Alistair Overeem vs. Brett Rogers Will Be for the Strikeforce Heavyweight Title
by Nick Thomas on Mar 2, 2010 9:21 PM EST
in MMA News
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According to The Fight Show with Mauro Ranallo and Alistair Overeem: (audio) [at the 9:30 min mark]
MARCH 2 - Mauro interviewed CBS Vice President of Programming Kelly Kahl - Highlights:
- Announcing that Herschel Walker will likely not be on the Strikeforce CBS card.
- Fedor Emelianenko not being on the card because of M-1 disputes.
- Whether or not CBS will air more MMA content other than the 3 fights themselves.
- A possible fourth title fight added to the CBS [May 15th] card between Brett Rogers and Alistair Overeem (also confirmed by Alistair Overeem, comment available in podcast).
From Mauro:
"Well I know what you're asking yourself. Didn't Brett Rogers lose his last outing against Fedor Emelianenko and now he's fighting for the title? Well that appears to be the case. And one of the reasons of course is what we alluded to with Kelly Kahl, the status of Fedor Emelianenko with Strikeforce. We know there have been issues going on with Emelianenko's promoter M-1 Global. The relationship with Strikeforce said to be maybe not as rock solid as it would appear but when reached for comment. The source at Strikeforce said no comment but hopefully something’s will be cleared up in the near future."
HT: hardcoresportsradio.com, fozo
Strikeforce on Showtime in May coverage
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Fedor is becoming less relevant to MMA by the second.
by yukkurishiteittene on Mar 2, 2010 8:01 PM EST reply actions 16 recs
I hope Vadim is getting the message
Coker has had a lot of time to figure out how he wants to handle this situation with M1. He’s pissed and he’s showing them that he is more than ready to move on without them if they keep trying to renegotiate all the time. This could be an effective way to weaken M1’s hand and hopefully they will play ball. I think the choice if Rogers V. Overeem indicates that Coker believes that Fedor will still fight Werdum in the near future , Otherwise he just would have put Werdum against Overeem for the title.
Nope, he beat Burt Rogers. Easy to confuse.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 2, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
this is why SF is in an ugly situation..
if they don’t have it as a title fight, whiny internet fans will say BUT HE HASN’T DEFENDED TUH BELTZ YET! WAT A JOWK!
and if they have the Rogers fight as a title fight, BUT ROGERZ JUZT LOZT! OMG THEY’RE BAD!
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 2, 2010 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They put themselves in this situation, don’t ask us to feel sorry for them now.
by ufc4 on Mar 2, 2010 8:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
I'm not asking for anything.
They couldn’t make Fedor fight Overeem, so they set up the next big fight available..
I would’ve loved the overeem vs fedor fight of course, but nonetheless I like this match up, and I’d prefer it to be a title fight. you?
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 2, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Werdum should get the title shot… it’s very simple. Shitfarce should send M1 bout agreements and if they dont sign Werdum vs Alistair for the title is the only fight that makes sense.
I think it's because Fedor vs Werdum has been agreed already,
so they decided to move on to the next opponent…
but as a fan, I’d rather see Rogers/Overeem than Werdum/Overeem.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 2, 2010 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
They shouldn’t have offered Werdum that fight if Fedor’s contract situation wasn’t sorted out.
by ufc4 on Mar 2, 2010 8:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No one has actually come out and said Fedor isn’t fighting Werdum. Until then, I have to assume it’s still on.
M-1 actually said the two will meet. And even gave May as the date. But, of course, that’s m-1.
If the fight happens we may have to wait until April 12th for them to announce it. Here’s why:
You notice how Strikeforce leaked basically nothing about these cards. That seems to be the way they operate saying nothing. It backfires a lot because rumors can start running wild. But this time it worked, They waited until there was a big gap between UFC events before they dropped a ton of fights on us. They obviously wanted the public to themselves and wanted to make a huge splash. Now fans are going to be forced to talk about them for the next two weeks until the UFC events kick. Its kind of like when a smaller movie finds a weekend with no competition.
What’s the only thing they can announce now that can grab the mma world’s imagination? Fedor fighting. If he’s really fighting they’ll wait until they can hoard the attention (after UFC 112) and grab the headlines again.
Now I get it
Seriously though, nothing Strikeforce has done in the past makes me feel like they could actually pull off something this intelligent and calculated. Seems like just a coincidence to me.
So they have us hardcore no life having internet MMA fans talking about them for a week or so, big deal. What they need is to get some freaking mainstream advertising started so they can sell arena tickets (and hopefully get CBS to paper March Madness with ads for the April event to get the ratings up) not to have a handful of guys on the internet discussing whether they are clueless or just lucky.
I agree with you that wall-to-wall ads during the NCAA tourney would give them the best results, but don’t sell your fellow Internet geeks short. In the film biz the hardcore fans are considered pretty important, which is where I base my comparisons. These are the people that get passionate about upcoming events, spread the word, drag their friends out of their house, and attend multiple times opening weekend. These are the people that help hit that magical tipping point where it spreads geometrically amongst the masses. Hell, they’re so important that studios will hire people to post for sites like aintitcool, in hopes of influencing the other readers. Fortunately we don’t see that kind of behavior in mma….
by John Nash on Mar 2, 2010 10:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes one day we may actually be as important as we feel when we talk about MMA on the internet but we aren’t there yet. One add during the final four is worth more than months of internet chatter at this point in time.
We’re not important but the casual hardcore fan is. Maybe someone can correct me but I remember reading once that average UFC fan who makes a ppv buying decision gets the majority of their info from either Sherdog or the underground. This not all the fans who watch the UFC, but these are fans that decide to buy a ppv or got a bar to watch it and then inform others. So their influence is greatly exaggarated.
