Dana White and the Fans Want Jon Fitch vs Josh Koscheck
by Nate Wilcox on Mar 29, 2010 2:34 PM EDT
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There was a very telling exchange between Dana White and the #2 welterweight in the USAT/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings Jon Fitch at the press conference after UFC 111:
Fitch: There's nothing more important to me right now than fighting for a title. ... I want a title shot.
White: Yeah, he's in the mix, there's no doubt. He's in the mix. There's a couple of guys at the top of the (welter)weight division. Maybe we do him and Koscheck for the No. 1 spot.Q:Would you be open to that, Jon?
Fitch: No, I wouldn't be open to that.
White: He doesn't want the title shot that bad then. (chuckles)
Fitch: If that fight were to happen, it would happen in our gym, with the doors closed.
White(sarcastically): That fight would make a lot of money.
Fitch and Koscheck are training partners at the American Kickboxing Academy. They have long refused to fight each other or teammate Mike Swick -- Gal's Guide calls it their "Bros Before Hoes Policy". This wouldn't really be that big a deal except that the two of them have hung around the top tier of the UFC welterweight division for so long. Fortunately Koscheck's losses Paulo Thiago and Thiago Alves have opened up some space in the division's stratosphere, but Fitch has been perfect other than against GSP.
Despite this, Fitch thinks that his teammate has already done enough to have been fighting for the title at UFC 111 and shouldn't have to get past Paul Daley at UFC 113, per MMA Weekly:
"It's kind of disrespectful to a lot of the other fighters in the weight class that got passed by (by Dan Hardy). I think Koscheck should be fighting for the title right now. I think him and GSP should have been fighting at UFC 111."
One has to wonder whether Fitch and Koscheck would have been bitching so much if their teammate Mike Swick had beaten Dan Hardy in their title eliminator fight at UFC 105.
MMA Weekly makes a very balanced argument:
The fighters, they're camps and representation, and the promoters are going to have to decide how far to push the issue and what is the proper direction in each case as it arises.
If the title is that lucrative, or that important, the fighters will fight. If those considerations aren't as important, they won't.
It's a complex issue that gets very simple in the end, but it's sure to grab a lot of attention along the way.
Sergio Non makes the case against AKA:
A reluctance to fight training partners makes sense. There's nothing enjoyable about it for the participants. AKA fighters have become particularly tired of hearing about it; lately they've tried to impose a "no questions about teammates vs. teammates" condition before agreeing to one-on-one interviews.
But White has the right of it: Dodging teammates apparently means more than fighting for a title in this case. If a pair of top-four fighters refuse to elevate themselves by fighting each other, UFC might not feel obliged to elevate them either of them to a title shot.
AKA's athletes like to point out that they can face many competitors other than teammates. It also goes the other way - UFC has other options for contenders that don't involve unbreakable bonds of camaraderie. By turning each other down, Fitch, Koscheck and Swick could unintentionally relegate themselves to gatekeeper status.
Fitch did nothing to help his cause Saturday by winning another grinding ugly fight via decision against the unranked Ben Saunders. The guy has been a thorn in Dana White's side for a long time because he's so good but dreadfully unpopular with fans.
Something tells me that Josh Koscheck will need to beat Paul Daley in spectacular fashion to get a title shot now that Fitch has turned this into a pissing match between AKA and Dana White. We all remember how their last squabble went when Jon Fitch briefly refused to sign over rights to his video game likeness. AKA quickly folded after the UFC briefly cut Fitch. Fitch remained in the doghouse for a long time.
Normally I tend to take the side of the fighters in disputes with management, but not this time. I'd love to see Fitch vs Koscheck. Let's make it happen Dana.
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Koscheck always seemed to be more interested in money
I think he’d take that Fitch fight in a heartbeat. He wants money and fame and if Zuffa says that’s the way to get it, I don’t think he’d pass up the shot. I think it’s more Fitch/Swick. Swick the most because he knows he can’t beat either Fitch or Koscheck and I think that Koscheck has the wrestling to prevent Fitch’s blanket style.
The policy should be just that…if you pass up the fight then neither of you get the shot.
twitter.com/thisredengine
Kid Nate >
Fitch’s win was ugly blanket style ? GSP’s was domnant ? Come on Kid you can’t have it both ways! Fitch put more of a beating on Saunders than GSP put on Hardy. It was the two WW doing what they do best! Fitch will beat Kos.
Then you end up with a number one contender that got trashed by a Strikeforce champ.
That isn’t the best situation for the UFC either.
Daley is not the number 1 contender even if he wins
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
If not him than who?
Dana obviously doesn’t want Fitch back in there, so count him out.
Alves is on the shelf and not far enough removed from getting dominated.
Paulo Thiago is a posibility if he beats Kampmann, but not likely IMO.
Unless Shields beats Hendo and Dana signs him, there aren’t too many other options.
Who will it be if not the winner of Koscheck / Daley
Really?
Beating the number 8, 12, and 4 WWs (ranked at time of fight) in a row isn’t enough for a title shot? Whatever, dooner.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Fitch
I know but stay with me on this one.
Fitch beat Thiago who beat Kos.
Daley beat Hazlett and Kampman and that is it right i’m not forgetting anybody?
The whole Fitch Alves rematch would be a great fight but doesn’t make sense right now, since Alves just got waxed by GSP
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Daley beat Hazlett and Kampman and that is it right i’m not forgetting anybody?
If he beat Koscheck… he will have beaten Koscheck (ranked # 4 . I think that was the whole premis of this conversation.
I can't fault your logic
I just think Fitch has earned it and I do think Fitch has a better chance than anyone else except mabye Kos.
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Fitch has done more to earn a title shot than anybody, but Dana clearly doesn't want to put that fight together.
Sure, Fitch has elite wrestling ability, but it was nowhere near good enough to threaten GSP in their first fight. Has it improved that much? How about his striking? Will he avoid getting beat down than almost anybody I can remember? I’m not confident.
