UFC 111 Post-Fight Interviews - Rousimar Palhares Receives Disciplinary Action
by Nick Thomas on Mar 28, 2010 2:30 AM EDT
in MMA News
Email
Print
Middleweight Rousimar Palhares, who defeated Tomasz Drwal via heel-hook, was suspended 90 days for failing to release the hold. The dangerous lock, which can quickly cause serious damage to the knee of a competitor, is often banned in lower-level competitions. Palhares latched on to Drwal and cranked hard even as the Polish slugger tapped repeatedly. Palhares had to be pried off of his foe by referee Kevin Mulhall before finally releasing the hold.-- Click here for the interviews.
HT: mmajunkie.com
148 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Good
As much as I love Palhares, he potentially ended Drwal’s career, for no reason. Terrible sportsmanship. I was happy to see it on Spike, but I almost wish the general public didn’t see that.
good indeed
I’ve personally learned the hard way what a heel hook can do to a guy and I was definitely not impressed by Palhares tonight.
Getting the win is good, but not releasing a devastating joint lock like that is uncalled for.
www.mmalinker.com
by exsanguinator on Mar 28, 2010 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I wished for the ref to have a Taser right there. Or at least an airhorn to blast in his ear.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 28, 2010 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions
The damage was done before the first tap was even signaled
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
actually...quite the point....
but not the way he intended.
Damage doesn’t just happen and stop. It would have been made worse with additional cranking.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 28, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
he should have gotten some sort of money fee too
it was really bad IMO as well. This is BTTs mentality, they hold it a little more than they should to send a message, which is BS. Even at the post fight interview with Rogan he did not apologize for it, Bustamante apologized for him…
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
by Orcus on Mar 28, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
They need to figure out how to make that Bud Light logo not slippery. And Palhares should have to give Drwal some of his purse. I understand being pumped during the fight, but he actually cranks it further after he tapped. Inexcusable.
by sam98597 on Mar 28, 2010 2:51 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely excusable.
It’s not Palhares’ job to know when his opponent is tapping. It is his job to win the fight, and the referee decides when the fight is over, not the other fighter.
problem is
Paul Harris didn’t let go immediately as the referee stepped in
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
You CANNOT EXPECT HIM TO
He’s a professional fighter, his success is predicated on him becoming a fighting machine when he needs to, every particle, every fold of his being was dedicated to finishing that heelhook, and you expect him to release it literally IMMEDIATELY?!?
It takes a split-second to realize things sometimes, you know? People are not Geth, they do not process information at the speed of light, and it is as unreasonable as it gets to expect them to.
yeah
because he’s a professional fighter, I do expect him to let go of locks immediately. and that wasn’t a split second delay by any means…
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
by Orcus on Mar 28, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Watch Sobral-Heath, it's not even the same thing.
I’m deliberately not quantifying how long I’d give a person to just react, but I do not beyond the shadow of a doubt believe that Palhares managed to think “Fuck that ref, and fuck this Drywall guy, I’m going to shear his ligaments a little more because it makes my dick hard” in between the ref coming in contact with him and him letting go.
Bisping could’ve gone out in Wanderlei’s choke, I cannot stress how unreasonable it would be to expect humans exerting that much mental and physical effort to release it on command. None of their training is dedicated to reacting to a referee stoppage quickly, none of it. All of it is related to stopping another fighter.
huh?
I cannot stress how unreasonable it would be to expect humans exerting that much mental and physical effort to release it on command
Then explain why professional fighters let go of submissions near instantly in nearly 99% of all cases. These aren’t guys that are in the minors anymore, they are at the apex of fighting. It’s not like this is Palhares first fight by any means. He’s been around long enough to know when a ref is pulling on you to break a hold you let go, not sit back and keep pulling. I realize people are going to get hurt, it’s the nature of the beast in MMA, but if you can’t control yourself and your actions while your fighting, then maybe it’s time for a career change.
by proflex on Mar 28, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
He had completely let go three seconds after the referee made contact with him.
It’s closer to two, and he didn’t “sit back”, he held the lock where it was, if you really think Palhares couldn’t’ve twisted that fibula even further if he wanted to then I don’t know what to tell you.
