UFC 111 Preview: Did the UFC Miss the Mark on Selling Dan Hardy vs Georges St Pierre?
Dave Meltzer has a good piece up on UFC welterweight Dan Hardy who will challenge UFC champ Georges St Pierre this Saturday at UFC 111. First up, he's prepared to fight off his back against GSP:
"I have a lot of guys in England working on my takedown defense," he said. "I have a guy in Los Angeles who was a Division I wrestler, a guy on the British Olympic team. It's not because I'm fighting Georges, but it's an area of my game I want to work on.
At the Serra Jiu Jitsu Academy on Long Island, one of the main aspects of Hardy's training the past few weeks has been fighting from his back with training partners who are 200 pounds and more, bigger than St. Pierre, and working on ways to get back to his feet, figuring he's got 25 minutes to connect with a punch.
Secondly there is this interesting discussion of Hardy's roots in the martial arts (see also this Hardy interview with the UK Telegraph):
While St. Pierre has tried to paint a picture that it's a martial artist, himself, against a brawler, and that once the fight starts, the difference in skill level will be obvious, Hardy, 27, is hardly a stranger to traditional martial arts.
Hardy started in taekwondo at the age of six. When he was 19, he ventured to northern China to train with Shaolin monks. For two months, his life consisted of all-day training at a level he said was the toughest thing he's ever done in his life. It would be six days a week, and the seventh day he had no energy to do anything but rest. When he returned, he decided to become a fighter, and a traveler, noting after that experience he gained confidence to go places to learn, including frequent trips to the U.S., gaining a wide variety of training that has shaped him into the fighter he's become.
Hardy has been somewhat impressive in his UFC run, but he has failed to convince Zach Arnold that he's a credible threat to GSP:
Yes, I know Dan Hardy (+500 or more) is only half the underdog that Matt Serra (+1100) was going into their respective fights against St. Pierre (-700 versus Hardy), but I've yet to see anything on the hype specials or any argument online that can convince me that Hardy even has a puncher's chance. If the purpose of the Spike hype specials is to convince you that Hardy has a puncher's chance in the fight, then I think UFC has failed in accomplishing that.
And perhaps the enormous drop-off in viewers from week 1 to week 2 of the UFC Primetime special on the fight indicates that the fans are not buying it either, per MMA Payout:
The debut episode of the GSP vs. Hardy series scored big, but this follow-up has to be a little bit of a disappointment as it drops 50%. GSP vs. Penn only lost about 10% between its debut and follow up. Below is a summary of the ratings history of the entire UFC Primetime series:
January 14th, 2009 - Primetime: GSP vs. Penn E1 (880,000)
January 21st, 2009 - Primetime: GSP vs. Penn E2 (825,000)
January 28th, 2009 - Primetime: GSP vs. Penn E3 (662,000)
March 10th, 2010 - Primetime: GSP vs. Hardy E1 (1,000,000)
March 17th, 2010 - Primetime: GSP vs. Hardy E2 (506,000)
The show has done a good job of making Hardy look like a credible opponent - playing up his heavy hands and muay thai prowess - but I'm not convinced that was or should have been the main objective for the series. Primetime is an effective promotional tool when it develops a story that can evoke emotion in the viewer. One of the best ways to evoke emotion and charge the situation would have been to better exploit Hardy's trash-talking skills.
Personally I think the St. Patrick's Day factor had to have a huge negative impact on the second epidsode's ratings. But I am also among the many who cannot bring himself to believe that Dan Hardy represents a credible threat to St. Pierre's title. We'll find out Saturday if Hardy is more dangerous than we expect and shortly thereafter we'll find out how well UFC 111 does in selling PPVs.
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The ratings dip was most likely due to St. Patrick’s day. I think those ratings will bounce back this week (not to the million but to the 800k). It’s not about Hardy being a credible threat, it’s about giving him the appearance of being a credible threat which they are doing.
twitter.com/thisredengine
I was thinking the same thing.
When your key demographic is out at bars celebrating, they will have a hard time watching a hype show…
Or maybe because the week before they incorrectl advertised UFC Primetime: GSP vs Penn....
And everyone knew he’d gotten beat twice already by him.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
the UFCs target audience is males 18-34 or something
how many males that age were coherant enough on st paddys day to watch ufc primetime at 10pm?? the fact that it drew 500k viewers on the biggest drinking holiday in the world is damn impressive
I thought people used St. Paddy’s day to read Irish literature and debate the finer points of the Celtic Tiger….
watchkalibrun.com
I'm Irish
Went to a bar, the bartender said they had a special on Smith-Wicks and I left. I did not drink on St. Patrick’s day out of anger.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 23, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Its not even about being coherant. Anything short of a live event would not have kept me home to watch it. Ecspecially something they are going to just replay anyway.
