product, and as a subset, bad matchmaking. Zuffa can only matchup whoever is legit ‘at the time’: Fitch and Alves, the best contenders, have had their shot. Daley wasn’t on the radar until recently, and likewise for Koscheck, who again, has had his shot in a technical sense*. The only reason fans had a negative reaction to the fight is because Hardy proved to be un-submittable, otherwise, that fight ends in the first round against anyone else.
MMA fans can’t contextualize fights for shit. It’s why everyone praises Nate Diaz’ performance against Markham, even though it’s Markham, not Hardy, that is “generic”. I wouldn’t be shocked if Hardy ends up being a force in the division in the same way that Florian was after the Sherk fight, which people weren’t able to see because rather than give Sherk credit, it was easier to discredit Florian as a legit challenger. Sadly, I’d probably get laughed at for picking Hardy over someone like Nick Diaz, who fans actively clamor for to fight GSP as if Diaz has beaten anyone of worth at 170 over the past several years.
Hardy’s a good fighter, above “generic” but well below great who happened to fight the welterweight GOAT. “Negative fan reaction” is sadly, par for the course when it comes to MMA, and should be taken with a grain of salt on most occasions. Hardy displayed the type of resolve against one sided domination guys like Fitch and Alves did, so ultimately, Hardy has nothing to be ashamed of, nor does Zuffa.
The only shame here belongs to the MMA fanbase.
*I forgot to mention Paulo Thiago, but it’s clear by now that he won’t get a shot until he wins his fight against Mothra.
by David Castillo on Mar 29, 2010 9:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Honestly I couldn’t rec this comment enough, i’m sorry but it seems mma writers articles become worse by the day there were so many things wrong with that piece that it would take me an hour to post them all.
so write better ones
we’re all just fans here. Let’s see what you got.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Mar 30, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, really. Do you HAVE to make out like both guys are great?
They should use time to talk up GSP more and his past wins than to focus on someone like Hardy.
let me put on my Fedor nuthugging gloves for this one
the difference between a guy like GSP and a guy like Fedor is that it just doesnt seem that GSP gets off on the taste of the challenge. Whereas Fedor will fuck with whatever you supposedly do better than him (striking with Cro Cop, guard play with Nog), GSP is content to dominate you with his best asset every time. Thats certainly no fault in the least, but people shouldnt be shocked when the people get a hard-on for Fedor and just a half-chub for GSP
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Mar 30, 2010 2:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Meh. I don’t fault people for not liking GSP. If you don’t like a fighter, you don’t like a fighter. I like GSP, but I don’t like Fedor. I appreciate Fedor’s abilities, and he is truly one of the greats, if the the greatest, but I just can’t help hoping he’d lose every time he fights. Maybe it’s the M1 thing that gets my goat, and not Fedor himself…
I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP
no, there is fault. GSP went for submissions, but having seen him BATTER alves and fitch, we as fans can expect him to batter Hardy. a guy that NO ONE WAS SAYING had a legit ground game. period. GSP has a WORLD CLASS PROGRAM TO PREPARE HIm.
Hardy didn’t even know where his camp was going to be 3 f’ing weeks out from the fight when he rolled up to America. are you f’ing serious? and hardy barely looked like he’d been in a fight.
P4P? Please. Spare me the talk when he’s taking on a guy that no one says has a chance 5 rounds and the guy barely looks like he was in a fight.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Mar 30, 2010 10:43 AM EDT reply actions
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