I don’t know what to tell you
you’re gonna have to do better then, he was excited, and trained all his life doing this. This is supposed to be a PROFESSIOAL, you know, someone who does this at the highest level. Why is it ok for this guy to do it, especially when everyone else lets go immediately after the ref gets in there. You fell the guy tapping, you know the ref is coming o stop it. Yes or no?
by proflex on Mar 28, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It's okay because it's MMA and this isn't simulated head trauma or simulated joint manipulation.
I’m in a fight, no, I never really “know” what the ref is doing until I can spend a few seconds watching him or I physically feel him. Anything else isn’t a “know”, it’s a “guess”, and when my livelihood and mental acuity is on the line, guessing is the last thing I want to do.
Well there’s no way in hell Palhares didn’t “physically feel him” at least 2 or 3 seconds before he let go.
by ufc4 on Mar 28, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
You expect combat athletes in the heat of combat to switch completly from FIGHT to NOT FIGHT in that amount of time.
I don’t. I’m calling it three seconds, it really is less than that.
im a noob and can be drunk as hell and know when my friends are tapping when im pulling a crude choke on them.
If my borderline blackout self can feel and respect a tap. A fully alert professional fighter shouldn’t need the ref pulling on you to let go.
stop right there
you’re wasting your time, this is the point a good portion of us have been making, but alas it’s falling on deaf ears.
spend a few seconds?
do you want to start watching people having careers ended or what? His opponent was dropping hammerfists from a submission, he was clearly tapping. If you aren’t situational aware of whats going on, then you aren’t a pro. Where did the extra set of hands on Palhares body come from? You have him in a leg lock, then all of a sudden someone is yanking on your arm, with both hands, it sure as hell isn’t the guy you locked up in a sub.
by proflex on Mar 28, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
If you get heelhooked, you get heelhooked.
I don’t know how you can pretend that isn’t a natural consequence of fighting, but yes. I don’t want to see people injured, but I do want to see people fight. The injuries will happen, brain trauma will ensue. That doesn’t mean I want it, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to get offended when one fighter hits another in the head.
that’s not true, BTT fighters are known to have the mentality of holding subs longer than they should, they said this on interviews. holding longer to teach a lesson, they say… I’m not saying this is what Tree Stump was thinking while applying the heel hook, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Bisping did not tap… Hardy did not tap… Drwal was tapping… a lot.
None of their training is dedicated to reacting to a referee stoppage quickly, none of it
really? all that experience in BJJ tournaments where a ref will step in if someone taps and they usually let go as soon as that happens doesn’t count, eh?
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
by Orcus on Mar 28, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
"Drwal was tapping… a lot."
I don’t know why people keep saying this. It doesn’t matter. If I were a coach I would be livid at any fighter who cued off the other fighter to let go of a finishing hold.
“BJJ tournaments”
It is a different game when facepunching is involved/expected and it is a profession. Palhares isn’t twisting that knee to win a tournament on some weekend, Palhares is twisting that knee to make his living and prevent percussive trauma to his brain.
you are missing the point
you know when a fighter is tapping, especially when he’s using you as the thing he’s tapping. You know the ref is coming in to stop the fight, if you are not aware of whats going on, then you shouldn’t be in there.
I say this:
Drwal was tapping… a lot
because you said this:
Bisping could’ve gone out in Wanderlei’s choke
if you didn’t bring it up, neither would have I. You are missing the point, scratch that Drwal was tapping, the ref stepped in and had to yank Palhares’ arm. He had to use force to stop him from continuing… You have no case here. He’s guilty, I’m a huge fan of his, I’m not going to stop being his fan, but that was a dick move and he should get penalized for it not only with a suspension, but with a monetary fee as well IMO.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
"He had to use force to stop him from continuing"
Nice job with the job description of a combat sports referee.
how many times have you seen a referee use force to stop a fight?
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
The only instance I can think of
was when Mir broke Silva’s arm, and Silva wasn’t tapping I might add.
did I not tell you to scratch the taps? It’s all about the referee stopping the fight, I don’t remember if Mir continued with the lock after the referee tried to stop it, but if he did, that would have been a dick move as well. And if that’s the only instance where you can remember a referee use force to stop a fight (there are a few others too), than there is your answer that this is not a common practice by fighters, they are aware of what is going on around them.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
sorry
that was the only one that came to mind at that moment, the biggest difference there was that Mir let go as soon as an extra pair of hands was on him, that was something I neglected to put in the original comment
I give up
can’t argue with you if all you’re only going to do is use straw man arguments
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
I answered your question.