For what it is worth, I think Koscheck faired a little better in his first fight with GSP than Fitch did. Plus Koscheck is a legitimate threat on the feet. Since his first fight with GSP, Kos has done a lot of work on his stand up and hasknocked a few people silly.
Wrestling wise, Kos and Fitch are about a wash, at least Kos is a threat on the feet though.
Dana white clearly doesn't want a GSP / Fitch rematch.
I wouldn’t mind seeing that fight again though. It would be a fight where GSP would be safer on the feet and would probably stick to stand up fighting.
by truck on Mar 29, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Definatly be a more entertaining fight
Seeing GSP against a guy that can’t match him on the mat though is getting a little redundant. I would put Fitch up next. And If Daley beats Kos in a method that could translate to a fight with GSP then I would consider it. Give him the old Frankie Edgar treatment
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Fitch simply isn't going to happen.
Dana said as much in the press conference. That is what this whole conversation is about.
Dana White about Jon Fitch:
He doesn’t want the title shot that bad then. (chuckles)
Yeah I know
I guess this is where me and Fitch get the Life’s not fair speech
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Tell you what though
After Shields gets beat by Hendo have he and Fitch fight for a #1 spot if Fitch wins denying him another shot would be criminal. And it’s a fight Fitch could win and it prevents seeing Shields lay and pray on some striker or whoever they give him for a warm up fight
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Shields has had 1 boring fight in his entire career and now he’s prone to lay ’n pray? Are you for real?
Just going from what I've seen.
You’re right he has quite a few finishes in his last 10 fights or so. I just was never that high on miller and then when they fought I thought shields almost got tapped and then just laid on him and didn’t try to really advance it left a bad taste in my mouth about the guy. But I was wrong he isn’t just a lay and pray guy
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems to me like people have only seen one Sheilds fight.
I mean how many other boring grapplers finish 8 fights in a row? Especially with none making it past the second round…
and I havn't seen it but what about the Okami Fight
it looks to have snooze fest written all over it.
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Go watch the fight
I’m not going to tell you what you’re opinion should be. But I would appreciate that people like you who have admittedly only seen him fight once, above his natural weightclass no less, at least take the time to do a little research before branding him a boring lay ’n pray artist.
I said you were right damn,
But hey you seem to know what you’re talking about and I don’t have anyway of watching the fight. My work computer will not You Tube. So how did he beat Okami anyway I didnt even know that fight happened?
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the current texture of the UFC WW division makes the AKA teammate vs teammate fights more important than the Jackson situation in 205.
There is a dominant champion who has beaten most of the top contenders. If you want to get another shot at him, you’re going to have to beat another top fighter. If you are buddies with other top fighters and you won’t fight them to get your title shot, you give up your chance to whine when one or both of you get passed over for someone new.
Yep, when you get down to it two of the top contenders in the division refuse to fight each other and that just isn’t right. This isn’t a frat party it’s professional prize fighting and fighting other top contenders is their job. If they don’t want to fight each other then they should do what other training camps in the situation do, one leaves the division for a different weight class so it’s not an issue. I mean what would happen if Koscheck did happen to beat GSP and then Fitch was the number one contender(or the other way around)? If they both stay at the top of the division and they are both hunting the belt then a fight between the two is eventually inevitable. Either get it on or one of them should get out of the weight class.
If fighters don’t want to fight, they won’t fight. It’s their right to refuse to fight another teammate, as much as that sucks. I’m with Fitch and Kos on this, we also can’t pretend in the event that they are forced to fight one another, that they’d put 100% into the fight.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
by Orcus on Mar 29, 2010 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Of course they have the right to refuse the fight, but they shouldn’t complain when the UFC tells them to “go jump in a lake” when they demand title shots.
by PM23 on Mar 29, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Similarly when Koscheck and Fitch keep beating every other top contender, people shouldn’t complain about the division being “cleaned out” when neither one of them gets another shot at GSP. Technically Koscheck has never actually gotten a title shot. If Koscheck can beat Paul Daley and say, Paulo Thiago in a rematch, I think he deserves a title shot, Fitch or not (and honestly after Saturday I don’t really want to see Fitch in another title match for a long time anyway).
by Chromium on Mar 29, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s also Dana’s right to refuse them title shots, refuse the contract renewals, and to never let them fight in the UFC.
There’s no right or wrong here. It’s only who has the last say, and that’s Dana.
I agree
I can see both sides for this, but ultimately I just don’t like the idea of forcing teammates to fight, but I agree 100% that the UFC has the right to refuse them title shots as well.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
I agree.
It isn’t an easy situation, especially since they all share the same gym on a full time basis. If they were to fight eachother, somebody would have to leave and train elsewhere. Coaches and training would be divided. How do you know that nobody is giving away any of the game plan. It can create a mess.
by truck on Mar 29, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In the end, it makes absolutely no sense for two fighters both wanting to be champion in the same division to never fight each other.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
That doesnt make a difference.
what if KOS is champ? Swick and Fitch are just going to twiddle their thumbs on the sidelines fighting people they already have, in a bout that would not put either of them closer to a title shot because they won’t fight the champ because its someone from their gym? Rediculous. You are professional fighters. This is your job, and you answer to your boss, just like everybody else.
by Opposites Attack on Mar 29, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
they would either fight other people, or get cut, or put on the undercards. It’s up to the UFC to decide, if they don’t want to fight each other then they should face the consequences, but they can’t be forced to fight each other.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
Exactly.
Thats my point. of course they cannot be forced. but if they do not do what they are told by the boss, and do not do what the fans want to see, then they are not doing their job and should be fired. which is a shame because all 3 are good, entertaining fighters, and as much as I hate KOS as a person, he is a great athlete.
by Opposites Attack on Mar 29, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m kind of torn on this. I’d hate to have to fight one of the guys I train with but as a fan I would really like to see this fight.
