Brandon Vera Being Unfairly Left for Dead
by Luke Thomas on Mar 21, 2010 3:36 PM EDT
in MMA News
76 comments
My predictions are locked in for this evening. I've picked Jon Jones to win his main event tilt against Brandon Vera, yet I find the notion of looking into one's own crystal ball for a peak into the future unsettling.
We do not have the liberty to bury Brandon Vera before he fights Jones. Here's what I said about Vera after UFC 105 where he lost a dubious decision to Randy Couture:
There was talk - much of it justifiable - that a fight with Couture was to be Vera's breakout moment. In fact, Vera himself seemed to signal he understood that while past performances had left fans and probably even UFC management a tad underwhelmed, a win over Couture could finally propel him to the elite status contender in the light heavyweight division.
But as we saw on Saturday, he didn't win, at least not on the judges scorecards.
Yet, this video demonstrates something about Vera that has always been somewhat lacking in his career even when his talent was omnipresent: a maturity about personal responsibility to make his career happen for himself. Despite a bitter loss and dubious, stinging decision, Vera already talks of moving forward. More importantly, he articulates critical self-reflection in realizing he could've had the kind of training that's making him the best fighter he's ever been for quite some time. That's as much regret as it is a wake up call. He's 32, so time is not on his side, but Vera requests a top 5 opponent for his next fight. If he gets one and is able to win a little more convincingly, the story of Brandon Vera will not be over.
There is life left in "The Truth". I look forward to the next chapter.
Remember, it is not hard to make an argument Vera defeated Couture, a win which would have reset the Vera landscape considerably. As to his comments, Jones is not top 5, but a win (especially convincing) will reinvigorate interest in "The Truth". I agree with Mike Fagan that Vera's been the architect of his problems. He is hesitant and often too risk averse, thereby giving away rounds or allowing of opponents who wish to fight on their terms. I tend to think that will cost him here this evening.
However, I also recognize we've never really seen anyone land clean on more than one occasion against Jones. Even when he's lost, we've seen Vera has the capacity to buckle and finish off opposition. He's dropped Scherner, Eilers, submitted Silva, smashed Mir, thrashed Andy and put away Mike Patt with leg kicks. He also nearly finished off Randy Couture. There is some question about the strength of those contenders (for Mir he was a shell of his former/present self), but they were UFC level talent and Vera was able to hurt or finish them, mostly with kicks and knees from the clinch (Mir was also tagged with a lead straight right). Vera will need to use that length tonight to land on the lanky Jones.
And most importantly, Vera will not go gently into that good night. He is very, very hard to put away. His only stoppage loss is to Werdum at heavyweight by a hugely questionable stoppage. Against men his own size, Vera is no pushover. I will not be surprised if either man wins tonight, but I would be shocked if Vera is stopped.
This is a fun fight. It's a meaningful fight for both fighters. It's also going to be close. If folks want to know why there are more decisions in MMA (even though it happens in the smaller classes more), part of the reason is by design and sometimes by the game's own evolution fighters are being evenly matched. I tend to think Jones will have tactical favoritism, but Vera is gifted with a potent skill set as well. They both are equipped with enough natural ability and skill - offensive and defensive - to give anyone in the top 10 a serious test.
If you are a Jon Jones fan, you have every right to be. He is an exceptional talent who I expect to win tonight. If he doesn't, however, do not be surprised. Sometimes, no matter how much we don't want to admit it, the truth often hurts.
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In my mind Luke has redeemed himself from his poor prediction...
He has clearly separated himself from the ‘hype train’ — relying on reason & observation to arrive at a conclusion, rather than religious zeal.
Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor
hype trains are fun as hell while the ride lasts
by kanodogg on Mar 21, 2010 3:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
completely agree.
And most importantly, Vera will not go gently into that good night. He is very, very hard to put away. His only stoppage loss is to Werdum at heavyweight by a hugely questionable stoppage. Against men his own size, Vera is no pushover. I will not be surprised if either man wins tonight, but I would be shocked if Vera is stopped.