Silva-Jackson III. There. How long was Jackson suspension?
like I said, I can’t argue with someone using straw man arguments. peace out brother, I honestly don’t have the patience :p
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
You won't even explain how that isn't an answer to your question.
Because you can’t. It is Rousimar Palhares’ job to break knees, elbows, shoulders and ankles until he is sure that the referee has ended the fight. You either realize that’s what MMA is or you don’t.
Just like you can’t answer why every other fighter lets go of their subs.
by ufc4 on Mar 28, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
One, we’re talking about the grappling part of the game, not the strikes (that’s where your straw man is coming in to play), I’m sure you disagree, but that’s how I see it. Two, what Rampage did was a dick move, and deserved a penalty fee as well IMO, the ref had stepped in to stop the fight and he dropped more shots. so did the Hendo extra drop punch to Bisping deserved a penalty as well IMO (and this time, the ref had not stopped the fight), just because they weren’t penalized doesn’t make what Palhares did right, two wrongs don’t make a right… The UFC should have gone after them as well, but they didn’t. That doesn’t mean that everyone should just continue to punch people once they are unconscious and the ref has stopped the fight.
Now, going back to the grappling side of this debate, where his opponent was not unconscious, but was tapping like a mofo and the ref did step in to end the fight where Toquinho did not let go until the ref pulled his arm away from his opponent… Toquinho is in the wrong here, no way around it.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
It is Rousimar Palhares’ job to break knees, elbows, shoulders and ankles until he is sure that the referee has ended the fight.
This is the stupidest thing I’ve read in a long time.
by dancingChicken on Mar 28, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
You know what's even more stupid?
The fact that this discussion ever began.
If this was a REAL-LIFE Street fight between Rousimar and Tomasz, THEN you can make a case of saying Rousimar’s job is to crack heads and cash checks. But guess what? This isn’t a street fight. This was a fight in a Fighting organization.
And what does that Organization have? RULES. If you don’t follow them, you get punished, PERIOD. That’s what happened LOSER-mar Palhares when he got his azz suspended. IMO, he got off light considering he may have ended Tomasz’s Career there….
He was tapping ON HIM and the ref was telling him to stop
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 28, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
It IS his job to STOP when the ref steps in which he DIDN’T do.
by ufc4 on Mar 28, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, he did.
A moment after he was sure the ref was stopping the fight.
"That shouldn’t be necessary."
And with that, you’ve lapsed into useless subjectivity.
I think it should. Palhares shouldn’t be expected to rely on split-second contexual guesses to stop fighting, he should be expected to rely on a decisive physical indication to stop fighting.
For less than three seconds.
You think that’s a reasonable amount of time for an intense, focused human being to stop focusing. I don’t, even on things far less intense than a fight.
You got trolled so hard dude.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by Earl Montclair on Mar 28, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
why do you not realise that 3 seconds isnt good enough?
imagine if it took a person driving a car 3 seconds to push a brake when they see a pedestrian at a crossing? or a surgeon 3 seconds to react when he realises he is cutting close to an artery? or a police officer 3 seconds to realise you are holding a phone and not a gun?
you are being stupid, please stop.
How is that like Goulet? That dude goes out cold in a drafty room - Blackout612
by Well Read Idiot on Mar 28, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
lol you called him paul harris
Nice!
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
I like this guy, but seriously he needs to be more careful.
That was a dangerous lock for someone of his strength and technique, he should have been watching for the stoppage, he definitely held it for too long. The ref should never have to pry a fighter off of a fighter who is tapping.
It is never a fighter's responsibility to watch for stoppages.
It is a fighters job to finish the fight and stop when the referee stops the fight.
What do you mean try?
He did stop the fight. Palhares stopped fighting when he realized it was definitely over.
Do people really not get this? The ref has to stop a fight before a fighter should ever deliberately stop fighting, and it is unreasonable to not allow Homo Sapiens a moment or two to react.
you're the only one not getting this
the ref did stop the fight, Paul Harris is the one that decided to continue a bit more.
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
He didn't actively "decide" to do anything.
He just didn’t stop doing what he spends his entire life training to do as quickly as you think he somehow ought’ve.
