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Hello Hubris: B.J. Penn Talking Return to Welterweight as Frankie Edgar Awaits at UFC 112

Photo via UFC.com

UFC Lightweight champion and USAT/SBN Consensus MMA Rankings #1, B.J. Penn is once again talking about leaving the lightweight division -- where he has amassed a 12-1-1 ranking over the last decade -- and moving up in weight where he's a much less impressive 3-4. Admittedly, his losses are to Light Heavyweight champ Lyoto Machida, Welterweight champ Georges St. Pierre (x2) and former champ Matt Hughes, but still.

Here's what Penn said to Sherdog:

"If everything goes well, I'd definitely consider moving up to 170," Penn said during a Tuesday teleconference. "Not that it's 100 percent guaranteed, but I'm thinking about it. If I do move, I'm going to move slow. I'm not going to rush anything. I'd think about it as testing the waters, maybe do something like Anderson [Silva] is doing [at light heavyweight]."

But don't think that means Penn believes he has cleaned out the UFC lightweight division:

"There are a lot of good guys out there," Penn said. "All have a good shot at fighting for the title one day. I don't want to make believe they don't exist. At the end of the day, it will be [UFC President] Dana White who gives me the phone call and tells me what's on the agenda for the next fight."

Penn mentioned #5 Gray Maynard, #4 Kenny Florian and UFC newcomer #13 Takanori Gomi by name. Of those three, Maynard presents an interesting challenge as he's a heavy-handed wrestler who's huge for the division, but he hasn't shown the kind of complete game it would take to overthrow king B.J. Florian had his shot at UFC 101 and got outclassed. Gomi was vanquished by Penn in 2003 before going on his legendary PRIDE run. But the Takanori Gomi of 2010 is a mere shade of the Fireball Kid who terrorized the PRIDE lightweight division from 2005 to 2007.

If the old Gomi manifests himself with a brutal KO win over Kenny Florian at UFN 21, Penn will have an interesting challenger, but not necessarily an entirely worthy one.

Nor is he looking past his UFC 112 opponent #7 Frankie Edgar:

"I know Frankie's got quick hands and good wrestling," Penn said. "I think he might try and kick me a lot. I don't want to underestimate his kicks. Frankie's a great scrambler, a great wrestler. You never know what's going to happen. I don't have a specific gameplan to impress anybody."

"Frankie Edgar's not a guy to look past," Penn said. "This isn't a guy to play around with. Anyone who looks past him is going to end up with a loss on his record."

While it's true that stylistically Edgar may present some problems for Penn with his slick boxing and solid wrestling, realistically Penn is heavily favored for a number of reasons: his boxing is even slicker than Edgars and he's got true KO power in his hands; his take down defence is legendary; and his jiu jitsu is on a different planet. 

Sadly, the most interesting challengers for B.J. Penn at 155lbs are outside the UFC: DREAM champ #2 Shinya Aoki, Bellator champ #3 Eddie Alvarez, #6 Tatsuya Kawajiri and Strikeforce champ #8 Gilbert Melendez. While it's certainly arguable that the top contenders in the UFC lightweight class could beat any of those listed here, we just don't know that for sure. 

So that leaves us with B.J. Penn playing Anderson Silva and taking on some non-title fights at 170lbs. Unlike Silva however, Penn doesn't have a long lanky frame that will prevent him from being dwarfed by even mid-tier welterweights. How effective would the 5'9" B.J. Penn be against even mid-tier welterweights like Ben Saunders (6'3") or Dustin Hazelett (6'1"), much less the higher tier fighters like Mike Swick, Josh Koscheck, Thiago Alves or Jon Fitch? 

There's only one way to find out I guess. 

In some senses Penn's heedless lust for challenges is admirable. This is a man who needs mountains to motivate him. Methodically cleaning out the UFC lightweight division doesn't seem to be enough for him. It's a testament to Dana White's astute and patient promotional abilities that Penn has even made this recent run at lightweight and build something of a legacy.

Will Penn's lack of patience squander that by pushing for a series of truly dangerous and mis-matched fights at 170lbs? Or will he add to his legacy by voluntarily fighting as the underdog and coming home with more than his share of glorious and improbable wins?

112_medium

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I’d be totally for mike swick being penns next fight, give swick one last shot at staying in the ufc

by kanodogg on Mar 24, 2010 12:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I really wanna see him fight Serra again.