This is really the key thing to me. I realize they get no ad revenue from everyone watching clips on youtube, etc., but why don’t they take online views into account? This is still pretty backward thinking. I had other plans both nights, and have still watched both episodes several times. This doesn’t help Spike, and maybe they did miss out on reaching more casual fans, but anyone who’s a fan of the sport knows we can see the show without watching it in it’s time slot. We’re still buying the PPV. Having episode 2 on St. Patrick’s Day may have foolish, and may have missed some opportunites to reach new fans, but it’s only part of the picture.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 23, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell, I just watch the Primetime specials for the inside look at training and the high production value. Kind of like Top Gear for MMA.
titos one of the top ppv draws in ufc history....
yea it really only can do so much
The problem I have with seeing Hardy as being a credible threat is that he is a good fighter going up against the very best fighter. I have a hard time seeing Hardy even beating Koscheck, Fitch, or Alves, no less GSP. Against Swick, Hardy looked good, but nothing that made me believe that he would be a threat to GSP. If anything, Paulo Thiago’s win over Swick (by a nasty darce choke) gave me more confidence that Paulo Thiago would be more of a threat than Hardy. The UFC keeps replaying Hardy KOing Rory Markham, but Markham isn’t even that high of a level Welterweight. Hardy has had only decision wins against fighters who are on a higher level than Markham (granted, he did drop Swick and Davis during his fights against them).
Agreed. GSP needed a fight, and the UFC figured Hardy is the most marketable of the challengers who haven’t already had a shot. But they chose the ability to market the fight, over a fight that people might actually view as a real threat to Georges. If they’d taken the time to make a more compelling number one contender match, maybe we’d be more unsure of the outcome vs. GSP. But there just isn’t a better matchup available right now, anyway. No one else was able to make a strong case for themself. Kos, Fitch and Alves are all tougher opponents for Georges, but we’ve seen it before. I like Hardy enough to be curious about how this fight goes down, but the outcome seems nearly guaranteed. There just wasn’t a better option, and Georges needed a fight.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 23, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC Primetime Episode 2 spent a huge portion of time talking about how Hardy is a martial artist, and focused on his training with monks. I don’t see how that can be construed as the UFC missing the mark on selling that fight, when they focused specifically on it.
It always helps to watch the show first :)
by Worldisart on Mar 23, 2010 12:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They should have put all the monk stuff in the first episode. It is something that I never knew about him and helps to paint the picture that he’s not just some brawling punk rock Brit but a student of the martial arts.
I’m not sure there’s a difference. Ep 1 has been used to give the basic overviews of the fighters both times they’ve done Primetime. Ep 2 has been used to show how GSP’s opponent is different than his trash talk presents. Ep 3 last time showed the finalization of the training camps, and presented how each guy was totally prepared. We’ll see if the forumla continues to follow what they did for GSP-Penn primetime.
by Hardcharger on Mar 23, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
From a marketing perspective
I agree that the UFC hasn’t done a terrific job of selling this fight. Realistically speaking, I’m not sure if either factor you mention (training off his back or having a traditional martial arts background) mean anything. I mean, most of these guys have been fighting in some form or another their entire lives.
The one thing I’ll say is that a puncher’s chance against GSP means a lot more than a wrestler’s chance. Fitch, say, is probably a better fighter than Hardy (and would beat Hardy 9/10 times), but I give Hardy more of a shot against GSP.
Why does Dan Hardy think he can KO GSP when he couldn’t do the same to Swick or Marcus Davis?
That’s what I’d like to know… are there any more conference calls? Can we get Luke or Brent to ask Hardy why he feels like all he needs is one punch?
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
Anthony Robbins says you’ve got to believe!!!YUS you can!
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 23, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC missed the mark
by having Spike replay the Hardy – Marcus Davis fight last week. Wow, way to show Hardy as an unstoppable KO machine. A decision win over a gatekeeper to the devision.
Exactly.
The other “big” name he fought also went to a decision. Who was the one guy he actually KO’d?? They have showed that replay a million times. Anyway imho this will be a horrible fight, wors than the fitch fight. GSP!!! GSP!!! GSP!!!
Oh, yes, Meg, yes-yes yes, everything was going swimmingly for you until this. Yes, yes, THIS is the thing that will ruin your reputation, not your years of grotesque appearance, or your awkward social graces, or that Felix Ungerish way you clear your sinuses, no no no, it's THIS. Do you hear yourself talk? I might kill you tonight.