Dude, are you just trying to start an argument or what? As has been said before, in 99% of other fights the guy applying the sub lets go immediately once the ref steps in, Palhares cranked for 2 or 3 more seconds, yet we’re supposed to believe he is somehow programmed differently than all these other fighters? If that’s the case perhaps he shouldn’t be in the UFC, if he can’t keep himself from delivering that kind of damage so long after his opponent tapped then he’s too much of a danger to be allowed to fight professionally.
by ufc4 on Mar 28, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so let me see if I understand you
the man spends his life training to apply submissions, things that would mess people up, ok I got that part.
He just didn’t stop doing what he spends his entire life training to do as quickly as you think he somehow ought’ve.
Isn’t stopping also part of his training? You can’t sit there and honestly expect people to believe that someone spends that much time training the moves without training to stop it.
how on earth
are you making that comparison? We aren’t talking about punching, I’ll give you credit on trying to shift the topic, but that was just a bad attempt at it.
"training the moves without training to stop it"
No ones trains to stop hitting, no one trains to stop wrestling, no one trains to stop submitting. You have to do all three as a natural part of how training works, but fighters do not drill reacting to referee stoppages.
are we talking about
hitting or wrestling? No, this is about a submission, and yes, you train to stop those. If the ref pulls on your arm once, you let go, there is no excuse for what he did last night, the ref yanked more then once before he let go. This is almost like talking to the wall
That’s all well and good, you’ve still never addressed why almost every other fighter who doesn’t “train to stop submitting” stops as soon as the ref steps in while Palhares didn’t.
I don't have to address "almost every other fighter" when I'm not talking about almost every other fighter.
Why did Nate Marquardt not hit Demian Maia when “almost every other fighter” would have?
Interesting question, but has no place in a discussion about whether or not Nate Marquardt should’ve hit him. Nate Marquardt should have, and if I were his couch I would’ve had a word with him about it after he didn’t.
I wouldn’t with Palhares.
please billyJane
open up google and search “logical fallacies”
learn how not to commit them, then come back and discuss.
by JaTinkles on Mar 28, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
“No ones trains to stop hitting, no one trains to stop wrestling, no one trains to stop submitting.”
You have just said something demonstrably untrue. Every athlete who trains at a top level trains to respond to a tap because if they didn’t, they would very quickly have no one in camp with working arms.
You are either an armchair warrior (my money is on that, if only because you persist in the telltale misuse of the word ‘combat’ in your descriptions) or completely and totally ignorant of how people actually train for mma.
It is characteristic of bully groupies like yourself that they have no understanding of the role of discipline and restraint in mixed martial arts, or for that matter in the actual combat you wrongly conflate it with.
Do yourself a favor. Stop now.
by theidlesthand on Mar 29, 2010 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL
So many carebears! What would have happened if Palhares released the sub and the ref let the fight go? IMO, he did the right thing in not releasing until the ref stepped in. Is the ref suspended for not stopping the bout sooner?
Not like Palhares will fight in 90 days anyways so this suspension means nothing…
LOL, so many carebears and only one SOB! When you feel a fighter tap, you know the ref is going to stop it, the least you can do is STOP F’ING CRANKING! Then another classy thing would be to release as soon as the ref touches your arms. Eegads, what planet are you from that you enjoy seeing someone’s entire life altered because some meathead decided it would be fun to continue cranking? I’m a little bit taken aback.
Yeah, that’s the biggest thing. I was watching with a roomful of casual fans and they were all really upset at seeing a guy keep cranking a hold that was causing the other guy so much pain as the ref was stepping in.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 28, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
When you feel a fighter tap, you know the ref is going to stop it
Really? This is 100% fact for every ref? Because that ref was standing there watching it. While I do agree he shouldn’t have cranked it after feeling the tap, I do not place blame on him for keeping the hold. Did I say I enjoyed watching him continue to crank the lock? Eagads, heh.
What?
This is 100% fact for every ref?
If a ref doesn’t stop a fight 100% of the time after seeing the tap, then we have a bigger issue to discuss here.
Find me a fight documented or vid that shows a fight where the fighter tapped and the ref didn’t stop it. As a fighter, you know that when you feel the tap, it’s the refs job to stop it. You’ve gotten the stoppage, the other guy admits defeat.
And while I understand what you’re saying about making sure you continue fighting until the ref stops, you can maybe STOP THE DAMNED CRANKING when he taps. And instead of just maintaining the hold he cranked, and he even cranked after the ref touched them and was prying him off. And it’s one thing when it’s punches or just a matter of win or loss, but this is something that can permanently damage the guy’s body.