Now I think ads during the Final Four will have a much greater effect than anything else Strikeforce does, but that doesn’t mean they can’t do more. If I was going to use a model it would be Paranormal Activities. Did the run a massive ad campaign and flood the theatres? Eventually yes. But first the played it front of select audiences who would get the word out. The also ran a very effective AstroTurf campaign getting the word out on blogs (much more effectively than Black Dynamite). This is what I see Strikeforce doing or should be doing.
by John Nash on Mar 2, 2010 10:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I remember reading once that average UFC fan who makes a ppv buying decision gets the majority of their info from either Sherdog or the underground.
That seems highly erroneous. How could one quantify that sort of information?
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
Survey. Companies run them all the time of their clientelle. For the UFC it would be easy, they have the phone numbers of everyone that ordered a ppv. Just hire a company to call them and find out where they get there info about a card and how they go about choosing one.
Actually, I’m sure mmalogic may know if I’m recalling this correctly.
by John Nash on Mar 2, 2010 11:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would love to have a link to but I don’t know if what I wrote is 100% accurate.
“Maybe someone can correct me but I remember reading once that average UFC fan who makes a ppv buying decision gets the majority of their info from either Sherdog or the underground.”
by John Nash on Mar 2, 2010 11:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thanks
I actually knew you’d know this.
Wasn’t there a ufc fan purchasing habits survey released awhile ago? Didn’t it have something about the habits of those that actually purchased ppvs? If they visited sites, and what sites? That kind of crap.
by John Nash on Mar 2, 2010 11:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know how consumer surveys work
Still sounds totally erroneous and I’d enjoy a link on the matter.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
Jesus Christ, guys. He said he THOUGHT this was something that existed and multiple times said that he might be wrong.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe read the timestamps
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
I have yet to run across another MMA fan in real ife that even knew Sherdog existed and the Underground is even more underground than Sherdog.
Precisely. I know this is obviously a miniscule # and doesn’t mean a whole lot, but I know about 15 people that order PPV’s, and only one other person regularly hits up places like this and Sherdog. I find it very hard to believe that the majority of PPV buyers are sherdog-savvy.
http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money
I have a lot of friends that host UFC events at their homes
And most of them do not read Sherdog or the UG.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
I’ve even tried to get some of the guys at work to check the internet MMA sites and they look at me like I’m a crazy person. Heck I know one guy who hasn’t missed a UFC event in several years and talks about the sport constantly but he didn’t even know there were MMA sites on the internet.
Statistically everyone I have ever talked to probably doesn’t mean much but it does make it very hard for me to believe that the majority of UFC PPV orders come from guys that made the decision due to Sherdog or the Underground messageboard.
I’m not going to try and defend my statement, because as I said, I can’t 100% vouch for it. I usually have an iron trap for remembering tidbits like that, but I swear I recall a survey taken where it said UFC ppv buyers also use the UG or Sherdog. Maybe it said they were likely to follow the UFC on the Internet and gave Sherdog as an example. I can’t recall. But the amount of UFC fans who follow the sport on blogs wasn’t my point. My point was you still have to appeal to the hardcores (or casual hardcores as I like to call them) because they have an inflated influence on anything. Especially anything non mainstream.
by John Nash on Mar 2, 2010 11:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Exactly
I have numerous friends that watch every UFC event and most SF, quite a few more that watch most UFC, and then a couple casual “if nothing better’s goin on” kinda guys. None of them read any of these sites.
I'm the best ever. You're the most average in a minute.
And NEW UFC Welterweight Champion of the World.....Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy!
by slapjaw ackrite on Mar 3, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Hell, they’re so important that studios will hire people to post for sites like aintitcool, in hopes of influencing the other readers. Fortunately we don’t see that kind of behavior in mma….
I hope mmalogic gets paid to write the retarded shit he posts here. Occasionally he brings the goods but more often than not he sounds like a partisan hack on one of the cable news networks willing to say anything to advance his party’s agenda.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Mar 2, 2010 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
mmalogic is an honest UFC shill, who’s input, which I take with a massive dose of salt, I really appreciate (except for the name calling. I don’t care for that). He’d be too obvious to be an effective astroturfer. In the film biz, the really good ones nurture a record of trustworthiness and impartiality, so when they recommend a piece of shit you actually think there must be something worthwhile about the flick.
by John Nash on Mar 2, 2010 10:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
My only agenda is reality… unfortunately reality is highly biased towards the UFC and highly against every other numbskull foolishly trying to to step up – as a result i end up looking like a shill when all im simply doing is illustrating reality.
I realize in “MMA Land” it’s tantamount to being “unpatriotic” to speak ill of shitfarce and I get accused of not “supporting the troops” by the retards because I question this shit but do me a favor and just listen to the interview above…
Listen to the interview to understand what kind of cluster fuck this is…
All Kelly Kahl talks about is “Saturday Night fights” and CBS… he mentions Strikeforce once – ONCE, and that was only to clarify the contract situation with Fedor… It’s like pulling teeth.
Everyone is out for themselves: M-1, CBS, Showtime, Lashley, etc… How do you think this is gonna end?
In my “opinion” there’s an 80% chance either the shields/hendo fight or the gegard/mo fight will be off.
Zuffa has a window to sign Fedor… If the deal is finalized his contract will be purchased from M-1 for a significant amount plus “royalties” and then he’d be signed directly to Zuffa with a new contract.
Let’s see if Shiekh Dana can pull this out of his ass… yeah, the Abu Dhabi relationship came with lots of “perks” (political relationships all across the globe including russia to name just one of many).
If this deal is not made I cant for the life of me see Shitfarce affording the “re-tooling” of the agreement that Finkie would want.
