GSP's Sportsmanship at UFC 111... Right or Wrong?
by Martial Farts on Mar 28, 2010 11:05 AM EDT
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PrintDuring GSP's title defense against Dan Hardy, I felt myself coming over all warm and floaty when I saw the Canadian fighter simply let go of the kimura that Hardy had refused to tap to.
It was as clear as day. That arm was there for the taking, and at that moment, GSP could have gone one of two ways. The way of Aoki Shinya, Rousimar Palhares or Megumi Fujii, or any other fighter with killer instinct and--for the time when the cage door is closed at least--no mercy, would have left Hardy nursing a shoulder joint that resembled a cup sitting about three centimetres from its saucer, and his arm flapping about like a limp noodle. St. Pierre took the sportsman's option, the martial artist's option.
He was completely, unworriedly dominating Hardy, and there was no need to take that arm home with him.
Some of you may lament the lack of finishing, and I admit that--despite cheering for Hardy--I wanted to see the fight over rather than crawl to a halt at the end of the fifth round. But I winced when GSP slapped on that kimura and cranked it up to the back of Hardy's head. I was glad I didn't have to see that brutal moment where the skin wobbles, there's a barely perceptible, almost inaudible bass crack, and then the limb hangs loose and unconnected.
I applaud GSP's choice to leave the arm. And it was a choice; he had complete positional control of Hardy, and could have ripped the arm off, but chose not to. Is that a sign of something else? Surely, GSP has trained enough to know how to finish from just about any position. Has his pursuit for the purest levels of martial art robbed him of the old-fashioned bloodlust that is needed at the highest levels of the sport? Or is GSP the evolved mixed martial athlete, one who his truly separating the spectacle from the sport?
Does GSP lack the killer instinct? There are many people disappointed with GSP's performance and the lack of a finish. Personally, I prefer the five-round decision win for GSP, and Hardy back to fight another day, to seeing GSP break Hardy's arm.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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the armchair warriors strike again...
first off, GSP lost the kimura, if you see in the replay, wasn’t able to re-grab hardy’s wrist. I would imagine the reason he was holding it there so long was because if he let hardy’s arm go, hardy could have gone for a sweep, so he was trying to regain base before switching positions. Hardy also had his other arm linked around GSP’s leg, which was preventing GSP from changing his position and popping the arm out and really cranking on it.
The issue with the arm bar, was GSP was too high up on hardy’s head, and wasn’t close enough to his shoulder. The last 2-3 seconds of the arm bar was the only 3 seconds it would have actually hurt, when George twisted the arm away from his body and started torquing it over his leg. But at that point, because GSP had more weight on his leg that was over Hardy’s head, his base wasn’t good, and Hardy could hip escape.
Blame bad technique and position, or credit hardy for being able to prevent GSP from locking up perfect technique. Don’t blame a lack of a killer spirit.
by haggardhero on Mar 28, 2010 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 9 recs
armchair warrior?
Where did that come from?!
I disagree. I will watch the footage again, but I’m pretty sure GSP had the ability to finish the fight with the kimura, and chose not to.
Perhaps you only skim-read what I wrote, but I was praising GSP for that.
Be water, my friend.
http://www.scramblestuff.com (Imported Japanese MMA goods!)
http://www.thegrapplingdummy.com (my Blog)
GSP said himself that he was going for the break
He said it in the post fight interview. Please let these excuses stop.
by MMAGuard on Mar 28, 2010 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
With the kimura or the armbar?
Be water, my friend.
http://www.scramblestuff.com (Imported Japanese MMA goods!)
http://www.thegrapplingdummy.com (my Blog)
by Martial Farts on Mar 28, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Ooh
I should have listened to the interview before writing this. Oh well! It really did seem to me that he went as far as he was prepared to, Hardy didn’t tap, and so he moved on to something else.
Be water, my friend.
http://www.scramblestuff.com (Imported Japanese MMA goods!)
http://www.thegrapplingdummy.com (my Blog)
It’s too easy to get too wrapped up in the bloodlust of fighting and start thinking about some kind of ‘win at every cost’ mentality…
In reality, fighters or not, those in the cage are two human beings, two men who – despite being there voluntarily and being aware of the possible consequences – at least deserve the right to not cross certain borders at their own discretion. Even if the rules do not mandate it, we should at the very least back of from demanding blood and physical injury as proof of some arbitrary ‘killer instinct’.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Mar 28, 2010 12:06 PM EDT reply actions
I agree… you realise that, right?
Be water, my friend.
http://www.scramblestuff.com (Imported Japanese MMA goods!)
http://www.thegrapplingdummy.com (my Blog)
by Martial Farts on Mar 28, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you train in Jiu-Jitsu?