Their first fight was awesome and even if Serra has lost a step and it isn’t competetive, I still get to see him get beat up. It is a win win situation.

by truck on Mar 24, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

That would be a good scrap.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 24, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Swick is that close to being cut just yet

but possibly approaching gatekeeper status

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that would be a long nap for Swick

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Swick is a company man. I don’t see him going anywhere unless he loses one too many in a row.

I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP

by pud333 on Mar 24, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

While Saunders and Hazelett are very talll Welterweights, I can’t imagine Penn having too many problems against those two, especially Hazelett who still isn’t that good at standup. The top five/seven (depending on how one would rank them) is the most intriguing though. Penn against Koscheck, Fitch, and Alves is very intriguing to me especially Penn vs Alves. Alves would arguably be two if not three weight classes above Penn come fight time. With Fitch, I feel the determining factor would be whether or not Fitch can take Penn down, and the same goes for Koscheck. As far as Lightweight is concerned, Maynard should get a Title shot soon (even though I don’t think he has much of a chance). I can see George Sotiropolous get a Title shot with one more big win. Also, the winner of Tyson Griffin vs Evan Dunham could put one of those two in Title contention. It is one of those things like Middleweight where the division has to sort itself out and see who rises to the top.

by chrisbboy82 on Mar 24, 2010 12:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Give him Alves.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Mar 24, 2010 12:22 PM EDT reply actions  

i dont really want to see BJ at 170 again , i think his best performances have came at 155 .

Volta Terere

check out my articles and interviews at fightlockdown.com

by Esputahlo on Mar 24, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Same here. I want to see him own the LW division for a long time. However, if he is gonna move up, I think this is the best way to do it. Take some fights up at WW to test it out. No instant title shot like last time.

I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP

by pud333 on Mar 24, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sotiropolous

If this guy keeps creating impressive wins for his next two fights, I’d love to see him in against Penn for a title shot. But besides him, I don’t really see any NEW fights for Penn besides Maynard. IMO, best case scenario is Penn fights Edgar, Maynard, a mid tier WW, then Sotiropolous. If Penn wins them all, a permanent move to WW must happen. The wild card here is if Florian just destroys Gomi and whoever is after that, but atm, Penn-vs-Florian II does not excite me.

by Cocytus on Mar 24, 2010 12:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I think Florian will do just that. I think he beats pretty much any LW in the world not named BJ Penn.

by SplitBreast on Mar 24, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Florian is to 155 as Fitch is to 170

He’ll defeat anyone the UFC puts in front of him and then get decimated by the champ.

I don’t envy those guys.

Get rid of the ramp!

by ihateemo on Mar 24, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except that WW has a Thiago Alves, who is >Fitch

by Hardcharger on Mar 24, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep

I don’t think he gets by Alves this time.

by Dooda on Mar 24, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

We will find out soon enough.

I am cheering for Alves 100%.

I have nothing against Fitch, just want to see an exciting fight and if fitch wins the fight will be far from exciting.

by truck on Mar 24, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

It very well might be over in the first round. At some point I’d like to see Alves fight Hardy. Hardy’s stand-up has been so hyped as he comes into this fight, I’d love to see him up against a tried and true elite stand-up guy like Alves.

by Dooda on Mar 24, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Alves beats Fitch, that fight could be next on his list...

It would bea good one. Truthfully, I wouldn’t mind seeing GSP strike with Hardy. I think he would win the stand up battle. I don’t blame him for taking the guy out of his comfort zone though.

by truck on Mar 24, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would be a good fight. I am an Alves fan as well, the guy is a very skilled, slick and powerful striker, he’s got great TD defense and scrambling skills, he’s as strong as a bull, and has cardio to go the distance.

by Hardcharger on Mar 24, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thiago Alves, who is >Fitch

find it very hard to agree w/ that when Fitch actually defeated Alves. Fitch is virtually undefeated in the UFC as well.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 24, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

He did, a very long time ago. Really, no point in me arguing for Alves right now when they’re fighting again in 3 days. But as of now, my take is that the 2010 Alves is a bad matchup for Fitch. Still, those guys are #2 and #3 in the world at WW.

by Hardcharger on Mar 24, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really, no point in me arguing for Alves right now when they’re fighting again in 3 days

.That i can agree w/.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 24, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

"How effective would the 5'9" B.J. Penn be"

How about we ask Thiago Alves (5’ 9") and Josh Koscheck (5’ 10") about how much of a problem their height is?

by Niles on Mar 24, 2010 12:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I think muscle is more of an issue than height

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Other than GSP, who do you really see at 170 who is significantly bigger than BJ and can use that size to give him major problems?

by Niles on Mar 24, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fitch and Kos mainly...