Why not, it’s all about competition and sportsmanship. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best, no matter who that is. What happens if ione of them is the champ? the other can’t get a title shot until that one is beaten, sounds like they’re being arrogant and bullheaded.
by stinkinburrows on Mar 29, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm surprised none of them has sought out another camp yet.
How do Koscheck and Swick feel about being the second and third best 70ers in their camp, respectively? And how do they expect to get good enough to beat Fitch, let alone GSP, when they’re contributing to Fitch getting better all the time?
Kos and Swick need to let go of the security blanket and do what’s best for their careers. Go to Xtreme Couture. Go to Jackson’s. Hell, if they don’t want to leave the area, go to Cesar Gracie. Plenty of good guys approximating their weight class there, and they’re all outside the UFC, so no conflict.
Where is these guys’ competitive spirit?
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Mar 29, 2010 2:30 PM EDT reply actions
The only fight Im interested in seeing is Koschek vs GSP. The koschek v fitch fight is only a negotiating tactic by Dana.
by mmalogic on Mar 29, 2010 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
love the gif!
How is that like Goulet? That dude goes out cold in a drafty room - Blackout612
by Well Read Idiot on Mar 29, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no strong opinion either way as both sides are right. I think the right thing would be that Dana should avoid fighting training partners if he can, but if that is unavoidable, then Dana should basically do what he needs to do (tell them that if they want a title fight they need to either a) Fight eachother, or b) Go to strikeforce where they’ll be a legacy titleholder in a matter of 3 fights that no one cares about.
If this is their "bros before hoes" policy,
then does that make us, the fans, the hoes?
Man, those guys sure now how to please the fans…
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
by jemaleddin on Mar 29, 2010 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
See, now I’m thinkin’: maybe it means you’re the evil man. And I’m the righteous man. And Mr. 9mm here, he’s the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could mean you’re the righteous man and I’m the shepherd and it’s the world that’s evil and selfish. And I’d like that. But that shit ain’t the truth. The truth is you’re the weak. And I’m the tyranny of evil men. But I’m tryin’, Ringo. I’m tryin’ real hard to be the shepherd.
by argyle on Mar 29, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Fighters change up camps all the time
If this fight ever happened they would have to train out of a new camp. I’d like to see Fitch train with a new camp. His top control is one of the best. I think he needs to implement more of a submission/GnP game. Maybe roll with the guys at team Black House. He could use the striking and submission help immensely.
Look at it this way. At least it isn't Rowdy Roddy Piper having success in the HW division.
He doesn't seem like the kind of fighter that gets a Blackhouse invite...
scratches chin For some reason it doesn’t seem like a good fit.
it's all in the name, no?
How is that like Goulet? That dude goes out cold in a drafty room - Blackout612
by Well Read Idiot on Mar 29, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
ummmm, no.
brazilian =/= black. who at blackhouse besides Anderson is of african descent? plus, they’ve got Chase Gormley (white) and Mark Munoz (filipino).
that being said. Fitch doesn’t fit
Go back far enough, we’re all from Africa…do the evolution!
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 29, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a good fit…. Really? If he really want to finish fights he needs to use his top control to look for subs. Plus BH has the games most prominent strikers. Seems like a perfect fit to get the finishes his career is lacking. I’m sure they would welcome and benefit from his wrestling pedigree.
Look at it this way. At least it isn't Rowdy Roddy Piper having success in the HW division.
It isn't about what he wants. Blackhouse is invite only.
They have elite wrestlers, elite BJJ players and elite wrestlers.
They take in a very select few and he just doesn’t seem like their type to me…
Fighters change camps when they're unsuccessful
Other fighters have camps and training partners that they’ve been with their entire careers and go on to have one of the best win records in UFC history
by George Lucas on Mar 29, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
like being unsuccessful at finishing people and convincing matchmakers to award him a title shot for giving them an interesting/eterntaining fight in return?
Look at it this way. At least it isn't Rowdy Roddy Piper having success in the HW division.
If they don’t wanna fight, they shouldn’t fight. As a fan I wouldn’t wanna see a glorified sparring match either so I don’t think it shouldn’t happen. Their title hpes however will have to wait until they cannot be denied.
If one teamate vs. teamate fight happens it opens up the flood gates. If the fight happens teamate vs teamate fights will be more common.
They should become more common.
While I understand the practicalities of being a pro fighter dictate that you be part of a team in terms of a training camp, the reality is, from a sporting aspect it is an individual sport and for the sport to be satisfied sometimes teammates have to fight teammates.
Yes, and if it happens, it should happen on the fighters’ terms, not based on the whims of one man as a negotiating tactic.
It’s not just a negotiating traffic though. If Kos and Fitch are going to chirp about who should or shouldn’t be fighting GSP then they should be forced to be accountable to their own title aspirations.
I’m sure Dana is willing to grease the wheels with some money but he’s not going to let these guys sort it out at their gym behind closed doors.
We can only hope. If NFL players from opposing teams can be great friends and still smash each other on the field, then mixed martial artists should be able to do the same. We may not see subs cranked to break limbs or superfluous GnP after the fight is clearly over, but putting a sportsmanlike hurt on a teammate is nothing new. It happens all the time in training—just open the gym doors and let the fans see it.
In my mind
Koscheck doesn’t deserve a title shot before Fitch anyway – losses to the two Thiagos put him behind Fitch as far as contendership goes.
Get rid of the ramp!
by ihateemo on Mar 29, 2010 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
While this is true, I think Kos presents a much more intriguing challenge to GSP than Fitch does at this point. I would expect to see Fitch get torn apart on the feet again against GSP. Kos, on the other hand, still has fight-ending power and more explosive takedowns. It may not be fair, but as a fan I’m way beyond seeing the most “deserving” fighters get the shot; I want to see the best matchup.
wrestlers are boring! !!!!
