Put Jon Jones on the Fast Track
by Michael Rome on Mar 22, 2010 8:25 PM EDT
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As a long time proponent of using the slow track for developing fighters, I am willing to admit when an exception should be made. Jon Jones is so uniquely talented that I see virtually no reason to put him on the slow path to stardom. He's been in the featured fight of the last two shows he's been on, and on both occasions he put on what I consider the performance of his career. He has nerves of steel and the skills to back it up; there's no reason to put him against someone like Matyushenko or Ryan Bader at this point.
The usual case for the slow track goes something like this: fighter X obviously has the potential to be a top fighter, but he's not there yet, and there's no reason to rush his progression when there are so many holes in his game. Phil Davis is a good example of a fighter who should be on the slow track.
Jon Jones has the skills to be competitive with just about anyone at Light Heavyweight. He dominated Vera in the clinch, took him down at will, and maintained his composure after taking a nasty illegal shot. His progression as a fighter reminds me of Georges St. Pierre: he has the flashy standing skills to win, but he's going to use his wrestling to keep people off balance and control the pace of his fights.
So who is next for Jon Jones? I say put him against the winner of Forrest Griffin vs. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira. I fully expect Nogueira to win that fight, and a Jones-Nogueira fight would really give us the answers about both men in 2010 that we're all looking for. It would also establish a legitimate number one contender for the Light Heavyweight title for the year-end show, once the whole Shogun/Machida/Rampage/Evans situation sorts itself out.
It's time to get Jon Jones in the mix at 205. If he does lose to a top fighter like Shogun or Nogueira, he is still very young and has plenty of time to rebuild himself.
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Why wait? If he loses he has lots of time to start again.
Mike Tyson was HW champ by 20.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
Yeah, Jones has everything he needs right now to be successful. He destroyed Vera. I know Vera isn’t the fighter he used to be (or ever was?) but Vera was still a serious threat, who IMO, beat Couture. Couture couldn’t take Vera down through three rounds. Jones squashed him in under one.
I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP
The scary thing is you can tell he still has alot more potential. At his current stage he can be very competitive with the best (shogun, Machida, etc…) – it’s scary to think about what will happen once he grows into his full potential.
by mmalogic on Mar 22, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No kidding. With the structure, discipline and game planning he’ll be getting at Jackson’s camp, along with his own creativity, he could potentially take over the LHW division.
I don't want to lick any butt. - GSP
Im not sold on Jacksons camp though… he needs like a Firaz Zahabi and then he needs to train in different places to reach his potential – too many times these semi closed camps are myopic and become too stangant.
he needs a head coach and then constantly evolving specialized trainers and training partners sort of what GSP has.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone say they weren’t sold on Jackson’s camp.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin
Im not sold on any closed camp like AKA or semi close camp like Jacksons… I think they are great to get a fighter to a certain level but once you’re at the championship level you need a head coach and specialized trainers and training partners that are evolving and changing with the times.
Becoming obsolete is like gravity – it’s natural and it’s always occurring… you gotta stay ahead of the curve. The strcture GSP has will become the norm for guys with the potential of Bones.
Cain should be moving in this direction as well.
Its the right camp now
Jones is so raw that he probably just needs one coach to tell him what to do. At the top end though, you really want to train with the right people for exactly what you need and bring in exactly the right guys to prep you for a fight.
I just think Jones can benefit from one guy in his ear right now.
Rashad-Machida
That seemed like the worst game plan ever, but its as good a camp as any I think .
Yeah, and somehow I doubt that the gameplan was to miss everything he threw and attempt no takedowns. I think the blame for that one is probably Rashad’s alone.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 23, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Jones is already doing that. He is part of Team Jackson, which is a very broad based camp. Jones has trained with Zahabi and will in the future. He trains striking with Winklejohn in NM, but also with Phil Nurse at the Wat. He does S&C in NM, but also with Chaimberg from Montreal. There’s no reason to think he couldn’t also train his BJJ at Renzo’s acadamy in NY, since every other aspect of his training is mirroring what GSP does.
It’s scary how many articles I’ve read today that at some point compare him to GSP. Very high praise for a fighter with a very high ceiling.
hes a guy who at 22 destroyed legit competition with good striking and a strong wrestling base
its almost identical to gsps rise in welterweight
So who's his Matt Serra?
Love me some Bones, but I don’t discount the possibility he’s due for a lesson from a more experienced fighter soon.
THEN he will go full GSP on us and take over the world…
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
No, because Hamill won on a rules violation
not being the better fighter than Jones. Jones beat himself in that fight.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Two words
Randy Couture
How did I end up on this bandwagon and why does everything say property of Chael Sonnen?
That’s just mean.