I’m not saying he wouldn’t do well or that he would – but he could cut to 145 for goodness sakes.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

He doesn’t want to be that IV guy

by IRodC on Mar 24, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't blame him

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t believe either guy would be able to physically dominate him. They would probably be able to take him down a few times over the course of 3 rounds (if Koscheck even tried, which is questionable), but not easily and not without paying a price and being dominated on the feet.

by Niles on Mar 24, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alves and his size could be a problem as well.

If his kickboxing is good enough to keep him ahead in the stand up, he is a big strong guy and Penn might not be able to drag him down.

by truck on Mar 24, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

BJ at WW looks puffy. The problem is BJ’s ability to gain mass. Normally when he does, it’s cause he gets fat. Muscle mass takes a long time to do well and properly. If BJ will need to do the latter to not be pushed around by the stronger guys at WW. This is why I am all for BJ moving up if he does it like he says: test the waters, do it slowly and properly.

I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP

by pud333 on Mar 24, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Hardy loses

I’d REALLY like to see him match up against Penn

by Shaun32887 on Mar 24, 2010 12:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Great idea.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 24, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. I think BJ boxes the shit out of Hardy.

I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP

by pud333 on Mar 24, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

You must’ve already fogotten about Hardy’s perfect standup!!

by Hardcharger on Mar 24, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn, I did. Until you reminded me. I changed my mind. Dan “Mr. Perfect” Hardy rd 2 via perfection.

I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP

by pud333 on Mar 24, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

if david baron beat hardy twice...

Penn beats him twice as bad.

I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.

by Loot on Mar 24, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s like a total of 4x as bad, I believe.

by Hardcharger on Mar 24, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

2 to the 4th power maybe?

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is too bad that we might never see Penn/Aoki, Alverez, or Kawijiri.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 12:25 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I don't see any of those 3 actually having anything for Penn.

They’re biggest asset in the concept of fighting against Penn is that it can’t actually happen as things stand right now.

by Razreshat on Mar 24, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're probably right...

It’s just that when you talk about cleaning out the division I don’t like to see unaswered questions.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

There will always be that guy in that other promotion (probably Japan)...

that might be the one. Can’t chase that because it is an illusion. The division will never be cleaned out.

by Razreshat on Mar 24, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont know bro, even if Penn wont ever fight those 3, i dont think anybody would deny Penn’s LW dominance.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 24, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not disputing that at all

I just want to see those fights.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too. Me too.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 24, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I give Kawijiri the best chance for any lw in the world against Penn

I wouldn’t pick him, but I think he has the best chance of anyone.

by John Nash on Mar 24, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Alvarez's chances better than Kawijiri

If Kawajiri didn’t make it past Melendez or Alvarez. I don’t think he offers anything that Penn couldn’t handle.

by truck on Mar 24, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, while I think Alvarez and Melendez might take Crusher, (as well as KenFlo and Maynard) I think Crusher has the best style to even have a chance. He can clinch, he can throw with power, and he won’t panic when he sees how good BJ’s boxing is.

Still favor BJ, heavily, but Tatsuya Kawajiri would be the one I would give the best shot to.

by John Nash on Mar 24, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alvarez vs Kawajiri was a good fight and it went back and forth, but...

Nothing from that fight makes me think Crusher could pull off a win over Penn. Kawajiri largely couldn’t get Alvarez to the matt and sure he throws power, but he wasn’t landing much. Granted, he landed enough to drop Alvarez and mount him, but even then Alvarez escaped.

Nevermind the fact that he is small enough to fight at Featherweight. I just don’t see Kowajiri as a big threat and I thuthfully think he is extremely overrated.

by truck on Mar 24, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

true story

I like Aoki’s jits ,but bj by ko in rd 1 sounds about right.

"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.

by Rayce. on Mar 24, 2010 1:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

im a huge bj fan but how insane would Shinya Aoki ufc lightweight champion sound.

by JaTinkles on Mar 24, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn’t the cliche difinition of insanity believing in something that cannot be?