Everyone is talking about Dream… Dream has no money for this kind of deal. Fedor vs Barnett in Dream is – I dont think would FEG would bankroll this.
I only see 2 probable scenarios:
Either Shitfarce comes up with a ton of money and places themselves in a mountain of debt or Fedor signs with Zuffa.
here’s the thing. I like the UFC, and think they’re the best MMA org out there. I think Strikeforce is in trouble. M-1 sucks balls. I don’t know anything about the predictions you make, and don’t really care because I just like watching good fights. You come across as an asshole, not because of what you say, but how you say it.
And I hope you get paid by the word.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Mar 3, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
These events are coming up rather fast, they need to get away from musical chairs and TBA opponents and just book the fights. If Fedor screws Werdum out of this title fight then Werdum can get the next shot but Strikeforce has to book fights and advertise events now not wait on M-1 to stop jerking them around. Besides you know Werdum rather hold out for the chance to fight Fedor at this point.
Werdum beat _who_ to deserve a title shot?
It’s a joke that he was even going up against Fedor in the first place.
It doesn't matter
Fedor won’t take the initiative to fight Overeem.
So they’re doing the next best thing.
I don’t blame them, and I’m happy with it, honestly.
Duck Dodgers!
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 2, 2010 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I sheepishly rec'd this.
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
Ha this reminded me of Daffy Ducks The Marvin Missions on SNES. That game rocked.
I'm gonna make a bold prediction here and say Cain "pillowhands" (as some of you have called him) lol Velasquez catches Nog right on the chin and finishes via strikes on the ground. Nog looked good against an old Randy. It didn't show me much. We’ll see.
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 2, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
I JUST COMPLAINED THAT THEY DID NON-TITLE FIGHTS FOR CHAMPS TWO STORIES AGO
AND AM GOING TO YELL ABOUT A GUY GETTING A TITLE SHOT OFF A LOSS NOW! GAH!
LOUD NOISES!
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 8:04 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Some people are so hard to please
“Overeem is so overrated. Until he’s comes to America and fights a top opponent the Strikeforce HW title is a joke!”
Strikeforce announces that Overeem and Rogers will fight in St. Louis.
“Terrible. How can Overeem not defend the title? Unless the champions defends the HW title is a joke!”
Overeem and Rogers will be fighting for the HW Title.
“Atrocious. Rogers lost his last fight. How can he be fighting for the title. Unless Overeem fights a top opponent, in the US, who won his last fight, then the title is a joke.”
by John Nash on Mar 2, 2010 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So this isn't a joke that someone who was recently KOd
is fighting for a title?
twitter.com/thisredengine
It’s less of a joke than when Randy got a title shot at HW after getting KO’d at LHW.
by MrJobro on Mar 2, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
^ This. Actually mentioned it else where, but Most seem to forget that it ever happened. Also as Mentioned, M1 has already said its on with Werdum in May, and I can see Coker waiting abit to officially announce it and what ever other fights are on for May. Im thinking Shammy will be back for that card and probably Cyborg vs Toughill for 2more title fights, and perhaps even see Diaz throw down again, he wasnt to beat up after his last and Shammy has been talking about fighting, So Shamrock vs Miltech, heard it hear 1st :P
How do you Know where Im at? If you dont Know where Ive been...Understand where Im coming from??
the difference...
is that randy won the title.
bret rodgers is going to get crushed.
"Live fast, die."
are you comparing Randy to Brett Rogers?
Also, at the very least it was a different weight class….
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I’m not sure why you’re trying so hard to defend StrikeForce here? They’ve put themselves in this nonsensical situation by giving Uber-reem the title in the first place, and then not stripping it from him since he’s too busy getting his ass kicked by Badr Hari in Japan.
It’s complete nonsense that a guy coming off a loss, in the same division I might add, is fighting for the title. I mean, this comes down to how much you really do value being called ‘world champion’. Pro ‘rasslin’, for example. Yes, we all know it’s completely scripted and fake and blah-blah-blah.. but that doesn’t make people stop caring about who’s the title-holder, because Vince McMahon does a great job of making people care about the strap. If an organization like StrikeForce can’t get people to care about a legit heavyweight (read: cash-cow) division title, then what’s the point, really?
I've been kicking around the idea of a tattoo that says "I Love _______"
That way, I can write in ‘lamp’ with a sharpie. If I’m dating somebody, they write in their own name. Your mother can write in… well… ‘your mother.’ And if I pass out drunk, my friends will write ‘cock’ but at least I know where it will be.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Cut the skin & rub in the ink.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 2, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
All you need
is alternating current, some ink, a sharp piece of metal, and a willingness to get hep C
"The ball always seems to find Ed Reed...The man is a menace"
by UMBC Oriole fan on Mar 2, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Somebody get me a rimshot stat!
"That's right I'm into hardcore crack, that's why my teeth are so bad"
http://www.instantrimshot.com/
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 2, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At this point I think we should all be happy that Strikeforce is even having the show, instead of getting bent out of shape over a title that Overeem won off Paul Buentello in 2007. I mean who do you have to beat to be worthy of fighting for that belt? (for Buentello it was, Tank Abbott, Ruben Villareal and Carter Williams, for Overeem it was Michael Knaap and losing to Sergei Kharitonov). This fight is exceeds what came before it by a very long margin, besides it is starting to look like Fedor may never fight for it anyway so why not Brett Rogers?
by who me on Mar 2, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm mocking the fans, not the situation.