The fight with Fitch was GREAT fight to watch and Fitch absolutely deserved it. Not a lot of people believed Fitch would win, but he had a heck of a better chance on paper than Hardy. Prior to the fight, there were arguments that Fitch might be the better wrestler, which would allow him to use his top control game to grind out and sub GSP. Turns out that was dead wrong, and that Fitch got demolished, but it was still competitive matchmaking.
This fight on the other hand is going to be a total beat down.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Agree. Sometimes the fight is a story of it’s own, even when the result is obvious. Fitch impressed the hell out of me against GSP just by raw toughness alone. So it was still pretty damn compelling to watch. This one is liable to be a more devastating finish. At this point, the story is more about seeing a dominant champion dismantling people.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 23, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
They didnt miss anything
Everythings jammed up there at the top with three top fighters not willing to fight, and GSP needs a fight after the long lay off.(If hes put in there against say kos or Silva its too easy to say the long lay off was his reason for losing) Why not put him against a guy who talks shit and has a nation behind him?
"So I put 2 and 2 together and decided that your pissing me off" "Here. Its a fruit roll up. I was gonna make you a casserole for your loss but uh... I didnt"
"So its sorta like that movie the predator, except for hunting people hes takin a crap" - Carl from ATHF
Agreed.
I don’t know what else ‘ardy has to do other than seemingly lose to one of the AKA boys to somehow be ’validated’ as a contender against GSP.
i watch those shows
for the background stuff, training etc. I just put up with the talking bollocks.
I think they are doing a good job of convincing people
You don’t know how many people I’ve talked to at school and work that the first thing they say when we start to talk about the fight is “Dan Hardy has better stand up, but GSP is just a monster!!”
So they are convincing the casual UFC fan that Hardy has a chance. Even when anyone who is even a little hardcore about the sport knows that Hardy (although good) is not better then GSP in any area.
"On March 27th GSP is gonna have to change his name to GPS, so he knows where he is."
-Dan Hardy
even though it won't happen it's still funny
Bullshit he's not
He’s better in Mohawkitude.
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 23, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's wait for the PPV numbers...
to judge the marketing. People are forgetting that basketball games were on.
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 23, 2010 3:32 PM EDT reply actions
NCAA Tournament didn't start until Thursday night
and nobody watches regular season NBA games.
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
For all the talk of appealing to a different demographic
I was watching the show with my GF who has no prob with me training mma, or mma in general. Her comment was “Why do they make it look so violent?”.
I hought about the production seemed even more focused on “these guys will stand and BANG” “This fight won’t go to a decition, someone will get knocekd OUT” than even normal UFC ppvs.
I could see MMA getting big with a ring and more focus on athleticism, tma etc. or even in the “Octagon”, but all this reveling in blood and gore doesn’t help the UFC is the purpose is to capture a broader demogrpahic.
Allmost every person is awed by great display of technique/athleticism/etc/etc but only a margin actually feels comfortable looking at an unconsious man getting his jaw punched three times in 3 different replays and hearing the commentator saying “Ohh, his out, and three more for good meassure”.
I accept the state of mind that the fighters have to be in, I respect a fighter who pulls a punch when he sees the op out more than someone doing what Soku did to Nortje in dream. But wh should the broadcaster embrace that side of the sport playhing it over and over again saying “Ouch, that hadda hur, hahahah”, with that mentalit UFC or mma in general will have a hard time hitting the mainstream.
Yeah good call. I found myself a little bit sick at the third overhand at an unconscious opponent. And he was winding up to hit him one more time when the ref stepped in.
How amped up do you have to be to not recognize that you’re hitting a sleeping body? I understand the one extra punch. But 3? Was the guy just reveling in blood lust or what? I get really worried about the guy getting seriously hurt like that.
Hahahahaha
When he was 19, he ventured to northern China to train with Shaolin monks
c’mon, does anyone believe that?
What's not to believe?
Have you even seen the 2nd countdown show? They showed a 19yr old Dan, spaghetti arms and all, training in a Shaolin Temple.
I’m not sure how authentic it was, but he did go there. Any kid can do the same thing, and book their weeks of training at a Chinese McDojo and work on their kung fu. They even take credit cards.
Anyone can go all you need to do is pay for a reservation fee to reserve yourself a place at the academy you also pay room and board. You must also pay in US dollars. They also do performances…. 1 to 14 monks – each performance time: less than 15 minutes (group performing with spear, sword, broadsword, etc. and hard qi gong show). 1 to 4 performances maximum. 5 or more performances will be discounted by 10%. .
Not exactly what most think of when you hear Shaolin Monks. Most think of a Shaw Brothers movie. Check it out shaolins.com
yah..i was out for st. patties day. along with virtually every other guy i know that would have considered watching the hype show.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Mar 23, 2010 5:25 PM EDT reply actions

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