Kos is way better IMHO. It least I am awake at the ends of his fights.
If no damage is done and there are no subs ,how exactly is it still called a fight?
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 2:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
"If no damage is done and there are no subs "
What does this have to do with Koscheck or Fitch?
by George Lucas on Mar 29, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
you have seen jon fitch fight right?
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 4:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes and he beat the shit out of Ben Saunders for 15 straight minutes just last weekend so I’m guessing you haven’t.
by George Lucas on Mar 29, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
sorry bud
I like taps, snaps and naps. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 5:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Taps snaps and naps
that’s awesome I totally just stole that.
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
and btw
Jar jar binx was a horrible idea. You really screwed the pooch on that one.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 5:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Jar-Jar is what happens when Lucas gets too much control. The best of the films is Empire, and it’s the one he had the least input on. I can’t stand the films – too cheesy. No amount of special effects will improve the script.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 29, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, hey, star wars jokes
never heard one of those before.
thanks for continuing the proud Bloody Elbow tradition of combining fresh and insightful commentary with razor sharp wit.
by George Lucas on Mar 29, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You picked the name…
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 29, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I probably should have gone by something like fightrd00d420 to lend my opinions a little more gravity.
by George Lucas on Mar 30, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d go to the judge and change that shit. It’s like Michael Bolton in Office Space – you don’t want the burden of association.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 30, 2010 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
“Why should I change my name when he’s the one that sucks?”
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Mar 30, 2010 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
…You win this round…
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 30, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
To me, this is a non-issue...
Daley will defeat Koscheck via KO. This will setup a GSP-Daley fight and Fitch will be undoubtedly sitting pretty in line for the next title shot. A Koscheck-Fitch fight will not be necessary. But if it did, we all know it would simply be a wrestling clinic anyway. I don’t really understand what the big deal is with DW and others insisting this fight happen.
by lovernotafighter on Mar 29, 2010 2:34 PM EDT reply actions
After watching Koscheck vs Rumble I disagree.
Sure, Daley could KO him… but the way Kos mixed his striking (which is dangerous) with takedowns was quite impressive. I think he will take Daley down and have his way with him. When has Daley shown any kind of ground game?
Is the never in reference to:
I think he will take Daley down and have his way with him.
or
When has Daley shown any kind of ground game?
I am a HUGE Daley fan, and I still think he probably comes out on the wrong side of this fight. That said, if Kos let’s his ego talk him into getting into a kickboxing match, he’s going to sleep, guaranteed.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 29, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Probly right about a kickboxing match but I think he's gonna shoot on him like he did Johnson
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh and for what it's worth
I feel like I’m the only person in the world at times who enjoys watching Fitch fight.
Get rid of the ramp!
I enjoy some Fitch fights
But when he doesn’t improve position and just keeps trying to GnP from the guard it gets boring
I'm with you.
He doesn’t lay and pray, nor does he do what Couture did to Vera. He drops mean, nasty short elbows and just makes opponents feel miserable. Chael Sonnen has become very similar.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Fitch/Chael would be interesting – are they close enough in weight to fight?
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 29, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I enjoy Fitch’s fights. I thought he looked great against Saunders. Handled him in the standup with zero problem and landed some hard shots, then methodically controlled him and beat him down. If he’d had another round, Saunders would’ve got stopped. Much more entertaining than GSP/Hardy in my opinion.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 30, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah, the armbar and the kimura made the Hardy fight—-no such display like that in the Fitch fight. I want to see Fitch post up and GnP from guard in the future. Short elbows get boring after a bit. I’m absolutely impressed with Fitch, but grinding is boring if it doesn’t break the fighter down enough to get the sub before the 15:00 mark.
I don’t get the whole “it would happen behind closed doors”. What’s the difference between that and in the Octagon? Is there another reason they don’t want to fight other than they don’t want to beat up their friend and or share a training camp?
gracie mentality, what happens inside the camp stays in the camp (or fight club if you wanna be pop :p)
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
As soon as he said it, I thought, fine, you guys go do that and tell us who won. I really like Fitch and I’d like him to get another shot, but if Kos/Fitch aren’t willing to sort out who’s better, and who deserves a shot at GSP first, then they can’t complain that Joe Silva and Dana can’t figure that out either, and will likely just bypass them both.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 30, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Dana's response is the reason I like him as a GM of the UFC.
One of the MANY reasons boxing became such a turnoff to so many Americans was because of this “dodging” and “I-won’t-fight-this-one” culture that so many UFC Fighting Camps are beginning to cling tightly to.
While I certainly understand that Koscheck and Fitch have been circling the top 10 of the division for quite some time and should have had a title shot LONG time ago, I don’t think they help their case any by saying who they “will” and “will not” fight for the championship.
I think Koscheck is most deserving of a shot (even though he lost to Thiago and Silva), but he has to win decisively in 113.
Semper Fi
Fitch has already had a title shot and Kos has already lost to GSP.
by ufc4 on Mar 29, 2010 2:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Koscheck lost to GSP just as long ago as Alves lost to Fitch, yet people were clamoring for the Alves/Fitch rematch.
probably because more people wan’t to see fitch lose than GSP lose, and yes I understand that Alves is more likely to beat Fitch than Kos is to beat GSP. i, for one, am an underdog lover and hate seeing the same-old same-old at the top, so I wan’t nothing mor than to see GSP lose, even tho i don’t dislike him
The “I won’t fight that guy” bullshit in boxing has been promoter and manager driven, with guys wanting to protect their cash cows. Since the UFC is a single promoting entity, there isn’t that problem. I can respect not wanting to fight a teammate a lot more than not wanting to fight because your manager is afraid you might lose.
by Chromium on Mar 29, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I still don’t get why they don’t just re-schedule the Fitch-Alves fight for June or July, the Kos-Daley winner gets the next title shot and the Fitch-Alves winner gets the next shot after that. Koscheck might lose and this whole argument would be pointless. And even if he wins he couldn’t fight Fitch til like August, are they really gonna hold GSP out til the end of the year to face the winner of that fight? I really doubt they want him to sit 8-9 months after having just missed all that time with his injury.
by ufc4 on Mar 29, 2010 2:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
They still may do that, as I think your idea is pretty good.