I’m pretty happy with this fight, just wish we got it a year ago. It won’t tell us who the best in the world is, but it’s gonna be a good one.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I am mocking the fans too, the point was that this is best heavyweight title fight Strikeforce has ever offered by such a drastic margin that bitching about any challenger is just plain pathetic. This fight doesn’t take away any legitimacy from the Strikeforce belt, hell the belt will be more legitimate due to this fight actually happening. Yes Rogers but good grief who doesn’t? He’s still darn near as good as it gets for Strikeforce at the moment and he is definitely a huge step up from the past that led to the belt being formed to start with.
It won’t matter. Overeem will dust Rogers in the 2nd. His clinch will destroy Rogers. Overeem is way too fast for this guy.
On Y2K Alex Jones was on the radio yelling that Russian was nuking the USA.
Now is this an indictment of Alex Jones, or an indictment of Jones' fans.
It seems as though people love being lied to & having their money stolen from them.
Viva L' America
Now...This fight could happen
if Alistair didnt get too greedy and cycled properly…
Easy
Here’s their spin:
Brett Rogers was promised a title shot last June. Overeem bailed and they promised Rogers a shot if he beat Arlovski. He did. Overeem took off the rest of the year and Rogers stepped up to the plate when they needed an opponent take on the “Baddest Man on the Planet”. Strikeforce is not holding a loss to Fedor against and giving him the title shot they promised. Some might even say they’re being noble in honoring their commitments,
That’s how you spin.
by John Nash on Mar 2, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 13 recs
A guy getting his promised title shot?
Dana White disapproves of this blatant miscarriage of justice.
http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money
by Tim Burke on Mar 2, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
after a loss no less...
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Like a million people have said, a loss against Fedor is different
He’s the best in the world (supposedly).
Besides, Overeem would lose to any of the top 5 HW in the UFC and will most likely lose to Rogers as well.
I think it’s an interesting fight. Rogers actually looked pretty tough against Fedor (before he got ko’d). Now we get to see how tough Overeem is.
I'm just a dude who's trying to put it together.
I think overeem runs through him..
He had trouble dealing with a faster guy in Badr, but Rogers on the other hand is slow as molasses compared to that.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 2, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
maybe not “run through him”. I think Fedor has a better chin than overeem, and fedor got rocked by rogers.
I'm just a dude who's trying to put it together.
No he didn't
What the hell is up with people and their recollectoin of this fight, Fedor was the one that rocked Rogers, Rogers opened a cut on Fedor’s nose.
"That's right I'm into hardcore crack, that's why my teeth are so bad"
Fedor cut’s like paper..
Rogers cut his nose, cage pressed him, and did some GnP. People act like Rogers was dominating this fight…
Uh, that’s not what I was going for. The nose cut occured less than a weak before the fight. Sure, Fedor might have scar tissue around his eyes and open up easily, but the cut from the Rogers fight wasn’t the same thing.
http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money
cmon now
you guys are talking like this fight is a joke. What if overeem goes out there and rolls rogers like a spliff. That will say something huge about fedor. In fact, what ever happens in this fight, will say something huge about fedor’s chances at being the strikeforce champion.
If Fedor (M1) is gonna hold out like a chicken shit, then this is the next best thing. Personally, I like the tact of making megareem take a blood test first.
I'm just a dude who's trying to put it together.
Totally agree here Anton. Rogers is too slow for those quick eight arms of Overeem, & those knees breaks hearts.
On Y2K Alex Jones was on the radio yelling that Russian was nuking the USA.
Now is this an indictment of Alex Jones, or an indictment of Jones' fans.
It seems as though people love being lied to & having their money stolen from them.
Viva L' America
hey hey
Interesting how Fedor is making Ubereem beat Rogers to fight him. I guess Fedor thinks the WAMMA belt is a bigger deal than the Strikeforce belt. Speaking of which, will Aoki have his lightweight WAMMA belt on the line against Melendez?
Speaking of which, will Aoki have his lightweight WAMMA belt on the line against Melendez?
Only if the WBO, WBA, WBC, IBF, ABC, EFG, and XYZ belts are also on the line.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
does he even know he's the WAMMA champ? ;)
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 2, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Yes, getting a homeless person to craft and present your championship belt does have its draw-backs.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Mar 2, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Awesome!!
Now hopefully Fedor fights the #2 HW in the world Barnett at DREAM.
Sarcasm I hope.
#2? Really
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Mar 2, 2010 8:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Everyone Fedor fights is the #2, didn’t you get the memo?
by yukkurishiteittene on Mar 2, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yea #2...
Barnett was the last one to beat Big Nog when Nog was relevant. Barnett has been winning BJJ and grappling tournaments. Barnett is very easily the best wrestler in MMA. Sure he tested positive for steroids but so did Belfort, Marquardt, Royce, Sylvia and plenty of other fighters.
Barnett has been winning BJJ and grappling tournaments
Against 170lb purple belts
Barnett is very easily the best wrestler in MMA
Ummmmm…
Sure he tested positive for steroids but so did Belfort, Marquardt, Royce, Sylvia and plenty of other fighters.
Not 3x and remaining unrepentant.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
No...
Barnett won that 215+ BJJ tournament last year.
You can’t seriously think there’s a wrestler as good as Barnett in MMA.
So you think that fighters like Belfort, Marquardt, Royce, Sylvia etc… only took steroids that one time they got caught and that’s it? Obviously they have done it a few times just never got caught. There’s obviously ways to pass those tests but sometimes fighters just get caught slippin.
Just like King Mo whose a NCAA champion said himself “The thing is, NCAA champions come a dime a dozen. To me NCAA champion is a joke.” Barnett’s submission wrestling skills are second to none. While all these Lesnars and Sonnens lnp for 3 or 5 rounds and win decisions Barnett can easily do that as well as plenty of submissions.
Just like the time he masterfully and effortlessly subbed Gilbert Yvel in the first 2 minutes?