This is a fun fight. It’s a meaningful fight for both fighters. It’s also going to be close. If folks want to know why there are more decisions in MMA (even though it happens in the smaller classes more), part of the reason is by design and sometimes by the game’s own evolution fighters are being evenly matched. I tend to think Jones will have tactical favoritism, but Vera is gifted with a potent skill set as well. They both are equipped with enough natural ability and skill – offensive and defensive – to give anyone in the top 10 a serious test.
If you are a Jon Jones fan, you have every right to be. He is an exceptional talent who I expect to win tonight. If he doesn’t, however, do not be surprised. Sometimes, no matter how much we don’t want to admit it, the truth often hurts.
Has Vera gotten brutally knocked out in sparring a bunch of times? Is that why he's so tentative all the time?
by SilverNBlackZach! on Mar 21, 2010 12:25 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe he is surrounded by wrong people. That could be the reason why Kaman left him (?)
by dancingChicken on Mar 21, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No
That was a disagreement over training fees.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Mar 21, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh
But still, change of the environment might be the solution.
by dancingChicken on Mar 21, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Alliance is a solid gym with sick training partners.
There’s a reason that Nogs, Dos Santos, and Demian Maia stop by there regularly, and they have a strong stable of regulars.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I’m not suggesting that it’s a bad gym. But maybe this particular environment doesn’t work for him, for some reason.
by dancingChicken on Mar 21, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
No, Clottey is one of the best guys in his weight class... Vera isn't.
but I seriously hope you aren’t indirectly comparing Jones to Pacquiao.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 21, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
If you are
Anton will be forced to e-stab you
by IRodC on Mar 21, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pump your brakes, kid
That man’s a national treasure.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
i certainly wouldn't leave him for dead
but the difference between jones and vera is that jones’ best performance seem to be in front of him, vera’s seem to be behind him. i’m not sure a convincing win for vera should mean that much. people will probably take it to mean a lot because of the jones hype, but i don’t think it should be considered that meaningful.
Its a very Csi-ish.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
"On March 27th GSP is gonna have to change his name to GPS, so he knows where he is."
-Dan Hardy
even though it won't happen it's still funny
lol
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
Only if he took his sunglasses off while saying it, and squinting intensely.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
while looking across his shoulder at you
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 21, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
People say I am crazy to pick Vera, but I think he will win. EVERYONE is saying that Jones is a better Vera. I think this is flawed. I think Vera at +200 is a great bet. The hype train is going in opposite directions for these fighters and I think they will collide tonight.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
Not an unreasonable position to take
I love me some Bones, but Vera’s no slouch.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
i think vera takes it
When bones fought hamil he was in the position to finish him before the illegal elbows, but didn’t. Why it sticks out is that he was looking up to the ref looking for the stoppage, and the ref didn’t. He imposed his will yes but didn’t have the power behind the strikes to end the fight. Vera takes it by decision.
HI YAH!
by Thats It For you! on Mar 21, 2010 6:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah...
Vera is getting clownfucked tonight.
I’d be much more interested if Luke could explain why he’s picking Gonzaga, who outside of Overeem is the most overrated HW in MMA, over Dos Santos. Napao has done nothing outside of ironically headkicking Cro Cop into oblivion.
Styles makes fights
Gonzaga is a world class black belt.
JDS is an untested purple belt who will be at a 20+ pound weight disadvantage.
If Gonzaga plays it smart and takes the fight to the ground, he will have a definitive advantage.
that's the thing.
I think Gonzaga will stand with Dos Santos for too long a period, and will get blasted.
If he does use a proper gameplan, he has a good chance of winning though, that makes me really excited to see this fight.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 21, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
for some reason Gonzaga always thinks his stand up is world class the first round of the fight, and by the second round he is too gased to go for the take down.
"On March 27th GSP is gonna have to change his name to GPS, so he knows where he is."
-Dan Hardy
even though it won't happen it's still funny
Duh thats what you do in the UFC!!!!
Work the early part of your life on a jiu jitsu black belt. Then forget everything you learned and become a crappy kickboxer. ITS SOOOOO Fucking Annoying!!