I want your ugly I want your disease I want your everything As long as it’s free I want your love Love-love-love I want your love I want your drama The touch of your hand I want you leather studded kiss in the scene And want your love Love-love-love I want your love You know that I want youAnd you know that I need youI want a bad,your bad romance I want your loving And I want your revenge You and me could write a bad romance I want your loving All your love is revenge You and me could write a bad romance
Never bet against Cigano.
I want your ugly I want your disease I want your everything As long as it’s free I want your love Love-love-love I want your love I want your drama The touch of your hand I want you leather studded kiss in the scene And want your love Love-love-love I want your love You know that I want youAnd you know that I need youI want a bad,your bad romance I want your loving And I want your revenge You and me could write a bad romance I want your loving All your love is revenge You and me could write a bad romance
by Neil Manich on Mar 22, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
thank you thank you.
"My only hope is that the Big Lebowski kills me before the Germans cut my dick off."
by Earl Montclair on Mar 23, 2010 5:55 AM EDT up reply actions
It may not be fair to Randy, but I wouldn't rule it out.
If not randy, anyone from the Couture / Franklin and Ortiz / Liddell fights are possibilities.
The UFC would rather risk a fading star than a budding contender. That may leave Thiago Silva and Little Nogueira off the list.
The loser of Rampage / Evans, the winner of Griffin / Nogueia or Thiago Silva do make the most sense, but don’t rule out the possibility of Dana throwing one of his past their prime “Name” fighters in there.
Machida beat Ortiz on route to his shot
Rua and Evans beat Chuck and were rewarded immediately
Thiago Alves beat Hughes
His progression as a fighter reminds me of Georges St. Pierre: he has the flashy standing skills to win, but he’s going to use his wrestling to keep people off balance and control the pace of his fights.
Last night my friend asked me who Jon Jones was. I simply said he was a black version of GSP. My friend goes, “That automatically means he’s going to be great.” Kinda true.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
I wouldn’t compare him to gsp, while gsp dominates fights I don’t recall him ever putting forth a pace like jones or pretty much breaking fighters like he did to Vera and hamill
by kanodogg on Mar 22, 2010 8:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
GSP came out
and killed Hieron, Sherk, Trigg, and Karo…..
Im not a big GSP due to my Serra/Penn Fandom… but he is awesome, and used to be very exciting to watch…. Now its just expected, and he strikes much less….
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Yeah, I just wish Georges would throw an axe kick every once in a while.
I want your ugly I want your disease I want your everything As long as it’s free I want your love Love-love-love I want your love I want your drama The touch of your hand I want you leather studded kiss in the scene And want your love Love-love-love I want your love You know that I want youAnd you know that I need youI want a bad,your bad romance I want your loving And I want your revenge You and me could write a bad romance I want your loving All your love is revenge You and me could write a bad romance
The Trigg fight has a lot of parallels with the Jones/Vera fight. Both guys just DESTROYED the guys they were supposed to really be tested by.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 22, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
hell yeah. i’m a huge jones nut-hugger, but i was probably more impressed by GSP-Trigg. that was just a complete clinic. if you’re trigg, it’s like “what the hell do i do after that?” whereas at least vera can claim it was just 1 elbow.
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
If that helps Vera sleep at night...
he can tell himself that lie. Jones controlled that fight from the opening takedown, just 7 seconds into the fight.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I actually said he should fight Thiago Silva next, by the way. Fighting Rogerio really might be difficult for him.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
thats kinda the whole point. He has ran threw everybody not even been tested. Lil Nog would defiantly if anything give him a fight. I think at least. Jones is nasty. Size length and skill set is going to be very hard to match up against.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
if Evans was able to take silva down at will imagine what bones, someone who is very active on the ground, would do to him
by kanodogg on Mar 22, 2010 8:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
At this point even at the age of 22. Jones would rape majority of the LHW division. Let him fight the top guys now. If he goes threw them and becomes champ. Let him go up to HW and try his hand there. The overall talent is better at 205 but the addition of size and high level wrestlers could pose some problems. But one fight at the time. He could be derailed at any moment. Weirder things have happened. I mean Machida was crowned King shortly after Shogun took him to school. One thing i love about MMA. Everybody loses. If you actually challenge yourself anyways. cough Fedor cough
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
by pitbull187 on Mar 22, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thiago Silva has not a chance in hell IMO. Why wait? It should be really difficult for him. At least Rogerio has the skills in all areas to be competitive. Thiago would have nothing more than a puncher’s chance.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 22, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Randy Couture
It all depends on who wins in the foursome of Rampage/Rashad/Machida/Rua
If Rampage wins, he will get either Machida or Rua. Rampage vs. Lyoto would sell, as would a rematch with Shogun (the UFC LOVES to give Quinton his rematches).