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
by Ubernoober on Mar 2, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well I was more or less talkin about the time he out grappling a prime Big Nog. But he definitely put a beating on Yvel.
The Yvel fight was an embarassment.
by ufc4 on Mar 2, 2010 8:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Still he kicked the living shit out of Yvel. It wasn’t as if he was even close to losing that fight. First round was 10-8, second 10-9, third Yvel tapped.
I'm trying to figure out if you're serious or a troll...
Mentioning King Mo after claiming Barnett is the best wrestler in MMA leads me to assume “troll.”
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
What the hell is a troll?
Well your boy Ubernoober seems to think King Mo is a better wrestler than Barnett…
A troll is someone who wanders through and disrupts communities by saying controversial things. They feed on negative energy.
Time to stop feeding the troll, folks.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
You seem to think that King Mo is a better wrestler
This comment made me giggle.
twitter.com/thisredengine
lol
Who the hell decided to make up something as stupid as that.
I’m just here stating the facts…
Maybe you mean grappler. Because Joe Warren is a better wrestler. Josh Koscheck is a better wrestler. Matt Lindland is a better wrestler.
You’d still be wrong, but would sound less ridiculous.
twitter.com/thisredengine
It's catch wrestling
Again, he’s not the best pure grappler even in the HW division. That would be Werdum or Roger Gracie or Mir. He’s the best catch wrestler with pro wrestling tendencies. But the best pro wrestler in MMA is still Minowa.
twitter.com/thisredengine
lol at Mir
The same Mir that got easily out grappled and toyed with by a young Big Country. The same Mir that was scared out of his mind to try and grapple with Big Nog. Now i just can’t take you seriously at all.
Ok guy
the fact that you bring up the big country bout kindaaaaaa tells me a lot.
Won’t feed the troll anymore.
twitter.com/thisredengine
Well Big Country easily out grapples Mir. Mir’s grappling is a joke. Mir got his black belt just because he broke Sylvia’s arm. Sylvia has no grappling skills and Sylvia didn’t tap and wanted to continue the fight with 1 arm and he’d still easily beat Mir. Whoever gave Mir a black belt for breaking Sylvia’s arm should get his black belt taken away.
Wrestlers as good or better than Barnett in MMA:
Brock
Cain
Carwin
Randy
King Mo
Rashad
Rampage
Machida
Hendo
Chuck
Jones
Chael
Shields
Lawler
Okami
GSP
Fitch
Kos
Hughes
BJ
Maynard
Edgar
Diego
Sherk
Benson Henderson
Griffin
Brown
Aldo
….
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
He's the best catch wrestler.
That’s… about as far as I’ll go. And I’m a pretty big Barnett apologist.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think you can really distinguish between BJJ and catch wrestling anymore. They’ve cross pollinated to the point that they’re incestous.
I was referring to the "wrestler" part, not the "grappler" part.
I think he’ll out-grapple nearly everyone in MMA. Barnett would crush Mir on the mat. Lesnar’s strength and Fedor’s slippery tenacity are the two speed bumps, and I’m not totally sold on either of those beating him.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 2, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
Catch wrestling isn't anything but a name, Barnett's grappling coach is a BJJ blackbelt.
Grappling on the ground is BJJ, period. Even when they’re wrestlers, even when they’re judoka, modern groundwork is BJJ.
Also there never were submissions in catch-as-catch-can, just very few rules about what holds can be taken standing and what turnovers can be used (read: painful ones).
Thanks uber...
I just got back from Miletich gym for the first time in 6 months. I’m too gassed to put up a good arguement. But him saying Barnett. Is the best wrestler is laughable.
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Mar 2, 2010 8:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
fedor is #2 imo
sweet, fedor vs fedor
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Mar 3, 2010 2:59 AM EST up reply actions
This was finkleshits idea...
looks like the Fink is calling the shots now with Coker…
Time to fire Fedor/M-1. Fedor getting cut from Strikeforce would be glorious.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
by Ubernoober on Mar 2, 2010 8:11 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Fedor, you and your stupid fucking management team piss me off. Y’all are fucking fired.
-Coker getting his manhood back.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
I actually read that in Dana’s voice.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 2, 2010 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Fedor/M1 needs to be humbled.
Can them. Some fans wouldn’t hold it against Strikeforce if they did.
by snakecharmer1340 on Mar 2, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
wait, I'm confused
- A possible fourth title fight added to the CBS [May 15th] card between Brett Rogers and Alistair Overeem (also confirmed by Alistair Overeem, comment available in podcast).
Is that supposed to be on April?
I don’t think the people in charge have a clear idea of what is going on.
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
Why does it say “CBS [May 15th] card”?
by ufc4 on Mar 2, 2010 8:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Really hope its on CBS as well.
I'm gonna make a bold prediction here and say Cain "pillowhands" (as some of you have called him) lol Velasquez catches Nog right on the chin and finishes via strikes on the ground. Nog looked good against an old Randy. It didn't show me much. We’ll see.
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 2, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking that,
but they shouldn’t have wrote is as a fourth title fight in CBS May.
PS
I thought you wrote titties. haha. :)
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 2, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Schoonover??
Meow? Meow?? Meow! ohhhhhh.... Meow =)
It doesn’t make much sense to give Rogers to organizational title shot considering he just got KTFO by Fedor, but Fedor defended the non-organizational WAMMA title against Brett already. WAMMA title > Strikeforce title. After Overeem beats Rogers, and Fedor fights Barnett in DREAM (hopefully) then we can see Fedor defend his WAMMA title against Overeem and Overeem defend his SF title against Fedor.