We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.

by Anthony Pace on Mar 24, 2010 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

may be. you just never hear a fucking defintion used as a cliche so often, it’s crazy

We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.

by Anthony Pace on Mar 24, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

The difference between this run and his last run...

Is Marv Marinovich. Marve could get BJ up in weight while still being in shape. Before BJ Would just get fat. Mentioning the Machida fight is crazy, that was basically a LHW fight and Penn won the first round.

If BJ is smart and goes up slowly with Marinovich’s help I think he’s a Top 5 WW and maybe even the 2nd best WW.

by xfreekx on Mar 24, 2010 12:32 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

No
If the old Gomi manifests himself with a brutal KO win over Kenny Florian at UFN 21,

Not gonna happen. Given his performance over the last few years, there’s too much evidence to the contrary. Look for him to fade before getting choked out in the second.

by cyke on Mar 24, 2010 12:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Marinovich is the key

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know if there’s any evidence that Marinovich can make BJ a more muscular, legit sized WW. He’s done a very fine job at making BJ the best LW that Penn has ever been and has improved his speed and cardio at that weight, but I don’t know if it translates up to WW.

by Hardcharger on Mar 24, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s just a strength gap – BJ is already walking in with the best technique at 170. Now he wont be able to close that strength gap entirely because of his frame but he can close it enough to where his technique would make him very competitive with the best at 170.

by mmalogic on Mar 24, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is one of those see it to believe it deals. I agree with you, technique-wise, he is probably the best. The key to BJ is gaining that strength and muscle and doing it right. I think a non title fight at 170 after the Edgar fight wouldn’t be completely out of the question.

I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP

by pud333 on Mar 24, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he needs to 2 fights at WW, first one being something not too daunting. Like a Koschek would be ideal. I wouldnt do Alves for the first one cuz thiago is too big and it’s gonna take some time for BJ to settle up to that weight.

I think BJ vs Shields and then BJ vs a top and big welterweight type like Alves and then BJ vs the title holder would be a good road map.

by mmalogic on Mar 24, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s always a tradeoff however. What other aspects of his game does Penn sacrifice in fighting at 170? Does he diminish any of the attributes that he currently has at LW? Can he handle the size and power of some of the best WWs? Penn does have amazing technique, but WW has some good technicians as well, and most of those guys are also quite large.

by Hardcharger on Mar 24, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The true test comes with Fitch / Kos / Alves. All of Penn’s conditioning and strength improvements will be tested by those guys. How he does against those guys will be the defining test, IMO.

I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP

by pud333 on Mar 24, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, there will be trade off’s but BJ is at a level where if he can close the strength gap enough then his edge on technique will at a minimum make him very competitive at the top.

Im not saying he’s going to dominate WW like he did LW because his technique will be diminished by the strength gap. At a minimum he can close it enough where Id favor him over any WW except for Alves and GSP. If he can close the gap more then he can be very competitive even with GSP.

He needs to go on Frank Mir’s Diet.

by mmalogic on Mar 24, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

mmalogic- what do you think about another fight with gsp? I think penn’s new commitment to fitness goes a long way compared to where he was…and i think he couldve won the first fight if he trained properly for it

by oousty on Mar 24, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d have to see how he does with guys like Fitch and Alves first and then I can assess how he’d do but strength was a major factor in the loss and grease was a major factor in how he lost. Without the grease he would have still lost but he wouldnt have been dominated like that.

If you cant control posture its like being a white belt in BJJ.

by mmalogic on Mar 24, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, you lost me on the grease being a major factor. Grease already gets over each fighter and mixes with the sweat, and the small amount that was transferred to a small area on GSP after it had already been rubbed on 3 different areas on his feet did not make a big difference, or perhaps none at all.

For anyone rewatching the fight, GSP defends every one of BJ’s attempts to establish a high guard or rubber guard. Technically he beat Penn. He broke Penn’s grip, used his own leverage and strength, and rendered Penn unable to maintain a grip on his own leg. And not surprisingly, Penn’s legs and arms weakened later. The fact that his legs slipped down GSP’s back is just following the laws of physics as GSP used perfect technique. Not even BJ gets to disobey the laws of physics.

by Hardcharger on Mar 24, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

you sir

are the only honest person on BE

by jawz10 on Mar 24, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe you should watch the fight (not fights, but singular fight) with Alves again. Alves didn’t control GSP at all. GSP passed his guard repeatedly and easily. Alves just had the power and explosion to scramble to his feet. It’s absurd to even claim he controlled GSP.