I think Evans would get another shot at the title if Rua wins, but I don’t see him getting Machida again, especially if Couture beats Franklin.
If Machida wins, the #1 contender will either be Rampage Jackson or Randy Couture. if Rich Franklin beats Couture, you could do a Machida vs. Franklin rematch. They’ve given title shots for less (see Rua, Shogun re: Coleman and Liddell).
I agree above that Jones should get Thiago Silva next. Frankly, I think Brandon Vera is somewhat overrated these days and has shown nothing at 205 except for the fight against Couture. The Andy and Jardine fights weren’t impressive.
As for Rogerio and Forrest, a win helps Rogerio a lot more, especially if Shogun wins the title. Their epic Pride fight could be something to repeat. Forrest still has a way back.
by mason_beer on Mar 22, 2010 8:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If Forrest wins I would like to see Griffin and Bones square off. If Griffin loses, I would rather see Bones fight Thiago Silva.
Forrest vs. Jones would be a destruction.
I think Jones would pick Forrest up and throw him out of the cage using only his EXPLOSIVE thumb.
"BANG!" - Jim Lampley's first word as a child
by SSreporters on Mar 22, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
flawed logic
The fact is, Forrest will not win the fight against Lil’ Nog. Plain and simple.
I feel that most MMA fans will want to see Jones fight top ten light heavyweights. He’s just there at that point right now where it seems natural for him to fight the upper echelon of light heavyweight, and seeing him fight a Matyushenko or a K-Sos or someone of that caliber just doesn’t really make much sense at this point. Thiago Silva is a name that is getting tossed around, and of course the winner of Rogerio Nogueira vs Griffin is a good potential opponent as well.
My instinct is that Jones would beat Silva the same way Rashad did, but faster and more violently, and I think he would probably beat Forrest however he wants.
Little Nog is the most interesting option, I would think, because of his jiu-jitsu. Watching Jones sit in Vera’s guard with his arm hanging out like that last night reminded me that we haven’t seen Jones have to play jits with a top-level guy yet… that’s still sort of an unknown (though if precedent holds, Jones will turn out to be a freak at that too).
Interesting to note that Vera’s downfall standing (failing to pull the trigger) translated to the ground as well. I bet he wishes he had thrown caution to the wind and tossed off an armbar attempt last night. It couldn’t have possibly resulted in anything worse than what actually happened to him just sitting there.
Initially I was thinking give him the loser of Shogun/Machida, but the winner of Forrest/Lil Nog would make more sense.
I think going with Silva
Is enough of a fast track. Thiago is a beast and he will certainly test him.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
He’s no longer the future of the division, he’s the here and now. I bought into his " i’m gonna make vera prove to me that he is a better muay thai striker" bs and wasn’t expecting the quick takedowns. None the less, they were very impressive.
Thiago Silva will have nothing for Bones. That will be more of the same…fast easy takedowns and elbows certified by satan. He could have more trouble implementing that stratedgy on machida and shogun but even they will succum to the enevitability of the jones takedown.
Jon Jones invented pro baxing. Alessio Sakara is the only practitioner of pro baxing.
"BANG!" - Jim Lampley's first word as a child
by SSreporters on Mar 22, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Submission via signature pro baxing Big Kabosh™?
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz
by CasualMMAFan on Mar 22, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
If not the winner of Forrest / Lil ‘Nog, I’d like to see him fight Rampage, provided Rampage loses to Rashad. I know Jones won’t fight Rashad ’cause they train together, and the only fighters who Jones should fight that could possibly be coming off losses are top tier guys, ie. Rampage and / or loser of Machida / Shogun. No need to hand feed Jones lesser opponents. He absolutely destroyed both Vera and Hamill and there is no need to keep babying him.
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
I agree rampage,lyoto, or shogun would be great est for bones
by Knight000 on Mar 23, 2010 2:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually, if Anderson Silva beats Maia and then Sonnen, a move back up to LHW and a fight w/ Jones would be tight
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
YES
He should be thrown in the real deep end, and really andy was never tested at 205 either.
HI YAH!
by Thats It For you! on Mar 23, 2010 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions
This option frightens me because I love both these guys.
And would hate to see one lose to the other.
Agreed...
But I feel he needs to get his shoot soon, because sooner than later, he’ll be filling out and not able to make the cut, which is a point I’ve made before. If he can get to the top of the food chain at LHW before then, his stock will rise significantly and his move up in weight can make him some big bucks. Jones has the chance to beat anyone at LHW, and I think he should embrace it and run with it.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Mar 22, 2010 10:28 PM EDT reply actions
Both part of the Jackson Cult
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
has anyone ever hurt two fighters in a row so bad ?
jones broke hammils shoulder and broke 3 bones in veras face
???
by Richard Doughty on Mar 22, 2010 10:36 PM EDT reply actions
any fighter who has won by KO 2 or more times has done a similar amount of damage. To the brain, specifically, and not the shoulder or facial bones.