"I don’t know what’s been going on with [Overeem], he’s kinda been hesitatin’ on everybody. He’s always complainin’ about something ain’t right, his hand is hurtin’ and things like that. If I was anybody I would try to go in deep on why his hand is hurtin’ and why everything else is hurtin’ because maybe it might not just be hurt, it could be something else. I don’t know, I ain’t the one to say or start nothin’ but he’s definitely gonna have to give up that belt here real, real soon because I’m in it to win it, I want that belt. If you’re a title holder, I’m sorry man but you should be fighting at least a couple of times a year. No excuses. If you can’t get the job done then give it up."
Rogers also went on to say that he feels Overeem is ducking a fight with him. As we all know their fights have been rumored a few times only to fall through at the last minute.
"One, I say he’s ducking me. He knows I’m gonna get him. I could care less who he is. Two, I don’t think he can fight in the states right now. I don’t think you can get that big in such a small amount of time. I don’t know, who knows." Brett Rogers
http://urdirt.com/2009/09/30/brett-rogers-tells-alistair-overeem-to-defend-his-belt-of-vacate-it/
More Smack Talk Against Overeem...
“I don’t think Overeem was ever planning on fighting Brett,” Reilly said. “I think Overeem is afraid of Brett. He’s afraid of a big striker who is going to knock him out. … I don’t think anyone is going to admit that, but I’m not going to shy away from it. He’s had two opportunities to fight Brett but he hasn’t taken either of [them]. … if I was Overeem, I would avoid Brett too. It’s a horrible f***ing fight for Overeem.”
http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/07/06/rogers-manager-overeem-is-afraid/
I remember those haha
pretty old interviews.
by Anton Tabuena on Mar 2, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Boon fires back at Rogers...
"Does Brett Rogers think this help’s him? Alistair trains everyday with punchers like Errol Zimmerman, Gokhan Saki, Karaev, Sergei Kharitonov, and Semmy Schilt. He knocked out one of the best strikers in the world in Badr Hari in the first round under Hari’s rules (K-1). He fought three rounds against three time K-1 World Champion Remy Bojasky and would have won that fight had they counted the second round knock down. What exactly does Brett Rogers have on his record?"
"I understand that Brett is frustrated that Alistair is injured, but that is a brainless comment".
Overeem on Figthing Rogers on May 15th..
“I’m looking forward to smack his face and his loud mouth. I’m really happy that Strikeforce came with this fight so now we can settle things once and for all.”
http://www.lowkick.com/Strikeforce/Rogers-Vs-Overeem-Is-ON-6805
What if Rogers is fighting for the title because that’s what was next until fedor was dropped in strikeforces lap, now that he/m1 is holding out they’re going back to what they had planned without fedor, almost snubbing them?
by disputedchamp on Mar 2, 2010 8:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Its very easy to solve the problems of strikeforce. Just admit that they forgot that Overeem relinquished the belt after he didnt fight for two years and fedor/rodgers was in fact for the interim strikeforce title.
I hate how the Strikefore clusterfuck is making me upset about otherwise-awesome fights.
Seriously, Overeem/Rogers is going to be brutal for the loser (and probably winner, too), but because of all their shenanigans, it’s tainted with the stench of incompetency, what-could-have-beens, etc. Though as low as expectations are for SF, it’ll be easy to impress us with whatever the final product is. That’s arguably the silver lining here.
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 2, 2010 8:26 PM EST reply actions
Brett Rogers takes on some tough fekin fights!
Time to load up the Brett Rogers war wagon!!!
Keep firing Assholes!
Blackout is always right
by Ubernoober on Mar 2, 2010 8:31 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Is it sponsored by Sam's Club?
Walking the line between intelligence and ignorance since 1985
@deowade
Damn right he did....
I know he’s the dog again here, but would love to see Rog KO Overeem…
by Koob on Mar 2, 2010 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just saw this on Sherdog's P&M boards:
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 2, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 14 recs
Brett Rogers is the future star at heavyweight for Strikeforce, he’s got more charisma than Werdum, Bigfoot and Fedor all combined, he’s an all American success story and he’s a monster in the cage. The dude may still be a prospect but he’s got superstar written all over him and with a couple of good wins he could be Strikeforce’s top draw. He may not be the best heavyweight in the company currently but he definitely is the best prospect to build a future around. The guy has tons of upside potential.
I agree that he has upside potential, but the potential to be the top draw in the company seems extremely far-fetched to me.
http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money
Yeah
I really don’t see country ass Rogers being the face of the promotion.
"That's right I'm into hardcore crack, that's why my teeth are so bad"
Shit he’s the common man’s American Dream, from changing tires to fighting for world title belts in just a couple of years. All Strikeforce’s current top draws are getting long in the tooth except for Rogers and Nick Diaz and Gina Carano. If Rogers can go on a tear in the Strikeforce heavyweight division then he’s going to be the guy that CBS is going to get behind.
Who else does Strikeforce have to be the top heavyweight draw? Particularly if Fedor is on the outs with Strikeforce? Bobby Lashley? Werdum? Bigfoot Silva? Glass Chin Arlovski? If he can beat Overeem then he will be the man in the division as far as casual fans of Strikeforce go and that is what builds drawing power.
Casual fans have no idea who Overeem is. The win will mean very little to them. To us (hardcores), it’ll be big, but that’s it.
And you said Strikeforce’s top draw, top heavyweight draw.
http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money
Yes but if Rogers beats him (particularly if it’s on CBS) it’s a big big deal to casual fans who are still new to Strikeforce(they may not know who Overeem is but they also don’t know that the belt is a joke that has been sitting in his closet for two years like us hardcore fans do).
Who was the other huge star for CBS MMA? Kimbo Slice. And who does Brett Rogers remind casual fans of? Only Rogers can actually fight. The dude has all American appeal and he is very palatable to CBS. Lets face it CBS isn’t going to get behind Nick Diaz, who knows if Fedor is going to still be in Strikeforce(especially long term), Cung Le is old, Dan Henderson is old, Frank Shamrock is old and broken, Jake Shields is tv ratings kryptonite.