If you want to accuse GSP of greasing before a fight, that’s an entirely different issue than the bogus accusation from UFC 94, and a sign you’re desperately grasping at straws. The UFC also has methods in place to check fighters before they enter the octagon. They do it to everyone. And LMFAO at the drops of water being a trigger. The grasping at straws continues.

I love the mention of 3 fighters as some sort of proof. Did you fail to mention the fighters that said they felt nothing out of the ordinary? Did you just overlook the fact that there were zero positions where Sherk could’ve even felt or been affected by grease? Or that Hughes vague accusation came years later? I’m sure it was just an oversight.

Let’s not make believe that this was a factor, or that no fighter has ever had grease transferred to their body after it being applied to their face. Stitch Duran even did it before. But I’m sure he’s part of some elaborate plan to cheat as well. Anderson Silva rubbed it all over his body. Rich Franklin’s corner rubbed grease directly all over his chest. I’m sure you’ve also just happened to overlook those instances, and this isn’t a case of trying to perpetuate some absurd accusations against GSP with no evidence, offered forth due to a BJ Penn fanboyesque agenda.

by Hardcharger on Mar 25, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

really?

I doubt you have any grappling training. If you did you wouldn’t say that.

"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.

by Rayce. on Mar 24, 2010 5:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Really? I doubt you do. Give me a break with the grease angle. Grease is omnipresent in any fight because it’s put on fighters faces. From there it spreads to anywhere and everywhere. If it were such a detriment to render the bottom player useless, then it wouldn’t be allowed at all.

by Hardcharger on Mar 25, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

the most interesting challengers for B.J. Penn at 155lbs are outside the UFC: DREAM champ #2 Shinya Aoki, Bellator champ #3 Eddie Alvarez, #6 Tatsuya Kawajiri and Strikeforce champ #8 Gilbert Melendez

The only reason they are more interesting is because he hasn’t beat them up already. None of them offer all that much.

Aoki would get decimated on the feet and have no way to take down Penn. While it is an interesting fight in principle, this talk goes away if Melendez beats him.

Melendez is a well rounded fighter, but is he a better wrestle-boxer than any number of fighter in the UFC? Does he bring more to the table than Joe Stevenson, Sean Sherk, Diego Sanchez or Frankie Edgar?

Kawajiri has lost to Melendez and Alvarez and doesn’t really offer anything Penn hasn’t seen. I highly doubt his ability to secure a takedown. Once again, I don’t think he has anything Penn’s past opponents don’t.

Alvarez does have a nice skill set, but is his boxing better than Penn’s? Nope. Is it better than Edgars? I’d say maybe. I know is ground game has improved as well, but Penn would likely be able take him down and finish him with relative ease. That said, he is the matchup I’d most like to see.

by truck on Mar 24, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

If anything, the title should be “Hello Humility: B.J. Penn Talking…”

by Tap or Snap Radio on Mar 24, 2010 1:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, I came in to say

That’s… not hubris. No fatal flaw here.

We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.

by Anthony Pace on Mar 24, 2010 1:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

agreed

I thought i was on cagepotato for a second with the angle this title took on BJ (kidding! sort of, they’d probably mention his mom in the title).

I’m just saying, this is about as safe an iview on going up in weight as he can give:

- doesn’t call out GSP
- in fact, specifically calls out aiming for more middling opponents (ala Anderson)
- drops the “whatever Dana thinks is best” line
- doesn’t discredit his own division or opponent

by LBo on Mar 24, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right. I’m not saying BJ lacks hubris, it’s just that these are like the few quotes it isn’t on display, lol

We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.

by Anthony Pace on Mar 24, 2010 2:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yep. This piece would make much more sense (with a bit of revision) as an article applauding Penn for his lack of hubris.

by JRN on Mar 24, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

by Dooda on Mar 24, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean I got that quote verbatim by memory? Damn I must have watched that movie a lot when I was a kid.

by Dooda on Mar 24, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know what you mean

It’s inconceivable.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin

by donkeypunch on Mar 24, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Now THAT is a rec

by brad23 on Mar 24, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

an in shape Penn beats any w.w. in the world by

Way of soul theft!

"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.

by Rayce. on Mar 24, 2010 12:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Even if he losses against WW contenders

his legacy as the greatest LW fighter would stay intact.