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
I don't think you can classify Gonzaga amongst the guys who have forgotten about their jiujitsu...
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 21, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
i would just like to see him use it more.
I know he still has it.
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
After tooling worldbeaters such as Justin McCully, Josh Hendricks, and Chris Tuchscherer. While getting ragdolled by a 44 year old 205’er, I apologize if I’m completely flabbergasted by people refering to him as a top HW.
Its not a super deep Div.
And how dare you talk down about Randy Couture!!! >:(
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
I dont know if that’s talking down as much as stating a fact. But I’ll be the bigger man and apologize.
lol
more then accepted. Randy totally mauled him. I think that was a testament to how god Randy is. Not proof of how horrible Napao is .
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
it was a divine typeo
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
Dos Santos doesn’t have a great ground game. Its kind of an unknown, while Gonzaga has a proven ground game. The ground game is how he made the head kick possible. It was a destruction of crocop and the loss to Couture was a solid fight. And the most overrated HW is Barnett.
Some people think I am a dumb, ugly human being, but really I am a beautiful ape, with exceptional verbal skills.
Its nice to see the consensus view of Barnett seems to be shifting. I remember quite some time ago saying that Barnett was overrated…and a lot of people in this community basically called me a dipshit for it. Not you in particular
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 21, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll be the first to tell you it's a gamble
I just have natural questions (not "doubts per se) about JDS’ ground game until someone actually tests it. Is Gonzaga the guy to do it? Maybe not, but he could at least a little if his head was on straight. We’ll see.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
i think both fights will prove the significance of elite training camps
when the two fighters are close to being even matched.
Even if jones doesn’t KO Vera, his hyperactive attack + Vera’s tentative style will take him to a decision.
If Vera can’t beat Keath Jardine, there is no way in hell that he can deal with a monster like Jones.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
Two things:
Once, he arguably beat Jardine. That was a close fight, and Jardine is tough for anybody.
Two: Vera’s “tentative style” includes some of the best head movement in MMA, behind Penn and Anderson of course. He also uses that head movement for some beautiful feints and misdirection to set up his point striking. I expect to see Jones hitting a lot of air tonight.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
pdl as always
You make very good points
"When i get in there, in his face ,pressin the action,I'm RUFF NECKIN'EM,I'm throwin him around,I'm punchin him,hes punchin me, I'm eatin his shots and I'm Blastin him back in the face he's not goin to be able to handle it ." - Chris Leben on how his fight with Anderson Silva is gonna go.
I'll wait until he loses for my departure.
"Well, yes, but I’m afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands." - Tobias Fünke
"There are just so many poorly chosen words in that sentence." - Michael Bluth
One of my favorite lines from the best TV show ever.
well played.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 21, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
People forget that Vera is
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 21, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Outside of the Couture Fight
Vera hasn’t done anything of note against a top level opponent since beating Mir… three-and-a-half years ago.
His biggest win is Krzysztof Soszynski, who is solid, but not Jon Jones. Even in that fight Vera didn’t put him away or do anything that made you think he was still a championship contender.
There is all kinds of talent there, and he could certainly tap into it at any time and prove the doubters wrong, but all we’ve seen lately is middling performances against the solid competition and strong performances against bottom level opposition.
Until he steps up and wows me against someone like Jones, Vera is the epitome of unfulfilled promise and why dudes need to just keep their mouths shut.
Canadian Bureau Chief and Staff Writer - MMA Madness - www.mmamadness.com
by E. Spencer Kyte on Mar 21, 2010 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That win was Vera toying around.
He was staying southpaw just to show he can and then putting on a clinic of outside kickboxing. Which is smart against a guy with brutal power like Krystof Sosynskisykisislyaki [sp].
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Agreed – he was doing something different and not getting caught, but that isn’t going to do him any good against top level guys.
You can’t fight to NOT LOSE – you have to try and win or else you get the Couture result or beaten cleanly like the Jardine fight. He seems to have lost that killer instinct from when he was first coming up in the UFC…
We’ll see if he recaptures it tonight.