He actually cranked too much after the stoppage, or I would have agreed with you.
I'm a lover not a fighter
no shit...i wanted to defend him, but that was just ruthless and uncalled for. he needs to get a better grip of himself in the cage.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
I hate heel hooks for this reason, there is so little time to tap(esp when the guy keeps cranking it for like 4+ seconds), a 90 day suspension, what a joke. UFC should fine him and give him at least 6 months. They should use instant replay for taps, so fighters can let go, but not get screwed if the other guy lies about the tap.
I like that idea about the replay...
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
did you not watch the fight?
Fine, you don’t stop until the ref pulls you off, understood, but when the ref is standing there, trying to pry you off a fighter, and you still crank, then your an ass. As far as I’m concerned, 90’s isn’t enough MMA has enough problems, and this guy should have been made an example of. Min. half a year and the entire purse should go to the other guy. My 2 cents.
90 days?
That is the equivalent of:
“You have erred, and must be punished.”
“What is the punishment?”
“A statement that you are punished, that has no practical effect otherwise.”
Yeah...
fighters fight about every 3-4 months in general as is. Let’s look at Palhares in the UFC:
May ’08
Sep ’08
Jan ’09
Dec ’09
Mar ’10
He’s never fought within 90 days of his previous bout.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 28, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
that's why
a money fee should have been applied. Bring in the Pride yellow cards!
Don’t let anger get in the way of comprehension
Really? I would ask you to watch that submission again.
by higgledy-piggledy on Mar 28, 2010 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I would ask you to sit there with a stop watch.
It as at MOST three seconds from the referee coming in physical contact with Palhares to Palhares being rolling back with his palms empty and towards the ceiling.
Guys take longer than that to realize a round of rolling in practice is over.
3 seconds………..count that in your head thats a pretty damn long time for your fucking brain to send a signal to your limb.
your 3 seconds argument is bullshit. Me in a drunken stupor could realize someone was tapping 3 seconds.
by JaTinkles on Mar 28, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
90 Day Suspension = nothing punishment.
90 day suspension? How likely would it have been he’d have another UFC fight within 90 days anyway?
Sorry, failing to see the punishment here.
Joe Rogan is a moron. He was counting the seconds during a slow freaking motion replay of the submission, as though that could, somehow, possibly pertain to actual speed. Dude can be such a tool sometimes.
I specializes in grammar fail.
He was counting the taps, moron.
How black is that kettle?
by BillyJane on Mar 28, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m under no delusions about being a doofus on the internet, thank you very much. Though, I didn’t hear anything about counting the taps.
Rogan still wasn’t helping matters with his complaining about the whole thing. Tends to skew fan opinion of a situation like that.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Mar 28, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
is it just me
or did every video get removed?
" Im surprised GSP can get his jeans on with all these people clinging to his nuts"- Dan Hardy
Oh, shut up.
How can any of you possibly say this having seen the armbar and kimura in the main event?
Every single one of you wanted to see either of those armlocks to completion, and would have been raising eight or nine levels of hell if the ref just stepped in and said “Okay, that’s locked enough” or GSP just let go and started celebrating.
You can hit a man in the head until he gets a minor seizure, you can fully compress his carotid arteries until loss of consciousness, but being decisive with a joint lock is cause for faux empathy and a suspension?
Crap.
by BillyJane on Mar 28, 2010 9:15 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
???
I don’t understand the point of your post at all, as your examples are not comparable at all.
In this example, the fighter was not only audibly expressing pain, he was VIGOUROUSLY tapping. In addition, the referee was also pushing Palhares, who continued with one more torque.
Finally, Palhares has trained heel hooks—frequently. If he did that in practice, he’d have no partners. Point being—he not only knew he had the lock, he felt the tap too. He is conditioned too, especially with that hold.
by Rob Maysey on Mar 28, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
“the fighter was not only audibly expressing pain, he was VIGOUROUSLY tapping”
Palhares is not required to care about either of these things. Neither of these things stop a fight as far as a fighter is concerned.
Yes, Palhares torqued for a second or two longer. His eyes were closed and he was in an everloving fight for goodness’ sake, do I need to like that Fistic Science article about the SNS? Palhares wouldn’t be a professional fucking fighter if he didn’t have a functioning relationship with his SNS, he was one pumped up fighting Homo Sapien with a vested financial interest in finishing that heelhook.