If your looking at the next big thing in Strikeforce as far as being a future draw it’s Gina Carano, King Mo, “Mayhem” Miller and Brett Rogers. It’s not that big of a stretch that if Rogers goes on a tear on CBS that he can start drawing like crazy.
I don’t think Rogers shares ANY qualities with Kimbo, other than being black. That’s certainly not enough there to be marketable. There’s no curiosity factor involved in the Sam’s Club story.
I agree with your other 3 choices (Carano, Mayhem, Mo), but I don’t think Rogers has 10% of the personal charisma any of those fighters do. He lit up AA already, and it didn’t make him a star. I just don’t see it.
http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money
Yea, but Rogers and Kimbo are both so explosive and athletic.
by Super Dingus on Mar 2, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Vadim spelled this out...
“We do not fight for the Strikeforce Heavyweight Title. Strikeforce are our partner, and any titles whether it is UFC, Strikeforce, WAMMA, Dream… they are just medals. Fedor is above these things. We are interested in the level of our opponent and his popularity among the audience.”
From a fan perspective the april card is solid… and it’s free. But from a business perspective having 3 title fights and this line up on CBS simply doesnt cut it. They should have placed this on showtime and come back to CBS another time if things get sorted out.
Trying to save face and not show weakness is going to back fire big time. No Hershal Walker means this card is gonna tank.
The May card (if Fedor actually shows) would do MUCH better on CBS than the April card, don’t understand why theyre running with this lineup.
It’s posturing… Shitfarce wants to show that they dont need Fedor, and M1 thinks they do.
Unfortunately they’re gonna find out that they do need him. Even with Walker the target demo’s would have been negatively affected. Without Hershal their overall ratings which were dismal to begin with will also take a hit.
This card wont do that much better than Elite’s second show (which a UFC replay beat in the target demos) and worse it can potentially hurt retention because 3 five minute fights with this type of matchmaking isnt attractive for the new fan. Even if the fights turn out great for new eyeballs then you could have alot of dead time inbetween matches… 3 title fights makes absolutely no sense.
7 months between CBS shows is bad enough but then you only showcase 3 fights?
It’s incompetence that’s killing shitfarce because they are way ahead of schedule in dying.
Who’s between Le & BJM?
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 2, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
The third man form the Coker/Conseco lunch?
New Orleans Saints - 2010 Super Bowl Champions. Unbelievable. Who Dat.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Mar 2, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
ONLY IN STRIKEFORCE...
" i feel like i’m taking crazy pillz here "
"If I told you I was good, you would think I am boasting. If I told you I was not good, you would know I am lying" Bruce Lee
Well played, Strikeforce, well played.
Looks like Coker is serious about playing chicken with M1.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
It’s bizarre we have to remind people of these things..
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
Not surprising in this case. Go look at a few of this guy’s posts. He won’t last the night here.
http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money
Yeah
Pretty unlikely.
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
I don’t remember mentioning relevancy. I was correcting your factual error.
http://www.twitter.com/TB_Money
by Tim Burke on Mar 2, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Right
Because that was the point you were making. LOL!!!!!!!
Blackout612- "Wuts teh UFC?"
Ubernoober- "It like two guy who just stand and swing for fence and try to knock each other shit out it awesome"
it is exactly my point. herring was nowheer near title contention, hence my exclusion. Mir was, and brock lost to him
by jackrussell on Mar 3, 2010 3:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Everyone happy now? lol
I'm gonna make a bold prediction here and say Cain "pillowhands" (as some of you have called him) lol Velasquez catches Nog right on the chin and finishes via strikes on the ground. Nog looked good against an old Randy. It didn't show me much. We’ll see.
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
BTW
Theres a crazy amount of hate going on here by the same know-it-all posters. lol And some of you guys talk about Sherdog. =P
I'm gonna make a bold prediction here and say Cain "pillowhands" (as some of you have called him) lol Velasquez catches Nog right on the chin and finishes via strikes on the ground. Nog looked good against an old Randy. It didn't show me much. We’ll see.
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 2, 2010 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, I have been noticing the hate a lot lately.
"For your information, I would like to ask a question."
-Samuel Goldwyn
LEAVE STRIKEFORCE ALONE!
=P
I'm gonna make a bold prediction here and say Cain "pillowhands" (as some of you have called him) lol Velasquez catches Nog right on the chin and finishes via strikes on the ground. Nog looked good against an old Randy. It didn't show me much. We’ll see.
by xFenixKnightx on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
by xFenixKnightx on Mar 2, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
i remember when you'd get warned for sayin the F bomb
ive seen “c*nt” and some other pretty strong words and nothing going down
i don’t mind curses, but we don’t really need to call people “c*nt’s” just because we don’t like em
crude photoshop’s and gif’s aside, there’s nothing wrong with putting a point across diplomatically
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Mar 3, 2010 3:06 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno about this one. It’s really difficult to call. But Rogers showed he could use his strength well against Fedor. He’s got a long reach, too.
I think you can tell a lot about a guy in a loss.
As for Rogers “being slow as molasses”, he has 9 KOs in 11 fights, including one against Andrei Arlovski, whos pretty light on his feet for a heavyweight.
I could see this one going either way. But I like Rogers here. It’ll be really interesting to see what the line are, but they’ll be close. I think probably Overeem at -160 and Rogers at +130 or something.
WoW
I have to say Rogers Vs. Overeem is going to be a good match up. Both like to slug it out so it’s going to be a exciting fight.
