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Herb Dean and Josh Rosenthal Earn Their Pay

I_cfc_mediumRefereeing was the hottest topic in MMA not even a month ago. Dana White's critiscism of Steve Mazagatti was all over vlogs and forums with fans weighing in on the issue. Last night however saw some excellent refereeing as Herb Dean and Josh Rosenthal had to make some tough calls and showed that there are refs out there who can handle the pressure and make the hard decisions.

First off was Josh Rosenthal overseeing the Sakara vs Irvin fight. Sakara's left hook hit Irvin in the eye and Irvin winced and fell to the ground holding his eye as Sakara jumped on him. Josh Rosenthal stepped in to what people initially though was a break to check the eye, but was actually the end of the fight. Rosenthal was in position to see the strike and recognized that the fist was closed when it landed. Since it was a legal strike that did the damage rendering Irvin unable to intelligently defend himself, the stoppage was a TKO win for Sakara. A perfect by-the-book call by Rosenthal who did not let the boo's from the crowd or the protestings of the fighters get to him.

The next scenario was not as clear cut but I believe Herb Dean made the best decisions possible during the Kongo vs Buentello contest. I will preface this by saying that Check Kongo needs to tighten up his game as far as fouls go. In this one fight we saw knees to the head of a grounded opponent, 12 to 6 elbows (which wether I like it or not, are currently illegal), a groin shot against the cage unseen by the ref (where Buentello also did not call attention to it aside from a look of pain) and some grabbing of the shorts. Is Kongo lucky he didn't get DQ'd? Maybe, but that result probably wouldn't have pleased the fans or the fighters. There was also a tough call where Kong had Buentello in a front headlock and was throwing knees to the head which were perfectly legal. Buentello then, without changing his body position, placed a hand on the ground to make himself grounded, rendering those same knees illegal. This was a few moments after Kongo had a point taken away for the clearly illegal knees to the head. Herb Dean stopped the action which was correct because the knees were infact illegal. However, he did not deduct a point from Kongo because he said that Buentello was "playing the game". This is why I like that call. For one, he stopped the action when the foul occured which was by-the-book. There is no arguing that Buentello became grounded and received knees to the head. It is absolutely the attacking fighters responsibility to make sure they are throwing legal techniques. Now I like the decision to not deduct a point because after throwing legal knees, he continued to do the same thing that seconds before was perfectly legal. Kongo was not in a position to see the hand change and while it is still his responsibility to do so, it was not technically an intentional foul as the previous knee was where Kongo was in position to see that Buentello was grounded.

Overall, a great night of fights where two of the fights could have ended in controversy, and while still awkward, the better fighters got the W's.

 

Image via ufc.com

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Definitely better, thanks!

by RJCT on Mar 22, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good post

I really think Rosenthal has worked his way up the ladder in the last few years to be one of the best in the business along with Herb and Big John.

by Scott Haber on Mar 22, 2010 11:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Josh Rosenthal has had some bad nights at times, but only minimal misses much like Herb. I give Herb a lot of props over the years. He’s the absolute best there is. Big John McCarthy is very good as well, but I’ve seen some miscues by him in regional action that I just don’t see from Dean. Dean is the best there is.

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by Leland Roling on Mar 22, 2010 11:29 AM EDT reply actions  

nice post

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by Kid Nate on Mar 22, 2010 11:31 AM EDT reply actions  

agreed

There was some weird stuff going on last night, and I thought the refs handled it well. One thing that I questioned was Buentello’s finger issue. From what I can tell he dislocated it, had it popped back in, and then went back to fighting. That seems odd, because if a fighter Obviously the finger is not a huge deal as far as the figher being able to continue, but it seems odd to fix a guy up and send him back out there. If he pops it in himself durning the fight, that’d be one thing. But to run away, call time out, fix your busted digit, and then go back to the fight seemed strange to me.

by Thor77 on Mar 22, 2010 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

agreed

I also thought that break was weird. Technically, if a foul did not cause the injury and the injury caused a break in action, it should have been a tko. However, I liked the call and letting it play out and if I remember correctly, it wasn’t like he pulled Kongo off of him to reset the pinky and I remember hearing Dean say something about “it’s the equipment” when they were looking at the hand. Not sure if the glove or tape had anything to do with it.

by RJCT on Mar 22, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was garbage. Should have been a TKO.

by bigweeze on Mar 23, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh

the one he just had?

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by Fake Emcee on Mar 23, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah

Buentello got tagged in the sack. He just shook it off.

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by Damon O. on Mar 23, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did notice that. Thought it was pretty tough of Buentello to not call attention to it and just keep on.

by RJCT on Mar 24, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

At that point (during the Kongo-Buentello fight), the card wasn't showing much life

I’m really glad Dean kept the fight going, through the dislocation and everything. Maybe we would have seen the Guida fight if the Kongo fight had ended earlier, but they had to squeeze in a ton of commercials.

Another thing that showed poise was Dean’s reffing during the Bones/Vera fight. I thought his decision to reset the fighters on the ground after the first upkick was different in unified rules but absolutely the best one. Vera shouldn’t get the advantage of being able to stand after the illegal kick. Dean even acted like a Japanese ref, making sure that the position was exactly the same (ie making sure Vera’s left butterfly was in).