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
Anderson Silva? Leben → Franklin was a pretty nasty pair of back to back dominations.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz
by CasualMMAFan on Mar 22, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
A top ground guy...
As impressive as his elbow-induced stoppage was to witness, Jones’ form on the ground was surprisingly sloppy. A top flight jiu jitsu fighter—and not a hesitant brown belt a la Vera—would have snapped one of the lanky arms he kept dangling in Vera’s face. I, for one, think Rua, Nogueira, Silva, and other top Brazillians would have taken advantage of Jones’ sloppiness.
Of course, I am not suggesting his win was not impressive nor am I suggesting his future is not bright. What I am suggested is that before we pronounce his ability to walk on water, we should wait for him to develop discipline and not just power from the top position.
"Der freie Mensch ist Krieger" -- Nietzsche
Well, given the camp that he’s with, I would wager we won’t see him leaving those arms hanging any more. He more than likely got chewed out for that.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Mar 22, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That “mistake” was so obvious and elementary that I think he was trying to set something up with it or something.
by SES 84 on Mar 22, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that arm was bait so vera would open his guard. take a class.
Sure glad Lesnar got his shit straightened out.
i could believe it… they say demian maia does the same thing, giving people one opening on the ground so that he can take another.
did bones or any of his coaches say this was a true strategy, or are you just speculating
www.tapology.com | twitter @tapology
Watch Bbones retract the arm and start striking every time Vera opens the guard. He does it the entire fight:
Bones arms go straight, pushing Vera flat or controlling head
Vera opens guard, turns hips towards Bones’ right arm
As Vera’s hips go towards Bones right arm, Vera’s head goes the opposite direction: towards Bones’ evil left elbow.
Bones fires a shot and attempts to posture up and stand for fatal GnP
Rinse and repeat until face breaks.
Sure glad Lesnar got his shit straightened out.
by judonerd on Mar 23, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Take a class...
I have already had multiple classes in jiu jitsu. I suggest you take a few classes in reading comprehension and/or critical thinking. Once you do, you should re-read my earlier comments. Then, it will be obvious that my response to your “Jones was baiting Vera with his arm” remark is as follows: If he was being strategic rather than merely sloppy, a top flight jiu jitsu person will snap his strategically sloppy arm." In short, my comment was simply that a world class ground specialist will take advantage of Jones if he behaves similarly on the ground. Vera was either unwilling or unable to pull the trigger. The same will not be true of Rua, Nogueira, Silva, and others. They will turn Jones’ dangling strategy into a dangling injury.
Rinse and repeat…
"Der freie Mensch ist Krieger" -- Nietzsche
you mad
Sure glad Lesnar got his shit straightened out.
by judonerd on Mar 23, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not to be super cynical
But Jackson has no incentive to have Jones fast tracked. If Jones is fast tracked and loses then he might say, Jacksons camp isn’t working for me. If he keeps destroying cans then everything will be good. By contrast a manager or Jones wants that notoriety now.
I’m not saying Jones will want the title ASAP or that Jackson is really that selfish, I’m just pointing out that different people have different motivations.
The UFC probably wouldn’t waste two of their most exciting fighters against each other in a bout that is not a championship. They’ll probably get number 1 contender fights before they meet given that they’re both new to the UFC. I see Jones vs. the winner of Rashad-Rampage for a title shot and Nogueira (after he beats Griffin) gets the loser of Machida-Rua for the title shot after Jones gets his turn.
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
Here’s why I agree with you. The best reason I can see as to why you don’t fast track someone is whether or not they might learn something about their fighting style and ability in the defeat. If you put Bader against Machida or Shogun, his destruction would be to such an extent that he wouldn’t be able to pull any real lessons or experience from it.
Jones on the other hand will give anyone a run for their money, and in a loss, Jones would learn something about himself and improve on it. Some other guy would just walk away with a big question mark hovering over their head.
I think at some point
Rich would start having flashbacks of ass-whoopins of Octagon past.
"That's right I'm into hardcore crack, that's why my teeth are so bad"
Someone call BJ Penn
Tell him Jones now get the nickname “The Prodigy”, BJ’s gonna have to come up with something else.
Greg Jackson doesn't want him fast tracked
In his last interview he said he wanted to take his time with Bones, I think he’s conflicted because if ’Shad beats Page, he could be one fight away from a title shot.
The inevitability of it is that ’Shad & Bones will have to fight one day, might as well get that out of the way.
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