I agree with those who say that if these guys don’t want to fight each other, they won’t, and nobody will make them. And at the same time, Dana can use that scenario to pass over them for title shots for other guys who make a more “interesting” matchup with GSP, i.e. guys who GSP hasn’t already defeated. As long as both sides understand, then there shouldn’t me any misunderstanding.
Honestly, this wouldn’t be half as big an issue as it is made out to be – had Dana not gotten it into his head that Fitch and Kos must fight. He’s not half as mad about some other fighters refusing to fight one another. Especially since neither of them are exactly lighting the world on fire as far as entertainment value goes (and since GSP has already made mincemeat of both) there’s no reason to get all hung up on how they must fight each other.
Of course, all of this is completely irrelevant since Dana has decided that they absolutely MUST fight each other to get a title shot. Nevermind if the fight is even necessary at this point.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Mar 29, 2010 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I sort of agree with this. But this isn’t just a case of teamates not wanting to fight eachother. It’s two teammates who’ve been in the top 5ish of the division for well over a year now, which seems like somewhat of an unprecedented situation.
That said, I still don’t think it’s absolutely necessary that they fight at this point, but if they both keep winning, it’s inevitable for them to fight. Though I can see Kos maybe getting a shot if he beats Daley convincingly. If that happens and he loses and Fitch wins his next one, who do you have to fight for a #1 contender?
Kinda off topic
I respect Fitch and GSP’s talents.
I just dont want them together anymore in one event unless they are fighting each other,
I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand
its funny shields gets railed for the mayhem fight but
Gsp gets a pass when he has decisioned his last three in a similar fashion.
Gsp is the least impressive Guy on the P4P lists.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 2:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Penn fight was well on its way to being a decision
TKO by exhaustion isn’t exactly a definitive stoppage.
If making someone quit on their stool isn’t definitive, I don’t know what is.
by PM23 on Mar 29, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
To the death?
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 29, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
TKO due to concussion is as decisive as it gets. Making a guy quit because he didn’t want to get beat up any more. That’s is tapping out between rounds. Really, it doesn’t get any more absurd than calling GSP-Penn anything but definitive.
by Hardcharger on Mar 29, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
sorry i forgot bj was after fitch
How bout this, decisioned his last three that actually weighed in at 170. ( pudgy Bj was 167 I think ).
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 3:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s still not much of a point.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Mar 29, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
kinda is,??
If your gonna be considered one of the best p4p fighters… in the world your scariest asset shouldn’t be your cardio. being able to finish isn’t just important, its the most important. Much like fitch.
Gsp has said he wants to finish more and I hope he starts
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 3:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, it was an awful point, thrown out there in desperation as your initial statement was flat out wrong. I’m not sure how you managed to take a meandering path from a Kos-Fitch topic, then mentioned Shields out of the blue, and used that as an excuse to say how GSP isn’t an impressive guy on the P4P lists. What’s most important is beating the highest amount of great fighters, which GSP has done more than anyone else. But that’s neither here nor there when it comes to this topic.
i was responding to someone who said they didnt wanna see two "dominant performances " like gsp and fitch have on the same card.
I assumed it was cause they were boring.
Then mentioned how shields got railed for not subbing mayhem and just being "dominant " when Jacere or gsp couldnt sub/finish him either and shields subbed his two previous opponents.
Fitch gets called boring and a blanket for not finishing.
But gsp gets a pass for not being able to finish fitch Hardy or alves and before the forests fight was ranked above Anderson in the p4p rankings when he doesn’t have tons of finishing ability.
Its just weird how people view things sometimes. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I am sure people think my line of thought is silly at times as well.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 4:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't call the Sheilds fight Dominant
He did get saved bye the bell in the 2nd or 3rd other than that I would say it was pretty one sided. But I don’t think you were dominant if you were ever in real trouble of getting finished
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
he was dominant for 24min and 45 secs.
It was a position war and he won. I see what your saying though.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 5:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
GSP’s performance doesn’t compare to Shields’ performance. I thought that GSP’s fights are a lot more entertaining than Shields’. The sub attempts and the set-ups were entertaining and I couldn’t believe that Hardy got out of it.
But I think that people are getting a little bit out of hand on this. GSP didn’t have the best fight of his life, but who’s going to fight their absolutely best every single time?
i think people are givin Daley way too much of a chance
He has fought lower level comp and standup fighters except Hazelett (who had the dumbest fucking gameplan ever) since he lost to Shields and Nick Thompson, Nick freaking Thompson. There is nothing to suggest he has improved TDD and ground skills, and he doesn’t even have close to the bjj defense skills of Dan Hardy.
I think Kos is just going to take him down and GnP the crap out of him in 1 round. Kos wants a title shot, he’s not gonna fight stupid anymore. I don’t think Kos will even bother to stand for 1 round like he did against Rumble
by Stillberry on Mar 29, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
another thing
Kos should have absolutely zero worry on the ground. Even going back to when Daley was fighting in smaller shows, his only submission win was Submission(punch to the body)
He better not, trying to stand with dailey just to set up a takedown is dangerous already. Just shoot and GRIND A DECISION!
I'm a lover not a fighter
yea those rough house guys have the answer for d1 wrestling champs.
Long as he uses the shields battle plan semtex will be defused.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 2:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Another thing about Fitch
his strength of schedule (March Madness is taking over) has been incredibly weak since the GSP fight. His top win is against Paulo Thiago. His other fights are against Gono, Pierce, and Saunders, all of which he’s outclassed and none of which he’s tried to finish.