Seriously, what the hell are people thinking? No one who approves of this disciplinary action ever gets to complain about a fighter not finishing a fight if they can expect potential PUNISHMENT from athletic commissions if they do.
Fighters are not somehow transcendentally lucid you CANNOT reasonably expect them to immediately react the way you want them to to non-fight stimuli. You just cannot.
“If he did that in practice, he’d have no partners”
Competition is not practice.
I shouldn’t have to say any more than that, but from the way you talk it sounds like you haven’t been in either. In any and every combat sport, competition-level force and intent has no place anywhere other than competition. That’s why you compete with people you don’t know and aren’t friends with, so they will go as hard as they possibly can and not let up until time is up or a third party (the referee) determines it is over by previously agreed upon criteria.
+1
mma is a dangerous sport. it’s not the fighters job to stop the fight, it’s the ref’s. some of these comments make me lol. “he should be classy and only torque it enough to make the guy tap but not break it.” lol?
"Live fast, die."
Fighters are not somehow transcendentally lucid you CANNOT reasonably expect them to immediately react the way you want them to to non-fight stimuli. You just cannot.
Is this the first time you have seen a submission? I can’t remember the last time I saw a guy so maliciously keep cranking a sub once the ref stepped in, yet you act like it happens 2 or 3 times per card.
No, I don't.
And maliciousness is part and parcel of hurting another human being. Maliciousness does happen far more than 2 or 3 times per card, and I can’t in good conscious call Palhares’ demeanor or behavior malicious. He finished the fight, he did what he is professionally expected to do and expressed regret almost immediately in the post-fight interview.
And maliciousness is part and parcel of hurting another human being
No, it absolutely is not.
by ufc4 on Mar 28, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t believe it was malicious. Look at the celebration, the guy had some serious adrenaline running through his veins, I think he was so focused he took too long to let go, it’s not like he tried too hurt him (well that’s a fight, obviously someone is trying to hurt the other), it’s more like he wanted to lock it deep to get the W but got carried away. I’m not saying that’s all good obviously, but malicious? No. That’s drama I won’t fall for. And it’s already bad enough as it is.
I'm a lover not a fighter
While I think he took too long to let go I don’t think it was intentional or malicious. He cranked for too long AFTER the ref stopped the fight, but technically, that’s all I can blame him for. If the ref doesn’t stop the fight, you can’t let go the sub to save your opponent, or you end like GSP with mma fans throwing rocks at you.
I'm a lover not a fighter
No chance
Babalu was resisting even when Mazzagatti was grabbing his arms, and keep in mind that he also refused to apologize, and even gloated about holding on for too long, in interviews after the fight.
by Scott Haber on Mar 28, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
That 90 day suspension is like grounding a kid in his room where he has a TV and X-box.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
that shit aint good dawg
if it was any other move it wouldn’t be so bad but heel hooks are fuckin career wrecking. that boy wont be right again for awhile.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
I don’t see why this guy is getting suspended. Matter of fact he’s looking down buy time the ref gets there. Once he relized it was the ref he let go.
by darkside3744 on Mar 28, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
When everybody is 2 sec late on what they are supposed to do that’s what happens.
I'm a lover not a fighter
I don't think he did it on purpose.You can't stop on the tap. You stop for the Ref.
the ref should have been there quicker, but its hes job to be aware of the situation. The suspension is justified. After the taps were felt he should have had HIS EYES ON THE REF NOT ON THE HOLD.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
by Rayce. on Mar 28, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
90 days is silly; if you’re going to suspend him, suspend him for 6 months or more and slap a fine on him; it’s not like he’s fighting every 90 days.
it was a gray area
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
Palhares should have let go of the hold a second earlier when the ref tried to pull him off the first time, but I don’t think it was intentional, I believe he was staring at the hold and not the referee and didn’t fully comprehend the ref had stopped it, either way he didn’t crank the hold further and whatever damage there was had already been done at that point.
The suspension is understandable, however if they are going to suspend someone for holding a submission too long then they need to do the same for people who strike another fighter after the ref tries to stop them (Rampage vs. Wanderlei) for instance.
by Niles on Mar 28, 2010 11:34 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A possible solution?
Why not use a horn blast like at the end of a round? It seems to do a pretty good job of separating fighters. I honestly cannot recall the last time I saw somebody carry on after the bell.