I am. I think. I will. - Ayn Rand

by vivero on Mar 24, 2010 12:57 PM EDT reply actions  

I like move this time

BJ went up last year just to fight GSP, not to be a welterweight. If he’s intent on being a true welterweight, with a true welterweight’s body I’m all for it. When he went up last time he also had not cleaned out the division – Edgar, Florian, and Sanchez still awaited him. He has not. Frankly there is not a single lightweight – including Alvarez, Aioki, or Mildendez – that I believe can beat him.

The welterweight division is boring right now. Only two fighters interest me – GSP because he’s dominate and Dan Hardy because he’s new and different. Everyone else GSP has run through. If Penn moves up suddenly you have compelling fights with guys like Alves, Fitch, Swick, Saunders, Koscheck, Thiago, Kampmann, and Hardy and Penn puts some spice in this. Add the possibility of Jake Shields along with youngsters Condit, Sadollah, Howard, and Johnson on the rise.

Because GSP beat everyone, every welterweight fight is through a “who cares” prism because we have seen all these guys lose to GSP. But Penn would be interesting fights for all of them (think of the trash talk with Kos or Hardy). If Penn creats a welterweight body, which he seems to be doing, a third fight with GSP would be worth watching.

Also, it would open up the lightweight division. Like there WWs, BJ has beaten almost everyone. Suddenly Maynard vs. Florian could be for a title that neither could win with Penn as champion.

by mason_beer on Mar 24, 2010 1:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Why doesn’t Penn at WW fighting other guys who GSP has also beat looked at in the same who cares prism for you? I agree that Penn could make more interesting fights at WW, but there’s still plenty of interesting fights in that stacked weight class as it is, regardless of whether or not they’ve lost to GSP.

by Hardcharger on Mar 24, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

How much does this "who cares" prism cost, and where can I obtain such a magical item?

Cause I would like to filter everything my girlfriend says through it.

I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP

by pud333 on Mar 24, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or will he add to his legacy by voluntarily fighting as the underdog and coming home with more than his share of glorious and improbable wins?

Nate I love your articles, but how unlikely is it that the former ww champ does well at ww?

"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.

by Rayce. on Mar 24, 2010 1:46 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

hazelett is 6’1 not 6’4

Goldie: "Michael Jordan-esque in his grappling skills is Travis Lutter."
Rogan: "No, no he's not. No."

by Stillberry on Mar 24, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

d'oh

thanks!

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Mar 24, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

that’d be like nate diaz fighting at featherweight, that is to say, gross

We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.

by Anthony Pace on Mar 24, 2010 2:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Oh man so many great fights for him up there. Kos and Fitch and Alves. Swick and Daley?? Daaaamn, I can’t wait for this. DO IT! DO IT NOW!!

by Dooda on Mar 24, 2010 2:29 PM EDT reply actions  

lol. True. Though I suspect he’d get Swick or Saunders level of opponent, which I expect him to win.

I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP

by pud333 on Mar 24, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hubris?

I think Penn has taken his lumps and looks better for it. He’s as ready for 170 as he’ll ever be.

by superflat on Mar 24, 2010 4:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Penn vs Hughes III

Main event type of fight Dana loves, and the casual would eat up.

This might even be Primetime worthy as long as Hughes doesn’t lose to Renzo.

by MickDawg on Mar 25, 2010 2:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Too much emphasis on height IMO in MMA.

I find it really surprising how much MMA fans look at height and immediately consider it an advantage. I’ve always kinda looked at height as a pro/con type deal. Where the taller you are, although you get a little more reach, you lose a little bit of “strength” not only because the arms are longer which is disadvantagous for raw power, but you also will have less muscle for your weight.

I think from a striking perspective, being shorter has it’s perks too. Not as many people are as good at throwing punches downwards, and as a result of the higher target for the shorter guy, as he is throwing upwards, his shoulder protects his chin more. If you don’t believe that throw a plunch at an upward angle slowly with proper form and watch how your chin is tucked behind your shoulder thowing up vs down.

Look at Jeff Monson. Not that he’s that amazing of a fighter, but he’s not even known for his boxing and he’s still competitive with most.

If BJ moves to welterweight, I hope he does bulk up, but more so just so he is harder for other people to move, not beause he needs some offensive capability.

by adamdd on Mar 25, 2010 12:26 PM EDT reply actions  

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