Meanwhile Koscheck has been stepping up and fighting all comers. Since losing to GSP he’s fought: Hazelett, Lytle, Alves, Yoshida, Thiago, Trigg and Johnson. He lost to Alves on short notice and Thiago by brain fart. And besides Lytle has finished everyone in spectacular fashion.
Far as I’m concerned when you are facing better competition, having a loss is much better than a decision victory over poor competition.
twitter.com/thisredengine
excellent point
Kos is a fighter. Fitch plays the game of mma. Am I being a dick?? Or do others feel the same?
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 2:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’d love to see Fitch vs Koscheck. Let’s make it happen Dana.
’
I’d love to see the AKA blockade broken, but I bet that fight would be a snoozer.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
Koscheck is no longer the blanket he once was.
Dude fights for finishes. He likes bonus money way too much.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 29, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
reply fail...
once more with feeling…
Kos puts on an entertaining fight. But Fitch can make anyone look dull, and I imagine those guys know each other way too well to catch one another with anything spectacular.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Mar 29, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Kos has better wrestling and can keep it standing…outside of GSP and maaaaaaybe Shields, I don’t think anyone at 170 can take him down. And I think that it comes down to Swick not wanting to get his shit pushed in by Fitch and Kos. As I said at the top, the policy seems to be more of Fitch/Swick. Kos loves money and fame too much to turn down that fight.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 29, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is that both men have been beatin badly by GSP. For instance of Kos had never fought GSp before it would be an easy choice just give the title shot to him seeing as he never had a crack as the belt yet, but the fact of the matter is that these two guys can’t keep cleaning out the top 2 to 7 of the division and dodging one another.
Yeah
Kos puts on a decent fight. But Fitch can make anyone look dull, and I imagine those guys know each other way too well to catch one another with anything spectacular.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
Pay them both a bonus if they sign to fight each other, then pay for relocation and training for both of them to go to a new camp of their choice for 8-10 weeks. After they fight, they can return to AKA to circlejerk.
Three words: Interim Title Match
They’ve said that they’d only fight if there was a title on the line; so why not bust out the imaginary one?
by madiq on Mar 29, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
AKA has no case, IMO
Fighters are supposed to fight. I don’t think that fighting people you train with should be that big of a deal. If they really are such a team, why would they care who of them gets the title or title shot? Seems like a weird paradox to me.
certified warlord
By forcing this issue, Dana White is basically admitting that WW is thin and top heavy.
Which it isn’t at all. I can think of a ton of great matchups for either fighter out of their camp. If Dana can’t, he’s either out of touch with his roster or just going for a power grab… and the former option is absurd.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 29, 2010 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think that’s what he’s saying at all. I think it’s a situation where the top of the division hasn’t changed, just that they’ve all lost to the number 1 guy and unfortunately they all need to fight each other to figure out who gets another crack at it.
Plenty of guys have gotten title shots with 0 top 10 wins.
And totally deserved it. See: Kenny Florian. He was promised a title shot even before the Stevenson fight. But Fitch and Kos will both have top ten wins in their current streak if this is a real issue, with Paulo Thiago losing to Fitch and Daley to Koscheck. Not to mention that Rumble had GREAT odds against Kos, and was a slim favorite if I recall.
By saying that they need to fight each other for a title shot, Dana has called the rest of the division irrelevant. Beating Paulo Thiago, Paul Daley, Martin Kampmann, Thiago Alves, or Matt Hughes wouldn’t be enough? All are top fighters coming off good wins, Hughes being the exception but he’s still ranked number 8.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Dana in no way called the rest of the division irrelevant.
Dana even said:
He’s in the mix. There’s a couple of guys at the top of the (welter)weight division.
Dana was simply clowning Fitch’s desire for a title shot. Fitch said a title shot was the most important thing and Dana mocked him and basically said “fat chance” by asking him if he would fight Fitch. Dana knew the answer and figured it would be an easy way to blow Fitch off.
He's saying there is only one fight worthy of earning him a title shot.
And it’s not even the highest ranked guy in the division (Alves). It’s a team mate. So like I said initially, he either says the rest of the division is irrelevant or “I don’t give a fuck about what I can do, it’s about MAKING you do what I WANT!”
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Where did he say "there is only one fight worthy of earning him a title shot."
Dana was just saying a title shot can’t be that importnt if you won’t fight Kos to get there.
Dana doesn’t want to give Fitch a title shot and he is simply flexing his muscle on the issue. I guess it is a “power grab” if that is what you want to call it, but I think Dana is simply displayng a valid reason not to give Fitch a shot.
Are you serious?
White: Yeah, he’s in the mix, there’s no doubt. He’s in the mix. There’s a couple of guys at the top of the (welter)weight division. Maybe we do him and Koscheck for the No. 1 spot.
Q:Would you be open to that, Jon?
Fitch: No, I wouldn’t be open to that.
White: He doesn’t want the title shot that bad then.
Right there. One fight. You don’t want that then you don’t want a title shot. There’s only one fight Dana finds acceptable.
And yeah, you’re agreeing with me. Dana is trying to use his power to crush the fighters/management. He’s saying “It’s my world. You just fight in it. Don’t forget I can send you to prelims and cut your sponsorship money. Or just freeze your contract so you can’t make anything. Well, you would make something off posters and Round 5/Jaxx figures, but I own your image too so you ain’t getting none of that. Enjoy being broke.” He’s allowed to do this, but he’s being a tyrant.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
You take promoter speak WAY to seriously. You act like Dana is doing his best to just crush Fitch and everything associated with him. Forget the facts that Fitch hasn’t been permanently relegated to the prelims despite not having a fan friendly style and despite and adversarial relationship with management. You gloss over the fact that Fitch is very well compensated and allowed to maintain a relatively busy schedule for someone fighting in the UFC.