I bet you Overeem clinches with Rogers, drags him to the ground, and finishes him there. He’ll clinch with Rogers for sure. That’s where Overeem becomes Ubereem.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
I think this fight is going to tell alot about Rogers if he’s for real or not. Besides that this match is a joke but at least Overeem will be defending his belt which is something he hasn’t done before so there’s that.
The #8 heavyweight in the world fights the #9 heavyweight in the world and it’s a joke? …interesting
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
lol@ bringing up rankings, when theres absolutely NO reason
Overeeem should be top 10
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
lol @ your inability to grasp simple concepts such as “the MMA community at large considers these men to be toward the top end of the division”
Even if it were the #12 against the #13 heavyweights that wouldn’t make it a joke.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
I''m sorry Brent...
but just because fighters outside of the UFC have to do less to be considered “toward the top of the division” doesn’t it make it so, and no matter how many skewed opinions put Overeem in the top WATEVER, he hasn’t performed up to those standards in any way.
The fact that this is for their title becomes a joke when Overeem hasn’t fought stateside in years, and now after all the talk of Overeem vs. Fedor, is returning to defend his title agaisnt a guy Fedor just beat.
Is it a bad fight? Nope… Is it a joke of a championship? imo, yea. Even if this is the best that they can do, it does nothing accept postpone the only HW fight people are actually clamoring for outside of the UFC
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Because Cain Velasquez
earned his top 5 ranking pre-Nog by beating… who again?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Both Kongo and Rothwell were at one point considered top 10 by Sherdog. Those wins are better than wins over Fugita and random Japanese fighter.
twitter.com/thisredengine
I prefer to go by consensus rankings that Sherdog
who are pretty biased fanboys, and you can tell who they hate on. They never had Diego crack the top 10 at LW while Sherk coming off a loss to Edgar was #6-7 and Maynard was getting his hype train express to #5.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 3, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Point stands that
Kongo, and Rothwell (and now Nog) are more legitimate wins in MMA than anything Allistair has done lately… Carwin’s win over Gonzaga is more legit. JDS’s wins over Werdum, Struve, CroCop (actual win, not a no contest), and even Yvel are decent wins in HW MMA.
Am I saying that Overeem couldn’t beat any of these guys? Nope… but he hasn’t done much of anything significant in MMA to be in the top 10.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I'm ok with Cain being above Overeem in the rankings
now that he beat a top 5er in Nog. But to say that beating pretty hand picked style matchups in a rusty Rothwell (early stoppage, but a foregone conclusion) and short-notice Kongo (looking pretty bad doing it) are worthy of getting a guy into the top 10 is kinda silly.
Overeem hasn’t beated top competition. I won’t argue that. But if Cain’s [then] weak ass record got him where it did, I won’t be too upset that a guy with a longer history in MMA and a great K-1 ranking being a few spots lower.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Mar 3, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
K-1 shouldn’t affect affect the rankings because then you need to have Andre Galvao ranked at WW for his ADCC and Werdum needs to be because of winning ADCC.
I dunno, rankings are dumb. The real beef should be that a guy who lost is passing over Werdum for a title shot (even though you can argue that the title is pretty dead at this point anyways) and because of Fedor’s desire to never fight for the title, the UFC champ is the world champ.
twitter.com/thisredengine
Brent, can you quickly defend Overeem in the top 10 without using his K-1 fights as justification? Not trying to flame, just that if we are taking K-1 into account then you also need to use ADCC/Grapplers Quest as well.
twitter.com/thisredengine
Sure...
first of all these aren’t my rankings to defend (honestly my personal rankings have him at #10).
- His last loss was in September of 2007. In that time he has gone 7-0 (1 NC) with the NC being a fight against Cro Cop that he was clearly winning. Now yes, quality of competition is an issue, but he’s keeping a busy schedule and winning which is important. Let’s look at the guys around him.
- #10 Werdum has a case to be ranked higher but it’s tenuous at best. His win over Overeem was long ago enough that we shouldn’t place too much weight on it in a current view of the division. Werdum also hasn’t had a winning streak of more than 2 fights since August of 2005.
- #11 Arlovski has lost 2 straight.
- #12 Barnett has been out of competition too long and it’s hard to place him anywhere given that we KNOW he is on steroids as he has tested positive three times.
- #13 Gonzaga, in the same time period that Overeem has been on his winning streak, has picked up a few losses…and his wins have been over McCully, Hendricks, and Tuchscherer. Not a strong enough resume to overtake Overeem’s last few years.
- #14 Couture, not a heavyweight anymore
- #15 Mercer, just…no.
- #16 Aleksander Emelianenko hasn’t fought in almost a year among other reasons.
- #17 Antonio Silva lost his last fight to a guy ranked below Overeem
- #18 Pedro Rizzo lost 2 of his last 3
- #19 King Mo isn’t a heavyweight
- #20 Cro Cop was losing to Overeem and has lost several fights lately
I think that’s going far enough down the rankings. What am I missing? Who should be ranked above him?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks Brent
I didn’t mean to come off as harsh but a lot of the defense for ranking him in the top 10 is due to his K-1 resume, which is impressive. But as I said, if you take K-1 into account then you’d also need to take ADCC/Grappling tournaments as well.
twitter.com/thisredengine
by Matthew Roth on Mar 3, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
I agree. I don’t take K-1 or grappling into account when ranking,
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Mar 3, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Remember when there was a big discussion around here about whether Strikeforce should have just stripped Overeem of the title?
This whole brouhaha is, to me, more indication that they should have. It’s not like there’s a really big difference, promotion-wise, between current champion and former champion freshly returned from becoming an international kicboxing superstar. And then you don’t have to have a champion in a non-title fight or a title shot going to someone coming off of a loss.
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