Canadian Bureau Chief and Staff Writer - MMA Madness - www.mmamadness.com
by E. Spencer Kyte on Mar 21, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at the level of competition
I don’t know if Jones will be a top level LHW, but I do know that Vera isn’t one.
That’s why it’s easy for me to place a large bet on Jones for tonight. Yes, it’s possible Vera will pitter-pat a decision win and dance around the cage, but unlikely. And I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Jones stops him.
It’s been 3 and a half years since Vera stopped a top flight fighter. One thing we do know for sure, the Truth no longer hurts.
We all have that one friend
The guy that used to be really cool and was dependable. Then something changed and they turned into an unreliable shell of what they used to be. Constantly reassuring us with “I’m sorry dude. I’m just in a slump right now. I’ll be back to my old self soon.”. They have a short period where they look like they’re on the right track, and then they fall back into the same stuff. It gets tiring after you hear it over the years. Vera is like that friend, and he’s burned us one too many times.
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
This is a nice read, I just read it again — I’m curious about this part:
Vera was able to hurt or finish them, mostly with kicks and knees from the clinch (Mir was also tagged with a lead straight right). Vera will need to use that length tonight to land on the lanky Jones.
Is this a suggestion that Vera’s strengths will not match up well with Jones’s strengths. Perhaps Vera should avoid the clinch, or Jones is too long for Vera to employ his usual length advantage?
Faber, Florian, Nick Diaz, 'Mayhem', Mousasi, Fedor
If he doesn’t, however, do not be surprised. Sometimes, no matter how much we don’t want to admit it, the truth often hurts.
by The Flying Gentleman on Mar 21, 2010 4:18 PM EDT reply actions
I think he’s being fairly left for dead. He should be ashamed of himself for letting Randy control the pace of his last fight. The UFC picked him to face Couture because they knew he would almost assuredly lose it, and Brandon did not disappoint them in their decision.
I think Vera is a lot like Matt Hamill, a competent enough fighter that will never impress or go far in the sport. In his last fight, Jones made Hammill look like he didn’t even belong in the sport of MMA and I bet and hope he will do the same thing with Vera tonight.
...
“Remember, it is not hard to make an argument Vera defeated Couture, a win which would have reset the Vera landscape considerably.”
Did anyone actually score this for Vera though? the score cards were less important than the performance. Very tentative. Few combos thrown. Basically a hallmark of Vera’s recent form. I don’t see how it “resets the Vera landscape” at all. If anything it only solidified what people had been saying.
“…but they were UFC level talent.”
But they weren’t. Mike Patt should never have been here in the first place. Sure Mir is a good feather in anyone’s cap, but you said yourself Luke. He was a shadow of his former self and probably the worst Mir we’ve seen step into the cage.
I think the most damning thing about Vera is that fact that he’s 32, seemingly has all the technical skills to succeed but just cannot put it together against quality fighters. That is a huge problem and one i’m not sure he can overcome.
Did anyone actually score this for Vera though?
I did while watching it, and so did all three Sherdog judges, and BloodyElbow.
That said, it could have gone either way. I don’t think there’s any point in getting mad about a decision that close- it is what it is.
I do think JJ will win tonight in a clear UD. Wouldn’t be upset to see otherwise though.
Even if Vera had won the fight, it would be Pyhrric. Randy looked much better than him – controlling the distance & pace, etc. Other than the body kick (which he failed to make any use of), I don’t even remember Vera’s performance. He looked awful, while Randy looked competitive with someone ~15 years his junior. Even in a loss, that’s a moral victory for him, while Vera had nothing to be proud of.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Mar 21, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Give Randy full credit- he took a fight where he should have been the underdog, and fought a really smart gameplan, stuck to it, and won the decision.
On the other hand, I agree, it was Brandon Vera’s fight to lose, and he lost it. If he had fought smart at all, it wouldn’t have happened, but he just looked in awe of Randy the whole time and let him control the fight.
woops!
meant to say did anyone actually score this for RANDY
by moreofmyself on Mar 21, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
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