It’s not a one sided issue like you’re painting it. Dana is justified in wanting to make a match with the number 2 and number 4 ranked welter weights in the world and his desire to make that match is not an indictment of other fighters in the division. It’s a very logical match and it makes a lot of sense and I can sympathize with Dana and Joe Silva’s frustration in not being able to make that match. It’s either that fight for Fitch/Alves 2 which has thus far been a snake bitten fight.
by Worldisart on Mar 29, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's not promoter speak.
Dana Put Fitch on prelims right after the GSP fight out of spite. He cut him before over petty shit. He almost cut Koscheck too. Talked about how Cain’s future with the UFC was in jeopardy. All this was over holding out for 5-10 year image rights contracts rather than lifetime. Not even anything to do with fighting. Sure, you can say he’s barking, but this dog has sharp teeth and has bitten before without much provocation.
Dana is an angry, emotional, reactionary guy. I normally make my usernames on boards and such my real name, there’s a reason I use a pseudonym for MMA sites. Call me paranoid, but he’s lost his shit over less scathing things than my criticism.
And now Fitch is throwing a wrench in his plans, unilateral domination of everything MMA, again. Roger Huerta said guys didn’t get paid enough and he wanted to act… so he went from five fights a year to nothing for 13 months. Sherdog just lost their press credentials… again. For no real reason. Don’t try and write this off as a non-issue. Dana is indeed a tyrant, both in terms of power and willingness to use it.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
It is promoter speak
Your explanation is one of the must paranoid and unbalanced criticisms of Dana White I’ve ever read.
I am by no means calling the man a saint but as with everything it’s always a two way street. At what point do the fighters have to have some accountability as well? Look at it like a job. As a fighter your job description is to fight whoever is put in the cage across from you. That’s Jon Fitch’s job. Now he’s going to say to his boss that he’s refusing to do his job and you expect his boss to just shrug, be cool with it an move on.
I’m a video editor on a TV show. If I go to my boss and tell her that I’m not going to cut a given episode, I lose my meal ticket.
I side with management whole heartedly on issues like these. Dana White is asking Jon Fitch to do his job.
No... he's not. You're just so wrong.
As a fighter your job description is to fight whoever is put in the cage across from you.
That’s so wildly inaccurate that if you honestly believe it, I’m done responding to you. Not just in this line of conversation. Completely and totally.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Do you know why there are bout agreements that fighters need to sign?
Because it’s their job to fight who they sign to fight. Not “whoever is is put in the cage across [from them].” Nowhere in their UFC contract does it force them to fight anybody.
And I said I use a pseudonym so I may speak freely. I’ve emailed staff here using my real name, I’m not overly paranoid, I just know how the UFC works. And no, it’s not just them. Gyms, trainers, fighters… they are more full of drama than Dawson’s Creek.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Cop out
Why sign a contract if you aren’t going to sign the bout agreements? It’s still inexcusable unless there are extraordinary circumstances.
As for you, I’d say grow a pair, quit being paranoid and if you’re so concerned about the ramifications of your opinions relative to your standing in the MMA community, I’d learn to either express them more even handedly or keep them to yourself.
But long explanations about why you use a pseudonym make you seem paranoid and disingenuous.
by Worldisart on Mar 29, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ignore my pseudonym. You use one too, my reasoning doesn't matter.
Do you really not see the extraordinary circumstances? Fighting his main team mate and sparring partner? Who he shares a gym, management, sponsorships, and a feeling of comradeship with?
That’s why there are contract with the UFC and contracts for fights. So you don’t have to fight in situations like this. If you don’t get that, I’m going back to my previous stance of you’re a moron and I’m done dealing with you. I come here for intelligent conversation.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
how
did your username even get brought up in a conversation about fighting teammates?
Am I missing something? Why would you even mention that?
by JayKim41 on Mar 29, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I brought it up as an example
of how people need to work around Dana in the world he’s created. Wasn’t a great point, but he wanted to harp on it. And then call me a coward for it. Gotta love it. Not equating myself to the same level of prestige, but I’m guessing he thinks Mark Feldt was a coward too.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Or I know maybe you’re so afraid that the Zuffa Gustapo is going to come after you that you can’t speak freely.
Yours is the crappiest response there is to an argument.
“You’re wrong, I’m not talking to you.”
Good work there.
have you ever knocked out your bff?perhaps broke your friends arm on purpose?
Until you do that you have no right to pass judgement on others.Don’t get mad when other people don’t wanna do it either.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 5:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
For the record
You’re totally wrong and he’s totally right.
Saying “there is only one fight worthy of earning him a title shot”
and
“Maybe we do him and Kos for the #1 spot”
is absolutely not the same thing and completely supports the idea that Dana was just clowning Fitch because he already knew the answer and the whole teammates not fighting teammates thing annoys him to no end. You might consider taking a breather.
Being a tyrant? Dana didn't sign Koscheck and Fitch as a package deal.
He signed them individually with no stipulations on their contracts.
What if Eli and Peyton Manning decided they wouldn’t play football against each other. Would the NFL re-work the playoff tree?
Maybe that is an extreme example, but the fact is…
If a fighter is going to pick and choose theor fights they will not get treated the same. If you tell you boss “Nope. I’m not doing that.” Are you gonna get interviews for a raise?
Dana has in no way implied that. He’s trying to avoid a situation whereby Alves, Fitch and Kos all fight GSP a second time, all lose and then all go on to continue to feed on lesser ranked fighters in the talent pool.
At least this why you can have two pools of fighters i.e. group A Fitch, Alves and Kos and group B Daley, Thiago and Hardy, both capable of manufacturing contenders.
by Worldisart on Mar 29, 2010 3:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty simple solution...
The UFC could drop Jon Fitch.
As sad as that is, he isn’t appealing to any fans but hardcore fans. And he isn’t huge within the contigent of fans either. Koscheck, on the other hand, produces some excitement right now, fought GSP the first time on short notice, and has devastating ground and pound. He’s the opposite of Jon Fitch.