The issue with most KO’s and Sub finishes is that the ref must recognize the need to stop the fight, and then proceed to notify the fighters. The later can waste precious seconds as the ref sprints to save a fighter. And even then, a tap on the back from the ref could be missed in the heat of the moment.
So, why not give the refs a mechanism to immediately signal the end of a fight? They could have a button that sounds the “stoppage horn”. The instant the ref wants to call the fight, they can use this as they physically intervene. The difference may only be a nano-second, but it could be enough to prevent serious injury.
I see so many benefits with something like this:
- discrete and clear-cut stoppages that refs cannot reverse on the fly
- the ability to implement harsh penalties for any damage inflicted after the horn
- improved protection for helpless fighters!!
I personally hate seeing fighters take any unnecessary punishment in a fight. It is one of the ugliest aspects of the sport and it MUST be addressed if MMA is to continue its push into the mainstream. This could be one way to approach the issue.
What do you guys think?
by Pooman on Mar 28, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I like it!
pretty much that, it sounds like a good idea, not very difficult to implement, and it could very well prevent injuries in some cases.
Not a bad idea, but...
the crowd can be very loud during a fight, especially when it looks like a stoppage is near. If the fighters don’t hear the “bell” then the fight will go on until the ref gets there. And, the ref will now take even longer to get there because he’ll be signalling the “submission bell” before going to step in.
by flyingogoplata on Mar 29, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
True, unless ...
the ref is able to sound the “submission bell” themselves via remote… like a keyless remote for the cage :).
I guess what I’m really getting at is the need for discrete fight stoppages. I mean, when is a fight officially over in today’s MMA?
- when the ref sprints in?
- when the ref says “stop”?
- when the ref touches the fighter?
- when the ref pulls the fighter off?
Because there is so much variation in how & when the fight is stopped, its almost impossible to hold a fighter accountable for damage inflicted after the stoppage. Only egregious instances are punished today (Palhares), while there are countless others that should have drawn disciplinary action (Page vs Wand III).
Having clear and discrete stoppages using a “horn” or some other mechanism would be the first step towards implementing rules against late hits/cranks. This is really what I’m hoping for, and its ultimately good for the sport.
Suspend Carwin too
Mir was out visibly out to everyone in the arena except to the person standing 4 inches away from him.
A late stoppage is the ref's fault
Cranking a sub on an opponent after they tap is the fighter’s fault.
by Tedd Welch on Mar 28, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
????
so did Carwin throw 5 or 6 extra hits after the ref stepped in? No, Carwin could clearly see that Mir was done, he looked at the ref, and the ref just stood there. Completely different from Palhares. You can’t even remotely try to compare the two.
Playing devils advocate here...
I think we can all agree that a fighter should continue fighting until the ref stops the fight. I also believe all that watch the fight feel that the submission went on longer than necessary. But if you watch the fight and time the point where the ref began actual contact and Palhares releases the hold is less a second. Now a second, relatively speaking, is a long time in this situation. But saying that it is too long and slapping a suspension on Palhares is a slippery slop. How long is too long? Less than a second? It gets difficult to quantify and therefore becomes difficult to judge.
The Bud Light logo is now 2-0 in the UFC.
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
The fact that he held it after the tap doesn't bother me
But he kept cranking it after the ref was trying to pull him off
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 9:01 AM EDT reply actions
Watch the replay in real time...
Palhares rolls into the heel hook at 4:19. Drwal taps as the clock is going to 4:16. The hold is release less than 2 seconds after Drwal taps the first time. To me this is not holding the sub for an excessive amount of time.
We all have to remember that the fight isn’t over until the ref stops it. What happens if Drwal taps, Palhares releases and the ref didn’t see the tap? Then the fight goes on (assuming Drwal can still walk at that point).
I’ve rewatched this video a number of times and it appears to me that Palhares releases the hold within a second of the ref actually stepping in. If anyone is to blame here, blame the ref.
he was slow your'e right, but I counted 3 secs ofcourse it could have been slow mo
by doonerthesooner on Mar 29, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
If you can find a video playing the clip in real time
then just watch the timer at the bottom and see how long from the time the ref touches Palhares til he releases. Looked like a second at most to me.
Have to remember it takes time for our brains to recognize and react to a situation too.
by flyingogoplata on Mar 29, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