This is not intended to be inflammatory, I’m just curious. Because there is a lot more technique to a kimura than most people posting in these same types of threads seem to realize. Just because you are in position doesn’t mean you can finish. Very very slight changes in the position of your opponent’s arm (or your arm, or your body, or your legs) can drastically alter the torque of the submission. The angle of your opponent’s arm, shoulder, and wrist matter. It’s simply not a move that is finished the moment it is “locked in.” The same goes for an armbar, incidentally.
yes he does.
If you look at his site, you can watch some grappling videos of them in tourneys, training, etc.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 28, 2010 12:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, thanks.
I have a purple belt. And it looked for all the world to me as though GSP simply decided not to break the arm, when he probably could have.
Be water, my friend.
http://www.scramblestuff.com (Imported Japanese MMA goods!)
http://www.thegrapplingdummy.com (my Blog)
oops, didn't see that you already replied.
(mobile site sucks haha)
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 28, 2010 12:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I really enjoy Martial Farts blog, and I am no purple belt yet, thats why i was a bit surprised when I read this post, mainly because anyone who has competed as a grappler knows just how much of an impact proper position has on a fight’s outcome.
In jiu-jitsu I was always taught, position then submission. and last night, like GSP said in the post fight interviews and the behind the scenes footage, that he tried to use too much strength and not enough technique.
I do have to agree with you though, the kimura looked so deep that i felt my shoulder hurt, and was waiting on the edge of my seat for a snap…
All this about Hardy not tapping is wrong
he was a bout to tap during the kimura
life is sexual transmitted disease!!!
Unlike the technical application of a sub...
… tapping is a pretty black and white proposition. “Bout [sic] to tap” is not the same as tapping.
Im just saying
he said he didn’t know what “tapping” was. But he was very close to tapping. He’s not the “tuffist man in the world”
life is sexual transmitted disease!!!
Oh...
Well yeah, you sort of misprinted your headline then. You’re saying Hardy not “KNOWING what tapping is” is wrong. Though I think we’re all mature and intelligent enough to recognize hyperbole when we hear it and treat it accordingly. Aren’t we?
I mean, he was wearing a TAPOUT shirt when he said it…
Derly
From what I’ve seen/heard, the elbow joint pops/breaks before the shoulder in a kimura/americana. I used to think it was the shoulder that would break first, but a lot of blackbelts in judo tell me the elbow will pop first. Even though the pain is on the shoulder to begin with the first break usually happens at the elbow, thats why a kimura is legal in judo competition. Whereas an omoplata is illegal in judo for attacking the shoulder joint. As for the “seen” part, I recall the video of Frank Mir’s protoge breaking someone’s elbow with the americana. Whether you push the arm up or down it’s still going to snap at the elbow first. With the right angle it can break the shoulder first, but more than likely you see the elbow pop and the arm dangle from there.
Next, I want to say that it looked to me as though GSP let go of the kimura. Hardy escaped the armbar, where I still think GSP could have just yanked on it and snapped it, but was respectful enough not to. But it looked like he just let go of.
And I admire the sportsmanship
I admire GSP for not just exploding into the submission and snapping Hardy’s arm. I watched the fight at home with my dad and a friend, none of us wanted to see Hardy’s arm broken. But at the same time we all felt that GSP could have ended the fight with a technichal submission had he exploded into the submission more.
It’s like training whitebelts in judo/juijitsu, you often have to keep them away from jointlocks until they learn to control the submission more. Otherwise they end up using explosive strength while just locking up the submission and break someone’s arm. Once something is locked in, you just have to explode a bit to break joints. When you don’t do that you leave room for escape, but usually still have the option to continue cranking. That’s what it looked like GSP was doing.
"It’s like training whitebelts in judo/juijitsu,"
No, it’s not.
It’s a UFC welterweight championship bout.
by George Lucas on Mar 28, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Forget the technical aspects of the kimura for a second
what you’re saying is that a professional fighter at the elite level of the sport- a champion, no less, who is seconds away from finishing a fight somehow has a crisis of conscience and decides that forcing his opponent to tap out would be too mean?
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on BloodyElbow, by far.
by George Lucas on Mar 28, 2010 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You don't get...
That not all fighters are completely free of conscience or the ability to empathise with their opponents?
Be water, my friend.
http://www.scramblestuff.com (Imported Japanese MMA goods!)
http://www.thegrapplingdummy.com (my Blog)
by Martial Farts on Apr 2, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Fans want....
1. For Champions to Fight the toughest competition
2. For Champions to “stand and bang” and produce a spectacular knockout
3. For Champions to NEVER lose
see any contradictions in there? lol
We’re not satisfied with champions clowning some poor sap (Fedor/Zulu), we don’t want a champion to beat a really tough guy in a really technical manner (GSP/Alves), and we don’t like losses (Miguel Torres).
Sorry but the fact is not every fight can be like Anderson Silva vs Forrest Griffin (a champion, clowning a legitimate fighter, entirely in the standup in a technical as opposed to brawling fashion).
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