The UFC could simply tell Fitch to head to Strikeforce, and honestly — nobody would be that disappointed. Sure, it rids the UFC of a top flight guy, but the UFC is looking at this as a business.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Mar 29, 2010 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I've had this conversation with deowade
Send him to Strikeforce, let him LNP Diaz to a W and then kill their WW division by boring people to death. Henderson besides that bomb to Bisping’s jaw has been decision Dan so it’s not like he’s selling PPVs himself.
Getting Fitch signed by Strikeforce would be great.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 29, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct.
I suppose it’s a downer that some of us feel that Fitch is a boring fighter, but that’s reality. He’s not exciting, he’s methodical on the ground, and he isn’t appealing to the fans that matter — casual fans.
They could drop him, and it wouldn’t hurt the UFC at all. It might, however, hurt their relationship with AKA. But, would Koscheck be so upset that he’d leave?
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Mar 29, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The UFC dropping Fitch for no reason
would be yet another sign that the UFC is more concerned with being “Sports Entertainment” than being a legitimate sport.
by George Lucas on Mar 29, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Another sign?
Seems like it already is.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Mar 29, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been crying about the same thing for about five years.
by Daniel Faust on Mar 29, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Nowhere obviously
but that doesn’t mean the UFC should be taking affirmative steps to delegitimize itself
by George Lucas on Mar 29, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
well it’s not exactly no reason.
I don’t think it’s smart, but cutting the number 2 guy because he refuses to fight the number 4 guy is not exactly something strictly from the world of entertainment.
by Phildo on Mar 29, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kos to me sees AKA as just a place to train
Has no loyalties. If Dana said you and Jon fight for the title, I think he would. He likes money and fame.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 29, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It is a win-win for the UFC business wise, which I hate.
I’ve considered this and came to the conclusion that it would be the most non-sporting move by the UFC in recent memory. Sure, they’d take the sheen off of Nick Diaz and give SF a “boring” champ. And they’d be rid of their supposed logjam. But they’d be cutting a top talent for no reason but not being like Jorge Gurgel. And quite frankly, logjams at the top of the division mean one thing; lots of talent. It’s happening at HW right now, but nobody says they should cut Carwin, Cain, or JDS because there’s too many top fighters.
All that said, there’s a bigger reason for this issue than just training together. They share management as well. AKA is more than just a gym, they provide for all their fighters. They sell sponsorships as group deals. You’ll notice they all wear Sprawl shorts, and share tons of other sponsorships. They are even more close knit than the Ed Soares Black House brigade. Partially because of Ed himself, but that’s another story…
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Sure, it’d be a ‘non-sporting’ a.k.a. dick move, but I’m sure Dana White would say that he broke his contract and they cut him. He wouldn’t sign on to fight.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Mar 29, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't break the contract.
It actually just extends the timeframe 6 months. A freeze out a la Huerta is more likely if they go that direction.
By non-sporting, I mean it’s directly opposed to the sport part and solely for the entertainment part of the UFC. And after signing Toney and Kimbo, they have been real heavy on the “entertainment.” This would be pushing their legitimacy really hard… at least amongst the core. But we’ll watch anyways, so who gives a shit about us?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
It can break the contract because the UFC can break it at any time. If they see Fitch as just hanging around and drowning fighters out but avoiding his teammates, they may just say “Forget it!” and drop him.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Mar 29, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, right.
Just your initial reason for breaking contract was not completely correct. They can cut him at any time for any reason. They already did it to him once. Dana doesn’t need an excuse to do it again.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
trade him for shields: -)
Ufc is a climate controlled event, no blankets needed.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 29, 2010 3:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Shields may be there soon enough.
I think Shields might be the answer for Fitch’s ground game too.
Asuming a Shields signing… and a Daley win:
If Shields beats Hendo, I think he might come to the UFC and get a WW title shot.
If Shields loses to Hendo, I think he gets Fitch.
If Kos wins in impressive fashion, I still think he gets the shot.
Totally off topic
Has anyone seen a poster for ufc 112 other than the one in the email for the presale tickets which didn’t have Silva & Maia on it?
by ufc4 on Mar 29, 2010 3:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
It's a ludicrous argument
There are literally dozens of quality welterweights for both Kos and Fitch to fight, and if Hardy can put together a title run against non-contenders, why should anyone else have to?
At least 30 of the FightMatrix top 50 welterweights (and 9 of the top 10) are in the UFC. Why should we pretend that Fitch/Kos is the fight that “needs to happen”?
by George Lucas on Mar 29, 2010 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Because they are not only top 30, they are top 10 and probably top 5.
Dana White cannot force them to fight each other and I don’t think he will. As he mentioned at the press conference, Fitch and Koscheck apparently don’t want title shots that badly if they aren’t willing to battle other top contenders. It isn’t the promotions fault that the pair decided to train in the same facility and cannot detach their BFF-necklaces long enough to train in a different room or building. So Dana doesn’t have to make this fight; he doesn’t have to force them to fight. He just has to wait them out and let other guys like Hardy, Alves, and Paulo Thiago get shots because you don’t see them questioning the matches that get made. Joe Silva is not there to cater to a fighter’s desires. He’s there to book fighters against other fighters that not only would be an exciting fight, but more importantly a fight that has serious title implications. As this match surely would.
by Daniel Faust on Mar 29, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we’re going by Fight Matrix they’re #2 and #3.
Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate
by Richard Wade on Mar 29, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
This fight always seems to back up into relevance
Koscheck vs Fitch always seems to come up. There are still good fights for both outside of fighting each other though such as Martin Kampmann, Dan Hardy, Paul Daley (I know he’s fighting Koscheck already), Ricardo Almeida, and other up-and-comers. I suppose that they should fight each other so that they can just be done with it, but I do feel that there are more than enough quality Welterweights for them to fight without them having to fight each other.
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