The ref during the Howard/Roberts fight was really slow in getting Howard off him at the end though. I guess we can’t have great refs every fight, but that was particularly unnecessary.

by verloc on Mar 22, 2010 12:26 PM EDT reply actions  

reset the fighters on the ground after the first upkick was different in unified rules but absolutely the best one. Vera shouldn’t get the advantage of being able to stand after the illegal kick. Dean even acted like a Japanese ref, making sure that the position was exactly the same (ie making sure Vera’s left butterfly was in)

We were all stunned by this. It was absolutely and amazing and correct call, I just had no idea it was something refs could even do. Josh and Herb were on point last night.

by Chris Barton on Mar 22, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that I’ve never seen a lot of people talk about Rosenthal at all lets me know that he does a great job

by IRodC on Mar 22, 2010 1:11 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Good post. Referees often get a lot of unjust crap thrown in their general direction, but we must not forget to give praise where praise is earned.

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by S.S on Mar 22, 2010 1:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Fantastic post.

I’m a very happy person when I see Rosenthal or Dean in the Octagon…versus, say, an Yves Lavigne.

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by zakkree on Mar 22, 2010 1:37 PM EDT reply actions  

or Hot Tub.....

That stupid belt buckle is a signal someone’s gettin’ screwed.

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by duck on Mar 22, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm just glad

that the refs are getting their deserved praise. Reffing can be a very thankless job, and it’s good that consummate professionals like Herb & Josh are being recognized for their excellence last night

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by ElliotMatheny on Mar 22, 2010 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

I am wondering if the fact that the first fight ended with a anti-climactic false eye-poke had anything to do with Herb’s leniency with the finger issue. Initially Hard asked if it was equipment but Paul didn’t answer him and was feverishly trying to get it popped back in place before he realized. If that doctor didn’t get it back in as soon as he did I think that fight would have been called.

by YoungGun on Mar 22, 2010 1:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, Herb couldn’t justify the stoppage for much longer, but it was kinda the perfect amount of time. Maybe a little too much, but close.

by verloc on Mar 22, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

That finger dislocation incident was amazing.

I really think they keep Buentello around, at least for another fight, due to the fact that he got his finger popped back into place and was genuinely stoked to get back out there to throw punches. Dude is tough.

by MauiPimpin on Mar 22, 2010 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Buntello showed heart for sure

I doubt Dana would cut Buntello; there were a few occasions in his fight when lesser men would have quit. I’ve dislocated a finger during sparring in a similar manner and it’s not just the immediate pain that is a factor – you can’t make a proper fist or strike with a hand that’s been damaged that way.

The tissue starts to swell almost immediately after re-seating the dislocation and the pain steadily gets worse. Our fingers are extremely sensitive to pain so I was stunned to see Paul last as long as he did, especially considering all the other punishment he was weathering.

by VikingPhotography on Mar 22, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

If it was an index or middle finger I doubt he would be able to strike at all with it. Being the pinky and most likely the first joint it isn’t in direct contact when striking most of the time. I am sure it still hurt like hell anyway but adrenaline helps too.

by YoungGun on Mar 23, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Vera's 2nd Attempt at Upkicking

Was Vera’s second attempt at upkicking 100% legal? Rogan said they hit his shoulder and thats why Herb didn’t call it, but when I watched the fight a second time it appeared that the kick does make contact with Jone’s face. The kick grazed him enough to move Jone’s head slightly to the side. So it leaves me asking was I seeing it wrong, or did I overestimate Jone’s length and fail to notice he was standing?

by Derly on Mar 22, 2010 4:08 PM EDT reply actions  

legal

Wasn’t a perfect angle but I thought Jones was standing when the second one happened. I do not think it hit his shoulder, I think Joe/Goldie just thought they were covering for what, from their angle, they thought was a missed call.

by RJCT on Mar 22, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, I think Jones was in a squat position almost, with his legs above Vera’s

by Fedorable on Mar 22, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones was still down but the initial contact was on Jones’ chest and the kick glanced off extended further into Jones’ face. The kick was in such an upward motion even though it started at the chest it barely made contact and kept going up.

by YoungGun on Mar 23, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought it was illegal too, but decided to try and find a gif before pointing it out.

by Swordslasher on Mar 22, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones was standing, perfectly legal.

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by Leland Roling on Mar 23, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

in kongo's defense

buentello was in turtle guard against the cage for the majority of the fight not even fighting back it was way easier for kongo to have fouls and violations against him in a situation like that

by milk72 on Mar 22, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Great post. Herb is the best, and Rosenthal is generally really good as well. Gotta give them respect for showing how it’s done.

by Kwisatz Haderach on Mar 22, 2010 8:00 PM EDT reply actions  

good post

I agree, it was refreshing to see a card where the reffing was so on point and everyone did an awesome job. Next drink I get in my hand I’ll toast Herb Dean for a job well done!!

by dugmouth on Mar 22, 2010 8:16 PM EDT reply actions  

i think both of them are very good referee’s and always seem to give a good account of themsleves and call a fair fight another referee who is always consistent is marc goddard in the uk.

by Esputahlo on Mar 23, 2010 9:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Top refs, top post.

by goo on Mar 23, 2010 11:14 AM EDT reply actions  

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